If it was an EV world: .. Switching to Petrol Cars

[goingbush]

Now I can understand there would be resistance to the change

SwitchToPetrolCars – Medium (https://medium.com/switchtopetrolcars?fbclid=IwAR3G-rzQeqiKkM8eJnJJpRm-N2c3ryuMbunw6dhbcaOHUDdGvPY7ZkkfR2o)

[manic]

Jerkiness.. lol. Nice one.

Lihium battery packs are volatile. Pierce a fuel tank and you still need a spark. Pierce a lithium battery and you are toast.

Consider the number of ICE cars manufactured, and then all the massive lithium battery packs that would equal if we were in that alternate universe. Lithium batteries use finite resources, the explosive mining of which could have had a greater impact on the enviroment than sucking up oil did.

Then consider that all those cars would still have needed oil. Oil would still be a valuable resource without the petrol stations. With the worlds transport powered by lithium battery packs the resource wars would not have been comcentrated in the middle east. Perhaps Australia would have seen some action.

There are plenty of advantages with oil power over lithium power. Toxic fumes and co2 is the killer issue, and the reason why we need cars that do not emit. The build up of car fumes in congested urban areas has become unacceptable.

But if we effectivley force a whole new wave of private car ownership on a planet with billions of eligable humans and multi car households, we wont be solving any thing in terms of enviromental impact and resource scarcity.

Lets not pretend EVs are here to save the planet from environmental disaster. We need to check our numbers or completly change the way we live and consume way way less.

Sprawling mega citys will need to run transport as a service, no more private car ownership. This is the only credible solution going forward that I can think of. Zero emission automated vehicles built to simply take you from A to B . And if they cant crash, they could be made out of paper mache - right?

[goingbush]

Not sure Manic

EV batteries are not the same as Drone batteries.

Have a look, these are the exact Cells I used , I do have a spare one , where would you like me to pierce it ?


https://youtu.be/aQs7L5LmEss

[goingbush]

Jerkiness.. lol. Nice one.

Lihium battery packs are volatile. Pierce a fuel tank and you still need a spark. Pierce a lithium battery and you are toast.

done that one above



Consider the number of ICE cars manufactured, and then all the massive lithium battery packs that would equal if we were in that alternate universe. Lithium batteries use finite resources, the explosive mining of which could have had a greater impact on the enviroment than sucking up oil did.

who mentioned Lithium , If we were living in an EV world we would have a decent energy source don't you think. Eg Solid state , Calcium or Sodium batteries .

You have a short memory, Gulf Of Mexico , Exxon Valdes, GW1 oil fires , Indonesia , Malacca strait , Alaska , need I go on



Then consider that all those cars would still have needed oil. Oil would still be a valuable resource without the petrol stations. With the worlds transport powered by lithium battery packs the resource wars would not have been comcentrated in the middle east. Perhaps Australia would have seen some action.

There are plenty of advantages with oil power over lithium power. Toxic fumes and co2 is the killer issue, and the reason why we need cars that do not emit. The build up of car fumes in congested urban areas has become unacceptable.

as above



But if we effectivley force a whole new wave of private car ownership on a planet with billions of eligable humans and multi car households, we wont be solving any thing in terms of enviromental impact and resource scarcity.

Lets not pretend EVs are here to save the planet from environmental disaster. We need to check our numbers or completly change the way we live and consume way way less.

Sprawling mega citys will need to run transport as a service, no more private car ownership. This is the only credible solution going forward that I can think of. Zero emission automated vehicles built to simply take you from A to B . And if they cant crash, they could be made out of paper mache - right?

Agree with that one, to a certain extent. Well Paper Mache aint rainproof but it a hell of a lot tougher than Aluminium LandRover panels ( I had a Demolition Derby car that had Paper Mache panels . )

[grey_ghost]

One word - convince.
I have driven 2600kms in 24 hours (Uluru to Safety Beach in Victoria). How can I do that in an Electric vehicle?
Before you start screaming “range anxiety” - let me say that I would love an EV. There just isn’t one out there yet that suits me.

[goingbush]

One word - convince.
I have driven 2600kms in 24 hours (Uluru to Safety Beach in Victoria). How can I do that in an Electric vehicle?
Before you start screaming “range anxiety” - let me say that I would love an EV. There just isn’t one out there yet that suits me.


Have your read about the refillable battery tech, that will have a 5000km range ? Energy tech is developing exponentially , EV are not going to always be dependant on Lithium .

"Refillable" battery tech could allow electric cars over 5000km range | RenewEconomy (https://reneweconomy.com.au/refillable-battery-tech-could-allow-electric-cars-over-5000km-range-73636/)

Would you really not buy an EV just because you had to drive 24hours once ??

The most Ive ever driven in one go is Melbourne to Sydney but I take the train nowadays. When I'm touring I like to call it quits around 300km . EV will do me just fine.

[grey_ghost]

True, that particular trip was extreme. But I often drive long distances (Melbourne to Canberra and back, overnight). Melbourne to Sydney 30+ times.

Yearly I do outback trips (5,000km in 3 weeks). Which often require jerry cans (let’s face it, my 101 ain’t fuel efficient). But 400-700km between fuel stops is not uncommon

The above sounds extremely promising - I shall keep my ears open. Can’t wait. [emoji1303][emoji3]

[goingbush]

True, that particular trip was extreme. But I often drive long distances (Melbourne to Canberra and back, overnight). Melbourne to Sydney 30+ times.

Yearly I do outback trips (5,000km in 3 weeks). Which often require jerry cans (let’s face it, my 101 ain’t fuel efficient). But 400-700km between fuel stops is not uncommon

The above sounds extremely promising - I shall keep my ears open. Can’t wait. [emoji1303][emoji3]

Its not all bad, Looks like this EV you pointed me to has a couple of extra Jerry Cans on the roof rack [bigwhistle]

https://cdn.hiconsumption.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Rivian-R1S-US-Forest-Ranger-Edition-Electric-SUV-0-Hero-1087x725.jpg

[manic]

You cant dismiss the current issue with - battery tech will get better in future. Right now EV = lithium large scale. Until your fix it all battery tech comes along, we are considering a huge shift to massive lithium pack vehicles.

The article imagines an inverted reality where every car now is an EV and compares to current ICE. If you are comparing to current ICE you have to compare to current EV. Lithium EVs. I hope EVs get better power source/storage real soon because imagining 1 billion lithium pack evs on the road is not good.

[goingbush]

You cant dismiss the current issue with - battery tech will get better in future. Right now EV = lithium large scale. Until your fix it all battery tech comes along, we are considering a huge shift to massive lithium pack vehicles.

The article imagines an inverted reality where every car now is an EV and compares to current ICE. If you are comparing to current ICE you have to compare to current EV. Lithium EVs. I hope EVs get better power source/storage real soon because imagining 1 billion lithium pack evs on the road is not good.

Im not dismissing current battery tech.

The article in question at the start of the post was Hypothetical , . The battery chemistry is irrelevant to the hypothesis.

At the beginning of the 20th century there were more Electric Cars than Petrol, lets just pretend we were in a parallel universe and Electric won over Petrol, they would have moved on from Lead Acid & most certainly would not be with Lithium at this point. Now What if we lived in that EV world & there was a movement to switch to Petrol.

Whatever the case 1 billion Lithium EV's is certainly preferable to 1 billion ICE cars with 1 billion Lead acid batteries.

[manic]

Action @ 1.44

YouTube (https://youtu.be/WnZuMfq6kec)

Same type of cell found in Tesla battery packs. Tesla are currently manufacturing the best lithium packs in the game for energy density. More energy = more fire.

They ignite when pierced.

[manic]

Yes, all hypothetical. The article is nonsense.

I think lithium would have taken on much earlier in your hypothetical scenario.

There are over a billion ICE vehicles already. We are now hoping to add another billion EVs. From an enviromental perspective, its stupidity!

I would love to see more re-use and repurpose. But it's not going to happen, not while the masses are happy to buy a new version of the same thing year after year.

China had the one child policy, maybe we should have the one life one car policy. If it breaks, fix it. If it needs new tech, retrofit. If you get tired of it, walk.

[101 Ron]

I am not against electric vehicles and owned a road going one in NSW (1980s) before they become the new fad and been playing with them for a living ever since.
I find the video interesting..........I wonder how the short circult and damage tests go , not using a single 4 volt cell, but many cells jointed together to make 400 volts......................not very well.
Life cycle costs .........copper and other metals used not in the battery, but the vehicle.
Electric vehicles have been and still are more expensive to manufacture because of the need for more expensive materials.
The battery is the most expensive part of the vehicle and when that is due for replacing the vehicle becomes near worthless..........ie resale is poor.
I expect in time this will improve slightly.
Australias current electricty grid is not geared the handle a large number of electric vehicles and the cost of copper in smelting, mining electric for high cap recharging points never seems to be facted into the electric vehicle cycles for cost over,manufacture, full life, recycle, dispose, ect.
Not beening negative with electric vehicles...........just fairly pointing out it is not as green and sweet as it seems............but electric vehicles will have a good place in our future if it is not forced on to the transport system by taxing other methods and finds its way on a level playing field.
I know this a simple overal............just pointing out somethings which get glossed over and many more things good and bad can be added.

[101 Ron]

I would like like to point out that a litre of petrol is a storage system of energy which dense compared to many other ways of energy storage.
The problem is we currently cannot use all of the energy stored in petrol with current methods.......internal combustion motors etc.
Off the top of my head a litre of petrol has enought energy to get a small load to the moon.
A litre of petrol burns readily or can explode if the correct chemical conditions are present.
A battery is a energy storage system with less density than petrol, but electric motor can extract that energy more efficently than a internal combustion engine.
If a battery is made with energy density the same is petrol, that would be fantastic .................but because of that energy density the battery becomes like petrol to handle, but in a different way. ..............the battery wants to restore its self to its natural state which is discharged, if aged or damaged it becomes unstable.
It know this is simplistic..........but I hope you can see what I am getting at.
Now if we start talking about atomic energy and how the the pencil you write with has enough energy to blow of your hand if we could change its atomic density.

[101 Ron]

If you chase these old Photo bucket pictures from the links below you should be able to see my old Enfield Electric.
I think it was a 1974 model and the pic were then about 1985.
Like the electric vehicles today with Lith ion batteries it was possible to get the rear wheels to chirp or spin accelerating just off the mark with lead acid tech batteries.
It used a Compound wound DC motor.
48 volt system.
voltage switching for speed control with a combination of switching the motor from series to parallel windings.
rack and pinion steering, alloy body work on a steel tube space frame.
It had a house hold 240 volt power meter near the rear seat so you could workout overall 240volt Kw used.
I sold it on and the last I heard of it was that Giltraps museum purchased it.
It died something bad going up a hill due to the weight of the batteries of the time.
https://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p299/101Ron/ron%203/Scan0028_zpsd585143c.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/Scan0028_zpsd585143c.jpg.html)
https://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p299/101Ron/ron%203/Scan0029_zpscd6b3187.jpg (https://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/Scan0029_zpscd6b3187.jpg.html)
https://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p299/101Ron/ron%203/Scan0032_zps2489e2f1.jpg (https://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/Scan0032_zps2489e2f1.jpg.html)
https://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p299/101Ron/ron%203/Scan0033_zps7e91f013.jpg (https://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/Scan0033_zps7e91f013.jpg.html)

[101 Ron]

https://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p299/101Ron/ron%203/Scan0031_zpsbe9ec894.jpg (https://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/Scan0031_zpsbe9ec894.jpg.html)
https://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p299/101Ron/ron%203/Scan0030_zps1b504571.jpg (https://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/Scan0030_zps1b504571.jpg.html)
https://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p299/101Ron/ron%203/Scan0027_zps7499d512.jpg (https://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/Scan0027_zps7499d512.jpg.html)

A modern take on a another Enfield electric.
YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6VJ6_4yCkw)

PS the Li Ion batteries doesn't make the modern take on the Enfield electric work so well.....the batteries are rubbish....its the flux capacitor which transforms it.
Ron

[goingbush]

Ron, never realised you had an Enfield,
I see you spilled the beans on the Flux Capacitor , its also what makes my Landy work well. [bigwhistle]

http://goingbush.com/AULRO/flux.jpg

[Kaps]

Thankyou for posting those pictures, Ron. I saw an Enfied Electric car on Friday. I wondered what it was. Now I know.

[101 Ron]

As far as I know there were only two Enfeild electrics sold into this country.
They were both purchased new by the Victorian electricity comission of the time.
I would love to know where my old one is today.
When I had it in was in mint condition with about 200 miles on the clock with the original un worn Avon tyres ect.
Ron

[goingbush]

As far as I know there were only two Enfeild electrics sold into this country.
They were both purchased new by the Victorian electricity comission of the time.
I would love to know where my old one is today.
When I had it in was in mint condition with about 200 miles on the clock with the original un worn Avon tyres ect.
Ron


Heres one of them then.


https://www-cdn.rac.com.au/-/media/images/rac-website/articles/content-hub/2017/our-stories/stories_ev_assoc_wa_enfield_8000_electric_city_car _630px.jpg?la=en&modified=20170327141900&hash=B5908E9A9FE53A244BE835A7B0FD77FCB035B4A5

[goingbush]

Heres one at Charlies Car Museum, Arthurs Seat Vic

interestingly sat next to a petrol bowser !

https://i0.wp.com/anygivenreason.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/AGR_Charlies-22.jpg'resize=1500%2C843

https://i1.wp.com/anygivenreason.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/AGR_Charlies-11.jpg'resize=1500%2C843

[101 Ron]

That is most likey the other one that was imported all those years ago.
It appears to be in reasonable shape.
I did a mod to the one I had.
They were built for the English market and used a English power plug for the on board battery charger with a adaptor to suit Australia.
It was a clumsey arrangement and the English plug and a short lead was stored at the back of the rear batteries.
On the one I had I fitted a caravan type plastic outside 240 volt aussie plug in for a extension lead to be used straight into the side of the vehicle.
It was located above the RHS rear wheel rear body quarter.
It saved the need to open up the rear trunk to charge up............just like todays electrics.
Looking hard I cannot see it in the preivous pic.

[101 Ron]

Heres one at Charlies Car Museum, Arthurs Seat Vic

interestingly sat next to a petrol bowser !

https://i0.wp.com/anygivenreason.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/AGR_Charlies-22.jpg'resize=1500%2C843

https://i1.wp.com/anygivenreason.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/AGR_Charlies-11.jpg'resize=1500%2C843

The Red one is my old one.............see the caravan type charging inlet.
Its not standard.........I fitted it.
It obviously had a paint job over the years and different hub caps.
Ron.