Power prices, gas prices- ouch or Solar perhaps?

[NavyDiver]

I have solar. No brainer at work. it paid for itself very very quickly. At home its not quite as quick to get my money back



An article on is Solar worth it in this link (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-04/qld-solar-panel-costs-prices-energy-crisis/101124340?utm_campaign=abc_news_web&utm_content=link&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web) may be of interest to some

Personally I think if you can use the power its a no brainer. If trying to make money selling it to the grid I think its not at all a good idea now.

Wholesale gas up 800% is a bit more than WOW. Im 95% electric based so gas is not a bother for me except it also powers the grid to some degree.

[RANDLOVER]

I have solar. No brainer at work. it paid for itself very very quickly. At home its not quite as quick to get my money back



An article on is Solar worth it in this link (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-04/qld-solar-panel-costs-prices-energy-crisis/101124340?utm_campaign=abc_news_web&utm_content=link&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web) may be of interest to some

Personally I think if you can use the power its a no brainer...........

I think you mean use the power during the day due to the low feed in tariffs, which is also why your system at work paid for itself so quickly.

[prelude]

I guess that it's a question of how much do you use and at what time of the day. For me, the most compelling reason for solar and also the best "fit" for usage is when you run an AC. When there is the most sun (and thus heat) you generate a lot of power whilst also using a lot. Other than that, in most parts of the world and I should think oz is no exception there is an abundance of power during the day due to solar and a shortage during the night because of all those duracell gokarts (ie tesla's) charging. This imbalance needs to be offset by the grid using mostly fossil fueled power generation and is pricey to do (since your standard large power plant is fairly slow to ramp up and down) and is actually hiking up electricity prices!

So, over here solar is starting to become limited by the grid owners to feed in during certain hours or feeding in at all. (a local school has a roof full of solar but they are not allowed to hook it up since they did not ask for permission beforehand and there is already too much solar in that area for example) The ROI time for solar is around 8-10 years around here and the current stimulation package and pricing rules are going to be changed by 2030 so we have just passed the point where you can be guaranteed your money back. Might be a good thing to see what the government is planning to do in the future regarding solar before you commit.

As a side not, I reckon some sort of tax is bound to follow on both EV's and solar production etc since governments do not like losing tax income...

Cheers,
-P

[NavyDiver]

Air conditioning in summer and in winter uses most of my Solar at work. The old gas heating ducting now has most of my CAT5/CAT6 cabling in it.

The studies suggesting gas inside is as bad or worse for kids and adults with Asthma with gas (methane) and particle polution from wood fires is another issue.

The interesting bit of a news yarn I read this morning matched my experience both 4 years ago and 18 years ago at work. A person moving heating, hot water and cooking to electricity found many tradies and retailers arguing gas was better[bigwhistle]My plumber, builder and others all said gas gas gas.

The UK on fires "Domestic wood burning has become the single biggest source of small particle air pollution in the UK, producing three times more than road traffic, government data shows.Just 8% of the population cause this pollution by burning wood indoors, according to a separate government-commissioned report. It found almost half of those burning indoors were affluent and many chose a fire for aesthetic reasons, rather than heat"

I think as much about cost savings myself. I do have one person with asthma at home. That has been almost a non issue since we changed during a renovation. Not science just an observation of course.

The best bit is the prices and choices for solar systems is much better and much cheaper. Noting a big rush likely may see inhalation and supply issues.

[Saitch]

It's wasn't me! You can't prove a thing!

179090

[V8Ian]

It's wasn't me! You can't prove a thing!

179090
Garden mulch? [bigwhistle]

[Saitch]

Garden mulch? [bigwhistle]

But, of course!

[NavyDiver]

It's wasn't me! You can't prove a thing!

179090

No fear Satich. My bush walking still needs sticks for cooking mate[biggrin]

[prelude]

Don't get me wrong, I have been using electric for over 20 years now. First I switched to electric underfloor heating, no more maintenance and 100% efficient. Then I moved to electric hot water (on demand so no boilers with losses) and the only thing I use gas for is the one thing it is good at: for cooking :) I have not found a proper electric way for proper stir fry.

Other than that, I do tend to light a fire outdoors yes, as often as I can. The funny thing is, I suspect that global warming has also been due to the fact that we only worked on one part of the pollution problem. There used to be a thing called global dimming, ie the particulate pollution actually dimmed the sunlight hitting the earth, slowing down heating and such. The fact that fires pollute more than traffic in the UK is not because there are more fires being lit but I suspect it's because cars and trucks have gotten that much cleaner.

-P

[Homestar]

I guess that it's a question of how much do you use and at what time of the day. For me, the most compelling reason for solar and also the best "fit" for usage is when you run an AC. When there is the most sun (and thus heat) you generate a lot of power whilst also using a lot. Other than that, in most parts of the world and I should think oz is no exception there is an abundance of power during the day due to solar and a shortage during the night because of all those duracell gokarts (ie tesla's) charging. This imbalance needs to be offset by the grid using mostly fossil fueled power generation and is pricey to do (since your standard large power plant is fairly slow to ramp up and down) and is actually hiking up electricity prices!

So, over here solar is starting to become limited by the grid owners to feed in during certain hours or feeding in at all. (a local school has a roof full of solar but they are not allowed to hook it up since they did not ask for permission beforehand and there is already too much solar in that area for example) The ROI time for solar is around 8-10 years around here and the current stimulation package and pricing rules are going to be changed by 2030 so we have just passed the point where you can be guaranteed your money back. Might be a good thing to see what the government is planning to do in the future regarding solar before you commit.

As a side not, I reckon some sort of tax is bound to follow on both EV's and solar production etc since governments do not like losing tax income...

Cheers,
-P

The solar at work paid for itself inside 2 years. Still have a $2K per month bill (the Boss let’s us know at every chance [emoji16]). That’s a 40KW system that takes up about a 1/4 of the roof. Boss is thinking of bunging on another 40KW and we might be close to covering what we use. The Supply Authorities have no issues with big solar installations in industrial areas as the overall consumption is still way more than all the solar put together in our area - by an order of magnitude. In fact there probably isn’t enough roof space everywhere to make that happen, even if there was a desire for all businesses to do it.

[Vern]

The solar at work paid for itself inside 2 years. Still have a $2K per month bill (the Boss let’s us know at every chance [emoji16]). That’s a 40KW system that takes up about a 1/4 of the roof. Boss is thinking of bunging on another 40KW and we might be close to covering what we use. The Supply Authorities have no issues with big solar installations in industrial areas as the overall consumption is still way more than all the solar put together in our area - by an order of magnitude. In fact there probably isn’t enough roof space everywhere to make that happen, even if there was a desire for all businesses to do it.It makes perfect sense to fit as big as you physically can, or afford, system on the roof of a business that's operating hours are during sunlight hours.
My 8.51kw system on my house will pay itself off within a year, might just fit another 6.6kw on the carport when built, fit a battery (once we develop our hv ac battery), induction cooking, hotwater heating during the day via a Catch Green power diverter, and my running costs will be near non existent.

[Saitch]

It makes perfect sense to fit as big as you physically can, or afford, system on the roof of a business that's operating hours are during sunlight hours.
My 8.51kw system on my house will pay itself off within a year, might just fit another 6.6kw on the carport when built, fit a battery (once we develop our hv ac battery), induction cooking, hotwater heating during the day via a Catch Green power diverter, and my running costs will be near non existent.

We've had a 13.2kw system on the house for just on 12 months. It's made an appreciable difference to our power load.
I have the HWS on between 10:00 and 13:00, without an issue so far and use the washing machine and dishwasher during daylight hours. I tested the A/C over summer and it uses around 6kw-7kw, so still within tolerances, with 5kw to play with.
The boiling of a jug is a big user.

[NavyDiver]

We've had a 13.2kw system on the house for just on 12 months. It's made an appreciable difference to our power load.
I have the HWS on between 10:00 and 13:00, without an issue so far and use the washing machine and dishwasher during daylight hours. I tested the A/C over summer and it uses around 6kw-7kw, so still within tolerances, with 5kw to play with.
The boiling of a jug is a big user.

Kettle, HWS, Laser printers at start up. Interestingly I find Split system A.C. is fine load wise IF its left running at a reasonable setting and not trying to shift room temps a long way.

Getting advice on upgrading at work and seeing if I can shift those panels to home when my favorite sparky has time[thumbsupbig]

[Vern]

Kettle, HWS, Laser printers at start up. Interestingly I find Split system A.C. is fine load wise IF its left running at a reasonable setting and not trying to shift room temps a long way.

Getting advice on upgrading at work and seeing if I can shift those panels to home when my favorite sparky has time[thumbsupbig]It might not be financially worth moving those panels onto your home considering install costs. We quote a bit of this, and its not really worth it when you take STC'S off the new system cost. Also depending on what panels they are, spare capacity on inverter etc....

[NavyDiver]

It might not be financially worth moving those panels onto your home considering install costs. We quote a bit of this, and its not really worth it when you take STC'S off the new system cost. Also depending on what panels they are, spare capacity on inverter etc....

Probably right thanks. Recycling works a bit for me. Both home and work is almost exactly the same systems about 4 years old so have lots of life left in them. Happy to do a lot of the work myself so suspect it will be also mates rates for the home effort. Sparky to unplug and do the roof install once I put them all up there[thumbsupbig]

[ramblingboy42]

the world was warned and you called these people "greenies" with a sneer on your face.

now you are all whingeing and complaining , expecting someone else to be your saviour.....one bloke supposedly tried that and failed.

[Fourgearsticks]

Been on stand alone solar and batteries for 7 years now, no problems. House is very well insulated, no aircon needed with summer high 30's temps. The system would run an AC if it was needed but with high 30's outside the inside temps are low 20's. Gas for cooking, one larger bottle lasts 18 months. Wood (off the place) for heat and hot water in the winter and solar hot water for summer. The charging goes to heatsink after 10 in the summer time, need a plug in car to utilise the excess power.

[Vern]

Probably right thanks. Recycling works a bit for me. Both home and work is almost exactly the same systems about 4 years old so have lots of life left in them. Happy to do a lot of the work myself so suspect it will be also mates rates for the home effort. Sparky to unplug and do the roof install once I put them all up there[thumbsupbig]4 years young, may as well reuse them.
We have been removing a lot of systems off roofs lately due to a hail storm we had 8 months ago, 1 smashed panel, and its more financially viable to upgrade the whole systems due to STC'S. (Panels had to come off anyway for roof repairs).
We have one job to do soon where we have to remove 600 panels because 9 were smashed, and replace everything with new, including the inverters. Even though all the panels were fine under thermal imaging photos.
Government rebates make it not worth refitting the existing gear, it all goes to the tip.

[loanrangie]

4 years young, may as well reuse them.
We have been removing a lot of systems off roofs lately due to a hail storm we had 8 months ago, 1 smashed panel, and its more financially viable to upgrade the whole systems due to STC'S. (Panels had to come off anyway for roof repairs).
We have one job to do soon where we have to remove 600 panels because 9 were smashed, and replace everything with new, including the inverters. Even though all the panels were fine under thermal imaging photos.
Government rebates make it not worth refitting the existing gear, it all goes to the tip.

What a waste, surely you have a good stash of spares Damien ?

[Vern]

What a waste, surely you have a good stash of spares Damien ?Yeah we have heaps of panels, hundreds of inverters, all of no use due to CEC guidelines. We give away as much as we can to mainly hippy communes for their small offgrid homes, but even they have surplus to their needs.
There is only so much that is recyclable, at this point in time, panels are not cost effective to do.

[loanrangie]

Yeah we have heaps of panels, hundreds of inverters, all of no use due to CEC guidelines. We give away as much as we can to mainly hippy communes for their small offgrid homes, but even they have surplus to their needs.
There is only so much that is recyclable, at this point in time, panels are not cost effective to do.So much for going green hey.

[350RRC]

During one 5 minute trading block last night Qld hit $9.50 / kWh in the electricity market.

179202

[superquag]

Energy Crisis.... - Nope, don't get me started !

Here's an explanation, then the lies.

Google this first :- The controversy of wood pellets as a green energy source and read a few of them, particularly the BBC links, then go to the WEF site to see the B/S, neatly presented and believable...

UK renewables generate more electricity than fossil fuels for first time | World Economic Forum (https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/10/uk-renewables-generate-electricity-fossil-fuels/)

- This only works because the pine pellet burning is classed at "renewables". But said trees are planted using fossil fuels, maintained with FF, harvested with FFuels, transported at all stages by F Fuels... shipped to UK using F Fuels, trucked to DRAX etc by F Fuels, inefficiently burned to produce GREEN Energy.

Cui bono ? Hint:- NOT you or I.

Now our solar panel -will be only bought back at cents per unit here in WA - the 20 / 40 cent subsidy finished, so not worth installing now unless a battery of sorts is incorporated.
This is going to be a cool winter..... our solar HWS is boosted by..... GAS. [bigsad]

[3toes]

Did it mention that the wood pellets used in the UK power plants are produced from the waste at the sawmill from the process of creating the timber from trees? A lot of this was it seems previously burnt as it was not cost effective to process and transport to markets as other products. High levels of particle pollution from burning wood is another question

[NavyDiver]

During one 5 minute trading block last night Qld hit $9.50 / kWh in the electricity market.

179202

Ouch plus. I have heat pumps for hydronic heating and hot water at home. Very efficient yet they use electricity.

Sparky said no issues moving my works panels to home for me. That would give a theoretical 10.4 kWh. Us Mexicans seldom see the full capacity and having more panels than Inverter power capacity is probably smarter here.

The whole system seems to be holding up well with the very cold arctic blast many of us are getting. I did see a interesting long term reliability study on coal, gas, solar, wind and a power type we do not have in Australia. Its an American study (https://www.energy.gov/ne/articles/nuclear-power-most-reliable-energy-source-and-its-not-even-close). 100%, 150% or more up time and online time

Not that I can have one of them at home of course[bigwhistle]

https://www.energy.gov/sites/default/files/styles/full_article_width/public/2021-03/CapacityFactor2020-1200x675.png?itok=yuBHBMgM

[loanrangie]

I will be looking to move from ducted gas to a heat pump system or at lease add a reverse cycle aircon that will boost our evaporative cooling plus heating.

[Vern]

Ouch plus. I have heat pumps for hydronic heating and hot water at home. Very efficient yet they use electricity.

Sparky said no issues moving my works panels to home for me. That would give a theoretical 10.4 kWh. Us Mexicans seldom see the full capacity and having more panels than Inverter power capacity is probably smarter here.

The whole system seems to be holding up well with the very cold arctic blast many of us are getting. I did see a interesting long term reliability study on coal, gas, solar, wind and a power type we do not have in Australia. Its an American study (https://www.energy.gov/ne/articles/nuclear-power-most-reliable-energy-source-and-its-not-even-close). 100%, 150% or more up time and online time

Not that I can have one of them at home of course[bigwhistle]

https://www.energy.gov/sites/default/files/styles/full_article_width/public/2021-03/CapacityFactor2020-1200x675.png?itok=yuBHBMgMWhat size inverter do you have? Or will have when panels are moved?

[NavyDiver]

What size inverter do you have? Or will have when panels are moved?

Hi Vern, I can put both existing 5 kWh inverters to use with one not exporting as limits on my line out is 5kWh. The "Why Oversizing Solar Panel Arrays Is A Smart Move (https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/oversizing-solar-arrays/)
" is what I would do if I did not already have the inverters. Oversizing is in my opinion a very good idea


I will put as much panels as I can fit and will look at the inverter second at work for my new systems. I have 2 Victron MultiPlus-II inverter chargers at work already providing up to a lot more watts than I can draw normally ( several laser printers can spike)

The Muliplus allows off or on grid work as usual for me. A hybrid invert does the same. A standard inverter turns everything OFF if the grid fails. I had a goodwe hybrid inverter, now spare at work, which might come home. It was cheap and very effective expect I exceeded its capacity at some times I suspect now was entirely my several laser printer, hot water system and Microwave biting me at the worst possible moment. Perfect Storm stuff rare but I am a sailor [bigwhistle]

Noted QLD just missed a black out tonight which was oddly stopped be a "Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO) (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-13/qld-power-electricity-blackouts-averted-aemo/101148474)I told you (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-13/qld-power-electricity-blackouts-averted-aemo/101148474)"

It seems very odd AEMO has to tell QLD generators to up their game ?


One fix I want on the export limits is batteries. My cars are not yet bi directional by replacements will be I think. BYD ev is bi- directional now. Buying the cheaper byd atto 3 is oddly much cheaper than buying 49.92 kWh of batteries for home or work? I did think about it[bigwhistle]

Really keen on a Hydrogen or battery option for fishing a silly way off shore so I am waiting for better options to be affordable.

Glad QLD dodged a black out tonight. It was a bit close.

[simonmelb]

Which brand of heat pumps do you have?

We’re soon to ditch gas and need a heat pump for hot water.


Ouch plus. I have heat pumps for hydronic heating and hot water at home. Very efficient yet they use electricity.

[NavyDiver]

Which brand of heat pumps do you have?

We’re soon to ditch gas and need a heat pump for hot water.

I have 5 Sandaen heat pumps into two large tanks. I love and hate them. Great yet they are designed for hot water and I want hot water and hot water for hydronic heating. Sanden was the best at the time I got them yet they are really designed to run just one unit per tank. It was not my Design- A shyster I will not name guaranteed it would work.

I am thinking of selling my 4 of my 5 *6kWh Sandan and replacing with a new LG option (https://www.lg.com/gr/download/resources/CT32004443/CT32004443_1641.pdf). 2 x HM163M.U33

We have 3 phase power and I can split my solar to three inverters that may give me a lot of free heating and hot water. Above has not even been discussed with my nice hydronic gent (https://www.solarhydronics.com.au/). (Mark)

One heat pump will go to work - I can recycle the very old electric Hot water system tank with one heat pump happily. Not looking for a warranty just cheap hot water [thumbsupbig]

Edit - Marks web site points to a German brand which looks interesting as well perhaps Heat Pumps, Domestic Heat Pumps, Heat Pumps Melbourne, Australia - STIEBEL ELTRON (https://www.stiebel-eltron.com.au/heat-pumps)

[simonmelb]

Ah cool setup. I once visited a quite small Airbnb cottage that had 2 Sandens also but I think they may have been separated for HWS and a very small hydronic setup.

Are the LGs on the Australian market yet? There’s so many Euro heat pump models we don’t get like the small Daikin UK air to water heat pumps.

We were considering a hydronic setup but wanted cooling as well, so are installing a Daikin multi split system with 3 built-in bulkhead indoor units plus a very small ducted system for 3 other rooms.

Good luck with your re-design


I have 5 Sandaen heat pumps into two large tanks. I love and hate them. Great yet they are designed for hot water and I want hot water and hot water for hydronic heating. Sanden was the best at the time I got them yet they are really designed to run just one unit per tank. It was not my Design- A shyster I will not name guaranteed it would work.

I am thinking of selling my 4 of my 5 *6kWh Sandan and replacing with a new LG option (https://www.lg.com/gr/download/resources/CT32004443/CT32004443_1641.pdf). 2 x HM163M.U33

[1950landy]

We have two separate lots of solar panels on our house so two inverters ( German & Swedish ) One inverter had to be replaced after 3 years the other we had to replace in January this year ( about 10years old) The guy who came to replace it told me we would need to replace all the solar panels in the next 5 years as the efficiency of the panels & booth panels & inverters have a limited life . They don't tell you that when they sell you the systems.

[NavyDiver]

We have two separate lots of solar panels on our house so two inverters ( German & Swedish ) One inverter had to be replaced after 3 years the other we had to replace in January this year ( about 10years old) The guy who came to replace it told me we would need to replace all the solar panels in the next 5 years as the efficiency of the panels & booth panels & inverters have a limited life . They don't tell you that when they sell you the systems.

Bet he is wrong! 10 plus years for almost all Solar panels. Every thing has a life span. Proof is your solar yield in a month by month over the years not some one wanting to sell you things.

Note some very cheap rubbish was imported a few years ago allegedly. Some studied in this link are 2008 (https://dkasolarcentre.com.au/locations/alice-springs/technologies). Surprised you were not under a warranty for the 3 year replacement? SMA for example has "5-year manufacturer's" warranty which is often 10 years with just a little rejigging. I sold one second hand to put a Hybrid inverter at work which is still kicking on at 10 years old now.[biggrin]

[scarry]

I have a tenant in one of our sheds that wants a 200Kw solar system.

We are working through quotes,and other options at the moment.

I hope the panels and inverters last longer than 3 to 5 yrs?
Seems most we have been quoted have a 5yr warranty.

[NavyDiver]

I have a tenant in one of our sheds that wants a 200Kw solar system.

We are working through quotes,and other options at the moment.

I hope the panels and inverters last longer than 3 to 5 yrs?
Seems most we have been quoted have a 5yr warranty.

Looking at some with 25 years warranty? 10 year plus is normal for better quality panels.

Back on topic. "Five states face power uncertainty as AEMO warns of maximum load interruptions (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-14/queensland-blackouts-power-supply-concerns-australia-aemo/101151286)"

What a mess! Beside lights our vaccines are completely dependent on power security! That five state warning is right now and next few days!

[Vern]

We have two separate lots of solar panels on our house so two inverters ( German & Swedish ) One inverter had to be replaced after 3 years the other we had to replace in January this year ( about 10years old) The guy who came to replace it told me we would need to replace all the solar panels in the next 5 years as the efficiency of the panels & booth panels & inverters have a limited life . They don't tell you that when they sell you the systems.That guy is full of it.

[Vern]

I have a tenant in one of our sheds that wants a 200Kw solar system.

We are working through quotes,and other options at the moment.

I hope the panels and inverters last longer than 3 to 5 yrs?
Seems most we have been quoted have a 5yr warranty.Better warranties than 5 years on inverters.
What gear have they quoted you on?

[scarry]

Better warranties than 5 years on inverters.
What gear have they quoted you on?

This off one of the quotes,i cant get to the prefered quote at the moment.

System Size: Approx. 219.kW
Panel Make: Tier 1 Panels
Panel Model: 440 – 540W modules
Inverter Make: SolarEdge
DC Isolators: ZJBeny or Suntree
AC Isolators: Suntree, NHP or Nusainger

Up to 100Kw there are good rebates,so will probably be done in two stages,as it will be just under 200Kw.
Need room around the AC units,roof mounted fans,access to gutter clean,etc.

[Vern]

This off one of the quotes,i cant get to the prefered quote at the moment.

System Size: Approx. 219.kW
Panel Make: Tier 1 Panels
Panel Model: 440 – 540W modules
Inverter Make: SolarEdge
DC Isolators: ZJBeny or Suntree
AC Isolators: Suntree, NHP or Nusainger

Up to 100Kw there are good rebates,so will probably be done in two stages,as it will be just under 200Kw.
Need room around the AC units,roof mounted fans,access to gutter clean,etc.Ok, doesn't have a panel brand I see.
Solaredge stuff is good, I have that on my house. We are currently installing a 1.2Mw solaredge system on Coffs hospital, a lot of work.

We generally do all our over 100kw systems the same, install the first 99.9kw, claim STC'S, then do the remainder later on.

[3toes]

Are the guarantees insurance backed or manufacturer/retailer supplied? If not insurance backed will they be around to claim in 5 years time?

[JDNSW]

Real life experience - my original system worked as good as new (except for batteries - about ten years) for twenty years until inverters damaged by a lightning strike, when the entire system was replaced by house insurance. There was no measurable drop in solar panel output during this period.

[scarry]

Ok, doesn't have a panel brand I see.
Solaredge stuff is good, I have that on my house. We are currently installing a 1.2Mw solaredge system on Coffs hospital, a lot of work.

We generally do all our over 100kw systems the same, install the first 99.9kw, claim STC'S, then do the remainder later on.

Ok,thanks,this is preferred quote.I have also known these guys for a long time,they have done electrical work for us many times over the years,and now have a specialist solar division.
I was dreaming about the warranty,seems its longer than i remembered.[bighmmm]

" SolarEdge inverters (12 yr standard warranty) due to their optimiser solution and typically combine these with Canadian Solar, Trina Solar or similar panels. Most panels are a minimum 12 year manufacturers warranty but some brands have increased to 15 and even 20 years though price usually becomes a factor then."

That hospital job will keep you busy for a while[biggrin]
As long as the rain stays away.

[Vern]

Are the guarantees insurance backed or manufacturer/retailer supplied? If not insurance backed will they be around to claim in 5 years time?Manufacturers. Most inverter companies have been around for well over 10 years now in one way or another. Most inverters can be repaired too, thats what we do a fair bit of as we have a specialised electronics division for this.

[NavyDiver]

Manufacturers. Most inverter companies have been around for well over 10 years now in one way or another. Most inverters can be repaired too, thats what we do a fair bit of as we have a specialised electronics division for this.

The very cool place in Vic that repairs 'Victron' is also a specialists for Off road, caravans and similar. Amazing busines I have not got to visit nearly enough[thumbsupbig] Services – Retrolooms (https://www.retrolooms.com.au/retrolooms-services/)



And brake and more.

Where is your place Vern?

[Vern]

The very cool place in Vic that repairs 'Victron' is also a specialists for Off road, caravans and similar. Amazing busines I have not got to visit nearly enough[thumbsupbig] Services – Retrolooms (https://www.retrolooms.com.au/retrolooms-services/)



And brake and more.

Where is your place Vern?We are in Coffs Harbour. We don't do automotive, just solar, solarfarms, off grid, hybrid, wind etc...We are also a victron dealer and repairer, as well as repair ABB, solis, fronius, sma, selectronics, etc...and lots of weird and wonderful things.

[spudfan]

..

[Arapiles]

A mate of mine went into business with some colleagues importing cheap solar panels from China, and it nearly bankrupted him. His wife told us that up to 20% of the panels they'd imported were faulty - I presume that they then all had to be replaced at their cost.

We installed solar about 10 years ago but as early adopters we got the Vic premium feed-in tariff, so combined with a very low usage in our house due to insulation, double-glazing and LEDs we basically haven't had an electricity or gas bill over the last 10 years. As an asthmatic I hate the gas heating and wanted hydronic installed, but it made no financial sense to remove it and with the feed-in surplus it didn't cost us anything to run. The premium feed-in tariff runs out in 2024 so at that point we'll install more panels and a battery system and start operating it differently, so we're maximising usage during the day and not export.

[BradC]

A mate of mine went into business with some colleagues importing cheap solar panels from China, and it nearly bankrupted him. His wife told us that up to 20% of the panels they'd imported were faulty - I presume that they then all had to be replaced at their cost.

Not uncommon. The guy I bought my generator off negotiated a 10% discount on the purchase and freight so he could put some aside for warranty replacement.

When they started importing Hikvision CCTV cameras into Aus, the out of the box failure was about 10% with more than that again over the warranty period. The guys importing them just used to jack up the price and use that to cover the over-order to manage the failures.

Heck, I bought some copper "refrigeration grade" pipe which rusted. Don't even get me started on Chinese structural grade steel.

You can get quality from China, but you need to pay for it and make sure you run your own QA processes. If you don't have someone on the ground then it's pretty difficult.

[RANDLOVER]

.....................The premium feed-in tariff runs out in 2024 so at that point we'll install more panels and a battery system and start operating it differently, so we're maximising usage during the day and not export.

When the time comes, you might want to consider an electric car, which is basically a battery on wheels as the new ones have software to talk to the grid. Saul Griffith of Rewiring Australia (https://www.rewiringaustralia.org/) reckons if all our cars were electric they'd be 5-6 times the size of Snowy 2.0 in battery capacity. Interestingly he says "going green" is not a gloom and doom scenario of smaller cars, higher energy prices, etc. as we have an energy abundance in solar, wind, etc. There are a lot of losses in our current systems mostly in heat, when burning fuel in cars, boiling a kettle on gas, etc. not to mention transmission losses in power lines. According to Saul the green hardware like solar panels, ev's, seem to get cheaper at a rate of 20% per doubling of units produced, so your extra panels and batteries plans look better and better each year.

[Arapiles]

When the time comes, you might want to consider an electric car, which is basically a battery on wheels as the new ones have software to talk to the grid.

We will get an electric car in the next 5 years, but I'm more likely to buy a private import JDM range-extender model like the Nissan e-Note. And I'd always presumed that Australia was like Japan and you could link your electric car to your house but apparently not.

[Arapiles]

Heck, I bought some copper "refrigeration grade" pipe which rusted. Don't even get me started on Chinese structural grade steel.


Our sinks all have green stains from the copper that is leaching out of the pipes. That's from new pipes installed when we renovated 10 years ago, we didn't have that problem with the previous plumbing. It's probably at least partly due to how acidic our rain water is but it's been suggested that it may also be that the copper pipes that the builder specced aren't great quality.

[loanrangie]

Just got our monthly gas bill and nearly fell over, i'm a heater scrooge so try to minimize its use but **** me its still over $440.
I need to seriously look at ditching it and going for reverse cycle split systems, 3 gas bills and it'll be paid for [bawl].

[JDNSW]

Yeah - but how about the power bill?

[loanrangie]

Yeah - but how about the power bill?

Just over half the gas bill.

[BradC]

Just over half the gas bill.

Until you put the reverse cycle systems in.

[loanrangie]

Until you put the reverse cycle systems in.

Less gas usage and more efficient use of electricity.

[NavyDiver]

Until you put the reverse cycle systems in.

Interesting on that Brad. My heat pumps cost me a motz IF the thermostat was set to 22. at 20 degrees it is significantly better. Ditto at work with spit systems which are on all day 20 ish IF my staff do not play with fan settings on cold and 24ish for warm weather cut my power bills by a huge amount.

I can see a significant difference in older splits and the newer ( 5 year old) ones I have now.

Not gas phobic yet very happy not to be dependant on it at all now.

[Vern]

Interesting on that Brad. My heat pumps cost me a motz IF the thermostat was set to 22. at 20 degrees it is significantly better. Ditto at work with spit systems which are on all day 20 ish IF my staff do not play with fan settings on cold and 24ish for warm weather cut my power bills by a huge amount.

I can see a significant difference in older splits and the newer ( 5 year old) ones I have now.

Not gas phobic yet very happy not to be dependant on it at all now.And you can offset that load with pv, bit hard to do with gas.

[superquag]

Our sinks all have green stains from the copper that is leaching out of the pipes. That's from new pipes installed when we renovated 10 years ago, we didn't have that problem with the previous plumbing. It's probably at least partly due to how acidic our rain water is but it's been suggested that it may also be that the copper pipes that the builder specced aren't great quality.

My guess would be the pipe quality.... Just look up 'where' it was manufactured. Hint:- Not likely in this large Island...[bigsad]

Vague memory tells we in WA had similar concerns when a new children's hospital was being finished off.... 'Lead' in the water supply. - Leads (sorry!) mainly pointed to fittings / piping. Much huffing and puffing - and a truckload of mis-direction. Eventually buried. Ramifications don't bear thinking about, but consider deterioration of Roman Empire's Capital city... [bigwhistle][bigsad][bigwhistle]

[superquag]

Both India and China have lotsa COAL fired power, and both planning on building MORE.
That's ok, we're flogging COAL to anyone with money.

Australia is saving the planet by shutting down our last half a dozen.... Ours in WA have been starved of maintainance for Years... so the timing of 'Shut Down' will be up to "Time & Chance"

Caught a story about BHP wanting zillions of panels over our useless desert areas... That should solve running reverse cycle A/c's
- And charge your battery car while working. [bigsad]

[superquag]

When the time comes, you might want to consider an electric car, which is basically a battery on wheels as the new ones have software to talk to the grid. Saul Griffith of Rewiring Australia (https://www.rewiringaustralia.org/) reckons if all our cars were electric they'd be 5-6 times the size of Snowy 2.0 in battery capacity. Interestingly he says "going green" is not a gloom and doom scenario of smaller cars, higher energy prices, etc. as we have an energy abundance in solar, wind, etc. There are a lot of losses in our current systems mostly in heat, when burning fuel in cars, boiling a kettle on gas, etc. not to mention transmission losses in power lines. According to Saul the green hardware like solar panels, ev's, seem to get cheaper at a rate of 20% per doubling of units produced, so your extra panels and batteries plans look better and better each year.

Our 15 year old solar array was 'middle-to top' of the wazza back then, and split into 2 strings pushing out most of rated inverter on best days. Adding a third string years - less optimum siting - hinted at efficiency-drop of originals . The idea was to spread the input over whole day instead of sunrise to 2 pm. Couple of years later 3-S inverter becomes wall decoration.... and replaced with 2-string Sunnyboy.

Repairable? - couple of obvious dry joints on grid-connect pcb relays but new one is hummming away nicely, so couldn't be bothered going back. Sunny despite his name, likes a good look at SOL before getting going whereas the Dearly Departed was awake at Piccaninny Dawn.
Every mW helps !

[Tombie]

Our 15 year old solar array was 'middle-to top' of the wazza back then, and split into 2 strings pushing out most of rated inverter on best days. Adding a third string years - less optimum siting - hinted at efficiency-drop of originals . The idea was to spread the input over whole day instead of sunrise to 2 pm. Couple of years later 3-S inverter becomes wall decoration.... and replaced with 2-string Sunnyboy.

Repairable? - couple of obvious dry joints on grid-connect pcb relays but new one is hummming away nicely, so couldn't be bothered going back. Sunny despite his name, likes a good look at SOL before getting going whereas the Dearly Departed was awake at Piccaninny Dawn.
Every mW helps !

Get the software, and log on in.... be careful, but you can change threshold settings [biggrin] (do so completely at your own risk, I wont be responsible for your actions)

Also, its not so much when it turns on either, theres efficiencies to be considered.

[disco gazza]

I just had solar put in.
Rec Alpha Pure series 400 X 14, supposedly good for 5.600kW of power.
Now just waiting on Tas networks to come put a new meter in,then I can turn it on.[biggrin]

DG

[superquag]

Get the software, and log on in.... be careful, but you can change threshold settings [biggrin] (do so completely at your own risk, I wont be responsible for your actions)

Also, its not so much when it turns on either, theres efficiencies to be considered.

Agree. Anecdotally, the Sunny, despite it's perceived 'good' repute does not strike me as being notably better than it's predecessor. Not much worse, but nowt better, - 'nuff 't write 'ome aboot...

'One Day', when I find the Giant soldering Smelter, spare relays, AND some space in the shed...I MIGHT replace them.- Just for the heck of it.

[NavyDiver]

Both India and China have lotsa COAL fired power, and both planning on building MORE.
That's ok, we're flogging COAL to anyone with money.

Australia is saving the planet by shutting down our last half a dozen.... Ours in WA have been starved of maintainance for Years... so the timing of 'Shut Down' will be up to "Time & Chance"

Caught a story about BHP wanting zillions of panels over our useless desert areas... That should solve running reverse cycle A/c's
- And charge your battery car while working. [bigsad]
Both are building more nuclear plants much faster than many can right now. The change is easy to see with Small modular reactors (SMRs) very happily I think- not for nuclear phobic [thumbsupbig]

[superquag]

Will be worth keeeping a weather-eye on the vaccillating fortunes of 'Thorium Reactors'..... - Don't need such highly refined fuel as does u235.

[DoubleChevron]

Good topic..... heating is a no brainer. if your plumbed for natural gas ..... its infinitly better for heating. A big central heating furnace is has wwwaaaayyyyyy more capacity that heat pumps. If its down around zero outside ... and 8degrees in your house of a morning. Your central heating (gas) will have you nice and warm in minutes. The heat pumps will take hours .... the colder it is outside the longer they will take.

For heating, you will find in the middle of winter you will generate bugger all power. Especially if you live somewhere overcast like ballarat.

179689

I'm not sure if this includes the power we use that is generated.... but see how much we use in winter heating with heat pumps (and heat pump hot water service). There is 8 heat pumps here if you include the two on the HWS. So summer, we generate more power than we use, in winter we generate bugger all of the used power and have HUGE bills. Ask your neighbours what sort of power they generate in a miserable dark. rainy winter before you go replacing heating with heat pumps for savings.

Our power bills are still ~ $250 a month in winter. We do have 3 kids home on holidays and have dishwasher/electric cloths driers being used heavily as well as the heat pumps.

seeya,
Shane L.

[loanrangie]

Good topic..... heating is a no brainer. if your plumbed for natural gas ..... its infinitly better for heating. A big central heating furnace is has wwwaaaayyyyyy more capacity that heat pumps. If its down around zero outside ... and 8degrees in your house of a morning. Your central heating (gas) will have you nice and warm in minutes. The heat pumps will take hours .... the colder it is outside the longer they will take.

For heating, you will find in the middle of winter you will generate bugger all power. Especially if you live somewhere overcast like ballarat.

179689

I'm not sure if this includes the power we use that is generated.... but see how much we use in winter heating with heat pumps (and heat pump hot water service). There is 8 heat pumps here if you include the two on the HWS. So summer, we generate more power than we use, in winter we generate bugger all of the used power and have HUGE bills. Ask your neighbours what sort of power they generate in a miserable dark. rainy winter before you go replacing heating with heat pumps for savings.

Our power bills are still ~ $250 a month in winter. We do have 3 kids home on holidays and have dishwasher/electric cloths driers being used heavily as well as the heat pumps.

seeya,
Shane L.


Gas works great but the price has gone up to the point its uneconomical to run since you are using 2 fuels to run it, 2 years ago our combined bill was 300-350/month in winter and now its almost double - the gas portion has tripled.

[101RRS]

In the east coast there has been a lot of media coverage about electricity prices going through the roof due to issues with the old coal fired power stations and coal/gas price increases.

A couple of years back the ACT Government changed ACT power to solely renewable power supplies - I have always been a skeptic of this as to me even now is it not really possible to power a moderately sized city just on renewables without thing like batteries and hydro. The ACT only has one power supplier which is ACTEWAGL - so AGL. It wholesales and retails and also sells to resellers like Origin.

My house power is supplied by ACTEWAGL and I received a letter from them last week saying that from 1 Jul this year my power usage charges will be reducing by 1.5%. [thumbsupbig].

Interesting a friend who gets his power from a reseller was advised that his power will be going up by 10% so a bit of price gouging going on their.

Was good to get a price reduction when the rest of the east coast prices are going up, so their might be something to the renewable story afterall.

Garry

[loanrangie]

In the east coast there has been a lot of media coverage about electricity prices going through the roof due to issues with the old coal fired power stations and coal/gas price increases.

A couple of years back the ACT Government changed ACT power to solely renewable power supplies - I have always been a skeptic of this as to me even now is it not really possible to power a moderately sized city just on renewables without thing like batteries and hydro. The ACT only has one power supplier which is ACTEWAGL - so AGL. It wholesales and retails and also sells to resellers like Origin.

My house power is supplied by ACTEWAGL and I received a letter from them last week saying that from 1 Jul this year my power usage charges will be reducing by 1.5%. [thumbsupbig].

Interesting a friend who gets his power from a reseller was advised that his power will be going up by 10% so a bit of price gouging going on their.

Was good to get a price reduction when the rest of the east coast prices are going up, so their might be something to the renewable story afterall.

Garry

Maybe they are using all that hot gas from the pollies to power the generators.

[NavyDiver]

In the east coast there has been a lot of media coverage about electricity prices going through the roof due to issues with the old coal fired power stations and coal/gas price increases.

A couple of years back the ACT Government changed ACT power to solely renewable power supplies - I have always been a skeptic of this as to me even now is it not really possible to power a moderately sized city just on renewables without thing like batteries and hydro. The ACT only has one power supplier which is ACTEWAGL - so AGL. It wholesales and retails and also sells to resellers like Origin.

My house power is supplied by ACTEWAGL and I received a letter from them last week saying that from 1 Jul this year my power usage charges will be reducing by 1.5%. [thumbsupbig].

Interesting a friend who gets his power from a reseller was advised that his power will be going up by 10% so a bit of price gouging going on their.

Was good to get a price reduction when the rest of the east coast prices are going up, so their might be something to the renewable story afterall.

Garry

AGL email arrived yesterday. Mines up 5% ish and down for the solar feed in:bat: I do not like to given them my solar at all. Try hard to use it all[biggrin]

[DoubleChevron]

Just be careful if you are using that government energy watch website. It appears to be a crock of merde to me. I logged on to see if I could get the $$$ they are promising if you get a free quote ... I uploaded my latest bill. And it come back with a page full of the best offers and the promised savings per year. I opened the cheapest off and compared it to the bill I'd uploaded. The feed-in rate was identical, the daily charges were identical ... the "peak power" (the only thing I used) was more expensive.

NOWHERE DOES IT SAY .... STAY WITH YOUR CURRENT OFFER IT IS CHEAPER. They must use "guestimates" to tell you have much you will save for the year.... WTF?? we can directly compare the charges. I said the same to my parents, they went and checked and the offer they were offered that was cheaper than there suggested currently annual bill ..... was also more expensive if you compared directly the power charges.

I urge anyone looking at any site, do your homework. You would think a government website could get it right [bighmmm] I'm through [B]Tango if anyone is interested .... and they didn't even rate a mention over all the more expensive billing providers suggested on the crappy government site.

seeya
Shane L.

[biggin]

........You would think a government website could get it right....


[emoji23]You are joking, surely?

[101RRS]

Just be careful if you are using that government energy watch website. It appears to be a crock of merde to me. I logged on to see if I could get the $$$ they are promising if you get a free quote ... I uploaded my latest bill. And it come back with a page full of the best offers and the promised savings per year. I opened the cheapest off and compared it to the bill I'd uploaded. The feed-in rate was identical, the daily charges were identical ... the "peak power" (the only thing I used) was more expensive.

NOWHERE DOES IT SAY .... STAY WITH YOUR CURRENT OFFER IT IS CHEAPER. They must use "guestimates" to tell you have much you will save for the year.... WTF?? we can directly compare the charges. I said the same to my parents, they went and checked and the offer they were offered that was cheaper than there suggested currently annual bill ..... was also more expensive if you compared directly the power charges.

I urge anyone looking at any site, do your homework. You would think a government website could get it right [bighmmm] I'm through [B]Tango if anyone is interested .... and they didn't even rate a mention over all the more expensive billing providers suggested on the crappy government site.

seeya
Shane L.

Absolutely no different to mortgage, health insurance and car insurance comparison sites - the initial search does not necessarily give the best price - that only happens when you actually apply.

[loanrangie]

Yep, I checked the site and my current supplier was cheaper after I switched plans. Just got the elec bill and it's down $70 [emoji106].

[superquag]

Since all you electricity (Most?) comes from coal and OIL and GAS, you cannot escape your 'Carbon Footprint'

guessing it's the next little lurk to control and bankrupt us...

See here for a primer on this... Your "Carbon Footprint" is a LIE (and we all fell for it) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_zjhp5HyfI)

[350RRC]

Since all you electricity (Most?) comes from coal and OIL and GAS, you cannot escape your 'Carbon Footprint'

guessing it's the next little lurk to control and bankrupt us...

See here for a primer on this... Your "Carbon Footprint" is a LIE (and we all fell for it) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_zjhp5HyfI)

Couldn't log on to that................ there's a stainless colander over the phone.

DL

[3toes]

If the same as the UK government comparison site it is designed to encourage you to switch as they see the inertia of people as a bigger problem. This being a tool to attempt to change habits which they hope then make the retailers offer keener prices. So the calculations done in the background are not always ‘correct’ due to a weighting applied.

Commercial comparison sites can have interesting definitions of best price which may or may not be influenced by the commission they receive from the supplier

[DiscoMick]

We're trying a different way to heat water, which may also lower our power bill.
We have just installed a power diverter which reads our solar production and household demand.
So all our hot water will be heated using surplus solar generated during the day, above what is needed to run the house, since you don't get much for putting it back into the grid.
So that's 6.8Kw of solar panels running a house and heating a 250 litre Rheem stainless steel tank.
Early days yet but so far there is plenty of hot water.
If it doesn't heat, maybe because of multiple overcast days, there is an override button to use grid power to heat the water, but hopefully we'll never need it.
We do have a separate off-peak circuit to operate after 10pm, but why would we pay to heat water if we can get it free from solar?
So the next bill could be interesting.

[DiscoMick]

The white box is the power diverter I'm talking about.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220719/b19560e09175839130c233502a783972.jpg

[Vern]

We're trying a different way to heat water, which may also lower our power bill.
We have just installed a power diverter which reads our solar production and household demand.
So all our hot water will be heated using surplus solar generated during the day, above what is needed to run the house, since you don't get much for putting it back into the grid.
So that's 6.8Kw of solar panels running a house and heating a 250 litre Rheem stainless steel tank.
Early days yet but so far there is plenty of hot water.
If it doesn't heat, maybe because of multiple overcast days, there is an override button to use grid power to heat the water, but hopefully we'll never need it.
We do have a separate off-peak circuit to operate after 10pm, but why would we pay to heat water if we can get it free from solar?
So the next bill could be interesting.I have similar, its called a Catch Power green relay, same thing, locally made, has functions for off peak etc too.
We sell and install quite a few of these through work.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220719/9e419b4b08f855559ee166fafd0dcfd0.jpg

[DiscoMick]

Looks good. Our local solar guy says he is installing an increasing number of power diverters.
He is still advising against installing batteries, which is interesting as he could probably make good bucks from household batteries.
But he is advising that panels are cheap, so just fit more and maximise daytime use of free solar in the house, rather than sending it to the grid.
It costs 3-4 times more to draw power from the grid than we get for sending our surplus power to the grid, so why do it?
I have similar, its called a Catch Power green relay, same thing, locally made, has functions for off peak etc too.
We sell and install quite a few of these through work.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220719/9e419b4b08f855559ee166fafd0dcfd0.jpg

[NavyDiver]

I think the sales snow job V real and reliable is a issue in any business.

Calls for better consumer protections intensify as complaints over shoddy solar panels soar (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-28/dodgy-solar-panels-spur-calls-for-greater-consumer-protections/101478300?utm_campaign=abc_news_web&utm_content=link&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web)
Buyer beware Caveat emptor [bigwhistle]Some of the phone calls I have had from sales people make me both laugh and cringe.

[Vern]

I think the sales snow job V real and reliable is a issue in any business.

Calls for better consumer protections intensify as complaints over shoddy solar panels soar (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-28/dodgy-solar-panels-spur-calls-for-greater-consumer-protections/101478300?utm_campaign=abc_news_web&utm_content=link&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web)
Buyer beware Caveat emptor [bigwhistle]Some of the phone calls I have had from sales people make me both laugh and cringe.The CEC already do what Plug In plans on doing. The hoops, we as solar installers have to jump through is unbelievable compared to the Electrical industry.
The installers around be providing all relevant information to the consumer already.
Shoddy panels should fall back on the CEC for approving them for use under the STC approved products register.
As for Shoddy installers, IMHO all installations should be inspected by an electrical inspector in each state lime they do in Victoria.
These installers are still around because people buy their systems based on price and not reputation.
My tip is don't buy a system off a cold caller or a mob that has cricketers doing their adds!
We now refuse to do any service work for any of these companies as there is to many issues, and as soon as we touch the system, we own the dramas.

[NavyDiver]

Will be an be a extra OUCH plus? Head line say by. Company say More than 35%[bighmmm]

"Alinta is planning to close its Loy Yang B coal-fired power station in Victoria, which produces 1,000-megawatts of power, replacing it with offshore wind and pumped hydro."What cost me $1 billion to acquire is going to cost me $8 billion to replace, so let's talk about that and [someone] explain to me how energy prices still come down," Mr Dimery told the summit.

"I don't get it. I am missing something.""

Prices and savings number just changed a LOT!

My consideration for doubling the Solar at work got a lot easier as well. Recycling older 5 kw system to family I think.

[NavyDiver]

"One of Australia's leading charities is imploring state and federal governments to shield poor and disadvantaged households from spiralling power prices, saying "scattergun" policies risked making the cost-of-living crisis worse (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-27/federal-government-facing-unpleasant-choices-on-energy/101580884?utm_campaign=abc_news_web&utm_content=link&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web)."

Inflation in Prices is assured now. Trying to triple my work solar for several months is a bit slow as now I am told a 300% increase in people trying to get Solar on their houses right now!


"Retail electricity prices are expected by rise by 50 per cent over the next two years, dealing households and businesses another cost-of-living blow.Treasury has assumed in the federal budget (https://7news.com.au/politics/budget/what-the-family-friendly-federal-budget-means-for-you-as-cost-of-living-crisis-continues-to-bite-c-8646738) that retail power prices will increase by an average of 20 per cent nationally in late 2022, and a further 30 per cent in 2023/24." Link

(https://7news.com.au/politics/aussies-hit-with-another-cost-of-living-blow-as-power-prices-tipped-to-rise-by-50-per-cent-c-8657366)Have to admit its is going to hurt. The UK example of promised power cost relief made a very short Pommy PM! Here in Vic a promise sounds a very very unlikely on the delivery front in my thoughts


Differing costs in several states can be seen at a wholesale level very easily AEMO data (https://aemo.com.au/en/energy-systems/electricity/national-electricity-market-nem/data-nem/data-dashboard-nem)

PS I do not click on links often at present. With OPTUS and Medibank hacks likely via links opened by their staff I hear!:bat:

[scarry]

"One of Australia's leading charities is imploring state and federal governments to shield poor and disadvantaged households from spiralling power prices, saying "scattergun" policies risked making the cost-of-living crisis worse (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-27/federal-government-facing-unpleasant-choices-on-energy/101580884?utm_campaign=abc_news_web&utm_content=link&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web)."

Inflation in Prices is assured now. Trying to triple my work solar for several months is a bit slow as now I am told a 300% increase in people trying to get Solar on their houses right now!


"Retail electricity prices are expected by rise by 50 per cent over the next two years, dealing households and businesses another cost-of-living blow.Treasury has assumed in the federal budget (https://7news.com.au/politics/budget/what-the-family-friendly-federal-budget-means-for-you-as-cost-of-living-crisis-continues-to-bite-c-8646738) that retail power prices will increase by an average of 20 per cent nationally in late 2022, and a further 30 per cent in 2023/24." Link

(https://7news.com.au/politics/aussies-hit-with-another-cost-of-living-blow-as-power-prices-tipped-to-rise-by-50-per-cent-c-8657366)Have to admit its is going to hurt. The UK example of promised power cost relief made a very short Pommy PM! Here in Vic a promise sounds a very very unlikely on the delivery front in my thoughts


Differing costs in several states can be seen at a wholesale level very easily AEMO data (https://aemo.com.au/en/energy-systems/electricity/national-electricity-market-nem/data-nem/data-dashboard-nem)

PS I do not click on links often at present. With OPTUS and Medibank hacks likely via links opened by their staff I hear!:bat:

Going to hurt businesses as well,just like the cost of fuel,mainly diesel.
I know of a smallish business that pays over $25K a month on power ATM.

[350RRC]

"One of Australia's leading charities is imploring state and federal governments to shield poor and disadvantaged households from spiralling power prices, saying "scattergun" policies risked making the cost-of-living crisis worse (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-27/federal-government-facing-unpleasant-choices-on-energy/101580884?utm_campaign=abc_news_web&utm_content=link&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web)."

Inflation in Prices is assured now. Trying to triple my work solar for several months is a bit slow as now I am told a 300% increase in people trying to get Solar on their houses right now!


"Retail electricity prices are expected by rise by 50 per cent over the next two years, dealing households and businesses another cost-of-living blow.Treasury has assumed in the federal budget (https://7news.com.au/politics/budget/what-the-family-friendly-federal-budget-means-for-you-as-cost-of-living-crisis-continues-to-bite-c-8646738) that retail power prices will increase by an average of 20 per cent nationally in late 2022, and a further 30 per cent in 2023/24." Link

(https://7news.com.au/politics/aussies-hit-with-another-cost-of-living-blow-as-power-prices-tipped-to-rise-by-50-per-cent-c-8657366)Have to admit its is going to hurt. The UK example of promised power cost relief made a very short Pommy PM! Here in Vic a promise sounds a very very unlikely on the delivery front in my thoughts


Differing costs in several states can be seen at a wholesale level very easily AEMO data (https://aemo.com.au/en/energy-systems/electricity/national-electricity-market-nem/data-nem/data-dashboard-nem)

PS I do not click on links often at present. With OPTUS and Medibank hacks likely via links opened by their staff I hear!:bat:

In the link........... @ 8.16pm............ QLD $197 /mW, NSW $163, SA $9, Vic $9.

That's a big, big difference, but the wind is blowing.

cheers, DL

[350RRC]

@ 2200hrs............QLD and NSW both over $200 / mW, Vic and SA both $0 /mW.

Details here :

ELJM: NEM Regional Generation Summary (http://nemlog.com.au/gen/region/)

The RRP column means 'representative regional price' per mW.

Site updates every 5 mins, in line with the national market.

Callide still out of action. [bigwhistle]

DL

[Graeme]

mW - maybe MW?

[DiscoMick]

I'm interested in adding a battery to our solar, but haven't found the right deal yet.

[Saitch]

I'm interested in adding a battery to our solar, but haven't found the right deal yet.

Mike, for your consideration.
This is by a person in my locality, posted on a community forum. (Original errors included)


" Thinking about buying a Tesla battery through AGL?
Little bit of smoke and mirrors how they sell you the concept.
I was all for it as it was going to be finaced interest free for five years at $221.00 per month.
I was told the power collected in the battery together with my solar panels supplying house power during the day would mean I could expect to be in credit monthly. Sounds good?
Now here’s what they don’t tell youhttps://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/tdd/1.5/16/1f92e.pnghttps://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/tdd/1.5/16/1f92e.png
The battery and solar panels supply power to your house(but not to your electric hot water system which is on a seperate meter.
So last months bill. $221.00 for battery and $153.00 for grid supplied power to our hot water system.
caveat Emptor!!
A bit dishonest really. AGL are happy to sell you the battery, they do however still want to derive an income from your power usage. The net result is I am exporting lots of kws to the grid for 15c per kw at the moment, but having to buy my power back for my hot water system at twice the price I am selling it for.
Think about it? "

[steveG]

Saitch - is there a reason you can’t power your hot water from the solar during the day?
That would seem the obvious solution and save you a heap of $$$

Edit: sorry - just RE-read your post and it’s not you that had the issue.

Steve

[Saitch]

Saitch - is there a reason you can’t power your hot water from the solar during the day?
That would seem the obvious solution and save you a heap of $$$

Edit: sorry - just RE-read your post and it’s not you that had the issue.

Steve

Funny that you mentioned that! [biggrin]

I have programmed our h/w to power off the solar from 0930 to 1130. It's a large system and we have had no issues over the 18 months we have had the solar installed.
I just did a little test and with the h/w, dishwasher and electric jug on, we're only using 5.8kW, so still exporting 3+ kW to grid.[thumbsupbig]

[Vern]

I'm interested in adding a battery to our solar, but haven't found the right deal yet.And you will probably struggle, they keep going up in price. We mainly only do the Tesla Powerwall, it's the best we have found, but once our current stock runs out, the price is going up to around $19k installed with the gateway! Our install cost and small profit margin hasn't changed, price increase come from Tesla themselves.

[DoubleChevron]

Mike, for your consideration.
This is by a person in my locality, posted on a community forum. (Original errors included)


" Thinking about buying a Tesla battery through AGL?
Little bit of smoke and mirrors how they sell you the concept.
I was all for it as it was going to be finaced interest free for five years at $221.00 per month.
I was told the power collected in the battery together with my solar panels supplying house power during the day would mean I could expect to be in credit monthly. Sounds good?
Now here’s what they don’t tell youhttps://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/tdd/1.5/16/1f92e.pnghttps://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/tdd/1.5/16/1f92e.png
The battery and solar panels supply power to your house(but not to your electric hot water system which is on a seperate meter.
So last months bill. $221.00 for battery and $153.00 for grid supplied power to our hot water system.
caveat Emptor!!
A bit dishonest really. AGL are happy to sell you the battery, they do however still want to derive an income from your power usage. The net result is I am exporting lots of kws to the grid for 15c per kw at the moment, but having to buy my power back for my hot water system at twice the price I am selling it for.
Think about it? "

I rencently got a free heat pump hot water service through the government scheme. If you're heating with offpeak hotwater you should be eligible for a free "on peak" heat pump HWS.

[Vern]

I rencently got a free heat pump hot water service through the government scheme. If you're heating with offpeak hotwater you should be eligible for a free "on peak" heat pump HWS.Depends what state you are in though

[Loading...]

Mike, for your consideration.
This is by a person in my locality, posted on a community forum. (Original errors included)


" Thinking about buying a Tesla battery through AGL?
Little bit of smoke and mirrors how they sell you the concept.
I was all for it as it was going to be finaced interest free for five years at $221.00 per month.
I was told the power collected in the battery together with my solar panels supplying house power during the day would mean I could expect to be in credit monthly. Sounds good?
Now here’s what they don’t tell youhttps://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/tdd/1.5/16/1f92e.pnghttps://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/tdd/1.5/16/1f92e.png
The battery and solar panels supply power to your house(but not to your electric hot water system which is on a seperate meter.
So last months bill. $221.00 for battery and $153.00 for grid supplied power to our hot water system.
caveat Emptor!!
A bit dishonest really. AGL are happy to sell you the battery, they do however still want to derive an income from your power usage. The net result is I am exporting lots of kws to the grid for 15c per kw at the moment, but having to buy my power back for my hot water system at twice the price I am selling it for.
Think about it? "
I'm not so sure about this, my Tesla Powerwall certainly discharges when the electric hot water system is in use. We have the EHWS as well as induction cooking and a fully charged powerwall will go down about 70% after dinner and the round of showers.

We only had it installed in March so missed the peak summer months, but even through the dreary winter our bill was about $50 a month, most of that is in the $1.53 a day supply charge.

[JDNSW]

Interestingly, my son installed a battery in his house only a fortnight ago. One of the more interesting results of this is now his whole family follows and is interested in where their power is used, and is minimising grid power as far as possible - he tells me that they have used virtually no grid power since the battery was installed, and have fed power into the grid on most days.

(For interest, I have been entirely off grid for almost thirty years.)

[DiscoMick]

Thanks, but our system was recently reconfigured with a box of tricks which ONLY heats the electric hot water when there is surplus rooftop solar above what the house demands. There is a manual override but I've only used it once. We do have a separate circuit for off-peak but never use it.
I was referring in my comment above to deals for installing batteries.
However home batteries might become unnecessary if the trend to numerous community batteries results in them being installed in local sub-stations
The federal budget contained funds for 400 community batteries, which is just a start. Governments seem to have decided it makes more sense to fund community batteries than to subsidise batteries for each premises.
Mike, for your consideration.
This is by a person in my locality, posted on a community forum. (Original errors included)


" Thinking about buying a Tesla battery through AGL?
Little bit of smoke and mirrors how they sell you the concept.
I was all for it as it was going to be finaced interest free for five years at $221.00 per month.
I was told the power collected in the battery together with my solar panels supplying house power during the day would mean I could expect to be in credit monthly. Sounds good?
Now here’s what they don’t tell youhttps://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/tdd/1.5/16/1f92e.pnghttps://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/tdd/1.5/16/1f92e.png
The battery and solar panels supply power to your house(but not to your electric hot water system which is on a seperate meter.
So last months bill. $221.00 for battery and $153.00 for grid supplied power to our hot water system.
caveat Emptor!!
A bit dishonest really. AGL are happy to sell you the battery, they do however still want to derive an income from your power usage. The net result is I am exporting lots of kws to the grid for 15c per kw at the moment, but having to buy my power back for my hot water system at twice the price I am selling it for.
Think about it? "

[Graeme]

In overcast conditions I allow my HWS to use a little from the grid to avoid having to run it totally from the grid overnight.

[ramblingboy42]

Graeme, do you have some sort of switching that allows you to take "a little from the grid"?

[Graeme]

We have a Fronius inverter with a load meter on the grid supply. Included load management software that runs under Windows has a parameter to switch on the load and another to switch it off. My normal non-summer on/off values are feed-in 4000W / feed-in 500W but on cloudy days I change those to feed-in 3000 / consumption 500 or occasionally feed-in 2500 / consumption 1000, thus allowing use of some grid power. Summer values are feed-in 5000 / feed-in 1500 to delay switching on so as to maximise early feed-in, considering that we're limited to 5000W.

[simonmelb]

Geez UK are in a spot of bother with power.

Harry is paying 84p per KWh 😳. Up from 11p 2 years ago.

More solar panels get installed plus why New Zealand's proposed carbon tax on cows is wrong - YouTube (https://youtu.be/ZI84cFcF5ew)

[DiscoMick]

Geez that sounds complicated for me. We have a button to be pushed once for one hour grid boost up to 3 times for 3 hours.
We have a Fronius inverter with a load meter on the grid supply. Included load management software that runs under Windows has a parameter to switch on the load and another to switch it off. My normal non-summer on/off values are feed-in 4000W / feed-in 500W but on cloudy days I change those to feed-in 3000 / consumption 500 or occasionally feed-in 2500 / consumption 1000, thus allowing use of some grid power. Summer values are feed-in 5000 / feed-in 1500 to delay switching on so as to maximise early feed-in, considering that we're limited to 5000W.

[Graeme]

The on/off limits are only juggled for successive days of overcast weather, left alone at other times. The tool also has the option for a minimum daily on time prior to midnight to switch on for a catch-up, which I occasionally set. I also have a seperate time switch to turn on in off-peak time but its not used, only there as a backup in case the inverter fails.

[goingbush]

more than happy with AGL Solarsavers plan
I have 2kw on house and 3kw on shed with 2 inverters, one faces NE other NW . makes most of morning through to afternoon sun.

To maximise solar FIT I recently started to use washing machine / dryer and charge Landy at night.
The Pool bloke dosen't like the idea but I also switched the pool pump from filtering during the day to night.

Even last month with all the crap weather the solar gave us a credit , this includes daily driving the EV Landy.

181672

[Graeme]

AGL only gives me $0.12 on their Solarsaver plan not $0.70 so my Oct 590 kWh feed-in only earnt $71.

[goingbush]

AGL only gives me $0.12 on their Solarsaver plan not $0.70 so my Oct 590 kWh feed-in only earnt $71.

Why is that, I don't know why we are getting $0.70 but I'll take it.
I also voluntarily pay the 'Carbon Neutral Contribution', probably a scam but I feel I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't

If I only got $0.12 I'd install batteries & switch to an off peak plan.

[Graeme]

Possibly NSW vs Vic, but more likely your quite early original agreement.

$70-$100 a month is just enough to prevent me from stopping feed-in altogether so that they have to buy it at normal supply rates. I wouldn't change to their lowest charge rate plan unless I stopped feed-in because I'd get almost nothing for feed-in, not that I get much now.

$20K to add a battery would take a long time to recoup.

[Vern]

Why is that, I don't know why we are getting $0.70 but I'll take it.
I also voluntarily pay the 'Carbon Neutral Contribution', probably a scam but I feel I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't

If I only got $0.12 I'd install batteries & switch to an off peak plan.
.70 could be a stuff up on their behalf, I have never heard of a plan being so high, ever. These days .20 is a good deal.
I'd keep quiet about that one.

[goingbush]

.70 could be a stuff up on their behalf, I have never heard of a plan being so high, ever. These days .20 is a good deal.
I'd keep quiet about that one.

I only just switched to this plan & is a new account with AGL due to a subscriber name change, we were on $0.80 when we had the second solar installed on the shed roof & the installer said no one is that 'honeymoon deal' anymore, and advised when the inspector comes to check it for feed in that we would lose the high FIT , but it never changed & only just dropped to 0.70 a few months ago, which is ok because the buy price is cheaper too, So I'm not complaining.

[Vern]

I only just switched to this plan & is a new account with AGL due to a subscriber name change, we were on $0.80 when we had the second solar installed on the shed roof & the installer said no one is that 'honeymoon deal' anymore, and advised when the inspector comes to check it for feed in that we would lose the high FIT , but it never changed & only just dropped to 0.70 a few months ago, which is ok because the buy price is cheaper too, So I'm not complaining.I'm in the Solar game, and have never heard of this. I will mention this to our sales team tomorrow and see if they know what's going on.

[Graeme]

I can't get 20c from any retailer for where I am AFAIK. I used to get 21c until Origin dropped it to 10c so I swapped to AGL for their 12c.

[Vern]

I can't get 20c from any retailer for where I am AFAIK. I used to get 21c until Origin dropped it to 10c so I swapped to AGL for their 12c.We have had feed back from a few customers lately that have managed to get 20c fit, it's turns out they had all called up at around 10am, this must be something to do with where the calls go, if it be local or overseas.

[Graeme]

Just as well that I checked as for the last 2 days since my agreement expired the FIT has only been 5c. Unfortunately now only 10c and all usage charges have increased. Time to check that this plan is actually better for me than their cheapest plan with almost zero FIT.

The retailers must be making a packet from such low FIT then reselling at over 40c. I wonder why the ACCC hasn't had a hard look at them.

[Saitch]

I wonder why the ACCC hasn't had a hard look at them.

...........and do something? :Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

[Graeme]

So my hearing of what the woman said wasn't quite correct, in that a heard 40 kWh daily feed-in limit at the 10c rate was only 14 kWh, averaged over the billing period, thereafter reducing to 5c.

[350RRC]

So my hearing of what the woman said wasn't quite correct, in that a heard 40 kWh daily feed-in limit at the 10c rate was only 14 kWh, averaged over the billing period, thereafter reducing to 5c.

I had some serious trouble hearing what a call centre tech woman was saying recently (9am AEDT), partly because her roosters were crowing in the background.

DL

[SBD4]

I am with AGL and installed solar on 6.9.22. When The smart meter was installed I was moved on to the AGL Basics plan then from that to the AGL Value Saver plan when solar was activated.

I was going to change over to the AGL Solar Savers plan but decided to wait so I could get some history on usage. I am not sure how much of a saving going to the Solar Savers plan would be given that all tariffs service charges are about 6% more expensive that what I am on now (demand tariffs are the same) for a maximum of 70c a day extra FIT. Not sure where AGL see the savings for the solar power generator.

The saving grace for AGL here is the significant on time payment discount of about 13% on the total bill.

.... and GB, you're definitely on a good wicket, that FIT is from sometime in the middle of the last decade, you lucky bugger. My advice is to never query your bill[bigwhistle]

BTW the system we installed is just under 10kW. best day so far saw an output of over 64kWh(50kWh exported). I am now, strangely[bighmmm], very interested in advancements in battery tech which will hopefully see a better value proposition from an environmental, longevity and ..... financial perspective.

[Graeme]

Are you export limited? Essential Energy only allowed us 5kW so our 8kW system, which can get to 8.3kW, is often throttled. AGL allows us 10kW.

I'll be keeping an eye on plans around April when our feed-in averages not very far above 14kW.

[SBD4]

Are you export limited? Essential Energy only allowed us 5kW so our 8kW system, which can get to 8.3kW, is often throttled. AGL allows us 10kW.

I'll be keeping an eye on plans around April when our feed-in averages not very far above 14kW.

No, not to my understanding Graeme. Being in the Sydney basin we are on the Ausgrid network which allows 10 kW per phase, my system is just under that. The highest peak power so far is 9.3kW, the peak power on the day we generated 64kWh was 8.4kW.

[Vern]

I am with AGL and installed solar on 6.9.22. When The smart meter was installed I was moved on to the AGL Basics plan then from that to the AGL Value Saver plan when solar was activated.

I was going to change over to the AGL Solar Savers plan but decided to wait so I could get some history on usage. I am not sure how much of a saving going to the Solar Savers plan would be given that all tariffs service charges are about 6% more expensive that what I am on now (demand tariffs are the same) for a maximum of 70c a day extra FIT. Not sure where AGL see the savings for the solar power generator.

The saving grace for AGL here is the significant on time payment discount of about 13% on the total bill.

.... and GB, you're definitely on a good wicket, that FIT is from sometime in the middle of the last decade, you lucky bugger. My advice is to never query your bill[bigwhistle]

BTW the system we installed is just under 10kW. best day so far saw an output of over 64kWh(50kWh exported). I am now, strangely[bighmmm], very interested in advancements in battery tech which will hopefully see a better value proposition from an environmental, longevity and ..... financial perspective.ROI for batteries is terrible, can't say we have ever sold a battery for ROI reasons, all have been for grid supply issues, money to burn, wasted excess pv generation to the grid, or **** factor! Hey, I got a Tesla[emoji1]

[Tombie]

ROI for batteries is terrible, can't say we have ever sold a battery for ROI reasons, all have been for grid supply issues, money to burn, wasted excess pv generation to the grid, or **** factor! Hey, I got a Tesla[emoji1]

That was what we found when looking at battery systems.

The ROI exceeds the projected lifespan of the batteries in our application.

Instead a couple of EU22i and a changeover switch gives us power security during those events. (We keep plenty of fuel and cycle it out regularly to keep it fresh).

[NavyDiver]

ROI on batteries is bad -Unless your in South OZ perhaps in some business sectors? [bigwhistle][bigwhistle][bigwhistle]

Poor sods in some ares having a long black out now!

Dinner by candle light is nice of course[biggrin]

[JDNSW]

Cold dinner, followed by a cold shower?

[NavyDiver]

Cold dinner, followed by a cold shower?

BBQ I hope for some

[NavyDiver]

Just had a quick look at the panels above my house- If I did it again it would be at least 15% more panels than inverter! Inverter and panels are 5kw (5.2 really) and I would have 10kw+ of panels and inverter.

181973

The are much better in Nov- March here. Cool and sunny is best of course. The 6000kWh year in and year out is mostly used by me. All of it in Winter Some spare in summer is exported. Screen shot below shows this very clearly.


181975


Still Looking for way to use my spare home power at work. The 'community Battery model' seem to allow this. Google is not my friend on this topic. 'transfer solar power between houses' is not a big hit for what I am looking for. [bighmmm]

Honestly I would be very happy to pay others exporting solar power for their excess as well. Might be of interest with those with feed in tariffs like my 6 cents [bigrolf]

My work system is almost the same - Home panels are laid flat. Work is on a optimal slant. There is not a big difference.

If you assume .36 cents grid price per kWh, or much higher soon, its about $2000+ per year of power. 6 years (first was part year only) I think systems were about $5000 each installed. Given I expect 20 + years from them the maths is pretty clear

[goingbush]

I'm in the Solar game, and have never heard of this. I will mention this to our sales team tomorrow and see if they know what's going on.

regarding my $0.70 FIT, I did a bit of digging and found our premises is one of the 88,000 Victorian properties on the PremiumFIT , Previous owner must have negotiated it. Looks like its around till 2024 .

Solar premium feed-in tariff (https://www.energy.vic.gov.au/for-households/solar-premium-feed-in-tariff)

[NavyDiver]

In Coming $$$$$

"Regulated power prices set to surge 'at least 20 per cent' this winter as energy bill reprieve ends" Regulated power prices set to surge '''at least 20 per cent''' this winter as energy bill reprieve ends - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-08/benchmark-power-prices-set-to-surge-more-than-20-per-cent/102056568)

The delay has been nice- Taxpayer funded of course[bawl]

The Kicker is home and business prices so this will hurt possibly like interest rates increases for many.

I have tried and failed to get my sparky to spend a little time to move my current 5kWh systems and put a 10kWh system at work. [bighmmm]


Home since mid 2016 is a total of 43.462 mWh total. I use almost all Solar at work but give away far to much at home still.

[Tombie]

92,177 mWh here [emoji41]

That’s since 2012

I do need to clean my panels though! Bit down on output at the moment.

[biggin]

They must be filthy if that’s all they could manage.

[Homestar]

They must be filthy if that’s all they could manage.

That’s about 23KWh a day - about double the power our house uses each day. I think I’d be happy with that myself.

[1950landy]

I have found one of the hidden costs of Solar Power is replacement cost of components. We have two sets of panels on our roof. The 1st was installed using the Gov discount scheme, the inverter had to be replaced under warranty & we now find we will need to replace this one as it has now failed. The second lot of solar panels which we paid full price for the inverter failed 6 months out of warranty at a cost of around $1500. We were told by the people who installed this inverter they only have around a 5 year life, not sure if this is true though. Now going back to the one that has failed now, I have been ringing around all the Solar Companies & a lot are no longer in business & those that are still in business none of them want to just replace the inverter & only install new systems at a cost of around $10,000.
We use all the power we make running ducted A/C & pool pump & air pump hot water system that starts up every time we turn on a hot water tap. For me comparing our electricity account before & after solar there not that big a difference & I am thinking is it really worth it if we are going to be up for this sort of cost every 5 years.
In the meantime, I spoke with my electrician & he is going to supply & fit the new inverter for me.

[NavyDiver]

Email just came in. This could be in GRUMPY Thread!!

"Here’s what you need to know
We estimate you'll pay $1534* more over the first 12 months after the new rates take effect. Keep in mind that this is an estimate only based on a calculation required by energy regulations. Your actual energy costs may be significantly different if your usage or energy plan changes during this time.

Your solar feed-in tariff will be decreasing at the same time"

Thats right Pay over 1000 per year more and get les for the same electron that flow out if I do not use them.:bat::bat::bat:

I think I have made about 42000Kwh of solar at home and used a lot. I assume I have made more at work over the last 7 years and used almost all except on Sunday. Its about $28,000 of power saved assuming cost $0.34 per kWh. Fully appreciate exports is a few cents only (or less Now :rulez::rulez::rulez: )


Rather than get grumpy I jsut spoke with my very cool sparky. Every millimeter of solar I can fit is in bound asap The big Australian electrical company is not really the focus of my grump. I am grumpy with me for not adding more earlier. Both solar set ups cost well under 10K Pay back at work was clearly better and faster than homes on. I have never made money from the export anyway[thumbsupbig]

[Roverlord off road spares]

Mario looked in to solar for us when he was here, and had contacted a few solar people and they looked at our house, and because the stupid guy next door to us had put in a tree right up against the fence and the tree grew over our house. when the companies looked at it on goggle they said that because of the shading of the roof it would cost more as we would have to get a booster. So we never took it any further. Any way the guy took out that tree last year because he could stand the mess it made when it dropped leaves in winter. And now there is only me I really don't use much power and my age I would make the money back, Heather

[Homestar]

I have found one of the hidden costs of Solar Power is replacement cost of components. We have two sets of panels on our roof. The 1st was installed using the Gov discount scheme, the inverter had to be replaced under warranty & we now find we will need to replace this one as it has now failed. The second lot of solar panels which we paid full price for the inverter failed 6 months out of warranty at a cost of around $1500. We were told by the people who installed this inverter they only have around a 5 year life, not sure if this is true though. Now going back to the one that has failed now, I have been ringing around all the Solar Companies & a lot are no longer in business & those that are still in business none of them want to just replace the inverter & only install new systems at a cost of around $10,000.
We use all the power we make running ducted A/C & pool pump & air pump hot water system that starts up every time we turn on a hot water tap. For me comparing our electricity account before & after solar there not that big a difference & I am thinking is it really worth it if we are going to be up for this sort of cost every 5 years.
In the meantime, I spoke with my electrician & he is going to supply & fit the new inverter for me.

Decent inverters will last for decades. FIL's Sunnyboy Inverter is back from the very early days of Solar and still going fine and old Selectronic Inverters have been around for decades and still doing their thing 24/7/365 without issues. The problem is the huge glut of installers out there feeding off the Government rebates and buying the cheapest ****tiest equipment they can find to maximise profits.

[Tombie]

Yes. My Sunnyboy and panels are still behaving.
Panels are still putting out close the original output too.

They will be upgraded soon through, and more added.

[Homestar]

My problem at the moment is that I can’t find anyone to install a system to my requirements. I tel them what panels and inverter I want and I get silence or ‘We can’t do those but we have brand x that is just as good…’

Then they pester me for months afterwards asking if you want to go ahead.

I have had to be less than polite to 2 different companies that just wouldn’t take no for an answer.

It irks me no end that I can do the installation myself but can’t get the rebate if I do this due to how the wiring rules in Vic are enforced.

I’m a Licensed Electrician but don’t hold an REC so I can do my own work no dramas, legal etc as I’m not contracting for profit or gain, but that means I can’t get a rebate as I can’t sign off on the work (that I don’t need to when I do it myself) so I have to pay some other spanker to do it… 🤬

[scarry]

Decent inverters will last for decades. FIL's Sunnyboy Inverter is back from the very early days of Solar and still going fine and old Selectronic Inverters have been around for decades and still doing their thing 24/7/365 without issues. The problem is the huge glut of installers out there feeding off the Government rebates and buying the cheapest ****tiest equipment they can find to maximise profits.

Most of the reputable gear has a 10yr warranty anyway.

Yes,once the Govt gets involved in anything,particularly rebates for whatever,it usually ends up a big **** up.

[austastar]

Hi,

so I have to pay some other spanker to do it…
So frustrating, my son has had to redo numerous stuffups by a plumber paid 3x his wage cause he needed a bloke with the right piece of paper.
Cheers

[johnp38]

I’m a Licensed Electrician but don’t hold an REC so I can do my own work no dramas, legal etc as I’m not contracting for profit or gain, but that means I can’t get a rebate as I can’t sign off on the work (that I don’t need to when I do it myself) so I have to pay some other spanker to do it… 🤬

Why not used panels and the new inverter that you want?

The rebates are for the panels only so at least you can have the system up and running. You don't need to be CEC certified/signed off then as you are not claiming RECs on the panels.

Being a qualified sparky you can sign off on the electrical safety COC which is all you need to connect to grid and then be able to get a feed in tariff from your retailer.


Too hard getting someone to sign off that is CEC accredited to get the rebates on the panels, as then they are also taking responsibility AND LIABILITY for YOUR electrical work.

At least this way you get it up and running.

EDIT: I am in SA and not currently installing so may be rusty on rules

[p38arover]

We have two solar systems (3.4kW and 3.06kW). The first went in back when we were getting 68c/kWh. Even though it cost $10k, it paid for itself very quickly. We had an interest-free Green Loan for that. However, it also had 3 inverter failures over less than ten years. When we had an additional system added, it was just after the third failure so we had the inverter changed to the same as the new system.

The feed-in tariff is now only 5 cents so it would be hardly worthwhile installing solar if one doesn’t use the power. We do because we have ducted aircon. We use gas for the cooktop and for hot water (Rinnai instantaneous).

However, we have just received an email from AGL showing the new tariff. It has risen from 36 cents to 46 cents.

Current rates

Electricity usage____Unit____GST excl.____GST incl.
General Usage______c/kWh___33.42000____36.762000
Feed-in tariff_______c/kWh____5.00000
Supply charge______c/day____92.82000____102.102000

New rates
Effective 1 July 2023

Electricity usage___Unit_____GST excl.___GST incl.
General Usage______c/kWh____42.32000___46.552000
Feed-in tariff_______c/kWh_____5.00000
Supply charge______c/day_____98.51000___108.361000

[Tombie]

Our FIT hasn’t improved ($0.52/kWh) however the bastards just raised of buy in rate by $0.10/kWh.

That now pushes my system to the limit of break even, likely tips it over into having to start paying again.

Time to level up, more panels, 3 phase and additional inverters and look to alternatives.

Love this free market, where things are supposed to be cheaper for the consumer! Thieving ****** - Wholesale price actually has gone down.

[p38arover]

Our FIT hasn’t improved ($0.52/kWh) however the bastards just raised of buy in rate by $0.10/kWh.


I'm confused. A FIT of 52c/kWh is damn good and 10 times what we get.

[4bee]

Our FIT hasn’t improved ($0.52/kWh) however the bastards just raised of buy in rate by $0.10/kWh.

That now pushes my system to the limit of break even, likely tips it over into having to start paying again.

Time to level up, more panels, 3 phase and additional inverters and look to alternatives.

Love this free market, where things are supposed to be cheaper for the consumer! Thieving ****** - Wholesale price actually has gone down.


Sadly, increases were always going to happen due the companies maintaining the "Bottom Line" & to keep Shareholders happy.


Who ever thought or never considered this that wouldn't occur was a bit thick.

They were not going to give away such a lucrative market & stay in business.



Digital Meters made it easier for them by "inadvertently" hitting a few extra buttons now & then, all over Australia at billing time..

As Tombie said "Thieving bastards"

[Graeme]

Many years ago a credit union manager said that operating a credit union was a licence to print money. Electricity retailers are many times worse.

[austastar]

Hi,
Haven't had a power bill in 10 years after spending $7k on panels.
A recent failure of our wood fired range meant we now use grid power for hot water and heating, with gas for cooking.
The $3k credit we had built up is now being eroded albeit slowly.
I hope to slow it further by using 'time of use tariff with some timers and storage heaters.
If we ever build again, it will be off grid!
Cheers

[Homestar]

Why not used panels and the new inverter that you want?

The rebates are for the panels only so at least you can have the system up and running. You don't need to be CEC certified/signed off then as you are not claiming RECs on the panels.

Being a qualified sparky you can sign off on the electrical safety COC which is all you need to connect to grid and then be able to get a feed in tariff from your retailer.


Too hard getting someone to sign off that is CEC accredited to get the rebates on the panels, as then they are also taking responsibility AND LIABILITY for YOUR electrical work.

At least this way you get it up and running.

EDIT: I am in SA and not currently installing so may be rusty on rules

Worth looking into - thanks for the idea. One of my issues is that we don’t use lots of power but given my Partner works from home we can load shift most things to the day to get the most from the panels. Also I’m not going to be at this house forever so I don’t want to over capitalise and not see any benefit long term, so it’s a bit tricky. The rebate would help offset this but second hand panels might also do this.

Time for more research. [emoji16]

[johnp38]

Our FIT hasn’t improved ($0.52/kWh) however the bastards just raised of buy in rate by $0.10/kWh.

That now pushes my system to the limit of break even, likely tips it over into having to start paying again.

Time to level up, more panels, 3 phase and additional inverters and look to alternatives.

Love this free market, where things are supposed to be cheaper for the consumer! Thieving ****** - Wholesale price actually has gone down.

You will lose the 44 cents SAPOWER part of your total FIT (I am only guessing here, that with such a high FIT you got in early when it was available) that you have till 2028 and drop to your retailer FIT only, if you alter your system.

So your only option to keep current generous FIT is more panels unofficially, so no claiming REC on panels and no upgrading system to more inverters, or you will lose the 44 cents part and have to rejig system to current standards.

I am pretty sure if you add a new separate system the current one stays to old standards and only new one complies with current standards, but you will need a meter isolator installed if one is not already in there, and still lose the 44c FIT.

You need a CEC registered sparky who is accredited for install AND design, as they are more cluey on rules and (if they want to tell you) workarounds to achieve your aims and keep everything electrically kosher.

[Tombie]

Yes, when I looked into it it was a grey area.
If I keep current system on current meter I get the large FIT.

I tested if we could go 3 phase, have another meter added and isolate house from current phase.

It was “potentially” possible.

Our other thinking is keep current system as feed-in.
Fit another full system including storage to house and then isolate house from grid totally.

[Tote]

the world was warned and you called these people "greenies" with a sneer on your face.

now you are all whingeing and complaining , expecting someone else to be your saviour.....one bloke supposedly tried that and failed.

Except the 20 -25% electricity price rises that we are facing are apparently caused by a war on the other side of the world that is driving gas prices up. Seems as clear as how petrol prices are set to me and has more to do with international profit taking and less to do with any environmental crisis.

Having said that I'm considering the "how to put solar panels on a heritage listed address" problem. They would go on the modern shed we have at the back of the house so hopefully not too much of an issue.

Regards,
Tote

[Tombie]

the world was warned and you called these people "greenies" with a sneer on your face.

now you are all whingeing and complaining , expecting someone else to be your saviour.....one bloke supposedly tried that and failed.

Blokes on clouds seem to only be useful retrospectively.

Greenies have no long term useful policies and would have the global population living back in caves in no time.

Currently this global push for renewables, is driving economic growth and having no benefit to the environment as all that is happening is lower emissions ratios and ever higher production rates…

The global greed however is equally strong and driving record profits at the detriment of the people. Utilities are basics, shouldn’t be for profit, they should be for the people.

Hang on, they were.. until an inept government had to sell them to pay off huge debts they accrued.

[4bee]

Except the 20 -25% electricity price rises that we are facing are apparently caused by a war on the other side of the world that is driving gas prices up. Seems as clear as how petrol prices are set to me and has more to do with international profit taking and less to do with any environmental crisis.

Having said that I'm considering the "how to put solar panels on a heritage listed address" problem. They would go on the modern shed we have at the back of the house so hopefully not too much of an issue.

Regards,
Tote

No doubt you have double checked that but yonks ago (in SA)when we first looked into SOLAR we wanted the panels on our big shed roof about 80' from the house & Consumer Switch Board.
Power was already at the shed.


"NO No No you can't do that" "they"said loudly. Things change with this noo fangled electrickery stuff it seemed & so it did. [bigsad][bigsad]Not long after, I started to see panels on even old sheds everywhere here. We eventually were able to locate them on the house proper but not as many panels as we would have liked if they could have been placed on the shed, but it suffices.

[Tote]

SWMBO has school holidays coming up next week, she's going to do the rounds to see what Council say and maybe talk to a couple of installers. The shed has power on and is about 25m from the back of the house. Approval to build the shed in the first place wasn't too bad so hopefully it wont be a problem with the panels. The house would be a nightmare to put panels on though with a 30 degree pitched roof .

Regards,
Tote

[1950landy]

We had two solar systems on our house, the 1st a 1.6Kwwas installed 2010 the 2nd a 3Kw in 2012. The 1st had had two new inverters installed& 2nd was on its 2nd inverter as well. the inverter on the 1st system failed again earlier this year & I could not get any one to install a new inverter due to the fact they all said they would have to sign off on all work done by previous installers & none were prepared to do that & would only replace the whole system. With ducted A/C a pool with a solar heater that had to run during the day & a Heat Pump hot water system that could not be run at night & every time we turned on the hot water tap it started & ran for about 1/2hr we were using all the power we were making from the sun so no feed into the grid. After talking with a few people, we opted to remove booth systems & replace them with a 13.3Kw system. The plan was the 3Kw system was to be installed on our daughter's house but then we found we could not find anyone that would do this work, so we now have a full 3 Kw system here that has a inverter that is less than a year old & the panels off the 1.6Kw. Talking with the guys who installed the new system, I should be able to sell the 3Kw system to a farmer to install on a shed feeding into batteries to power the shed. With the 1.6Kw I could only find very expensive new inverters or reconditioned ones that only had a 3-month warranty.
The 13.3 Kw system shows that we are using half the power we are making & half is being fed into the grid.
We received a letter from our provider the other day showing the new increased chargers for electricity & solar meter charges but no increase in what they are paying for what we feed, I feel that if they are selling the power, we make at an increase profit there should be an increase in what they are buying it off us.
Well that's my rant for the day.

[Tombie]

No doubt you have double checked that but yonks ago (in SA)when we first looked into SOLAR we wanted the panels on our big shed roof about 80' from the house & Consumer Switch Board.
Power was already at the shed.


"NO No No you can't do that" "they"said loudly. Things change with this noo fangled electrickery stuff it seemed & so it did. [bigsad][bigsad]Not long after, I started to see panels on even old sheds everywhere here. We eventually were able to locate them on the house proper but not as many panels as we would have liked if they could have been placed on the shed, but it suffices.

Our system was early in the solar scheme and planned for our North facing shed.

They had no issues at all with it.

Sounds like some engineer being a tosser in your case!

[JDNSW]

When our solar system was installed 25 years ago, there was a proposal, came in after ours, that the government subsidy (can't remember whether it was state or federal) would only be available if the panels were installed on the house they were supplying. While I don't think this still applies, I suspect this may be where the idea came from.

[4bee]

Our system was early in the solar scheme and planned for our North facing shed.

They had no issues at all with it.

Sounds like some engineer being a tosser in your case!

Thought as much, as I seem to attract the tossers. (Not you Mike, SAPN[biggrin])

First was the SALES GUY then SAPN so went with the next one that made sense.


JD. probably right I think there was quite a lot of horse **** back then being spouted.

[johnp38]

Thought as much, as I seem to attract the tossers. (Not you Mike, SAPN[biggrin])

First was the SALES GUY then SAPN so went with the next one that made sense.


JD. probably right I think there was quite a lot of horse **** back then being spouted.

And make sure if you can have 10kw per phase (or whatever your max allowable is) you/your installer applied for it not the size of your system if it is smaller (much easier to expand to your max approved later).

And if you are installing a used system you don't need a CEC accredited anybody, just the installing sparky to sign off that it is electrically safe and done to the networks current solar installation requirements.

CEC accreditation is only for claiming government subsidies.

The subsidies are for panels not inverters, CEC limits how much you can oversize your array and still be eligible for STCertificates.

If you build a system with used parts you can oversize the array far more and get more usable output early morning and late arvo.

There is STILL a lot of horse **** being spouted, by sales people AND independant sparky/installers.

[RANDLOVER]

No doubt you have double checked that but yonks ago (in SA)when we first looked into SOLAR we wanted the panels on our big shed roof about 80' from the house & Consumer Switch Board.
Power was already at the shed.


"NO No No you can't do that" "they"said loudly. Things change with this noo fangled electrickery stuff it seemed & so it did. [bigsad][bigsad]Not long after, I started to see panels on even old sheds everywhere here. We eventually were able to locate them on the house proper but not as many panels as we would have liked if they could have been placed on the shed, but it suffices.

Could it be you have 3 phase power, but the house and shed are on different phases? In which case you'd be putting 100% of your solar into the grid and not using any for the house which the power supplier wouldn't like.

[4bee]

Could it be you have 3 phase power, but the house and shed are on different phases? In which case you'd be putting 100% of your solar into the grid and not using any for the house which the power supplier wouldn't like.

Thanks Rand, but no but is has 2phase connected.


Oh, we are using it for Chez Bee without a doubt but thanks for your opinion.

[loanrangie]

I need to move away from our gas ducted money burner to something more efficient and thinking of retaining the ducting at looking at reverse cycle/heat pump system.
Anyone have one or know much about them , i already have an evaporative cooler so really only need the heating function.

[Fattima]

I need to move away from our gas ducted money burner to something more efficient and thinking of retaining the ducting at looking at reverse cycle/heat pump system.
Anyone have one or know much about them , i already have an evaporative cooler so really only need the heating function.
I looked at getting reverse cycle ducted through the current under floor vents. It was a no go, the cost was just not worth it as they could not reuse the ducting.
We ended up with two splits, one down each end of the house and they heat the space well if left on (it is a long narrow house). They don't heat as quickly as the central. A mate of mine who is on bottled gas uses the gas to get some heat in quickly then lets the reverse cycle take over.

[loanrangie]

I looked at getting reverse cycle ducted through the current under floor vents. It was a no go, the cost was just not worth it as they could not reuse the ducting.
We ended up with two splits, one down each end of the house and they heat the space well if left on (it is a long narrow house). They don't heat as quickly as the central. A mate of mine who is on bottled gas uses the gas to get some heat in quickly then lets the reverse cycle take over.

I am looking at a dual head reverse cycle system but thought i would ask, ours is also long and narrow (the area i want to heat).

[scarry]

I am looking at a dual head reverse cycle system but thought i would ask, ours is also long and narrow (the area i want to heat).

If you can go to two single head units,it is the best long term option.

A lot less complicated internally,have a fault with the outdoor,and both indoors will not operate.
Eventually,the whole system will need replacing as parts for units become obsolete pretty quickly.
With two systems,you may have to only replace one.

Sure they should have a 5 yr warranty,but have a gecko make it's way over a PCB,it isn't warranty.
We are struggling to get parts for some 7yr old units now,particularly Pana.
The other brands are hit and miss,and often not worth repairing anyway,due to the cost.

Long and narrow areas generally a unit at each end is the best.
Under floor ducteds have always been a nightmare,possums,snakes,rats,mice and other animals seem to get into the ductwork somehow, and nest,crap everywhere, or die,and also make a huge mess of the insulation.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[loanrangie]

If you can go to two single head units,it is the best long term option.

A lot less complicated internally,have a fault with the outdoor,and both indoors will not operate.
Eventually,the whole system will need replacing as parts for units become obsolete pretty quickly.
With two systems,you may have to only replace one.

Sure they should have a 5 yr warranty,but have a gecko make it's way over a PCB,it isn't warranty.
We are struggling to get parts for some 7yr old units now,particularly Pana.
The other brands are hit and miss,and often not worth repairing anyway,due to the cost.

Long and narrow areas generally a unit at each end is the best.
Under floor ducteds have always been a nightmare,possums,snakes,rats,mice and other animals seem to get into the ductwork somehow, and nest,crap everywhere, or die,and also make a huge mess of the insulation.

Just my 2 cents worth.

2 single units seem to be cheaper than a 2 outlet system which is a big plus, not many animal related issues here in Mexico .

[NavyDiver]

I need to move away from our gas ducted money burner to something more efficient and thinking of retaining the ducting at looking at reverse cycle/heat pump system.
Anyone have one or know much about them , i already have an evaporative cooler so really only need the heating function.

I have 5 sandan heat pumps. Love them and hate them! Via Hydronic heat they heat the house very well and very cheaply WHEN they all turn on at the same time! Sandan removed the warranty for using them for hydronic heating as many installers did not put enough heating capacity which over stressed the heat pumps. Mine are only a bit over worked IF they all do not turn on at the same time!

Hot water for showers.... is never ever a issue! One unit and one tank could do it easily for hot water alone. Right advice and right installer of the right product is the key!!!

Split system are heat pumps anyway! getting the air flow via a few ceiling fans or via a better but expesive to install hvac system?

We were lucky to do it when doing a renovation. It was money well spent as it saves a lot now and has paid for itself buy the savings I make.

It is very interesting to see the EU and UK heat pumps. Seem a LOT bigger and better than available here?

"whirlpool" forum has fairly big chatter about them.

LOTS of Shysters out there including some rubbish heat pumps via a hardware chain I hear [bigwhistle]

[loanrangie]

I have 5 sandan heat pumps. Love them and hate them! Via Hydronic heat they heat the house very well and very cheaply WHEN they all turn on at the same time! Sandan removed the warranty for using them for hydronic heating as many installers did not put enough heating capacity which over stressed the heat pumps. Mine are only a bit over worked IF they all do not turn on at the same time!

Hot water for showers.... is never ever a issue! One unit and one tank could do it easily for hot water alone. Right advice and right installer of the right product is the key!!!

Split system are heat pumps anyway! getting the air flow via a few ceiling fans or via a better but expesive to install hvac system?

We were lucky to do it when doing a renovation. It was money well spent as it saves a lot now and has paid for itself buy the savings I make.

It is very interesting to see the EU and UK heat pumps. Seem a LOT bigger and better than available here?

"whirlpool" forum has fairly big chatter about them.

LOTS of Shysters out there including some rubbish heat pumps via a hardware chain I hear [bigwhistle]

I will be fitting a Mitsubishi Heavy Industries system which ever way i decide, comparing prices and the big green shed is $100 cheaper for the same item so not all bad.

[scarry]

2 single units seem to be cheaper than a 2 outlet system which is a big plus, not many animal related issues here in Mexico .

Yes i forgot to mention about the cost.Single units are just way more popular.

Heat Pump HW systems,i won't go there,only to say they are no where near as reliable or efficient as a Solar HW system,but that would depend on where in the country you live.

We dont target them for work,but have a commercial site with a heap of them,and have fixed every one of them more than once over the last 5 yrs.

[johnp38]

It is very interesting to see the EU and UK heat pumps. Seem a LOT bigger and better than available here?

The size of the outdoor unit (surface area of condenser) has a large part to play in how the aircon can handle let's say -10 celsius outside while still giving you 20 celsius heat inside, or be 50 celsius hot outside and get down to 22 celsius cool inside, that's the basics of it.

I used to do my own split installs (for me n family only) when you could buy them with copper pipe included and still have my ebay vaccuum pump and gauges, still just as useful for gassing car aircons with bbq gas (no arguments pls this is not the thread for it), although hychill is much cleaner as bbq gas is not filtered good.

Bit of digressing there...

[johnp38]

Heat Pump HW systems,i won't go there,only to say they are no where near as reliable or efficient as a Solar HW system,but that would depend on where in the country you live.

186019 I have a 170 litre 'Midea', nah, I never heard of them either. 99bucks installed in 2018 thanks to guvvy subsidies, still going strong.

[1950landy]

When our heat pump HW System dies won't be buying another one, they are too expensive to run compared to our large electric that only heated at night on off peak tariff. Every time we turn on hot water tap it starts & runs for 1/4 to 1/2 hr.

[johnp38]

When our heat pump HW System dies won't be buying another one, they are too expensive to run compared to our large electric that only heated at night on off peak tariff. Every time we turn on hot water tap it starts & runs for 1/4 to 1/2 hr.

You can have a changeover relay installed so it runs on off peak at night and peak during day if you have solar.

The time it runs is irrelevant if you are not measuring how much power it draws while running.

Your old electric element unit simply didn't make a fan noise so you couldn't tell how long it was running. And being on off peak you could easily see the cost compared to your total bill.

Just running the heat pump on your off peak will quickly give you a good comparison, taking into account off peak power pricing now compared to when you had the old element system.

A 3600 watt element old school hot water system draws 15 amps while running, the equivalent heat pump unit draws around 5-6 amps to produce same effective heat.

So to compare you need to run it on off peak only like the previous one or do the maths with real measured power draw if you run it on-peak .

They are cheaper to run when you crunch the numbers and by enough of a margin to justify their use.

On the other hand if they all started falling apart just out of warranty well I don't know how the running costs versus lifespan equation would work out.

The other thing to note is there is a lot of variation between brands regarding their heat pump conversion efficiency and power draw of the compressor/electrics/display etc.

You may have a mediocre unit, but I suspect with some actual electricity consumption readings of just what the heat pump system itself is using when running the cost will be different to your perception.

[austastar]

Hi,
No2 son is off grid and building. His solar will run a 1kW hot water cylinder to pre warm the water before passing through an instant gas tankless heater.
Hopefully gas will only be needed during cloudy winter weather.
Cheers

[NavyDiver]

When our heat pump HW System dies won't be buying another one, they are too expensive to run compared to our large electric that only heated at night on off peak tariff. Every time we turn on hot water tap it starts & runs for 1/4 to 1/2 hr.
Are you sure it doesn't have a timer setting? Mine do.

[1950landy]

Just received our power bill, gone up $800 on last year same period & our usage has not changed in past year, according to the account we used 81% more power in the same 3 months. Sat on phone for 2 Hrs to be told that they hadn't been reading the meter & doing guesstimates & when they installed a Smart Meter, it flagged it up then & they sent me an account for $45 & told me we didn't owe any mor money. I never realized that when we receive our power bill the account is for the previous 3 months so A/C is for Dec to March but we receive the A/C in June so there is no way to check the reading on the account with the meter reading. I always see the meter reader in our street & we always received the bill within the week, the meter is at front of the house, the dog is inside the house & can't get to where the meter box is anyway. I told them it is not my fault that their agent is not doing his job properly & $800 is something we have not budgeted for.
On top of this we received a letter stating they are increasing the charges from the 1st July but not increasing what they pay us for what we are feeding into the grid. May look at how we can run house off our 13.3 Kw Solar during the day & just run off power supply at night when we don't use much power, only a couple of lights & TV. May be even look at Solar Batteries[bighmmm]

[austastar]

Hi,
Friends use solar and a battery to avoid peak time draw from the grid. Cloudy days charge the battery if solar can't, but only at off peak times.
They seem happy with their set up.
Cheers

[scarry]

their agent is not doing his job properly & $800 is something we have not budgeted for.

We just had an elecrticity bill for $1987.90 for three months.

I looked at the meter myself and it was easy to see the mistake.

Same comment from the provider,we are not responsible for a contractors error.

I wonder if the error was actually the contractor.

[1950landy]

We just had an elecrticity bill for $1987.90 for three months.

I looked at the meter myself and it was easy to see the mistake.

Same comment from the provider,we are not responsible for a contractors error.

I wonder if the error was actually the contractor.

Ours was $1,843'45 up from $1,000 & yes that was their response also, they are happy to pay for a contractor to not read the meter & they will just slug me the next time they do read the meter.

[Saitch]

Wow! Seeing some of these power costs is amazing.
We have a 13.2kw system and our power cost has been around $35 per month, since installation, with the last one being $42, due to the increase. I also have the old HWS on a timer, which means it heats from the solar between 0900 to 1130 and we've never been short of hot water, day or night.
We are on tank water, so don't take 10 minute showers, though.

[1950landy]

Wow! Seeing some of these power costs is amazing.
We have a 13.2kw system and our power cost has been around $35 per month, since installation, with the last one being $42, due to the increase. I also have the old HWS on a timer, which means it heats from the solar between 0900 to 1130 and we've never been short of hot water, day or night.
We are on tank water, so don't take 10 minute showers, though.

We had a 13.2 Kw Solar System installed back in March which was just after the Smart meter was installed & reading taken. We will see what our next account will be. I was also talking to the guy next door who works for Ergon about our Heat Pump& he suggested we fit a timer.

[Tombie]

Wow. You’re all heavy power burners!
We run a 5kw system and don’t get bills.

Gas bill gets paid from credits. And it’s sub $100 per quarter

[Saitch]

Wow. You’re all heavy power burners!
We run a 5kw system and don’t get bills.

Gas bill gets paid from credits. And it’s sub $100 per quarter

Because we're on tank water, every time we have water use, we have power use from the pumps.
If you take into account your gas bill, there's not much in it.

[RANDLOVER]

Wow. You’re all heavy power burners!
We run a 5kw system and don’t get bills.

Gas bill gets paid from credits. And it’s sub $100 per quarter

No bills for me either with 5kW, I don't have gas but do have solar hot water, I actually get credits but that is with the good feed in tariff, although the system pro'ly cost 4 times what it'd cost today.

[NavyDiver]

My work bill just showed me something Interesting.


Solar export Time of use Units PriceStandard feed-in tariff
At all times 23.941 kWh $0.0572 $1.36cr
Standard feed-in tariff At all times 1.088 kWh $0.0539 $0.06cr

What is cool is that I used almost all of the Solar power at work[thumbsupbig][thumbsupbig][thumbsupbig][thumbsupbig] I am making over 5 kWh per day (Its winter and cloudy) Some days are well over 10 and others here in Mexico go LOW [bigrolf]

Booking the sparky for coffee and doubling or more the solar on my roof. Every inch possible this time! I had him looking for me for a few weeks now. Rotten sod is to busy[thumbsupbig]

Hold, repurpose or sell the existing panels will be fun to chat about.

[RANDLOVER]

My work bill just showed me something Interesting.


Solar export Time of use Units PriceStandard feed-in tariff
At all times 23.941 kWh $0.0572 $1.36cr
Standard feed-in tariff At all times 1.088 kWh $0.0539 $0.06cr

What is cool is that I used almost all of the Solar power at work[thumbsupbig][thumbsupbig][thumbsupbig][thumbsupbig] I am making over 5 kWh per day (Its winter and cloudy) Some days are well over 10 and others here in Mexico go LOW [bigrolf]

Booking the sparky for coffee and doubling or more the solar on my roof. Every inch possible this time! I had him looking for me for a few weeks now. Rotten sod is to busy[thumbsupbig]

Hold, repurpose or sell the existing panels will be fun to chat about.

Hopefully your present inverter can take two arrays or strings at the new full generation power input, otherwise you might have to get another inverter or an inverter with two arrays to keep old and new panels together as they have to be matched IIRC.

[NavyDiver]

"""In July 21 story, corrects Rinnai's comment to reflect that the proposed standards are not technologically feasible for a certain line of its products instead of technologically impossible for its products, paragraph 7)

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Department of Energy on Friday proposed energy efficiency standards on water heaters it said would save consumers $11.4 billion on energy and water bills annually.
The standards on residential water heater efficiency," https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/companies/us-plans-water-heater-standards-says-they-will-save-consumers-11-billion/ar-AA1elH3Z?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=65e3a7af372b4b048f58394d9f3c1fcf&ei=18

We need or like hot water. My heat pumps are apparently good? My power bill is also[bighmmm]

[Homestar]

Personally I think heat pump water heaters suck and would never have another nor would everyone I know that has had one. Noisy too. There are some extremely good and very efficient gas heaters with condensing and heat recovery tech that are over 90% efficient and produce almost no waste heat which is amazing. Of course the downside is they are over $5,000...

When my current heater goes I will finally put in a solar hot water system but these only have current crappy tech instantaneous gas boosters on them which is still needed in the Winter here - when you need more hot water... [bigwhistle]

[NavyDiver]

Waste not, want notBy allowing customers with excess generation to sell it to those without panels, she says, both sides of the transaction might just end up winning.
"Using the existing poles and wires, people who have excess energy from their rooftop solar can sell it to their neighbour or a local cafe," she says.
"They can get more, hopefully, for that energy that they sell than they otherwise would.
"And the cafe or the neighbour can buy energy at a lower price than their current retail contract."
Landmark trial to enable energy trading between solar homes and those without - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-06-06/no-solar-no-problem-trial-aims-to-overcome-energy-gulf/105377506)
Must be better than the feed in Tarrifs [biggrin]

[Saitch]

Weren't we assured by certain folk, that this wouldn't occur? [biggrin]

• Your electricity rates are increasing, and your solar feed-in tariff will be reduced. These changes will take effect on 1 July 2025 and you’ll find the details in your plan summary

[scarry]

Weren't we assured by certain folk, that this wouldn't occur? [biggrin]

Sure were by a bunch of liars.In fact i can't believe some would think this was not going to happen.[bighmmm]

[scarry]

Wow. You’re all heavy power burners!
We run a 5kw system and don’t get bills.

Gas bill gets paid from credits. And it’s sub $100 per quarter

Luckily you probably don't have 3 kids living at home,and a pool,like our sons do,they certainly go through some power.[smilebigeye]

Our power bill is just over $400 a quarter,and we run the office from here.
The AC in the office is on all day.

To much shade from our trees and the neighbours trees on both sides for solar,probably not worth having it anyway.

[DoubleChevron]

I'm glad we didn't invest much in solar. What a joke, now 0.04c/kwh feed in tariff now .... ridiculous.

[goingbush]

Im in Vic and my electricity has never been cheaper, Im paying a fixed price of $70 a month in advance. ( pay in advance gives a lower rate) and if you bill is less than that it goes into credit. After about 18 months Im $850 in credit (they pay 3% intrest on your credit) , And the plan im on with OVO gives free power between 11am & 2Pm - so thats when I charge the EV.

I have absolutely no incentive to go to batteries & I'm not really fussed that FIT is only 4c .

[loanrangie]

Im in Vic and my electricity has never been cheaper, Im paying a fixed price of $70 a month in advance. ( pay in advance gives a lower rate) and if you bill is less than that it goes into credit. After about 18 months Im $850 in credit (they pay 3% intrest on your credit) , And the plan im on with OVO gives free power between 11am & 2Pm - so thats when I charge the EV.

I have absolutely no incentive to go to batteries & I'm not really fussed that FIT is only 4c .I wish my bill was that cheap, who is your provider?

[DoubleChevron]

Im in Vic and my electricity has never been cheaper, Im paying a fixed price of $70 a month in advance. ( pay in advance gives a lower rate) and if you bill is less than that it goes into credit. After about 18 months Im $850 in credit (they pay 3% intrest on your credit) , And the plan im on with OVO gives free power between 11am & 2Pm - so thats when I charge the EV.

I have absolutely no incentive to go to batteries & I'm not really fussed that FIT is only 4c .

No, not 4 cents kwh ...... that is 100 times more than we are getting paid. 0.04 cents per kwh. an absolutely joke. Unless the government is handing you free tax payer money to install solar, the likelyhood you will save money is very tiny, especially in victoria (particually ballarat) where it is overcast through winter. You would be looking at $10,000+ for a reasonable sized system .... with the only payback being the power you consume (ie: don't buy from the power company). any generated power not used is gifted back to your power company.

$10,000 buys a whole ****load of power. why would anyone bother with solar .... its just like electric cars ... complete nonesense unless we gift a heap of the poor tax payers money to the wealthy that can afford houses and new cars.

[Graeme]

I would prevent feed-in if only getting 0.04 c/kwh if I could devise a way to switch my HWS on and off when adequate/inadequate sunshine, which is currently done when there's enough feed-in to run the HWS. I've recently been dropped from 10c to 5c although the TOU rates dropped slightly.

[goingbush]

I wish my bill was that cheap, who is your provider?

I'm with OVO , the 3 for free plan, I have a pool pump running too between 11and 2 . too ,
heres a link with my ref code
OVO Energy | Loading... (http://www.ovoenergy.com.au/refer/donald1420) if you sign up using the we both get $120 credit.

[jerryd]

Weren't we assured by certain folk, that this wouldn't occur? [biggrin]

• Your electricity rates are increasing, and your solar feed-in tariff will be reduced. These changes will take effect on 1 July 2025 and you’ll find the details in your plan summary

Received a letter this week from AGL saying rises are on the way from July 1st, our bills already average $650 - $1200 depending on the season [bigsad] And that's with 44 cents per kw from solar deducted

I often wonder if I'm paying for my neighbours bill also [bighmmm]

[JDNSW]

I don't have a power bill, just have to replace the batteries every decade or two.

[350RRC]

Received a letter this week from AGL saying rises are on the way from July 1st, our bills already average $650 - $1200 depending on the season [bigsad] And that's with 44 cents per kw from solar deducted

I often wonder if I'm paying for my neighbours bill also [bighmmm]

Do your neighbours work for AGL?

[DoubleChevron]

I don't have a power bill, just have to replace the batteries every decade or two.

its going to be interestng to see how these batteries work out over time ..... If any last long enough without torching off and being recalled that is :) Is the electronics that charges/discharged them ... and disconnects from the mains with outages capable of working for any length of time as well ... hmmm... so many failure points and so much expense.

It will be good to see/hear how it works out for poeple over time (without burnign there house down).

seeya
Shane L.

[RANDLOVER]

its going to be interestng to see how these batteries work out over time ......

We have had battery banks for a long time, going all the way back to the War in submarines and Edison before that, not to mention all the data centres are backed up by battery UPS's. Auto Transfer Switches are also a well established technology for generator back up to the mains, and generators have been able to jump on and off the mains in parallel so in sync, that is with no break in power for at least 30 years, so batteries should be any more troublesome.

[JDNSW]

its going to be interestng to see how these batteries work out over time ..... If any last long enough without torching off and being recalled that is :) Is the electronics that charges/discharged them ... and disconnects from the mains with outages capable of working for any length of time as well ... hmmm... so many failure points and so much expense.

It will be good to see/hear how it works out for poeple over time (without burnign there house down).

seeya
Shane L.

The nearest mains to here is 6km away. Much simpler. System has worked for thirty years except when it was damaged by a lightning strike.

[Saitch]

Mate on Moreton Island (island power is solar or gennie only) has to replace his batteries.

Around $80, 000.

[DoubleChevron]

We have had battery banks for a long time, going all the way back to the War in submarines and Edison before that, not to mention all the data centres are backed up by battery UPS's. Auto Transfer Switches are also a well established technology for generator back up to the mains, and generators have been able to jump on and off the mains in parallel so in sync, that is with no break in power for at least 30 years, so batteries should be any more troublesome.

They were lead acid though ... which is quite safe. The only thing the lithium batteries seem to have in common is a propensity to burst into the most incredible fires ... randomly ... small batteries, medium sized ones... even giant grid attached batteries, about the only thing they have in common is there ability to create impossible to extinguish fires.

I'm all for modern technology, but I'm very suspect of poeple putting cheap chinese batteries on there house .... The idea of one torching off while the family is asleep inside scares the hell out of me! In the last few days we have had unused electric busses torch off .... another cargo ship burnt out. Due to the "perfectly safe" lithium batteries ...

seeya
shane L.

[JDNSW]

Mate on Moreton Island (island power is solar or gennie only) has to replace his batteries.

Around $80, 000.

My batteries (lead acid) will only cost somewhere round $10,000 to replace.

[Saitch]

My batteries (lead acid) will only cost somewhere round $10,000 to replace.

Phew, JD. I feel a bit relieved for you, now! [thumbsupbig]

[DoubleChevron]

My batteries (lead acid) will only cost somewhere round $10,000 to replace.

If you don't deeply discharge them ... Don't they last virtually forever (ie: keep them up around 90% charged). Was it here on on aussiefrogs that someone had an old ex telstra battery setup, still going strong decades later as they keep them always almost fully charged.

[JDNSW]

Yes, I expect my current set to last a lot longer than my last, mainly because at the tie of my lightning damage I greatly increased the wattage of solar panels - they are a lot cheaper now than they were in 1993. This means that they still produce useful amounts of power when the sunlight is not too good (like today).

But I am still a careful power user, and generally do not use power for heating or airconditioning. But it is used for most cooking. The house is well insulated, with underfloor heating which is run by the wood burning kitchen stove, which also heats the hot water when the hot water system's collector is inadequate in low sunlight conditions.

[NavyDiver]

Power went out for five hours after the blow some of us had Saturday. 120kph winds [thumbsupbig][thumbsupbig][thumbsupbig]

New place and my shed is now up so Solar and hybrid inverter has been considered for last several months. It was about to happen. It was quoted with a 20kWh battery for less than 6k!

Me being a PITA tossed the city type as the system is going on and behind the new Shed/garage. That required a Sub Board. Wiring discussion for the supplier was hmmmmm. Called a good mate from Everest Energy who dropped a bombshell on me.

The Battery Rebates for Plebs is

Here are some key points about battery rebates in Australia:


The Cheaper Home Batteries Program will start on July 1, 2025, providing an upfront discount of around 30% on the purchase and installation of home batteries. (https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=efefd177bb13f3e080c31ccdd1704560af7875847d0c01a0 f88fd26f88919176JmltdHM9MTc1NjY4NDgwMA&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=4&fclid=14b1f7af-3938-634d-06db-e26f382862a2&psq=The+Battery+Rebates&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuc29sYXJxdW90ZXMuY29tLmF1L2JhdH Rlcnktc3RvcmFnZS9mZWRlcmFsLXJlYmF0ZS8&ntb=1)

2

(https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=efefd177bb13f3e080c31ccdd1704560af7875847d0c01a0 f88fd26f88919176JmltdHM9MTc1NjY4NDgwMA&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=4&fclid=14b1f7af-3938-634d-06db-e26f382862a2&psq=The+Battery+Rebates&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuc29sYXJxdW90ZXMuY29tLmF1L2JhdH Rlcnktc3RvcmFnZS9mZWRlcmFsLXJlYmF0ZS8&ntb=1)


Households could save approximately $4,000 off the upfront cost of installing an 11.5 kWh battery, which previously cost around $13,000. (https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=07a801994f19917780e830ce9cdba202bad89d15592adbe9 59f054c1d0d72280JmltdHM9MTc1NjY4NDgwMA&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=4&fclid=14b1f7af-3938-634d-06db-e26f382862a2&psq=The+Battery+Rebates&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZW5lcmd5Lmdvdi5hdS9uZXdzL2Rpc2 NvdW50ZWQtYmF0dGVyaWVzLWhvdXNlaG9sZHMtdGhyb3VnaC1j aGVhcGVyLWhvbWUtYmF0dGVyaWVzLXByb2dyYW0&ntb=1)

1

(https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=07a801994f19917780e830ce9cdba202bad89d15592adbe9 59f054c1d0d72280JmltdHM9MTc1NjY4NDgwMA&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=4&fclid=14b1f7af-3938-634d-06db-e26f382862a2&psq=The+Battery+Rebates&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZW5lcmd5Lmdvdi5hdS9uZXdzL2Rpc2 NvdW50ZWQtYmF0dGVyaWVzLWhvdXNlaG9sZHMtdGhyb3VnaC1j aGVhcGVyLWhvbWUtYmF0dGVyaWVzLXByb2dyYW0&ntb=1)


The program is an expansion of the Small-scale Renewable Energy Scheme (SRES), which has been popular for solar panel rebates. (https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=efefd177bb13f3e080c31ccdd1704560af7875847d0c01a0 f88fd26f88919176JmltdHM9MTc1NjY4NDgwMA&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=4&fclid=14b1f7af-3938-634d-06db-e26f382862a2&psq=The+Battery+Rebates&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuc29sYXJxdW90ZXMuY29tLmF1L2JhdH Rlcnktc3RvcmFnZS9mZWRlcmFsLXJlYmF0ZS8&ntb=1)

1

(https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=efefd177bb13f3e080c31ccdd1704560af7875847d0c01a0 f88fd26f88919176JmltdHM9MTc1NjY4NDgwMA&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=4&fclid=14b1f7af-3938-634d-06db-e26f382862a2&psq=The+Battery+Rebates&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuc29sYXJxdW90ZXMuY29tLmF1L2JhdH Rlcnktc3RvcmFnZS9mZWRlcmFsLXJlYmF0ZS8&ntb=1)


Eligibility for the rebate includes ensuring that the battery systems are compatible with virtual power plants (VPPs). (https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=1ff40f5ae7684b363b39cb469a6b5506490f356e17272eff 03a23439f1c29d1aJmltdHM9MTc1NjY4NDgwMA&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=4&fclid=14b1f7af-3938-634d-06db-e26f382862a2&psq=The+Battery+Rebates&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYWJjLm5ldC5hdS9uZXdzLzIwMjUtMD UtMDcvZ292ZXJubWVudC1ob21lLWJhdHRlcnktZGlzY291bnQt ZXhwbGFpbmVkLzEwNTI1NzkxNA&ntb=1)

1

(https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=1ff40f5ae7684b363b39cb469a6b5506490f356e17272eff 03a23439f1c29d1aJmltdHM9MTc1NjY4NDgwMA&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=4&fclid=14b1f7af-3938-634d-06db-e26f382862a2&psq=The+Battery+Rebates&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYWJjLm5ldC5hdS9uZXdzLzIwMjUtMD UtMDcvZ292ZXJubWVudC1ob21lLWJhdHRlcnktZGlzY291bnQt ZXhwbGFpbmVkLzEwNTI1NzkxNA&ntb=1)


Additional rebates or incentives may be available from state and territory governments, depending on local criteria. (https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=0c650569cb724b8138802cfdbc11521553e80971d9110043 94aa5ce94e9758f7JmltdHM9MTc1NjY4NDgwMA&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=4&fclid=14b1f7af-3938-634d-06db-e26f382862a2&psq=The+Battery+Rebates&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZGNjZWV3Lmdvdi5hdS9lbmVyZ3kvcH JvZ3JhbXMvY2hlYXBlci1ob21lLWJhdHRlcmllcw&ntb=1)

1

(https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=0c650569cb724b8138802cfdbc11521553e80971d9110043 94aa5ce94e9758f7JmltdHM9MTc1NjY4NDgwMA&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=4&fclid=14b1f7af-3938-634d-06db-e26f382862a2&psq=The+Battery+Rebates&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZGNjZWV3Lmdvdi5hdS9lbmVyZ3kvcH JvZ3JhbXMvY2hlYXBlci1ob21lLWJhdHRlcmllcw&ntb=1)

For more detailed information, you can refer to the official government resources or trusted energy websites.

What that misses is the KEY detail of the size limit of 50kWh battery and the ONCE off rebate! If I use the rebate for a 5-10kWh battery I cannot top it up to 50kWh in the future using the rebates!

The rebates may make a 50kWh cost a very small amount! Adding later would cost me $$$$$$$$$$ more.

I am back at the drawing board given this information dopey me had not noticed


Which Batteries Are Eligible For The Rebate?Batteries need to meet some requirements:


Batteries must be listed on the Clean Energy Council-approved product list (https://cleanenergycouncil.org.au/industry-programs/products-program/batteries) (the same goes for new inverters (https://cleanenergycouncil.org.au/industry-programs/products-program/inverters). If you're using an existing inverter it does not have to be on the approved list, but you do have to ensure it is not included in the product recall list (https://cleanenergycouncil.org.au/industry-programs/products-program/product-recalls));
A solar battery system with a nominal (total) capacity of 5 kWh to 100 kWh will be eligible, but only the first 50 kWh of usable capacity is discounted;
Existing batteries can be expanded, provided that the battery system has not already received the rebate, the additional capacity is at least 5 kWh, and the upgraded battery does not exceed 100 kWh in nominal capacity;
Only one battery system is eligible for a property, and the rebate can only be claimed once per property. Only someone with several properties or who moves on to a new residence could potentially install or upgrade multiple batteries under the scheme;
Batteries can be off-grid or connected to the grid, but in the case of the latter, they must also be Virtual Power Plant (https://www.solarquotes.com.au/battery-storage/vpp-comparison/) (VPP) capable (this doesn't mean battery owners must actually join a VPP);
Installers are required to be accredited for battery installation by Solar Accreditation Australia (check your preferred installer's status here (https://saaustralia.com.au/accreditation-status-check/)).


My 20kWh battery may become 50kWh for about $1200 more! My head spins given my last 2 batteries cost me about $10000 each! [biggrin]

Hope above may be of interest to you If you're considering a home battery.

[RANDLOVER]

That sounds like FGV which stands for Very Good Value!

[NavyDiver]

That sounds like FGV which stands for Very Good Value!

The FGV is possibly better value than I realized. Just read this

"Under the cap, spot electricity prices can rise to as much as $18,600 a megawatt hour, or $18.60 a kilowatt hour.Average retail electricity prices are between 30 cents and 40 cents per kilowatt hour, with a typical household using about 17 kilowatt hours a day.
Since 2019, the market cap has risen from $14,500 a megawatt hour and it is set to jump 16 per cent to $22,800 from July next year.
By 2028, it will be almost $27,000 a megawatt hour."[bigwhistle][bigwhistle][bigwhistle][bigwhistle][bigwhistle][bigwhistle][bigwhistle][bigwhistle][bigwhistle][bigwhistle][bigwhistle] I could have put this in a nuclear thread, A grumpy old tread. In this case its just being prepared thread?

Happy Father's Day to all dads biological or those legends that just chip in and generously help in that role

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I have a 6.5 kwh system. It does ok. We have limitation on roof space and shading issues from neighbouring properties.

I was considering getting some ideas about whether it can be improved, but with current FIT I think I'd be better to spend the money on a bigger battery.

Our old AC was a total power hog and it was costing us an extortionate amount of money. We have just had a new AC installed and it would appear it's going to use half the power so I'm keen to see how our usage goes over summer.

[RANDLOVER]

It'd be good if you can become an official "Generator" and gets those spike prices. Until about 10 years ago before all the solar really came online, my employer who owned a few buildings with diesel generators would often be paid to run them on hot afternoons, from about 2 to 6pm.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

It'd be good if you can become an official "Generator" and gets those spike prices. Until about 10 years ago before all the solar really came online, my employer who owned a few buildings with diesel generators would often be paid to run them on hot afternoons, from about 2 to 6pm.
Amber electric seems to let you sell into the peaks. Which is why it's ideal for people with a good size battery. Their automation manages it.

Unfortunately my solar operates when everyone else's does so if you are on wholesale pricing you might even have to pay to export!

The other downside is unless you have a battery you're going to be paying A LOT during the evening peak for your house electricity. It might work if you somehow don't do normal peak things.. but honestly I can't imagine it would work unless you have a battery.

But I think if you have a battery with enough capacity to cover the evening peak and sell into it then I think it can be quite a good deal. Even if you don't have enough solar and need to top up the battery from the grid. The key thing is you have to be able to cover your peak demand and then some. For us I think 10 would not be worth it.. probably 30 would be ideal.

[NavyDiver]

Saw a Iron Clad assurance that power prices would be cheaper in 2025 made two years or so ago That belongs in Jokes of course now.


My system is sitting out side waiting for installers. While I am waiting I was looking at my 5000w IF/When grid fails. It dropped of yesterday when a car and trailer climbed a power pole almost beside the CFA unit here :)

[B]Startup Wattage Estimates

Appliance Startup Wattage Range
Microwave 1000–1500 watts ]Most microwaves have a consistent draw; startup surge is minimal.
Electric Kettle 1500–3000 watts High draw due to resistive heating element; startup and running wattage are similar.
Induction Cooktop 1800–3000 watts May spike briefly at startup depending on model and pan detection.


In my business over the years I found Laser Printers the worst offenders for killing my systems.

Suspect the 5000VA 21.7A will be fine as I no longer have several Laser printers Growatt settings for its default fun seem ok to me

"Grid-connected Mode When the SPH operates in Grid-connected Mode, users can set appropriate working mode as needed. When configuring on the LCD screen with the buttons, you can only set the working mode for one time segment. When configuring on the website of the datalogger, you can configure the working mode for up to three time segments (for details, you can refer to Section 6.1.2.4).

1. Load First: Load First is the default mode. In this mode, PV energy is prioritized for supplying loads and the surplus solar power will be directed to charge the battery. The further excess power (if any) can be fed to the grid, subject to the Export Limitation settings. If PV energy is insufficient, the battery will discharge to power the loads. If the battery discharges to the user-defined discharge cutoff SOC, it will draw power from the grid to support the loads.

2. Battery First: In this mode, the PV power is sent to charge the battery first, suitable for periods of low electricity tariff. You need to set the start and end time for this mode, and the battery charging cutoff SOC. You can set power levels below the inverter's maximum charging power. If AC CHG (charge from grid) is disabled, the inverter will charge the battery with the PV power as much as possible, and send the surplus power to the loads. The further excess power will be exported to the grid based on the Export Limitation settings. If enabled, the inverter will charge the battery with the solar power first; if insufficient, it will draw power from the grid to support the loads.

3. Grid First: In this mode, PV energy will be primarily fed into the grid, suitable for periods with high electricity tariff. You need to set the start and end time for this mode, and the battery discharge cutoff SOC. Users can set power levels below the battery's maximum output power.


[B]Off-grid Mode If the grid power fails, the system will automatically switch to Off-grid Mode (you can disable this feature, referring to section 6.1.2.4), and output AC power with the solar and battery energy via the EPS port. If PV power is not available, then only the battery will discharge."


Proof of this will be IF I don't notice anything and pay a lot less soon. I will disable grid export as I can pump all spare power into my car.

[NavyDiver]

The two flow batteries I had for vaccine fridges and more were BIG. 20kWh for both of them was welcome when they didn't need replacing under warranty again a few times before that Aussie company went RIP.

The 30kWh and inverter sitting just waiting for rails for the last two solar panels to go up are tiny and pretty smick compared to the prior two I had.

194692 Its 6 battery modules in two stacks. The far stack has the inverter neatly on top. My prior set up beside the Batteries, Had a Fronius Inverter and two Victron Quattro 48/8000 chargers which controlled everything. Like the service fuel and maintenance on my Disco I won't mention how much the rest of that prior set up cost and saved me at times. [bigrolf]

My new system will allow power if/when grid fails





The controls are interesting. I do not need a very helpful sparky to manage this I think


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n61flVwpEMc


Proof of the pudding will be reliability and longevity of course. The above including 6.6kWh of Solar and installation costing me under 10k after all the subsidies is a bit shocking to myself.

I am now out of gas for heating, cooling and cooking. Noting before anyone gets funny about that - All my Warships had no gas for cooking and AC. Hot water or all fresh water was directly or indirectly via the BLOODY big boilers of course[biggrin].

The Induction Cook top rocks in my kitchen and for my new BBQ/Camping (not backpacking [biggrin][biggrin][biggrin]) Cleaning my gas cooktops has been a PITA at times . With an Induction Cook top only the surface directly under the pan gets warm so not backed on spills. grease makes it a simple wipe on the flat glass surface. It is really the game changer, I think. Steaks and fish on my cast-iron pan at exactly the temp I want are perfect every time.

Prawn and scallops last night [thumbsupbig][thumbsupbig][thumbsupbig]

This was super easy as well. Asian Chilli Garlic Prawns (Shrimp) - RecipeTin Eats (https://www.recipetineats.com/asian-chilli-garlic-prawns-shrimp/)

[101RRS]

I cannot understand why we are using lithium batteries for home and commercial applications.

We already know that if all cars transition to electric there will not be enough resources to build the batteries and there is a hope that battery technology will improve to save the day.

As we all know the main advantage of lithium batteries is high power, large capacity for relative light weight and reasonable cost. This makes them great for mobile applications like cars, planes etc.

However why do houses need this technology where space and weight is not really and issue, and indeed high efficiency is not needed as much as mobile applications. So why with limited resources are lithium batteries being used in static applications. Why do we not continue to use the latest lead application batteries in home situations. Sure - much heavier, not as powerful, but much cheaper and a big bank of old style batteries does not look as nice as a lithium banks sitting on the garage wall.

So is the use of lithium batteries in home application more to do with fashion and trendiness rather than demonstrated need.

Garry

[NavyDiver]

I cannot understand why we are using lithium batteries for home and commercial applications.

We already know that if all cars transition to electric there will not be enough resources to build the batteries and there is a hope that battery technology will improve to save the day.

As we all know the main advantage of lithium batteries is high power, large capacity for relative light weight and reasonable cost. This makes them great for mobile applications like cars, planes etc.

However why do houses need this technology where space and weight is not really and issue, and indeed high efficiency is not needed as much as mobile applications. So why with limited resources are lithium batteries being used in static applications. Why do we not continue to use the latest lead application batteries in home situations. Sure - much heavier, not as powerful, but much cheaper and a big bank of old style batteries does not look as nice as a lithium banks sitting on the garage wall.

So is the use of lithium batteries in home application more to do with fashion and trendiness rather than demonstrated need.

Garry

Or skeptical me may want to ensure I can cook with my induction cook top when the wind, sun and other bits are not working as well as the dreamers of the world claim? [biggrin][biggrin][biggrin] Not suggesting I am right or wrong. I have had another power outage today. Small first world problem mostly of course and I appreciate that limits of almost everything applies [thumbsupbig]

[Saitch]

Or skeptical me may want to ensure I can cook with my induction cook top when the wind, sun and other bits are not working as well as the dreamers of the world claim? [biggrin][biggrin][biggrin] Not suggesting I am right or wrong. I have had another power outage today. Small first world problem mostly of course and I appreciate that limits of almost everything applies [thumbsupbig]

Out of interest, how long would your setup last, if, for argument's sake, power was out for 3-4 days with dodgy sun?

Why I'm asking is that we lose power sometimes, for anywhere between 1 to 7 days. Especially storm season. We have a 6Kva AVR'd genny that plugs into the house switchboard. Runs the place easily. It's a necessity, as all our house water is electric pump dependent.

7 days is about 3 x 20l jerries of fuel. We turn the genny off overnight, with no ill effects.

We have 13.2 Kva solar.

[NavyDiver]

Out of interest, how long would your setup last, if, for argument's sake, power was out for 3-4 days with dodgy sun?

Why I'm asking is that we lose power sometimes, for anywhere between 1 to 7 days. Especially storm season. We have a 6Kva AVR'd genny that plugs into the house switchboard. Runs the place easily. It's a necessity, as all our house water is electric pump dependent.

7 days is about 3 x 20l jerries of fuel. We turn the genny off overnight, with no ill effects.

We have 13.2 Kva solar.
IF i didn't charge my cars 70kWh battery (or use it as VTG :) Yes I could even with my cheap MG4 :)

I suspect I would last well over a week or more given my avg daily use excluding my car is very low.

I note the Battery scheme maxs out to 50kWh of batteries which would be my tip if you're likely to see 7 days![thumbsupbig] My prior waffle may have mentioned the Battery scheme is a ONE time only option so my 30kWh partly funded via it is my one shot. I would have to pay myself as I normally would and have in the past[bigrolf]

The hum of a Gen set can be soothing is we don't mind the cost of its fuel [bigwhistle][bigwhistle][bigwhistle]

[Saitch]

IF i didn't charge my cars 70kWh battery (or use it as VTG :) Yes I could even with my cheap MG4 :)

I suspect I would last well over a week or more given my avg daily use excluding my car is very low.

I note the Battery scheme maxs out to 50kWh of batteries which would be my tip if you're likely to see 7 days![thumbsupbig] My prior waffle may have mentioned the Battery scheme is a ONE time only option so my 30kWh partly funded via it is my one shot. I would have to pay myself as I normally would and have in the past[bigrolf]

The hum of a Gen set can be soothing is we don't mind the cost of its fuel [bigwhistle][bigwhistle][bigwhistle]

That's the catch here. Tens of thousands for a battery system versus an occasional ~ $150 fuel bill. [bigsad]

[NavyDiver]

That's the catch here. Tens of thousands for a battery system versus an occasional ~ $150 fuel bill.

Sub 8K for 30kWh batteries, Inverter, 6.6kWh of solar panels and installation is not "Tens of thousands" [thumbsupbig]

Interesting to note the wholesale value of the batteries is a lot less than I thought even before the very generous Battery Rebate scheme

Other NOTE: "going to be reviewed at least annually and will gradually decrease until 2030,"

"Accessing the battery discountConsumers do not need to apply for the discount.
The discount is generally provided through accredited installers/retailers. The discount will be offered as an upfront reduction on the cost of the battery, [B]unless you decide to register for STCs (https://www.dcceew.gov.au/energy/programs/cheaper-home-batteries/small-scale-technology-certificates) yourself via the CER.
The CER provides more information about creating and selling STCs(external link) (https://cer.gov.au/schemes/renewable-energy-target/small-scale-renewable-energy-scheme/small-scale-technology-certificates) under the program.
However, most people will decide to receive the upfront discount from the retailer/installer as a reduced price. In these instances, you should:


Carefully research what battery system would best suit your energy needs, including seeking multiple quotes from retailers/installers.
Make sure information about the value of the program discount, the system warranty, and the anticipated payback period is clearly communicated.
Select a reputable retailer and installer. Check with family, friends or neighbours. Ensure the battery is approved by the Clean Energy Council(external link) (https://cleanenergycouncil.org.au/industry-programs/products-program/batteries) and the installer is properly accredited by Solar Accreditation Australia(external link) (https://saaustralia.com.au/accreditation-status-check/).
Ensure the accredited installer is on site for the set-up, installation and commissioning of the battery.

More guidance on installing a battery is available on the CER’s website (https://cer.gov.au/schemes/renewable-energy-target/small-scale-renewable-energy-scheme/small-scale-renewable-energy-systems/solar-batteries)(external link) (https://cer.gov.au/schemes/renewable-energy-target/small-scale-renewable-energy-scheme/small-scale-renewable-energy-systems/solar-batteries)


"


The limits are clear. I did think of doing this all myself but found the quotes too good to pass up. If I already had solar on the roof I would have. [thumbsupbig]

[NavyDiver]

Who provides the grid is a key now for me. Can A Home Battery On A Time-Of-Use Tariff Pay For Itself Yet? (https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/battery-time-of-use/)

'Time of use' contacts seem to make this easy. Off Peak charge and the supply charge will be the key to paying less. I do not plan to sell any solar FIT for $0.01 and buy it at more[bigwhistle]



Offer rate and details
AEST only





Tariff(inc. GST)


Supply charges


[B]
139.25 ¢/day

Peak

Weekday 7 am - 11 pm


All consumption


31.70 ¢/kWh





Off-Peak

Saturday 12 am - 7 am, 11 pm - 12 am, 7 am - 11 pm
Sunday 12 am - 7 am, 11 pm - 12 am, 7 am - 11 pm
Weekday 12 am - 7 am, 11 pm - 12 am


All consumption


18.96 ¢/kWh






Another with Supply charges
115.48 ¢/day and higher off peak (:

A EV specific plan just found may be mine?




EV Off-Peak - $0.08/kWh usage charge between midnight and 6am. Does not apply to controlled loads. For more information head to click here (http://www.ovoenergy.com.au/electric-vehicles/)
Free electricity between 11am and 2pm everyday. Does not apply to controlled loads. For more information head to click here (http://www.ovoenergy.com.au/electric-vehicles/)
Must own an electric vehicle.
100% GreenPower can be upgraded at any time.
This offer is available only for sites with an active and communicating smart meter.

Oddly it's not TOU and has Daily Supply Charge 112.2 cents per day and Peak All Usage at 43.065 cents per kWh which appears at first bad.

[DoubleChevron]

That's the catch here. Tens of thousands for a battery system versus an occasional ~ $150 fuel bill. [bigsad]

I'd always go the generator. who wants a fire prone battery that degrades anywhere near there house or family. If there is ever a natural disaster you will have power (petrol is just so easy to move around with some fuel drums). the first thing damaged in any sort of natural disaster is fragile solar panels, crappy chinese electronic inverters ..... if the batteries didn't burn your place down first.

Like everything in life, its all a game of chance right [bigrolf] A generator is endlessly useful. cheap chinese electronics and batteries are the least reliable thing I can think of .... What do you think the likelyhood of them and an electric throwaway car working the day you desperately need them ... [bigwhistle] (eg: after fires, floods, storms, winds, hail stones .... I consider them all almost useless).

[Saitch]

Who provides the grid is a key now for me. Can A Home Battery On A Time-Of-Use Tariff Pay For Itself Yet? (https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/battery-time-of-use/)

'Time of use' contacts seem to make this easy. Off Peak charge and the supply charge will be the key to paying less. I do not plan to sell any solar FIT for $0.01 and buy it at more[bigwhistle]



Offer rate and details
AEST only





Tariff(inc. GST)


Supply charges


[B]
139.25
¢/day


Peak

Weekday 7 am - 11 pm


All consumption


31.70 ¢/kWh





Off-Peak

Saturday 12 am - 7 am, 11 pm - 12 am, 7 am - 11 pm
Sunday 12 am - 7 am, 11 pm - 12 am, 7 am - 11 pm
Weekday 12 am - 7 am, 11 pm - 12 am


All consumption


18.96 ¢/kWh






Another with Supply charges
115.48
¢/day and higher off peak (:

A EV specific plan just found may be mine?




EV Off-Peak - $0.08/kWh usage charge between midnight and 6am. Does not apply to controlled loads. For more information head to click here (http://www.ovoenergy.com.au/electric-vehicles/)
Free electricity between 11am and 2pm everyday. Does not apply to controlled loads. For more information head to click here (http://www.ovoenergy.com.au/electric-vehicles/)
Must own an electric vehicle.
100% GreenPower can be upgraded at any time.
This offer is available only for sites with an active and communicating smart meter.

Oddly it's not TOU and has Daily Supply Charge 112.2 cents per day and Peak All Usage at 43.065 cents per kWh which appears at first bad.





Looking through this and considering my projected life span, I think I'll put my hard-earned toward something more beneficial.
Fishing gear upgrade, perhaps? [bigwhistle][biggrin]

[NavyDiver]

Looking through this and considering my projected life span, I think I'll put my hard-earned toward something more beneficial.
Fishing gear upgrade, perhaps? [bigwhistle][biggrin]

Love the why you're thinking [biggrin]

Not sure if I can fit any more in the tackle box (ES) or the rod rack (S)[thumbsupbig][thumbsupbig][thumbsupbig]

[scarry]

Looking through this and considering my projected life span, I think I'll put my hard-earned toward something more beneficial.
Fishing gear upgrade, perhaps? [bigwhistle][biggrin]

Agree,maybe a bit more shooting gear as well,and a few holidays for us.[biggrin]

Oh,and i think we will be putting Dino juice in the vehicles fuel tank for a long while yet.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I'm talking to an installer on Monday. We don't have any more roof space, but apparently the new panels as a substitute can lift our capacity from 6.5 to 11.

Also our inverter will need to be replaced as it's not "hybrid"

[DoubleChevron]

I'm talking to an installer on Monday. We don't have any more roof space, but apparently the new panels as a substitute can lift our capacity from 6.5 to 11.

Also our inverter will need to be replaced as it's not "hybrid"

Do you have a shed roof? That might be an easier way to go :)

[PhilipA]

My question is. Why aren't off peak rates offered in the middle of the day when there is a surplus of power and solar rates go negative?
When the coal power stations are gone there will probably be no off peak at night.
The wholesalers and retailers should be paying us to use power between say 10AM and 4PM.
My neighbour just made the mistake of going to TOD metering and pays premium from 3PM to 9PM (when you want to use power) and also has a "Peak Demand" clause which AFAIK mean if he uses lots of power on one day he gets charged at a higher rate for the rest of the billing period.
Latest was the most expensive bill he has ever had.
Another question, why aren't off peak rates offered for those who want a battery (even without solar) so that they could charge at off peak whether at night or during the day and use the power at peak times? I cannot get subsidy on either solar panels or batteries as I live in a retirement village where the house is leased. So the subsidies are only for the wealthy who do not need them.
Regards PhilipA

[Captain_Rightfoot]

My question is. Why aren't off peak rates offered in the middle of the day when there is a surplus of power and solar rates go negative?
When the coal power stations are gone there will probably be no off peak at night.
The wholesalers and retailers should be paying us to use power between say 10AM and 4PM.
My neighbour just made the mistake of going to TOD metering and pays premium from 3PM to 9PM (when you want to use power) and also has a "Peak Demand" clause which AFAIK mean if he uses lots of power on one day he gets charged at a higher rate for the rest of the billing period.
Latest was the most expensive bill he has ever had.
Another question, why aren't off peak rates offered for those who want a battery (even without solar) so that they could charge at off peak whether at night or during the day and use the power at peak times? I cannot get subsidy on either solar panels or batteries as I live in a retirement village where the house is leased. So the subsidies are only for the wealthy who do not need them.
Regards PhilipA
Have a look at amber.. they do wholesale electricity. It's common for electricity to be 0c during the day. But it also might be 40c in peak. If you download their app you can see how the prices fluctuate (for free). It shows that power companies when they charge you say 30c they are really just taking an educated guess that overall they are going to win. They will take a hit in peak but make a motza during the day.

The downside with taking them on as a supplier is that unless you are exceedingly thrifty in peak you're probably going to loose out. The way around that is of course a battery. They also have integration with inverters to "curtail" them when the sell price is negative.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Do you have a shed roof? That might be an easier way to go :)
That's a fair idea, and I have thought of it. It's not a big shed (two car) and it's heavily shaded from about noon by trees. Also while it does have power on it's unclear whether the wiring would support power going the other way.

[350RRC]

My question is. Why aren't off peak rates offered in the middle of the day when there is a surplus of power and solar rates go negative?
When the coal power stations are gone there will probably be no off peak at night.
The wholesalers and retailers should be paying us to use power between say 10AM and 4PM.
My neighbour just made the mistake of going to TOD metering and pays premium from 3PM to 9PM (when you want to use power) and also has a "Peak Demand" clause which AFAIK mean if he uses lots of power on one day he gets charged at a higher rate for the rest of the billing period.
Latest was the most expensive bill he has ever had.
Another question, why aren't off peak rates offered for those who want a battery (even without solar) so that they could charge at off peak whether at night or during the day and use the power at peak times? I cannot get subsidy on either solar panels or batteries as I live in a retirement village where the house is leased. So the subsidies are only for the wealthy who do not need them.
Regards PhilipA

Goingbush posted the following on June 7 this year............ you might want to look into it:

'I'm with OVO , the 3 for free plan, I have a pool pump running too between 11and 2 . too ,
heres a link with my ref code
OVO Energy | Loading... if you sign up using the we both get $120 credit.'

DL

[DoubleChevron]

That's a fair idea, and I have thought of it. It's not a big shed (two car) and it's heavily shaded from about noon by trees. Also while it does have power on it's unclear whether the wiring would support power going the other way.

running another power cable to the shed will be cheaper than throwing away your existing system. Having said that, do you run into the issue where you just can't put more power generation into the existing house wiring (especially as most houses are only on one phase). I genuinely have no idea. It is a waste of time if your shed is always in the shade though :)

[Captain_Rightfoot]

running another power cable to the shed will be cheaper than throwing away your existing system. Having said that, do you run into the issue where you just can't put more power generation into the existing house wiring (especially as most houses are only on one phase). I genuinely have no idea. It is a waste of time if your shed is always in the shade though :)

That's a good point. If I can get 11 kwh in new panels in existing locations.. what am I going to do with more. Limited value.

[DoubleChevron]

That's a good point. If I can get 11 kwh in new panels in existing locations.. what am I going to do with more. Limited value.

Oh .. Brisbane.... I was just going to say ..... waaaaaaayyyyy to much solar would be meaningless through 4 months of the year either way. Through the whole of winter it'll barely light a light bulb let alone produce anything remotely close to its rated power ..... But, um .... brisbane. The top end of australia is perfect for solar, during the day when you have the most power generated, you need the most power to run the A/Cs.

In Ballarat, everything changes as they derate so much with heavy cloud cover. from 20kw of solar you might be 2kw generated on a dark cloudy winters day.

seeya
Shane L.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Oh .. Brisbane.... I was just going to say ..... waaaaaaayyyyy to much solar would be meaningless through 4 months of the year either way. Through the whole of winter it'll barely light a light bulb let alone produce anything remotely close to its rated power ..... But, um .... brisbane. The top end of australia is perfect for solar, during the day when you have the most power generated, you need the most power to run the A/Cs.

In Ballarat, everything changes as they derate so much with heavy cloud cover. from 20kw of solar you might be 2kw generated on a dark cloudy winters day.

seeya
Shane L.
Typically I generate about 450 KWH in winter and about 850 in summer with the current system.

EDIT: FYI the car averages between 100 and 150 KWH a month.

[NavyDiver]

I'm talking to an installer on Monday. We don't have any more roof space, but apparently the new panels as a substitute can lift our capacity from 6.5 to 11.

Also our inverter will need to be replaced as it's not "hybrid"

Just a heads up on Hybrid Inverters and as importantly the Installer!

My installer hooked up 30Kwh of batteries solar and Hybrid Inverter as a hybrid as it can charge /discharge batteries as well as PV Solar. He did not know about or did not install the 2nd cable required for the Protected circuit or off grid the my Hybrid Inverter allows IF wired and configured correctly.

They are back today fixing this after a few discussions. [thumbsupbig]


With out that grid wired to Inverter and house wired from Inverter if the grid goes off so would my Solar and access to the stored power.


The installer is now pedantic and suggesting the '5000VA' would cover my lights only! I had a older Goodwee Hybrid Inverter years ago an know the grid passes directly via the Inverter to my business running 3 Fridges, AC, Lights, A dozen computers and an Elevator[biggrin][biggrin][biggrin].

Nice people yet despite installing quiet a few similar systems would have happy left the half wired Hybrid Inverter which would be the same as a standard invert and a battery charge system like Victron quattro (2) I had after the issues I had with my multiple Laser printers massive power draw when they all turned on at the same time.

The system I know have as output of , I may swap that up moving the output when Grids off from 5000VA to a SPH 6000TL-HUB with 6000VA. I'll wait and see for a while once I get a few months with the systme working.


Other issues I am trying to fix today is I get a EV power plan that gives me FREE power from 11:00 to 14:00. I suspect I could play with battery output timing a lot with that [biggrin]

Given I am getting more than 35kWh of solar per day I think my car and house may be covered almost entirely

[DoubleChevron]

Typically I generate about 450 KWH in winter and about 850 in summer with the current system.

EDIT: FYI the car averages between 100 and 150 KWH a month.

If you work from home (or are retired) that would work quite well depending on how much power the house itself consumes. We are a high power user. If anyone is home we are heating the house with heat pumps. I work from home and have a heat pump running all day in my office area. There is also the washing machine and electric cloths driers hammering away most days. It is what it is, but unless its the middle of summer, I wouldn't be charging high current devices. My father charges his electric throw-away from the house solar. He is retired and the car does basically zero milage (shopping runs around town mostly). So even through winter he could probably keep its battery at around 80% charge (you don't want it to charged or you loose the regen function).

I see the electric throw-aways around here .... And think how nice an old Triumph stag .... or V12 jag would be..... well really how nice anything old and decent without electronic garbage is :banana::banana: (yes I am nuts, no doubt about it).

[DoubleChevron]

Given I am getting more than 35kWh of solar per day I think my car and house may be covered almost entirely

How do you go through winter if you heat with heat pumps? ie: nothing for 12 hours a day, and possible cloud cover through the daylight hours. I don't think I could charge anything to be useful through winter, let alone run the heating :). At the moment we have an 8KW system, and our power bills are over $300 a month in winter.

seeya
Shane L.

[NavyDiver]

How do you go through winter if you heat with heat pumps? ie: nothing for 12 hours a day, and possible cloud cover through the daylight hours. I don't think I could charge anything to be useful through winter, let alone run the heating :). At the moment we have an 8KW system, and our power bills are over $300 a month in winter.

seeya
Shane L.

I had a record for ten plus years of the seasonal PV on my business PV. I will need to top up in Winter. The when I top up is the $$$$$$ or $? The 3 hours of free power time shifted to my batteries may mean little if any other than the very cheap overnight if needed.

Waiting and seeing for current system to have a few years will be needed for my own satisfaction.

Of interest is right now the batteries are charging at the maximum rate and mostly using PV and grid 2nd. That and the morning prior to 11am has already put battery back over 50%. I dumped almost the entire battery into my car overnight[biggrin] Other trivia is Solar is at "
PV Power：5.67kW" despite a fair bit of cloud about.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Update is the installer said it was unlikely they could increase the capacity of the solar much. He said most of the increase in capacity is because the panels are bigger. Given the limited space it's unlikely they could increase it much and it would be expensive.

So he reckoned just getting a couple of batteries. Go on a plan like OVO and charge for free for three hours a day and top your battery up. The fun for the rest of the day on free power. Also they do 8c between midnight and 6 which is also another option to top up.

He recommended powerwall3 and one expansion module. I don't have much room for any more.

[DoubleChevron]

Update is the installer said it was unlikely they could increase the capacity of the solar much. He said most of the increase in capacity is because the panels are bigger. Given the limited space it's unlikely they could increase it much and it would be expensive.

So he reckoned just getting a couple of batteries. Go on a plan like OVO and charge for free for three hours a day and top your battery up. The fun for the rest of the day on free power. Also they do 8c between midnight and 6 which is also another option to top up.

He recommended powerwall3 and one expansion module. I don't have much room for any more.

Can you remote mount the batteries in the shed away from the house where the family sleeps? In theory quite safe, however those suckers are getting recalled constantly (It doesn't even appear to be the batteries themselves as much as the electronics).

Don't you have an electric throw-away? It's possible to set them up as a house battery as well. It makes me wonder if the infrastructure electronics to do so is worthwhile though unless the car is always at home (ie:it would be no good for someone that drives to work during the daylight each day).

[Tins]

https://youtu.be/fiv9hcLYjWo?si=RSm1RGuoL2wojRnh

[NavyDiver]

https://youtu.be/fiv9hcLYjWo?si=RSm1RGuoL2wojRnh

All very true JT. The power went out for tens or hundreds of thousands of homes and business with the storms earlier this week. Smug Mug Me perhaps?


What also true is those who can afford to have a hybrid system may be ok while many who cannot afford both the systems and the right people to install them will be both paying more and having more unstable supply.

My nuclear bent is looking better and better every day. Silex/GLE TRL6 has made my super account smile++++++++ NOT INVESTMENT ADVICE

[Captain_Rightfoot]

https://youtu.be/fiv9hcLYjWo?si=RSm1RGuoL2wojRnh
FYI. The Centre For Independent Studies is a well known right wing group which is known for it's anti renewable policies and lobbying.

Donald Trump'''s '''climate hoax''' comments belong to a well-resourced playbook landing on Australia'''s shores - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-09-29/trump-climate-hoax-comments-and-fossil-fuel-lobby/105810870)

Just a moment... (https://reneweconomy.com.au/the-network-of-conservative-think-tanks-out-to-kill-the-switch-to-renewables/)

Just for fun I had a little dig into what these guys actually think we should do, and I can't really find that they have any plan but they do think current policies are rubbish. That's the problem with all this - if you don't like what's being done come up with a compelling alternative!

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I reckon this is the problem in one video.


https://youtu.be/NIALzDX8nvs?si=YLBK-6o3L5650h-7