D3, waddya reckon?

[JPI]

The new D3 has been attracting loads of accolades since its launch, but in the UK there's been a lot of stories about serious reliability issues. Is anyone aware of problems with Australian delivered D3's? I am torn between a D3 SE TDv6 (heart) vs a Toyota Landcruiser Sahara (head). Both are about the same price, but onroad the D3 seems far superior. Problem is what happens when I'm on a remote track out west with the 3 kids and something dies? The Toyota, whilst a bit primitive now, is at least reliable. Does anyone have any comments to make that might help me to make the best decision? :roll:

[Steinzy]

First of all JPI welcome to the site.

Now to answer your question the D3 is by far the better vehicle - go and take one for a test drive.

one of the guys in our club (Stevo68) has one and as a standard vehicle its more capable than anything else that I've seen.

now from the relability end of things I think that you will find that the old days of Land Rovers being unreliable has long gone and the D3 would be equal to if not better than the Sahara, simply because it's a smarter car with no expense spared.

IMHO :wink:

[drivesafe]

Hi JPI, welcome to the site and besides the fact that my wife has a D3 so I’m a bit one eyed, try reading not only post on this site but do a search on toyotas and you will very quickly see that although, up to a few years ago, where toyota reliability was unquestionable, this is by far no longer the case.

You are now far more likely to get stranded if you have a new toy as compered to ANY OTHER 4x4. Engines and front diffs seem to be a big problem with toyotas at present.

One more point, also check warranty problems relating to toyotas. There have been some horror stores about the problems people are having when trying to get major part failures fixed under warranty through toyota dealers but being honest this may be down to specific dealers rather than toyota in general.

While on the point of warranties, it seams toyota’s warranty for their off road vehicles pretty well precludes any vehicle that is taken off road. GO FIGURE.

As I posted, i am one eyed but the above info is showing up on other web sites as well, so do some searching.

[noddy]

Welcome JPI

Depending on whether you are buying new or second hand, you will still have a warranty as insurance. From experiences, it seems LRA are much better to deal with than Toyota when it comes to any warranty claims. The advantage Toyo have over LR with remote travel is their dealer network, as compared with LRA's ever shrinking network :evil:

As has been discussed, the LC100 is not as strong as people think. The IFS control arm issue and front diffs have demonstrated that. There are also many disgruntled Prado and Sahara owners having problems with their rear air suspensions.

Differentiate between 'reliability' and 'build quality'. Japs are best in terms of build quality, although BMW and Ford have made vast inroads on build quality (except for Defender :wink: ). Reliability, LRA is still struggling with past perceptions.

How long do you plan on keeping the vehicle?

From my perspective, I think the decision is pretty easy. D3 is unanimously seen as the most capable 4x4. LC100 is old technology which Toyo believes they can charge a premium for (there are many well-heeled 'sheep' out there!).

[PCH]

Hello JPI

Yes I have a D3 and had it almost 1 year now. I'm not one eyed but I think the D3 is the best 4WD on the market at the moment. I've had many brands of vehicles in the past so brand loyalty isn't a No. 1 priority. I look for what is the best at the time.

Mechaniacally the D3 is strong - you don't see many posts on mechanical failure. Most of what people have had problems with are related to poor electrical connections and faulty compressors. The odd software problem was mixed in with early models. These have been rectified and product improvement will always continue

The forums you read usually list problems and the readers are asking for advice or are trying to confirm if someone else has had the same problem. The dedicated forums for the D3 like Disco3.co.uk also include many great stories and people's positive experiences with their purchase.

Although I don't do outback travel (mainly no time) I do a reasonable amount of 4WDing and the D3 has never let me down once on any of my trips. My problems (electrical) have surfaces around town and were never show stoppers in any way.

Chris

[stevo68]

Hi John......again :wink: ,

Obviously you know of this website, I have responded to your email, if you want to know anything else please ask. As you can see the other D3 owners of which I have been out with Drivesafe ( member GCLRO) are happy with their choice. If you pm me with your email address i can send you some live vid of both vehicles in action. Maybe that will help to whet your appetite https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ ,

Regards

Stevo

P.S. in the gallery for GCLRO you will find an album of my D3 at work and play https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ and a thread for it in here

[Farnarkle]

Welcome JPI

Thanks for kicking this thread off https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ This thread has boosted my confidence again - I'm about to place an order for a D3 hse tdv6 in the near future ( setllement on the house is in 34 days time https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ ) Elsewhere in here are some scary threads on Dealers and LR service. It scared me a bit as this will be the first new vehicle I've bought in about 25 years. Boils down to just knowing who your dealing with I guess - but my confidence in the D3 itself is quite high after reading the threads here for a while.

[stevo68]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>This thread has boosted my confidence again - I'm about to place an order for a D3 hse tdv6 in the near future [/b][/quote] Dont want to sound like this is peer pressure :wink: , but do it Farnarkle, you wont regret it. Plus I will have someone to wave to if I pass you on my way to my sojourns to Brissie to pick up my bratskies from there mums place https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ .

Regards

Stevo

[stevo68]

http://www.aulro.com/modules.php'set_albumName=album292&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php For John and Farnarkle, here are some pics to help with your purchasing decisions,

Regards

Stevo

[stevo68]

http://www.aulro.com/modules.php'set_albumName=album292&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

Try again,

Regards

Stevo

[drivesafe]

Originally posted by Farnarkle
Elsewhere in here are some scary threads on Dealers and LR service. It scared me a bit as this will be the first new vehicle I've bought in about 25 years. Boils down to just knowing who your dealing with I guess.

I bought one of my Landies from Austral in Brisbane. Big mistake,

<span style="color:red">[size=24]BIG MISTAKE</span>

And Southside is owned by the same company that owns Austral.

Try Bruce Lyntons, not only have they given me exceptional service, they proving to be a very strong supporter of GCLRO Club here on the coast.


Cheers

[stevo68]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Try Bruce Lyntons, not only have they given me exceptional service, they proving to be a very strong supporter of GCLRO Club here on the coast.
[/b][/quote]

Ditto,

Regards

Stevo

[Farnarkle]

But, but, but Gold Coast is a long way to go to get my beastie serviced https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ I guess I'm stuck here in Bris with the ones here

[Steinzy]

Or you could move to the Gold Coast and then you could join our club :wink:

[P38ace]

Originally posted by Farnarkle
But, but, but Gold Coast is a long way to go to get my beastie serviced https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ I guess I'm stuck here in Bris with the ones here

And being a Brisbanite also, that's precisely why I've ruled out buying any new Land Rover model.

As much as I'd like a new D3 or RR, and I've seriously considered both, I'd rather do without than have to get warranty work done at the Brisbane Dealers.

There's absolutely no doubt the new cars are all very good and way ahead of the competition and if you just consider the vehicle itself you'll pick the LR every time.

Unfortunately I've been around LR long enough to know that dealer repairs will be necessary sooner or later, even more so in the new "Ford Rovers".

The steady depletion of the country LR dealer network as the vehicles become more hi-tech and urbanised does nothing for my faith in the brand. I need the peace of mind that parts and service are available from more than one dealer within a reasonable distance.

Further, without competition in the marketplace you can rest assured you will pay top dollar at the lone dealer every time, unless you have the time to search and travel elsewhere.

So in my opinion, if you have no shortage of cash and live next to a dealer that you are comfortable with and don't intend travelling far from, then the LR's fine.

Personally, I don't fit that description and therefore my next vehicle will be a decision of the head and not the heart.

JPI, there's no contest https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[drivesafe]

Well P38ace, I couldn’t disagree more.

My first LR, a series I disco, I got at Trivetts in Sydney but before I signed on the dotted line, I sent faxes for quotes to a number of dealers up and down the east coast and then took the best quote to Trivettes and they bettered it to get the sale.

My second LR, a series II, I got from Austral because they had the colour I wanted in stock and ready to go and I got my first 3 services done there.

By the time I got to the third service, I had found out what a pack of crooks they were and LRA after trying repeatedly to get Austral to do their job properly ( one of the many problems I struck while dealing with Austral ), LRA made arrangements to get the problems sorted out by Bruce Lyntons and even though they didn’t sell me the vehicle, they busted their butts trying to fix all the problems Austral had caused or ignored.

JPI, I had no problem driving up to Brisbane for my first few services and I think you might be able to make a day out of it ( in reverse ) to get the service the vehicle needs, if you buy it on the Gold Coast. What ever you decide on just don’t go near Austral.

Cheers

[Farnarkle]

Even though JPI kicked off this thread I thank you for your replies - I have noted your comments re Austral et al - the idea of making it a day trip to GC sounds reasonable if the mob is as good as you reckon :roll:

[Captain_Rightfoot]

There are a couple of things I think I can add to this. Firstly, while southside are owned by AP eagers like Austral, they are their own dealership run by people who have done a really good job. Despite it's position in the middle of nowhere it is the no 1 honda dealer in QLD. For what it's worth, they have exceeded my expectations when performing warranty work on our Defender.

Next to Lyntons. We bought our MINI there. They are a very good dealership, and being smaller individual customers count. Having said that, the only negative that I have with them is that if you have a reliable car and only have to pop down for scheduled servicing every two years then all is good.

However, if you do have some problems (and I hope you wouldn't with your LR) but if you do, I have found getting down there and back a drag. Firstly you have to wait a while for a courtesy car. The time I didn't and caught the train back... youch. Left work at 3:30 and got home at 8!

So the problem is it's 1 hour down, and hour of stuffing around... and 1 hour back... 3 hours. Then you have to do the same a week later and you've lost 6 hours. There is always a chance that the trip will be a diagnose and get the parts from UK too... 12 hours... Add this to the inconvenience factor of having to be there by 4/4:30 if you want them to drive the car and it's a big logistics operation for me https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

I would definately buy another MINI there if that happened. However I know that the new MINI's only need a visit every couple of years because they have them sorted out. If I had doubts about this... hmmm..

I will say that your best chance of getting big problems fixed is to get your dealer to really bat for you, and the best way of ensuring that happened is to get the one you bought it from to service it.

If I bought another LR I'd buy southside again. There is a forum member who works on the sales side there too (he is on holiday at them moment though). https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

EDIT:

I'm afraid to say I've seen horror stories with Toyota. If I was going to use it for serious off road then I wouldn't buy a toyota. They can be fragile and if you break something off road Toyota will wipe their hands of you. Read here if you like ... it will show you the difference (groan) between how Toyota and LR look at warranty claims.

http://www.aulro.com/modules.php?name=Foru...highlight=prado (http://www.aulro.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=6626&highlight=prado)

[Farnarkle]

Went to the other forum - ack- people are certainly objective https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ didnt realise what a terrible decision I'm making according to that forum I should immediately wiz out and get a Patrol, or a Landcruiser. Landrovers dont get a look in. I'm just glad I found this forum before I found that other one.

Still a bit scared about the dealers though. I guess I will make that decision in a few weeks - not lookin forward to it though

[Disco300Tdi]

Originally posted by P38ace+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(P38ace)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Farnarkle
But, but, but Gold Coast is a long way to go to get my beastie serviced https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ I guess I'm stuck here in Bris with the ones here

And being a Brisbanite also, that's precisely why I've ruled out buying any new Land Rover model.

As much as I'd like a new D3 or RR, and I've seriously considered both, I'd rather do without than have to get warranty work done at the Brisbane Dealers.

There's absolutely no doubt the new cars are all very good and way ahead of the competition and if you just consider the vehicle itself you'll pick the LR every time.

<u>Unfortunately I've been around LR long enough to know that dealer repairs will be necessary sooner or later, even more so in the new "Ford Rovers"</u>. 8O 8O
The steady depletion of the country LR dealer network as the vehicles become more hi-tech and urbanised does nothing for my faith in the brand. I need the peace of mind that parts and service are available from more than one dealer within a reasonable distance.

Further, without competition in the marketplace you can rest assured you will pay top dollar at the lone dealer every time, unless you have the time to search and travel elsewhere.

So in my opinion, if you have no shortage of cash and live next to a dealer that you are comfortable with and don't intend travelling far from, then the LR's fine.

Personally, I don't fit that description and therefore my next vehicle will be a decision of the head and not the heart. 8O
JPI, there's no contest https://www.aulro.com/afvb/[/b][/quote]


And what major problems have there been in the D3 since Ford have taken control :?: :?: please tell

I think your opinion is possibly centered around that GM Commodore in your driveway with the "Peter Perfect" poster on the garage wall

[P38ace]

I'm a LR fan, but I'm also a Toyota fan, that may make me a little unusual but I can see the merits of both having been there and done that.

I speak from experience having owned four new LR and six new Toyota 4WD's since 1988. I currently have one of each. I have always rigorously serviced and repaired my own vehicles and they are regularly used off road for work, not for play.

Without exception each LR has needed numerous & frequent visits to the dealer for warranty repairs. This was a complete pain as the necessary parts were never in stock. By the time the parts arrived for fitment, new problems would have cropped up; also requiring parts to be ordered.

Conversely none of the Toyota's have ever required a single warranty repair. For me this means zero visits to the dealer after delivery. I don't need any more evidence than that as to which is the better vehicle.

However I'm a Land Rover fan, because they are so good to drive, and have tried hard to believe the PR story each time a new model is released. This time it's right they keep saying.

Sorry but history says that's unlikely. Even BMW gave up.

I've no first hand experience of the D3 so can't knock it although many have. That's not the issue. The issue is historically problematic vehicles being tied to an ever shrinking dealer network. It was never very good but it's worse now.

It's a fact that LR have replaced many new D3's for irate customers, even in the UK where there are no 'lemon laws' like the US. You don't have to search very hard for tales of woe.

I'm sure most here will have read this site by now; http://landrover.haveyoursay.com/2005/06/w...m_i_terror.html (http://landrover.haveyoursay.com/2005/06/why_am_i_terror.html)

There are plenty of others; try http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=10

Once bitten, twice shy is the proverb. I've been bitten more than once and it ain't going to happen again.



Originally posted by Farnarkle


If it looks too good to be true - it probably is

[stevo68]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>It's a fact that LR have replaced many new D3's for irate customers, even in the UK where there are no 'lemon laws' like the US. You don't have to search very hard for tales of woe.

I'm sure most here will have read this site by now; http://landrover.haveyoursay.com/2005/06/w...m_i_terror.html (http://landrover.haveyoursay.com/2005/06/why_am_i_terror.html)

There are plenty of others; try http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=10

Once bitten, twice shy is the proverb. I've been bitten more than once and it ain't going to happen again.
[/b][/quote]

Being only fair new to the brand, ie the D3 is my first landy, I have been suitably impressed by not only the car, plus the service I have received. Ive said this before on another forum, and I did some research. You would be hard put not to find disgruntled customers of just about any brand,make,type of vehicle. The old adage an unhappy customer will tell 10-100, a happy one a handful. People like to grizzle, sometimes rightly, but it is an easier path to go down.

I have an XR6 and I have heard from people that they are "crap" others love them to pieces. Ive never had a prob with it. I had a Ford Territory before the D3, had one prob a year into having the vehicle, a minor warranty issue, no probs getting sorted, an aside from lack of offroad ability, an excellent car. Yet I have heard from some people that they are lemons. What I would like to see is statistics, they talk, opinion doesnt.

The same sort of crap goes on at another forum, you'd think a pootrol or cruiser never have issues. Then its crap on about technology, dealerships etc etc. Do they not have a dvd, mobile phone etc. For sure some marques can have there issues, but like anything one makes a choice based on that. I guess to be honest is that I have gone out with the GCLRO and seen landies of all ages and models, and that is what it is all about. And since I have come across all these "issues" with landies, they are everywhere and been around for donkeys yonks. To me that tells me very clearly that there is some very credible kudo's with this brand and having come on board, is its biggest proponent.

So to Paul and John, buy the D3 and enjoy, I have driven top marques, and the thing I love about this beast is that it really is a vehicle that can click its classy heels when it wants to, but at the drop of a hat will rocket through mud, climb a mountain in other words do what ever the hell it wants https://www.aulro.com/afvb/. It is able to do that due to its heritage. I love that beastie in my garage, Ive had more fun and done more things in that, than I have in any other vehicle. Buying firstly a landie and secondly a D3 is the second best thing I have ever bought. The first is my house https://www.aulro.com/afvb/.

Regards

Stevo

Beer anyone :wink:

[noddy]

P38ace -- each to their own. But don't believe that great Toyota marketing machine as they certainly have their fair share of problems (front diffs, control arms cracking, rear airbag suspension problems and the infamous turbo diesel in the 80 series that was more like a grenade)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Sorry but history says that's unlikely. Even BMW gave up. [/b][/quote]

Ford are making massive inroads into areas where BMW could not. For example; most of the componentary for the D3/RRS are outsourced (ZF, GKN, and Ford/Peugeot collaboration). BMW raped LR for its intellectual property and did not invest in the same way Ford has.

The traditional problems which I believe were linked to the Solihull workforce are being broken down. The engineering integrity (LRs strength) has not been compromised as the D3 and RRS demonstrate.

What Toyotas and Landies do you have?

[drivesafe]

P38ace, as pointed out, toyota has a vial reputation for not wanting to carry out warranty repairs, so although LR dealers may be thinning out, having a toyota service centre next door is of little advantage if they won’t fix there vehicles when repairs are needed.

Mind you as there are so many toyota dealers, you could just drive from one to another and another until you find one that will do the work and that is if the vehicle is drivable, as it could get a little expensive if the things on the back of a tow truck.

BTW if you have done so much research into D3 failures, you would have noticed that there is no single on going problems as is the case with toyota and there are problems but very, VERY few are vehicle disabling failures, again not the case with the current range of toyotas.

Which brings us back to JPIs main concern about being stranded and if he is serious about not getting stranded then a toyota is now the last vehicle to consider.

PJI you can let both your heart and your head help you decide on the D3 as it will most definitely be the better and more importantly, the safer vehicle.

[p38arover]

Originally posted by Farnarkle
Went to the other forum - ack- people are certainly objective https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ didnt realise what a terrible decision I'm making according to that forum I

No, "objective" doesn't mean that they object to the purchase of a LR.

Objective means that one has weighed all the facts and come to a decision based upon those facts alone, not one'e own views. That sort of decision is subjective.

objective
• adjective not influenced by personal feelings or opinions.

subjective
• adjective based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.

Therre are other meanings for these words but I've only listed one each.

Ron

[Farnarkle]

Sorry but I thought I was using irony when I used the word Objective should have used the irony emoticon - as soon as I figure out which it is I'll use it https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

From my objective research I have no troubles with the D3 but am worried about dealers here in Bris and thats both subjective and objective ( insert appropriate emoticons here). One thing though in another thread when a magazines integrity was sort of discussed an editor jumped in to defend it - however, there is nothing but silence from the dealer mentioned when they are mentioned. If I was a LR dealer I'd be watching these forums very closely and trying to correct opinions , if they are wrong , or trying to correct my service if that is at fault? Maybe its because they are not focusing on one make?