Discovery suspension "down grade"?

[Eric SDV6SE]

Got this via an email newsletter from Rimmer Bros the other day, interesting, and reasonably priced too IMHO.

For those of us who have had enough of replacing airbags, overhauling compressors, replacing airlines, valve blocks and crawling under the car with soapy water chasing that elusive air leak.

Air to Coil Spring Conversion Kit -RD1423 - Dunlop | Rimmer Bros (https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-RD1423)

Makes your Llams (if fitted) redundant though.

[dirvine]

I just wonder why you would fit this. fitting of this product would remove the ability to raise the car for off road. If fitted what would the cars ground clearance be? I agree it must be a down grade. I am interested to know how many people have had problems with air bags etc which would/could justify this outlay as being cost or operational effective.

[kelvo]

It’s fairly popular in the UK. The cost of D3 and early D4 is low, so the ‘ruff and ready’ types that had bashed up D1 and D2 then move onto D3/4. The trouble is they don’t have the knowledge or money to actually maintain them so they throw cheap pattern parts or used parts on, which don’t last. They then just rip out anything they can’t fix correctly.

The same thing happened with D2s with the SLS and ACE systems.

[DiscoJeffster]

Haha. Take the best thing about the thing and **** it. This sounds like something a government would do

[PerthDisco]

I just wonder why you would fit this. fitting of this product would remove the ability to raise the car for off road. If fitted what would the cars ground clearance be? I agree it must be a down grade. I am interested to know how many people have had problems with air bags etc which would/could justify this outlay as being cost or operational effective.

Take a look at the UK videos and anything under the car in a few short years is a lump of rust and basically unserviceable (compressor etc.) which would drive demand for this reduction in complexity. You still keep the nice interior and space.

Not the problem in Oz.

[PhilipA]

Even the bloke from LRO who toured Australia in a D4 had the suspension let him down somewhere out back. The article was pretty recent and about the new Defender with him doubting the decision to only have coils available on 90 using his Australian experience as an example..

Almost every trip I went on with the Range Rover Club of NSW one or another variety of air suspended car had a problem.

One trip they had to abort part of it when an L322 went down and the only dealer with test equipment was in Adelaide and they were in AFAIR Broken Hill.

The last big trip I went on had a RR Sport with it at Geehi Walls and the suspension went down. Luckily by then the club had bought a Test Book and was able to find and ID the problem and fix it. It was a missing bolt holding the air pipe on the LH front airbag.

I wouldn't go outback with a L322 D3 D4 RRS without a diagnostic tool and maybe spare airbag, pump, and make sure the dessicant is clean, yada yada spend spend.

I bought my D2 because it had coil springs and again I met a bloke out side of Mildura with a D2 whose ACE pump had died and he was stopping every kilometer to refill with fluid. Not air suspension but similar unnecessary complexity for the bush.

Although it can happen I have never seen a Land Rover in the bush with a failed coil spring.

My experience is that I can easily keep up with a D3 on a twisty road. A D3 may be ultimately better when lower rounding curves but by then my arm is being squeezed and SWMBO feet are hitting brakes. If buying a D3 I would probably go for the S with coils and just fit a lift kit. After all you can usually only do 100Kmh in the bush. And of course you can then have 17 inch rims if it doesn't already have them. That is of course another thing. On that same trip to Geehi 2 cars lost 19 inch tyres on good dirt roads, one into the Geehi overflow reservoir and one on the Mt Pinnibar track.( probably not so good)

Regards PhilipA

[SeanC]

I may be lucky but haven’t had a problem touch wood. The air suspension is not a no maintenance system. I replace things before they fail and even before they they appeared on the way out. I’ve changed the compressor, the valve blocks and air springs. Checked the airlines and connections. Same with the alternator and upper water housing. They are all fully functional spares. If you are going remote it is just false economy trying to get your “money’s worth”. It doesn’t really cost you much more by bringing the spend forward by say six months.

[PerthDisco]

Problems are the rarity not the norm in my opinion.

Outside of this forum I’ve never heard in the real world anyone having suspension issues.

For what seems so complex is very bulletproof and easily diagnosed and worked on without a scanner.

Air Struts on D3 /D4 are seriously bullet proof capable of 250,000km

Compressors have known issues and service recommendations but go for a long time usually.

[INter674]

Suspension generally can be problematic on any vehicle..LRs are not special in that regard albeit failures may be more serious in that the vehicle may not be driveable.

On many trips I've seen trailing arms or panhards or bushes or shocks on Jap trucks fail. Same for steering components eg. Latest was a steering box on a Patrol. Diff may be that the Jap trucks almost always have upgraded componants which cost a lot but which are more durable...but trailing arm failures and panhard failures are a serious show stopper and are quite common unless upgraded. I've also seen upper ball joint failures on IFS trucks esp lifted units and yes seen broken springs too..tho rare.. but dislocated coils ... Yes a few.

Btw..daughters partner's brother has built a bullet proof GU..no expense spared on engine and suspension eg Fox shocks..upgrades arms etc etc plus strengthened chassis (cause they crack)..and braced diffs . Cause they bend..and the list goes on and on..plus new fantastic canopy...

What does it owe him....near 100k🤤

So air bag failures on my fantastic D4 SC that cost 38k is the least of my concerns.

And I 'd much rather the D4 than an ancient however nicely modified Patrol or Yota☺

[scarry]

Problems are the rarity not the norm in my opinion.

Outside of this forum I’ve never heard in the real world anyone having suspension issues.

For what seems so complex is very bulletproof and easily diagnosed and worked on without a scanner.

Air Struts on D3 /D4 are seriously bullet proof capable of 250,000km

Compressors have known issues and service recommendations but go for a long time usually.

Not from my experience.

It is often difficult to identify the exact issue with EAS,as the systems are complex.

Sure if an air leak can be found easily that is fine.If the air compresser is not going,easy fault as well.

Locating other faults such as corner valves leaking,etc, is often difficult.

A Gap tool or similar is needed for many of the repairs,particularly for checking gallery pressures,resetting height sensors,etc,etc.

My vehicle,as an example,8yrs old,85 000km,front corner valve failed about 4 yrs ago,a front strut leaked about 3 yrs ago,and two weeks ago,other front strut was leaking.

As my Indie tech said,they are now getting numerous early D4's starting to come in with EAS issues,and most D3/4 over 9 to 10yrs old have age cracks in the airbags,although they sometimes don't leak,but its a sure indication they are not going to last much longer.

The EAS is probably the most common issue on these vehicle.

Sure it is a great system,i wouldn't go back to coils.

And as for outback,remote area travel,we have done a lot,and never worried about the chance of the EAS faulting.
If the vehicle did fault and lower to the bump stops,a GAP tool can force the compresser to run,and get it back up,then pull the fuse for the EAS system so it will stay up.
Although i have never done this,apparently it isn't difficult.

[chuck]

In South Africa you could get coil sprung D4 right up to the finish of production.

Landrover built a "Povo" pack D4 for the South African Market which i believe continued for a bit after the Defender production stopped.

You could also get suspension lifts for them.

I did enquire about one but Land Rover Australia would not bring one in to Australia.

I have seen an air suspension failure where the rear suspension went down to the bump stops on a track out the back of Marysville.

[Cambo_oldjaguar]

Last month I was called in to "finish off" a coil spring conversion on a D3, the owner had a gut full of air suspension faults, and finally when an airbag popped he got a suspension shop to fit coils, my job was "turn off the air suspension faults in the dash".

As there were coil sprung D3's from the factory it was just a matter of a CCF change, however... the factory coil sprung D3's didn't have the Terrain Response system, so those also had to be turned off.

Here you can see an original gear shift surround from a coil sprung model.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200404/c771fbb5b984f9cde32f101e3a03da69.jpg

Looks like that Rimmer Bros kit uses some sort of emulator to fool the car into thinking the airbags are still there, I wonder if the Terrain Response is still functional with this kit.

[Graeme]

The box may include a CANBUS module that sends and responds appropriately instead of the suspension module which would be keep isolated or at least trap messages indicating a suspension system fault.

[INter674]

I think the point that D3/D4s are getting up in age is important to considering issues such as reliability and future use. My old D2 was a family tow/taxi for years until I decided it was of age to go off road more seriously. So I pumped cash into mods..it was not worth much retail anyway.

One day I might do the same for the D4..and like other 4x4s suspension mods will be a consideration.

So there's nothing surprising or shocking about parts wearing out or requiring mods to improve reliability/durability to suit intended use!

[SeanC]

As my Indie tech said,they are now getting numerous early D4's starting to come in with EAS issues,and most D3/4 over 9 to 10yrs old have age cracks in the airbags,although they sometimes don't leak,but its a sure indication they are not going to last much longer.

If you are running around on 9-10 year old air springs I think you are pushing your luck.

[INter674]

Okay..anyone know how long truck air bags last..as a matter of comparison?

I would be happy with 10 years...

[Eric SDV6SE]

Im on 9 year old air bags and shock absorbers, i fully expect to replave them at some point, as shock absorbers are a wear item. But i wont be replacing them with coil overs, i will be using the delphi oem units or similar. Fully agree the EAS is one of the best features on these cars, and yes, like anything, need maintenance to keep it working. Considering 200,000km from a set of shock absorbers is pretty good in my book.

So far I've pre-emptively serviced the compressor and have had no issues with the system at all in 6 years of ownership. I always lower the car to access mode when driving into the garage or a parking bay, always when moving slowly, regularly inspect and check the airbags and air lines.

I see the new defender also has eas. Im a firm believer in the system, as long as you look after it.

[101RRS]

If you are running around on 9-10 year old air springs I think you are pushing your luck.

Mine are 13 years old and are still OK and look fine. The reality is the serviceability of D3/4/RRS airbags is exceptional - reports of failure are very rare even in high mileage vehicles - this contrasts with OEM bags in the P38 which I think is where stories of poor reliably came from.

The EAS in the D3/4 is not a complex system, if you take the time to learn about it and how it works it is relatively simple.

Garry

[PerthDisco]

Mine are 13 years old and are still OK and look fine. The reality is the serviceability of D3/4/RRS airbags is exceptional - reports of failure are very rare even in high mileage vehicles - this contrasts with OEM bags in the P38 which I think is where stories of poor reliably came from.

The EAS in the D3/4 is not a complex system, if you take the time to learn about it and how it works it is relatively simple.

Garry

Same

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200405/07317730e3770709f4ff784a9b9a78ba.jpg

[SeanC]

Mine are 13 years old and are still OK and look fine. The reality is the serviceability of D3/4/RRS airbags is exceptional - reports of failure are very rare even in high mileage vehicles - this contrasts with OEM bags in the P38 which I think is where stories of poor reliably came from.

The EAS in the D3/4 is not a complex system, if you take the time to learn about it and how it works it is relatively simple.

Garry
I changed my out at about 9 years 180,000kms. Nothing in particular wrong with them just thought it was time.

[LGM]

I posted the following April last year re the airbags.

"I replaced the airbags on all corners of my D4 at around the 215k mark. Nothing to do with the airbag condition but everything to do with stuffed shocks! Replaced the fronts first then about a month later did the rears not for any other reason than spreading the cost. When the fronts were done the improvement in the ride was very noticeable. When the backs were done there was further noticeable improvement."

In my travels with the D4 (which has close enough to 300,000km on the clock) I don't hesitate to take it anywhere I want to go. That said I do have a 'considered approach' to preventative maintenance, at least as much as my budget will allow.

Thinking about the suspension downgrade....when I make the direct comparison with SWMBO's D3 (base model coil sprung) and my D4 HSE there is no way I would want to forego the air suspension.

Just Sayin![bighmmm]

[Eric SDV6SE]

Okay..anyone know how long truck air bags last..as a matter of comparison?

I would be happy with 10 years...

Im sure not as long, but then the D4 is not loaded like a truck, the eas air suspension units are working well within their design limits on a D3/D4

[AK83]

Okay..anyone know how long truck air bags last..as a matter of comparison?

I would be happy with 10 years...

Depends on trucks.
I have various experiences.

1. Mack rigid. The Euro type Renault Mack. Dunno what year it was, one of my old work colleagues at a transport Co I worked at. Very nice truck to drive compared to Jap rigids(Fuso/Isuzus). This truck was approx mid 200's model, 400+ K klms on it.
I worked there for a good 5-6yrs, and for the most part zero air bag failures. Then towards the end of my employment there I remember two airbag failures in quick succession. As this one was a tandem (one lazy) he could bypass it to keep going even with a load, just to get him back.

2. Brothers two prime movers. 2010 Iveco no problems so far. > 1 million klms on it. Only suspension issues have been 1 worn shock bush. Mechanic and us have checked airbags, all good so far. No issues with any air lines. Recently it had a major issue with a main air line where the main 3/4" pipe union wore out a compression olive and left us stranded with zero air .. not a suspension air line issue as such. Truck is old, but still goes really well.
His old Vovlo(now gone), had 1.7 million klms. For it's RWC he had to replace two of the 6 airbags due to 'cracking'. RWC guy must have had much better vision than either of us, very hard to see them. All 6 looked in similar condition.
As I'm a bit of a magpie I decided to keep the old ones, want to make a raising platform with them.

Over the past 10 or so years I reckon I've pulled about 50 or so different trailers, never had any issues with airbags on trailers.
At Woolies, where we swapped trailers every day we didn't have them long enough to see problems develop on air bags. I used to see air leaks, and they had to be reported(ie. pre check), and from what I remember all air leaks were a valve/union issue, never airbags.

3. recently driving buses, These buses are in the 10 year 200-400k klms range now. I had a major air leak on one job first thing I thought was airbag? Luckily had enough air to drop off passengers before it lost it all and I HAD to stop.
While I waited for recovery, I checked all air bags and they were fine, all inflated, but still no air in the system(no brakes, no door). Turned out to be a 1/2 plastic pipe from compressor to ... wherever it went from there.

As a casual observer, I'd say it's not a major issue, and even at 10 years all you'd need to do is just be sure they're in decent condition.

I'd love to get a D3 one day too, but all this chatter of air suspension issues, and the cost of airbags can be 'off putting' to a slight degree.
But I'm wondering if anyone knows about materials. Is there some sort of product that could keep the rubber of the air bag in better condition.
Now with the two truck air bags out and sitting in my shed, I can see the microscopic cracks that the RWC mech noted, and failed. Something like an 'Armourall' for rubber to keep them from hardening and cracking up?

[INter674]

Fantastic info Arthur☺

I guess like you that differences in air bag materials and no doubt construction is important to how long they last. Trucks are amazing with regard to kilometers travelled and overall durability compared to cars which is I guess what the industry demands.

You don't hear of too many major issue although I recall our local cattle carter had a European built Mack which had endless chassis cracks and steering gear problems too 🤤

It was traded on an used Iveco which ran up over a million ks...

[INter674]

I posted the following April last year re the airbags.

"I replaced the airbags on all corners of my D4 at around the 215k mark. Nothing to do with the airbag condition but everything to do with stuffed shocks! Replaced the fronts first then about a month later did the rears not for any other reason than spreading the cost. When the fronts were done the improvement in the ride was very noticeable. When the backs were done there was further noticeable improvement."

In my travels with the D4 (which has close enough to 300,000km on the clock) I don't hesitate to take it anywhere I want to go. That said I do have a 'considered approach' to preventative maintenance, at least as much as my budget will allow.

Thinking about the suspension downgrade....when I make the direct comparison with SWMBO's D3 (base model coil sprung) and my D4 HSE there is no way I would want to forego the air suspension.

Just Sayin![bighmmm]

Yup i agree..air suspension is brilliant...i use it for hooking up trailers for example and on the farm just a flick of a switch to raise and it clears gutters and drains etc. Lowered it makes the perfect car to transport our 90 y old MIL who with buggered hips really appreciates the ride quality.

Tows brilliantly too..so I would never go back to leaf springs or coils...

[Tombie]

Even the bloke from LRO who toured Australia in a D4 had the suspension let him down somewhere out back. The article was pretty recent and about the new Defender with him doubting the decision to only have coils available on 90 using his Australian experience as an example..

Almost every trip I went on with the Range Rover Club of NSW one or another variety of air suspended car had a problem.

One trip they had to abort part of it when an L322 went down and the only dealer with test equipment was in Adelaide and they were in AFAIR Broken Hill.

The last big trip I went on had a RR Sport with it at Geehi Walls and the suspension went down. Luckily by then the club had bought a Test Book and was able to find and ID the problem and fix it. It was a missing bolt holding the air pipe on the LH front airbag.

I wouldn't go outback with a L322 D3 D4 RRS without a diagnostic tool and maybe spare airbag, pump, and make sure the dessicant is clean, yada yada spend spend.

I bought my D2 because it had coil springs and again I met a bloke out side of Mildura with a D2 whose ACE pump had died and he was stopping every kilometer to refill with fluid. Not air suspension but similar unnecessary complexity for the bush.

Although it can happen I have never seen a Land Rover in the bush with a failed coil spring.

My experience is that I can easily keep up with a D3 on a twisty road. A D3 may be ultimately better when lower rounding curves but by then my arm is being squeezed and SWMBO feet are hitting brakes. If buying a D3 I would probably go for the S with coils and just fit a lift kit. After all you can usually only do 100Kmh in the bush. And of course you can then have 17 inch rims if it doesn't already have them. That is of course another thing. On that same trip to Geehi 2 cars lost 19 inch tyres on good dirt roads, one into the Geehi overflow reservoir and one on the Mt Pinnibar track.( probably not so good)

Regards PhilipA

Ive been on trips where a Coil spring, a spring perch, and leaf springs, have all suffered failures. I've also been on trips where Airbag equipped vehicles have had problems. Almost always was a maintenance issue with SLS and fatigue failure on springs - not necessarily old springs either, just point fatigue.

ACE pumps - fit the shorter belt and keep going - no problems [smilebigeye] inherently reliable system - if maintained (they are now at minimum 15 years old)

Comparing an L322 with its older than D4 tech suspension wise is like comparing the D2 to a D4. A D3 with coils would be (and is) pretty useless. Been out with one, was limited in capability and made things look a lot harder than a D4.

Plenty of vehicles running 18s and 19s without issues.. Including the new Toyotas [bigwhistle] some drivers will be unlucky, some drive in a manner that they need all the sidewall they can get, others go years without problems.

What is a constant - D4s make rough fast tracks seem so much smoother that the operator often goes far harder than someone in a SAS eg D2 will find comfort driving. This places significantly more strain on the suspension and rubber. Drive rear of pack, with the SAS vehicle setting the pace and often nothing happens!

[INter674]

Has anyone been on a group trip and had NO issues with any of the vehicles??

I haven't 🙄

[Tombie]

Here’s a crazy idea.

As vehicles age and wear... replace the ****ing parts [emoji48]
People seem to be surprised when a vehicle used off-road (or even on road) needs upkeep to keep it working as it should.

[Tombie]

Has anyone been on a group trip and had NO issues with any of the vehicles??

I haven't [emoji849]

No. But I have been on plenty of trips where the LR was the only vehicle not to have a problem.

[INter674]

No. But I have been on plenty of trips where the LR was the only vehicle not to have a problem.

Ha ha.. I've had similar experiences myself ☺

..but having issues is parts of the fun I reckon..just love the challenge of eg recovering an 80 series with a broken TC from the Vic high country in snow..and changing a Patrol CV on top of Mr Skene in winter too. Busted Patrol steering box with no balls...mmmm...interesting.

[Discodicky]

Has anyone been on a group trip and had NO issues with any of the vehicles??

I haven't 🙄

Much of this rests back with the owner/driver and not the vehicle per se. Lack of checking vehicle and the carrying out of maintenance prior failure.
My first trip out with the local L/Rover club way back in 1978 and a chap had probs with clutch hydraulics in a Series 3. Master & slave cyl rubbers hadn't been replaced for umpteen years.
Similarly a trip 2 yrs ago with the local Ford Mustang Club, an engine with chronic overheat. During discussions on the roadside the owner mentioned that he knew it had been losing a small amount of water for some time.......... the water pump seal failed big time on our outing.
In the mining industry they always replace pre-failure to avoid unplanned downtime. eg, based on their own experience and manufacturers recommendation they replace a turbocharger at say 8,000 hrs regardless of whether it has failed or ok.
They plan for it, budget for it, and by doing that they hopefully avoid any surprises and costly failures as unplanned downtime is to be avoided at all costs if possible.
If you take your vehicle to remote and inaccessible areas then you should be maintaining it along the same lines as the Mining Industry does, in order to reduce the chances of inconvenience and potentially costly problems.

[Graeme]

Has anyone been on a group trip and had NO issues with any of the vehicles??
If 2 is a group then yes, last September Prado and my L322 but I can add a few more single vehicle trips of mine starting with my 84 RRC in 96.

[scarry]

Has anyone been on a group trip and had NO issues with any of the vehicles??

I haven't 🙄

Not a group,but,

We generally travel solo,done thousands of k's all over the country including numerous remote area trips,since having LR's,for the last 20yrs plus.
Never ever had a break down,not even a tyre failure.
I just hope Murphy isn't listening....
Our vehicles are serviced correctly,and tyres replaced well before they are completely worn out.

But on our travels we have come across many broken down vehicles of all different types,with no particular brand the main culprit.

[Moggymitch]

Has anyone been on a group trip and had NO issues with any of the vehicles??

I haven't 🙄
Did a 5 day trip along the Border Track and district with my father in a GQ, friend in a Defender and me in my 80.

As soon as we can travel will take the D4 on the same trip, don’t think the dunes will be much of a challenge this time though!

[loanrangie]

Has anyone been on a group trip and had NO issues with any of the vehicles??

I haven't [emoji849]Yes, never had any failure in any lr that couldn't get me home in 26 years of landy ownership.
Even had a balancer come off 500m from home, I just walked home grabbed a spare bolt and was on my way in 30 mins.

[DieselLSE]

...never had any failure in any lr that couldn't get me home in 26 years of landy ownership.
I can up that to 45 years.
And I mostly travel on my own or with one or two passengers. Off the top of my head I've had a rear diff and fuel pump failure (SII SWB), broken front axle (SIII LWB) requiring an eight hour capstan winch down hill in deep snow, and headlights and driving lights failing early one morning on my way back home to go to work (SIII LWB). Add another eight hour uphill winch plus a handful of other winching out episodes and that's about it. On each occasion I had the spares and knowhow to either fix the problem or work around it.
Mind you, I'm fastidious about preventative maintenance and doing any work properly and seeking advice where needed.
I'm not saying I haven't had other issues with Landrovers, and I recall a broken rear axle, probably on the SII and an intermittent miss in the engine on the LSE before I converted it to diesel, but these happened around town and didn't stop the vehicle.
Just remembered that the steering drop arm bolts on the SII SWB came loose in the butcher country. From memory (this was early new year 1977) one bolt had disappeared and I couldn't tighten the others. Funny story now I think of it. I must write it up one day. But I got out OK.

[AK83]

I can up that to 45 years.
....

No way I can even come close to that.
But my old '79 Rangie did give me 500K klms(totalled 650K klms all up) of 'get me home' travelling over most of this country too.
Always got me home, had it's issues as any vehicle will and could have, but the rangie never failed to proceed ... homeward bound.

[INter674]

No way I can even come close to that.
But my old '79 Rangie did give me 500K klms(totalled 650K klms all up) of 'get me home' travelling over most of this country too.
Always got me home, had it's issues as any vehicle will and could have, but the rangie never failed to proceed ... homeward bound.

Brilliant car..don't care what the knockers say..still look good..and still v good off road..I wants one now😚

[PhilipA]

But my old '79 Rangie did give me
500K klms(totalled 650K klms all up) of 'get me home' travelling over most of this country too.

You mean you never had a ticker ticker stop ticker tickering in the middle of nowhere?

I had one go about 100-150Kms out of Riyadh alone in the desert.

Luckily I had a spare on board and was able to fit it accompanied by much petrol in eyes.
Regards PhilipA

[rick130]

Here’s a crazy idea.

As vehicles age and wear... replace the ****ing parts [emoji48]
People seem to be surprised when a vehicle used off-road (or even on road) needs upkeep to keep it working as it should.This ^

Hoses, belts, sealed bearings, O rings, seals deteriorate with age (heat cycles and UV degradation) and not necessarily miles.

They are all consumables like brake pads and filters.

[AK83]

You mean you never had a ticker ticker stop ticker tickering in the middle of nowhere?

I had one go about 100-150Kms out of Riyadh alone in the desert.

Luckily I had a spare on board and was able to fit it accompanied by much petrol in eyes.
Regards PhilipA

I did my fuel pump once at home no jack as I lay in the gutter getting fuel all over self .. including my brand new Suunto watch(idiot!), which then suddenly stopped working(wonder why [bighmmm])
Let it dry out and de smell, took it into store to get them to have a look at it, me looking all confused and sullen. 10 mins later they bring me a new one out under warranty .. me lesson learned [biggrin]

My fuel pump slowly died over a period of a few months. Confusion as to why I'd suddenly lose power going up hill if I tried to power up it, back off it came good, power through it it'd shut down.
I thought carbs. But eventually could hear the slower tickering rate of the ticker ticker and the penny dropped.

[loanrangie]

I can up that to 45 years.
And I mostly travel on my own or with one or two passengers. Off the top of my head I've had a rear diff and fuel pump failure (SII SWB), broken front axle (SIII LWB) requiring an eight hour capstan winch down hill in deep snow, and headlights and driving lights failing early one morning on my way back home to go to work (SIII LWB). Add another eight hour uphill winch plus a handful of other winching out episodes and that's about it. On each occasion I had the spares and knowhow to either fix the problem or work around it.
Mind you, I'm fastidious about preventative maintenance and doing any work properly and seeking advice where needed.
I'm not saying I haven't had other issues with Landrovers, and I recall a broken rear axle, probably on the SII and an intermittent miss in the engine on the LSE before I converted it to diesel, but these happened around town and didn't stop the vehicle.
Just remembered that the steering drop arm bolts on the SII SWB came loose in the butcher country. From memory (this was early new year 1977) one bolt had disappeared and I couldn't tighten the others. Funny story now I think of it. I must write it up one day. But I got out OK.

26 years is more than half my life time which is a good going i think.

[SeanC]

This ^

Hoses, belts, sealed bearings, O rings, seals deteriorate with age (heat cycles and UV degradation) and not necessarily miles.

They are all consumables like brake pads and filters.
A 4wd is one vehicle I have no interest in finding out how far I can get out of a certain part.

[scarry]

I did my fuel pump once at home no jack as I lay in the gutter getting fuel all over self .. including my brand new Suunto watch(idiot!), which then suddenly stopped working(wonder why [bighmmm])
Let it dry out and de smell, took it into store to get them to have a look at it, me looking all confused and sullen. 10 mins later they bring me a new one out under warranty .. me lesson learned [biggrin]

My fuel pump slowly died over a period of a few months. Confusion as to why I'd suddenly lose power going up hill if I tried to power up it, back off it came good, power through it it'd shut down.
I thought carbs. But eventually could hear the slower tickering rate of the ticker ticker and the penny dropped.

Common failure in the series 1 as well,my father had two piped up all the time,one as a spare,just changed over the wiring.
Then rebuilt the failed one later on.

[RANDLOVER]

Depends on trucks.
I have various experiences.
……………………………………...
But I'm wondering if anyone knows about materials. Is there some sort of product that could keep the rubber of the air bag in better condition.
Now with the two truck air bags out and sitting in my shed, I can see the microscopic cracks that the RWC mech noted, and failed. Something like an 'Armourall' for rubber to keep them from hardening and cracking up?

Came across this on the interwebs YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FGPbSafSpI) seems he uses
AT 205 Reseal:
https://amzn.to/2Iss794 for all sorts of rubber on cars! (https://www.youtube.com/redirect?q=https%3A%2F%2Famzn.to%2F2Iss794&redir_token=1WwY4al2OSibZey44TSLMK-2Elt8MTU4NjgwNTgzNkAxNTg2NzE5NDM2&event=video_description&v=5FGPbSafSpI)

[Tombie]

No... just No!

Rubber doesn’t “dry” out.

[AK83]

No... just No!

Rubber doesn’t “dry” out.

Fair nuff, and the fact that it came from SK(youtube) also makes me doubt it too .. maybe it does do something, but I'm 'not a fan' of that bloke so hard to accept his 'advice' anyhow.

@ Tombie: I dunno zip about materials tech, but then what makes those very tiny crack/fractures in the rubber balloon part of the air bag. Hard to see them until you actually go looking for them.
Is that not 'drying out' , or just plain old stress fracturing type of thing, or something.

I know Ozone stresses(or drys out) rubber, seen it on old tyres that otherwise were in new condition in terms of tread. Maybe just a case of being 10 years old, hard usage, a bit of Ozone and UV attack?

[DiscoJeffster]

Fair nuff, and the fact that it came from SK(youtube) also makes me doubt it too .. maybe it does do something, but I'm 'not a fan' of that bloke so hard to accept his 'advice' anyhow.

@ Tombie: I dunno zip about materials tech, but then what makes those very tiny crack/fractures in the rubber balloon part of the air bag. Hard to see them until you actually go looking for them.
Is that not 'drying out' , or just plain old stress fracturing type of thing, or something.

I know Ozone stresses(or drys out) rubber, seen it on old tyres that otherwise were in new condition in terms of tread. Maybe just a case of being 10 years old, hard usage, a bit of Ozone and UV attack?

Rubber naturally degrades as free radicals cause organic chains to breakdown and reform. It’s not reversible despite what people tell you. Depending on how it’s breaking down, eg oxygen, ozone it may occur on the surface so a “treatment” to the surface may improve the lustre of the finish and rubbing the degraded top surface off can improve appearance. It’s still degrading and there’s not much you can do to change that. This damage happens more at stress points, hence why cv boots split - constant rotation and stretching. Protecting it from oxygen and avoiding radiation (UV) will help somewhat eg some UV protectant coatings etc.

There are some great scholarly articles on the topic.

[Tombie]

Yup.. that’ll cover it [emoji41]

With engine seals - those fluids that they add are essentially like adding brake fluid to NBR. It makes the rubber soften and swell. For a short time it looks like it’s restored... and then it turns to “cheese” and breaks apart.

Ozone and UV do the most harm to automotive rubber.
As does oil leaking onto rubber not designed for oil. Think coolant hoses etc.

[DiscoJeffster]

Yup.. that’ll cover it [emoji41]

With engine seals - those fluids that they add are essentially like adding brake fluid to NBR. It makes the rubber soften and swell. For a short time it looks like it’s restored... and then it turns to “cheese” and breaks apart.

Ozone and UV do the most harm to automotive rubber.
As does oil leaking onto rubber not designed for oil. Think coolant hoses etc.

Yes all the small vacuum hoses that were leaked on by the throttle body are all soft and gooey now.

[jh972]

13 years, 300k, no probs