Simpson washup

[gng1]

Hi all,

We did a Simpson desert crossing East to West a few weeks back now and then up through the centre and back towards Brisbane via Mt Isa and Longreach. The roughest bit was the last 10km before Mt Dare. We had two issues with the Defender (2012 2.2).

First, the air conditioner stopped working somewhere between Birdsville and Alice Springs. We only really noticed it approaching Tennant Creek where it was about 35 degrees outside (it had been freezing in the mornings in the Simpson desert). Got someone to look at it in Mt Isa; they said there was stone damage to the condenser. Would anyone have one in Mt Isa? (Met with laughter). Temporary solution: $22 fan bought at Autobahn to circulate some air. Would have been okay if the front flaps were still operational on a puma!

It seemed to be blowing hot air particularly from the driver's side vent at first, which made me think after reading some threads on here that the condenser may not be the issue. However, my mechanic has just confirmed it is the condenser, which is not a cheap part at $2550 for genuine or $1650 for Heller. Apparently the bullbar has to come off for access and I'm considering whether to put it back on as it is a bit heavy and the alternative to so do something about the suspension.

Second issue, I heard a wind noise doing 100km/hr between Barcaldine and Jericho and saw the amber engine warning light. I had a look and couldn't see any cracked or broken hoses or any leaking fluid. Contacted the RACQ. They got a chap from Jericho to contact me. He wanted to know what sort of engine it was and then said he didn't have the computer to read what was the fault and he'd have to get back to RACQ. Eventually a chap from Barcaldine came out with a flatbed. Couldn't see anything wrong and flat bedded it back to Barcaldine. Endured conversation on the way back (nice fellow) about how easy Toyotas are to work on... 24 hours later, despite having the fault cleared by the computer, its still tripping the warning light and going into limp mode. No crack in hoses etc visible. Local guy stumped. Put him on the phone to my mechanic. Ultimately the local guy concludes that without a 'smoke machine' he can't work out where the issue is and he doesn't have time to pull everything apart to work it out.

So, courtesy of RACQ, it was flat bedded back to Brisbane to my mechanic at no cost to me, and the RACQ also put my son and I on the Spirit of the Outback back to Brisbane (also at no cost), which wasn't a bad way to end the trip.

It has taken a few weeks, but the mechanical issue has now been fixed for a grand total of $328.75. It was the throttle body hose.

Now, I'm pretty philosophical about this; I'm just glad this didn't happen while in the Simpson desert. There is simply no way you would get over those sand dunes in limp mode. It also makes you wonder how such a little thing can bring a trip to an end, and how one might be able to get this diagnosed and fixed without having to send the Defender back to base on the back of a truck?!

[roverrescue]

In your particular case
No ECU reader will locate the actual fault, at best you’ll get a code
For loss of MAP (but you don’t need a computer for that because you could hear it)
Diagnosis was made by you - induction air leak.

Good ol process of elimination will eventually find the air leak... start at the turbo and work towards the inlet manifold. but you WOULD need a device to clear the fault once fixed

I’m guessing the bush mechanics couldn’t be bothered following the induction piping as opposed to any particular difficulty in doing it. The induction plumbing on one of their beloved Toyota 1VD eights would give them apoplexy if they were struggling with a tdci! Never mistake competence or lack there of for motivation.

The fact it only cost $300 to fix means a motivated mechanic found the leak in minutes then fixed it.

Glad your back safe. As Tombie says on here, vehicles with ECUs should have a means to Read and clear faults in their spare parts toolbox no different to a spare air/fuel filter and cable ties.

S

[DiscoMick]

Sorry to hear about your problems.
I like to tell mechanics its a Ford engine and gearbox, seems to make them much happier.

[Beery]

You could tell them its a two stroke rotary opposed piston engine and they'd believe you. Probably wouldn't encourage them to have a go at fixing it though.

[jon3950]

I had a limp mode incident last Christmas in the High Country, which could have ended the same way. Fortunately I had my IIDtool with me so was able to read the fault code and work out what had happened. Then I could clear it and continue on. Without it I’d have been limping out with great difficulty then flat-bedding it to Albury - on Boxing Day.

I think having the ability to read and clear fault codes is vital if going remote.

And, yeah, isn’t the road between Dalhousie and Mt Dare in a shocking state.

Cheers,
Jon

[scarry]

I had a limp mode incident last Christmas in the High Country, which could have ended the same way. Fortunately I had my IIDtool with me so was able to read the fault code and work out what had happened. Then I could clear it and continue on. Without it I’d have been limping out with great difficulty then flat-bedding it to Albury - on Boxing Day.

I think having the ability to read and clear fault codes is vital if going remote.

And, yeah, isn’t the road between Dalhousie and Mt Dare in a shocking state.

Cheers,
Jon

It was three yrs ago,and the road to Finke was worse[bigsad]

[POD]

A code reader is more necessary than a second spare tyre these days for remote travel. Some ability to interpret the reading to locate a problem is also helpful, but mostly the ability to clear a limp mode.
I had a stone go through my aircon condenser not long after buying the vehicle; genuine condenser was quoted in the thousands, aftermarket suppliers did not list one...HOWEVER I discovered that the late model TD5 defender has the same condenser and the aftermarket suppliers have that for a few hundred dollars. Ask a Natrad place to look up the TD5 Defender condenser, there will be a couple of different types and you want the latest of them.

[bee utey]

And, yeah, isn’t the road between Dalhousie and Mt Dare in a shocking state.



Was bad in 1996 too. Blew a shocker in the P76 but I carried a spare so no biggie.

[plusnq]

We had to limp out of the Simpson Desert in July this year in the D4. Went into limp mode a half day into the desert. Used the IID tool but no faults logged. Tried clearing regularly but would drop into limp mode within 50m. Also tried total battery disconnect, wait 30 mins and reconnect. Same event, no faults logged, even though in limp mode. Eventually after many hours of climbing dunes extremely slowly, we were on the flat into Birdsville when the error codes appeared. Took it to the mechanic as we could see nothing obvious. Neither could the three of them, in consultation with an LR specialist in Brisbane. Flatbed home for the D4 and flights for us. Turned out to be a seized CSO valve.

[bsperka]

What is a CSO valve?

[plusnq]

What is a CSO valve?


Compressor shut off valve. It is the secondary turbo isolation valve.

[MLD]

And, yeah, isn’t the road between Dalhousie and Mt Dare in a shocking state.



the road between Old Andado Station to Mt Dare makes the road from Mt Dare to Dalhousie a German engineered highway. The bull dust was extremely deep and was wallow after wallow of dust holes. I hit one too fast with windows down. I looked across at my wife to apologise for her unimpressed face looking back at me. The dust went over the bonnet and up the wind screen like crossing a deep river does to water over the bonnet.

[jackdef90]

How can anyone not know about the boost hose issue on puma’s, it’s been so well documented and is generally pretty easy to temporarily repair boost leaks unless they’re at the IC or manifold.
No offence to anyone but if your gonna go and to trips like the Simpson desert and put yourself into remote areas you need to know a little about what your driving and have a few patch kits for various stuff.

[gng1]

How can anyone not know about the boost hose issue on puma’s, it’s been so well documented and is generally pretty easy to temporarily repair boost leaks unless they’re at the IC or manifold.
No offence to anyone but if your gonna go and to trips like the Simpson desert and put yourself into remote areas you need to know a little about what your driving and have a few patch kits for various stuff.

Thanks for that. Not sure it was the boost hose issue that is so well documented. Might be. My skills and expertise are in other areas. But I'm told the hose replaced was an elbow and so maybe not one of the ones with the notorious issue?

I'm not a mechanic. A mechanic in a proper workshop and his helpers were unable to identify the problem during intermittent stuffing around over a 24 hour period ("its boosting okay"; "I can't see any tears or holes..." etc) before telling me to see if the RACQ would tow it home, so I don't know I'd be any better in the middle of the desert with the best tool kit and spare part collection going.

It really is bit much if the Defender is so unreliable that you have to skill yourself up to diagnose and fix problems that can't be worked out by someone who earns there living as a mechanic.

Without being too defensive: the French line in the Simpson Desert is relatively busy and we knew that to be case before heading off. I also had insurance to cover up to $30,000 for off-road recovery in the event of a mechanical breakdown that required assistance, the vehicle had just had its major 80,000 service, and I had basic tools and rescue tape.

But sure, I'd like to learn a bit more about what I'm driving - you offering?

[gng1]

We had to limp out of the Simpson Desert in July this year in the D4. Went into limp mode a half day into the desert. Used the IID tool but no faults logged. Tried clearing regularly but would drop into limp mode within 50m. Also tried total battery disconnect, wait 30 mins and reconnect. Same event, no faults logged, even though in limp mode. Eventually after many hours of climbing dunes extremely slowly, we were on the flat into Birdsville when the error codes appeared. Took it to the mechanic as we could see nothing obvious. Neither could the three of them, in consultation with an LR specialist in Brisbane. Flatbed home for the D4 and flights for us. Turned out to be a seized CSO valve.

How'd you get up those dunes in limp mode? Must have been a challenge!

What's a IID tool? Is that the same as the Nanacom?

[gng1]

A code reader is more necessary than a second spare tyre these days for remote travel. Some ability to interpret the reading to locate a problem is also helpful, but mostly the ability to clear a limp mode.
.

Is it possible to clear the fault by locking and unlocking five times?

[Rolly]

How can anyone not know about the boost hose issue on puma’s, it’s been so well documented and is generally pretty easy to temporarily repair boost leaks unless they’re at the IC or manifold.
No offence to anyone but if your gonna go and to trips like the Simpson desert and put yourself into remote areas you need to know a little about what your driving and have a few patch kits for various stuff.

Trouble is, where do you start and where do you stop!
So far on mine (2015 M.Y Puma), Ive had a replacement clutch, replacement rear Diff, output shaft, aircon condensor/thermostat.
Whilst I've always fixed and serviced the vehicles i own(including a Series II, this Defender has been the most unreliable,...............all of these issues with a new car!

Don't get me wrong , I absolutely love the vehicle and how capable it is but when 'she who must be obeyed' wonders if it'll break down again on the next trip ,..........lets just say a trend is emerging!!!

[DiscoMick]

Thanks for that. Not sure it was the boost hose issue that is so well documented. Might be. My skills and expertise are in other areas. But I'm told the hose replaced was an elbow and so maybe not one of the ones with the notorious issue?

I'm not a mechanic. A mechanic in a proper workshop and his helpers were unable to identify the problem during intermittent stuffing around over a 24 hour period ("its boosting okay"; "I can't see any tears or holes..." etc) before telling me to see if the RACQ would tow it home, so I don't know I'd be any better in the middle of the desert with the best tool kit and spare part collection going.

It really is bit much if the Defender is so unreliable that you have to skill yourself up to diagnose and fix problems that can't be worked out by someone who earns there living as a mechanic.

Without being too defensive: the French line in the Simpson Desert is relatively busy and we knew that to be case before heading off. I also had insurance to cover up to $30,000 for off-road recovery in the event of a mechanical breakdown that required assistance, the vehicle had just had its major 80,000 service, and I had basic tools and rescue tape.

But sure, I'd like to learn a bit more about what I'm driving - you offering?

Sounds like you did everything reasonable to prepare for the trip.

[plusnq]

How'd you get up those dunes in limp mode? Must have been a challenge!

What's a IID tool? Is that the same as the Nanacom?

It was an eye opener as to how slow you can go up them. It was a challenge with a couple being driven twice to take a different line as we just ran out of go. Speed was as low as 1kph on the top of some dunes. We just needed one snatch at the top of little red as it was so chopped up. The GAP IID tool is like a nanocom .

Diagnostic tool for Land Rover - Gap Diagnostic (https://www.gap-diagnostic.com/)

photos, on the hoist in Birdsville, Errors that were eventually thrown, limp mode in the Desert

[jackdef90]

Thanks for that. Not sure it was the boost hose issue that is so well documented. Might be. My skills and expertise are in other areas. But I'm told the hose replaced was an elbow and so maybe not one of the ones with the notorious issue?

I'm not a mechanic. A mechanic in a proper workshop and his helpers were unable to identify the problem during intermittent stuffing around over a 24 hour period ("its boosting okay"; "I can't see any tears or holes..." etc) before telling me to see if the RACQ would tow it home, so I don't know I'd be any better in the middle of the desert with the best tool kit and spare part collection going.

It really is bit much if the Defender is so unreliable that you have to skill yourself up to diagnose and fix problems that can't be worked out by someone who earns there living as a mechanic.

Without being too defensive: the French line in the Simpson Desert is relatively busy and we knew that to be case before heading off. I also had insurance to cover up to $30,000 for off-road recovery in the event of a mechanical breakdown that required assistance, the vehicle had just had its major 80,000 service, and I had basic tools and rescue tape.

But sure, I'd like to learn a bit more about what I'm driving - you offering?



They must have been pretty useless mechanics.

[big harold]

Thanks for that. Not sure it was the boost hose issue that is so well documented. Might be. My skills and expertise are in other areas. But I'm told the hose replaced was an elbow and so maybe not one of the ones with the notorious issue?

I'm not a mechanic. A mechanic in a proper workshop and his helpers were unable to identify the problem during intermittent stuffing around over a 24 hour period ("its boosting okay"; "I can't see any tears or holes..." etc) before telling me to see if the RACQ would tow it home, so I don't know I'd be any better in the middle of the desert with the best tool kit and spare part collection going.

It really is bit much if the Defender is so unreliable that you have to skill yourself up to diagnose and fix problems that can't be worked out by someone who earns there living as a mechanic.

Without being too defensive: the French line in the Simpson Desert is relatively busy and we knew that to be case before heading off. I also had insurance to cover up to $30,000 for off-road recovery in the event of a mechanical breakdown that required assistance, the vehicle had just had its major 80,000 service, and I had basic tools and rescue tape.

But sure, I'd like to learn a bit more about what I'm driving - you offering?

From what you have described it was the boost hose from the intercooler to the inlet manifold on the LHS of engine.
What was the fault code?
I have 2 2.2 Defenders and both have split this hose @60K.
It is hard to see the split without knowing where it is.
Will not bring up a code unless under load and revs.
I have a cheap code reader from Supacheap about $120 on special.
Good investment as I have cleared codes and have been able to keep travelling.
I had a low fuel rail pressure fault at 5am in the middle of nowhere while towing a trailer cleared fault 3 times before fuel warmed up enough to not bring up fault.
Mark

[martnH]

Yeah difficult to replace that little elbow hose too.
You will need to move the water pump or a few coolant hoses....

Thank you land Rover

[DiscoMick]

Silicone hoses are sounding better all the time.