300tdi down on power

[steveG]

Currently working through an issue with my 300tdi 130 being down on power.
I did a 500km round trip yesterday with a trailer. Everything was normal on the way there - cruising at just over 100kmh in 5th.
On the way home I could only manage 90k's on the flat - and that was in 4th as there was no way it would pull 5th gear.
Empty trailer on the way there, and only a ride-on mower - about 300kg and a bit of wind drag - for the return trip.

It feels like the engine just isn't coming onto boost. At 90k's in 4th there is throttle response to about half pedal - but pressing the pedal further after that makes no difference. If you put your foot to the floor you can lift up to about half travel before any reduction in power.

It was an on-road trip, so no 4WD/mud/water etc involved. Same tank of fuel on the return trip.
Engine is 100% standard with zero tweaks done to the fueling etc.
Unfortunately no boost or EGT gauges fitted so no clues there.

Investigating today from a low boost/fueling perspective - so far I've done the following with no improvement or obvious issues found:

Removed and cleaned the fuel sedimeter - only a small amount of crap
Changed the fuel filter
Removed the turbo inlet hose and checked the compressor - looks fine and is spinning with engine running
Removed the top intercooler hose and checked that the turbo is providing some boost when the engine is revved
Checked that the injector pump boost sense hose seems OK - blanked one end and blew into the other to check it was holding pressure (it was)
Removed the boost sense hose from the IP, fitted a bit of tube and blew in that to make sure the diaphragm isn't obviously leaking/split.
Driven it again today without the trailer after doing all the above - definitely down on power and only just makes 100k's on the flat.



I think the next thing I'll do is hook up a boost gauge and see what its doing, but thought I'd post the issue here in case I'm missing something obvious.

Steve

[AK83]

I'd say worth checking .. the wastegate levers. Could be stuck(rusted up or something). could be sticking half open or something

You don't need special tools or gauges, just swing the pivot with a spanner/shift spanner see how it feels. If a bit sticky then maybe spray it with some penetrating fluid or something.

If you have a air compressor and a way to inject some air into the hose (and air blower nozzle) could be worth trying to inject some air in there to see how it operates.

[Fattima]

Check your lift pump too, I had one fail with similar results.

[86mud]

Also check the boost hose especially the rubber connector at the turbo waste gate. If it is still the original, the rubber goes hard/perishes.

Plus check the hose clamps on all the intercooler piping. Could be a crack in the intercooler as well.

[86mud]

Also check the boost hose especially the rubber connector at the turbo waste gate. If it is still the original, the rubber goes hard/perishes.

Plus check the hose clamps on all the intercooler piping. Could be a crack in the intercooler as well.

[workingonit]

As suggested by 86mud, check the (edit) boost line that runs from the injector pump, via the space between the back of the engine and firewall, to the turbo. The rubber attachment tube at the turbo deteriorates leaving the (edit) boost line hanging. In this condition the vehicle will get to speed at a snails pace.

[steveG]

Thanks guys.

I ran a separate line from the turbo to the IP sense port - no change.
Added a pressure gauge to that line. Not showing any boost.
If I remove the top intercooler hose and blank it off with my hand I get about 7psi on the gauge.

Also blanked off the hose to the wastegate to test. Same deal - no boost on the gauge.

I think it’s looking like a dead turbo.

Any suggestions on quickest source for a replacement?
I haven’t got time to be modifying it with different turbo etc - so just want a new CHRA to drop in.

PS: Forgot to say I’d applied 10psi to the pump boost port while giving it a decent rev. Got a bit of smoke which isn’t there without pressure applied.
That fits with lack of boost keeping the fueling down.

Steve

[AK83]

Thanks guys.

I ran a separate line from the turbo to the IP sense port - no change.
Added a pressure gauge to that line. Not showing any boost.
If I remove the top intercooler hose and blank it off with my hand I get about 7psi on the gauge.

.....

How did you check for pressure?

if on a drive through the gears .. OK.
But ...
If just revs whilst sitting still, it won't produce a lot of pressure just revving, it needs a load.
Is hose for the gauge long enough to get into the cabin and take for a drive?

[steveG]

Yes, I also road tested with the gauge in the cab.
There’s a very slight positive pressure if you put your finger over the end of the hose, but not enough to get even a slight movement on a 40psi gauge.

Steve

[Shonky]

I think it’s looking like a dead turbo.

Any suggestions on quickest source for a replacement?

Hi Steve.

I recently had my 300Tdi turbo (standard one) redone by MTQ Engine Systems at Wetherill Park in Sydney, who are a Garrett master distributor.

It was only $682, which included media blasting the housing and installing a brand new genuine Garrett core. Pretty reasonable I thought, for what is essentially now a brand new turbo.

MTQ appear to have a branch in Dandenong, and I'm sure they'd ship you a core if you wanted to DIY.

Andrew.

https://www.aulro.com/app/data/500/medium/20220805_190042.jpg

[steveG]

Thanks Shonky.
I’ve got a one of these on its way from Turbo Rebuilds in the UK.

Enhanced Turbo Uprated Billet Cartridge 452055 Land Rover Defender Discovery 300tdi (https://www.turborebuild.co.uk/webshop/prod_5481949-Enhanced-Turbo-Uprated-Billet-Cartridge-452055-Land-Rover-Defender-Discovery-300tdi.html)

AUD$470 incl shipping via FedEx.
Shipped on 6 sept, it’s already cleared customs in AU and now with FedEx in Sydney for delivery.
Hopefully I’ll have it mid week.

Steve

[steveG]

Turbo core arrived yesterday, so I got onto removing the old one this afternoon.

I was originally hoping I might be able to just remove the old core in situ and fit the new one.
Quickly became apparent that wasn’t going to happen as the bolts clamping the turbo to the exhaust manifold/housing wouldn’t budge.

So off with the manifolds and onto the bench for some butchery.

When I turned the exhaust manifold upside down it was blindingly obvious what the boost issue was.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220915/f525ba38ed0cc7956003b406f638d4a8.jpg

So - I definitely feel like a bit of a goose for not picking that up while troubleshooting. Particularly when it was suggested I check the wastegate wasn’t seized (and I didn’t).
Ah well - such is life……
Since I’ve come this far I’ll fit the new core although the original one looks and feels perfectly fine.

I had to cut the heads off 3 of the clamp bolts to remove the old core. Managed to get one of the 3 out with heat, penetrant and vice grips, but ended up having to weld nuts onto the last 2 with the MIG to get enough leverage on them.

Steve

[POD]

Oh dear Steve- a $470 C-clip! Don't tell your wife.

[steveG]

Yeah - *it happens.
I could always just throw the original one back in and flog the new core off, but knowing my luck it would crap itself 2 months down the track.

Just have to write it off as preventative maintenance…

Steve

[steveG]

Just a couple of hints for anyone doing their first turbo core on a 300tdi.

1. Don’t even think about trying to replace the core without removing the manifolds.
Just jump in and pull the manifolds at the start - it’s MUCH easier to do the turbo change on the bench.

2. Very likely you will need replacement clamp bolts for the core - particularly if it’s the original turbo that’s been on there for 20+ years. I ended up cutting the heads off mine with a grinder and welding nuts onto the remaining stubs to be able to remove them.
I’d also suggest having new studs and nuts for the manifold to down pipe flange joint in case they need butchery to remove.

3. Helps to have a decent pair of 90deg internal circlip pliers to remove the circlip on the compressor housing. It’s a big bugger, and tapered so it locks in pretty tightly. Would definitely be a struggle without the pliers (and I’m usually pretty good with alternative butchery).

Steve

[Shonky]

Oh no! Thanks for a good chuckle, Steve, and good on you for sharing. We've all been there. [bigwhistle]



Just a couple of hints for anyone doing their first turbo core on a 300tdi.

1. Don’t even think about trying to replace the core without removing the manifolds...

2. Very likely you will need replacement clamp bolts for the core...

3. Helps to have a decent pair of 90deg internal circlip pliers...


I'll add to this and say that the bolt heads are NOT metric, they are 1/2".

I nearly rounded one of mine off until I discovered this. After that all eight of them across two manifolds came out happily with a good quality AF ring spanner.

(They had also been doused in WD40 a week prior, and I applied heat for the first two but didn't bother for the rest and it didn't make any difference)