fantastic stripdown of 300 series Landcruiser.

[PhilipA]

I was fascinated by this, and shows the detail thought that goes into a Cruiser.

Dissecting the new Toyota LandCruiser 300 Series | fullBOOST - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rncDQRINHL4&ab_channel=Fullboost)

Regards PhilipA

[Tombie]

Thought? Mimic, non-innovative, cloning.

And do you really think that engine is easier to work on than ours?

Or how about the trans ECU on top of the unit. [emoji41]

[shack]

Thought? Mimic, non-innovative, cloning.

And do you really think that engine is easier to work on than ours?

Or how about the trans ECU on top of the unit. [emoji41]Tombie... Non innovative? Surely you jest... Don't you realise they use an "on demand Atkinson cycle" ... That tech has only been around for about 140 years, as far as Toyota goes, that's almost ahead of the curve!!

[Tins]

Can we take a minute to think about that hoist???

[Tombie]

Can we take a minute to think about that hoist???

Isn’t that a thing of beauty!

[Tins]

Isn’t that a thing of beauty!

Covet much??

[Tins]

Or how about the trans ECU on top of the unit. [emoji41]

Body off job???[bigsad][bigsmile]

[Tombie]

Covet much??

Indeed…. If I could dig into the bluestone below my shed to fit one like that I certainly would.

[trout1105]

The 4.5 Diesel V8 is a Much less complicated engine than this new V6 version and it looks to be an absloute bastard to do any work/maintenance on.
I Love my 79 Series with the 4.5 V8 in it because of the simple design of it, Why change something that is an obvious winner in the first place?

[Tins]

it, Why change something that is an obvious winner in the first place?
Simple. Emissions and economy. It’ll be an ev next

[oka374]

Tins that hoist won't lift your Oka ;-))
Lifting something as heavy as the Oka on two posts seems a bit on the sketchy side so installed a 6.5 tonne four poster with two 3t rolling beams instead in my shed. Can lift the Oka off the hoist when required, makes it easy for wheel rotations.

[Tins]

Tins that hoist won't lift your Oka ;-))
Lifting something as heavy as the Oka on two posts seems a bit on the sketchy side so installed a 6.5 tonne four poster with two 3t rolling beams instead in my shed. Can lift the Oka off the hoist when required, makes it easy for wheel rotations.

Tipping your shed also has a high roof.

[ramblingboy42]

that strip down was amazing on a brand new zero km vehicle.

the firm knows that within months the popularity of the vehicle will create a parts bin bonanza and subsequently will be ready when that occurs.

it's interesting to see anti Toyota members here already getting hackles down their back , you can see that the L300 is going to be a very good vehicle.

I haven't heard of this being done on a Defender , has anyone?

[trout1105]

It's impossible to separate the body from the chassis in the new Fender and seriously why would anyone bother to do it.
The aftermarket gear fot the 300 series will be a massive market, With the new Fender people will struggle to even get wheel/tyre upgrades let alone anything else.
If this new cruiser is only half as good as the last one the sales of them will still make the numbers for JLR look insignificant.

Love them or hate them Toyota has made bloody good 4WD's for decades and their sales reflect that.

[Bulletman]

It's impossible to separate the body from the chassis in the new Fender and seriously why would anyone bother to do it.
The aftermarket gear fot the 300 series will be a massive market, With the new Fender people will struggle to even get wheel/tyre upgrades let alone anything else.
If this new cruiser is only half as good as the last one the sales of them will still make the numbers for JLR look insignificant.

Love them or hate them Toyota has made bloody good 4WD's for decades and their sales reflect that.

Yep, you will never see that dedication to a strip down of a Land Rover as they just don’t sell enough of any model.

Anyone who can do that to a 20km old vehicle knows the demand for what they can produce to suit that car to on sell to producers of after market components.

I’m not a Toyota fan , but plenty of friends and work colleagues have them and if they offered me a land cruiser I wouldn’t knock it back.

Land Rover have a long way to go , even the #1 defender fanboy doesn’t seem to be here telling us of the new defender anymore.

Bulletman

[scarry]

The aftermarket gear fot the 300 series will be a massive market, With the new Fender people will struggle to even get wheel/tyre upgrades let alone anything else.

Love them or hate them Toyota has made bloody good 4WD's for decades and their sales reflect that.

The after market guys are already sorted.GVM upgrade will be available in a couple of weeks,TJM already have bars,racks,side steps,etc.Same for ARB,and Milford,with both getting a head start as they built the OEM accessories.

After market wheels are available.

Compare that to D5,as an example that has vitually no available accessories from the major players,and its been around for something like 5 yrs.As said,same as New Deefer.

What they have done is stuck with something that is tried and tested,why do a huge major change,when its not broken?
Compare the D4 to D5 change,pushed the vehicle up into another class,a completely new vehicle,no doubt R & D,etc would have been huge,which didnt help sales,and made it more complicated,for little gain.

Has anyone had a good look at the front suspension and hub set up of a new Deefer,or for that matter any modern LR,its so complicated,its rediculous,for what,some small gain the average Jo wouldnt even notice?

Toyota are not stupid,they have built something that sells,its what people want,their sales prove it,they have virtually no compitition for the LC in the current marketplace.
Not over complicated,it will do the job it is built for well,with no doubt, great reliability,and resale.

Why wouldnt it will sell in droves?
Price maybe its bloody expensive, probably one of its downfalls,but i bet the money will be found.

[scarry]

For those that want to watch,this guy isnt too bad,he actually used to have either a D3 or D4 from memory.

This is part one,of four,part two and three are on U tube.Part 4 isnt released yet.

It would be good to see something like this for the New Defender,but unfortunately,i cant see that ever happening.


4X4 vehicle development - LC300 tech engineer interview, Part 1/4 - Development - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmUK70rV7QQ&t=12s)

[Tombie]

Funny, I have some very good mates here that are Toyota fanboys.

They love them.

What they don’t say anymore is how reliable they are - they all lament their 80 series for their inherent strength and overall reliability.

They do not say that of the 100 or 200.

Instead I hear stories of electrical gremlins, cracking spot welds, squeaks, breaking plastics and mechanical issues.

They still love them to bits though.

[Slunnie]

Funny, I have some very good mates here that are Toyota fanboys.

They love them.

What they don’t say anymore is how reliable they are - they all lament their 80 series for their inherent strength and overall reliability.

They do not say that of the 100 or 200.

Instead I hear stories of electrical gremlins, cracking spot welds, squeaks, breaking plastics and mechanical issues.

They still love them to bits though.
Even the 80’s brought weaknesses. The best were the 60’s

[Tombie]

I believe the LC is sold like the Engel.

When asked what to buy - people just quote the old guard, and use the same ideals from yesteryear.

It’s like claiming only LRs leak oil.
None of mine do, and the current two haven’t ever done so. The D2 and earlier had a few but I fixed them correctly within days.

I’ve seen plenty of oil stains under Hilux and Prados!

But that’s not the narrative [emoji4]

[Tins]

I believe the LC is sold like the Engel.

When asked what to buy - people just quote the old guard, and use the same ideals from yesteryear.

It’s like claiming only LRs leak oil.
None of mine do, and the current two haven’t ever done so. The D2 and earlier had a few but I fixed them correctly within days.

I’ve seen plenty of oil stains under Hilux and Prados!

But that’s not the narrative [emoji4]

Seen a LOT of LC 200s trailing smoke screens like a WWII warship. But then, my last Ford could manage that on startup, depending on the angle on which it was parked[bigsad]

[Vern]

Seen a LOT of LC 200s trailing smoke screens like a WWII warship. But then, my last Ford could manage that on startup, depending on the angle on which it was parked[bigsad]I've seen a lot of 200's, especially with caravans on the back of flatbeds going through Coffs, its the most commonly towed holiday makers car i see.

[Tombie]

I've seen a lot of 200's, especially with caravans on the back of flatbeds going through Coffs, its the most commonly towed holiday makers car i see.

Same over here.

[Tins]

I've seen a lot of 200's, especially with caravans on the back of flatbeds going through Coffs, its the most commonly towed holiday makers car i see.

Partially mitigated, of course, by them being also the most popular combination out there. But they DO break, contrary to the urban myth propagated by their adherents and the MSM.

This didn't help:


https://youtu.be/xnWKz7Cthkk

Lots of cars could have survived what TG did to this HiLux, but TG didn't do it to them.

[trout1105]

I've seen a lot of 200's, especially with caravans on the back of flatbeds going through Coffs, its the most commonly towed holiday makers car i see.

ANY 4WD will break down at times and NONE of them are indistructable and end up on flat tops, The usual causes are accidents, poor maintainance, Inexperience, Abuse or even simply neglect.
Given that there are many more 200 series Toyotas dragging bricks around the country than any other make/model it is not supprising to see them on a flat top once in a while.

I have owned many makes/models of 4WD's and the Only one I have had to have put on a flat top has been my D2a[bigwhistle]
Out of all the different breeds of 4WD's I have owned/driven over the last few decades i would consider that the Toyota and to some extent the Nissan products to be miles ahead as far as reliability goes even though they are not the most comfortable or luxurious as some of the other brands.

Maybe IF JLR was to go back to its roots and started to build tough reliable workhorse 4WD's again instead of the high tech showponies they are producing today we may start to see them also on flat tops occasionally because of their massive increase in the market share for towing bricks .

[scarry]

Maybe IF JLR was to go back to its roots and started to build tough reliable workhorse 4WD's again instead of the high tech showponies they are producing today we may start to see them also on flat tops occasionally because of their massive increase in the market share for towing bricks .

The local tilt tray guy here told me without European vehicle brands they wouldn’t have a business……[bigwhistle]


As for oil leaks every single LR I ever had,bought new,went for warranty work to repair an oil leak,with the Puma the worse by a country mile,followed by the D2’s.
Even the D4 had leaking power steering hoses,leaking oil from the fuel cooler that was located in the valley of the engine,and on it goes.EAS air leaks,well we won’t go there.
Still waiting for one of the Tojos we have to leak oil,and some of them have done huge mileage.

If you look at actual numbers of vehicles sold compared with number of issues,the Jap and Korean vehicles will have the least by a country mile,that is a very well documented fact.

[Tombie]

Agree. It’s hard to quantify. There was a survey at one time that had usage of vehicles and showed the LR had a higher proportion by volume of offroad use than the others.

Compare this to any urban runabout. Any of these should be ok if the runs they do are long enough to get it warm and why Highway haulers generally are pretty good

Start really using any of them seriously, then see how you get on. Add bull dust and mud etc and any brand starts to show some wear.

Of the vehicles we see passing through here, very few do serious offroad - most are - as stated, just a tow engine.

[AK83]

.....

Maybe IF JLR was to go back to its roots and started to build tough reliable workhorse 4WD's again instead of the high tech showponies they are producing today we may start to see them also on flat tops occasionally because of their massive increase in the market share for towing bricks .

Sorry trout, but this doesn't make sense.
What you stated here is just the current situation for JLR(or LR throughout it's history).

Exactly how high tech were the series vehicles and original RRC back in the day?

it was the older series and RRC that created the myth that LRs all break down all the time or some rubbish like that.

Like you said, any 4WD will break down .. or more to the point wear out in some way over time. It's not simply a matter of maintenance. It has more to do with time/distance traveled.
The other element has got to do with what exactly has broken down, and why.

In opposition to your claim, none of my LR vehicles has ever had to be towed home(not just flatbedded).
I got my '79 RRC with 148K klms on it, and I parked it up for good with 660K klms on it.
When the centre diff blew itself to pieces tho, it didn't need to be towed to my mechanic(100klms away) .. it drove perfectly well up the sometimes steep climb to get there under it's own power.

Did it wear out .. of course it did. Just like every other vehicle will.

Never left me stranded.
Same with my current D1. Even tho I've mucked up a few service items, it never left me stranded in the 100K klms I've done in it, which is now currently at 430K+ klms.
I had a similar situation in my D1 as with my RRC .. so many years later. On a gentle drive one day, I got a bang out of the gearbox and rolled with no drive to a stop. TC had jumped out of high range. Once figured out, popped it back in and gingerly drive onwards, but .. now a monumental whine coming out of it. I knew it was a bearing, but which one and how precarious was it. No smoke, no loss of oil, just a spun or chewed bearing. As the D1 was my daily, and access to another vehicle at the time was not an option, I decided the best way to fix it was to get a changeover transfer case, preferably one with the sleeved layshaft mod. Drove D1 to a from work for a good two weeks 'hoping for the best' .. if it knackered itself .. didn't make a difference, my choice was to go with a changeover anyhow. So once the changeover arrangements were settled, I drove the D1 .. screaming transfer case and all, an nice easy 1100 klms to north of Sydney to be there first thing in the morning for the workshop to fit it for me same day.
After lunch it was good to go, and the drive home was the most serene drive I'd ever experienced.

Did it have issues? yes of course, just like any other brand of car will experience.
Did it get flat topped .. nope! .. it preferred to use use it's own power thanks! [biggrin]

[Vern]

Partially mitigated, of course, by them being also the most popular combination out there. But they DO break, contrary to the urban myth propagated by their adherents and the MSM.

This didn't help:


https://youtu.be/xnWKz7Cthkk

Lots of cars could have survived what TG did to this HiLux, but TG didn't do it to them.Surprisingly you don't see many more 200's around here than any other 4wd.

[Vern]

ANY 4WD will break down at times and NONE of them are indistructable and end up on flat tops, The usual causes are accidents, poor maintainance, Inexperience, Abuse or even simply neglect.
Given that there are many more 200 series Toyotas dragging bricks around the country than any other make/model it is not supprising to see them on a flat top once in a while.

I have owned many makes/models of 4WD's and the Only one I have had to have put on a flat top has been my D2a[bigwhistle]
Out of all the different breeds of 4WD's I have owned/driven over the last few decades i would consider that the Toyota and to some extent the Nissan products to be miles ahead as far as reliability goes even though they are not the most comfortable or luxurious as some of the other brands.

Maybe IF JLR was to go back to its roots and started to build tough reliable workhorse 4WD's again instead of the high tech showponies they are producing today we may start to see them also on flat tops occasionally because of their massive increase in the market share for towing bricks .Never seen a smashed 200, all grey nomad vehicles. Followed by Pajeros.

[Tins]

It's funny how these discussions go. People take sides to defend a collection of parts that make up a piece of transport equipment. I for one do not knock Toyotas or Nissans, although history has me leaning toward the latter. But history and logic show that they are NOT as perfect as their owners would have you believe. I also do not defend LRs. My D2 has been on a flat top more times than all of my other cars EVER combined. The first time was likely my fault, after that it was down to poor workmanship from certain individuals, which could possibly also be partly my fault for trying to save $$$. 'Er who used to be indoors wasn't a fan of the bills, although she loved the car. Refused point blank to travel in the D1, but loved the D2. As do I. I've owned it now for 12 years. It blew the HG just after I got it ( plastic dowels ) which was a warranty job, and never let me down since apart from the trans issues I mentioned.

However, I'll bet if I had a similar age Cruiser or Patrol I could go out and open the cargo area door anytime I liked. With the D2 I am never sure. Same with the rear windows. The SLS was disabled, in TestBook originally, but the SLS light will still come on randomly.

Thing is, those things endear me to the car. It's a constant source of little surprises. My son thinks I am nuts, but he has a Patrol with the engine they call the kettle, and a 3.2 Ranger which has been trouble free for 100,000 km. 100,000? He probably has some large surprises coming in that car if all the reports are true.

Still, I now own a nearly 30 YO old OKA, so who knows what little surprises IT has in store for me.... It certainly surprised me when it had a little lie down[bigsad]

Happy 4WD ownership to you all, no matter what you choose.

[scarry]

[QUOTE=Tombie;3127355]There was a survey at one time that had usage of vehicles and showed the LR had a higher proportion by volume of offroad use than the others.[/QUOTE

Definitely wouldn’t be the case now,with their current crop of vehicles,could have been 20 to 30 yrs ago.

[Tins]

[QUOTE=Tombie;3127355]There was a survey at one time that had usage of vehicles and showed the LR had a higher proportion by volume of offroad use than the others.[/QUOTE

Definitely wouldn’t be the case now,with their current crop of vehicles,could have been 20 to 30 yrs ago.

If that survey were not limited to "current crop" it may still be true. Lotsa Defenders and D1-2s still out there.

[trout1105]

There was a survey at one time that had usage of vehicles and showed the LR had a higher proportion by volume of offroad use than the others.

That would be back in the long gone days that I was still a young bloke when the choices for a 4WD were pretty much restricted to a Series landrover or an early model Toyota or a Datsun/Nissan G60.

Now days even the number Toyota's used in the mining and farming industry that spend the vast majority of their lives off road would far outnumber thenumbers of Landrovers in Australia on or offroad.

JLR missed the boat decades ago as far as having the lions share of vehicles off road these days as it is quite a rare sight indeed to see another Landrover out on the tracks/beach nowadays.

BTW I once owned a G60 and it was a bastard of a thing to drive if you were over 5'6" But it was a weapon offroad all the same, Its a shame the body was made from crap steel and it rusted itself to death sadly.

[Vern]

That would be back in the long gone days that I was still a young bloke when the choices for a 4WD were pretty much restricted to a Series landrover or an early model Toyota or a Datsun/Nissan G60.

Now days even the number Toyota's used in the mining and farming industry that spend the vast majority of their lives off road would far outnumber thenumbers of Landrovers in Australia on or offroad.

JLR missed the boat decades ago as far as having the lions share of vehicles off road these days as it is quite a rare sight indeed to see another Landrover out on the tracks/beach nowadays.

BTW I once owned a G60 and it was a bastard of a thing to drive if you were over 5'6" But it was a weapon offroad all the same, Its a shame the body was made from crap steel and it rusted itself to death sadly.Australia yes, but world wide? Love to know those figures. For example, 200 series vs y62 worldwide sales figures, surprisingly the patrol out sells it, but not in the land down under. All cars are **** in my opinion, may as well own the one with the most character [emoji1]

[ozscott]

I have been a member of several Facebook pages for New Defender owners just seeing how they go. I have to say I am far from impressed with the reliability so far. Far too many with serious problems even down to water ingress from rain causing so much grief the vehicle gets replaced. As much as I love the vehicle's ability when working (not the look...just looks far too soft and requires a large amount of expensive work to be aesthetically pleasing IMO) I would not take the risk with this new vehicle. Maybe, maybe after a few years but LR's continued product testing on live customers remains alarming. Personally I think there is a solid market for the Grenadier and I look forward to seeing how the production models of these go reliability wise.

Cheers

[scarry]

I have been a member of several Facebook pages for New Defender owners just seeing how they go. I have to say I am far from impressed with the reliability so far. Far too many with serious problems even down to water ingress from rain causing so much grief the vehicle gets replaced. As much as I love the vehicle's ability when working (not the look...just looks far too soft and requires a large amount of expensive work to be aesthetically pleasing IMO) I would not take the risk with this new vehicle. Maybe, maybe after a few years but LR's continued product testing on live customers remains alarming. Personally I think there is a solid market for the Grenadier and I look forward to seeing how the production models of these go reliability wise.

Cheers

A mate of mine test drove four of them,over about two months,two had problems,brand new.
In my opinion that is disgraceful.

He then replaced his 12 yr old Prado with another Prado,which is six months away.

I agree 100% with Vern,all cars are **** and a PITA,so just buy whatever you want,or like,or your budget will allow.[biggrin]

Just do it.

[Tins]

Thing is, those things endear me to the car. It's a constant source of little surprises.



Today's little surprise is that the starter has died of fright or something,,,,,[bigsad]

[Arapiles]

I've seen a lot of 200's, especially with caravans on the back of flatbeds going through Coffs, its the most commonly towed holiday makers car i see.


To be fair, these days the RACV don't tow or check vehicles that aren't near their closest depot - they just send a flatbed.

The last time I rented a Toyota - a Kluger - it threw multiple fault warnings when I started it up at the farm. I rang the RACV and they just said we'll send a truck, which duly turned up - no little yellow van came.

And the big issue that set off two faults on two screens and would've required a flat bed into town? There was a rear door open ....

[Tins]

I rang the RACV and they just said we'll send a truck, which duly turned up - no little yellow van came.Bloke in same would need a microprocessor instead of a brain to keep up with modern cars.

And the big issue that set off two faults on two screens and would've required a flat bed into town? There was a rear door open ....

Nice to know that the car is looking after you... We used to know a door was not latched when it rattled.

[3toes]

If it anything like trucks the mechanics part of vehicles are generally good on a modern vehicle. So why then has reliability of trucks gone down over the last 10 years? It is the electronics and associated kit that keeps breaking. Small things that are never cheap to fix and the part is always on back order

[scarry]

If it anything like trucks the mechanics part of vehicles are generally good on a modern vehicle. So why then has reliability of trucks gone down over the last 10 years? It is the electronics and associated kit that keeps breaking. Small things that are never cheap to fix and the part is always on back order

Many in the trucking industry say it’s the addition of all the pollution control gear on modern diesels that not only cause the failures but also generally reduces the Km between engine overhauls.

[ramblingboy42]

Today's little surprise is that the starter has died of fright or something,,,,,[bigsad]

is the FPR leaking onto the starter motor?.....main reason for starter motor failure....

[Tins]

is the FPR leaking onto the starter motor?.....main reason for starter motor failure....

Thanks, but no, it's not. Its a drive issue, the starter is turning but graunching.. Girding my loins to get under it. It might just be loose.

[ramblingboy42]

mmm ok , so much fun if you need to remove it.

I did remove mine twice.

if you have to , recommend top bolt first while all is still tight , then the others. put on face mask and safety glasses.....**** seems to come from everywhere.

[Tins]

mmm ok , so much fun if you need to remove it.

I did remove mine twice.

if you have to , recommend top bolt first while all is still tight , then the others. put on face mask and safety glasses.....**** seems to come from everywhere.

Yep, done one before. PITA. :bat:

[Parker]

The 300 chassis ladder frame seems very similar to my 2005 Defender.

Can someone tell me why the Defender had to be stopped? At the time it was said that every vehicle had to be monocoque to comply with crash requirements. But here we have the same old chassis, not even to speak of all the utes/dual cabs etc...

[Tins]

The 300 chassis ladder frame seems very similar to my 2005 Defender.

Can someone tell me why the Defender had to be stopped? At the time it was said that every vehicle had to be monocoque to comply with crash requirements. But here we have the same old chassis, not even to speak of all the utes/dual cabs etc...

It isn't that it HAD to be stopped. The Grenadier will have a ladder chassis. But LR hadn't done the R&D required, as they knew they were going to kill it. They were going full SUV, with a few platforms making multiple models, like pretty much all mainstream manufacturers. Old Defender required a totally seperate production line, which is uneconomic, at least to the bean counters. The parent company, Tata, make a number of body on frame vehicles, but I believe they were interested in chasing the 'luxury' SUV market when they bought JLR. In some eyes Old Defender tarnished that image.

[oka374]

Tins the shed is 3.6m to the eaves and approx 4.7m at the ridgeline. Hoist is at right angles to ridge and shed is just over 9m deep.
I'm short so it doesn't need to be that high for me to be able to stand under it ;-))

[Tins]

Tins the shed is 3.6m to the eaves and approx 4.7m at the ridgeline. Hoist is at right angles to ridge and shed is just over 9m deep.
I'm short so it doesn't need to be that high for me to be able to stand under it ;-))

I'm 6'1" ( well, I was in '72 ) and I can nearly stand under the bloody thing now with the 38s on!

Im gunna need to pop up to see you sometime next year to discuss that body if you still have it then.

OKAPete tells me it's a thing of beauty.

[AK83]

The 300 chassis ladder frame seems very similar to my 2005 Defender.

Can someone tell me why the Defender had to be stopped? .....

simple really! ... old defender just wasn't popular. To spend time and money on redeveloping it to current standards would have been economic suicide for a company as small as JLR, even tho it has the financial might of a large Indian company behind it.
New one was designed to be a a higher volume selling vehicle specifically targeted at a contemporary customer type.

Quick look at sales figures shows that JLR has succeeded with that plan.
Had they 'updated' the old Defer .. would have cost a small fortune, and sales numbers would still have been 1/5th of what the current model is seeing.

ps. don't look at Aussie car sales volumes. We are weird here in what we buy .. totally different market space compared to rest of the world.
In the US for example, the cruiser doesn't sell very well(there was talk that it may be discontinued there). Current defender outsells it by about 3-4 times over.
Over there, Toyota sells the Sequoia model.
Larger again than the Cruiser(think of Suburban sized vehicle .. and note that the Yanks seem to prefer bigger over better!) .. Sequoia is cheaper than Cruiser and outsells it by about 10x(with the caveat that the Sequoia is now a very dated design, and has declined in sales over the past 10 years to 1/5th of what it used to sell, but cruiser has seen some updates).

In Europe, they lump the two passenger cruisers(Prado and 100/200 series V8's together) and new Defender outsells them both.
By comparison to Aus, Toyota would be considered to be 'wildly unpopular' over there. We see it only from our point of view, not the other parts of the world.

It does seem strange that Toyota put in any effort to sell so few vehicles, because the only two markets where the cruiser seems to sell is Aus and Africa, with respect to the popularity of the vehicle.

So the 300 series was really maintained for Aus and Africa, using a basic vehicle design. No doubt that it costs more to actually manufacture this type of separate body chassis style.
The small volume of sales(worldwide) and cost of R&D into the 300 series would be why the sales price had risen so much too.

[loanrangie]

Great video but the 300 - yawn. No innovation, a tiny boot and i can see plenty of these on tilt trays as no one will be able to touch anything on these motors.
Surprised that they didn't move to IRS, design seems to be part Y62 and part Ssang Yong - fugly.

[scarry]

Great video but the 300 - yawn. No innovation, a tiny boot and i can see plenty of these on tilt trays as no one will be able to touch anything on these motors.
Surprised that they didn't move to IRS, design seems to be part Y62 and part Ssang Yong - fugly.


Why go to IRS,more maintenance,less wheel travel,PITA for towing,for very little gain?

Innovation?

Most so called innovations are just redeveloped and modified copies of whatever,that have been around for many decades.

[scarry]

It does seem strange that Toyota put in any effort to sell so few vehicles, because the only two markets where the cruiser seems to sell is Aus and Africa, with respect to the popularity of the vehicle.

So the 300 series was really maintained for Aus and Africa, using a basic vehicle design. No doubt that it costs more to actually manufacture this type of separate body chassis style.
The small volume of sales(worldwide) and cost of R&D into the 300 series would be why the sales price had risen so much too.

The LC 200/300 is very popular in other countries,as well as Australia,which is second for volume on the list behind the Emerates.

Total worldwide sales are around 420000 units annually for 200 only,which no doubt the 300 will eclipse easily.That is pre Covid figures.

To put that into perspective,LR produce,or they used to before Covid,around 650000 vehicles,worldwide total,annually.

So worldwide sales of the New Defender have a very long way to go to match the LC300,it will never happen.

I can’t see LR continuing with some of their small volume vehicles such as D5 that sells around a very low volume of around 40000 a year pre Covid,and not increasing.

Looking at Aus,European vehicles have never sold very well,LR sales are around 6000 a year pre Covid.Just LC 200 sales for 2019 exceeded approximately 20000.Then there is the 70 series that sells around 12000 a year.

The largest European seller in Aus is Mercedes,but sales are no where near the Jap or Korean brands,with Toyota total sales all variants absolutely smashing everyone else,by a country mile.

In the US,they like their own large utes,wagons,etc.

The only real competition the 300 will have is the y62,LR are not even in the race,world wide,or in Aus.

[Vern]

Why go to IRS,more maintenance,less wheel travel,PITA for towing,for very little gain?


More maintenance yes, but the rest i beg to differ. Read some reviews from folks that have actually jumped from toyota to nissan, most wished they had done it a long time ago.

[scarry]

More maintenance yes, but the rest i beg to differ. Read some reviews from folks that have actually jumped from toyota to nissan, most wished they had done it a long time ago.

And there are many that have jumped the other way for whatever reason.

But anyway,let them jump whatever way they want[biggrin]

Edit,with the huge price difference,I can’t work out why more haven’t moved to the Patrol.

[Vern]

And there are many that have jumped the other way for whatever reason.

But anyway,let them jump whatever way they want[biggrin]

Edit,with the huge price difference,I can’t work out why more haven’t moved to the Patrol.They have and are moving to the patrol, they just can't get them due to demand.

I'm on a few patrol pages, and a 200/patrol page, and the number point towards the move to the patrol by a loooong way.

Australia is the only country the 200 out sells it, the UAE the 62 is car of choice, they love that v8[emoji846].

I'd still prefer the defender[emoji846]
Just can't convince wifey to buy a Land Rover product[emoji848][emoji1]

[Arapiles]

In the US for example, the cruiser doesn't sell very well(there was talk that it may be discontinued there). Current defender outsells it by about 3-4 times over.
Over there, Toyota sells the Sequoia model.
Larger again than the Cruiser(think of Suburban sized vehicle .. and note that the Yanks seem to prefer bigger over better!) .. Sequoia is cheaper than Cruiser and outsells it by about 10x(with the caveat that the Sequoia is now a very dated design, and has declined in sales over the past 10 years to 1/5th of what it used to sell, but cruiser has seen some updates).
.

I saw a couple of US car magazine reviews of the Land Cruiser 200 series - they completely bagged it: expensive, bad handling, cramped, poor economy. Makes sense - the big US utes, and their station wagon variations, are much better packages for towing and carting people around.

There is one blogger in the USA who has an LC200, but he ripped out its suspension and installed the independent suspension set-up from the Tundra, which he said made it ride much better:

Inside My Custom Toyota Land Cruiser Build - Outside Online (https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-gear/cars-trucks/2020-toyota-land-cruiser-suv-custom-modification/)

He seems to have a relationship with ARB in the USA, hence the ARB bullbars and other gear.

[AK83]

I'd be suspicious of some sales info.
For example, landcruiser sales in Europe are lumped as both Prado and the 'v8' series(100/200s) .. so to say xxx number of sales of the Landcruiser is a bit ambiguous..
Same for the LC200 figures.
In the GCC(that I know of), LC sales include both the 100/200 series AND the 70 series wagons and utes.
That is, GCC(mid east) sales volumes of LCs will include all LC types. I assume LC300 will be similarly lumped into the same mix, but the engine changed(ie. no v8) may affect this.

Also in the GCC, over 50% of the market share for the entire region is dominated by Saudi Arabia .. who we know is a massive oil producing nation.
So it would be reasonable to assume(can't find exact figures) that oil companies account for a huge portion of LC ute sales.

So the Middle East sales figures are confusion to say the least.

I don't want to turn the discussion into a non LC300 one, but a small curiosity .. in Qatar, the Defender is now the 6th most popular vehicle!
While the LC(no definition of which model/models) is still number 1, it's advantage dropped a long way, and Patrol is now on par for sales volumes.

I would consider Qatar a more reasonable guide to determine private car sales figures, as opposed to heavily commercial based Saudi centric volumes.

Overall tho the trend is clear, LC sales figures around the world have taken a deep dive .. whether due to model age, or buyers need for more advanced tech features
(eg. seems that Apple Car Play is one of the most important aspects of a cars success! [bighmmm])
And as the LC 300 is more specifically aimed at the private sector, I thought this was the essence of the topic.

Based on dwindling sales .. ie. expect more of the same(unlike Tesla minded business projections) .. the LC300 really had to avoid a costly development if Toyota are to recoup good returns from it. Makes no sense to waste $s on a IRS in development, and more than likely require a lot more individual parts for that setup too .. makes a more costly build per unit, which always goes to the consumer .. making it less value for money .. etc.

[PhilipA]

Yeah , terrible cars.
That is why they are worthless.
(4) Marketplace - 2021 Toyota Landcruiser 200 | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1331258273996504/'ref=browse_tab&referral_code=marketplace_top_picks&referral_story_type=top_picks)
(4) Marketplace - 2006 Toyota Landcruiser | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/321923243082742/'ref=search&referral_code=marketplace_search&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A29165cf5-abc5-457e-b0cf-2b01e2461d9d)

Regards PhilipA

[Vern]

Yeah , terrible cars.
That is why they are worthless.
(4) Marketplace - 2021 Toyota Landcruiser 200 | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1331258273996504/'ref=browse_tab&referral_code=marketplace_top_picks&referral_story_type=top_picks)
(4) Marketplace - 2006 Toyota Landcruiser | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/321923243082742/'ref=search&referral_code=marketplace_search&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A29165cf5-abc5-457e-b0cf-2b01e2461d9d)

Regards PhilipAI can't see the links, but i am guessing they are adds for 200 series at rediculous prices? Just shows people are stupid if they pay that. Saw an add for a patrol for $119k the other day, and some fool will pay that, i paid $65k 3 years ago. Supply, demand, and stupidity.
As for the terrible cars, chat to a few engine shops[emoji6]

[trout1105]

I can't see the links, but i am guessing they are adds for 200 series at rediculous prices? Just shows people are stupid if they pay that. Saw an add for a patrol for $119k the other day, and some fool will pay that, i paid $65k 3 years ago. Supply, demand, and stupidity.
As for the terrible cars, chat to a few engine shops[emoji6]

What these sort of add's are showing is the Toyota/Nissan 4WD's have a good resale value and besides the old defender can that also be said for all the other Landrover 4WD modles out there?

The chip shortage has caused a lot of the overpriced sales of used Toyota/Nissan 4WD's of late because some people are too impatiant to wait for a new car to be delivered however I can't see that this phenomenon has forced an upward trend for secondhand disco's RR's.

[AK83]

agreed on the topic of used sales 'prices'.

Most of which are 'dreamers' as they say in the movies.
Wasn't that long ago when 'used' toilet paper prices skyrocketed to stupid levels .. because folks seem to think there was a quick way to make a buck ... all came crashing down rather quickly and they were caught out too.

So what some people ask for their pride and joy .. is not necessarily it's 'value'.
It's more indicative that folks have moved on from being dunny roll speculators to the more advanced position of auto trader speculators.


BTW: I regularly look at D2 prices .. have done so for the past 5-6 years. I've noticed a general upward trend for them. TD5s especially. V8's only a little less. Can't help with other stuff like RRs and Defers .. don't really look.
So yep .. can be said of some other LR stuff too.

[scarry]

Based on dwindling sales .. ie. expect more of the same(unlike Tesla minded business projections) .. the LC300 really had to avoid a costly development if Toyota are to recoup good returns from it. Makes no sense to waste $s on a IRS in development, and more than likely require a lot more individual parts for that setup too .. makes a more costly build per unit, which always goes to the consumer .. making it less value for money .. etc.

Which is exactly what LR seem to do every so often when there is a model change,for a very low volume seller,often selling way less than 100000 a year.As per my example of D5.
We will have to wait and see if new Defender is also a relatively low volume seller.
With Covid,etc,any current figures are probably not a real example of exactly what is happening.
I did read somewhere that 17000 were sold one quarter,worldwide,but the figure probably means nothing in this economic climate.

The figures I quoted were exactly as said,LC200 sales.

But yes they do get mixed up in many figures,that is 70,what we call Prado,and 200/300,in different countries.

We spent over a month in East Africa two years ago,and the 70 series was definitely the vehicle of choice,I can’t remember ever seeing a 200.
Actually,for many,in the outback towns,the TDI Defender was highly sort after due to its simplicity.

Many large vehicles are having drops in sales,that is a given the way things are going in the vehicle industry.
Nothing new there.

I think in Aus with the disappearance of Ford and Holden products this has no doubt increased the sales of large 4x4 wagons,no matter what the brand,and also European vehicles such as Mercedes,BMW,etc.

[scarry]

I'd still prefer the defender[emoji846]
Just can't convince wifey to buy a Land Rover product[emoji848][emoji1]

Now why would that be?[bighmmm][biggrin]

They are a lot smaller than a Y62,particularly in the load area.
But probably nicer and easier.to park at the shops

[Arapiles]

Yeah , terrible cars.
That is why they are worthless.
(4) Marketplace - 2021 Toyota Landcruiser 200 | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1331258273996504/'ref=browse_tab&referral_code=marketplace_top_picks&referral_story_type=top_picks)
(4) Marketplace - 2006 Toyota Landcruiser | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/321923243082742/'ref=search&referral_code=marketplace_search&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A29165cf5-abc5-457e-b0cf-2b01e2461d9d)

Regards PhilipA


No, it just illustrates the points being made above by a couple of the posters - Australians may like Land Cruisers but pretty much no-one else does, not even the Japanese: in the last 30 years of living in and visiting Japan I can only recall seeing one Land Cruiser in Tokyo. In case you're saying to yourself, "oh, because it's too big for those narrow Japanese streets" - nope, quite apart from there being heaps of other big SUVs like the BMW X5 and G Wagens, I used to see people driving U400 Unimogs around - and the main roads are typically wider than here anyway. I did see modified LC 70s for sale, but they were being used off-road and there weren't that many about.

[PhilipA]

Look Landcruisers are suited to markets where their attributes are appreciated like the Middle East and Australia which I think account for 80% or more of sales . In the first drive of the 300 You tube one of the engineers also noted Russia as a big market.
These are markets where 4WD is really needed . There is an interview with 2 of the development engineers on You Tube.
I gathered that in Oz they see the market as Rural buyers such as Station owners who and I approximately quote "have to go to the shops 300Km away on Corrugated dirt roads once a week"
In addition their user feedback included caravanners.
In Saudi they are used among others by the Bedouin who live transient lives in the desert travelling from the empty quarter with their flocks to Maan in Jordan every year. I have met them and seen them.
In the past after about 5 years in Saudi they were bought by Yemini smugglers to run from the Riyadh souks to Yemen with illegal goods, and after another 5 years they migrate to Ethiopia to be used for war or carrying goods.
They may eventually end up in Egypt or further south in Africa. There are complete villages in Egypt who completely dismantle and rebuild FJ series .

I don't know whether the Yemeni smuggling trade still exists but I would bet that it does, Civil war or no civil war.
This below is one of several with Australian Development engineers.
Strangely I have not seen any interviews with Defender Australian Engineers. Maybe LR would have avoided past errors like self destructing front suspension bushes if they had done some testing here.

4X4 vehicle development - LC300 tech engineer interview, Part 4/4 - accessories and specs - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjS_qClUwuM&ab_channel=L2SFBC-RobertPepper-autojourno)

[loanrangie]

The only buyers of 200's here are grey nomads, caravaners the occasional tourer.
The 300 looks useless as a tourer die to its small boot, obviously trying to make it more car like.
I'd buy a Y62 before any LC.

[scarry]

Australians may like Land Cruisers but pretty much no-one else does.

So as an example out of the 420000 or so 200’s which were being built each year,about 20000 went to Aus,and the other 400000 went,where?
Maybe they dumped them all because no one else likes them.[biggrin]
In fact 5 yrs ago and earlier they were making over 600000 of them a year,and less were going to Aus.

Sure we are a huge market for them,but no where near the only market.

But the numbers will drop off due to changes all over the world with vehicles getting smaller,more efficient,etc.

[chuck]

[QUOTE=loanrangie;3127835]The only buyers of 200's here are grey nomads, caravaners the occasional tourer.

Plenty of young people driving 200's up my way.

Not many caravans attached to them, lots of boats

On long weekends you see processions of them on the highway and the majority are young.

Plenty of $130k cruisers towing $100k+ boats or vans.

Up in this shire they are the dominant large 4 wheel drive although we are seeing more Patrols

[Arapiles]

So as an example out of the 420000 or so 200’s which were being built each year,about 20000 went to Aus,and the other 400000 went,where?
Maybe they dumped them all because no one else likes them.[biggrin]
In fact 5 yrs ago and earlier they were making over 600000 of them a year,and less were going to Aus.

Sure we are a huge market for them,but no where near the only market.


Well, according to this - see "Sales by region in 2018" further down the page - we're the third biggest market globally with 46,000 Land Cruisers being sold, which includes all variants and not just the LC200. NB, total sales of all variants are stated to be 400,000, not sales of the LC200.

Cumulative Global Sales of the Toyota Land Cruiser Series Surpass 10 Million Units | Toyota | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website (https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/toyota/29534066.html)

You'll also note the relatively tiny sales in North America.

[Arapiles]

[QUOTE=loanrangie;3127835] Plenty of $130k cruisers towing $100k+ boats or vans.

I was at Yanakie and Wilson's Prom last week and I'd guesstimate most of the 4WD and caravan combos in the caravan park would've been been $150k or more: I was at Port Welshpool a couple of years ago and the 4WD and boat combos would've been about the same, and there were dozens of them parked near the slipway.

I'm obviously in the wrong industry, because I'm working out at the moment if I can afford a second-hand kayak.

And I'm continually surprised that people spend $90k on an LC200 and then chop it up to make a twin cab ute.

[trout1105]

And I'm continually surprised that people spend $90k on an LC200 and then chop it up to make a twin cab ute.

This doesn't surprise me at all.
The stretch conversion usually comes with a GVM upgrade which at the end of the day gives you a twincab ute with a full sized tray that you can load up to the hilt and still tow 3.5t with.
A Perfect 4WD for towing and touring and as there is nothing "stock" on the market that can match it the stretch conversion makes perfect sense[thumbsupbig]

[AK83]

Well, according to this - see "Sales by region in 2018" further down the page - we're the third biggest market globally with 46,000 Land Cruisers being sold, which includes all variants and not just the LC200. NB, total sales of all variants are stated to be 400,000, not sales of the LC200.

You'll also note the relatively tiny sales in North America.

This is what I thought would be the situation.

I find it very unlikely that 400K LC200's ... a fairly expensive vehicle, would be selling at 1/4 the rate of the small cheap Corolla, which worldwide sales ended up at 1.6m units.

[oka374]

Tins the body will probably still be available, the new body has been stalled for a few months with covid and other considerations so as we intend to travel this year it will be in the latter half before anything gets done ;-))

[scarry]

Well, according to this - see "Sales by region in 2018" further down the page - we're the third biggest market globally with 46,000 Land Cruisers being sold, which includes all variants and not just the LC200. NB, total sales of all variants are stated to be 400,000, not sales of the LC200.

Cumulative Global Sales of the Toyota Land Cruiser Series Surpass 10 Million Units | Toyota | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website (https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/toyota/29534066.html)

You'll also note the relatively tiny sales in North America.

Ok by that data,which is out of data and close to 4 yrs old,I stand to be corrected,away ATM,I have some other data at home.

Did you notice sales in Africa were lower than North America,which is interesting?

But any data for last couple of years is probably irrelevant due to Covid,etc,etc.

FWIW,last year LR’s sales plummeted to around 420000 from around 650000 vehicles a couple of years before and a record for the manufacturer,which is not good,but Covid,etc etc,would have been a major issue no doubt.
Evoke being the biggest seller,followed very closely by New Deefer.

[Discodicky]

The local tilt tray guy here told me without European vehicle brands they wouldn’t have a business……[bigwhistle]


As for oil leaks every single LR I ever had,bought new,went for warranty work to repair an oil leak,with the Puma the worse by a country mile,followed by the D2’s.
Even the D4 had leaking power steering hoses,leaking oil from the fuel cooler that was located in the valley of the engine,and on it goes.EAS air leaks,well we won’t go there.
Still waiting for one of the Tojos we have to leak oil,and some of them have done huge mileage.

If you look at actual numbers of vehicles sold compared with number of issues,the Jap and Korean vehicles will have the least by a country mile,that is a very well documented fact.

Fuel cooler in the valley and cooled by oil??
My fuel cooler is in front and below with the 3.0 engine and is air cooled.
Do you mean engine oil cooler/oil filter assy where the "O" rings can leak when they go rock hard due to oil temp/ O ring age breakdown.

[scarry]

Fuel cooler in the valley and cooled by oil??
My fuel cooler is in front and below with the 3.0 engine and is air cooled.
Do you mean engine oil cooler/oil filter assy where the "O" rings can leak when they go rock hard due to oil temp/ O ring age breakdown.

Yes,someone is onto it [biggrin]

Bugga of a job,and once the job is in progress there are lots of other little things that needed replacing as well.

[Tombie]

Yeah , terrible cars.
That is why they are worthless.
(4) Marketplace - 2021 Toyota Landcruiser 200 | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1331258273996504/'ref=browse_tab&referral_code=marketplace_top_picks&referral_story_type=top_picks)
(4) Marketplace - 2006 Toyota Landcruiser | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/321923243082742/'ref=search&referral_code=marketplace_search&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A29165cf5-abc5-457e-b0cf-2b01e2461d9d)

Regards PhilipA

My old Calais Director, my XY P3 and a few others were pretty crap purchases at the time.

Held their value too! Doesn’t make them a really good car (none of them were)



There’s even people out there that will pay for defect stamps, coins etc…. So the human factor doesn’t show how good something really is. [emoji41]

[Tins]

My old Calais Director, my XY P3 and a few others were pretty crap purchases at the time.

Held their value too! Doesn’t make them a really good car (none of them were)



There’s even people out there that will pay for defect stamps, coins etc…. So the human factor doesn’t show how good something really is. [emoji41]

Hmm.. People will pay $US80 for a candle that apparently smells of Gwyneth Paltrow's ,err, lady parts, so anything is possible. Not sure if it comes with a Certificate of Authenticity though. Could be her maid's.

[scarry]

And continuing on,

I can’t believe what some pay for number plates with certain letters and numbers on them.[bighmmm][biggrin]

[Gav 110]

And continuing on,

I can’t believe what some pay for number plates with certain letters and numbers on them.[bighmmm][biggrin]

And then some can’t get what they want exactly, so they throw a number or two in place of letters and still pay the premium and the plates don’t even make sense 🤣🤣

[Tins]

And then some can’t get what they want exactly, so they throw a number or two in place of letters and still pay the premium and the plates don’t even make sense 🤣🤣

N4RCI55I5T

[Gav 110]

N4RCI55I5T

Where’s that “unlike” tab when you need it🤣🤣

[trout1105]

There’s even people out there that will pay for defect stamps, coins etc…. So the human factor doesn’t show how good something really is. [emoji41]

The maket for error and rare coins is massive and quite lucrative especially in the US, It isn't a "one off thing" like the recent surge in secondhand 4WD's.

[Tombie]

The maket for error and rare coins is massive and quite lucrative especially in the US, It isn't a "one off thing" like the recent surge in secondhand 4WD's.

Again - just demonstrates fools and their money is easily parted.
Even more amusing is another fool will pay even more later on.

[Gav 110]

Again - just demonstrates fools and their money is easily parted.
Even more amusing is another fool will pay even more later on.

Sounds like a few of us with Land Rovers[emoji848][emoji848]🤣🤣

[scarry]

Again - just demonstrates fools and their money is easily parted.
Even more amusing is another fool will pay even more later on.

In one way it’s great there are these types around as it’s good for the economy in one way or another.

Money in the bank isn’t worth having,well it is a necessity to have some in there,but any excess is better moved somewhere else due to the dismal interest rates ATM.

Topic,what was the topic of this thread?.[bigsad][biggrin]

[Tins]

Sounds like a few of us with Land Rovers[emoji848][emoji848]🤣🤣

Certainly been my experience.

[Tombie]

Sounds like a few of us with Land Rovers[emoji848][emoji848][emoji1787][emoji1787]

True,

Although my Landies are the cheapest vehicles I’ve had over the years. [emoji23]

Life’s too short to have boring cars

[ozscott]

True,

Although my Landies are the cheapest vehicles I’ve had over the years. [emoji23]

Life’s too short to have boring carsI agree Mike. I reckon there can be some good compromise vehicles too out there. But my D2 (and D1) will have a spot at my place for a long time to come (well maybe the D1 will get sold off - would like to resto it but the time isn't there). Cheers