Changes to vehicle testing regime...over here not over there.

[spudfan]

This won't impact any of you antipodeans but it is to come into effect over here. The test is very strict as it is. This is just something else that is being added to the pass/fail regime.

In an effort to meet Ireland’s strategic objectives and continue to lead the way in improving road safety through the use of vehicle technology. Ireland in accordance with EU Directive 2014/45, will commence the use of OBD testing as part of the National Car Test (NCT) from 21st June 2021.

Ireland will be one of the first of the EU Member states to implement this new approach of testing which will help contribute to significantly safer vehicles on Irish roads.

The following changes will come into effect in the NCT from the 21st June 2021.

NCT Manual 2021

From this date, a new version of the NCT manual V5.0 (June 2021) will come into operation. The NCT manual lists each item on which a car will be tested. It lays down the test method and pass/fail criteria to be adopted for the compulsory road-worthiness testing of passenger vehicles. It provides guidance in relation to why a vehicle may fail the NCT and the categorisation of defects.

The new manual is updated in line with Directive 2014/45 (EU) and is available for download on the NCTS website (Home (http://www.ncts.ie)) and Road Safety Authority website (RSA.ie - Home (http://www.rsa.ie))

OBD Testing

An On-Board Diagnostics System (OBD) is a computer system inside a vehicle, that tracks and regulates a car's performance. It collects information from sensors inside the vehicle, to alert the user to a problem, often before it becomes a major issue.

From the 21st June, OBD testing will become an inspection item in the NCT. It will be introduced on a phased basis. Initially, when an OBD error code is detected it will result in the vehicle receiving an “Advisory Pass”. Then, from early 2022, when an error code is detected, this may constitute a reason for “failure”.

The inspection is quick and easy, the NCT Vehicle Inspector will plug the OBD scanner into the vehicle's OBD computer port known as the DLC (data link connector). This port is usually located under the steering wheel but may also be found in the glove compartment of the vehicle.

This OBD scanner will quickly indicate whether or not error codes exist, and it also helps and alerts the Vehicle Inspector to possible defects within the vehicle.

In order for the NCTS to conduct the inspection, we ask customers to ensure:

Their glove compartments are unlocked and clear of personal belongings before their NCT.
That any devices using the OBD port in the vehicle are removed in advance of the NCT.

The OBD scanner will scan the OBD system for:

Vehicle Identification Number (VIN)

Using the OBD scanner, the Vehicle Inspector will verify that the VIN read by the OBD scanner matches the number on the vehicle. While a difference will not be a reason for failure, the OBD VIN reading will be recorded on the VIR (Vehicle Inspection Report) issued to the customer.

Odometer Reading

The Vehicle Inspector will record the odometer reading at the time of the test. They will also verify the reading using the OBD scanner and customers will be alerted to both readings on their VIR report.

Electronic Braking System (EBS)

Any error code associated with the electronic braking system will be recorded on the Vehicle Inspection Report (VIR) provided to the customer following their NCT inspection.

Anti-lock Braking System (ABS)

Any error code associated with the antilock braking system will be recorded on the Vehicle Inspection Report (VIR) provided to the customer following their NCT inspection.

While, initially, vehicles with error codes will be recorded as ‘Advisory Pass’, the NCTS strongly recommends that any error codes be addressed by the vehicle repairer. However, the vehicle will not need to return for re-inspection, for these items alone.

From early 2022, should certain error codes be detected, they will constitute a reason for failure in the NCT and an NCT certificate will not be issued until the items are rectified and a pass result is achieved.

We recommend you liaise with your local garage/ mechanic who should be equipped with the necessary diagnostic equipment to perform this scan in advance of going for an NCT.

Escalation of Defects

The new NCT manual identifies that, where a combination of deficiencies is recorded in the NCT in one area of a vehicle, the combination of deficiencies could lead to the result of the NCT being escalated to ‘fail dangerous’.

An example of one such combination is the inspection item, Brake Pedal. If the following 3 major defects appear on the overall test result, the result will be escalated to fail dangerous:

Pedal travel is excessive, obstructed or insufficient reserve travel.
Brake control not releasing correctly.
Travel in the brake pedal indicates air in the brake system or brakes are in need of adjustment

In such instances, the deficiencies are considered to constitute a direct or immediate risk to road safety and the vehicle should not be driven on the road under any circumstances, in accordance with The Road Traffic (National Car Test) Regulations 2017, S.I. 415 of 2017.

For more information on these changes please see our FAQ

For further information on the items inspected in the NCT, please refer to the NCT Manual

[RobMichelle]

Jeepers, the 3 omigos sudden appearance will cause a lot of headaches for d2’s over there.

[V8Ian]

Jeepers, the 3 omigos sudden appearance will cause a lot of headaches for d2’s over there.
With Europe's fondness of chucking salt all over the roads, in winter, they've probably all rusted away. [bigsad]

[RANDLOVER]

With Europe's fondness of chucking salt all over the roads, in winter, they've probably all rusted away. [bigsad]

IIRC unlike D1's where the whole chassis rusts away, D2's are prone to rust only on the rear 1/4 of the chassis.

[Milton477]

"Oh & we see via the OBD that you have been speeding on various occasions. Here are the fines & we get to keep your vehicle thank you."

BIG DADDY is watching!

Just wait till the info is uploaded automatically via your own home wifi or mobile data & the fines are emailed to you.

[RobMichelle]

"Oh & we see via the OBD that you have been speeding on various occasions. Here are the fines & we get to keep your vehicle thank you."

BIG DADDY is watching!

Just wait till the info is uploaded automatically via your own home wifi or mobile data & the fines are emailed to you.

Just like epa fines on a loud Harley just get em in the mail.

[jonesfam]

How often does the Land of the Leprechaun have vehicle inspections?
It has always intrigued me that Aus has such differing rules for this between States.
In QLD you only need a pretty basic inspection when selling the car but I think some States have an annual inspection.
In the Gulf Country there are some pretty doggy cars & trucks driving about.
Jonesfam

[JDNSW]

How do they do the OBD tests on cars with no computers? Neither of my Landrovers have computers! (2a and 110)

[p38arover]

Just like epa fines on a loud Harley just get em in the mail.

When do Harleys get fines for excessive noise? Not often enough!

[scarry]

So I wonder if it picks up if the vehicle is tuned?
And EGR’s are blanked?

I bet it does 😩

[V8Ian]

When do Harleys get fines for excessive noise? Not often enough!
171699 Hey?

[Homestar]

When do Harleys get fines for excessive noise? Not often enough!

It's not the bikes themselves - Harleys are dead quiet out of the factory - it's the meathead owners that change that. One of the young blokes across the road bought one recently - for 2 weeks you could barely notice him coming and going - in fact the immobiliser beeping when he got off it made more noise than the bike, but then he went (like most do) and got some aftermarket pipes fitted (Harley won't do this prior to delivery any more) and it rattles the windows now.

I did go and have a quiet chat to him saying if he revved the thing while in our street he'd find the tyres flat one morning so he idles out of the estate now. I get on well with them all so it was said with a smile on my face and he laughed - but he got the message loud and clear so to speak.

[Homestar]

"Oh & we see via the OBD that you have been speeding on various occasions. Here are the fines & we get to keep your vehicle thank you."

BIG DADDY is watching!

Just wait till the info is uploaded automatically via your own home wifi or mobile data & the fines are emailed to you.

Just another reason to keep my mid 70's fleet of vehicles going a while longer. [biggrin]

[Saitch]

'An On-Board Diagnostics System (OBD) is a computer system inside a vehicle, that tracks and regulates a car's performance.'

I don't think the missus would take too kindly to having some bloke try to plug her in to something.

[d2dave]

Just buy an OBD scan tool and clear all the faults before taking the vehicle for testing.

[spudfan]

How often does the Land of the Leprechaun have vehicle inspections?
It has always intrigued me that Aus has such differing rules for this between States.
In QLD you only need a pretty basic inspection when selling the car but I think some States have an annual inspection.
In the Gulf Country there are some pretty doggy cars & trucks driving about.
Jonesfam

Passenger (M1)vehicles start when they are four years old and it is every two years. When a vehicle reached ten years of age it is tested yearly.
Commercial vehicles (N1) are yearly from day one. The cost of the N1 test is about twice as much as the M1 test.
When a vehicle reaches 30 years of age it is tested every two years provided it is not used for commercial purposes.
Vehicles registered before 1980 are exempt from testing. However this will probably change as we are one of a small group of countries that does not test pre 1980 vehicles and the EU is pushing for all vehicles to be tested.
The M1/N1 classification depends on the log book and manufacturers designation not how you tax it.
Our 2008 Puma is designated as M1 as goes for the NCT test.
Our 2011 Puma which is identical but is designated as N1 on the log book has to go for the CVRT commercial test which is more expensive.
The N1 designaton came about when Land Rover wanted to keep the Defender in production longer. In order to avoid having to fit airbags etc which all passenger M1 vehicles had to have they went to Europe and got the Defender classed as a commercial N1 even station wagons. Our government was not happy with this as the government purchase tax on N1 is a lot less than on M1 class vehicles but that loop hole with station wagon type vehicles coming in as N1 is now closed.
The testing is very strict even the visual part . It is done at specialised centres,

[3toes]

How things change. It was not so long ago in Ireland you could drive for life on a learners permit even fail the test for a license and hop back in the car and drive home

[spudfan]

How things change. It was not so long ago in Ireland you could drive for life on a learners permit even fail the test for a license and hop back in the car and drive home

I think there have been some changes but there are still a lot of "learner" licences out there. Here is the latest.

Period of Learner Permit Permit Count
2 years First or second learner permit
2 years Third or subsequent learner permit - you must show evidence of failing a driving test in the previous two years
1 year Third or subsequent learner permit - you must show evidence of having applied for or having a forthcoming test date
Rules:

You must always have someone with a full driving licence in the car with you when you are driving on a learner permit. This person must have had their driving licence for at least 2 years. If the Gardaí stop you, and you are not accompanied by a qualified driver, they can detain the car.
You must display L-plates to the front and rear of the vehicle at all times while driving. The plate should be a red ‘L’ on a white background and should not be less than 15cm high with a border of at least 2cm.
You must adhere to a reduced drink driving limit and penalty point disqualification threshold.
You must not drive on a motorway.
You must not to draw a trailer.
You must not act as an accompanying driver.
You must not carry other people for reward.
If you own a car, you will be guilty of an offence if you let someone drive it in a public place when they:
Don’t have a driving licence or learner permit; or
Have a learner permit but drive your car without being accompanied by a qualified driver
For further information, consult the learner permit section of the Road Safety Authority’s ‘Rules of the

[Tote]

Just buy an OBD scan tool and clear all the faults before taking the vehicle for testing.

Pretty much my thoughts - there might be more detailed tracking on some vehicles but that would not be part of the OBD suite of indicators that is an industry standard. A case in point is Tiger Woods recent bingle where the California authorities retrieved information from the onboard systems in his car. That stuff is well beyond the capabilities and access provided by OBD and would have been retrieved with the assistance of the dealer, probably with a court order.

Regards,
Tote

[Redback]

This should be an interesting conversation next time I speak to my sister in Dublin, I can hear her now[bigwhistle](oh Jesus, Mary and Joseph)

[V8Ian]

Pretty much my thoughts - there might be more detailed tracking on some vehicles but that would not be part of the OBD suite of indicators that is an industry standard. A case in point is Tiger Woods recent bingle where the California authorities retrieved information from the onboard systems in his car. That stuff is well beyond the capabilities and access provided by OBD and would have been retrieved with the assistance of the dealer, probably with a court order.

Regards,
Tote
Not quite that difficult. RMS inspections can reveal that information, from trucks, on a routine roadside inspection. A few truck drivers have found themselves in a world of hurt, for breaches committed months previously, in another jurisdiction.

[Tote]

Not quite that difficult. RMS inspections can reveal that information, from trucks, on a routine roadside inspection. A few truck drivers have found themselves in a world of hurt, for breaches committed months previously, in another jurisdiction.

Trucks are presumably a little different but OBD is a fairly standard set of parameters mostly centred around emissions control. this is an interesting subject and I'll do some more research. From this On-board diagnostics - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics) the OBD standard has a fairly limited number of retained parameters without an external data logger being fitted. For arguments sake you can request the speed of a vehicle with a command but OBD will only return the immediate reading and will not log it, unlike a fault reading related to a failed O2 sensor which is recorded as a hard fault and is retreviable by the Standard OBD reader.

In relation to this if I had a map on my engine that tripped a fault with an O2 sensor then remapping for the inspection and clearing the fault would in all likelihood not be picked up by the inspector with his standard OBD reader.

Happy to be corrected by someone who understands more , particularly around how the data loggers work in trucks, my experience ends with paper loggers incorporated into speedos with lead seals on them :-)

Regards,
Tote

[scarry]

Pretty much my thoughts - there might be more detailed tracking on some vehicles but that would not be part of the OBD suite of indicators that is an industry standard. A case in point is Tiger Woods recent bingle where the California authorities retrieved information from the onboard systems in his car. That stuff is well beyond the capabilities and access provided by OBD and would have been retrieved with the assistance of the dealer, probably with a court order.

Regards,
Tote

It’s in the D4 handbook,something about an onboard system that records information that can be retrieved.

Clearing faults before an inspection is fine,but they could return anytime no doubt,even during the inspection.

[Tote]

Yes, but not with a standard OBD reader, the LR service tool can undoubtedly pull lots of info to void your warranty claim but an inspector is unlikely to be able to access it without a court order and assistance from a dealer. The latest Jeep Wranglers are encrypted and have yet to be cracked so that aftermarket gadgets can alter parameters ( will only be a matter of time though)

Regards,
Tote

[V8Ian]

Yes, but not with a standard OBD reader, the LR service tool can undoubtedly pull lots of info to void your warranty claim but an inspector is unlikely to be able to access it without a court order and assistance from a dealer. The latest Jeep Wranglers are encrypted and have yet to be cracked so that aftermarket gadgets can alter parameters ( will only be a matter of time though)

Regards,
Tote
No court order needed, I imagine specific legislation has been written to permit it. It's being done at roadside checks, no doubt any truck significantly exceeding the mandated limiter will be inviting a plug in.
They're not using a $30 generic reader, it's a laptop. I don't know if any other jurisdictions have the same capabilities.

[Tote]

Hi Ian,

Is this the stuff you are talking about? ELECTRONIC WORK DIARIES FINALLY GIVEN THE THUMBS UP BY NHVR | Truck & Bus News (https://www.truckandbus.net.au/electronic-work-diaries-given-the-thumbs-up-by-nhvr/)

Regards,
Tote

[V8Ian]

No Tote, I'm referring to truck related data. I don't know all that is stored, but according to an RMS Inspector, speed/time/date and interference/abnormalities with the speed limiter can be retrieved.

[spudfan]

Sometimes inspectors from the overseeing body of the testing arrive at the testing centre. They sometimes put a vehicle that has been through the test back through and do another test to make sure that the people doing the test are following the guidelines.
I have an issue with this. Once when the 2008 Puma was tested, which she passed, when I got the test results I was checking them and I noticed one of the suspension readings was close to the fail zone. I asked the tester who was a very nice bloke if I needed to get anything done. And I quote..
"No, it's that ****ing machine. If I put the vehicle through now I'd get a bloody different result."
My 2.25 LR 88 diesel was in for the test, and passed. But because I had missed the last test as it was getting rebuilt on a new chassis the computer insisted another test was due..the next day! This was out of the test centre's hands but they fitted me in that afternoon. The second test completed a few hours later had different results on some of the test than the first one but by small margins.
Tests are valid from the date due. If you miss it by weeks or months you have that much time less on your new cert.
Your insurance is only valid if you have a valid test certificate.

[Tote]

NSW has these suckers to test vehicle brakes
Trans Lock "BTM3" Cable-less Brake Meter / Brake Test Meter / Brake Tester ("C") | eBay (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/402771909108?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=705-139619-5960-0&mkcid=2&itemid=402771909108&targetid=1278430613976&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9072286&poi=&campaignid=12502547511&mkgroupid=123612187918&rlsatarget=pla-1278430613976&abcId=9300512&merchantid=7364522&gclid=EAIaIQobChMItqLwkICr8QIVyZVLBR3_Ew1yEAYYASAB EgIW9vD_BwE)

There may be a knack to waving them around and pressing the brake switch at the appropriate time to generate a suitable reading without road testing the vehicle. That would be a wrong thing to do of course........

Regards,
Tote

[350RRC]

Weren't Oz made cars getting warranties voided 10 or so years ago coz they'd logged big km/h figures which showed up when being serviced?

Glad the ciggie lighter in my POS can't disclose a lot of info. It's the only thing I can plug in apart from the trailer socket.

DL

[prelude]

Standard OBD does not log anything but errors AFAIK. Also, resetting the OBD (clearing faults) IS registered by most vehicles and down here when faults are cleared moments before the MOT it is reason for suspicion. So there is that. On the other hand, whilst that came in the "three amigo's" are no longer considered a fault! I have a car that has the ABS come on every now and then and when it's on during MOT testing it's only a repair advisory, NOT a fail so -eh- you win some you lose some.

The real gimmickery starts with newer vehicles and 5G. To no ones surprise I suppose, car makers are pushing hard for 5G to happen. Cars will be constantly connected to the headquarters (I used to work for BMW IT department so I saw the development of this kinda stuff) and log just about anything and everything. So if you over rev when cold and turn in for a checkup your warranty is void. They can even access the parking camera's and check to see what the car is doing.

Pretty sure that info is not available for the purposes of road worthy testing but the logging capabilities will increase drastically.

Regarding EGR deletes and such. Over here the car needs a visual inspection but! if you pass the emissions testing on a measuring device at the tailpipe, you pass. Does not matter what is fitted or not. For example a catalytic converter is not mandatory for vehicles before 1993 I believe. So my 1992 prelude HAD one, but I removed it. My papers state it has one but it can be tested as if it does not and meets the emission standards for a vehicle without (easily I might say).

But, in the end, who will actually OWN a vehicle in a couple of years? companies like BMW are already aiming to become their own ubers. Also fits with the latest scam "you will own nothing and be happy"...

[Graeme]

There may be a knack to waving them around and pressing the brake switch at the appropriate time to generate a suitable reading without road testing the vehicle. That would be a wrong thing to do of course........
The tester can simply do the test in a different vehicle.

[superquag]

"Oh & we see via the OBD that you have been speeding on various occasions. Here are the fines & we get to keep your vehicle thank you."

BIG DADDY is watching!

Just wait till the info is uploaded automatically via your own home wifi or mobile data & the fines are emailed to you.

So WHY do you now think that 5G was rolled out at Warp Speed during the initial lockdowns - WORLDWIDE. ?
- 5G's claim to fame is humungous more bandwith.... ideal for huge video (Watching YOU everywhere) and untold trivia data.

It's all about 'control' of the peasants. Tracking them everywhere, and restricting them from free movement... And full electric cars are a Gift for this.... as in Remote control and modification. - TESLA can remotely, without you knowing, alter the "capacity / range" of your battery, as they did during a Florida cyclone evacuation...

[superquag]

My cynical opinion to the 'need' for Safety Inspections is best summarized in the Great Seatbelt Life-Saving back here :- https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/general-chat/171777d1624444679-interesting-odd-funny-pics-ii-road-traffic-deaths-1950-2002.jpg

Again, see if you can spot the sudden and sustained dip in the orange line, when belting up became Law in UK.....


GMH had an embarrassing episode with their first airbagged Holdens... (Good on them for precision data....) Optionally fitted airbags KILLED a higher % of idjits than the SAME car without, but without, suburban drivers suffered more serious upper body damage than the airbagged country flyers... Came down to Human Factors. Having an airbag subtly convinced the hoon he was invincible...at any speed.... so he invariably pranged at Warp 3 and away from slower traffic.

How many cars are 'FAILED' for grossly mal-adjusted / dazzling headlamps ?

Or cars - on the road - retro-fitted with LED globes ? Or HID ?

[spudfan]

"How many cars are 'FAILED' for grossly mal-adjusted / dazzling headlamps ?"
Head lights are tested on dip beam over here.
Here is what is tested
https://www.rsa.ie/Documents/NCT/New%202018/NCT%20Manual%202018.pdf