2015 TDV6 Snapped Crank

[M005]

Seems it's happened to me [bawl]

Sitting at lights and suddenly heard bang-bang-bang-bang (in time with the engine turning over) - turned off the motor (won't restart, just dead)

All signs point to the crank; March 2015 registered TDV6, 86k km and LR or specialist serviced (last serviced 2k km ago & just had gearbox serviced)

I'm aware of the service bulletins 'recognising' the fault, but has anyone ever had any luck in addressing the issue with LR Australia? I purchased from a main dealer (Pacific Land Rover) in February this year.

Is there a reputable source of remanufactured / refurbished / new engines? At reasonable cost?

[Eevo]

5 years isnt long.

[BrianElloy]

Mine is a 2016 TDV6 and as such I was hoping that I’d be immune to this problem

Guess not ... :(

[PerthDisco]

TDV6 2.7D yes - ex Ford Territory swap
TDV6 3.0D not so much

Definitely push the dealer but you may need to find a very good independent to assist.

Just hate seeing these posts and very sorry to hear.

[DiscoJeffster]

Mine is a 2016 TDV6 and as such I was hoping that I’d be immune to this problem

Guess not ... :(

There is no immunity to it. Just pray you’re not one of the percentage.

[scarry]

5 years isnt long.

86 000km isn’t far either[bigsad]

LR should come to the party if the vehicle has full service records,and hasn’t had any engine mods,tunes,etc.
One owner will help as well.

[gavinwibrow]

86 000km isn’t far either[bigsad]

LR should come to the party if the vehicle has full service records,and hasn’t had any engine mods,tunes,etc.
One owner will help as well.


Quote - "I purchased from a main dealer (Pacific Land Rover) in February this year " Unquote

Or are you assuming most of its life being with with PO will count?

[TuffRR]

Have a read of this....
https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/1449_ACL%20Motor%20vehicle%20sales%20and%20repairs _FA_WEB.pdf

There are avenues worth pursuing under consumer guarantees, but it will be an uphill battle with Land Rover and the dealer. But, for the money it will cost to replace the motor, definitely worth exploring.

[M005]

Thanks all & for the link TuffRR.

I'm second owner, but given cost will be pushing LR Hard.

Haven't yet been able to find a 3.0 'short' or 'crate' engine anywhere - do such things exist?

[DiscoJeffster]

They do. LR will sell you one for about $45k

[scarry]

Quote - "I purchased from a main dealer (Pacific Land Rover) in February this year " Unquote

Or are you assuming most of its life being with with PO will count?

My bad,didnt read that properly.

Should have a reasonably good case would go to LR first, nice and politely, and see what happens.

[scarry]

They do. LR will sell you one for about $45k

Are you sure that's correct,for a crate engine, supply only, or is that fitted?

Even fitted,its borderline on worth doing.

[DiscoJeffster]

Are you sure that's correct,for a crate engine, supply only, or is that fitted?

Even fitted,its borderline on worth doing.

There are posts here with that number. I’m sure it’s less now, but still.

[Graeme]

Check that its not a failed cambelt tensioner / oil pump casing although maybe not a different outcome anyway.

[DiscoJeffster]

Check that its not a failed cambelt tensioner / oil pump casing although maybe not a different outcome anyway.

Extremely unlikely on a ‘15

[josh.huber]

If you bought it from a dealer there should be statutory warranty. Make contact with them first. See what they have to say.

[DiscoJeffster]

If you bought it from a dealer there should be statutory warranty. Make contact with them first. See what they have to say.

Three months.

[ATH]

Now this is the sort of horror story makes me feel I should be looking to get shot of my D4. One owner, nearly same age (Nov 2016) and approx. mileage as the OPs vehicle. Over serviced if anything. This really is the stuff nightmares are made of and all those fat back sided bureaucraps sitting in offices supposedly helping the consumer should be redeployed onto the dole.
If our experience of them in WA is anything to go by when we had probs. with our caravan, you'll get little in the way of support. The "officer" we dealt with from Consumer Affairs (or whatever they call themselves these days) actually told me he was "hesitant to approach Mr *** as he was an icon of the industry"!
Those who have the ear of the pollies get the most backing and that doesn't include any member of the public.
AlanH.

[Pippin]

TDV6 2.7D yes - ex Ford Territory swap
TDV6 3.0D not so much

Definitely push the dealer but you may need to find a very good independent to assist.

Just hate seeing these posts and very sorry to hear. It would be a good idea to get an Independent to see what HAS happened, maybe the last service oil filter change was stuffed up. Failing when sitting at lights 2K after a service is not when I would expect catastrophic failure to occur, I don't think it is the first to fail when not under stress though. All the best, Nick

[M005]

It would be a good idea to get an Independent to see what HAS happened, maybe the last service oil filter change was stuffed up. Failing when sitting at lights 2K after a service is not when I would expect catastrophic failure to occur, I don't think it is the first to fail when not under stress though. All the best, Nick

Got someone looking at it next Friday, but trying to move the process on a bit quicker given Christmas is looming.

How could service / oil filter affect it, assuming genuine parts & sufficient oil ?

[Pippin]

Got someone looking at it next Friday, but trying to move the process on a bit quicker given Christmas is looming.

How could service / oil filter affect it, assuming genuine parts & sufficient oil ?An oil & filter change is a job likely given to an apprentice to do at a dealer, and it easy to not locate the filter spigot in its location when fitting if you are inexperienced.

[PerthDisco]

An oil & filter change is a job likely given to an apprentice to do at a dealer, and it easy to not locate the filter spigot in its location when fitting if you are inexperienced.

Agree to check the engine over closely. 3.0 doesn’t have oil filter with spigot so even more fool proof in theory.

[DiscoJeffster]

An oil & filter change is a job likely given to an apprentice to do at a dealer, and it easy to not locate the filter spigot in its location when fitting if you are inexperienced.

There is no filter spigot on that model so that’s nothing to do with it. It’s just a rubbish engine design and a percentage of them fail. It’s a sad reality. Sorry for your loss.

[PerthDisco]

There is no filter spigot on that model so that’s nothing to do with it. It’s just a rubbish engine design and a percentage of them fail. It’s a sad reality. Sorry for your loss.


Or just just too hot rodded (and some then like to further tune them). Speaking to a leading WA Indy during the week on this exact subject who made the valid point the 2.7 is a bigger 2.7 and the 3.0 is a smaller 3.0;

2.7HDi/TDV6/2.7TD
Engine configuration & engine displacement
60-degree V6 engine, single- and twin-turbo diesel, 2,720 cc (2.7 L; 166.0 cu in), bore x stroke 81 mm × 88 mm (3.19 in × 3.46 in), compression ratio 17.3:1
140kw

3.0D/TDV6/SDV6
Engine configuration & engine displacement
60-degree V6 engine, twin-turbo diesel, 2,993 cc (3.0 L; 182.6 cu in), bore x stroke 84 mm × 90 mm (3.31 in × 3.54 in), compression ratio 16.4:1
180-190kw

(A tiny bit more bore and stroke)

An extra 273cc for an extra 40-50kw = about 60hp.

If you think getting 50 or 60hp out of a 250 or 300cc motorbike that’s only the realm of a 600cc single or 500cc two stroke (naturally aspirated) unless you only want to make the hp for about 15 minutes.

So the 3.0D has an extra turbo and enhanced injection maybe to extract that big hp jump out of a tiny increase in cc on basically the exact same engine block as the 2.7D. And then LR in their wisdom doubled the service interval from the 2.7D.

I would never be tuning even more power out of it. Otherwise known in the motor game as a hand grenade.

I remember the Caterpillar 3208 TA V8 had a wonderful performance and reputation as a high performance marine diesel recreation engine. Over the years out of the same block the HP stepped up from 350 to 435 and finally in its final years over 500hp at which point it was a hand grenade and discontinued. (Non TA versions went forever at 200hp in commercial boats) Along the way head gaskets and other components were updated for the power but in the end you can’t get any more juice out of the orange. And that’s a 10.4 litre 900kg engine! The recreational engine rating being anticipated to do no more than 100-300 hours per year so a rebuild in 10 years approx.

[TuffRR]

Thanks all & for the link TuffRR.

I'm second owner, but given cost will be pushing LR Hard.

Haven't yet been able to find a 3.0 'short' or 'crate' engine anywhere - do such things exist?

Range Rov in Melbourne do replacement engines - likely a lot cheaper than through LR. Not 100% on details or cost but they are highly recommended by most.

[Turtle60]

Thanks all & for the link TuffRR.

I'm second owner, but given cost will be pushing LR Hard.

Haven't yet been able to find a 3.0 'short' or 'crate' engine anywhere - do such things exist?
Really bad outcome. But place in Sydney doing 12k exchange. You fit it and your other bits to it. Read through the thread SDV6 catastrophic failure. SDV6 are same engine as your TDV6 just tuned different. There’s a link in there. Good luck. But like others before me have a good read of warranty.

[rdenyer]

So 86,000 km - does not sound like much but my 2005 D3 2.7 spun the crank bearings at 84,000 km.
That was what seems like 10 years ago
would have thought that Land Rover would have progressed in 10 years.
or is this family of engine just not suited to this chassis.

Do Territories or Jags with the same issue ?

[loanrangie]

So 86,000 km - does not sound like much but my 2005 D3 2.7 spun the crank bearings at 84,000 km.
That was what seems like 10 years ago
would have thought that Land Rover would have progressed in 10 years.
or is this family of engine just not suited to this chassis.

Do Territories or Jags with the same issue ?

I've not heard of Territories having issues and we dint get a Jag with a TDV6 fitted as far as i'm aware, in the UK they use Jags for a donor vehicle.

[101RRS]

I've not heard of Territories having issues and we dint get a Jag with a TDV6 fitted as far as i'm aware, in the UK they use Jags for a donor vehicle.

Our Jags certainly did/do have the 2.7 Twin Turbo TDV6 and the 3.0 SDV6

carsales.com.au (https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2008-jaguar-xf-luxury-auto/OAG-AD-18948331/?Cr=2)

[ramblingboy42]

hmmm , sounds to me like a professionally fitted Chev 5.0ltr crate motor might be the economical way to go compared to new/rebuilt LandRover.

[loanrangie]

hmmm , sounds to me like a professionally fitted Chev 5.0ltr crate motor might be the economical way to go compared to new/rebuilt LandRover.Wouldn't be any less than a standard replacement engine.

[BrianElloy]

There is no immunity to it. Just pray you’re not one of the percentage.

Are there any leading indicators?

[M005]

Range Rov in Melbourne do replacement engines - likely a lot cheaper than through LR. Not 100% on details or cost but they are highly recommended by most.

I can find Land Rover Service and Repairs Workshop Bentleigh - Rova Range. (http://www.rovarange.com.au/) in Melbourne, but no mention of engines - is this the right place?

[Eric SDV6SE]

Are there any leading indicators?

Those that rely on the LR service interval....
Plus excessive crank end float and weeping of the front seal. Pays to check when doing timing belts. Crank end float should be 0 in all respects. If excessive, the thrust washers are wearing/ worn which causes the crank bearing caps to be loaded, causing them to move, block oil feed then game over...excessive end float also loads up the front main seal, forcing oil out.

[DiscoJeffster]

Those that rely on the LR service interval....
Plus excessive crank end float and weeping of the front seal. Pays to check when doing timing belts. Crank end float should be 0 in all respects. If excessive, the thrust washers are wearing/ worn which causes the crank bearing caps to be loaded, causing them to move, block oil feed then game over...excessive end float also loads up the front main seal, forcing oil out.

Manufacturers end float tolerance is 0.2mm to 0.4mm, not 0.

[Graeme]

The thrust washers are between a crankshaft journal and a main bearing so already push against a bearing and if you've replaced a front seal then you would have seen that the crank moving back or forth wouldn't impact the seal at all. Whilst excessive fore-aft movement might allow undesirable crank vibration to occur considering that the torque converter is at the rear end and the floating crankshaft damper is attached to the front end, the Ford truck division redesigned the 3.0's crank before using the engine in their F trucks because they considered that the crankshaft was poorly designed and or manufactured. That redesigned crankshaft is now fitted to the European including JLR version of the engine.

[rar110]

Thanks Graeme, any info on when the redesigned crank started in JLR motors?

[TuffRR]

I can find Land Rover Service and Repairs Workshop Bentleigh - Rova Range. (http://www.rovarange.com.au/) in Melbourne, but no mention of engines - is this the right place?

Lol, yep thats the one. Got my Rova and Ranges around the wrong way! haha

[M005]

Does anyone have any experience with Automotive Skills in Kirawee, Sydney?

They offer a remanufactured engine, fitted for a good price - even offering to transport it from Brisbane & back up here.

[Graeme]

Thanks Graeme, any info on when the redesigned crank started in JLR motors?
In trying to work out when the engine appeared in the F trucks I suspect around 2018/2019. I've not seen any info from JLR on the subject.

[rar110]

In trying to work out when the engine appeared in the F trucks I suspect around 2018/2019. I've not seen any info from JLR on the subject.

Thanks, that makes sense.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Manufacturers end float tolerance is 0.2mm to 0.4mm, not 0.

Thanks DJ couldn't remember exactly, anyway, if its floating too much, probably an indicator things will go pear shaped pretty soon

[DiscoJeffster]

Thanks DJ couldn't remember exactly, anyway, if its floating too much, probably an indicator things will go pear shaped pretty soon

Absolutely. Hence I did my bearings as mine was at 0.7mm.

[Discodicky]

Seems it's happened to me [bawl]

Sitting at lights and suddenly heard bang-bang-bang-bang (in time with the engine turning over) - turned off the motor (won't restart, just dead)

All signs point to the crank; March 2015 registered TDV6, 86k km and LR or specialist serviced (last serviced 2k km ago & just had gearbox serviced)

I'm aware of the service bulletins 'recognising' the fault, but has anyone ever had any luck in addressing the issue with LR Australia? I purchased from a main dealer (Pacific Land Rover) in February this year.

Is there a reputable source of remanufactured / refurbished / new engines? At reasonable cost?

Since this problem has occurred on a car which was manufactured YEARS after the two Service Bulletins (SSM71816 and SSM72928) of which you are aware, I would think that LR would not be in a position to refute any warranty assistance you ask for.
Try Pacific LR and don't be put off if they try to fob you off. Insist on them approaching LR and in the worst case a lawyers letter might be necessary. Good luck!

[DazzaTD5]

*Most of the failed engines don't actually break the crankshaft, once the big end bearings slip, then bang bang they more often than not simply jam up solid.

*Another absolutely crap position a Land Rover owner is left in.
*I have no doubt the scum bag dealer will reject the claim, then the scum bag manufacturer will reject the claim.
*The owner will then have to go through the long winded exercise of getting a lawyer etc etc or simply cope it on the chin and pay for the repair.

*The Land Rover fan boys will scream "poor servicing", "owner didnt do this or that" "its a bluh bluh small percentage of vehicles that fail"
*Regardless of all that total BS, this really does put some owners in a bad situation financially or at the least without a vehicle.

*I currently have 3 Discovery 3/4, RRS here waiting for engine replacements.

[Eevo]

*I currently have 3 Discovery 3/4, RRS here waiting for engine replacements.


just checking, its only the 3.0 with the issue?

[imaz]

TDV6 2.7D yes - ex Ford Territory swap
TDV6 3.0D not so much

Definitely push the dealer but you may need to find a very good independent to assist.

Just hate seeing these posts and very sorry to hear.

Can you downgrade to. 2.7 Terri without much fuss? Or is there more to it to get it functional?

[imaz]

They do. LR will sell you one for about $45k

At that price, torch the car and move on one would think.

[M005]

Can you downgrade to. 2.7 Terri without much fuss? Or is there more to it to get it functional?


I've asked that question as was told it's not possible.

Shame as I've found a Ford dealer selling a new complete 2.7 for $7k.

[PerthDisco]

Can you downgrade to. 2.7 Terri without much fuss? Or is there more to it to get it functional?

Call Dazza at Aztech 4x4 I believe this is a future solution being considered

[imaz]

I've asked that question as was told it's not possible.

Shame as I've found a Ford dealer selling a new complete 2.7 for $7k.

I’ve seen that post, retrofit bmw v8 engine.

[DazzaTD5]

Call Dazza at Aztech 4x4 I believe this is a future solution being considered

It is certainly in my brain.

*All the 3.0lt ancillaries are already on the vehicle.
*Would also require all the fuel system (injectors, HPFP etc) to be swapped over.
*Front timing belt is the same, the rear is different so assume the belt gear on the rear of the cam would require swapping.
*heads are the same, inlet manifolds are the same, the short block at one point from Land Rover was listed as 2.7/3.0

*I'm looking to buy a D4 3.0lt with a failed engine, I dont think I want to experiment on a customers vehicle.
*If it goes pair shaped on a vehicle I own its not an issue.

[DazzaTD5]

just checking, its only the 3.0 with the issue?

no most are 2007 - 2009 2.7 that fail, the odd 2005 model, the increasing amount of 3.0lt models

[ramblingboy42]

Chev crate engines are no where near $45k.

check this out and dream.....if you are going to spend anywhere near $45k then it makes sense to me to consider fitting a crate motor and having it professionally engineered to the vehicle.
Crate Engines - Outlaw Speed Shop (https://outlawspeed.com.au/shop/crate-engines)

[discorevy]

It is certainly in my brain.

*All the 3.0lt ancillaries are already on the vehicle.
*Would also require all the fuel system (injectors, HPFP etc) to be swapped over.
*Front timing belt is the same, the rear is different so assume the belt gear on the rear of the cam would require swapping.



Complete 2.7 if swapped with HPFP from 2.7 will only require late 2.7 belt kit Dazza.
ECU would probably need swapped as well unless it can be reflashed to suit.
Intercooler blanked, custom hose etc

Edit , unless you were thinking of keeping both turbos , with all the extra unreliability , split intakes , pain in the arse rear belt changes blah blah, which would still need an ECU reflash as different bore, stroke, compression ratio etc

[Discodicky]

Are there any leading indicators?

It would appear so.
Had a very interesting chat today with a fella who was, up until approx 12 months ago, the head mech/main man for the local Dealership here in Hobart.
He has since started out on his own and is doing very well.
About to start doing timing chains on a D3 V6 petrol which are very noisy. Big job apparently but straightforward.

Anyway, we had a long conversation re engine failures, and he is in no doubt whatsoever that the cause is due to excessive klms between oil changes.
Oil dilution and deterioration caused by circa 26,000 klm intervals causing the conrod brgs to "pick up".
Went as far as to say he has never seen one go that had circa 10-12,000 klm oil changes throughout its life.

He commented that he was confident it is not a "crankshaft problem" per se, because he felt sure that LR would be able to trace any faulty cranks and have the means/be prepared to do a recall on the specific batch.

His comments sorta gives me much more confidence that the problem is avoidable simply by, if necessary, "over servicing" the engines and of course ensuring the correct oil is used.
As many of us are of the opinion anyway, 10,000 klms is not over servicing anyway.

I'd be interested to know if those unfortunate and unlucky persons who have had a failure are able to advise their vehicles servicing history, ie, what were the klm periods between oil changes during the engine's life, and was the correct oil always used, which would help further establish a pattern here.

[DazzaTD5]

Edit , unless you were thinking of keeping both turbos , with all the extra unreliability , split intakes , pain in the arse rear belt changes blah blah, which would still need an ECU reflash as different bore, stroke, compression ratio etc

Yes, fitting it up as a 3.0lt in every way, hell for that matter I'd fit new intakes before fitting engine.

2,720 cc (166.0 cu in), bore x stroke 81 mm × 88 mm, compression ratio 17.3:1
2,993 cc (182.6 cu in), bore x stroke 84 mm × 90 mm, compression ratio 16.4:1

I doubt the difference would even be picked up by the ECU.
No knock sensors on a 3.0lt.
Dyno it, tune it.

[DazzaTD5]

Being blunt...

*I've heard the ex Land Rover mech, ex Land Rover engineer, Land Rover engineer, I've been to the Land Rover factory and had a cup of tea with a Land Rover engineer and the/a queen stories many many times.
*While many valid points are brought up such as doing 10,000km service intervals, that btw any half decent mech will tell you to do without the need to consult a Land Rover engineer.
*Another great one I was told very matter of fact like from a Authorised Land Rover bluh bluh "we dont fit used engines" instead gave the owner of a 2007 Disco 3 a quote of round 3 times what the vehicle was worth.
*Land Rover set the service intervals for their vehicles.
*Its a Land Rover badge on the front of the vehicle.

The Land Rover brand has a complete and utter disconnect from the real world reality that Land Rover owners live in.
The only interesting and relevant question is Land Rover going to cop up for an engine replacement on a 2015 model Discovery 4?

[Discodicky]

Being blunt...

*I've heard the ex Land Rover mech, ex Land Rover engineer, Land Rover engineer, I've been to the Land Rover factory and had a cup of tea with a Land Rover engineer and the/a queen stories many many times.
*While many valid points are brought up such as doing 10,000km service intervals, that btw any half decent mech will tell you to do without the need to consult a Land Rover engineer.
*Another great one I was told very matter of fact like from a Authorised Land Rover bluh bluh "we dont fit used engines" instead gave the owner of a 2007 Disco 3 a quote of round 3 times what the vehicle was worth.
*Land Rover set the service intervals for their vehicles.
*Its a Land Rover badge on the front of the vehicle.

The Land Rover brand has a complete and utter disconnect from the real world reality that Land Rover owners live in.
The only interesting and relevant question is Land Rover going to cop up for an engine replacement on a 2015 model Discovery 4?



Whatever.
Given your comments and perceived bitterness towards the product I'm surprised you lower your standards to work on the blighters.
PS. No one, quote, "consulted a Land Rover engineer", suggest you re read the text.

[discorevy]

Yes, fitting it up as a 3.0lt in every way, hell for that matter I'd fit new intakes before fitting engine.

2,720 cc (166.0 cu in), bore x stroke 81 mm × 88 mm, compression ratio 17.3:1
2,993 cc (182.6 cu in), bore x stroke 84 mm × 90 mm, compression ratio 16.4:1

I doubt the difference would even be picked up by the ECU.
No knock sensors on a 3.0lt.
Dyno it, tune it.

yep, overall flow through turbos should be similar as the higher comp of the 2.7 should be offset by the extra capacity of the 3.0.
Have you test fitted a 3.0 intake with 3.0 injector to a 2.7 head in case they've changed anything round that area with the head?
I've probably got a 2.7 and a 3.0 intake around here to compare , but no heads or injectors

[DUCKSNUTS]

Plenty of Discos etc at auctions rolled etc, some quite new. That's the same place someone else will get their engine to on sell to you.
D3s/D4s etc just get the whole car and swap, at least that is most economical and what I would do to get everything needed then flog remaining parts to get some money back.

[discorevy]

Whatever.
Given your comments and perceived bitterness towards the product I'm surprised you lower your standards to work on the blighters.
PS. No one, quote, "consulted a Land Rover engineer", suggest you re read the text.

I can't speak for Darren , but he is just trying to come up with an affordable solution for his customers and if, like me, he does have some bitterness towards this engine it's possibly a combination of bad design , bad manufacturing quality control and cover up at a corporate level.

[loanrangie]

Such a shame, when they are going well they are a great motor.

[DazzaTD5]

yep, overall flow through turbos should be similar as the higher comp of the 2.7 should be offset by the extra capacity of the 3.0.
Have you test fitted a 3.0 intake with 3.0 injector to a 2.7 head in case they've changed anything round that area with the head?
I've probably got a 2.7 and a 3.0 intake around here to compare , but no heads or injectors

Yes I certainly want to look at the two heads and the layout.
The centre oil cooler/filter assembly is different between a 2.7 and a 3.0. The 2.7 uses a metal gasket between the assembly and the block where as the 3.0 uses a series of orings, but the plastic ancillaries look the same, so that may not matter (Justin Cooper over in tassie is very familiar with the cooler assembly in a 3.0)

Also the sump on a 2.7 uses a engine support frame, metal sump, the 3.0 uses a complete frame/sump assembly, again I'm figuring it will all interchange.

By the time I get to actually try all this, someone on here may well have jumped to it [tonguewink]

[DazzaTD5]

Such a shame, when they are going well they are a great motor.

Absolutely they run great, just got a replacement engine up and running in a D3 and it just runs spot on in everyway.
It's a great sounding engine and when anyone has been around enough of them you can pick any little variation from one engine to the next.

I've said this plenty of times, a Discovery 4 in any form, drives so well on the road, drives so well off the road, in every way they do it all with such elegance and dare I say perfection when compared to any other vehicle in its class.

My Bro has a LC 200 series (mighty?) Land Cruiser, its actually for a great big tank of a truckster drives quite civilised but a Discovery 4 walks all over it in all situations.

[DazzaTD5]

bad manufacturing quality control and cover up at a corporate level.

I reckon that sums it all up there

[Discodicky]

I can't speak for Darren , but he is just trying to come up with an affordable solution for his customers and if, like me, he does have some bitterness towards this engine it's possibly a combination of bad design , bad manufacturing quality control and cover up at a corporate level.

And in that respect I see & agree with the point.
To an extent, its not what problems a vehicle gives, its more about how the manufacturer responds to fixing them, and historically JLR gets a 100% FAIL in the pub test!
And its due to the Accountants and senior personnel right at the top being so remote from the coal face they have no concept whatsoever as to the extent the manufacturer's future sales are ultimately affected by bad publicity caused by inadequate support of the product.

However after reading and viewing stacks of material on the engine problems it appears to me that no one has come up with a definite 100% certain reason as to why they fail, and therefore I believe it is being a bit unfair and making a huge call to claim they are a badly designed engine, bad manufacturing etc etc. There are plenty around with well in excess of 300,000 klms which have had no problems whatsoever, so they can't be THAT bad!
.... and why can't the case of excessive klms between oil changes be the ONLY cause??? It's quite feasible.

[ATH]

"My Bro has a LC 200 series (mighty?) Land Cruiser, its actually for a great big tank of a truckster drives quite civilised but a Discovery 4 walks all over it in all situations." Oh dear. This vehicle is what my son drives (or used to) and it took 3 years for Tojo to fix the horrendous oil consumption of the engine and fit a new transmission. Bloody thing wouldn't pull out of his driveway after a week of sitting idle while he was off on site. He had to wait for the trans to build up pressure.
Their explanation for both faults were that "it's a hi-tech engine/transmission"!!!!! WTF
His answer was that his 12 year old RR started first time and pulled away immediately after much longer sitting idle. Plus of course he had to spend thousands having the suspension upgraded so that it could legally tow his boat although that didn't matter in the end as marriage forced it's sale....... I'll say nothing more about that. :(
My name for it was "soft snot" which may have been a bit rude but I liked it. :)
AlanH.

[scarry]

I reckon that sums it all up there

Not the first time for LR,and I doubt its the last.Been going on for many, many years.

[woodsy]

Just read advert yesterday In the free online ex UK Magazine “The Landy” , Issue 82 page 5 , December 2020 .
NWS Motor services advertise remanufactured 3 litre Td v6 engines , also looks like they sell solid billet cranks for the 3 litre TdV6 .
Www.nwsmotorservices.com (http://Www.nwsmotorservices.com)

maybe worth looking at prices if anyone is rebuilding their engines or wants a replacement or rebuilt engine shipped over ?
Don’t know if they have an Australian agent ?
Hope this may help someone.
Disappointing to hear about a late model disco 4 with engine issue . Hope it’s only a very small percentage of engines with problems compared to how many still on the road . Roll the dice and keep my fingers crossed 🤞.

My Own disco 4 TdV6 standard engine spec , owned for 18 months , Is A My 15 first registered Model and up to 133,000 km trouble free so far , with engine oil changes at 10 k intervals since my ownership . Bought used at 110km from country LR dealer . I am second owner . Love it . Tows Our big SR20 snowy river van with ease . Don’t notice the cub brumby camper trailer behind when that gets a run .
Regards Woodsy

[discorevy]

And in that respect I see & agree with the point.
To an extent, its not what problems a vehicle gives, its more about how the manufacturer responds to fixing them, and historically JLR gets a 100% FAIL in the pub test!
And its due to the Accountants and senior personnel right at the top being so remote from the coal face they have no concept whatsoever as to the extent the manufacturer's future sales are ultimately affected by bad publicity caused by inadequate support of the product.

However after reading and viewing stacks of material on the engine problems it appears to me that no one has come up with a definite 100% certain reason as to why they fail, and therefore I believe it is being a bit unfair and making a huge call to claim they are a badly designed engine, bad manufacturing etc etc. There are plenty around with well in excess of 300,000 klms which have had no problems whatsoever, so they can't be THAT bad!
.... and why can't the case of excessive klms between oil changes be the ONLY cause??? It's quite feasible.



The bad design I was referring to was more to do with fitting what is essentially an engine designed for a car and putting it in a vehicle that should have a truck spec engine , and yes this is where those away from the "coal face" have too much say in a big corporate .
I'm sure any engineer worth his salt would have had misgivings about it

Of course that more frequent oil changes are better , but plenty other makes do even longer between scheduled changes without ****ting themselves in the same spot .

Ford now have made a truck spec 3.0 litre while at the same time managing to distance themselves from an inferior Land Rover product ( spin doctor genius right there )

[incisor]

Ford now have made a truck spec 3.0 litre while at the same time managing to distance themselves from an inferior Land Rover product ( spin doctor genius right there )

the fords let go as well...

i have 2 customers that have experienced it...

[mitchE39]

The bad design I was referring to was more to do with fitting what is essentially an engine designed for a car and putting it in a vehicle that should have a truck spec engine

While I partly agree with this, it’s not entirely correct. I worked for Audi for over 4 years, and we never had one Q7 fail like this. Yes, they weren’t immune from problems, but the original Q7 was a comparable weight, power, and performance (from a different style vehicle, yes). And with the same 6 or 8 speed ZF behind the engine!

Simply saying the engine is too highly strung for the car is a bit of a cop out. It’s either a design flaw or a manufacturing fault that’s being covered up big time

[DazzaTD5]

the fords let go as well...

i have 2 customers that have experienced it...

Yep the V8 diesels are a known to fail engine in all the big F series trucksters. The body also easily unbolts like a Discovery 3, Discovery 4, I believe its a Ford idea (the body off design, not engine failures).

[Pippin]

Got someone looking at it next Friday, but trying to move the process on a bit quicker given Christmas is looming.

How could service / oil filter affect it, assuming genuine parts & sufficient oil ? It will be interesting to hear the result. Could it be a timing belt or tensioner issue?

[loanrangie]

It will be interesting to hear the result. Could it be a timing belt or tensioner issue?Not likely on the 3.0 but it is possible.

[discorevy]

the fords let go as well...

i have 2 customers that have experienced it...

Be interesting to know if it's the same spot ,but being under warranty, I guess we wont find out for a while.

[Eric SDV6SE]

It will be interesting to hear the result. Could it be a timing belt or tensioner issue?

Oil doesn’t last forever, we all know it ages and breaks down. High temp and loads degrade it further, faster. In a diesel it get saturated with soot (mainly carbon) very quickly too. All significantly affecting the oils ability to do its primary job in reducing friction between moving metal parts.

Changing frequently (10,000km or less) with a high quality and specced oil and doing a pre oil change engine flush every second oil service or so will definitely help in my view...

The top end valve train of these engines are pretty good, excluding the plastic manifolds. Yes if the belt or chains fail its a mess but in the context of this thread (crank failures), there have not been cases I've heard or read about where a top end failure has led to crank failure.

[BradC]

The top end valve train of these engines are pretty good, excluding the plastic manifolds. Yes if the belt or chains fail its a mess but in the context of this thread (crank failures), there have not been cases I've heard or read about where a top end failure has led to crank failure.

There have been a few on the disco3 UK forum where even a gentle “piston meet valve” event has seen the top end repaired only to be followed later by a bottom end failure. It’s always a risk. If you whack a valve hard enough to damage the valve and/or supporting infrastructure you are bound to introduce a pretty severe shock load to the spinny bits.

[Tote]

And in that respect I see & agree with the point.
.... and why can't the case of excessive klms between oil changes be the ONLY cause??? It's quite feasible.

My 2.7 failed after 270,000KM of being serviced religiously at the scheduled interval, although I will concede that oil breakdown may have had something to do with it. The vehicle had just completed two 800KM round trips with a sheep trailer on the back when it failed, and it was close to needing a service from memory. No, the oil wasn't low [bigsmile1]

Regards,
Tote

[Eric SDV6SE]

There have been a few on the disco3 UK forum where even a gentle “piston meet valve” event has seen the top end repaired only to be followed later by a bottom end failure. It’s always a risk. If you whack a valve hard enough to damage the valve and/or supporting infrastructure you are bound to introduce a pretty severe shock load to the spinny bits.

Which is why i can't understand why Ford / JLR didnt design it as a non interference engine.

[DiscoJeffster]

Which is why i can't understand why Ford / JLR didnt design it as a non interference engine.

Engineers don’t design an engine around limiting damage when a key component fails. They would have a reasonable assumption the crank won’t fail and that timing belts are serviced at the correct interval, hence no need to compromise the engine design for unlikely failures.

Plus non-interference engines has a either/both tall combustion chamber and/or shallow cam throw. They aren’t designing the engine with the plan for a failure - they design the engine for maximum efficiency which means designing an efficient combustion chamber/head design.

[DiscoJeffster]

I should add it’s all a compromise and a list of design priorities, but with government regs and customer expectations on fuel consumption, efficiency wins every time.

[Discodicky]

My 2.7 failed after 270,000KM of being serviced religiously at the scheduled interval, although I will concede that oil breakdown may have had something to do with it. The vehicle had just completed two 800KM round trips with a sheep trailer on the back when it failed, and it was close to needing a service from memory. No, the oil wasn't low [bigsmile1]

Regards,
Tote

I'm sorry to hear that.
Do you know what has happened?
When you say "the scheduled interval", what was the interval klms?
Assume you are using correct spec Full synthetic oil?

[Tote]

I'm sorry to hear that.
Do you know what has happened?
When you say "the scheduled interval", what was the interval klms?
Assume you are using correct spec Full synthetic oil?

It was in 2015 so I'm over it now [smilebigeye] Service intervals were by the book, from memory around 20K and the oil was bought in 20 lt drums of magnatec professional, same as the dealers use.

Linky to post about its demise here, seems I was even better with the services than I thought I was Bye Bye Permagrin (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/220380-bye-bye-permagrin.html)

Regards,
Tote

[Discodicky]

It was in 2015 so I'm over it now [smilebigeye] Service intervals were by the book, from memory around 20K and the oil was bought in 20 lt drums of magnatec professional, same as the dealers use.

Linky to post about its demise here, seems I was even better with the services than I thought I was Bye Bye Permagrin (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/220380-bye-bye-permagrin.html)

Regards,
Tote

In hindsight, 10,000 between services might have been better.
PS: I wouldn't mind your RRS!! (Envy)

[loanrangie]

Which is why i can't understand why Ford / JLR didnt design it as a non interference engine.Being that the valves are vertical in the head it would mean large recesses in the pistons where the combustion chamber is, that would likely mean a heavier and taller casting for the pistons.

[discorevy]

A diesel engine will always be interference due to required compression ratio, unless it's a 2 stroke .

[rick130]

.... and why can't the case of excessive klms between oil changes be the ONLY cause??? It's quite feasible.But for that to be the cause the oil will have to have totally sheared (lost all viscosity) and be totally depleted of all AW additives.

We are talking a premium engine oil developed with the manufacturer to last that distance.
I'd love to see an oil sample at 26,000km.

I've taken TD42T Patrols past 20,000km back when we didn't have ULS fuel and the oil samples were stellar.
Over the road transport regularly exceed 100,000km on oil changes, but they regularly take samples, the sump capacities are large and top ups keep additive depletion to a minimal.

[Pippin]

Got someone looking at it next Friday, but trying to move the process on a bit quicker given Christmas is looming.

How could service / oil filter affect it, assuming genuine parts & sufficient oil ? M005 Has there been any result from last Friday?

[M005]

M005 Has there been any result from last Friday?

No, vehicle is with the dealer and I spoke to LR Australia on Tuesday, it has been assigned to a case manager who looks after the dealer and she said she would speak to the dealer and get back to me.

Just a waiting game now.

In the meantime a mate has leant me a 2012 Great Wall in place of the Disco, which gets me around but highlights what luxury the D4 is.

[101RRS]

But I bet the Great Wall does not have a snapped crank [bigsad]

I hope all your negotiations with the dealer and LR go well [thumbsupbig]

[shanegtr]

But for that to be the cause the oil will have to have totally sheared (lost all viscosity) and be totally depleted of all AW additives.

We are talking a premium engine oil developed with the manufacturer to last that distance.
I'd love to see an oil sample at 26,000km.

I've taken TD42T Patrols past 20,000km back when we didn't have ULS fuel and the oil samples were stellar.
Over the road transport regularly exceed 100,000km on oil changes, but they regularly take samples, the sump capacities are large and top ups keep additive depletion to a minimal.
I agree with you there Rick. I haven't see any significant change on my old 2.7 oil samples when comparing 12,000km to 24,000km oil change intervals.

[Discodicky]

But for that to be the cause the oil will have to have totally sheared (lost all viscosity) and be totally depleted of all AW additives.

We are talking a premium engine oil developed with the manufacturer to last that distance.
I'd love to see an oil sample at 26,000km.

I've taken TD42T Patrols past 20,000km back when we didn't have ULS fuel and the oil samples were stellar.
Over the road transport regularly exceed 100,000km on oil changes, but they regularly take samples, the sump capacities are large and top ups keep additive depletion to a minimal.

Point taken, however as you say, the sump capacities have increased accordingly.
When Komatsu took their service intervals from 250 hrs to 500 hrs several years ago they increased their sump capacities by around 50%.
Other manufacturers did the same.
Presumably this was to ensure there was more than enough oil to keep oil degredation to a minimum.
I recall the Castrol Rep telling me the oil companies hated these increased service schedules (which are for Marketing purposes) as it places severe demands on the oil.

[DiscoJeffster]

Point taken, however as you say, the sump capacities have increased accordingly.
When Komatsu took their service intervals from 250 hrs to 500 hrs several years ago they increased their sump capacities by around 50%.
Other manufacturers did the same.
Presumably this was to ensure there was more than enough oil to keep oil degredation to a minimum.
I recall the Castrol Rep telling me the oil companies hated these increased service schedules (which are for Marketing purposes) as it places severe demands on the oil.

Severe demand on the oil, and yet the oil samples prove otherwise? More rumour and innuendo.

[Discodicky]

Severe demand on the oil, and yet the oil samples prove otherwise? More rumour and innuendo.

Not at all.
Without fail, in my 31 yrs experience, oil samples showed classic cases of the engine oil at 250 hrs was right near the end of its life.
This was prior moving to 500 hr intervals however the results were not much better at 500 hrs even with the increased sump capacity.
Zinc or magnesium (additives) would be almost depleted; iron, and lead, copper would be starting to rise (pistons, brgs, etc)
Silica (dirt) could be rising, sulphur could be up.
Silica is also sometimes used as an additive and it was possible to have the parts per million (ppm) steady, insofar as the silica (as an additive) would be depleting, but the silica (dirt via the air filter) would be increasing thus causing it to remain somewhat steady.

The key point about oil analysis is to monitor the TRENDS over a period of several samples via engine hours/vehicle klms, ie, if the (bad) results such as iron increasing, are trending upwards and thus pointing towards wear or failure of a component.
If sulphur is rising then you might have a weak head gasket or "O" ring somewhere.

There is a lot to oil analysis!

[rick130]

Not at all.
Without fail, in my 31 yrs experience, oil samples showed classic cases of the engine oil at 250 hrs was right near the end of its life.
This was prior moving to 500 hr intervals however the results were not much better at 500 hrs even with the increased sump capacity.
Zinc or magnesium (additives) would be almost depleted; iron, and lead, copper would be starting to rise (pistons, brgs, etc)
Silica (dirt) could be rising, sulphur could be up.
Silica is also sometimes used as an additive and it was possible to have the parts per million (ppm) steady, insofar as the silica (as an additive) would be depleting, but the silica (dirt via the air filter) would be increasing thus causing it to remain somewhat steady.

The key point about oil analysis is to monitor the TRENDS over a period of several samples via engine hours/vehicle klms, ie, if the (bad) results such as iron increasing, are trending upwards and thus pointing towards wear or failure of a component.
If sulphur is rising then you might have a weak head gasket or "O" ring somewhere.

There is a lot to oil analysis!

100%
Silicon is an interesting additive, used as an anti-foamant.
Sodium, potassium and silica are the ones to watch for coolant, more so than glycol in an oil sample too.

Sump capacity has a major bearing (no pun intended [emoji16]) on oil life.
At the same time as I was able to easily exceed 20k km on TD42T's, 300Tdi oil was toast at 17,500km on the same, premium and bloody exxy full syn oil, as in well past condenmnation limits.
Yet I'm the Tdi was an efficient direct injected engine vs the 'dirty' indirect injected Nissan.
We dropped the oil in the Nissan at 20k as we were in front financially at that point, otherwise the oil was fine to continue on and actually looked better than an older mineral oil were are using during warranty at 5,000km.

Re 26,000km though, as Shane said, his samples in his 2.7 are much the same at 14k as they are at 24k km

[DiscoDB]

To the OP - if we are going off topic just know we are chatting here as moral support. [emoji106]

Speaking of Komatsu service intervals. At a mine site I was supporting in Peru, the reliability engineers working with Komatsu and Cummins were able to get sign off to increase the service interval from 500hrs to 750hrs on the fleet of 930’s based on using the results from oil analysis. Saving over US$1M a year in servicing across the fleet.

At the same time, the average engine life was being pushed from an OEM specified 18,000 hours to a target of 21,000 hours. With a rebuild cost of USD 750K, this was a big cost saving. And this is operating under high loads (fully loaded runs uphill), at high altitude of 4000m, and in a very dusty environment.

All done through condition monitoring.

Amazing trucks and engines- 18 cylinder, 77.6L, 2600kW at 1900rpm. That would be a 77.6 TDV18.

Ironically, and unrelated, prior to this they also snapped a crank in one. That was a USD1.5M warranty claim which Komatsu honoured.

[shanegtr]

To the OP - if we are going off topic just know we are chatting here as moral support. [emoji106]

Speaking of Komatsu service intervals. At a mine site I was supporting in Peru, the reliability engineers working with Komatsu and Cummins were able to get sign off to increase the service interval from 500hrs to 750hrs on the fleet of 930’s based on using the results from oil analysis. Saving over US$1M a year in servicing across the fleet.

At the same time, the average engine life was being pushed from an OEM specified 18,000 hours to a target of 21,000 hours. With a rebuild cost of USD 750K, this was a big cost saving. And this is operating under high loads (fully loaded runs uphill), at high altitude of 4000m, and in a very dusty environment.

All done through condition monitoring.

Amazing trucks and engines- 18 cylinder, 77.6L, 2600kW at 1900rpm. That would be a 77.6 TDV18.

Ironically, and unrelated, prior to this they also snapped a crank in one. That was a USD1.5M warranty claim which Komatsu honoured.
Haul truck loads on the engine are not nearly as bad as you would think. One of my previous employers are running the same engines in haul truck and loaders - cummins QSK60 (60L V16). Engine life in the haul trucks was around the 20,000hr mark - loaders where half that at around 10,000hrs. The loaders engines are derated comapared to the haul truck engine and the engine duty cycle was up around 95% in the loaders (thats 95% of the time the engines where at full noise-full load) where as the trucks was a touch over 50% (i cant remember the exact figures)

[M005]

To the OP - if we are going off topic just know we are chatting here as moral support. [emoji106]



All good, an interesting conversation and I'm learning a lot.

[Discodicky]

100%
Silicon is an interesting additive, used as an anti-foamant.
Sodium, potassium and silica are the ones to watch for coolant, more so than glycol in an oil sample too.

Sump capacity has a major bearing (no pun intended [emoji16]) on oil life.
At the same time as I was able to easily exceed 20k km on TD42T's, 300Tdi oil was toast at 17,500km on the same, premium and bloody exxy full syn oil, as in well past condenmnation limits.
Yet I'm the Tdi was an efficient direct injected engine vs the 'dirty' indirect injected Nissan.
We dropped the oil in the Nissan at 20k as we were in front financially at that point, otherwise the oil was fine to continue on and actually looked better than an older mineral oil were are using during warranty at 5,000km.

Re 26,000km though, as Shane said, his samples in his 2.7 are much the same at 14k as they are at 24k km

Thanks, I actually intended to say "sodium" but somehow wrote sulphur, or as the Yanks would say, sulfer.
Forgot to mention what the oil chemists call "flash point" of the oil which is very important, ie, any fuel dilation/fuel present in the oil which would be of relevance and interest to us as being a possible contributor to engine bearing problems.
And of course an engine which works 23 hrs out of a 24 hr period and often at a constant (low) rpm as most mining machinery does, will always outlast a (car) engine which has continual cold starts, shortish runs, varying rpm, stop/start, etc etc.
I must confess that I retired from the workforce long before Synthetic oils have become the 'norm', so am unfamiliar with how they look on oil analysis reports these days insofar as extended oil change periods.
My days the common diesel engine oil was a 15W40 mineral such as Castrol J Max, and Komatsu 15W40 which was basically Castrol blended to Komatsu requirements.

[DiscoDB]

Now that this thread has passed the 100 post mark and moved on beyond the OP’s original post I would like to add some warnings to people as I have been researching this topic for some time now.

I stress that this has nothing to do with the OP’s engine failure - but M005 I trust you are OK with me posting this here as it is important consumer information.

There is a reputable engine rebuilder based in the UK who bought a batch of non-genuine TDV6 cranks which failed within 20,000kms of the rebuild. They owned the problem and did not hide this fact.

Another reputable engine rebuilder also in the UK also had issues using non-genuine gaskets which would start to leak (some would say proof they are genuine - but this is not the case with the TDV6).

These are lessons learnt the hard way by reputable engine rebuilders that you can find out for yourself online.

In the UK, Australia, South Africa, and probably all around the world - you can now buy very cheap Disco’s with a failed engine for next to nothing, and either use for parts or put a replacement engine in it and resell for a tidy profit. Especially the case if it is a low mileage D4 with a failed engine and the owner was quoted up to $40K for a new engine.

CONSUMER WARNINGS

If you are getting a TDV6 engine rebuilt - make sure you know where the parts are being sourced from.

If you are buying a second hand Discovery - make sure you are confident it has the original engine. Checking the rego papers is not proof if the rego has not been updated. Not having the original engine is not the issue - but not being told it was replaced is.

If it doesn’t have the original engine - make sure you know the origins of the replacement engine, and if it was a rebuilt engine then check where they sourced their parts from.

And if you have bought a second hand Discovery and experienced a TDV6 engine failure shortly after buying - make sure you confirm if it was the original engine fitted - especially if you bought from a dealer as you may have recourse.

Sadly there are suppliers based overseas who are very good at reproducing parts that look the same but are not the same - and if reputable engine rebuilders in the UK can fall for this then it can happen anywhere.

Caveat emptor - let the buyer beware.

[DiscoMick]

100%
Silicon is an interesting additive, used as an anti-foamant.
Sodium, potassium and silica are the ones to watch for coolant, more so than glycol in an oil sample too.

Sump capacity has a major bearing (no pun intended [emoji16]) on oil life.
At the same time as I was able to easily exceed 20k km on TD42T's, 300Tdi oil was toast at 17,500km on the same, premium and bloody exxy full syn oil, as in well past condenmnation limits.
Yet I'm the Tdi was an efficient direct injected engine vs the 'dirty' indirect injected Nissan.
We dropped the oil in the Nissan at 20k as we were in front financially at that point, otherwise the oil was fine to continue on and actually looked better than an older mineral oil were are using during warranty at 5,000km.

Re 26,000km though, as Shane said, his samples in his 2.7 are much the same at 14k as they are at 24k kmWas that full synthetic oil in a 300Tdi? I was told that was a bad idea and to always use 15W40 mineral oil in our D1 300Tdi.
Our current Puma Defender uses full synthetic and LR says 20,000 km services, but our indie British Offroad advises 10,000 kms, which I'm following.
So just interested.

[M005]

But I bet the Great Wall does not have a snapped crank [bigsad]



No, it has a blown head gasket....:wallbash:...FML...you couldn't make this stuff up [bighmmm]

So back to no vehicle, only sold an old D3 I'd been running as a 3rd vehicle a month before this all happened.

Dealer has confirmed snapped crank on the D4.

[DiscoDB]

No, it has a blown head gasket....:wallbash:...FML...you couldn't make this stuff up [bighmmm]

So back to no vehicle, only sold an old D3 I'd been running as a 3rd vehicle a month before this all happened.

Dealer has confirmed snapped crank on the D4.

I subscribe to the theory of having a duty unit, a stand-by, and a spare. But I do like to have back-ups to my back-ups.

So took them a while to confirm - thought they could work that one out quicker. So what happens next?

[M005]

So what happens next?

I wait for the phone call.

[DiscoDB]

I wait for the phone call.

Well I think that deserves a meme....

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201111/8cf356fd6bd70c4dd7dbc9ba9642205b.jpg

[DazzaTD5]

Just some info I supply to any customer (in W.A) when they are doing a warranty claim...(the lawyer I mention has offices all over Aust)

INFORMATION PROVIDED BY THE ACCC
Consumer guarantees
Under the Australian Consumer Law, when you buy products and services they come with automatic guarantees that they will work and do what you asked for. If you buy something that isn't right, you have consumer rights.
Consumer guarantees on products and services

Since 1 January 2011, the following consumer guarantees on products and services apply.
Products must be of acceptable quality, that is:


safe, lasting, with no faults
look acceptable
do all the things someone would normally expect them to do.


Acceptable quality takes into account what would normally be expected for the type of product and cost.
Under the ACL having your vehicle serviced by an independent licensed repairer is not legal grounds for rejecting a warranty claim.

Warranty
A warranty against defects is usually limited by time.
All suppliers, manufacturers and service providers that provide you with a warranty against defects must comply with that warranty. If they do not, you may bring an action against the person or business who provided the warranty, either under the ACL or for breach of contract.

Consumer help
Contact the dealer
We recommend contacting a dealer in your area as the first step in resolving your issue. If the dealer is unable, unwilling to assist you or rejects your warranty claim then please use the below information provided.
Lodge a formal complaint with Consumer Protection (Dept Commerce WA) and contact:
https://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/sites/default/files/atoms/files/cp-complaint-form.pdf

Land Rover Australia
Customer Relationship Manager
Call: 1800 625 642
Email: crcau@jaguarlandrover.com
Level 1, 189 O'Riordan Street, Mascot, NSW 2020
PO Box 1070 Mascot NSW 1460

HWL Ebsworth Lawyers
HWL Ebsworth has a dedicated Automotive Industry Group
Level 20, 240 St Georges Terrace. Perth WA 6000
PO Box 7222 Cloisters Square WA 6850
P: 08 6559 6500 (tel:+61%208%206559%206500)
F: 1300 704 211

The information provided by Aztech 4x4 Mechanical is provided in good faith and is not intended as any form of legal advise. Aztech 4x4 Mechanical is not affiliated with Jaguar Land Rover Australia, Jaguar Land Rover Limited, HWL Ebsworth, any dealer network or other businesses listed. All names, images, logos identifying Land Rover are proprietary marks of Jaguar Land Rover Limited

[DazzaTD5]

As for trying to find out what parts were used in a rebuild, good luck with that.
A repairer, rebuilder etc could say anything that suits their purpose at the time.
I would be more concerned about buying a used vehicle if it had the orig engine and has done less than say 160K.

[DazzaTD5]

IMHO...
I understand oil testing on engines worth more than a house not to mention replacement costs, downtime etc etc, talking millions of dollars in related costs.

But the oddity of you lot that get the oil tested on your little tiny put put light vehicle to me doesnt seem dare I say cost effective?
I mean hey, by the time you have, what taken a sample or are you doing an engine oil change anyway? drop it off or send it away to get tested, bluh bluh etc etc.

Is it not easier to use a good quality engine oil spec'd for your vehicle and change it every 10K?
I also assume the "oil tester group" do their own servicing, so what? $200 of oil at worst? once or twice a year?
Oil changes are cheaper than engine changes.
Also are you lot testing the auto trans oil as well? if not, why not?

None of it makes sense UNLESS you are doing it purely for interest sake, then I completely understand. [tonguewink]

[tonguewink]

[rick130]

Well we do full oil tests for clients all the time.
If something fails, we have test results to back up any come back.
It's part of my job.
So the car gets the odd one too.
And I have an ATF test here to send atm. [emoji39]

[rick130]

Was that full synthetic oil in a 300Tdi? I was told that was a bad idea and to always use 15W40 mineral oil in our D1 300Tdi.
Our current Puma Defender uses full synthetic and LR says 20,000 km services, but our indie British Offroad advises 10,000 kms, which I'm following.
So just interested.Yep, full syn in the Tdi and the TD42T Nissan, which was supposed to have 5,000km oil changes.
At the time that was an oil change every 2.5-3 weeks, I kid you not.
12.5 litres and two oil filters.
I quadrupled that oil change interval easily with a decent syn oil, but I only knew I could with oil testing and observing trends.
The Tdi I ended up at stock intervals, it's bloody hard on oil. IMO a limited sump capacity for the loads involved and not enough oil cooling kill oil quickly.

I bet you were told you shouldn't use a synthetic oil in the Tdi as it was 'old school' and the clearances were too large?
Or It was too slippery?
Both are a nonsense.

[DiscoMick]

Yep, full syn in the Tdi and the TD42T Nissan, which was supposed to have 5,000km oil changes.
At the time that was an oil change every 2.5-3 weeks, I kid you not.
12.5 litres and two oil filters.
I quadrupled that oil change interval easily with a decent syn oil, but I only knew I could with oil testing and observing trends.
The Tdi I ended up at stock intervals, it's bloody hard on oil. IMO a limited sump capacity for the loads involved and not enough oil cooling kill oil quickly.

I bet you were told you shouldn't use a synthetic oil in the Tdi as it was 'old school' and the clearances were too large?
Or It was too slippery?
Both are a nonsense.Yep, that's pretty much what I was told. Something about full synthetic being for engines with finer clearances, from memory.
Interesting.

[shanegtr]

I sample engine oils at every change, diffs, power steering, AT and transfer get done regularly as well. Looking at oil samples is just one part of my job so I do it mainly for interest sake, but I also like the fact that I can get a possible early warning on any potential issues before failure.

I'm actually going to be changing my engine oil cooler as a response to coolant in the engine oil that I've noticed during routine sampling. I'm not 100% sure that its the cause but it seems to be a more likely source than a head gasket failure from what I've read

[DazzaTD5]

I sample engine oils at every change, diffs, power steering, AT and transfer get done regularly as well. Looking at oil samples is just one part of my job so I do it mainly for interest sake, but I also like the fact that I can get a possible early warning on any potential issues before failure.

I'm actually going to be changing my engine oil cooler as a response to coolant in the engine oil that I've noticed during routine sampling. I'm not 100% sure that its the cause but it seems to be a more likely source than a head gasket failure from what I've read

I absolutely respect anyone doing it for interest sake. (or if its part of your job).

[loanrangie]

I absolutely respect anyone doing it for interest sake. (or if its part of your job).

Is oil nerd a thing ?[bigrolf]

[M005]

Thread update; I heard back from Pacific Land Rover yesterday and Land Rover Australia have agreed to pay 100% parts and labour for a new engine and anything else required - which is great news and a huge relief. :banana::twobeers::thumbsup::clap2:

Parts are being sourced and then it'll need 5 days in the workshop, so don't have a date yet for it to be returned, but hopeful it will be this side of Christmas.

[DiscoDB]

Fantastic news. That is a great outcome.

[DazzaTD5]

Is oil nerd a thing ?[bigrolf]

nerd tendencies can be applied to lots of applications, mechanical things being one of them [tonguewink]

[Aussie Jeepster]

Thread update; I heard back from Pacific Land Rover yesterday and Land Rover Australia have agreed to pay 100% parts and labour for a new engine and anything else required - which is great news and a huge relief. :banana::twobeers::thumbsup::clap2:

Parts are being sourced and then it'll need 5 days in the workshop, so don't have a date yet for it to be returned, but hopeful it will be this side of Christmas.

Awesome news, great to hear a positive outcome.

[DI5CO]

Wow, that’s awesome news. I can only imagine the relief!!

[DazzaTD5]

Thread update; I heard back from Pacific Land Rover yesterday and Land Rover Australia have agreed to pay 100% parts and labour for a new engine and anything else required - which is great news and a huge relief. :banana::twobeers::thumbsup::clap2:

Parts are being sourced and then it'll need 5 days in the workshop, so don't have a date yet for it to be returned, but hopeful it will be this side of Christmas.

As you say great news and a huge relief.
A positive spin for Land Rover Australia in every way and this sort of no BS response is ALL owners of Land Rovers want and lets face it expect.

[thumbsupbig]

[goldey]

That's awesome news mate. I'm glad they came to the party for you, considering how much newer yours is compared to mine. I'm assuming that if I had've kept holding the line then they may have gone to bat for some of the costs but definitely not the whole lot like yours. Awesome outcome :clap2:

[PeterJ]

Excellent news for you M005, thanks for posting and keeping it up to date. It's also great news for the brand and the other owners out there that LRA actually care about customers and the public perception of the brand. Most of us here are aware of the numerous high profile disputes with customers that become cannon fodder for the media, John Cadogan comes to mind, so I wonder if he would acknowledge a LR good news story as well.

[shanegtr]

Great outcome!

[TuffRR]

Most of us here are aware of the numerous high profile disputes with customers that become cannon fodder for the media, John Cadogan comes to mind, so I wonder if he would acknowledge a LR good news story as well.

Really all they are doing is what they are obligated to do. Its a shame that because they voluntarily did it, that this is considered a good news story. But either way, great news for the OP.

[Birdboy]

Thread update; I heard back from Pacific Land Rover yesterday and Land Rover Australia have agreed to pay 100% parts and labour for a new engine and anything else required - which is great news and a huge relief. :banana::twobeers::thumbsup::clap2:

Parts are being sourced and then it'll need 5 days in the workshop, so don't have a date yet for it to be returned, but hopeful it will be this side of Christmas.

Fantastic news!
May I ask - do you think they are coming to the party because you bought it from a dealer?
Just wondering if you'd bought from a private sale if that would have made any difference?
(Questions from a curious "hoping one day to buy a Disco4" onlooker)