Some better spy shots at last!

[Mules]

New 2020 Land Rover Defender - pictures | 1 | Auto Express (https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/104826/new-2020-land-rover-defender-pictures?amp)

[Mules]

New 2020 Land Rover Defender - pictures | 1 | Auto Express (https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/104826/new-2020-land-rover-defender-pictures?amp)With picture...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181002/9366f6a21ba953b8e1f20c05078abb01.jpg

[87County]

Thanks for posting....

... but it's $90,000 worth ?

[trout1105]

It looks good But no live axles kills it for me.

[Mules]

Thanks for posting....

... but is $90,000 worth ?My pleasure... and good question, if so then it certainly risks losing the traditional 'classless' appeal of Defenders hitherto

[irondoc]

Some better phoros of the upcoming Defender....

New Land Rover Defender DC100 concept revealed | News | Auto Express (https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/land-rover/defender/19933/new-land-rover-defender-due-in-2020-fresh-spy-shots-of-the-iconic-4x4?_mout=1&utm_campaign=autoexpress_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter)

[Homestar]

My pleasure... and good question, if so then it certainly risks losing the traditional 'classless' appeal of Defenders hitherto

What else were you expecting? It was always going to be aimed at the high end of town, not the average Joe - I thought JLR's MO on this was pretty clear.

[Zeros]

Whoa the first real pics?!

Yup, it looks like a D4 crossed with a RRS and the tailgate of a G wagen.

Theyre certainly not disguising the brand!

[Mules]

What else were you expecting? It was always going to be aimed at the high end of town, not the average Joe - I thought JLR's MO on this was pretty clear.You're not wrong mate. I don't disagree. Just an observation.

[Chops]

Theres quite a lot of stuck on padding in those pics.

I think the only thing that will make it high end as such, will be all the pretty paint and safety stuff thats been added. To mr average, this will immediately look "high end".
20 yeras ago, people bought a defender to work,, not show.

[Zeros]

What else were you expecting? It was always going to be aimed at the high end of town, not the average Joe - I thought JLR's MO on this was pretty clear.

Its definitely LR’s mo. If those prices are true, classic Defender prices are safe, or may even rise further. Too early to say though.

[Zeros]

If if this is it? ...I suspect it will be harshly judged by those who want a work vehicle and loved by those who want a new D4.

New Land Rover Defender DC100 concept revealed | News | Auto Express (https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/land-rover/defender/19933/new-land-rover-defender-due-in-2020-fresh-spy-shots-of-the-iconic-4x4?_mout=1&utm_campaign=autoexpress_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter)

[weeds]

I’m guessing it’s a mule......I doubt they would give away final body shape this early.

They haven’t tried to hide they are doing testing so I’m guessing they are playing with our minds.

[justinc]

🤮🤮🤮

Well, thats me done, im keeping my 33yo 110!!!

[weeds]

I think I will wait for the actual final product....my guess is they are playing with our minds.

[weeds]

There just tricking us

[vnx205]

Left hand drive prototype?
Does that mean the European and US markets are their priority?

[Homestar]

I think I will wait for the actual final product....my guess is they are playing with our minds.

Agreed.

[grey_ghost]

Have to say - once again these pics show nothing. I won’t make up my mind until I see some official (no spy pics with camo on them and pure conjecture)

[rar110]

I think I will wait for the actual final product....my guess is they are playing with our minds.

Agree, but probably closer in body style/size than mule in previous pics.

[Zeros]

Left hand drive prototype?
Does that mean the European and US markets are their priority?

Of course. The front even resembles an American truck.

[RobA]

Who knows if they are the real deal or not. Why not just take a close look to see what we can make of it and have a bit of fun.

IFS all round, no surprise. EAS? doubtful but would be nice to have. But it looks low to the ground so jury out on EAS for me
Bonnet clamps interesting but are they product
Rear door. Well if production it will divide owners. If you tow the door will potentially be a PITA. If you don't then great access.
Rear storage area looks small but with rear seats down should be about the same as a D4 perhaps
Rims look tall enough to be 18's
Clean underbody
Dual rear mufflers could be any engine type from 4-6 cylinders. But their location, if production, may diminish departure angle
Engine vents in front of F&R doors look deep so wading depth could be an interesting number
Rear of car appears to have quite defined portal which defines the door and rear bumper size. Rear bumper has reversing sensors fitted or dots indicating them

Will be interesting to see what happens next with the project.

Hopefully we will get 6 cylinders

Rob

[SSmith]

Ill repeat one of the comments i read on farcebook.

"It looks like what the D5 should have been" [emoji1787]

[Tins]

"It looks like what the D5 should have been" [emoji1787]

Pretty much what I said about 18 months ago. The D5 moved away from what the D4 was, leaving a big gap to be filled by the Defender. I hope a split tailgate is an option.

[weeds]

Pretty much what I said about 18 months ago. The D5 moved away from what the D4 was, leaving a big gap to be filled by the Defender. I hope a split tailgate is an option.

Barn door or doors hopefully.....

[Arapiles]

Ill repeat one of the comments i read on farcebook.

"It looks like what the D5 should have been" [emoji1787]

That's what I thought - it's a re-worked D4. For example, the C pillar is pure D4. And yes, it's what the D5 should've been.

I think that it will also have sub-frames, like the D4 was both monocoque and on a ladder chassis, but without the full ladder frame.

[Arapiles]

Barn door or doors hopefully.....

It's going to have a tail-mounted spare - the leaked internal representations show a spare on the rear door.

[rar110]

It looks to me JLR have stuck moulding to roof, bonnet, door window sills and rear quarter to conceal the shape. Which probably means the final shape is under there somewhere.

[Arapiles]

EAS? doubtful but would be nice to have. But it looks low to the ground so jury out on EAS for me


Rob

I'd expect it to be EAS - otherwise this pilot model would have more ground clearance. And given that it's IFS they'd just plug in what's currently under the D5 etc, which means EAS.

[Arapiles]

Who knows if they are the real deal or not. Why not just take a close look to see what we can make of it and have a bit of fun.



These photos were released by Land Rover itself and the cars are described by LR as pilot builds - so this is pretty much the production model. I note that they even have a space for the green oval badge on the front grill!

Have to say that I like it.

[veebs]

I'd expect it to be EAS - otherwise this pilot model would have more ground clearance. And given that it's IFS they'd just plug in what's currently under the D5 etc, which means EAS.

Yep - they have elsewhere stated this is the most advanced offroad vehicle they have ever built, meaning old-school springs and live axles are unlikely to make an appearance (except for very possibly a spring mounted poverty/extreme ruggedness pack)

Or is this the D6? haha

[veebs]

Interesting that it would be LHD?

[rick130]

Hopefully the bonnet is shorter than it appears in the photos.
One big advantage of a 90/110/130 over the opposition was a much better view over the bonnet enabling much better wheel placement off road.

Anyone that has driven a GU Patrol off road knows how it's "by guess or by God" when it comes to reaching the summit of a steep climb.

[kowari]

It looks to me JLR have stuck moulding to roof, bonnet, door window sills and rear quarter to conceal the shape. Which probably means the final shape is under there somewhere.

So they moved the disco 4 aside to introduce.........a disco 4

[cuppabillytea]

Oh well. Guess Mr Landy was right after all.

[DeanoH]

It may just be LR playing mind games but it sure looks like a tarted up, re badged D4 to me. About as appealing as the pox.

Certainly doing a good job in maintaining the high resale value of real Defenders.

Sigh .................................... :(

Deano.

[ozy013]

Never have I seen such a heavily camouflaged mule before.......and I've seen a few up close. My job involves new vehicle transport, we move vehicles for Landrover, BMW, Mercedes, Holden and many more...when the mules arrive it's in enclosed trailers, they then go straight undercover......non of the mules I've seen up close have had any badging on at all. Actually, come to think of it, I did once see a Mercedes mule, wih an Audi badge on the front.

So why go to all that effort, then slap your own logo down the side?.

Probably Landrover playing games, or another manufacturer taking advantage of all the speculation. ...........think I will wait till I see it in the flesh.

[cjc_td5]

So they moved the disco 4 aside to introduce.........a disco 4So if we end with SWB and dual cab updated D4s, that suits me just fine.

[Arapiles]

Interesting that it would be LHD?

Yes, I wondered about that too. This Defender will be able to sold in the US so it's probably a key market in terms of hoped volume.

Edit:

Other observations:

- nowhere for a tyre underneath (unless they move the exhausts) so probably on the back door
- should be room for a decent sized fuel tank, as the tyre doesn't appear to be under there
- appears to have more windscreen tech than RR, RRS or Velar - for "transparent bonnet" ability?
- tyres seem to have more sidewall than my D4's 19s, so 18s?
- almost no rear overhang

[RobA]

With LR stating they see the US of A as a key market for Defender LHD is no surprise at all. With a global product LHD is mandatory and these days the production line setup and engineering is such that you can easily build them and RHD back to back on the same line. But the base/structural engineering is extremely sophisticated and complex to allow for things like routing of wiring and plumbing and other stuff.

It will be interesting to see where the spare ends up. The photos don't show any reinforcing/mounting on the rear door. But if this is a pre-production mule that will most likely be seen on another one that will surely pop-up over the next few months

If we are looking at 2020 as the launch year, normal industry practice is to have production design finalised NLT six months and preferably longer than that ahead of launch with structural stuff pretty much already done and dusted.

Equally once they are in that zone you could anticipate field evaluation happening shortly which means we may see them popping up all over the globe later this year and certainly in 2019. If that is 2020 is the planned product launch. I found it interesting that LR commented they are in no rush for a launch date. Yet these events are normally scheduled at one of the major automobile events around the planet like; Paris, SEMA, one of the four in the USA who have "international" in their name

This thread could be a lot busier soon

Rob

[Gregz]

Hi, I am thinking that the bonnet shown with its clumsy clasps may actually hide a stepped bonnet like existing defenders (raised in the centre) . Also the side sections above the door handles and below the side windows look tacked on, probably just to align with the false bonnet. For a LHD vehicle I would expect the rear door handle to be on RHS... though probably not important at this stage of production.

[Geedublya]

Spare will be under the floor in the cargo area just to **** everyone off.

[RobA]

Spare will be under the floor in the cargo area just to **** everyone off.

Conjecture or fact?

If true that removes any chance of a third row of seats, irrelevant to some but not all. But may also mean a removable floor and large flat storage area. As well and if correct it completely destroys your ability to carry stuff for remote area travel. Resulting in no real interest in it at all

The current shots offer no help apart from showing the twin rear mufflers which indicates no spare there possibly

BUT when you look at the shots of the rear and consider my first comment regarding the back of the car looking like a portal then consider that sectioned rear bumper and how deep it is. That could be enough to fold down and allow access to a spare that was under the rear floor but you would not have to remove anything on that floor. Rather the bumper may be hinged and the spare slide out. Who knows but fun considering the options

Rob

[Slunnie]

Who knows if they are the real deal or not. Why not just take a close look to see what we can make of it and have a bit of fun.

IFS all round, no surprise. EAS? doubtful but would be nice to have. But it looks low to the ground so jury out on EAS for me
Bonnet clamps interesting but are they product
Rear door. Well if production it will divide owners. If you tow the door will potentially be a PITA. If you don't then great access.
Rear storage area looks small but with rear seats down should be about the same as a D4 perhaps
Rims look tall enough to be 18's
Clean underbody
Dual rear mufflers could be any engine type from 4-6 cylinders. But their location, if production, may diminish departure angle
Engine vents in front of F&R doors look deep so wading depth could be an interesting number
Rear of car appears to have quite defined portal which defines the door and rear bumper size. Rear bumper has reversing sensors fitted or dots indicating them

Will be interesting to see what happens next with the project.

Hopefully we will get 6 cylinders

Rob

I'm not sure what will be sold, but I have seen on FB that the mule getting around is registered with 2 litre motor in it.

[RobA]

Yep the 2l bit was mentioned in the UK article. They can download that data from their registration system. Same sort of thing you can do using the vehicle registration apps in some States of Australia.

Rob

[Geedublya]

Conjecture or fact?

If true that removes any chance of a third row of seats, irrelevant to some but not all. But may also mean a removable floor and large flat storage area. As well and if correct it completely destroys your ability to carry stuff for remote area travel. Resulting in no real interest in it at all

The current shots offer no help apart from showing the twin rear mufflers which indicates no spare there possibly

BUT when you look at the shots of the rear and consider my first comment regarding the back of the car looking like a portal then consider that sectioned rear bumper and how deep it is. That could be enough to fold down and allow access to a spare that was under the rear floor but you would not have to remove anything on that floor. Rather the bumper may be hinged and the spare slide out. Who knows but fun considering the options

Rob

Just stirring the pot for all those that have decided they hate it before it has been released.

[VladTepes]

It’s the new Land Rover Defender!* | Top Gear (https://www.topgear.com/car-news/first-look/its-new-land-rover-defender)

might be some additional info here? haven't read both in full.

[Arapiles]

BUT when you look at the shots of the rear and consider my first comment regarding the back of the car looking like a portal then consider that sectioned rear bumper and how deep it is. That could be enough to fold down and allow access to a spare that was under the rear floor but you would not have to remove anything on that floor. Rather the bumper may be hinged and the spare slide out. Who knows but fun considering the options

Rob

That's what I was wondering - but there'd be a limit on how fat a tyre could be put in there.

And, but, all of their released outlines/images for the Defender show the tyre on the back:

https://media.landrover.com/en-us/news/2018/04/land-rover-announces-70th-anniversary-celebrations-worlds-most-remote-defender-outline

Jaguar Land Rover MLA And PTA Platforms Detailed, Three New Nameplates Confirmed - autoevolution (https://www.autoevolution.com/news/jaguar-land-rover-mla-and-pta-platforms-detailed-three-new-nameplates-confirmed-127906.html#agal_0)

[donh54]

That's what I was wondering - but there'd be a limit on how fat a tyre could be put in there.

.....

Make it real hard with a towbar fitted, wouldn't it?

[RobA]

Would certainly depend on the type/design of the tow bar. I have some confidence, perhaps optimistically, that any competent design engineer would actually figure that was a pretty important part of making it work[bigsmile1]

My focus is to eventually understand it it is going to be capable of towing our AOR Q+. If not then a replacement for the D4 is going to be a very painful decision I am afraid

Rob

[rar110]

Here’s an image from a JLR presentation earlier this year OS I think. It shows both the D5 and defender with the spare on the back.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181004/88fd675595af3a267e2e4ab1a85181d9.png

[Arapiles]

Hopefully the bonnet is shorter than it appears in the photos.
One big advantage of a 90/110/130 over the opposition was a much better view over the bonnet enabling much better wheel placement off road.


If you look at the profiles that have been on the web (and are attached above) the bonnet looks to be chamfered, so that may be a fake bonnet in the "spy" photos.

Likewise, the front of the roof above the windscreen looks oddly high - and the profile above that shows a tyre on the back also show a Discovery style stepped roof, so it may be that's also a fake roof.

Honestly, this thing really does look like what the D5 should've been!

[Slunnie]

Most definately is a fake bonnet. I think its covered over like a lot of the panelwork. Check this picture in particular where you can see the original bonnet under the covering panels.

BTW, I wonder if that is setup for a hawse fairlead.

144924

[bob10]

New 2020 Defender Replacement Spied in Public - Pat Callinan's 4X4 Adventures (https://mr4x4.com.au/2020-defender-replacement-spied/?utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=New+2020+Defender+replacement+spied+in +public&utm_campaign=PC+Newsletter+%23229)

[trog]

A bizarre Rorschach test ?

[Zeros]

Yup!

...will someone please tell LR they’re dreamin!!!

Our brand is about passion, and it is icons that drive that passion. The truth is the world doesn’t need another premium brand doing what all the others do. These icons are what separate us; at Land Rover we are rooted in our heritage and that’s what makes us different.” :Rolling:

[loanrangie]

Don't know why you old fogies are whinging, tiny windows, aerodynamics of a brick ticks a few defender boxes for me.
Wonder if they will add a shin digging hand brake just for nostalgia.

[DiscoMick]

I wonder if they've deliberately kept the square lines of the D4 for the Defender while making the Discovery range curved, just to distinguish them?

[Zeros]

I wonder if they've deliberately kept the square lines of the D4 for the Defender while making the Discovery range curved, just to distinguish them?

Yup. Probably.

but who knows what’s really under all those fridge boxes and sticky tape?

[tonyf]

Yup!

...will someone please tell LR they’re dreamin!!!

Our brand is about passion, and it is icons that drive that passion. The truth is the world doesn’t need another premium brand doing what all the others do. These icons are what separate us; at Land Rover we are rooted in our heritage and that’s what makes us different.” :Rolling:

I reckon this is still in heavy disguise. The bonnet will be lowered, the front wings lowered further (both to somewhat simulate the old Defender), the side window sills will be lowered (covered in the pic by the rectangular panels), masking of rear quarter windows removed, and back windows larger than shown. All together, that could make it look very reminiscent of the old Defender with monocoque body and a bit more rounded.

I think it has far more potential for turning out really well than did the previous prototype.

[cjc_td5]

Haha, is this the third or fourth thread on this media release?

[timax]

Hmmmm well the first things i notice that im a little worried about are....
Tyre diameter looks small and the space is tight to fit bigger.
Too low
Sloping sides.

We tend to do a lot of soft sand driving and sleep in the back of our 110.
This looks like it will belly out in the deeper ruts and id damage the front underside for sure.
Then there is the less practical room inside being angled.
I love the side table we use that hangs against the flat rear quarter plus ease of mounting a shower and water supply.
Not much room for a ladder either.
Im hoping once the covers are off and we get to have a proper look that these issues i have wont exist or at least easy to work around.
At the moment it looks like a D4 replacement rather than a Defender replacement.

[ozscott]

Very heavily camouflaged including false panels all.over. see for eg under door glass. They may use smaller wheels with taller tyres in some production variants...way to early to tell what's it's going to be like except the wheels are pushed to front and rear to allow the best approach and departure angle. Will need air suspension to be competent of course.

Cheers

[4bee]

Ladies & Gentlemen, I give you the new 'Defender Psychedelic'[smilebigeye].

[DiscoMick]

I guess another important question is if I can get 12 bags of goat poo in the back? [emoji16]

[Zeros]

I reckon this is still in heavy disguise. The bonnet will be lowered, the front wings lowered further (both to somewhat simulate the old Defender), the side window sills will be lowered (covered in the pic by the rectangular panels), masking of rear quarter windows removed, and back windows larger than shown. All together, that could make it look very reminiscent of the old Defender with monocoque body and a bit more rounded.

I think it has far more potential for turning out really well than did the previous prototype.

Ha! Not the design. ...the marketing spin!! just because they say it, don’t mean it’s true!

[Zeros]

I guess another important question is if I can get 12 bags of goat poo in the back? [emoji16]

It has special iconic nappa leather goat poo holders specially designed by Jerry McGov in Saville Row.

[JDNSW]

Actually, I was wondering if it retains the flat top to the front mudguards to rest the chainsaw on while sharpening the chain. The tray at the back will, presumably, comfortably hold a tonne of ironbark?

[4bee]

I guess another important question is if I can get 12 bags of goat poo in the back? [emoji16]


Goat, Sheep, Llama, Elephant, Crock, you name it a bag is a bag, but in the latter you'll finish up with a "Crock of ****"[smilebigeye]

[Zeros]

Goat, Sheep, Llama, Elephant, Crock, you name it a bag is a bag, but in the latter you'll finish up with a "Crock of ****"[smilebigeye]

You should ask Jerry McGov for a job as a spin doctor! 🐊💩

[4bee]

Really? Li'l old me?

No, spin doctoring is not my bag. [bigsmile1][bigsmile1]

[Zeros]

Lots of fridge boxes and sticky tape! The bonnet even has a rubber tie down!

Looking at the vertical-ish windscreen, the flat sides, the stance, I’m still holding out a little hope... but it does look like a D4 which shoulda been a D5.

There look to be round headlights under the sticky tape?

It it could be exciting, but then it could just be another Toorak tractor

[DiscoMick]

Yes, I also want to know if I can plonk my new Ryobi electric chainsaw on the mudguards while changing the battery.
Also, does the back have carpet or rubber lining?
Can my muddy boots be plonked on the floor on the driver's side rear before I go inside the house?
Will my thongs slide under the front seat while I'm driving?
So many important design parameters.

[RANDLOVER]

Actually, I was wondering if it retains the flat top to the front mudguards to rest the chainsaw on while sharpening the chain. The tray at the back will, presumably, comfortably hold a tonne of ironbark?

The bonnet looks flat enough, and the chain saw holding grip can be improved, by riveting some chequer plate on to it.

[rammypluge]

Looks like it has enough ground clearance under that front bumper and the sills to handle a decent speed bump or even a kerb.

[Zeros]

Looks like it has enough ground clearance under that front bumper and the sills to handle a decent speed bump or even a kerb.

:Rolling: And its most likely got air suspension, which will likely be the least durable component in the bush.

[rar110]

:Rolling: And its most likely got air suspension, which will likely be the least durable component in the bush.

An air spring is no less durable than a tyre. I’ve heard of one occasion where an air spring did fail in the desert and the owner jacked up the car and stuffed it full of spinifex. It wasn’t a show stopper.

The Defender is unlikely to have dynamic suspension. Greg M on here reported a failure on corrugated Australian Rds.

Position of the compressor is relevant. The L322 has it safely inside while the D3/4 has it under the car which is more vulnerable.

[loanrangie]

I thinking yesterday that a base model D3 with coils and manual box is damn near a defender replacement.

[rar110]

Actually, I was wondering if it retains the flat top to the front mudguards to rest the chainsaw on while sharpening the chain. The tray at the back will, presumably, comfortably hold a tonne of ironbark?

I’m tipping it will have a clamb shell bonnet so allows wider engine bay. The promo diagram is not really clear either way.

[Zeros]

An air spring is no less durable than a tyre. I’ve heard of one occasion where an air spring did fail in the desert and the owner jacked up the car and stuffed it full of spinifex. It wasn’t a show stopper.

Yes you could carry a spare airspring, compressor, lines etc. But a coil spring is better out bush IMO. ...stuffing anything with spinifex is ridiculous, would not be pleasant in 50degree desert heat! nor a satisfactory repair. Tech for techs sake is one reason LR has lost the bush / work market. I’ll stick with the coils. ...oh and the spare tyres LOL - much easier to change than stuffing a rubber booty with spinifex. No comprison.

[Zeros]

I’m tipping it will have a clamb shell bonnet so allows wider engine bay. The promo diagram is not really clear either way.

Clamshell bonnet = Range Rover
Flat wingtops for beers, chainsaws, etc = Defender

[cripesamighty]

I thinking yesterday that a base model D3 with coils and manual box is damn near a defender replacement.

So did a lot of people in South Africa - both D3 and D4 manual coiler versions.

[scarry]

So did a lot of people in South Africa - both D3 and D4 manual coiler versions.

Coils are no where near as good as EAS,off road,in a vehicle with independent suspension.

If that thing is the new Deefer,then it would need EAS to be capable off road,coupled with terrain response,which makes it full of complicated electronics.

IF accessories can't be added to it easily,that will definitely reduce sales.

I would say its being built in the same class as the D3/4,not the old Deefer class.Noting the D5 is now up into a class above the D3/4.

So Toyota will continue on their merry way with the old hat,simple 70 series,and continue to sell them in bucket loads,in Aus,and also many other countries,such as Africa.

[loanrangie]

But coils will appeal to the luddites who think old school is best.

[scarry]

But coils will appeal to the luddites who think old school is best.

Good luck to them[biggrin]

[scarry]

:Rolling: And its most likely got air suspension, which will likely be the least durable component in the bush.

As long as they have at last sorted the adapter shaft.......[bighmmm]

Yes,EAS is delicate,coils are so more reliable,but hopeless in a vehicle that has IS all corners.

There are probably more EAS issues in the D3/4 section than any other issue,and one of the few things that i have had issues with in my D4.

The more complicated a vehicle is the more chance of failures,not ideal for remote area travel.

I actually think that,if it is the new Deefer is probably going to be in the same class as a D3/4,noting the D5 has gone up to a new level.

As i said on another thread on here,

If this new thing is the new Deefer,and accessories are difficult to fit(think D5),is highly complicated with electronics,the 70 series nice and simple will soldier on and continue high sales both here in Aus,as well as many other countries of the world,such as Africa.
And LR have virtually no chance of ever getting the market back,maybe they don't want it?

Recently i have travelled extensively in East Africa,the old TDI is vehicle of choice for many.But any LR built later than them is not wanted,and the latest run of Defenders,particularly from 07 have a shocking reputation everywhere.So the 70 with the 1 HZ,still available new is now the vehicle of choice,and has been for many years.

[RANDLOVER]

New 2020 Land Rover Defender - pictures | Auto Express (https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/104826/new-2020-land-rover-defender-pictures#2)

More pics here. (18 of)

[RANDLOVER]

.............

Recently i have travelled extensively in East Africa,the old TDI is vehicle of choice for many.But any LR built later than them is not wanted,and the latest run of Defenders,particularly from 07 have a shocking reputation everywhere.So the 70 with the 1 HZ,still available new is now the vehicle of choice,and has been for many years.

That's right, I have even seen an ad from Nene Overland (IIRC) in the UK where they convert the TD5 Discoveries to TDI engines, I believe they call it a "Sahara" conversion, obviously for remote desert travel.

[Arapiles]

I’m guessing it’s a mule......I doubt they would give away final body shape this early.

They haven’t tried to hide they are doing testing so I’m guessing they are playing with our minds.

They're not mules, LR have started that they're pilot builds - so this is pretty much the final shape.
And these "spy" pics apparently came from LR .

[LRJim]

The windscreen would make a good ski jump. Defender died when they changed from air vents to A.c.
Nothing defender about it, just a boxy disco.

[Arapiles]

Probably Landrover playing games, or another manufacturer taking advantage of all the speculation. ...........think I will wait till I see it in the flesh.

LR said at the Paris motor show that this is a pilot build, not a mule. In other words, this is what we're getting. And the photos were taken by LR at LR's front gate, presumably in Solihull.




So Toyota will continue on their merry way with the old hat,simple 70 series,and continue to sell them in bucket loads,in Aus,and also many other countries,such as Africa.

70 series is heading for the chopping block because most of the current models don't meet the minimum safety standards required by mines. That's why they updated just the one model with airbags - it was the one the mines use. Why not update all of the models? Because there simply isn't a business case for it. At the moment they only sell them in countries where safety standards are lax enough, but I'd guess that they'll be gone entirely within 10 years.

[Arapiles]

Interesting disparity in responses between Disco owners and Defender owners ....

If you look at the LR slides I posted earlier there are two new LR models/nameplates to come. One is probably the "Road Rover" but might the other be a new hard core mining/farming vehicle? I note in this respect that the new Defender is stated to be "dual use" vs the Discovery which is stated to be "lifestyle" or something to that effect.

[Zeros]

‘Dual Use’ for contemporary Land Rover = City & Suberbs

[rar110]

Good luck to them[biggrin]

Yep, have seen a few posts from people with coil D3 being quite disappointed.

Nothing like having a 2” lift at the touch of a button.

[Arapiles]

Yep, have seen a few posts from people with coil D3 being quite disappointed.

Nothing like having a 2” lift at the touch of a button.

It's also very cool to be able to drop the height to get into car parks. Had a lifted Patrol with a roof rack in front of me trying to get into the Crown carpark - he had to reverse back onto Kings Way, I dropped the height and got in easily.

[p38arover]

One is probably the "Road Rover"

That name was used in the 50s on an LR wagon and later on the first Rangies before the Range got it's final name (see Range Rover, The Complete Story, page 12. There is a photo but I'm not going to lay my book flat on the scanner to get a photo to post.

EDIT: Here's a pic, not the same as in my book but you can make out the name on the clay model.

144940

144941

[rar110]

Yes you could carry a spare airspring, compressor, lines etc. But a coil spring is better out bush IMO. ...stuffing anything with spinifex is ridiculous, would not be pleasant in 50degree desert heat! nor a satisfactory repair. Tech for techs sake is one reason LR has lost the bush / work market. I’ll stick with the coils. ...oh and the spare tyres LOL - much easier to change than stuffing a rubber booty with spinifex. No comprison.

The air spring is less vulnerable than I tyre, as it has no contact with track/road. I wouldn’t carry a spare air spring. I would carry a spare rear shock though.

I count on the front springs in my L322 lasting about 10 years. So changed the fronts before the last trip. The rear springs don’t seem to fail. The first L322s are now 16 years old and rear springs don’t seem to be giving up.

[Zeros]

It's also very cool to be able to drop the height to get into car parks. Had a lifted Patrol with a roof rack in front of me trying to get into the Crown carpark - he had to reverse back onto Kings Way, I dropped the height and got in easily.

Well that says it all about Land Rovers target market.

[Zeros]

The air spring is less vulnerable than I tyre, as it has no contact with track/road. I wouldn’t carry a spare air spring. I would carry a spare rear shock though.

I count on the front springs in my L322 lasting about 10 years. So changed the fronts before the last trip. The rear springs don’t seem to fail. The first L322s are now 16 years old and rear springs don’t seem to be giving up.

What?! ...just stuff some spinifex in ya shock, she’ll be right!

Not convinced. My Defender coils have been going strong for 20 years over the harshest terrain in the country. I’ll stick with coils.

Cant say the same about OME shocks, which is why I now run Koni Raids.

[cjc_td5]

Well that says it all about Land Rovers target market.What BS. Lowering the height is also very handy for loading roof racks and also at camp you can drop the height to make vehicle access easier.

[scarry]

LR said at the Paris motor show that this is a pilot build, not a mule. In other words, this is what we're getting. And the photos were taken by LR at LR's front gate, presumably in Solihull.



70 series is heading for the chopping block because most of the current models don't meet the minimum safety standards required by mines. That's why they updated just the one model with airbags - it was the one the mines use. Why not update all of the models? Because there simply isn't a business case for it. At the moment they only sell them in countries where safety standards are lax enough, but I'd guess that they'll be gone entirely within 10 years.

Guess all you like,thats what many said years ago,that they would be gone sometime soon,one day,maybe.

All models have airbags in Aus,but not all models are 5 star rated.Some mines use more than just the single cab,which is the 5 star rated model,as do hundreds of Govt departments.

If you look at V facts,over the last few years,sales of the 70 series have not declined,in fact the opposite has happened.

There are also numerous vehicles on the market that will be 'gone entirely within 10 yrs'

[Arapiles]

Well that says it all about Land Rovers target market.

The point is that with EAS you can have the ground clearance of a lifted truck running 37 inch tyres - and still get into car parks. Works for me.

[Arapiles]

My understanding was that airbags are a mature technology and that, for example, a lot of trucks use them. So they shouldn't inherently be less reliable than coils - unless someone knows that to be the case? And putting to one side how LR initially implemented them ....

[Zeros]

The point is that with EAS you can have the ground clearance of a lifted truck running 37 inch tyres - and still get into car parks. Works for me.

It really because it doesn’t increase diff clearance like 37s would. ...despite that I’ve never needed to run 37s. So horses for courses I guess.

[Slunnie]

It really because it doesn’t increase diff clearance like 37s would. ...despite that I’ve never needed to run 37s. So horses for courses I guess.

With IFS/IRS it does.

[timax]

Id love the Airbags on my Defender so thats a plus for me. Im forever digging holes in the sand to level out the car for sleeping. Would be great to have it self level.

[Zeros]

Id love the Airbags on my Defender so thats a plus for me. Im forever digging holes in the sand to level out the car for sleeping. Would be great to have it self level.

Yes that would be an advantage if you sleep in your car, as would the other stated reasons. Whether they are enough to outweigh the reliability of coils I’m not so sure.

[Graeme]

Air suspension levelling is only with respect to the average ground level, not to the horizon and no different to steel springs. I'd still have air suspension though.

[scarry]

Id love the Airbags on my Defender so thats a plus for me. Im forever digging holes in the sand to level out the car for sleeping. Would be great to have it self level.

Stock late model LR cannot do this,you would need to mod it,or use the GAP tool maybe and fiddle around.

Not easy to do.

I think some other vehicles can do it,as can some camper,and caravans with EAS.

[scarry]

My understanding was that airbags are a mature technology and that, for example, a lot of trucks use them. So they shouldn't inherently be less reliable than coils - unless someone knows that to be the case? And putting to one side how LR initially implemented them ....

Forgetting about the earlier RR,with EAS,which were highly problematic,have a look through the D3/4 section here,and you will find numerous threads about EAS faults.There are also quite a few RR,and RRS threads about EAS faults.

Compared with coil issues on the earlier D1,D2,Defender,there are very few.

The more things there are to go wrong,the more will go wrong,its pretty simple,and the vehicle will more than likely end up on its bump stops,not a great situation in the middle of no where.PArticularly if it is shod with oversize tyres....

Sure the later D4 EAS was much more reliable than the earlier D3,which was very problematic,so they have done improvements,but issues will and do still arise.

[cripesamighty]

Hence why the South African market still sold the coilers up to the D4 for those that preferred a less complex overlanding/touring option.

[timax]

Stock late model LR cannot do this,you would need to mod it,or use the GAP tool maybe and fiddle around.

Not easy to do.

I think some other vehicles can do it,as can some camper,and caravans with EAS.
Figured that would be the case. My thoughts are that as long as the bags are in place then someone will come up with a mod. Fingers crossed! Thats what Defenders are about really,easy to tweak the way you want.

[Arapiles]

So if we end with SWB and dual cab updated D4s, that suits me just fine.

Or ... a 130 inch D4 - so you can carry people and luggage. And not go deaf.

[cjc_td5]

Or ... a 130 inch D4 - so you can carry people and luggage. And not go deaf.Yes I hope that pilot vehicle is a MWB variant and there is a longer wheelbase version for a decent cab-chassis and dual cab.

[rar110]

In the 4 years of owning my L322, which is now almost 11 years old and done over 280k km, I’ve never had an EAS fault.

[Zeros]

In the 4 years of owning my L322, which is now almost 11 years old and done over 280k km, I’ve never had an EAS fault.

Where does your L322 spend most of its time?

[veebs]

Where does your L322 spend most of its time?

Fairly loaded question there, given the 'location' under rar's profile says Brisbane...

I note your signature only lists Defenders - How much time have you spent off-road (or on road) with EAS/TR equipped, modern Land Rovers?

My point isn't to create an argument here - rather, that we each appreciate individual opinion. Yes, a spiral piece of steel is less likely to throw a fault code than an electronically controlled air suspension. However, that doesn't make the air spring unreliable, or the coils perfect in every way.

It's almost a religious argument - neither 'side' will convince the other their way is right. Lets just hope the L660 somehow pulls off the impossible, and appeals to both traditionalists and technologists.

[Zeros]

Fairly loaded question there, given the 'location' under rar's profile says Brisbane...

I note your signature only lists Defenders - How much time have you spent off-road (or on road) with EAS/TR equipped, modern Land Rovers?

My point isn't to create an argument here - rather, that we each appreciate individual opinion. Yes, a spiral piece of steel is less likely to throw a fault code than an electronically controlled air suspension. However, that doesn't make the air spring unreliable, or the coils perfect in every way.

It's almost a religious argument - neither 'side' will convince the other their way is right. Lets just hope the L660 somehow pulls off the impossible, and appeals to both traditionalists and technologists.

I’m simply interested if anyone has spent significant time out bush with air suspension? I don’t mean a big road trip or overland trip, but rather constant bush / desert work over many years. Would be interested to hear. ...I would certainly feel more confident with the simplicity of 4 coils for constant bush work.

[rick130]

I’m simply interested if anyone has spent significant time out bush with air suspension? I don’t mean a big road trip or overland trip, but rather constant bush / desert work over many years. Would be interested to hear. ...I would certainly feel more confident with the simplicity of 4 coils for constant bush work.

Rangier Rover converted his 120 ute to full air and used/uses it on the farm.
I haven't seen him around for quite a while but he loved it.

Firestone truck bags are bloody tough.
Quite a few 110/130 owners on here went Firestone truck bags in the rear and I can't recall hearing of any tears/punctures but that doesn't mean it can't happen.
Apparently good old tyre plugs will work as a fix to get you going again.

[weeds]

I’m simply interested if anyone has spent significant time out bush with air suspension? I don’t mean a big road trip or overland trip, but rather constant bush / desert work over many years. Would be interested to hear. ...I would certainly feel more confident with the simplicity of 4 coils for constant bush work.

Constant Bush work.......a work car on property?

There are a few member that have done extended trips......without issue that good enough for me. CSR comes to mind.

Maybe it’s a case of preventative/predictive maintenance like any other piece of equipment used in harsh conditions.

I’ve got bags on the rear of my defer....sure way more simple than what the all the Land Rover will have but I’m pretty confident I’ll get a good run out of them

If they give an option of coils and air I bet air will outsell coils by a big number...although my bet is there won’t be a coil option.

[rar110]

My L322 spends most of its life parked up unfortunately. But it’s done plenty of beach work to Straddy, Moreton, Bribie and Fraser. The only bush work has been on a property I have through tall grass, inclines and uneven ground but nothing really hard.

I’m not knocking coils. I have a Perentie and 2 project 110s in waiting.

I’m sure like the L494 RRS and D5, the new defender will provide both options. But the D4/3 coiled vehicles without terrain response did not have the same capability as EAS/TR vehicles.

The last trip to Moreton.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181008/91297d1599057f8d479d805b91d4ac92.jpg

[roverrescue]

I recounted this story before on AULro but about 10 years ago we helped out old mate with a GU Ute and Tvan near Bathurst Bay (Cape York)
He had rear converted to airstone bags

Had holed one on road in luckily carrying spare
So installed it and then holed the otherside on way out where we found him

Both holed right where the bag rolls on the sleeve so no chance of rubber repair

Now he had a lot of weight onboard so maybe they were overloaded
Maybe if he had coils in he would have cracked his spring bucket
Maybe maybe?

Anyways in four million degree baking heat we cut up a foam mat, stuffed the bag full
Of foam, (no rolling action) , wrapped it with canvas from memory and rope epoxy

We towed the tvan and he limped out to the PDr

Point is they can fail

But so can anything!!!


I would argue that a well engineered OEM designnisbpropoable less likely to have catastrophic failure than a retro mod

In any case I’ll hold judgement till I see a Ute variant of the 660
But at the moment it looks like a D3/D4 = ugliest thing ever to leave Solihull

S

[VladTepes]

D3/D4 = ugliest thing ever to leave SolihullS

https://media.tenor.co/images/ac98fae3cf745c776ef130b8761c476e/tenor.gif

[jillr]

My pleasure... and good question, if so then it certainly risks losing the traditional 'classless' appeal of Defenders hitherto

I suspect that the "original classless Defender" was a 2nd or 3rd hand machine. Similarly when the new Defender has been out for a bit, it will no doubt be affordable when it's also 2nd or 3rd hand. I think it looks pretty good though.

[roverrescue]

https://media.tenor.co/images/ac98fae3cf745c776ef130b8761c476e/tenor.gif


The truth sometimes hurts;
boxy “can” look timeless and cool ... like a defender

Or it just looks meh and ugerley like a D3/D4

Honestly, even D3/D4 owners will say - “well the look grows on you”and “ it’s so practical “ and “it fits lots in” - geez It’s not like I’m dissing them completely. They are nice to drive, go anywhere, are comfortable, well thought out (mostly)
It’s just that the D3/D4 body shape
Fell from the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down

S

[Zeros]

At least the D4 is not a babushka doll clone of everything else, like all current LR models. And I’m a Defender tragic :)

[DiscoMick]

I like the D 3/4 squarish shape, it's looks very purposeful to me.

[irondoc]

Hang on, the D5 is so much uglier then the D3/4.....

[roverrescue]

D5, like evoque is for the car park
Doesn’t even compute as a four by

So it doesn’t matter if it’s ugly or meh

[rar110]

I’m coming around to the look of the D5, and people are reporting it’s more agile than the D4. The D4 is impressive in my limited experience of driving one on Fraser and Straddie.

[1nando]

D5= not a serious HD offroad vehicle. My opinion

[Vern]

D5= not a serious HD offroad vehicle. My opinionJust like a new patrol[emoji12]

[Vern]

D5, like evoque is for the car park
Doesn’t even compute as a four by



Why not?

[Zeros]

D5= not a serious HD offroad vehicle. My opinion

Agreed

[Zeros]

Why not?

D5 is an SUV. Sales are plummeting.

These days it’s either luxury SUV, generic dualcab, or antiquated cart sprung 70 series. The world is obsessed with urbanity. 4x4s don’t compute unless they are mommy bling or tradie bling.

[veebs]

D5 is an SUV. Sales are plummeting.

These days it’s either luxury SUV, generic dualcab, or antiquated cart sprung 70 series. The world is obsessed with urbanity. 4x4s don’t compute unless they are mommy bling or tradie bling.

You're right. There was plenty of room in the market for TWO antiquated cart sprung vehicles. The demise of the old Defender just handed Toyota the market (although I think they pretty much already had it).

Every new iteration of these vehicles has brought the same response - 'too fancy for the bush' or words to that effect. Every new iteration also proven the haters wrong.

I don't for an instant question the D5's capability offroad, however the practicality of the design (ie cargo area, tailgate configuration, 3 row seating space, 3rd party accessories etc) is yet to be proven in my mind.

[Zeros]

You're right. There was plenty of room in the market for TWO antiquated cart sprung vehicles. The demise of the old Defender just handed Toyota the market (although I think they pretty much already had it).

Every new iteration of these vehicles has brought the same response - 'too fancy for the bush' or words to that effect. Every new iteration also proven the haters wrong.

I don't for an instant question the D5's capability offroad, however the practicality of the design (ie cargo area, tailgate configuration, 3 row seating space, 3rd party accessories etc) is yet to be proven in my mind.

Kinda. Except Defender isn’t cart sprung, has four disc brakes and has always had a leading fuel efficient turbo charged diesel. Way ahead of 70 series still IMO.

[1nando]

Just like a new patrol[emoji12]Agreed. Although I'd say the patrol and 200 series are both more HD than the disco 5! Ladder frame chassis is the best platform for HD vehicles, that's why all trucks are ladder frame. This statement is bound to get quiet a few peoples knickers in a twist but it's a fact! Just like diesel engines offer the best fuel economy in working vehicles hauling heavy loads.

Land rover says it wants to build the best offroad vehcile ever; that's what they've promised to deliver.

So let's pause for a minute and analyse that statement by asking a few questions:

Q1) in the defenders niche market who are it's main competitors world wide?
A: wrangler, 70 series, g wagon, y61 patrol (still sold in many parts of the world). They're the 4 main HD overland vehicles sold world wide. Whether you hate or love any of the above mentioned vehicles is irrelevant, it's a fact that these are considered the best vehciles for overland travel. The old defender used to be in this category.

Q2) What do they all have in common?
A) ladder frame chassis, live axels, excellent low range gearing and relatively simple drive trains.

Q3) what makes all those vehicles so attractive to overland owners?
A) relatively simple design, lack of electronics, mechanical levers to engage low and high range, live axels, proven track history, reliable, price point

So taking those 3 questions Into consideration and assuming your after a true HD offroad vehicle I ask myself;

Q) Do I want to pay a premium price for a 4wd wagon with independent suspension, electronics galore, fancy air suspension monocoque built offroader with no track history? This is more than likely what the new defender is going to be.

A) My answer; no! Remember I said assuming you're after a hd offroad vehicle.

If I answered yes however to the above question and wanted something reliable with a proven track history at a premium price then I would be considering a 200 series, g wagon, discovery 4 (not d5, not enough after market gear to protect it), y62 patrol and maybe a Everest..... why the hell would I buy the new defender? Ony some of these however are as HD offroad as the vehicles mentioned in the defenders intended niche market( I listed up the top).

If the new defender however has a similar platform to its niche rivals, with a great engine, ladder frame chassis, live axles, is reliable and at a reasonable price point.....they won't be able to build them quick enough to sell!

My comments are bound to ruffle a few feathers but to me and my logic it makes sense, maybe I'm still a caveman but eh; if it ain't broke don't fix it and that recipe seems to work great for the 70 series, g wagon (most militarys have them now), and jeep!

[Arapiles]

Q1) in the defenders niche market who are it's main competitors world wide?
A: wrangler, 70 series, g wagon, y61 patrol (still sold in many parts of the world). They're the 4 main HD overland vehicles sold world wide



Even the Patrol owner websites admit that the Y61's 3.0 litre diesel is extremely unreliable - not what I'd be choosing for a trip around the world.

[Arapiles]

Just like a new patrol[emoji12]

Not sure of the intent of the emoji, but for the record the Y62 Patrol is one of the most capable 4WDS around. They weren't popular with Patrol/Nissan fans when introduced a couple of years ago - not a diesel, IFS, too many electronics (does that sound at all familiar?) - but they are winning people over now. Lots of modified ones running around, and they're regarded as being very reliable whilst being more capable than the Y61/GU etc.

[Chops]

Just wondering, what exactly is HD "use" in your opinion,, and indeed others.

I ask this because it's probably assumed that one would do things like,, tow a trailer, collect firewood, do a rubbish run etc etc etc. Realistically, all these tasks can be done with any and all of these vehicles you've mentioned, including the D5. Obviously a ute would be better suited for things like the rubbish run and firewood, and probably for the refueling drums you see that they carry for filling machinery. Some jobs are just messy.

The guys on here will tell you that when we're away camping,, our "station wagons" a D4 now, but also D1 & D2, (SUV's ??) does all of this and more.




Agreed. Although I'd say the patrol and 200 series are both more HD than the disco 5! Ladder frame chassis is the best platform for HD vehicles, that's why all trucks are ladder frame. This statement is bound to get quiet a few peoples knickers in a twist but it's a fact! Just like diesel engines offer the best fuel economy in working vehicles hauling heavy loads.

Land rover says it wants to build the best offroad vehcile ever; that's what they've promised to deliver.

So let's pause for a minute and analyse that statement by asking a few questions:

Q1) in the defenders niche market who are it's main competitors world wide?
A: wrangler, 70 series, g wagon, y61 patrol (still sold in many parts of the world). They're the 4 main HD overland vehicles sold world wide. Whether you hate or love any of the above mentioned vehicles is irrelevant, it's a fact that these are considered the best vehciles for overland travel. The old defender used to be in this category.

Q2) What do they all have in common?
A) ladder frame chassis, live axels, excellent low range gearing and relatively simple drive trains.

Q3) what makes all those vehicles so attractive to overland owners?
A) relatively simple design, lack of electronics, mechanical levers to engage low and high range, live axels, proven track history, reliable, price point

So taking those 3 questions Into consideration and assuming your after a true HD offroad vehicle I ask myself;

Q) Do I want to pay a premium price for a 4wd wagon with independent suspension, electronics galore, fancy air suspension monocoque built offroader with no track history? This is more than likely what the new defender is going to be.

A) My answer; no! Remember I said assuming you're after a hd offroad vehicle.

If I answered yes however to the above question and wanted something reliable with a proven track history at a premium price then I would be considering a 200 series, g wagon, discovery 4 (not d5, not enough after market gear to protect it), y62 patrol and maybe a Everest..... why the hell would I buy the new defender? Ony some of these however are as HD offroad as the vehicles mentioned in the defenders intended niche market( I listed up the top).

If the new defender however has a similar platform to its niche rivals, with a great engine, ladder frame chassis, live axles, is reliable and at a reasonable price point.....they won't be able to build them quick enough to sell!

My comments are bound to ruffle a few feathers but to me and my logic it makes sense, maybe I'm still a caveman but eh; if it ain't broke don't fix it and that recipe seems to work great for the 70 series, g wagon (most militarys have them now), and jeep!

[1nando]

Not sure of the intent of the emoji, but for the record the Y62 Patrol is one of the most capable 4WDS around. They weren't popular with Patrol/Nissan fans when introduced a couple of years ago - not a diesel, IFS, too many electronics (does that sound at all familiar?) - but they are winning people over now. Lots of modified ones running around, and they're regarded as being very reliable whilst being more capable than the Y61/GU etc.Vern and I both know mate. We both own one! For the record, easily the most reliable vehcile I've ever had. Amazingly and I love it!

For the record, I had a heavily modified 110 puma and that thing would of eaten pretty much everything offroad. No y62, 200, or d4/5 would get next to it. Did everything offroad easily however my y62 would eat it on sand and on road as would all the vehicles listed above

The defender was properhl hd!

[1nando]

The 3ltr which I don't rate only really had issues upto 2006. Post 06 nissan rectified the over boost issue that caused the 2nd and or 3rd piston to disintegrate.

The most popular y61 platform sold in the world is the 4.8ltr v8 pertol which is still sold in the middle East, south America and Africa and is know for it's strength. Nissan as a manufacturer has a reputation for drivetrain strength that not many other manufacturers have a claim to.
Even the Patrol owner websites admit that the Y61's 3.0 litre diesel is extremely unreliable - not what I'd be choosing for a trip around the world.

[1nando]

Just wondering, what exactly is HD "use" in your opinion,, and indeed others.

I ask this because it's probably assumed that one would do things like,, tow a trailer, collect firewood, do a rubbish run etc etc etc. Realistically, all these tasks can be done with any and all of these vehicles you've mentioned, including the D5. Obviously a ute would be better suited for things like the rubbish run and firewood, and probably for the refueling drums you see that they carry for filling machinery. Some jobs are just messy.

The guys on here will tell you that when we're away camping,, our "station wagons" a D4 now, but also D1 & D2, (SUV's ??) does all of this and more.Hd 4wd offroad vehcile= ladder frame chassis, live axels, proper tyres with decent side wall, manually selected low and high range and not electronic, proper low range gearing, ability to carry gear and most importantly reputation earned over time.
The new defender won't be able to trade on the same reputation as the old one of it is completely different in every way.

[Arapiles]

Vern and I both know mate. We both own one!!

OK, that makes sense ... I was wondering ... I did have a long, hard look at the Y62 before I bought the D4 - that V8 is impressive and really freaked my kids out when we took one for a test drive.

[1nando]

OK, that makes sense ... I was wondering ... I did have a long, hard look at the Y62 before I bought the D4 - that V8 is impressive and really freaked my kids out when we took one for a test drive.Check it out, a true unbiased write up I think.
I love my y62!

Y62 patrol (https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaulro%2Ecom%2Faf vb%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D255853&share_tid=255853&share_fid=669&share_type=t)

Y62 patrol

[Vern]

Check it out, a true unbiased write up I think.
I love my y62!

Y62 patrol (https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaulro%2Ecom%2Faf vb%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D255853&share_tid=255853&share_fid=669&share_type=t)

Y62 patrolSame, and have not yet come across anyone that has had one that didn't love it.
200 series, now thats another story[emoji6]

[Zeros]

Just wondering, what exactly is HD "use" in your opinion,, and indeed others.

I ask this because it's probably assumed that one would do things like,, tow a trailer, collect firewood, do a rubbish run etc etc etc. Realistically, all these tasks can be done with any and all of these vehicles you've mentioned, including the D5. Obviously a ute would be better suited for things like the rubbish run and firewood, and probably for the refueling drums you see that they carry for filling machinery. Some jobs are just messy.

The guys on here will tell you that when we're away camping,, our "station wagons" a D4 now, but also D1 & D2, (SUV's ??) does all of this and more.

Theyre all domestic duties IMO. Heavy Duty is more like hauling heavy loads / constant work in harsh environments, constant 4x4 work, constant bush, farm, desert work.

[Zeros]

The Y62 look terrible, but sound great. Let’s face it, they are huge fuel guzzling behemoths from s bygone era. Which is why many like them. Defenders are miserly mid-sized icons from a bygone era. I prefer Defender, but I can see the appeal of Y62 - just not on my wallet.

[Vern]

The Y62 look terrible, but sound great. Let’s face it, they are huge fuel guzzling behemoths from s bygone era. Which is why many like them. Defenders are miserly mid-sized icons from a bygone era. I prefer Defender, but I can see the appeal of Y62 - just not on my wallet.Fuel guzzling, just shows how much you know. Mine uses the same amount of fuel as my 4bd1 range rover, and has 3 times the power and comfort.
No more ugly than any car produced these days.
You guys just have to accept that the defender has gone.
For $67k, you get a hell of a lot of car, loads more than a defender, and just as much as a more expensive rover

[cripesamighty]

There are a couple of guys I know who got them through work and they love them to bits. One of them had an old GQ “he couldn’t part with”, but not long after the Y62 came along, the GQ went on the market.

[rar110]

For $67k, you get a hell of a lot of car, loads more than a defender, and just as much as a more expensive rover

Vern, was that a new price?

[strangy]

Fuel guzzling, just shows how much you know. .......
You guys just have to accept that the defender has gone.
For $67k, you get a hell of a lot of car, loads more than a defender, and just as much as a more expensive rover
That’s it really.
The computer assisted drivetrain isn’t the future it is here and now.
IFS and monocoque don’t equate to “soft” just because manufacturers have typically built vehicles to this spec.

What will make the new Defender a success will be looks which acknowledge the pedigree (think Jag/bmw/Porsche) but not make it cheesy and lame like the current FJ.
Then the biggest issue LR will face is to demonstrate the “built in”faults which have plagued the marque are history and any issue which does show up is rectified immediately and properly not bandaids.
Then a real load carrying capacity is essential.
IFS doesn’t preclude that.
Design and Tech is already commonplace all they have to do is get the looks and QC right.
I think they can do it and Defender with IFS won’t phase me if it’s well built machine.
But I don’t see any need for Defender wagon other than nostalgia.
I love my Defer DC and if the D3/4 came as s DC with the load capability the old Defer, upgrading would be a consideration.

[Vern]

Vern, was that a new price?Yes, 2018 series4 Ti, on road, delivered 500km to my door

[rar110]

Yes, 2018 series4 Ti, on road, delivered 500km to my door

Wow.

[cripesamighty]

Yep, about the same sort of deal the two guys I know went with earlier this year. They also got really good trade-ins on their dual cab Navara's too. The several other guys who traded in their work vehicles went with top of the line Navara's & Hilux's and were really miffed when they saw what could be had for nearly the same money (including trade-ins)!

[Vern]

Wow.Is that wow good or wow bad?

[Ranga]

Is that wow good or wow bad?

Good, I imagine. At least is to me, compared to it's main rivals.

[Vern]

Good, I imagine. At least is to me, compared to it's main rivals.Its $30k better than its rival of the same spec.

[strangy]

Yes it’s wow good.

[Summiitt]

The 3ltr which I don't rate only really had issues upto 2006. Post 06 nissan rectified the over boost issue that caused the 2nd and or 3rd piston to disintegrate.

The most popular y61 platform sold in the world is the 4.8ltr v8 pertol which is still sold in the middle East, south America and Africa and is know for it's strength. Nissan as a manufacturer has a reputation for drivetrain strength that not many other manufacturers have a claim to.

Thats what I thought regarding the 3ltr, Unfortunately, I purchased a 2012 3.0ltr cab chassis and its been a disaster. With only 90k on the clock, Ive spent about $10k on it in the last 20,000km. Failed fuel rail, failed inter cooler, cracked manifold, failed EGR, rear brake load distribution failed with no parts available in Australia..the list goes on. Its a shame because the Patrol is a fantastic work vehicle and was well set up with an increased GVM.. Ive had to trade it in as it has let us down too many places.
As for HD applications, its not towing a trailer or going to the tip or collecting firewood, For us its getting equipment into and supporting machinery in very isolated mountainous terrain. As an example, today Im heading into a part of the snowy mountains to service a dozer that will take me 2hrs in low range with a 130 Defender that carries a Lincoln Genset, air compressor, plasma cutter, 400l of water for fire suppression, oil, tools and spares. My Operator drives a 6x6 Landy that is at its GVM, with Diesel, water, chainsaws compressor spares and oil. He drives about 1000km a week, 70% of that in low range, always working very hard. Ive got 6 Defenders in these applications, and 2 Dmax in lighter duties. I believe all Utes would do what we do with them, the trick is for how long will they cope with the abuse carrying a load and what sort of real life span could you expect from them? I still own the first Defender Tdi tray top,20 years old, 585,000km and still dragging fuel and spares into forestry equipment everyday, New suspension every 200,000km, an injector pump at 390,000km and thats it other than normal service items. The only genuine replacement is a Landcruiser or a G300 ute..both are great options. So thats what I need from LR for the new Defender, Id be happy with IFS, airbags, computers, whatever..just make it fit for purpose, not a builders tow trolley for his little box trailer..145124

[Zeros]

Fuel guzzling, just shows how much you know. Mine uses the same amount of fuel as my 4bd1 range rover, and has 3 times the power and comfort.
No more ugly than any car produced these days.
You guys just have to accept that the defender has gone.
For $67k, you get a hell of a lot of car, loads more than a defender, and just as much as a more expensive rover

Well if you bag Land Rovers in a Land Rover blog by buying a Nissan what do you expectct? LOL 😇
V8’s use more fuel than 4 cylinder engines.
For $67K you’d want a hell of a lot of car - I can understand that!
Aesthetics are subjective, we can agree to disagree on the looks of the thing.
Yes Defender is gone, which is why I’ve held onto two of the best.
Cheers

[Vern]

Well if you bag Land Rovers in a Land Rover blog by buying a Nissan what do you expectct? LOL [emoji56]
V8’s use more fuel than 4 cylinder engines.
For $67K you’d want a hell of a lot of car - I can understand that!
Aesthetics are subjective, we can agree to disagree on the looks of the thing.
Yes Defender is gone, which is why I’ve held onto two of the best.
CheersAhhh where did i bag landrovers? I still have one, and possibly another coming soon.
My V8 patrol uses the same amount of fuel as my 4CYL range rover, did you miss that bit?
$67k, what did the latest defenders cost? $67-$73k i believe? You get a hell of a lot more car with the patrol.

[rar110]

Is that wow good or wow bad?

[emoji1] Like you say a lot of vehicle for the money, but also a good drive away price.

[SeanMurr123]

$67k, what did the latest defenders cost? $67-$73k i believe? You get a hell of a lot more car with the patrol.

Mine was delivered end of Dec '15 and was $59k On the Road. That was 110, Black Pack, Part Leather, Sunroof, Sidesteps. Full RRP but not inflated, they threw in the HD floor mats.

[Vern]

Mine was delivered end of Dec '15 and was $59k On the Road. That was 110, Black Pack, Part Leather, Sunroof, Sidesteps. Full RRP but not inflated, they threw in the HD floor mats.Yeah i just googled 2016 prices, no idea what they were.

[justinc]

Fuel guzzling, just shows how much you know. Mine uses the same amount of fuel as my 4bd1 range rover, and has 3 times the power and comfort.
No more ugly than any car produced these days.
You guys just have to accept that the defender has gone.
For $67k, you get a hell of a lot of car, loads more than a defender, and just as much as a more expensive rover

I test drove a Y62 in Melbourne, mix of traffic and a run down the motorway saw 14/100. Very impressive transmission and interior, too. I rate them way above the Lc200, hands down.

[Zeros]

Ahhh where did i bag landrovers? I still have one, and possibly another coming soon.
My V8 patrol uses the same amount of fuel as my 4CYL range rover, did you miss that bit?
$67k, what did the latest defenders cost? $67-$73k i believe? You get a hell of a lot more car with the patrol.

Yeah I probably should use more emojis 🤣😂😎. But admit it, we are kinda talking about the SUV equivalent of a V8 sedan. If that floats your boat 😎 But economical in real world use? I find that very hard to believe. Enjoy it Vern. But it’s not a frugal affordable vehicle comparable with a Defender. My new Defender was $45K in 2014. Uses 10-11 litres/100km.

[Vern]

Yeah I probably should use more emojis [emoji1787][emoji23][emoji41]. But admit it, we are kinda talking about the SUV equivalent of a V8 sedan. If that floats your boat [emoji41] But economical in real world use? I find that very hard to believe. Enjoy it Vern. But it’s not a frugal affordable vehicle comparable with a Defender. My new Defender was $45K in 2014. Uses 10-11 litres/100km.Sooo you don't believe my real world fuel figures of 12.8L/100 (4bd1 rangie is 12.6L/100)? Why would i lie about that. Which i think is not bad for a 400hp v8 petrol fullsize 4wd, which is just as, if not more capable than a defender striaght off the factory floor.
Also your frugal defender has quite a few known issues, and isn't of the same build as an early defender, weak 2pin diff, gearbox output adapter, weak tcase etc...and a very basic vehicle. So these are things that will need to be addressed in due time. Patrol had no real known issues, the first series had a weak timing chain, and thats about it.

[Zeros]

Sooo you don't believe my real world fuel figures of 12.8L/100 (4bd1 rangie is 12.6L/100)? Why would i lie about that. Which i think is not bad for a 400hp v8 petrol fullsize 4wd, which is just as, if not more capable than a defender striaght off the factory floor.
Also your frugal defender has quite a few known issues, and isn't of the same build as an early defender, weak 2pin diff, gearbox output adapter, weak tcase etc...and a very basic vehicle. So these are things that will need to be addressed in due time. Patrol had no real known issues, the first series had a weak timing chain, and thats about it.

Nope 😊 sounds like best ever figure / wishful thinking fuel consumption to me. ...I’d say 20 litres/100km in the real world.
Y62 Nissan Patrol review off-road | Practical Motoring (https://practicalmotoring.com.au/first-drive-car-review/y62-nissan-patrol-review-off-road/)

I’ve driven plenty of big 6 and V8’s over the years that claim 12 litres/100km. Real world 18-22/100.

Yes Defender needs some driveline upgrades - it shouldn’t be the case. All done and still under $50K. + I like the capability, character, assthetics, practicality and engaged driving experience of my Defender more than any other vehicle on the road.

[Vern]

So i have quoted 12.8, justin cooper quoted 14, but you still go by some crap you have googled. These aren't made up figures, i have the car in the driveway to prove i own it.
May be go have a look on some of the y62 facebook pages if you don't believe me.
The one you have quoted looks like a series1, much thirstier than the series3 and 4.
Guys towing 3t vans are getting 18-22 roughly, they use approx 2L/100 more than a diesel 200 series.

[Zeros]

So i have quoted 12.8, justin cooper quoted 14, but you still go by some crap you have googled. These aren't made up figures, i have the car in the driveway to prove i own it.
May be go have a look on some of the y62 facebook pages if you don't believe me.
The one you have quoted looks like a series1, much thirstier than the series3 and 4.
Guys towing 3t vans are getting 18-22 roughly, they use approx 2L/100 more than a diesel 200 series.

Ok because I’m not making my case based on actual experience, I’ll take one for a test drive sometime and I’ll keep an open mind. ...I’ll have to wear a disguise though 😊😇

By the way I’m honestly pleased for you that you’re so happy with your Y62. ...just taking the ****. ...But I still think they’re fugly 🙃

[Vern]

Ok because I’m not making my case based on actual experience, I’ll take one for a test drive sometime and I’ll keep an open mind. ...I’ll have to wear a disguise though [emoji4][emoji56]

By the way I’m honestly pleased for you that you’re so happy with your Y62. ...just taking the ****. ...But I still think they’re fugly [emoji854]As i said, their all ugly these days! The horsepower overcomes the looks[emoji6]

[Zeros]

As i said, their all ugly these days! The horsepower overcomes the looks[emoji6]

😊👍 Its definitely a sad state of affairs. Vehicle design seems to be driven by excess rather than simplicity. Counter the basic principles of good design IMO.

[scarry]

As i said, their all ugly these days! The horsepower overcomes the looks[emoji6]

And there are quite a few aftermarket accessories for them,unlike LR's latest crop of yuppy mobiles.

[Homestar]

Nope 😊 sounds like best ever figure / wishful thinking fuel consumption to me. ...I’d say 20 litres/100km in the real world.
Y62 Nissan Patrol review off-road | Practical Motoring (https://practicalmotoring.com.au/first-drive-car-review/y62-nissan-patrol-review-off-road/)

I’ve driven plenty of big 6 and V8’s over the years that claim 12 litres/100km. Real world 18-22/100 (tel:18-22/100).

Yes Defender needs some driveline upgrades - it shouldn’t be the case. All done and still under $50K. + I like the capability, character, assthetics, practicality and engaged driving experience of my Defender more than any other vehicle on the road.

The journalist even says ‘enthusiastic driving’ for the 20l/100 - that’s code for ‘Thrashed the living **** out of it’ 😁. Still, I get your point, while they have plenty of power, it wouldn’t come close to the Deefer for economy over all I shouldn’t think.

[Vern]

The journalist even says ‘enthusiastic driving’ for the 20l/100 - that’s code for ‘Thrashed the living **** out of it’ [emoji16]. Still, I get your point, while they have plenty of power, it wouldn’t come close to the Deefer for economy over all I shouldn’t think.Geee he must have been flogging it, towing a boat!![emoji4].
A guy recently completed the CSR in a quite modified and loaded one, he averaged 22L/100, which i thought was pretty good, considering when we did it in a 1hd-fte cruiser, a 79 dual cab, a 3.0 patrol, we averaged from 17-19.5L.

[1nando]

Nope [emoji4] sounds like best ever figure / wishful thinking fuel consumption to me. ...I’d say 20 litres/100km in the real world.
Y62 Nissan Patrol review off-road | Practical Motoring (https://practicalmotoring.com.au/first-drive-car-review/y62-nissan-patrol-review-off-road/)

I’ve driven plenty of big 6 and V8’s over the years that claim 12 litres/100km. Real world 18-22/100.

Yes Defender needs some driveline upgrades - it shouldn’t be the case. All done and still under $50K. + I like the capability, character, assthetics, practicality and engaged driving experience of my Defender more than any other vehicle on the road.Really Zeros?
Come on mate. I've nearly done 22,500kms on my y62 in 10 months. I get 18-20 ltrs/100 in the easten suburbs of Sydney in literally bumper to bumper traffic. On the highway I get 10-12. I can go Sydney to Melbourne only using 10.5-11.5ltrs/100.
It's documented in my y62 post on this forum that I did Sydney to Mildura, Mildura to Adelaide, Adelaide to the Barossa twice, Adelaide to Melbourne, Melbourne to Geelong and back, Melbourne to Sydney and lots of "explore driving" in every single one of those locations, always 5kmph above the posted speed limit, never spared the hp overtaking and average 13.1 ltrs/100km for that whole trip. The family on board, full fridge, all our gear including pram, toys and good knows what else.
I think if you actually drove one, experienced the comfort, space and power you'd understand that it's such a relaxing drive the extra 1ltr or 2 is well worth it.
It's the only vehcile we've ever had where the Mrs didn't feel tired after such long driving. She loved it so much she bragged about it to her father.

I'm not here to sell anyone a y62, I could GAF to be honest but I can't stand BS info. The people that review the y62s are so impressed with the glorious engine note and power that they thrash the hell out of them then report them to be thirsty.
Read this, the bloke thrashed it driving the y62 by itself then hooks up a 2.75ton trailer and gets better economy all of a sudden cause he isn't driving like a spastic anymore.


https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/nissan-patrol-ti-l-2018-review-112390

[ozscott]

Driven properly and with some respect even reviewers get decent economy.

2017 Nissan Patrol Y62 To Cape York review (https://www.whichcar.com.au/reviews/road-tests/2017-nissan-patrol-y62-to-cape-york-review)

I see this vehicle as being a very viable alternative to a Range Rover/D4

Cheers

[shack]

The truth sometimes hurts;
boxy “can” look timeless and cool ... like a defender

Or it just looks meh and ugerley like a D3/D4

Honestly, even D3/D4 owners will say - “well the look grows on you”and “ it’s so practical “ and “it fits lots in” - geez It’s not like I’m dissing them completely. They are nice to drive, go anywhere, are comfortable, well thought out (mostly)
It’s just that the D3/D4 body shape
Fell from the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down

SBeauty is in the eye of the beholder it seems,
I remember the first D3 I ever saw,
I just new I had to have one, in my opinion the sexiest 4x4 on the market at the time by a considerable margin, and capable enough to REALLY scare yourself...

[shack]

Not sure of the intent of the emoji, but for the record the Y62 Patrol is one of the most capable 4WDS around. They weren't popular with Patrol/Nissan fans when introduced a couple of years ago - not a diesel, IFS, too many electronics (does that sound at all familiar?) - but they are winning people over now. Lots of modified ones running around, and they're regarded as being very reliable whilst being more capable than the Y61/GU etc.Just showing how good people are at developing uninformed preconceived ideas, and of course these same people are the ones that often get referred to as "reformed smokers" a while down the track

[shack]

The 3ltr which I don't rate only really had issues upto 2006. Post 06 nissan rectified the over boost issue that caused the 2nd and or 3rd piston to disintegrate.

The most popular y61 platform sold in the world is the 4.8ltr v8 pertol which is still sold in the middle East, south America and Africa and is know for it's strength. Nissan as a manufacturer has a reputation for drivetrain strength that not many other manufacturers have a claim to.I'm only just reading through this thread so I don't know exactly what had been posted later, but I'm not really hearing too many happy reports regarding the 3 ltr motor in any guise, even the old zd30 in the early 03 navara that was supposedly not as problematic as on the patrol is still failing regularly, of the few I know of, only ours hasn't had too many issues,(other than a couple gearboxes and diff problems),
I feel they are a badly designed motor that can't be fixed, leading to nissan throwing then out, which is a shame because Surely having no diesel motor has cost them badly in the market. I know locally, it has become almost mandatory for every farmer to have the "bulletproof" 200 series v8 diesel, just because it's diesel..

[Zeros]

Does anyone else find it strange that despite all the refinements over the years, 4 cylinder 4x4s still use 10-12 litres/100km and V8’s still use 14-22litrrs/100km?

[Vern]

I'm only just reading through this thread so I don't know exactly what had been posted later, but I'm not really hearing too many happy reports regarding the 3 ltr motor in any guise, even the old zd30 in the early 03 navara that was supposedly not as problematic as on the patrol is still failing regularly, of the few I know of, only ours hasn't had too many issues,(other than a couple gearboxes and diff problems),
I feel they are a badly designed motor that can't be fixed, leading to nissan throwing then out, which is a shame because Surely having no diesel motor has cost them badly in the market. I know locally, it has become almost mandatory for every farmer to have the "bulletproof" 200 series v8 diesel, just because it's diesel..Its cost them here, but not the rest of the world, sells like the 200 does here.

[shack]

Its cost them here, but not the rest of the world, sells like the 200 does here.Yeah, and I guess all things considered, aus market is negligible

[1nando]

I'm only just reading through this thread so I don't know exactly what had been posted later, but I'm not really hearing too many happy reports regarding the 3 ltr motor in any guise, even the old zd30 in the early 03 navara that was supposedly not as problematic as on the patrol is still failing regularly, of the few I know of, only ours hasn't had too many issues,(other than a couple gearboxes and diff problems),
I feel they are a badly designed motor that can't be fixed, leading to nissan throwing then out, which is a shame because Surely having no diesel motor has cost them badly in the market. I know locally, it has become almost mandatory for every farmer to have the "bulletproof" 200 series v8 diesel, just because it's diesel..People on the patrol forum and some tuners Ive heard on a few 4wd shows etc claim that with the correct mods they can be made into a reliable engine. Using a educated guess id say that the problem for nissan was that doing the NADS mods to the zd30 would leave it short of meeting emissions and therefore was not an option. There's plenty with 500,000kms plus

[Vern]

Does anyone else find it strange that despite all the refinements over the years, 4 cylinder 4x4s still use 10-12 litres/100km and V8’s still use 14-22litrrs/100km?12.8L/100 thank you[emoji6]

May be it why a lot of companies are phasing out the diesels, far to costly amd not that efficient compared to petrols. I did here even landcruiser will be phasing out the 1vd.

[1nando]

Does anyone else find it strange that despite all the refinements over the years, 4 cylinder 4x4s still use 10-12 litres/100km and V8’s still use 14-22litrrs/100km?I've got twice as many cylinders, I'd say almost twice as much HP as the majority of the 4 cylinder diesels and it weighs a good 500-650kg more than most of them too. Then there's the fact that it's huge. Longer and wider than a 200 in fact, it's a big car.

If your 4 cylinder made the same power your fuel use wouldn't be to far of either!

[Vern]

90kw vs 298kw, so i would say 3 times the power

[Zeros]

Yup. Bigger donk = more power. But has economy really improved?

My 2014 Puma uses 1 litre per 100 km more than my 1998 Tdi.

I still find it hard to believe that a 5 litre V8 petrol will average only 12.8litres/100km.

[Vern]

Yup. Bigger donk = more power. But has economy really improved?

My 2014 Puma uses 1 litre per 100 km more than my 1998 Tdi.

I still find it hard to believe that a 5 litre V8 petrol will average only 12.8litres/100km.You don't have to believe it, but thats what it does, the vvt in the later models has improved economy by a couple of L/100, oh and its 5.6L engine thank you very much[emoji6]

[SeanMurr123]

Does anyone else find it strange that despite all the refinements over the years, 4 cylinder 4x4s still use 10-12 litres/100km and V8’s still use 14-22litrrs/100km?

I don't find it strange. While fuel economy has stayed the same, the amount of torque produced is much higher all through the rev range so the efficiency gains were put back into performance rather than frugality.

[Zeros]

You don't have to believe it, but thats what it does, the vvt in the later models has improved economy by a couple of L/100, oh and its 5.6L engine thank you very much[emoji6]

5.6L !!! Jeepers!

[ozscott]

My 4.6 high comp V8 Rover in a very heavy D2 fully laden gets 13.5 liters per 100k on a long highway run (lift, big chunky tyres, roof rack) so a 5.6 with a hell of a lot of tech in a similar weight or slightly heavier should get 12 or so on the highway. Can easily see that. Small diesels when heavily laden are not a thing of beauty.

Cheers

[loanrangie]

Modern petrol motors almost match the diesels, in a small car I wouldn't bother with an oil burner. Once you get over 2 ton the diesels come into their own but capacity still needs to match the mass it propels.

[VladTepes]

You don't have to believe it, but thats what it does, the vvt in the later models has improved economy by a couple of L/100, oh and its 5.6L engine thank you very much[emoji6]

Putting this in perspective though, that economy is achieved by shutting down 4 of the 8 cylinders when not required.

[ozscott]

Modern petrol motors almost match the diesels, in a small car I wouldn't bother with an oil burner. Once you get over 2 ton the diesels come into their own but capacity still needs to match the mass it propels.Yep anyone who buys a diesel Golf over a petrol Mazda 3 for eg and thinks they are ahead in real world economy needs to sit down and think some more.

Cheers

[1nando]

Putting this in perspective though, that economy is achieved by shutting down 4 of the 8 cylinders when not required.Wrong. The vk56vd does not ever shut off any cylinders. What vvel (variable valve event lift) does is change the cam hight on the intake and exhaust side depending on throttle input. This is what allows the 5.6 to make 500nm at 1600rpm and when combined with direct injection instant power anywhere in the rev range. There is no need to ever ring it's neck

[goingbush]

The Petrol / Deisel argument is moot for me . The Deisel is dead as far as I’m concerned. And its not what your thinking,

The Deisel has so much crap on it , like the petrol of the 80’s. . The EGR , DPF & SCR. Have done it for me. . They have taken the reliability and long term dependability away from the Deisel. I’ll chose Petrol over Deisel every time now . But bring on Electrics.

[gromit]

The Petrol / Deisel argument is moot for me . The Deisel is dead as far as I’m concerned. And its not what your thinking,

The Deisel has so much crap on it , like the petrol of the 80’s. . The EGR , DPF & SCR. Have done it for me. . They have taken the reliability and long term dependability away from the Deisel. I’ll chose Petrol over Deisel every time now . But bring on Electrics.

Not a 4WD comparison but.....

I run a TDV6 in a Territory, it's my second diesel Terri.
Petrol 13.6 ltr/100 for work, wife gets it for the school run and 18 ltr/100 ! Sold at 220,000km
Diesel 8.4 ltr/100 for work, wife now gets around 10ltr/100 on the school run. Currently at 210,000km

No DPF but 2 EGR's which haven't caused any issues yet.

The general comments about economy not changing much have to factor in all the extra safety equipment & luxuries a modern car has to drag around with it. Maybe a weight comparison along with the fuel figures would give a better idea.

Just over 10 years ago I drove my Series I to Cooma & back and got about 13 ltr/100, at the time my petrol Territory was doing about 13.6 ltr/100 (Would have done better on a run to Cooma). More efficient but a huge weight difference.
This year I towed the Series I to Cooma and the diesel Territory averaged about 9.8 litres/100.

Diesel for me until a viable alternative for 6/7 people and a reasonable tow capacity. It'll come but not for a few years yet.



Colin

[Cannon]

Hilarious how these new Defender threads always end up here :)

Just thought I'd post figures for my 2011 D4 V8 5.0...for interest's sake.

This is since my last sevice.

Driving has been about 60% city 40% highway.

This is obviously not at the pump but I've found the usage figures to be about 5% out.

Enjoy :)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/XMfLVp6UENaMkNu6X8IESVk50Qy3KWZwPY6IeqiUwLJjPDx6J4 s9eO43126TTcD9_Qm99GC-LgTfWJoRtMb3HDdNHJZXBHBnnJCLNKUNbS2tM2FNmHlC64GQeA M3x8aNNpBC_gwTzn4dkFEQ-cgasC72_cXJeYkWlsccGc7Kc_ruIm_xInMZBlDvDx2HUfElx1U G6UCc04Nby0iLg3_35xZu9x7oXl4RT-y0HYirQjx9ed4OgRKjBT-s1ihsTsLh42oCGSAn6US5sBFxtEoulxsMF4r0APuSbw1OhhMat bKETiVbLLqaALdAXB1TtcjS-AzYR3-AEIbVyyl7aDgcKqNqQdEMOzZSjLoXZfinl2BTsWz9qr_Rt7TAG nDfocXOCUQd9QTZEQfEtUiXzAJ3JyQAKRVFSGLjgt_O8wzczCp 044iYldt6WKqFYcw22PkqH7YZWfQivz3DnuXoBkHjdw8ukkUVi _IRUgd3I6Rp5jo5YDTGVH4UScGaNNbAzGdo7EwvyJmgyCl18sl W4x7WfDYIKzuqnKg2ZmOceQIBF1r_5q_WjvMahuiEO1lqLTosX HHKf7eLW5eZAZkbCv3e7AJN2tdoRBxNVKHZtsyAGxjKjkPzpr_ DiGFWtpiOQ4g8Brx3R7GtIGExmFsDUDoOYa8pIs7vBGcrc9Ccc m8nSh3i09PYt-bcqqx81A=w1750-h1313-no

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[1nando]

Hilarious how these new Defender threads always end up here :)

Just thought I'd post figures for my 2011 D4 V8 5.0...for interest's sake.

This is since my last sevice.

Driving has been about 60% city 40% highway.

This is obviously not at the pump but I've found the usage figures to be about 5% out.

Enjoy :)

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https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/C__FMbnJE0g6aO8Lco0hRIPukeHshOdFTxDOF_dWdeaAe9ehZ2 qks125bjs3d1V8fB5nzBx59kXoIhrD_2tdIhpIwtfa014se2PX-tsNePimrod45TRb2OzSXH8kwOMzSofDGvLY6OgnqyVUB5t7vmh Gmqo3B8hz8Pq2mc7wTdMkVuWaF3H75tn0JViHk-fIycOCcDokhxUIdCdjLXSeRA5qdCFDN6E6VfqKcPcXRq7kuTce 4knKpMjjDjYJ0FaZW3JWMZVAj3cknT81cY9BjHg6z14XGmnXd0 6HuzOmcEUV2Q4ZijegOvLOaLR3zlzF7dummFWar0OfX5bHQZTb hjeHl64wRPdTGIZpjy5zUFFsZEYERfdJ49Ofp4H6EJYaNCm-pYQ72L8npL_pRvp9JNTdEelFMLE6NIPLYZZ5NaWFLzrYVNFDAt X_xDzCJwZ9rtY8CRxe9LSQq5NcCxVsZ1PypFrC2Daw_g0Ak_z1 Jl_GB7Yi8Z9CrzdwpIGnSVIZ3cSSGKg2xJemw9HEkfbgLlBYKq 6uFqi129_7P59kYFlUIfu1FobIj-zizOy8tbkRWXohLBEt03RYurOxZM1XQ5HyRIa8I1t2F9ACfatA z44fCKlh8zmdSakkC4Vm70zscZ_HeWbUEPhJUyoK1Cx5EzEZXC oaKJw8H74j1FS7Xf57xvM2JJ3mFnIJGg=w1750-h1313-noSpecs for those that appreciate extra info:
D4 v8 5L HSE
276kw
510nm
2473kg kerb weight

They're very good figures. I'd imagine you've had a big fat "0" in regards to fuel issues being a pertol???

[veebs]

Hilarious how these new Defender threads always end up here :)



Godwin's law - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law)

[1nando]

Godwin's law - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law)The way I see it a discussion will always veer off track at some stage.
Well back in this one I voiced my opinion as to what current vehicles I consider to be "hd" and in the same category as the old defender. As soon as I was asked to expand on my idea of "hd" the discussion was always going to go off on a different tangent.
The trick is bringing it back to the original topic; therefore the question remains as to what did we possibly learn from our tangent conversation?
Easy;
That pertol engines are more reliable than modern diesel engines to a degree simply due to the lack of emissions crap hanging off the engine and that everyone has their own opinion as to what constitutes fuel economy. Whilst most people hope the new defender is much like the old with a modern touch up I'd love a new one with a pertol v8 450hp/650nm and hydraulic suspension, 33s, big cargo bay and a minimum 800kg payload. That's never going to happen but eh...... wouldn't it be fun!
Judging by the pics we're going to get some watered down version of the original d4 that is bound to be a glorified school bus...MO!
Hope I'm wrong

[cuppabillytea]

We've all been fired up by photos of a Disco, taken in 2012.
We've been had yet again.

[SBD4]

Some more spy shots:
2020 Land Rover Defender SWB spy shots (https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/2020-land-rover-defender-swb-spy-shots)

[Zeros]

There may be some extra panel covers disguising the shape, but there's no escaping the small load space at the rear.... it's a bobtail Defender! Hmm

145970

[grey_ghost]

It's interesting that they have re-introduced the Series 1 bonnet catches! [biggrin][thumbsupbig][bigrolf][tonguewink][wink11]

[Zeros]

...Looking again at these supposed spy shots of the new Defender, I'm increasingly unimpressed. It looks like a small, chopped D4!

Unless there is a serious amount of fridge box cardboard padding over the new svelte Defender body, it is looking very lame to me.

I came across this quote by Solmanic on the G Wagen blog (because I was looking at how awesome the new G is while remaining faithful to the original) and it confirmed my thoughts about how hopeless Land Rover have been updating the extraordinarily iconic Defender. Their entire approach has been pathetic.

Well said Solmanic:
"This new model just highlights how badly Land Rover are cocking up their Defender replacement program. Here Mercedes have been able to produce a new vehicle that is unmistakably a G-Wagen but on a majorly overhauled platform, and bring it to market without a break in production. By contrast, Land Rover have stopped production of the original Defender, lost several commercial & military contracts in the process, have presented a weak prototype of the replacement that was universally panned, and still have no real advice on what the actual replacement will be or when it will be on sale! And this was the spiritual bedrock of their entire company."

[scarry]

Which proves LR don't give a rats about producing a Defender type vehicle.

All they want to produce,as i have said before, is Range Rovers in different shapes and sizes for the yuppy market.

Good luck to them,theres nothing we can do about it except move on to a vehicle that suits our needs.

As for heritage and soul,it will gradually disappear as well.

[rar110]

I think there’s a lot of packing to hide the real shape/appearance. I can’t see the new Defender having bonnet clamps.

But it’s what’s under the skin that will count. The motor will be at least EURO5.

Hopefully it has alloy mono body, auto TR and EAS or coil option, and squarish big cargo area with spare under the rear with option of 2nd wheel carrier. That will tick some boxes.

A single range broad spread auto 9 speed would be a winner IMHO. I’m sure there will be a hybrid at launch and full electric option down the track. It must at least take 18” wheels.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Didnt LR muck around with a 9 speed auto that had 3 low range gears included,, spruiking a single range vehicle that had low range capabilities?

[DiscoMick]

The Range Rover Evoque has a 9 speed auto.

[Zeros]

The Range Rover Evoque has a 9 speed auto.

In those Defender spy shots it doesn't look much bigger than an Evoque :) Especially if it's inside a fridge box!

[DiscoMick]

Are the spy shots the 3 door, so the five doors would be bigger?
I actually don't mind if the new Defender looks a bit like the D4, which I like.
It would certainly distinguish it from the curved shapes of the D5 and D Sport, which I also like, but for different reasons.
Range Rovers already have their own look.
People complain vehicles all look the same, so it would be good to have some variations in styling.

[scarry]

Didnt LR muck around with a 9 speed auto that had 3 low range gears included,, spruiking a single range vehicle that had low range capabilities?

The 9 speed ZF auto only suited vehicles with East/West engine position.

[4bee]

Which proves LR don't give a rats about producing a Defender type vehicle.

All they want to produce,as i have said before, is Range Rovers in different shapes and sizes for the yuppy market.

Good luck to them,theres nothing we can do about it except move on to a vehicle that suits our needs.

As for heritage and soul,it will gradually disappear as well.




He's right you know.



IMHO, the current range of Land Rovers are an insult to aesthetics.


They had a definitive shape in the P38 & were instantly recognised as Land Rover/Range Rover & surely all the latest "whizzbang" electronics are not necessary ( ie.'Tyre Monitors' I read about here giving trouble) FFS you can tell if your tyre is deflating & if you do a 1st Parade Inspection or kick around just like the early days you did with a S2 ) & from what I can gather from reading most of these posts are a huge pain in the bum. I often think my olde D1 Facelift was/is the last of the LR vehicles that could actually be worked on by the Owner with a modicum of mechanical knowledge, but of course the Stealers would object to that.

I know, I know, Yuppies wouldn't/couldn't do that.
Now days they all look the same, so what is the sales advantage? None.

Why should it take an exaggerated time to remove a plastic engine panel or change a light bulb that I have read about here from time to time?

Nope, I'm afraid they have lost the plot.

[TB]

With the official reveal apparently coming on the 27th (UK time), Christmas morning still feels like it's a couple of days away. But as I'm sitting here waiting for my kids to wake up – apparently there is something positive to be said about teenagers! – I'm reading some LR things and a thought occurs to me:

The Defender is said to be focused on reliability. Looking at those spy shots I notice the position of the muffler, transverse at the rear, and imagine what would happen if the tail dragged on a steep exit. Having recently had the rear plastic bumper damn near ripped off my D4 in a situation like that, I like the way the Defender muffler would act as a kind of bumper cum bash plate! Sure you don't want to smack it around too much, but it's OK if it gets a bit roughed up and ultimately it's expendable and easily replaced.

Merry Christmas, all.

[scarry]

With the official reveal apparently coming on the 27th (UK time), Christmas morning still feels like it's a couple of days away. But as I'm sitting here waiting for my kids to wake up – apparently there is something positive to be said about teenagers! – I'm reading some LR things and a thought occurs to me:

The Defender is said to be focused on reliability. Looking at those spy shots I notice the position of the muffler, transverse at the rear, and imagine what would happen if the tail dragged on a steep exit. Having recently had the rear plastic bumper damn near ripped off my D4 in a situation like that, I like the way the Defender muffler would act as a kind of bumper cum bash plate! Sure you don't want to smack it around too much, but it's OK if it gets a bit roughed up and ultimately it's expendable and easily replaced.

Merry Christmas, all.

So after 70 years they have.......no i won't go on[bighmmm]

[4bee]

With the official reveal apparently coming on the 27th (UK time), Christmas morning still feels like it's a couple of days away. But as I'm sitting here waiting for my kids to wake up – apparently there is something positive to be said about teenagers! – I'm reading some LR things and a thought occurs to me:

The Defender is said to be focused on reliability. Looking at those spy shots I notice the position of the muffler, transverse at the rear, and imagine what would happen if the tail dragged on a steep exit. Having recently had the rear plastic bumper damn near ripped off my D4 in a situation like that, I like the way the Defender muffler would act as a kind of bumper cum bash plate! Sure you don't want to smack it around too much, but it's OK if it gets a bit roughed up and ultimately it's expendable and easily replaced.

Merry Christmas, all.



ultimately it's expendable and easily replaced.

Maybe, but at what cost?

Have you tried to purchase a Genine LR Muffler Box lately?[bighmmm]

[scarry]

Maybe, but at what cost?

Have you tried to purchase a Genine LR Muffler Box lately?[bighmmm]

It just needs an ATP skid pan under it,all good.[tonguewink]

As long as accessories such as bars,etc, can be reasonably easily fitted,the vehicle will sell to the market i presume it will be aimed at.

And thats not only in Aus,also in other countries such as Africa,vehicles are fitted with these accessories.

It also needs to have a minimum amount of complicated electronics,and have sensible tyre sizes so off road LT tyres are easily available.

Hopefully,LR have listened to the market,if not it will be a flop.

Have they ever listened to the market?

Other manufacturers do,thats why they are the big sellers.

[4bee]

Yeah right!

Why do I have a mental picture in my head that the Dinosaurs at the top of LR Development are akin to Dickens like characters sitting in their heavily varnished/blackened cubicles with quill pen & head down & arse up not daring to utter a word in defence of good design?


Maybe it is just me?[bighmmm]

[Bohica]

146994

Hard to tell these are all getting kind of generic.

[RobA]

146994

Hard to tell these are all getting kind of generic.

Nope new Ford Exploder. 2019 Ford(R) Explorer SUV | 7-Passenger SUV | Ford.com (https://www.ford.com/suvs/explorer/)

Rob

[Homestar]

Nope new Ford Exploder. 2019 Ford(R) Explorer SUV | 7-Passenger SUV | Ford.com (https://www.ford.com/suvs/explorer/)

Rob

I think that's the point he was making - it looks very similar to the D5.

[scarry]

I think that's the point he was making - it looks very similar to the D5.

In fact if you removed the blue badge,and lobbed a Green Oval badge on it,know one would probably even bat an eyelid.

[Red90]

All SUVs look identical. It is a sad time for car design.

[goingbush]

just another Blob

[fitzy]

Only how many more sleeps ?

[SBD4]

Only how many more sleeps ?
two thanks to time zones[bigwhistle]

[fitzy]

🧐you’re right, I was getting a little excited early, like the kids waiting for Santa

[loanrangie]

I think that's the point he was making - it looks very similar to the D5.Looks more like a grand jerokee to me, doesn't have the rake of the d5.

[rangieman]

All SUVs look identical. It is a sad time for car design.
Funny we have 4wd`s in Oz and most of these dont look alike [wink11]

SUV is another Americanism quote i despise :2up:

[ozscott]

My kids have seen a few d5's and they didn't like it. One asked "what kind of sick joke are the Land Rover designers playing?"...funny and apt.

Cheers

[Dervish]

All we get today are more photos of the disguised mule and promises that 'all will be revealed in 2019'.

Land Rover Defender test prototypes in North America | Motor1.com Photos (https://www.motor1.com/photo/3714131/land-rover-defender-test-prototypes-in-north-america/)

[grey_ghost]

There are a few more articles out today but the same old ****. No official specs, photos, pricing or dates....

[4bee]

You do wonder how they can treat their Potential Customers with so much contempt?[bighmmm]

[goingbush]

The New 2020 Defender Off-Road! – Expedition Portal (https://expeditionportal.com/the-new-defender-off-road/?fbclid=IwAR0ZCEct_xi9rM0iaASs6vVCNSseAUabPftybN5X g8W9RHLsPHdio6F366o)

[lebanon]

[bigsad]First Official Pictures of New Defender, Confirmed for 2020 Sale in US | Alloy+Grit (http://www.alloyandgrit.com/2018/12/27/first-official-pictures-of-new-defender-confirmed-for-2020-sale-in-us/?fbclid=IwAR0AGcZeQcR5nW_t22TdKbBC70151IFjhEgxnj-C3uZRnljNAAt4qAVIdZ4)

[4bee]

What a crock! The writer must be living in Cloud Cuckoo Land & never read any feedback to LR.
[bighmmm]
The "Engineers" couldn't even get the D1-'Mk2' Lifting Dash & Dropping Headliner right despite all their so called expensive Global Tests.

[grey_ghost]

Unfortunately more tripe.. [emoji26]

[goingbush]

Americans are the most gullible people on the planet. They just lap this tripe up.

[Homestar]

Not sure why anyone would have expected anything more from LR to be honest. Until I actually see something from them with a release date I won't be convinced they will actually even build it.

[blackrangie]

Seriously soo many whingers on here

Reminds me of charlie and the chocolate factory kid, "I want my umper lumper (new defender) nowww daddyyy!! Haha.

[blackrangie]

Great article, not so much with the thread title.

Pretty much same thing happened moving from D2-D3 everyone thought the world was going to end as it wasn't a carbon copy of the D2.
Now the D3(especially the coiler) is known as one of the greats and well respected

[SBD4]

It was LR US that set the "27th" as a date of significance not LR UK so, there was never going to be anything significant in it.

The only place a reveal will take place is at a significant motor show and the only one of those that seems to fit the bill is the Geneva Motor Show in March (as mentioned in a previous article.).

[Slunnie]

I thought it was a good article too. I also agree that every evolution has improved on the previous. The spec sheets may not make you think it, but in practise they have improved. I have a decked out D2 with all of the kit and when I first went out with the D3 I was really surprised and impressed - the nay sayers thought they knew, but they didn’t. I’m really optimistic about the new Defender.

[101RRS]

Now the D3(especially the coiler) is known as one of the greats and well respected

You are joking aren't you? Surely you mean the D3 with air suspension - the coiler as standard is a bit of a dud - evidenced by the need to get it lifted to be competent offroad.

[101RRS]

But we have already seen all those pics - nothing new there.

[scarry]

LR didn’t have much of a reputation over there so it will have to be something very special for it to sell well.

Oh,and yes that D4 looking thing we have seen before.