Puzzling behavior 300tdi

[incisor]

Went to check the coolant on the 130 this morning as i do, on my weekly check on all things under bonnet

undo cap and woosh of air and a little coolant falls on the outside of the tank

look inside the coolant tank and it is almost empty

hmmmm

check dipstick, the usual black stuff on the bottom, phew!

refill coolant tank to just above the join as i normally do and start the engine up.

bit of black smoke and the tiniest tinge of blue for 10 secs and then fairly clean as usual

check the coolant tank whilst revving it a few times and no bubbles appear

what should i do now other than peering longingly at my wallet ?

pressure test the coolant system i suppose ...

[roverrescue]

Sorry to hear Inc
You’ve made the diagnosis already
It’s the HG

The best / quickest / $ option is to order a new head from Turners, gasket set etc
Park her up yoink the whole cooling system out
Rodnthe radiator / replace the pump and Pgasket and long bolts / replace the thermostat / renew any dodgy hoses / replace or remove the ejector (it’s probably clagged) then when the head arrives swap em over and drive off into the sunset

Otherwise you could try a bunch of other things muck around, pull the head off, try to fix it blah blah blah and in the end wish you just fixed it ;)

Sucks

S

[incisor]

yeah...

who do turners use for freight out here?

and no real warning to boot dam it...

[incisor]

about $1400 worth for the head, bolts, gaskets shipping and plus the GST when it lands...

oh well it is what it is i suppose :p

[loanrangie]

Shop around, try Autopost in London.

[manic]

Some pressure in the coolant system is normal, no? I often have air 'whoosh' when removing the cap.

It might be worth using one of those combustion leak tester kits before u rip the head off.

Also, the expansion cap is supposed to release over pressure.

[pop058]

Sniff test the header tank.

[incisor]

yeah but the header tank was next to empty and all i've done is turn it over for 5 or so mins once a week for the last few weeks as i've been to sore to use the clutch

i've only just put a new genuine cap on the header tank

i'll get the coolant system pressure tested as a starter.

i swear land rovers are like dogs, they know when you sell something and have some project money.

just had to spend $800+ on one of my dogs after it picked up a tick out of nowhere

[roverrescue]

Inc
We are only 85km from your joint
If you wanted a hand once bits arrived I’m sure I could scooch down for some spanner tossing?

S

[roverrescue]

300tdi
Using water
Bubbles in reservoir

Gonna be HG and quite likely a knackered head to boot
Of course it doesn’t have to be but
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck!!!

I guess it takes what an hour or so to yoink the head off
Could always do that and see what the HG looks like?

Trouble is in my experience it’s very hard to test the head once it’s on a bench
You will see cracks around the glow plugs
You won’t see cracks in behind the valves???

S

[incisor]

Bubbles in reservoir


no bubbles that i saw that is why i thought it was odd

but yeah... my gut tells me your right and a pressure test should confirm beyond all doubt i would think..

[Trout]

Fitted a Turners head 3 weeks ago. TDI was using water intermittently and overheating. No bubbles or water in oil. Everything else cooling wise had been replaced in the last few years. Figured it was either the head or gasket. Pulled the head off and the gasket was fine. No obvious cracks in head. The new head cured the water loss but not the overheating. I then changed the viscous fan even though it was only a few years old and I could not really stop it with a paint brush when hot. Made a big difference to temps but I am still not convinced I have solved it yet. Radiator next.

Turners used DHL. Came in a few days. But be prepared to get slugged with GST, import duty and the usual DHL added fees. Try to get Turners to use somebody else.

If you can afford the extra $ get the performance head. It definitely goes better than standard. Not dramatic but noticeable.

[Blknight.aus]

check the vactuator first.

[roverrescue]

Apologies
My poor comprehension
I thought you wrote bubbles in coolant in original thread.

So how far did you drive / idle for the engine to swallow a tankful of coolant?

Normally a HG leak head blowout is preceded by hard hot running?
Was the coolant system all operational no dramas up until you found an empty expansion tank?
I think Dave is indicating the system may not have been fully bled (due to whacked ejector) and then this event was essentially burping of the system

S

[Eevo]

its happened once right?

maybe not jump to conclusions and see if it happens again.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Yell if you need a leg...[wink11]

[rick130]

check the vactuator first.This.

[86mud]

Inc - did you wait for the engine to get to operating temp/wait for thermostat to open? The TDi's take ages to get to operating temp.

Check this first. Then see if you have pressure by squeezing the top coolant hose

I find the header tank caps don't last very long. I seem to replace these about every 12 months just as precaution.

[incisor]

thanks for all the input

will be looking into the vacuator thing and making sure i get it good and hot etc over the next few days..

has only done it once

it has never over heated during my ownership

i have a vdo mechanical temp gauge on it and it never goes over 92deg unloaded and only ever gotten to 95deg with the van on going up a bloody long hill.

i have had the egt's over 750 a couple times tho...

will update the thread when i find out more

[loanrangie]

If it is the ejector just replace it with a brass Y piece.

[rar110]

Is a cracked head fairly common on 300tdi?

[incisor]

If it is the ejector just replace it with a brass Y piece.

yep

ordered one to try..

[loanrangie]

Is a cracked head fairly common on 300tdi?On earlier heads I believe it was , mine cracked right near the valve seats .

[rick130]

If it is the ejector just replace it with a brass Y piece.They don't seem to work, confirmed by one member who's a mechanic and just did this on his ute.
We both reckon the vacuator acts like a venturi.
He's just ordered a new one through Land Rover

[incisor]

They don't seem to work, confirmed by one member who's a mechanic and just did this on his ute.
We both reckon the vacuator acts like a venturi.
He's just ordered a new one through Land Rover


i was interested in seeing if bubbles showed up in the header tank if no valve was present

thanks for the info...

what were the systems he experienced, do you know ?

[DiscoMick]

Have you tried taking the cap off the main tank, filling it to the top and refitting the cap, filling the overflow to the mark, leaving the cap off, starting and idling the motor and seeing if the level drops over say 10-15 minutes? May need an occasional top up until the level settles. This could rule out the possibility of an air bubble in the tank having caused the problem, because the system is pressurised. Probably not the cause, but it's an easy check before you go spending lots of money.
I speak from experience with our 300Tdi. Been there, done that.

[DiscoMick]

Have you tried taking the cap off the main tank, filling it to the top and refitting the cap, filling the overflow to the mark, leaving the overflow cap off, starting and idling the motor and seeing if the level drops over say 10-15 minutes? May need an occasional top up until the level settles. This could rule out the possibility of an air bubble in the system, possibly at the top, having caused the problem, because the system is pressurised. Probably not the cause, but it's an easy check before you go spending lots of money.
I speak from experience with our 300Tdi. Been there, done that.

[AK83]

what were the systems he experienced, do you know ?

I snapped my venturi/valve/vactuator thingie, the day before a long weekend(as is so often the case).
I have lots of bits and bobs, so just added a T-piece in place, and the Tdi ran hot(not overheated, but a min 10°C or more hotter than it's usual low 80's)

Posted about it on here, and was given advice to add a small tube inside the t-piece long enough so that it passes the centre port.
I used a hard vac tube small enough to fit inside the T-piece, then heated up the vac tube to open up the one end so that it didn't just slip right through into the t-piece and into the expansion tank.
Imagine a funnel. So the small tube inside the t-piece(brass) looks like a funnel, inserted from the engine side of the hose and it doesn't slide in through the t-piece, but it's length passes the port that turns back to the radiator.

Works perfectly, brass a lot stronger than plastic(so no fear of my incompetent heavy handedness again).
Been over two years now, have since replaced all rubber hoses with a full silicon hose kit, re-checked the brass t-piece and it's vac hose insert .. no worries, maybe 18months ago too.

I still ordered a valve assembly, annoys me that you can only get it as a full assembly, and not just the small valve that's been hanging in my shed wall for over two years unused .. probably never will either.

Sorry can't help with sizes of the t-piece and the dia of the vac tube .. I think I grabbed the bit of vac tube off my D2 wreck.

But just T or Y piece in place may not work 100%(or so I've been told). Dunno about the Y piece, never tried, but (from experience) don't use a plain T piece, it needs the tube insert.

[incisor]

Have you tried taking the cap off the main tank, filling it to the top and refitting the cap, filling the overflow to the mark, leaving the overflow cap off, starting and idling the motor and seeing if the level drops over say 10-15 minutes? May need an occasional top up until the level settles. This could rule out the possibility of an air bubble in the system, possibly at the top, having caused the problem, because the system is pressurised. Probably not the cause, but it's an easy check before you go spending lots of money.
I speak from experience with our 300Tdi. Been there, done that.

i don't usually have any trouble bleeding my 300tdi's

i just park nose up in my driveway and fill them slowly and run them up, then seal them off

but will be playing the game again when i get time..

ta

[loanrangie]

They don't seem to work, confirmed by one member who's a mechanic and just did this on his ute.
We both reckon the vacuator acts like a venturi.
He's just ordered a new one through Land Rover

I don't know, i replaced mine about a year before i did a head and never had any issues before or after.
There are no valves or moving parts in them so effectively just a Y joiner anyway.

[rick130]

i was interested in seeing if bubbles showed up in the header tank if no valve was present

thanks for the info...

what were the systems he experienced, do you know ?Low coolant alarm intermittently going off, and losing a little coolant I think.
The line from the t/stat bleed was blocked.
Put in a brass tee as a temporary measure and still the same but he had the same issue with his D1 years ago doing the same.
Used the brass tee and still the same.
Used the correct bit, problem solved.

[rick130]

And best to ask Mario directly but Matt deals with him and Mario said the ones he was getting were faulty too often so Matt is getting genuine.

[rick130]

I don't know, i replaced mine about a year before i did a head and never had any issues before or after.
There are no valves or moving parts in them so effectively just a Y joiner anyway.I know, maybe read Arthurs post above?
All I can think of is that the angles need to be right to pull the air out of both bleeds.

Matt's a switched on mechanic and has tried both, only the genuine bit stopped the overheating.

[AK83]

....
There are no valves or moving parts in them so effectively just a Y joiner anyway.

Yes and No(kind'a sort'a)

I just fetched mine(the unused one I ordered ages ago).
Brand new still, just dusty(fell into a small gap between loads of stuff, and sat there all this time).
Cleaned off hose ends, and blew through.
From the engine side when you blow air through, most of that air comes through to the expansion tank hose end, and very little to the radiator hose end .. so it is more restricted in the UFO valve thing.
If you block the expansion tank hose end, its then a little harder to to blow through the engine side end hose, and not as much air comes through the radiator end of the hose(not as much air out, as the effort to blow through).
Block the radiator hose end tho, and it's much easier to maintain air into hose, and more air(by sound) seems to come out through to the expansion tank hose end.

radiator hose is smaller ID compared to the other two hose IDs tho .. so maybe that's why the restriction, but it's not a lot smaller(maybe 4mm ID vs 5mm IDs for the other two).

So, yeah, it's just a three way junction, but it is 'restricted' in some way/somehow, even tho it's still flows all the time through all 3 hose ends.

[Blknight.aus]

its a double venturi.

flow from the engine side or the radiator side towards the header tank draws air from the radiator or engine respectively.

This is why the piece of vac tube flared into A Tpiece works so well.

Some of the vactuators have a pair of bumper type one way valves in them to stop coolant flowing backwards out of the header tank into the radiator or the thermostat housing.

a Y piece will usually work if you get it so the Y points down away from the thermostat and radiator but is still higher than the radiator bleed, lower than thermostat and without any downhill legs

[AK83]

....

a Y piece will usually work if you get it so the Y points down away from the thermostat and radiator but is still higher than the radiator bleed, lower than thermostat and without any downhill legs

Ah! makes sense now .. and why a T piece didn't work well for me(until I fitted the inner tube part).

The flow from thermostat housing and radiator into the expansion tank coming from both the top of the Y bits flowing more smoothly into the expansion tank.
Hard for the flow to do a sharp almost U turn from one top port and back to the other, but still flow smoothly towards the expansion tank.

[loanrangie]

I just cut the crimps off the hose and fitted the Y fitting with clamps and had no problems after.

[rick130]

its a double venturi.

flow from the engine side or the radiator side towards the header tank draws air from the radiator or engine respectively.

This is why the piece of vac tube flared into A Tpiece works so well.

Some of the vactuators have a pair of bumper type one way valves in them to stop coolant flowing backwards out of the header tank into the radiator or the thermostat housing.

a Y piece will usually work if you get it so the Y points down away from the thermostat and radiator but is still higher than the radiator bleed, lower than thermostat and without any downhill legs


Cheers Dave, guessed it had to be a venturi of some description