Smoky TD5 esp idling

[Graeme]

Helping a local D2 TD5 owner diagnose engine problems whereby it runs well for a couple of weeks then looses power then eventually won't start. Also in recent months it started producing lots of whiteish smoke especially while idling, except none for the first couple of minutes after a drive. Oil in the ecu connector was cleaned with metho then dried, hoping that to be the cause of the low power and non-starting. The I/C inlet hose has no signs of delamination and the smoke is whiteish, not black. A new injector loom will be obtained and possibly the external loom too.

The crankcase breather doesn't appear to be anything other than straight through. I don't recall what they look like inside but there was no sign of a spring and plate that I expected to be visible in order to close at higher engine revs. Can someone advise what should be visible in the valve please? I'm wondering that if the valve is non-existent then the I/C may have an excessive volume of engine oil although I would then expect smoke under power rather than when idling. There doesn't seem to be excessive blow-by from the breather when idling although a little smokier than I expected. The exhaust smoke at idle doesn't decrease if the breather pipe is detached.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Graeme

Edit: 218K kms, auto, MY2004 owned since 2008.

[discorevy]

If the white smoke smells like diesel rather than oil I'd be suspecting injector washers, does the pump sound normal with ignition on engine off ?.

[John_D4]

Could it be a blocked turbo drain hose? Thought oil filling into the turbo world give you occasional white smoke.

[Graeme]

The smoke smells like kerosene not oil so presumably diesel and smelt the same when no smoke after a run. The pump sounds normal although I don't recall hearing mine's pump so loudly but I wasn't accustomed to standing outside my vehicle when starting it. The owner said that a lot of the time he has to wait for the pump to go quiet before the engine will start. This was in response to my saying no need to wait after switching on the ignition....

I never had fuelling issues with my 2 TD5s. Thanks for replying and for the suggestion.

[Graeme]

Could it be a blocked turbo drain hose? Thought oil filling into the turbo world give you occasional white smoke.
The smoke is constant at idle once it starts after a run and it's not blue or smelling oily. Unseen I suggested unburnt fuel but wasn't 100% sure when at the vehicle.

The owner had sent the vehicle to a local European vehicle "specialist" who had no idea so sent it to a fuel injection specialist who diagnosed it as needing a full rebuild but with no explanation for the power loss or non-starting. The oil in the ecu plug was significant even though the owner had removed the sealing ring several weeks ago at my suggestion but the connector hadn't been dismantled and cleaned properly.

Thanks for the suggestion.

[AK83]

yeah, sounds a lot like injector seals. Smokey, power los and hard starts .. same happened to my brothers(now my) D2 some time back.

Also, inspect the FPR too. If possible, check fuel pressure.

When the injector seals issue started and engine would lose power, it got to the point where it lost all power and shut down. It was a gradual change from losing power to shut down.

While it was still in the losing power stage, when we felt it losing power, we'd pull over somewhere, shut it down, start it up again and it felt fine.

When it got to the shut down phase, it happened randomly and you could be stuck in the middle of the road. It'd be a mongrel to start again. Doing the fuel priming routine got it started much quicker than simply trying to start it again. Even if the priming routine was interrupted say after 60 sec .. not the full procedure.

[Graeme]

Thanks Arthur, your conditions match exactly with what I was told happens with this one. Therefore perhaps the oil at the ecu connector may have had nothing to do with the current misbehaviour.

The injector specialist noted that the fuel pressure was a bit low but the owner only got a shrug when asked by what standard. From the reports they didn't know anything about the TD5 and therefore may not have known the normal pressure.

[Keegan]

Helping a local D2 TD5 owner diagnose engine problems whereby it runs well for a couple of weeks then looses power then eventually won't start. Also in recent months it started producing lots of whiteish smoke especially while idling, except none for the first couple of minutes after a drive. Oil in the ecu connector was cleaned with metho then dried, hoping that to be the cause of the low power and non-starting. The I/C inlet hose has no signs of delamination and the smoke is whiteish, not black. A new injector loom will be obtained and possibly the external loom too.

The crankcase breather doesn't appear to be anything other than straight through. I don't recall what they look like inside but there was no sign of a spring and plate that I expected to be visible in order to close at higher engine revs. Can someone advise what should be visible in the valve please? I'm wondering that if the valve is non-existent then the I/C may have an excessive volume of engine oil although I would then expect smoke under power rather than when idling. There doesn't seem to be excessive blow-by from the breather when idling although a little smokier than I expected. The exhaust smoke at idle doesn't decrease if the breather pipe is detached.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Graeme

Edit: 218K kms, auto, MY2004 owned since 2008.
if the injector seals are failing fuel pump will get a loud sound like it is sucking air, the engine compression pushes fuel out of the lines then car starts slowing without accelerator response and then stops. Turn off wait and then turn ignition on, don't start car but pump accelerator 5 plus times and car will purge fuel lines. Get the seals replaced asap

[Graeme]

Thanks - the owner is awaiting the arrival of an injector overhaul kit.

[DazzaTD5]

Thanks - the owner is awaiting the arrival of an injector overhaul kit.

*My guess is the in tank low pressure fuel pump.
*only a VDO replacement pump, the cheap ones last mere months.
*expensive item but 15 mins to change out.

*Doing the injector harness, cleaning the external harness and clean the red plug on the ecu are all good maintenance items anyway.
*As is a fuel pressure regulator.

[Graeme]

The injector o-rings and washers were changed today, initially with no exhaust smoke but with a little hiccup shortly after traced to an injector o-ring not in the correct groove which quickly raised the sump oil level by about 6 inches causing uncontrolled engine run-on. An oil and filter change will be done next w/e hoping for a better result.

[discorevy]

The injector o-rings and washers were changed today, initially with no exhaust smoke but with a little hiccup shortly after traced to an injector o-ring not in the correct groove which quickly raised the sump oil level by about 6 inches causing uncontrolled engine run-on. An oil and filter change will be done next w/e hoping for a better result.

How did you stop the engine Graeme? , manual box?
FWIW, you will feel when the "o" rings seat properly assuming genuine "o" rings

[Graeme]

I squeezed the intake hose with multi-grips. I grabbed a screw-driver and multi-grips but left the knife in the toolbox, hoping not to destroy the hose. The owner was very concerned at not being able to stop the revving but I was travelling close behind so very quickly shut it down.

I had noted at the time that the injector basically slipped into place rather than needing a bump with the large screwdriver that I used on the other 4. I must have been distracted to not finish seating the o-ring as there's no other explanation. That the fuel system took a very long time to prime then the engine took a very long time to start was probably due to the pump not being able to build enough pressure. The leaking injector was easily spotted when the ignition was switched on with the cover removed as fuel was spraying from around the injector.

I made my TDV8 close its EGR butterfly for 15 seconds when the ignition is switched off in case of engine runaway. I had also fitted a similar system to my TD5 D2 to close its EGR butterfly.

[Slunnie]

Well done, that was some quick thinking. Hopefully just that seal will sort the problem. It sounds like it filled up pretty quickly.

They do take a long time to purge, get the fuel through and start. Far longer than expected.

[Graeme]

As I said to the owner after the first start-up, the change of seals needs to be proven to have solved the problem which will still need to be proven after the oil change. However there was no carbon around the original washer on co-incidentally this same injector, unlike the other injectors, possibly suggesting that it had been flushed with fuel although the other 4 washers showed signs of uneven sealing. All the injector clamp bolts were relatively loose requiring minimal effort to release whereas the bolts on the rocker arm were very tight yet they're all meant to be tightened to the same torque. My impact wrench couldn't release the rocker arm bolts.

[Slunnie]

As I said to the owner after the first start-up, the change of seals needs to be proven to have solved the problem which will still need to be proven after the oil change. However there was no carbon around the original washer on co-incidentally this same injector, unlike the other injectors, possibly suggesting that it had been flushed with fuel although the other 4 washers showed signs of uneven sealing. All the injector clamp bolts were relatively loose requiring minimal effort to release whereas the bolts on the rocker arm were very tight yet they're all meant to be tightened to the same torque. My impact wrench couldn't release the rocker arm bolts.

Thats a worry also when the HT bolts are going into aluminium. Interestingly, my persistent seal leaking also involved a cracked piston.

[RANDLOVER]

I squeezed the intake hose with multi-grips. I grabbed a screw-driver and multi-grips but left the knife in the toolbox, hoping not to destroy the hose. The owner was very concerned at not being able to stop the revving but I was travelling close behind so very quickly shut it down.

I had noted at the time that the injector basically slipped into place rather than needing a bump with the large screwdriver that I used on the other 4. I must have been distracted to not finish seating the o-ring as there's no other explanation. That the fuel system took a very long time to prime then the engine took a very long time to start was probably due to the pump not being able to build enough pressure. The leaking injector was easily spotted when the ignition was switched on with the cover removed as fuel was spraying from around the injector.

I made my TDV8 close its EGR butterfly for 15 seconds when the ignition is switched off in case of engine runaway. I had also fitted a similar system to my TD5 D2 to close its EGR butterfly.

Wow that was quick thinking, the only other runaway I've heard of being stopped was by a guy taking off his jacket and stuffing it in the air intake. I've also heard the theory of squirting a co2 fire extinguisher in the air intake IIRC, as no oxygen equals no run.

[Graeme]

After having drained about 22L from the sump then filled with new oil and spin-on filter and the I/C R&R'd to drain around half a litre, the exhaust smoked for about the 1st 10km at 100 kph then no more smoke and the engine pulls and idles as it should. The owner is chuffed!

Thanks to those who suggested possible/probable causes of the original problems.