D5 Disaster

[Plat79]

Hi everyone

Wanted to share my experience with the D5. Dont typically criticise car markers in forums but this has been beyond a joke.

Bought a TD4 HSE in late 2017. Since then:

- first day the car was delivered the air suspension broke. Landrover fixed it.
-first day the car was returned to us. The air suspension broke. Again. Landrover fixed it.
-relatively ok run since then but still issues all the time.
-wife driving along and drivers door comes unlocked and pops out.
-reverse camera often does not work or screen goes blank.
-then last week another cracker. Drop of water falls into steering wheel. Then progressively water starts falling across front interior onto steering wheel, dash, console. Cup holders full of water.
-landrover repairs. All of front removed. Wiring checked. Parts replaced. And now we have it back apparently ok, until the next thing.
-and they have updated the software and it looks like something out of a 1998 Calais.

Sorry to be negative but this car is shocking. Has anyone else had this kind of experience? Lucky I got them to give me a 5 year warranty at the start. Getting rid of it and picking up a humble Mazda or Toyota.

[shack]

Sorry to hear all of that, I don't think what you have experienced is the normal.

I only know of one guy myself who has one and he loves it, someone else may be able to help you more.

[BobD]

The latest issue with the water appears to be due to a leaking windscreen which is becoming a common problem. There are some reports of leaking windscreens on the D5 Owners Facebook page.

Obviously if the infotainment screen is not right the software has not been properly updated and they need to do it again properly. The dealer appears to be pretty poor so perhaps go to another one. The are a few in Sydney.

Infotainment issues are common but can be fixed and should have been fixed by now. Again, get another dealer to do it properly. Most D5 and Discovery Sport issues appear to have been related to the infotainment but they should have been fixed by now if there were initial problems with your car.

Never heard of suspension problems and you don't say what the broken suspension is but the system has been around for a long time and once fixed should not be a problem.

[scarry]

There are also many not so good reports about them in forums overseas.
But then again it’s usually only the vehicles with issues that appear in the forums,one would think there are some around that are fine.

Noticed WhiteD is also having more issues with his on here as well.

We have looked extensively at many brands and types of vehicles over the last 6 months or so,and have now ordered another brand,to replace our D4.

[Plat79]

The latest issue with the water appears to be due to a leaking windscreen which is becoming a common problem. There are some reports of leaking windscreens on the D5 Owners Facebook page.

Obviously if the infotainment screen is not right the software has not been properly updated and they need to do it again properly. The dealer appears to be pretty poor so perhaps go to another one. The are a few in Sydney.

Infotainment issues are common but can be fixed and should have been fixed by now. Again, get another dealer to do it properly. Most D5 and Discovery Sport issues appear to have been related to the infotainment but they should have been fixed by now if there were initial problems with your car.

Never heard of suspension problems and you don't say what the broken suspension is but the system has been around for a long time and once fixed should not be a problem.

Hi Bob. The air suspension would not move out of low mode. It completely malfunctioned.

Then they repaired it. And same day we heard a sound like a tyre deflating. same thing happened again.

Thanks for other responses.

Sorry to come on and bag the car on an enthusiast's forum. I love it otherwise but cannot look past this raft of issues.

[4bee]

That is quite understandable to me especially if you don't know what is going to fail next. I guess you drive out while holding your breath?

[Lukeis]

There are also many not so good reports about them in forums overseas.
But then again it’s usually only the vehicles with issues that appear in the forums,one would think there are some around that are fine.

Noticed WhiteD is also having more issues with his on here as well.

We have looked extensively at many brands and types of vehicles over the last 6 months or so,and have now ordered another brand,to replace our D4.

Given stories like the above I would be open to another brand of car so keen to hear what you have decided? I haven’t found anything I would like as much as the D4 or D5 yet. Others either don’t have the capabilities (BMW, Merc, Audi etc) or don’t have the style (Land cruiser).

[drivesafe]

Hi scrary, and like Lukeis, I too would be very interested in what you decide to do.

After 23 years and 6 new Land Rovers, I would never buy another one, and after the hell LRA put us through, if I even gave it the slightest consideration, I think my wife would divorce me.

At this time, I have given up on 4x4ing, as like Lukeis, I can’t find anything that meets my needs, and even if Land Rovers were not so unreliable, the new ones fall way short of what they use to be, so would not be considered anyway.

[Lukeis]

At this time, I have given up on 4x4ing, as like Lukeis, I can’t find anything that meets my needs, and even if Land Rovers were not so unreliable, the new ones fall way short of what they use to be, so would not be considered anyway.

In what ways do you think they fall short? I’m happy with the capabilities of the D5, it’s only the fear of the reliability issues that puts me off.

My thinking goes, I’ll shouldnt buy a 2017 or 2018 D5 as I expect it takes more than a year for the issues of a new model worked out but then I’m left with a 2019 model for 90k and only a very short warranty left 12-18months which is perhaps too much money for such a short guarantee left.

the 2016 D4 is a consideration because then I get the 600nm torque and the 8speed gearbox but it’s getting old now and I’ve had the D4 for years already and not sure I want the same looking car for another 4 years.

Very tough to decide. Very sorry to hear of your pain plat79

[BobD]

I bought my 2019 D5 demo (May 2019 production date) last month for $104000 drive away with a five year unlimited km factory warranty and 4000km on the clock. Don't be too sure about current prices until you have a good look around. The warranty on a demo in WA starts from when the new owner (me) takes delivery but I don't think other states have this legislation. Mine is an SDV6 SE with full surround camera, adaptive cruise control and many other options. Now up to 11000km with no issues.

[brumby]

Our August 2017 D5 V6 HSE has been a pleasure to own and drive and we have recently passed 60000 km without a problem. The much lighter weight than our beloved D3 means better performance, less brake wear and I expect tyre wear.
After owning Land Rovers and Alfa Romeos for many years the secret is to find a good independant workshop and follow the maintenance schedule. We miss a few things about the D3 like its glass roof and corners you can see but the D5 has lots of nice features too.

[drivesafe]

In what ways do you think they fall short? I’m happy with the capabilities of the D5, it’s only the fear of the reliability issues that puts me off.
Hi Lukeis, after owning two L322 RRs and a D3 and D4, the D5 is just to small inside and a lower ride hight. We bought both the D3 and D4 as people movers, so the difference is quite relevant.

But I must admit, after buying a Tiguan originally intended as a town car, the lower ride hight on long trips is not missed now.

[rar110]

Im sorry to hear about your car troubles. I agree with above and try a different dealer.

I don’t know if belongs to anyone here, but there’s a very nice looking 2017 D5 TDV6 on Carsales for sale. The very honest advert says the motor was replaced at about 69,000km. I thought the TDV6 engine issues were resolved by the D5 era.

[BobD]

Hi Lukeis, after owning two L322 RRs and a D3 and D4, the D5 is just to small inside and a lower ride hight. We bought both the D3 and D4 as people movers, so the difference is quite relevant.

But I must admit, after buying a Tiguan originally intended as a town car, the lower ride hight on long trips is not missed now.

I find the D5 higher than the D4 (more of a step up to get into it) and I just measured the boot and the rear seat and found the seat to be wider than the D4 and the rear boot almost identical. You sit just as high but can't see the corners due to the rounded edges. What do you mean by "ride height"?

Edit: I just put the rear seats in their forward most position and the boot of the D5 is 100mm longer than the D4 boot. I can't see any evidence that any part of the D5 is smaller inside than the D4. It may look smaller but obviously it is not!

[scarry]

I thought the TDV6 engine issues were resolved by the D5 era.

Strange as it is,they were never resolved for the 3.0L.

Yet the Ford Territory,and the D4 2.7 didn’t have the same issues.

All a bit wierd.

[Numb Thumbs]

One difference might be the height in the boot. But I do not load mine any higher than the tops of the back seats, so it is irrelevant to me...

Cheers
Numb Thumbs ;)

[BobD]

One difference might be the height in the boot. But I do not load mine any higher than the tops of the back seats, so it is irrelevant to me...

Cheers
Numb Thumbs ;)

Yes, agreed. The rear door and the sides of the boot slope inwards a lot more than the D4 but only really above the tops of the back seats. That might be what drivesafe was referring to.

[Arapiles]

I was looking at low kms, late model D4s online and started comparing against D5s - a lot of the D4s and D5s were about the same price, notwithstanding that the D4s were obviously a couple of years older. Which would suggest that there's an ongoing appreciation for the D4.

[Lukeis]

Possibly some appreciation mixed with owners being a bit unrealistic - there are definitely a couple of D4’s that are for sale now with prices well above what they will ever achieve.

back to the OP I also agree, I wouldn’t let the air suspension issues be a catalyst for changing vehicles as mine is 9 years old with air suspension and despite having to replace the compressor when it became too slow it Otherwise works faultlessly each time. I would really struggle to have a car without it given how the car behaves like a road car around town and then has the best clearance of all for the beach and levels itself for towing

[drivesafe]

I find the D5 higher than the D4 (more of a step up to get into it) and I just measured the boot and the rear seat and found the seat to be wider than the D4 and the rear boot almost identical. You sit just as high but can't see the corners due to the rounded edges. What do you mean by "ride height"?

Edit: I just put the rear seats in their forward most position and the boot of the D5 is 100mm longer than the D4 boot. I can't see any evidence that any part of the D5 is smaller inside than the D4. It may look smaller but obviously it is not!
As I posted earlier, we used our D3 and D4 as people movers, and you could comfortably seat 7 full sided adults in these discos.

You are flat-out fitting 5 full sized adults a two SMALL children in a D5.

[scarry]

I was looking at low kms, late model D4s online and started comparing against D5s - a lot of the D4s and D5s were about the same price, notwithstanding that the D4s were obviously a couple of years older. Which would suggest that there's an ongoing appreciation for the D4.

A good late model D4 is a sort after vehicle,as was the D2a when the D3 arrived.

What the prices do show is the depreciation of the D5 is pretty high,same as most LR products.

[DirtDigger]

im in same boat. Day 1@ 50km only, hose came off a small heat exchanger. Coolant loss. Front Windscreen ..well known issue..the seal doesnt bond. Yet still no recall by JLR A. Mine suddenly leaked few weeks ago. Rear locking differential would bind when taking off with very crunching noise.thats been totally replaced. Rear door seals malaligned. Replaced. Constant issues with info system failing to memorise log in. Upgrades several been done..less problematic now. Battery replaced after few K' . Always flat next morning. Replaced and no issues since for 12 months.
Im looking at 2021 & new LC300. Get rid of this unreliable worst I've had. D4 had several reliability issues but nothing like this pile of problems. Nice car to drive & fab in the bush but LR is crap reliable. Im going back to LC.. had several for decades. Thought the LR would have been better..wrong I am!

[Lukeis]

im in same boat. Day 1@ 50km only, hose came off a small heat exchanger. Coolant loss. Front Windscreen ..well known issue..the seal doesnt bond. Yet still no recall by JLR A. Mine suddenly leaked few weeks ago. Rear locking differential would bind when taking off with very crunching noise.thats been totally replaced. Rear door seals malaligned. Replaced. Constant issues with info system failing to memorise log in. Upgrades several been done..less problematic now. Battery replaced after few K' . Always flat next morning. Replaced and no issues since for 12 months.
Im looking at 2021 & new LC300. Get rid of this unreliable worst I've had. D4 had several reliability issues but nothing like this pile of problems. Nice car to drive & fab in the bush but LR is crap reliable. Im going back to LC.. had several for decades. Thought the LR would have been better..wrong I am!

And this is why resale is bad, no one wants to pay a lot as all these problems would costs a fortune to replace once warranty runs out.
Which year/version?

[INter674]

im in same boat. Day 1@ 50km only, hose came off a small heat exchanger. Coolant loss. Front Windscreen ..well known issue..the seal doesnt bond. Yet still no recall by JLR A. Mine suddenly leaked few weeks ago. Rear locking differential would bind when taking off with very crunching noise.thats been totally replaced. Rear door seals malaligned. Replaced. Constant issues with info system failing to memorise log in. Upgrades several been done..less problematic now. Battery replaced after few K' . Always flat next morning. Replaced and no issues since for 12 months.
Im looking at 2021 & new LC300. Get rid of this unreliable worst I've had. D4 had several reliability issues but nothing like this pile of problems. Nice car to drive & fab in the bush but LR is crap reliable. Im going back to LC.. had several for decades. Thought the LR would have been better..wrong I am!


Not trying to defend LR but remember the LC200 had many issues when new and still does eg air filtration system...DPF. ..rubbish auto..diff failure..gvm crap etc

Hopefully the new cruiser won't but there's no 100% fault free guarrantee with any new car..hence ever expanding warranties.

Have to say that Toyota/dealers seem more approachable to fix their faults tho...eg daughters RAV rear suspension arm failure...3 recalls in USA plus deaths....but no recall here 🤤 A bit of arm twisting was needed but they did replace the dud parts...eventually.

[scarry]

im in same boat. Day 1@ 50km only, hose came off a small heat exchanger. Coolant loss. Front Windscreen ..well known issue..the seal doesnt bond. Yet still no recall by JLR A. Mine suddenly leaked few weeks ago. Rear locking differential would bind when taking off with very crunching noise.thats been totally replaced. Rear door seals malaligned. Replaced. Constant issues with info system failing to memorise log in. Upgrades several been done..less problematic now. Battery replaced after few K' . Always flat next morning. Replaced and no issues since for 12 months.
Im looking at 2021 & new LC300. Get rid of this unreliable worst I've had. D4 had several reliability issues but nothing like this pile of problems. Nice car to drive & fab in the bush but LR is crap reliable. Im going back to LC.. had several for decades. Thought the LR would have been better..wrong I am!


Heaps of these sorts of posts on other forums,as well,another reason we didn’t want one.

For the numbers of late model LC200 around,there are very,very few issues,but then again,it’s been around for a while,and is not as complicated as a D5.

Let’s hope the New Defender is a lot better,although there are a few posts on the UK Defender sites with a few issues.

[Lukeis]

I suppose it’s a fairly simple equation.. The less you innovate and the less you pack in to a car = the less things break.

The technology for the LC200 or 79 series is basic and it’s more or less the same car for years not which is the saving grace for them.

Although if LR can’t stick a simple windscreen in without water leaks then you shouldn’t be making cars.

I have another month before I get back to Sydney and start looking for a new car.. what to do, what to do!

[scarry]

I suppose it’s a fairly simple equation.. The less you innovate and the less you pack in to a car = the less things break.

The technology for the LC200 or 79 series is basic and it’s more or less the same car for years not which is the saving grace for them.

o!

Not taking sides,but I have this ‘discussion’ with one of my brothers all the time,and he is an LR nut.

Do LR actually innovate these days?Sure years ago they were first with coils and airbags,in 4X4,s,etc.

With Ford,they developed the brilliant Terrain response system with EAS,but that was quite a few years ago.

These days,I don’t think they do much innovating?

They probably do a small amount,as do all manufacturers.

Is the best way to go forward,make highly complicated vehicles,and risk unreliability,that leads to a bad reputation?

Or make basic type vehicles,copy the others,improve the design,make them ultra reliable,and sell them in huge numbers,with a pretty good reputation.

If I was in the vehicle manufacturing business,I know what I would be doing.

[4bee]

I suppose it’s a fairly simple equation.. The less you innovate and the less you pack in to a car = the less things break.

The technology for the LC200 or 79 series is basic and it’s more or less the same car for years not which is the saving grace for them.

Although if LR can’t stick a simple windscreen in without water leaks then you shouldn’t be making cars.

I have another month before I get back to Sydney and start looking for a new car.. what to do, what to do!



What to do?

Ditch it & buy a treadly, they don't have windscreens.[bigrolf]

[4bee]

Not taking sides,but I have this ‘discussion’ with one of my brothers all the time,and he is an LR nut.

Do LR actually innovate these days?Sure years ago they were first with coils and airbags,in 4X4,s,etc.

With Ford,they developed the brilliant Terrain response system with EAS,but that was quite a few years ago.

These days,I don’t think they do much innovating?

They probably do a small amount,as do all manufacturers.

Is the best way to go forward,make highly complicated vehicles,and risk unreliability,that leads to a bad reputation?

Or make basic type vehicles,copy the others,improve the design,make them ultra reliable,and sell them in huge numbers,with a pretty good reputation.

If I was in the vehicle manufacturing business,I know what I would be doing.


Not Ashtrays these days Paul, but who makes the best cup holder?

[scarry]

Not Ashtrays these days Paul, but who makes the best cup holder?

There is six in the later model vans,one in each door pocket,two in centre console,two in dash slide out contraption,but only has two seats,so is more best?[biggrin][tonguewink]

[4bee]

There is six in the later model vans,one in each door pocket,two in centre console,two in dash slide out contraption,but only has two seats,so is more best?[biggrin][tonguewink]

I trust they are better than the D1 Update slide out contraptions. You went for the Hi/Lo knob & the cup holder shot out just when you needed your hand. Never even had a velcro ribbon setup to keep it in place. I Duct Taped it in permanently. Well, until the tape dried out.

Ah the good olde days eh?[bigrolf]

[scarry]

I trust they are better than the D1 Update slide out contraptions. You went for the Hi/Lo knob & the cup holder shot out just when you needed your hand. Never even had a velcro ribbon setup to keep it in place. I Duct Taped it in permanently. Well, until the tape dried out.

Ah the good olde days eh?[bigrolf]

Well at least that is better than the series one...[wink11]

[4bee]

Well at least that is better than the series one...[wink11]


That'd be the Canvas Water Bag on the front bumper cupholders? You were probably posh & had a proper frame on the bumper to keep said bag out of the ****.

[BradC]

If I was in the vehicle manufacturing business,I know what I would be doing.

So do the Koreans.

[Lukeis]

Not taking sides,but I have this ‘discussion’ with one of my brothers all the time,and he is an LR nut.

Do LR actually innovate these days?Sure years ago they were first with coils and airbags,in 4X4,s,etc.

With Ford,they developed the brilliant Terrain response system with EAS,but that was quite a few years ago.

These days,I don’t think they do much innovating?

They probably do a small amount,as do all manufacturers.

Is the best way to go forward,make highly complicated vehicles,and risk unreliability,that leads to a bad reputation?

Or make basic type vehicles,copy the others,improve the design,make them ultra reliable,and sell them in huge numbers,with a pretty good reputation.

If I was in the vehicle manufacturing business,I know what I would be doing.

I’d count a new model with a new chassis as innovation, 100nm more torque on the SDV6 in 2019 as well.
while not innovation the inclusion of heated and cooled seats, massage seats, heated steering wheels, mirrors etc, lane guidance, parking assist, tow assist, adaptive cruise. Assisted braking, electric fold rear seats, auto lowering tailgate and all the other technologies which go with the new cars all have the ability to cause issues later - I’m unsure of the LC200 includes any of these?

[INter674]

Having bought and sold cars for years I learnt to avoid brand new cars and instead bought the last of the model concerned. Our worst car by far was a brand new Holden VR Calais..what a dog. Spent more time at Motors on the hoist than in our shed.

The run out Paj looks the best of the current new cars in terms of value for money..proven reliability off road capability.etc. But it's a dinosaur compared to even the D4.

LR do innovate..look at the chassis of the D5..its amazing engineering with massive weight saving. Then look at a 200s chassis which yota will prolly change if they are to meet safety and efficiency requirements.

I think most current new car offerings are becoming quite stale and many are not suited to AULRO members needs.

As one comnentator said LR have blurred the line between a normal sedan and an amazing capable large off road touring vehicle.

Who else has done that?

[INter674]

I’d count a new model with a new chassis as innovation, 100nm more torque on the SDV6 in 2019 as well.
while not innovation the inclusion of heated and cooled seats, massage seats, heated steering wheels, mirrors etc, lane guidance, parking assist, tow assist, adaptive cruise. Assisted braking, electric fold rear seats, auto lowering tailgate and all the other technologies which go with the new cars all have the ability to cause issues later - I’m unsure of the LC200 includes any of these?


You beat me to it..re chassis...well said☺

[scarry]

I’d count a new model with a new chassis as innovation, 100nm more torque on the SDV6 in 2019 as well.
while not innovation the inclusion of heated and cooled seats, massage seats, heated steering wheels, mirrors etc, lane guidance, parking assist, tow assist, adaptive cruise. Assisted braking, electric fold rear seats, auto lowering tailgate and all the other technologies which go with the new cars all have the ability to cause issues later - I’m unsure of the LC200 includes any of these?

Sahara has most,if not all,of those features plus more.Even the top model Prado has most,if not all of them as well.And that is without having to add extras.LR seem to have all these added extras at huge cost.In fact looking at their model runs,then adding extras for this and that,and some have to have this as well,is a bit messy.

FWIW,apart from the safety features,the other features don't interest us at all.

As for alloy chassis,i don't know,but many brands have been using alloy in their vehicles for years to reduce weight.Its nothing new.
Some have probably had alloy chassis,or parts of the chassis.

As for engines,other European manufacturers have similar capacities, designed with similar,or better power outputs for a while.

[INter674]

Sahara has most,if not all,of those features plus more.Even the top model Prado has most,if not all of them as well.And that is without having to add extras.LR seem to have all these added extras at huge cost.In fact looking at their model runs,then adding extras for this and that,and some have to have this as well,is a bit messy.

FWIW,apart from the safety features,the other features don't interest us at all.

As for alloy chassis,i don't know,but many brands have been using alloy in their vehicles for years to reduce weight.Its nothing new.
Some have probably had alloy chassis,or parts of the chassis.

As for engines,other European manufacturers have similar capacities, designed with similar,or better power outputs for a while.

After reading you're posts..which are usually very informative..I have come to the conclusion you are simply on the wrong forum😚

No offence but really you are struggling to put down the LR chassis engineering with your last sentence on that topic!

Anyhow I respect you're right to provide comment and support for other brands but the fact is they are followers not leaders wrt many LR features and innovations.

[4bee]

I’d count a new model with a new chassis as innovation, 100nm more torque on the SDV6 in 2019 as well.
while not innovation the inclusion of heated and cooled seats, massage seats, heated steering wheels, mirrors etc, lane guidance, parking assist, tow assist, adaptive cruise. Assisted braking, electric fold rear seats, auto lowering tailgate and all the other technologies which go with the new cars all have the ability to cause issues later - I’m unsure of the LC200 includes any of these?

Every one of those points incorporates a Sensor or two of some sort & from what I read on here Sensors can give a whole **** load of grief. Not exactly what you need when in Outback & isolated conditions.

I bet good olde boy Len Beadell had more problems with his survey equipment than he did with all his models of Series Rovers put together.


Just Sayin'

[scarry]

but the fact is they are followers not leaders wrt many LR features and innovations.

Correct,which is exactly what i said on another post[thumbsupbig]

Not only do they copy LR,but also many other brands,which is what the Koreans have recently excelled themselves at as well.

[PerthDisco]

Every one of those points incorporates a Sensor or two of some sort & from what I read on here Sensors can give a whole **** load of grief. Not exactly what you need when in Outback & isolated conditions.

I bet good olde boy Len Beadell had more problems with his survey equipment than he did with all his models of Series Rovers put together.


Just Sayin'

Repairing flat staked tyres kept him pretty busy most days before several leisurely hours of star gazin’ before turning in a few hours before dawn.

[Graeme]

Every one of those points incorporates a Sensor or two of some sort & from what I read on here Sensors can give a whole **** load of grief. Not exactly what you need when in Outback & isolated conditions.None of those facilities would affect the ability to travel when in remote areas if it was to become inoperative so no reason to avoid vehicles with them fitted. What I see as a problem when anywhere is LR's insistence on resorting to extreme limp modes for their engines when correlation mismatches occur whereas curtaining top-end performance is all that should be done. LR got it right with the TD5 by using default values for sensors that appeared faulty and limiting boost to the mechanical waste-gate whereby the vehicle still performed quite well. The only sensor required to run the TD5 was the crankshaft position sensor as all the others could be disconnected without gross performance reduction.

[BradC]

Anyhow I respect you're right to provide comment and support for other brands but the fact is they are followers not leaders wrt many LR features and innovations.

Kinda reminds me of Xerox. They innovated and were always breaking down, so they built a great service network to support their innovative product. Canon copied, but built copiers that just worked. Yeah, they were a generation behind, but you can't put a price on it "just works" and they cleaned Xerox's clock as a result.

So, while I agree LR are innovators, they are persistently incapable of coming up with anything that approaches reliability and they are steadfast in hiding under the table rather than standing by their product. Their disdain for suckersowners is legendary. If they actually did build reliable vehicles, they wouldn't have the roundly deserved reputation that invites ridicule from drivers of "appliances".

[4bee]

Kinda reminds me of Xerox. They innovated and were always breaking down, so they built a great service network to support their innovative product. Canon copied, but built copiers that just worked. Yeah, they were a generation behind, but you can't put a price on it "just works" and they cleaned Xerox's clock as a result.

So, while I agree LR are innovators, they are persistently incapable of coming up with anything that approaches reliability and they are steadfast in hiding under the table rather than standing by their product. Their disdain for suckersowners is legendary. If they actually did build reliable vehicles, they wouldn't have the roundly deserved reputation that invites ridicule from drivers of "appliances".


Wot you sayin' Willis, their ridicule doesn't arise from being jealous as buggery? [bigrolf]

[PhilipA]

I must say that I do not think that LR are the innovators that many think.
For example many innovations are designed and sold to carmakers by companies like ZF and Robert Bosch.
These companies are the ones who developed the dreaded electric handbrake, the multi speed auto transmissions, and the combined alternator/electric motor used in the PHEV. In addition companies like this do the development of computer systems and drivetrain . Lemforder developed the hydro bushes in the FCAs .
The screens would be developed by vendors such as Siemens and the CANBUS developed by specialist companies.
All LR does is select which premium features they want in the vehicles and this depends on what the market will bear. the vendore then customise the offering to LR.
The hydroforming chassis process used in D3/D$ was developed by Ford, or probably a vendor to Ford .

The motors are Ford etc until the Millenium which has it appears been a disaster so far.

IMHO one of the few systems that LR developed was and is the air suspension, and were the only manufacturer even up until now who are game to take the engineering risk, which is mainly borne by the poor customers. Few other manufacturers have been game although Mercedes and Porsche have variations.
Electric brakes as in the new Defender were offered by Mercedes in the mid 2000s and they were a disaster. these were developed by Robert Bosche. I hope Bosche has now perfected the design.
Even back in teh old days the ECU program in the TD5 D2A has "property of Volvo" all over the place if it is run as a text file.
Regards PhilipA

[4bee]

None of those facilities would affect the ability to travel when in remote areas if it was to become inoperative so no reason to avoid vehicles with them fitted. What I see as a problem when anywhere is LR's insistence on resorting to extreme limp modes for their engines when correlation mismatches occur whereas curtaining top-end performance is all that should be done. LR got it right with the TD5 by using default values for sensors that appeared faulty and limiting boost to the mechanical waste-gate whereby the vehicle still performed quite well. The only sensor required to run the TD5 was the crankshaft position sensor as all the others could be disconnected without gross performance reduction.

That is fair comment if true, so everyone who has complained about ****ty sensors is bull****ting?

I don't own one nor is it my wish to, (my LR days are well gone after owning a D1 Facelift & they didn't have many or none at all) but just recalling comments made by posters on here from time to time & the need to use a "gadget" to fault find the problem & find which one is giving grief.

[4bee]

Repairing flat staked tyres kept him pretty busy most days before several leisurely hours of star gazin’ before turning in a few hours before dawn.

And that would happen to any vehicle that Len used considering the virgin country that he was Surveying, & the Bulldozer & Grader followed his track afterwards in that order..:TakeABow:


Better him than me I can tell you.:Rolling:

[scarry]

I must say that I do not think that LR are the innovators that many think.

Exactly,but some seem to think otherwise.........[bigsad][biggrin]

Like i said,many years ago maybe,but not really these days.

4Bee,but a good,and thats what i mean,good Fridgie can sort anything,so you would be fine with your FFRR,out in the Simpson Desert,with a faulty sensor,easy as.Not much different than a faulty coil senser on an electronic TX valve in a freezer cabinet.If you do have a real issue,you can give Rick130 a call on the Sat phone[biggrin][biggrin][bighmmm]

[4bee]

Exactly,but some seem to have rose coloured glasses........[bigsad][biggrin]

4Bee,but a good,and thats what i mean,good Fridgie can sort anything,so you would be fine with your FFRR,out in the Simpson Desert,with a faulty sensor,easy as.Not much different than a faulty coil senser on an electronic TX valve in a freezer cabinet.If you do have a real issue,you can give Rick130 a call on the Sat phone[biggrin][biggrin][bighmmm]

FWIW, I think you are confusing me with another lookalike, wannabee 4bee who drives an FFR. Wannabee? Kidding ain't yer?

Rick would probably advise a length of unfused 18g Fencing Wire, Galvd of course, because he's a stickler for authenticity.

I do him an injustice. I reckon he'd quit the cabinet he was on & drive out to help me. I hope.[bigrolf]

[scarry]

FWIW, I think you are confusing me with another lookalike, wannabee 4bee who drives an FFR. Wannabee? Kidding ain't yer?

Rick would probably advise a length of unfused 18g Fencing Wire, Galvd of course, because he's a stickler for authenticity.

I do him an injustice. I reckon he's quit the cabinet he was on & drive out to help me. I hope.[bigrolf]

Nah,the wire won't work,what about some 1.62mm capillary,Rick will just have to work out the length,then the pressure drop will create the correct resistance,yep all sorted[thumbsupbig]
Maybe we should be LR techs?

[rick130]

Exactly,but some seem to think otherwise.........[bigsad][biggrin]

Like i said,many years ago maybe,but not really these days.

4Bee,but a good,and thats what i mean,good Fridgie can sort anything,so you would be fine with your FFRR,out in the Simpson Desert,with a faulty sensor,easy as.Not much different than a faulty coil senser on an electronic TX valve in a freezer cabinet.If you do have a real issue,you can give Rick130 a call on the Sat phone[biggrin][biggrin][bighmmm]
FWIW, I think you are confusing me with another lookalike, wannabee 4bee who drives an FFR. Wannabee? Kidding ain't yer?

Rick would probably advise a length of unfused 18g Fencing Wire, Galvd of course, because he's a stickler for authenticity.

I do him an injustice. I reckon he's quit the cabinet he was on & drive out to help me. I hope.[bigrolf]
Nah,the wire won't work,what about some 1.62mm capillary,Rick will just have to work out the length,then the pressure drop will create the correct resistance,yep all sorted[thumbsupbig]
Maybe we should be LR techs?WTF are you two rabbiting on about? [emoji848][emoji23][emoji23]

Are you psychic Paul?
I was talking the young bloke through today how to setup the drier, what the big spin copper thing was (accumulator) how to charge, etc a capillary system.
He's fine with Racks and big DX AC systems but has had no experience yet with your standard Skope bottle cabinet. [emoji23]

I'm half way through a Clare Valley Shiraz and intend on finishing it so please, no callouts tonight Des, I'll blot my copybook! [emoji15][emoji23]

[INter674]

Son's mate got the Paj GLS plus leather pack for 48k out of Adelaide plus 1100 for delivery to Tas unregisteted. Local dealer's best price was 55k. Full 7 year warranty still applies.

He also enquired about a used version with low ks for @40k but that sold same day. Dealer said they've been inundated with enquiries and sales.

Has to be the best buy around atm! Pity they might become a Nissan **** box next year. Oh well some car makers know how to do themselves in😐

[Lukeis]

Pajero can’t tow the 3.5 so that rules it out but you’ve gotta love seven years warranty!!

[4bee]

Nah,the wire won't work,what about some 1.62mm capillary,Rick will just have to work out the length,then the pressure drop will create the correct resistance,yep all sorted[thumbsupbig]
Maybe we should be LR techs?


What about 4mm just to be on the safe side?

Sounds like Rick is getting the hump 'cos you buggered up his enjoyment of his Shiraz.[bigrolf]

[scarry]

What about 4mm just to be on the safe side?

Sounds like Rick is getting the hump 'cos you buggered up his enjoyment of his Shiraz.[bigrolf]

Why not,thats 3/16 copper,so should be fine,just use 16meters,all good.[bighmmm]

Better make the most of the Shiraz,cos it won't be long before the phone will ring......[bigsad]

Yer capillary systems trick many,particularly fan mechanics.

[Arapiles]

Correct,which is exactly what i said on another post[thumbsupbig]

Not only do they copy LR,but also many other brands,which is what the Koreans have recently excelled themselves at as well.


The Sorento's a good car, but I couldn't help but think that the gearshift set up for the new top model looked a little familiar .....



https://www.kia.com/content/dam/kwcms/au/en/images/showroom/sorento/interest-register/kia-all-new-sorento-features-gear-shifter.jpg




https://www.kia.com/content/dam/kwcms/au/en/images/showroom/sorento/interest-register/kia-all-new-sorento-features-drive-mode-selector.jpg

[scarry]

The Sorento's a good car, but I couldn't help but think that the gearshift set up for the new top model looked a little familiar .....

Hopefully they did a better job than JLR,many of those failed and were replaced under warranty,early on,around 2013/14.

[Graeme]

They were thought to have failed but a s/w change to allow slightly more time for it to start to raise was all that was required.

[rick130]

Why not,thats 3/16 copper,so should be fine,just use 16meters,all good.[bighmmm]

Better make the most of the Shiraz,cos it won't be long before the phone will ring......[bigsad]

Yer capillary systems trick many,particularly fan mechanics.I'm not on call but the young bloke did ring to have a whinge about a new portal we need to use for the Fresh Food People.
He was just leaving Maclean and on his way to Cabarita. [emoji50]

[INter674]

Pajero can’t tow the 3.5 so that rules it out but you’ve gotta love seven years warranty!!

It's not registered yet so he could do a toyota type towing/gvm upgrade i guess and still be miles ahead on price and reliability...ever heard of a Paj busting cvs or having air box or oil consumption issues..or dpf..or ..or ..or☺

This guy is a very smart buyer with an obsession for research. And towing 3.5t is not on his agenda but 7 seats plus all the other Paj features are. Great sound system too☺

But..still not as good a car to drive as a D4. He looked at D4s and whilst he really liked them the endless carping about reliability issues with the TDs put him off..plus of course age and no warranty.

[scarry]

It's not registered yet so he could do a toyota type towing/gvm upgrade i guess and still be miles ahead on price and reliability...ever heard of a Paj busting cvs or having air box or oil consumption issues..or dpf..or ..or ..or☺


That may help GVM,if available,but won't help GCM.

But i do stand to be corrected.[bighmmm][biggrin]

[4bee]

I'm not on call but the young bloke did ring to have a whinge about a new portal we need to use for the Fresh Food People.
He was just leaving Maclean and on his way to Cabarita. [emoji50]


Was he taking WW weekly stock of bendy yellowish green things for them?

[INter674]

That may help GVM,if available,but won't help GCM.

But i do stand to be corrected.[bighmmm][biggrin]

Kits are available to get to 3000 with increased ball weight..you can go higher before registration with engineer's certification. Pity Mitsu state a GCM which can be an issue whereas Toyota don't. I believe..which provides more flexibility pre rego esp for insurance purposes. He's gonna get a small van..eventually..so all's good.

[rick130]

Was he taking WW weekly stock of bendy yellowish green things for them?Not too much of those grown here anymore, North Qld has cornered the market there.

Still quite a bit of sugar cane though, and lots of macadamia's, guava's etc up here on the plateau and in the hinterland

[4bee]

Not too much of those grown here anymore, North Qld has cornered the market there.

Still quite a bit of sugar cane though, and lots of macadamia's, guava's etc up here on the plateau and in the hinterland

Oh dear. The one I can recall was on the Southern Outskirts of Byron I think. Big Plantation, Indian owned/operated.


Probably named, as is the custom, "The Big Banana"[bighmmm]

[Discodicky]

The Sorento's a good car, but I couldn't help but think that the gearshift set up for the new top model looked a little familiar .....



https://www.kia.com/content/dam/kwcms/au/en/images/showroom/sorento/interest-register/kia-all-new-sorento-features-gear-shifter.jpg




https://www.kia.com/content/dam/kwcms/au/en/images/showroom/sorento/interest-register/kia-all-new-sorento-features-drive-mode-selector.jpg

4000 RPM @110kph!!
What gear is it in?????
..... or is it "just for illustration purposes" [bigrolf][bigrolf][bigrolf][bigrolf]

[Graeme]

Used 1/4 tank of fuel for 567 kms yet only 526 kms to refuel...

[PaulieJ]

I’m having consistent and regular issues with my MY19 D5 also. Back to the dealer again on Monday to have the rear diff stripped and assessed, had transfer case replaced already. Clunks, shudders, vibrations and constant issues with cameras, nav, blind spot monitors and reverse collision detection.
I’ve owned heaps of land rovers and every series of discovery - never had so many issues and agree with JLR being unhelpful and dis-interested...

[4bee]

never had so many issues and agree with JLR being unhelpful and dis-interested...


I guess it doesn't help the client if they have the Australian Distributorship by the 'nads.

[Barraman]

"Now up to 11000km with no issues."

Wow, that's amazing!

[Bulletman]

"Now up to 11000km with no issues."

Wow, that's amazing!

:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

Bulletman

[drivesafe]

I guess it doesn't help the client if they have the Australian Distributorship by the 'nads.
Hi 4bee and I know from personal experience that you have that back to front.

LRA are not being held by their “nads”, they are the problem.

I paid $170,000 for a new Range Rover. This was my 6th new Land Rover, so you would think LRA would appreciate the long term loyalty.

They couldn’t give a damn.

Their business ethos was and still is ”If you don’t like the way they treat you as a customers, tuff, there are a million other suckers out there. And their warranty in Australia is nothing more than a sales gimmick.

My Range Rover was literally failing as I drove it out of the showroom.

I was spending money on it to fix problems within 24 hours of leaving the showroom.

I took it to a dealers when it was just 3 months old, because the phone system did not work and the front seats were being torn by the plastic cowling around the base of the seat because it had a razor sharp edge pressing against the leather.

The dealer first tells me the phone don’t work in my model RR and then LRA state the torn seats were caused by ware and tare and as such, not covered by the warranty.

For the full 3 years of the warranty, every time I put the heap of garbage in for services, I told them the air suspension does not work, and every time I picked up the RR, I was told is was now working fine.

After owning the heap for 5.5 years, I found the problem with the air suspension and fixed it with a 5 cent cable tie. Until I fixed it, it was impossible for it to work, even back in the factory. So they never at any time fixed it or even attempted to.

At one stage, there were so many problems with my RR that LR in the UK found out about it and asked LRA to fix my RR.

All LRA did was send me an e-mail virtually saying sorry you didn’t like your RR, but tuff luck, they were not going to do a thing about it.

The real sting came when I had had enough, gave up and went to sell the RR. At just 3 years old, because it had so many factory oriented problems, it could not pass a Road Worthy Inspection, so I couldn’t sell it.

That scum had sold me an UNROADWORTHY vehicle and the above problems are just the tip of the iceberg of all the problems I had with that garbage box.

Two different legal firms told me I had a legitimate case, but both stated I was looking at anything up to $100,000 in legal costs to get the case against LRA.

This was 10 years ago and nothing has changed.

When I sold my RR this year, while is still had lots of little issues, there was actually more working on it when I sold it than when I drove it out of the showroom and it had cost us close to $300,000 for a vehicle that was never able to be used as it was supposed to be.

[4bee]

Hi 4bee and I know from personal experience that you have that back to front.

LRA are not being held by their “nads”, they are the problem.

I paid $170,000 for a new Range Rover. This was my 6th new Land Rover, so you would think LRA would appreciate the long term loyalty.

They couldn’t give a damn.

Their business ethos was and still is ”If you don’t like the way they treat you as a customers, tuff, there are a million other suckers out there. And their warranty in Australia is nothing more than a sales gimmick.

My Range Rover was literally failing as I drove it out of the showroom.

I was spending money on it to fix problems within 24 hours of leaving the showroom.

I took it to a dealers when it was just 3 months old, because the phone system did not work and the front seats were being torn by the plastic cowling around the base of the seat because it had a razor sharp edge pressing against the leather.

The dealer first tells me the phone don’t work in my model RR and then LRA state the torn seats were caused by ware and tare and as such, not covered by the warranty.

For the full 3 years of the warranty, every time I put the heap of garbage in for services, I told them the air suspension does not work, and every time I picked up the RR, I was told is was now working fine.

After owning the heap for 5.5 years, I found the problem with the air suspension and fixed it with a 5 cent cable tie. Until I fixed it, it was impossible for it to work, even back in the factory. So they never at any time fixed it or even attempted to.

At one stage, there were so many problems with my RR that LR in the UK found out about it and asked LRA to fix my RR.

All LRA did was send me an e-mail virtually saying sorry you didn’t like your RR, but tuff luck, they were not going to do a thing about it.

The real sting came when I had had enough, gave up and went to sell the RR. At just 3 years old, because it had so many factory oriented problems, it could not pass a Road Worthy Inspection, so I couldn’t sell it.

That scum had sold me an UNROADWORTHY vehicle and the above problems are just the tip of the iceberg of all the problems I had with that garbage box.

Two different legal firms told me I had a legitimate case, but both stated I was looking at anything up to $100,000 in legal costs to get the case against LRA.

This was 10 years ago and nothing has changed.

When I sold my RR this year, while is still had lots of little issues, there was actually more working on it when I sold it than when I drove it out of the showroom and it had cost us close to $300,000 for a vehicle that was never able to be used as it was supposed to be.



You are correct DS I got it arse about. I guess their performance will eventually, in years to come, send them to the wall one day.


It is hard to imagine such a crap attitude in this day & age & that will be instrumental in their downfall but seems they cannot see it. Their loss. Maybe they use LR poor performance as a Tax Write off for all their other Group businesses? Who knows?

[INter674]

Maybe JLR will need to do a Jeep type campaign to address their image and quality issues.

But having recent experience with Jeep in Hobart...for a common part which is known to fail which they basically said get stuffed...I am doubtful a sorry type campaign will save them.

Daughter's mate has a Jeep Hemi..costing well over a hundred grand which has a fuel pump issue that can destroy the engine. Jeep say nothing to see here. He's getting out of it asap..at great cost😐

Maybe JLR and Jeep could combine to take on VW as the world's greatest con artists 😎

[DiscoDB]

Some decent lemon laws would help. Once a new car is riddled with repeat or multiple issues it really should be replaced.

[Lukeis]

I’d love to understand the reality of owning a 2017 D5 in terms of people with issues vs those without.

For instance, id be willing to take a risk on a car with a sub 10% customer dissatisfaction rate given all the good stuff the car offers. however if that figure was closer to 50% of D5’s coming back numerous times then I’d keep a wide berth.

naturally we only hear of the bad issues on here so it’s very hard to get a good gauge.

I’d then like to know if that figure changes in 2018, 2019 to see if it is just initial teething problems for a new model.

I’m back in Sydney in one week and so far the only cars on my list to replace mine are:

D4 2016 model - added to my list this week due to issues with the new model
D5 2017-2018 (due to cost limit) - very close to removing out of fear
RR vogue 2015 (due to cost) - doesn’t appear to suffer the same amount of issues. Or perhaps just not written about as much?!

lacking any other brands on my wish list at the moment - needs to look good, tow, go off road, and fit baby seats in the back (therefore no dual cabs).

[Grumbles]

Some decent lemon laws would help. Once a new car is riddled with repeat or multiple issues it really should be replaced.

For lemon laws to happen the political will to pass the necessary legislation is needed. Our politicians do not have the appetite for that.

[4bee]

For lemon laws to happen the political will to pass the necessary legislation is needed. Our politicians do not have the appetite for that. Bloody unbelievable!

Those brave folk who sit their vehicles outside the Dealer's premises with a big sign giving it's story occasionally win their case, but one sure needs stamina & able to tolerate personal abuse before they get there.

[Lukeis]

For 100k I’d be willing to make a billboard

[4bee]

For 100k I’d be willing to make a billboard


With Flashing LED Chaser light strings culminating in an Arrow pointing at the Dealer's Pemises.

I'm sure the word SUKS could be incorporated in said signage.[bigrolf]

[Lukeis]

Have to choose your store carefully, Don’t buy from brookvale Land Rover, the street is a bus zone most of the day and the car would be towed before anyone see’s it.

[PerthDisco]

So who actually ’owns’ LRA? Is it a wholly owned subsidiary of LRUK / Tata? Or what s there some Dennis O’Neill type squillionaire person behind it?

Usually you got to get creative and find the top guy’s number and hassle him directly. Essentially go medieval in tactics as dealing with minions will go no where.

[4bee]

So who actually ’owns’ LRA? Is it a wholly owned subsidiary of LRUK / Tata? Or what s there some Dennis O’Neill type squillionaire person behind it?

Usually you got to get creative and find the top guy’s number and hassle him directly. Essentially go medieval in tactics as dealing with minions will go no where.


Medieval you say? Wot like drop the Portcullis on him/her & shove the bodies in the Moat from the Drawbridge, that sort of medieval? [bigrolf] Can't help with the top person but somewhere recently I saw a list of companies that were all tied together inc. LR. Now, whether that is an endeavor to make a smoke screen to confuse the disaffected I couldn't possibly say.

[PerthDisco]

It’s surprisingly easy with a little homework to find the top dog’s phone number or email and nothing annoys them more into action than a direct approach.

[discomaniac]

I have had my MY20 SE with SD6 since October last year. Have only had a minor issue with the entertainment system, but the current software upgrade has fixed all those issues. Now working great. Have done almost 20,000km with not a single other problem. Tows a 3T caravan great. No suspension issues. Great off road and comfortable on road, and the power of the SD6 is incredible. Happy owner so far. Check out the D5 Owners Group on FB. Plenty of happy owners there.