2014 Deefer- Unlucky year or just ours?

[Inkahootz81]

We've had our 2014 Puma Deefer for nearing two years with 170k km's.

It seems like everything has failed at some point and has us wondering if it's just the build quality slipping, or have we just been unlucky.

It's been towed to the mechanics a total of 8 times so far.

Kill switch/immobiliser failed and needed bypassing



Remote central locking doesn't.



Intercooler split
Fuel pump failed
Sump pan rusted through
2x turbo's. (was actuator on both)
New engine wiring harness.
New rear axles
New ECU
New Oil crankshaft cover
New hoses
New timing sensors


Now the HD Clutch needs replacing & check the transfer.

The previous owners had some parts replaced or changed under warranty, including beefing up the clutch.
The also replaced the entire roof under warranty.

Comparing it to our previous Deef (1998) we had for 6 years & replaced one part.
So i guess the question is- "Is this normal... to be expected and just part of the Defender experience, or is our Deef a Dud?"

[Robmacca]

Wow... I would say bad luck maybe?

I've got a 2010 with about 207k on the clock and in general its been great. The previous owner I think did alot of mods/maint to it and since I've had it I've done minor things until recently where the TC was rebuilt (ATB also installed) and replaced the Ashcroft Adaptor with the latest version. I love it but I also still love driving the old and slower 300tdi Def as well...

[shack]

I don't know much about the later "puma" powered defenders, however I do keep an eye on what issues seem to spring up.

Out of the issues you have mentioned, the only common ones I am aware of are :

Immobilizer failure.

Clutch problems.

Others may add more to this list.

Other common failures seem to be injectors, diffs and transfer case adaptor shaft.

It's always possible some of the replaced items are "friendly fire" as a result of injudicious use of the "parts cannon" ([emoji2398] Dazzatd5, he doesn't use one.. he coined the term).

But I hope not.. It's just that when you see ECU replaced, and engine wiring loom replaced.. It makes one suspicious.

Every vehicle will have unique issues for sure, but it's always worth investigating other workshops before handing over your money.

Cheers
James

[DazzaTD5]

We've had our 2014 Puma Deefer for nearing two years with 170k km's.

It seems like everything has failed at some point and has us wondering if it's just the build quality slipping, or have we just been unlucky.

It's been towed to the mechanics a total of 8 times so far.

Kill switch/immobiliser failed and needed bypassing



Remote central locking doesn't.



Intercooler split
Fuel pump failed
Sump pan rusted through
2x turbo's. (was actuator on both)
New engine wiring harness.
New rear axles
New ECU
New Oil crankshaft cover
New hoses
New timing sensors


Now the HD Clutch needs replacing & check the transfer.

The previous owners had some parts replaced or changed under warranty, including beefing up the clutch.
The also replaced the entire roof under warranty.

most items I've listed below are everyday items and I do them as part of the "complete Defender list"
imobiliser losing sync- reasonably common.
intercooler splitting - common.
fuel pump - one on a 2.4.
sump pan rusted out - reasonably common if not attended to early
turbo failure - common as genuine/ garrett are made in india and all new garrett are made in china (get a quality rebuilt one)
turbo actuator failure - common, can be replaced WITHOUT replacing the whole turbo
wiring harness - not done one (although dealers "fix" the imobiliser issue with replacing the harness)
rear axles wear - common
ecu - not done one (suspect yours was a mis-diagnose)
crankshaft front cover - only when doing a top end overhaul
coolant hoses? - not often
timing sensor? do you mean crankshaft position sensor? if so then - common
CLUTCH failures - very common, its generally why the Defender has come in and I do the rest. (std and HD land rover clutch are rubbish Ford parts)

oh and you forgot or it hasnt happened yet...
adaptor shaft failure (between gearbox n transfer case) - common
heater valve assembly leaking - common
heater fan blower resistor - not often
heater control assembly - not often
injector seals - common
injectors - common on high mileage 2.4
rear side door harness - common
back door not unlocking - common
side markers fading, melting, blowing globes - common
door hinge bolts rusting - common
rear mudflaps ripping off allum body - common
corrosion on rear cross member - common
heat shield on CPS, turbo cracking - common
blown intercooler hoses - now and then (all turbo diesel vehicles)
leaking transfer case - common
head gasket and or head warping - so so, just done 3 in the last month or so.
starter motor - vary rare
alternator - even rarer
a/c compressor - not often
a/c condensor - not often

I think thats about it, most items really are pesky build quality issues and can be rectified easily.

oh the rear diff - common [tonguewink]
egr heat exchange splitting - only on a 2.2

[shack]

It would appear I'm guilty of gross understatement!

That's disappointing to see a list of issues like that, having said that I've always felt the pick was either 300tdi or TD5.

I hope you can get it sorted and enjoy travelling around.

[DazzaTD5]

It would appear I'm guilty of gross understatement!

That's disappointing to see a list of issues like that, having said that I've always felt the pick was either 300tdi or TD5.



IMHO... the Defender TDCi (2007 - 2016, puma) is the best Defender made...

A low range first lower than any other defender.
A a/c and heater that actually work.
a stronger gearbox.
a 5th and 6th gear which makes them great on the hiway
a good engine, that at 200K when I have pulled heads off there is no wear in the bores.
better seats.
ancillaries (starter, alternator, a/c compressor, water pump) rarely fail.
a lighter clutch (due to it being a full hydraulic)
an engine that tunes up exceptionally well (typical tune is 440NM @ that round 2000rpm, with the best I've done at 470NM)
still looks cool and came in that Keswick green.

compared to other **** 4x4s on the road its pretty simplistic and overall pretty reliable.

oh and another bad item is the price of them now.

[jon3950]

IMHO... the Defender TDCi (2007 - 2016, puma) is the best Defender made...

still looks cool and came in that Keswick green.



What more do you need. :cool:

[Inkahootz81]

ecu - not done one (suspect yours was a mis-diagnose)



Just asking- we had shuddering/power loss at around 50km's into trip that varied between pothole thump to full violent throws.
This would bring on dash lights and often complete power failure. Sometimes clear after switch on/off a few times, sometimes not.

Drive through a puddle and it would fail 30 seconds later.

We assumed wiring issue due to random codes, so replaced engine bay wiring, then the ECU.

Mechanic said the Puma ECU is bolted onto a part that is exposed to heat, so likely had small crack allowing water to ingress when warm, resulting in the tantrums.

In your experience, what do you think?
(I sent a quick PM to you with the details)

[DazzaTD5]

Just asking- we had shuddering/power loss at around 50km's into trip that varied between pothole thump to full violent throws.
This would bring on dash lights and often complete power failure. Sometimes clear after switch on/off a few times, sometimes not.

Drive through a puddle and it would fail 30 seconds later.

We assumed wiring issue due to random codes, so replaced engine bay wiring, then the ECU.

Mechanic said the Puma ECU is bolted onto a part that is exposed to heat, so likely had small crack allowing water to ingress when warm, resulting in the tantrums.

In your experience, what do you think?
(I sent a quick PM to you with the details)

My "guess" would be a crankshaft position sensor....

[Inkahootz81]

One of the first codes stated that, so mechanic changed the sensor.

Same code appeared shortly after with some random turbo codes added as well.
They checked the new sensor when doing turbo work.

Then it's been 'whack-a-mole' ever since.

Took it for it's first dirt+creek crossing run today and no issues, so *thumping fist into timber table top* hopefully it's sorted.

[DazzaTD5]

Mechanic said the Puma ECU is bolted onto a part that is exposed to heat, so likely had small crack allowing water to ingress when warm, resulting in the tantrums.



again I find this a odd statement from the mechanic as the Ford ecu is encased in a rubbery plastic like a potting material.

anyway if its not showing and more issues, then leave it at that.

[spudfan]

IMHO... the Defender TDCi (2007 - 2016, puma) is the best Defender made...

A low range first lower than any other defender.
A a/c and heater that actually work.
a stronger gearbox.
a 5th and 6th gear which makes them great on the hiway
a good engine, that at 200K when I have pulled heads off there is no wear in the bores.
better seats.
ancillaries (starter, alternator, a/c compressor, water pump) rarely fail.
a lighter clutch (due to it being a full hydraulic)
an engine that tunes up exceptionally well (typical tune is 440NM @ that round 2000rpm, with the best I've done at 470NM)
still looks cool and came in that Keswick green.

compared to other **** 4x4s on the road its pretty simplistic and overall pretty reliable.

oh and another bad item is the price of them now.
I too think that the Puma is a fine machine. Fair enough our 2008 Puma has had the starter motor and water pump replaced but our 200 tdi has had a starter motor and an alternator replaced. Both the Puma and the tdi have had a clutch replacement. Just normal wear and tear. The Puma is such a user friendy and drivable machine and was a great step forward in the Defender lineage while still being a true Defender.

[spudfan]

Passed the 200,000 kms recently. The Covid cut down on the travel. Oh and still on it's original output shaft.

[Robmacca]

Passed the 200,000 kms recently. The Covid cut down on the travel. Oh and still on it's original output shaft.

Wow, that's amazing, but it's not something that I would want to always have in the back of my mind when out travelling/touring, especially when remote.

[spudfan]

Good point. I am not boasting or bragging, just saying it as it is. It does cross my mind occasionally that it could fail. If it does I hope it is in the back yard! I will face that when it comes. I had thought of a preventive maintenance change but I have read reports of replacements lasting less than 30,000kms or in one case less than 20,000kms. Anyway if the shaft fails I'll post it up.

[DiscoMick]

Ours is still going after 186,000 kms.

[scarry]

Ours is still going after 186,000 kms.

The one in the sons died at 86000Km,in the middle of no where.
It took a huge effort to get it back to MR auto to have it fixed,they had a pile of around 50 failed shafts at the workshop at the time.

Another marvellous piece of LR engineering,designed to keep the mechanics busy.[bigsad][biggrin]

[spudfan]

I am not the first to wonder why some last and some don't.

[trout1105]

Ours is still going after 186,000 kms.

360,000k's on the 79 series and still on the original output shaft as well[bigwhistle]

[travelrover]

Our 2012 had the output shaft replaced at around 80,000. Was much more drivable with the Ashcroft unit, and recently we replaced the rear axels with heave duty and the gear stick as the usual lamination failure on the gear knob with an aluminum unit. These were vast improvements in drivability also. But last night my wife was almost home from work (actually on our driveway) when the oil light came and on initial inspection it appears as though there is a filter/O ring failure. Though was only serviced the preceding week. Oil all over the shed floor and none left in the engine. Got just over 130k on clock now. Let’s see what this is going to cost. Also due for a new output seal and a clutch in the not too distant future.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220720/fba3363cfd9a08d0172fb86b80a276f1.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220720/906454256f4769104299f858d3dd4836.jpg

[spudfan]

If it is the cannister type filter perhaps the filter was not tightened sufficiently?
If it is the paper type filter fitted in the plastic housing and screwed on, maybe the housing was not tightened sufficiently. Or it could be that the rubber "0" ring was fitted incorrectly. Who ever fitted it might have fitted the "0"ring at the base of the filter where there is what looks like a space for it instead of higher up where there is an indentation for it. It would mean that instead of a tight seal the oil was able to run down the threads of the filter housing.
I am aware of both of the above happening.
I hope you will have no engine damage.

[scarry]

360,000k's on the 79 series and still on the original output shaft as well[bigwhistle]

One of my brothers has a '93 D1,he bought it in '94,does all the work on it himself.

Its done just under 400,000Km,and the drive train hasn't been touched.
But i bet it weeps a bit more oil than your 79.....[bighmmm][biggrin]