What TDV6/SDV6 engine oil are you using?

[kelvo]

As the title says, with my Td5 it’s any easy choice of Penrite HPR Diesel 5, but what is the ‘best’ oil for the TDV6/SDV6 engines?

Penrite list three oils for the TDV6/SDV6 and Castrol say you need to all their tech department, which I haven’t done yet [bighmmm]

More specifically for my MY14 TDV6 (No DPF).

Thanks

[DiscoJeffster]

Follow the Ford specification to be sure you are using the right oil. If you have a DPF then their Enviro C4 5W-30 product is perfect. If no DPF then the fully synthetic 5W-30 suits.

No DPF product.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190106/5ba3547147d024dcf3bbd50d475e60f2.jpg

[BradC]

My indie recommended a 40 weight and apparently they use a Motul product in all the TD/SD engines.

I'm using the Enviro+ 5w40. Hangover from when it had the DPF and I've just stuck with it. It seems to sit somewhere between a thick 30 and thin 40.

[PerthDisco]

Crazy idea but why not use the oil spec specified in the owners manual?

[Grappler]

Ive been using this for in TDV6 2.7 and Puma 2.2. Both without DPF.
As well as FORD WSS-M2C-913C approval it has Jaguar/Land Rover STJLR.03.5003 approval

Total Quartz 9000 Future NFC 5W 30
QUARTZ 9000 FUTURE NFC 5W-30 (http://www.totaloil.com.au/automotive-lubricants/products-cars/pcmo_engine-oil/quartz-9000-future-nfc-5w30.html)

[DiscoJeffster]

My indie recommended a 40 weight and apparently they use a Motul product in all the TD/SD engines.

I'm using the Enviro+ 5w40. Hangover from when it had the DPF and I've just stuck with it. It seems to sit somewhere between a thick 30 and thin 40.

I don’t risk using anything other than the spec as defined by LR given the propensity for crank failures in these engines. This may mean I’m actually adding more risk, but I’ll stick with the 30 weight and change it more often. I’m now down to 10k services versus the factory 24k which the previous owner followed.

[SeanC]

I use Valvoline Synpower FE Full Synthetic Engine Oil 5W-30.

It's what my indie used before I started doing the services myself.

[BradC]

I’m now down to 10k services

I do 10k or 12 months unless I've been towing hard, in which case it's 6 months. I haven't hit the 12 month limit yet and if it's getting within the projected trip distance I'll do it before I go. I don't think I'll ever be comfortable with extending oil change intervals > 10k in a Diesel.

I had a look at the specs when I did my original search and the HTHS is so close between the specified Xw30 Castrol and the 5w40 Penrite that there is nothing in it.
My problem was when I originally looked for a viable oil I still had the DPF, and the Penrite was actually the best available fit in a full synthetic. Now I'm DPF free I could potentially change it up, but the Penrite also suits my other vehicles so I'll stick with it.

[kelvo]

Crazy idea but why not use the oil spec specified in the owners manual?

Not crazy at all. I know my engine (MY14 TDV6) needs to be 5W/30 and meet specifications WSS-M2C913-B or C. But as the saying goes ‘Oils ain’t oils’.

Maybe I should have asked “What 5W/30 engine oil, that meets specifications WSS-M2C913-B or C, are you using in your MY13 onwards TDV6/SDV6 engined Discovery”

[DiscoJeffster]

Let’s be honest, no one here can confidently and empirically say any oil is better than another other than those testing their oil, and even that isn’t a true comparison as there’s no baseline data. They can say though that their choice of oil is at least not bad. At the end of the day, if you stick to brands that meet the requested specification you’re pretty likely to end up with an oil with the correct additive pack included as the engineers designed it for. If you then change it more regularly then you’re likely to be a happy camper. Anyone who tells me Mobil this, Castrol that are generally falling for marketing.

TBH I’d use any oil that meets the Ford specification that is best value at the time I need it. Maybe I’m a simple man these days?

[ATH]

I use Penrite C4 Enviro + 5/30w at 10K as did the independent for it's 20K first official service. Then again at 30K I did it myself plus of course the filter changes. 40K done at a different indie (as my preferred one never rang me back) and they charged me double the price for using the same oil I did buying if from Supacrap.
They told me it was "special oil" as they normally use 5/40w but as mines still under warranty they'd use the 5/30w.
Same with all the filters..... I buy them cheaper from the stealer would you believe?
Then to rub it in 150 bucks per hour plus GST.......
I'm tempted to do the servicing myself but if the apparently slightly possible crankshaft does break I don't like my chances of arguing my experience in court. :(
AlanH.

[Ean Austral]

Penrite 5w 40 for the last 130,000ks changed at a maximum 10,000km intervals , usually less as the car usually does about 100km/week unless we are touring around. Not sure what oil the car ran before we bought it .


2008 TDV6 D3

Cheers Ean

[Discodicky]

I use Penrite Enviro + C1 for my 2013 TDV6 with DPF and Valvoline FE30 for my son's 2008 D3 with 2.7 V6
Most important to use the correct oil when fitted with a DPF
We change oil/filter every 10k.
Be careful when using a 5W-40 could be a trifle heavy.

As has been said, simply use any oil which complies with the FORD spec, and of course FULL Synthetic.

"oils ain't oils"

Incidentally, FYI, just bought a MANN oil filter for the TDV6 for $16 from British 4WD just around the corner from me, and also a Genuine, for just over twice that amount so I could compare.
Both filters have identical stampings and markings on the media (a flash word which they use for the paper) and are made in Czech Republic.
So the Genuine (p/n LR013148) is a MANN (p/n HU826X)
The MANN p/n for the 2.7 V6 is HU934/1X

MANN & HUMMEL to be precise, but called MANN.
Cheers,

[Discodicky]

FYI, further to my comment re oil filters, I forgot to say that my 2013 TDV6 had been fitted with a REPCO oil filter P/n R2729P
cheers,

[Eric SDV6SE]

Penrite C4 5W30 every 10K kms or 6 months. I now do all oil services myself, I buy air, pollen, oil and fuel filters from Rimmer Bros, usually in lots of 4 or so to have them on hand.

Next service in 6 months, may change to Penrite C1 as I don't have a DPF and the C1 has a slightly lower ash rating. Both are Ford / LR approved.

I like and usePenrite, I guess it's like a religion

[DiscoJeffster]

Penrite C4 5W30 every 10K kms or 6 months. I now do all oil services myself, I buy air, pollen, oil and fuel filters from Rimmer Bros, usually in lots of 4 or so to have them on hand.

Next service in 6 months, may change to Penrite C1 as I don't have a DPF and the C1 has a slightly lower ash rating. Both are Ford / LR approved.

I like and usePenrite, I guess it's like a religion

Without the DPF then I understand the fully synth product I posted earlier aligns to the spec without paying for a low ash product aligned to DPF.

FULL SYNTHETIC 5W-30 | Penrite Oil (https://www.penriteoil.com.au/applications/car-4wd/engine-oils/full-synthetic-5w-30/specifications#/)

[WALRDS]

Using the Penrite Enviro+ 5w40 as recomended by the indi here in Perth. Driving an SDV6 no DPF
they have used it for years with no issues.

[kelvo]

I use Penrite Enviro + C1 for my 2013 TDV6 with DPF and Valvoline FE30 for my son's 2008 D3 with 2.7 V6
Most important to use the correct oil when fitted with a DPF

Are you sure you have a DPF fitted to your 2013? I was under the impression MY13 onwards did not have a DPF fitted. I know my MY14 does not have one fitted.

I called Castrol technical, who insisted that mine will have a DPF and their database did not list a Discovery 4 without a DPF at all.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Are you sure you have a DPF fitted to your 2013? I was under the impression MY13 onwards did not have a DPF fitted. I know my MY14 does not have one fitted.

I called Castrol technical, who insisted that mine will have a DPF and their database did not list a Discovery 4 without a DPF at all.

There's other posts on here regarding DPFs. Check the VIN, the decoding will tell you if the car was issued with a DPF or not. Otherwise a quick look underneath will tell you it's quite a large can, not hard to miss.

I know for a fact that my SDV6SE MY11 did not come out with a DPF.

[Discodicky]

My MY2013 (August build) TDV6 was at the local LR Hobart dealer having the Rego inspection done (I bought it interstate from Canberra) and whilst there I asked them to confirm if it had a DPF which they confirmed.
Hence why I buy the Penrite Enviro +C1 5W30 which is the low ash oil they advise when a DPF is fitted. According to Penrite you can also use that oil in a non DPF engine.
I would change my sons D3 2.7 V6 over from the Valvoline but the V Synpower FE30 is such a good oil I won't change as its not good practice to keep changing engine oil brands/viscosities.
It is asking for oil usage problems.
I used the V Synpower FE30 in my old 2009 RRS TDV8 for 70k odd and it was excellent, but is not suitable for a DPF.

[PeterJ]

Fuchs oil Titan GT 1 Pro
C1 5W-30 ACEA-C1, I have talked to Fuchs tech department and cross checked the spec.
It's ok.
I have been using it since new in my MY13 no problem
Peter

[Celtoid]

There's other posts on here regarding DPFs. Check the VIN, the decoding will tell you if the car was issued with a DPF or not. Otherwise a quick look underneath will tell you it's quite a large can, not hard to miss.

I know for a fact that my SDV6SE MY11 did not come out with a DPF.

The big give away is the smell! A DPF fitted car is very low on odour and in fact my old D4 had a slightly sweet smell. My MY13 has no DPF and the stench is very strong on start up.

[Grappler]

Another way to know if you have a DPF without leaving the drivers seat, is to observe the startup instrument light test. If the DPF icon illuminates during the test it has a DPF or v.v.
Attached is a generic DPF icon. The Landrover DPF icon may be similar but with a "wind gust" graphic overlayed

[Discodicky]

Are you sure you have a DPF fitted to your 2013? I was under the impression MY13 onwards did not have a DPF fitted. I know my MY14 does not have one fitted.

I called Castrol technical, who insisted that mine will have a DPF and their database did not list a Discovery 4 without a DPF at all.
Kelvo,
You are correct. I just remembered to slide under my MY2103 TDV6 to confirm and it does NOT have a DPF!
Obviously the local dealer fella was guessing or "assuming" when he told me it did have one!
I can continue to use the Penrite Enviro +C1 as it says it's suitable for DPF and non DPF.

[DiscoJeffster]

Kelvo,
You are correct. I just remembered to slide under my MY2103 TDV6 to confirm and it does NOT have a DPF!
Obviously the local dealer fella was guessing or "assuming" when he told me it did have one!
I can continue to use the Penrite Enviro +C1 as it says it's suitable for DPF and non DPF.

It’s true you can, though you can generally get the non-DPF version cheaper, more often.

[PeterOZ]

I do lots of short trips hence change my oil and filter every 7500km

Currently using Castrol Edge Professional Long Life III 5W-30 but have been advised the Castrol Magnatec A5 5W-30 is a better oil for my purpose.

Oils aint oils Sol . . .

147541 147542

[Staf]

This year I choose to buy a 2nd hand Disco 4; TDV6 Ford Lion engine, auto, with e-diff, without DPF and about 165,000k on it.

The issue of engine oil had to be resolved - the dealer who’d serviced it for years was far away and I decided to do intermediate oil changes myself at 6 month/10,000k intervals - that meant deciding on an oil.
I researched the available oils and looked at Penrite. On their Website they recommend several alternate oils depending on whether you look up ‘Ford’ or ‘Land Rover’. Remember, we are looking at the same engine and the same original specs; M2C913-B.
Working on the principle that oil technology improves over time, even though the engine remains the same, I decided to ask Penrite why they recommend both 5W-30 and 5W-40 for the same engine. By the way this evolution happened with tyres too - it’s possible to now buy good A/T tyres in 265/60-18 which were not even on the horizon when the car was new. So I wrote off to Penrite and got really quick and thoughtful response which I set out below.


Question to Penrite:
“I have a Land Rover Discovery 4 with the Ford Lion TDV6 2.7l Diesel engine. It's done 175,000k without trouble but I'm hoping to get 350,000+k So I'm looking at which oil to use and Penrite recommend different oils depending on whether you search for 'Ford' or 'Land Rover' The service agents stick to 5W-30 in whatever brand they choose to stock but if I read your oil specs carefully then the 5W-40 HPR5 seems to be a better oil?
Or is it not?
Does this 'modern' oil have superior characteristics than the original 5W-30? I imagine oil technology evolves over time, whereas the original TDV6 engine is locked in it's time.
Am I correct to choose the 5W-40 HPR5 full synthetic oil?”


Answer from Penrite:
“This engine of yours specified an oil meeting a Ford specification known as WSS-M2C913-B. This specification is for a particularly formulated 5W-30 oil, based on an industry specification known as ACEA A1/B1, which is now obsolete and replaced by ACEA A5/B5, Knowledge Centre | Penrite Oil (http://www.penriteoil.com.au/knowledge-centre/Specifications/194/ACEA-Service-Classifications/364), as well as some additional Ford tests.
This is an old specification, and has been superseded but sticking to the 913-B requirement, HPR 5 is deemed suitable for use. It does not technically meet it, purely because it is thicker (5W-40) but we have been recommending HPR 5 for these applications for ages. The 5W-40 viscosity grade, being a little thicker when hot, means that it may suit your car better, especially with the kms it has done now and the kms you wish to get to in the future, if this makes sense.”


Attached are a few screen shots of the spec sheets for both full synthetic 5W-30 and HPR5 5W40 oil. This latter oil is a modern oil and meets and exceeds the now superseded specs for the Ford TDV6 engine. Generally, the new oil is touted as superior all round. The ‘catch’ is that it’s an SAE40 and not SAE30. Is this an issue? Well, I’m in Queensland and the coldest it gets for most of the year is 20 degrees and the warmest ambient is 40 degrees. Given that the engine has done 175,000k now I think it can handle SAE40 oil without locking the slippers up on the crank.


Also: I’d run a friction modifier in an old Kia Diesel that I sold and I couldn’t believe the difference it made so I looked into friction modifiers for the TDV6 and came up with a mining industry supplier calling themselves Cost Effective Maintenance (https://costeffective.com.au). I called them and they talked lot of sense. Their product is not available via retail outlets so I dropped into their only office in Brisbane and kicked off with Flushing Oil Concentrate and AW10 Antiwear.
To use the FOC I did a ‘double oil change’ - dropped the old oil, put in new oil, added the FOC and then dropped that and replaced it with new oil and AW10 Antiwear. A couple of months later the dipstick is decided cleaner, not ‘black’ like usual diesel oil, so I'll continue doing this every 6 months. The real test came when I dropped all the diff and transfer case oils; the addition of the AW10 Antiwear was noticeable immediately - even the faintest hint of gear noise ceased. So now I’m running 4 of their products in the Disco.


Conclusions:
I’ve decided that the Penrite HPR5 5W-40 (which I also run in an LS1 Gen3 V8) is ok in the TDV6 and that it meets the original specs, given that I’m in a hot climate with well used engine. In a cold climate I’d drop back to 5W-30. I’m also happy with my choice to use engine flushes and run AW10 friction modifier, which has no Tefflon or Ceramic additives in it either - drop the oil and you drop the friction modifier with it.
Photo of dipstick shows oil after 2 months city driving.


Hope this is of interest or value to anyone considering the issue of 5W-30 versus 5W-40 in ageing TDV6 diesel engines.

[PerthDisco]

From any Ford dealer rebadged Castrol specifically for tdv6 plus OEM Mahle oil filter.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191216/407dc17f009627dbbcc25d12eb42282d.jpg

[Discodicky]

I use Valvoline Synpower FE Full Synthetic Engine Oil 5W-30.

It's what my indie used before I started doing the services myself.

I used that Valvoline in my TDV8 RRS and it was an excellent oil.
In my D4 3.0 and my sons D3 2.7 I use Penrite Enviro + C1 5W-30 although they don't have a DPF but is still ok.
I intended to use the Valvoline in both, however the Penrite is easier to get locally for my location. (via REPCO)
I'd be a bit hesitant to use a 5W-40 oil due to it not being specced by LR.

[twr7cx]

Currently using Castrol Edge Professional Long Life III 5W-30 but have been advised the Castrol Magnatec A5 5W-30 is a better oil for my purpose.

I don't know how the Castrol Professional oils differ from the consumer offerings - is it just the quantity size or is it actually a different product?
Anyways, I noticed in the Castrol lube guide that for the 2011 - 2017 Ford Territory fitted with the TDCI (2.7L Lion TDV6 engine) the Castrol Magnatec Stop Start 5W-30 A5 or Castrol Magnatec 5W-30 A5 (unsure what the difference is between the Stop Star variant). However, for the early Discovery 4 vehicles fitted with the same 2.7L Lion TDV6 engine it's either Castrol Magnatec Stop Start 5W-30 A5 or Castrol Edge 5W-30 A3/B4 - no plan Castrol Magnatec 5W-30 A5. Makes me wonder why the Ford engines don't have the Edge option and the LR D4 doesn't have the plan Magnatec version listed?
If we then go back further, the 2007 - 2009 D3 with the same engine only lists both the two Castrol Magnatec oils and no edge.
But the - 2006 D3 again with the same engine does not list either Magnatec option, but has two Edge options - Castrol Edge 5W-30 A3/B4 and Castrol Edge 0W-40 A3/B4.
Very strange - more so since from what I understand Castrol were involved with LR in specing the oil for this engine?

I believe that our D4 2.7 TDV6 currently has Penrite 5W-30 in it (whatever was listed in their Lube Guide) - this was because I too have a preference for Penrite oils (might be due to my Td5 having used it always too). At next service I'll be changing to Castrol Edge though. The Penrite won't have been in for very long but I've inhereted 4 x 5L bottles of Castrol Edge 5W-30 A3/B4 so might as well use them. I don't know what was used in the engine prior to our ownership anyways, but being that it's service history is mainly factory services it's likely that it was Castrol product.


On a side note: for those buying/using Penrite. Note that Repco and Penrite have a deal where a lot of Penrite products sold through Repco outlets have a different name - same product and specs but slightly different name. There's usually details on the Penrite website that somewhere in the products description blurb it will say something like called 'x' at Repco etc.

[crawal]

Ive been using this for in TDV6 2.7 and Puma 2.2. Both without DPF.
As well as FORD WSS-M2C-913C approval it has Jaguar/Land Rover STJLR.03.5003 approval

Total Quartz 9000 Future NFC 5W 30
QUARTZ 9000 FUTURE NFC 5W-30 (http://www.totaloil.com.au/automotive-lubricants/products-cars/pcmo_engine-oil/quartz-9000-future-nfc-5w30.html)

Same here , use it my sons FG also

[twr7cx]

Also: I’d run a friction modifier in an old Kia Diesel that I sold and I couldn’t believe the difference it made so I looked into friction modifiers for the TDV6 and came up with a mining industry supplier calling themselves Cost Effective Maintenance (https://costeffective.com.au). I called them and they talked lot of sense. Their product is not available via retail outlets so I dropped into their only office in Brisbane and kicked off with Flushing Oil Concentrate and AW10 Antiwear.
To use the FOC I did a ‘double oil change’ - dropped the old oil, put in new oil, added the FOC and then dropped that and replaced it with new oil and AW10 Antiwear. A couple of months later the dipstick is decided cleaner, not ‘black’ like usual diesel oil, so I'll continue doing this every 6 months. The real test came when I dropped all the diff and transfer case oils; the addition of the AW10 Antiwear was noticeable immediately - even the faintest hint of gear noise ceased. So now I’m running 4 of their products in the Disco.


Conclusions:
I’ve decided that the Penrite HPR5 5W-40 (which I also run in an LS1 Gen3 V8) is ok in the TDV6 and that it meets the original specs, given that I’m in a hot climate with well used engine. In a cold climate I’d drop back to 5W-30. I’m also happy with my choice to use engine flushes and run AW10 friction modifier, which has no Tefflon or Ceramic additives in it either - drop the oil and you drop the friction modifier with it.
Photo of dipstick shows oil after 2 months city driving.


Ok, I'll bite. Why worry about what oil you're using and what specs it meets if you're then going to mix in some other third party product that alters it? If it's now been modified then it possibly no longer meets the specifications that you've just been looking for - the advise you received from Penrite is also null and void as it relates to their actual product in it's intended format not modified! The manufactures of the oils have gone to great lengths to develop the product to its particular needs and specifications for that purpose. What lab research and development have the additive companies really done to prove that their product is superior that the manufacturer specified requirements - I can't imagine that their R&D budget is anything compared to that of the big oil companies. Aside, if their products were so superior, why wouldn't the vehicle manufacturers and big oil companies be taking advantage or and incorporating them in themselves?

Aside from the fact that that company in general just raises red flags. From the name of Cost Effective Maintenance, their whole existence seems to be about trying to convince you that you need their product and should drink the Kool-Aid. I'd suggest that their marketing budget is far larger than the R&D budget! A quick browse of their website and it would seem that they've got some additive or flush product that will fix almost any of your vehicle problems from an overheating Diesel engine to unleashing more power! The only think I couldn't find was an additive to fix a faulty starter motor...

It's great that you've got cleaner oils, but I would be wondering why? I'm no expert, but my understanding is that engines produce carbon and soot. It has to go somewhere. Normally that's trapped in the engine oil, turning it black, and then comes out with that oil during the drain and change. If your oil is no longer going black then where is that soot going now? It's unlikely that the engine is no longer producing it. That would worry me as surely it's much better having it trapped in the oil where you know and expect it to be?

We're blessed on this website to have a technical oil expert that frequently responds and shares his knowledge. A quick site search I found many replies from rick130 where he was hesitant on the additives and flushes for various reasons. I'd suggest it would be in your interest to take a look and read yourself and perhaps even see if he'd have a chat to you about it if you have questions.

Personally, I would suggest rather than mixing in additives and risking running improper spec lubricants, you'd be much better off taking that extra money and just reducing your oil change intervals. That way you ensure that you run the correct product and will ensure it's changed before breakdown or failure occurs.

[DiscoJeffster]

^ I’ve been waiting for someone else to take it on. Thanks! You’re 100% correct. Oil is designed to suspend particulates and stop them settling in the engine somewhere creating lumpy deposits and scale-like build up. A dirty oil is a good oil. A burnt oil (also dark) is bad, but you can smell that and that’s not going to happen in this vehicle.

Remember the good old days and Slick 50? Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

[shanegtr]

^ I’ve been waiting for someone else to take it on. Thanks! You’re 100% correct. Oil is designed to suspend particulates and stop them settling in the engine somewhere creating lumpy deposits and scale-like build up. A dirty oil is a good oil. A burnt oil (also dark) is bad, but you can smell that and that’s not going to happen in this vehicle.

Remember the good old days and Slick 50? Hahahahahahahahahahahaha
I wouldn't say that oils will stop suspended particles from settling in the engine - gravity will do a good job of that on its own. What an oil detergents actual job is to coat soot particles to stop them amalgamating with other.
I am not a fan of additional additives in oil for a couple of reasons, main one is that you dont know if the additive you are adding will negatively affect the additive pack thats already in the oil.

I have also moved on from the ford spec oils years ago, but I run with valvoline oil. Oil sample results show a reduction in wear contamination with valvoline synpower 5W40 over my previously used synpower FE 5w30

[Staf]

Black is Better?

1. Additives.
All Oil manufacturers use additives.
All Oil manufacturers offer additional additives at a cost which would price their basic oils out of the market - between $15 and $30 a pop and this the main reason you'll not see them.

LiqiMoly (German) offer a ceramic additive, which adheres permanently to engine parts.
Nulon offer two different additional friction modifiers, one of which is a form of teflon, which adheres permanently to the engine parts.
Companies like ProLube will manufacture oil to custom specs, such as for drag racing engines, and will also use friction modifiers.
AW10 is neither ceramic, nor teflon based.
Friction Modifiers inhibit overheating of oil - the whole idea of oil is to reduce friction.

2. Flushing.
If the argument that dirty oil is good oil was valid then it could be argued that brand new diesel engines which show clean oil for quite some period of time are inferior to older engines showing dirty oil.
This is false argument.
New Diesel engines run clean, and stay fairly clean if oil is changed regularly, and only go very dirty and stay dirty, when they really are dirty.
Older Diesel engines do not 'improve' as they get dirtier - they simply have more residual crap in the engine than an oil change can get rid of, which is why when you change the oil it immediacy goes black again - it has to go black because of the years of residual carbon and crap you keep and cherish in your half clapped dirty Diesel engine.
This is precisely why owners with older engines choose to change oil at closer intervals - because they can see its running cleaner, not dirtier.
Clean oil is a sign of a cleaner engine - not less functional oil.

3. Conclusions:
Whist there are risks associated with flushing a very dirty, older engine, there is also no benefit in running dirty oil - if you can keep an engine, especially a diesel, in fairly clean condition by dumping the crap each time you do a change it is inherently better than keeping your engine oil permanently dirty.

Whilst there pros and cons with various friction modifiers all oil manufacturers use them - oil's ain't just oil.
Nobody chooses tyres with poorer antique compounds of years gone by, or batteries that you have to top up by hand with distilled water every two weeks; and when your heart/liver/kidney/eyesight falters who wants surgery 'as per the original' wooden handled bone saw specs of 1950 that you desperately called for on a 'party line' because you are 'old school'...?

Technology changes; in cars, tyres, phones, medicine and dare I suggest it...even in oils.
Whilst its important to be careful and do research the option to use 10 year old oils and keep your engine oil as black as a dark well at midnight is always there.
To say that your engine oil is working better when it's black is to say that it's better oil when old than when it was new.

Cheers.

[DiscoJeffster]

Oh my. This is gold. ^ [emoji23]

A fool is easily parted with his money.

I’ve got my Brocky Polariser for sale - I’ll send you the link.

[shanegtr]

It fairly hard to determine oil condition from colour alone.

[DiscoJeffster]

It fairly hard to determine oil condition from colour alone.

Yep. I’d love to see some independent before and after plus long term oil analysis of these various products

[twr7cx]

Staf I'm not biting this time. I think this is a case of you do you. I'm confident that your engine will let you know how much it appreciates your efforts in due course.

[DiscoDB]

Thought I would resurrect an old thread given recent discussions around 2.7 crank failures and specifically the spun bearing risk. My comments relate specifically to the 2.7TDV6.

I note some people use the Penrite Full Synthetic 5W-30. One thing to be mindful of is this oil gets very thin above 100degC. The Kinematic viscosity at 100degC is just below 10cSt.

If working the car hard in warm to hot weather the oil temp can hit 110-120degC, and at this temp the Penrite Full Syn 5W-30 can be as low as 6-8cSt. This oil may be OK for when the engine was new and still tight, but it is probably best suited for if you live in a cold climate area and the oil temp rarely gets above 90degC.

If sticking with a 5W-30 oil, then consider Castrol Edge A3/B4 5W-30. This oils spec is mid way between the Penrite Full Syn 5W-30 and HPR5 5W-40 and retains around 12cSt at 100degC.

Otherwise consider using Penrite HPR5 (5W-40) which has just over 14cSt at 100degC as this will give that little bit of extra buffer margin in hot weather. And it meets the Ford 913B spec.

And for added peace of mind, the specs for HPR5 at 100degC is very similar to the Total Quartz 7000 Semi-Synthetic 10W-40 oil which Citroen recommended for the 2.7 in “Temperate” to “Hot” climates.

The Penrite Full Synthetic 5W-30 looks to be a bit of an anomaly if the published technical data is correct as it is actually thinner at 40 and 100degC than HPR0 0W-30.

[TopEndThom]

My MY10 2.7 TdV6 lives in Darwin and I use the Penrite HPR5 5w-40. Purely on recommendation from the brains trust here.

Mine had an engine replacement in 2015 (well before my ownership). Unfortunately the reason wasn’t documented and I’ve not been able to track down the original owner, nor get the info from the Indy who did the work.

A brand new Ford Territory engine went in along with new turbo and intercooler.
Anyone know if there were crank or bearing improvements on that vintage engine?

[scarry]

A brand new Ford Territory engine went in along with new turbo and intercooler.
Anyone know if there were crank or bearing improvements on that vintage engine?

No one seems to know,but the Territory 2.7 Diesel engines seem very reliable if serviced correctly,with no apparent crank failures.
Same as 2.7 D4 engines.

[PerthDisco]

No one seems to know,but the Territory 2.7 Diesel engines seem very reliable if serviced correctly,with no apparent crank failures.
Same as 2.7 D4 engines.

Bearing failure which leads to crank failure in a sequence of steps

[TopEndThom]

No one seems to know,but the Territory 2.7 Diesel engines seem very reliable if serviced correctly,with no apparent crank failures.
Same as 2.7 D4 engines.

It goes well so fingers crossed. My oil and filter change interval is 7,500km which gives me more piece of mind.

[TopEndThom]

Bearing failure which leads to crank failure in a sequence of steps

I think Scarry was referring to nobody knowing if the Terry engine had updates or not.

[josh.huber]

Thought I would resurrect an old thread given recent discussions around 2.7 crank failures and specifically the spun bearing risk. My comments relate specifically to the 2.7TDV6.

I note some people use the Penrite Full Synthetic 5W-30. One thing to be mindful of is this oil gets very thin above 100degC. The Kinematic viscosity at 100degC is just below 10cSt.

If working the car hard in warm to hot weather the oil temp can hit 110-120degC, and at this temp the Penrite Full Syn 5W-30 can be as low as 6-8cSt. This oil may be OK for when the engine was new and still tight, but it is probably best suited for if you live in a cold climate area and the oil temp rarely gets above 90degC.

If sticking with a 5W-30 oil, then consider Castrol Edge A3/B4 5W-30. This oils spec is mid way between the Penrite Full Syn 5W-30 and HPR5 5W-40 and retains around 12cSt at 100degC.

Otherwise consider using Penrite HPR5 (5W-40) which has just over 14cSt at 100degC as this will give that little bit of extra buffer margin in hot weather. And it meets the Ford 913B spec.

And for added peace of mind, the specs for HPR5 at 100degC is very similar to the Total Quartz 7000 Semi-Synthetic 10W-40 oil which Citroen recommended for the 2.7 in “Temperate” to “Hot” climates.

The Penrite Full Synthetic 5W-30 looks to be a bit of an anomaly if the published technical data is correct as it is actually thinner at 40 and 100degC than HPR0 0W-30.

I teach apprentices about oils. I tell them to never trust penrite. The extra 10 is in the wrong place. It ****s me. This break im doing an oil pressure test on a 280k D4 3.0l at various temps to see what the pressure is. I'll happily share my equipment with a 2.7 owner for the same info.
Ultimately you want the oil thick enough to maintain pressure at heat. But, no thicker. Anything above the pressure set is bypassed to sump and counter productive. It would be a good group idea to test a few engines and come up with an appropriate oil spec for the masses

[scarry]

It goes well so fingers crossed. My oil and filter change interval is 7,500km which gives me more piece of mind.

You will be fine,never seen a D4 2.7 or Territory engine failure mentioned on here.

Its the 3L that is the culprit,even so its pretty rare,although as they get older i suppose the issue will become more common.

[DiscoDB]

You will be fine,never seen a D4 2.7 or Territory engine failure mentioned on here.

Its the 3L that is the culprit,even so its pretty rare,although as they get older i suppose the issue will become more common.

OK - I could not resist. A Ford Territory 2.7 test mule had a bearing failure at the launch. Ford claimed it was a one off event never seen before with this engine. 🤣🤣🤣

Turbodiesel Territory on Test (https://caravan.hemax.com/Reviews/4354/Turbodiesel_Territory_on_Test)

To be fair, the engine had not even been run in before it was loaded up with a Caravan on the back.

[DiscoDB]

I teach apprentices about oils. I tell them to never trust penrite. The extra 10 is in the wrong place. It ****s me. This break im doing an oil pressure test on a 280k D4 3.0l at various temps to see what the pressure is. I'll happily share my equipment with a 2.7 owner for the same info.
Ultimately you want the oil thick enough to maintain pressure at heat. But, no thicker. Anything above the pressure set is bypassed to sump and counter productive. It would be a good group idea to test a few engines and come up with an appropriate oil spec for the masses

Love a good experiment. Can’t want to see the results.

Never understood the Extra 10. Guess that is like dialling up 11.

I am fitting an oil pressure gauge to my D3. Only having an idiot light annoys me. Too high of an oil pressure when cold does worry me as well and was planning to assess if I should change back to 5W-30 for winter. During Melbourne winters, the oil temp rarely gets above the water temp.

With the Td5 when I was back in WA, I used to run a thinner oil in winter (HPR5D) and then changed to a thicker oil in summer (HPR10D) and this worked well for me.

[scarry]

OK - I could not resist. A Ford Territory 2.7 test mule had a bearing failure at the launch. Ford claimed it was a one off event never seen before with this engine. 🤣🤣🤣

Has there been one since?

That is in a Territory.

[DiscoDB]

On the Ford forum only a few failures reported. Much like the D4 2.7.

[shanegtr]

The Penrite Full Synthetic 5W-30 looks to be a bit of an anomaly if the published technical data is correct as it is actually thinner at 40 and 100degC than HPR0 0W-30.
Unlikely, would be a different base stock oil between the two. Viscosity modifiers work to thicken the oil at hotter temperatures (thicker than it would be without the additive) so the 0W/5W of the viscosity grade would tell me that you cant have the same base stock oil which is why the 100deg viscosity would be slightly different between the oils. SAE 30 100deg viscosity range specify viscosities between 9.3 - <12.5 cSt. SAE 40 12.5 - <16.3cSt

[DiscoDB]

Unlikely, would be a different base stock oil between the two. Viscosity modifiers work to thicken the oil at hotter temperatures (thicker than it would be without the additive) so the 0W/5W of the viscosity grade would tell me that you cant have the same base stock oil which is why the 100deg viscosity would be slightly different between the oils. SAE 30 100deg viscosity range specify viscosities between 9.3 - <12.5 cSt. SAE 40 12.5 - <16.3cSt

True - perhaps more of a marketing anomaly due to the way the grading works. It is just interesting that by 40degC, the 0W-30 Full Syn is already slightly thicker than the 5W-30 Full Syn. Obviously the 0W-30 oil can go to a lower cold starting temp.

Pity they don’t also publish the 0degC viscosity. It is what is happening between 0degC and 40degC that would insightful - especially with the use of multigrades.

[rick130]

Pity they don’t also publish the 0degC viscosity. It is what is happening between 0degC and 40degC that would insightful - especially with the use of multigrades.

Easy enough to calculate with a viscosity index calculator.

There's a couple of good online ones available

I've seen xW-40's with a lower visc in that range than xW-30's, it just comes down to base oil type and the amount (and type) of viscosity index improver used

[DiscoDB]

Easy enough to calculate with a viscosity index calculator.

There's a couple of good online ones available

I've seen xW-40's with a lower visc in that range than xW-30's, it just comes down to base oil type and the amount (and type) of viscosity index improver used

Yes good for estimating but the actual measured result at 0degC would still be good to see for comparison.

Castrol Edge A3/B4 5W-40 looks to be a good compromise option if you ignore not meeting the Ford Spec, but consider HPR5 as being too thick at cold start temperatures, and the 5W-30 oil as being too thin at hot engine temperatures (above 100degC).

The problem I have with the Ford spec is it is centred around US driven fuel economy targets at the expense of wear protection. It is also for new engines, not worn engines.

Can’t wait to get an oil pressure gauge fitted to see what is happening over summer and winter.

[incisor]

Castrol Edge

175684

Penrite HPR5

175685