3.0 TDV6 broken crankshaft / engine rebuild

[Fabsky]

Hello everyone. In my Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 it refused to obey and more precisely the crankshaft broke. I decided to fix it myself. I am addressing all those who have done it before, that is, what is also worth paying attention to / refreshing beyond the main fault so that the engine will be used as long as possible.
Can anyone recommend proven sources where it is best to buy engine parts? I will also be grateful if someone has a shop manual for the engine with technical data.
I tried to search this extensive forum but couldn't find the information I was looking for. If I missed something, I am sorry.

Cheers
Fabian

[simonmelb]

Before considering this you should know what you’re heading into. LR Time videos of their repair gives you a good start: Is this the end? Complete engine failure - Land Rover Discovery 3 / LR3 - Episode 1 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/MKYovvWWym0)

[josh.huber]

The manual available on this website is really good mate, good luck with the build. Take heaps of photos and post them up. Plenty of people will be interested in your journey.
As for parts if I had to do it I would probably aim to buy genuine where possible. Depending on price

[rambada]

Good luck with the rebuild, way above my pay grade but am interested in photos as well. I believe my indie goes to BMI – Welcome to BMI's online store (https://www.bmiparts.com.au) if that helps.

[DiscoJeffster]

The manual doesn’t have bottom end info unfortunately (well mine doesn’t) but I did come across a Peugeot manual for the bottom end at one point which covers it off. I’ll see if I can find it and flick it through.

[PerthDisco]

If you become a patreon of LR Time you can access detailed data on the gear they used / built / bought and allows you to ask questions. He has the rebuild and parts books for everything. They did rebuild a 2.7 though although he does mention relevant component differences to the 3.0 quite a lot. The initial bearing set he bought was for a 3.0 not 2.7.

Unless there was valve damage the top ends last a long time although freshening up the lifters and chain gear is worthwhile.

[Fabsky]

Thanks a lot to everyone for the answer. In general, I have already taken big steps and so far everything is going well.

simonmelb - I've seen their videos, they're very helpful. By the way, I saw a few other brave people who were my inspiration to take up this challenge.
josh.huber - already bought the manual from Dave and I'm starting to browse. I hope I will find all the necessary information when assembling the engine.
rambada - thank you for the information, I will have a look there without a doubt.
DiscoJeffster - This is not good news. I hope the manual I just bought will include this chapter. If by some miracle you found the manual you mentioned I would be very grateful.
PerthDisco - I have become a patreon already, thank you. LR Time is a real mine of knowledge.


Here is a link to video / time lapse from the progress of removing the engine from my Discovery 4 with body on.

Day 1
https://youtu.be/CCCaMRBvyNg

Day 2
https://youtu.be/73Bvfq3yqhA

Day 3
https://youtu.be/appv1z4Vf2Q

[Dagilmo]

Hi Fabian,

Great work and great vids. Please keep posting as very keen to following your progress. Good luck.


BR David.

[PerthDisco]

Copying a few relevant and interesting short videos to this resource as a Plan B. Same process I think DiscoJeffster had done on his 3.0.

Land Rover Discovery 3 TDV6 Main bearings removal from under the Car. - YouTube (https://youtu.be/LZiZqr43hj0)

Land Rover Discovery 3 TDV6 Main bearing install - YouTube (https://youtu.be/StX3nG6jwUI)

tdv6 First Startup with New bearings - YouTube (https://youtu.be/kM4StYtpBaU)

Interesting pressure gauge he developed

Oil pressure Display/Gauge for Land Rover Discovery 3 tdv6 2.7 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/-O7BaxtgqTA)

[PerthDisco]

Thanks a lot to everyone for the answer. In general, I have already taken big steps and so far everything is going well.

simonmelb - I've seen their videos, they're very helpful. By the way, I saw a few other brave people who were my inspiration to take up this challenge.
josh.huber - already bought the manual from Dave and I'm starting to browse. I hope I will find all the necessary information when assembling the engine.
rambada - thank you for the information, I will have a look there without a doubt.
DiscoJeffster - This is not good news. I hope the manual I just bought will include this chapter. If by some miracle you found the manual you mentioned I would be very grateful.
PerthDisco - I have become a patreon already, thank you. LR Time is a real mine of knowledge.


Here is a link to video / time lapse from the progress of removing the engine from my Discovery 4 with body on.

Day 1
https://youtu.be/CCCaMRBvyNg

Day 2
https://youtu.be/73Bvfq3yqhA

Day 3
https://youtu.be/appv1z4Vf2Q

I’m loving the 1minute format! How are the thighs feeling after three days of doing squats?

Magnificent effort.

Were you were able to get that exhaust cross over out entirely via access through the wheel arches?

[Graeme]

IIRC the bonnet can be stood straight up, best tied back over the roof.

[Fabsky]

It was a really demanding challenge. I don't remember the last time I had such physical activity. As it turned out, with a little more enthusiasm, it can be done in one person without much plan. I will add that not a single nut or screw has been broken or torn off (bolts on the exhaust ,turbo and crossover pipe including).

[DazzaTD5]

It was a really demanding challenge. I don't remember the last time I had such physical activity. As it turned out, with a little more enthusiasm, it can be done in one person without much plan. I will add that not a single nut or screw has been broken or torn off (bolts on the exhaust ,turbo and crossover pipe including).

Balls of steel mate, balls of steel [tonguewink] great effort.

As Graeme has mentioned the bonnet can go just about vertical, have a look at the hinges you will see a long tab on each side that will clip back in manually when the bonnet goes right up.

I encourage all Land Rover owners to tackle some jobs on their machine, if nothing else but to give an insight on where the big dollars go when paying me to do it [tonguewink]

[Discodicky]

Am getting a bit too far ahead of your current progress, but may I offer the following thoughts for when you start the rebuild as this is the course of action I'll take in the event I suffer the same problem.

Use only Genuine engine crankshaft and bearing shells or be well satisfied that other parts are made to OEM specs.

On that subject, it appears there has been several/a few incidents whereby overhauled engines have only lasted minimal klms and then once again suffered same fate of bearing/crankshaft seizure.

On the face of it, and without knowing exact failure causes, to me these failures strongly suggest the bearing crush has been insufficient which had allowed the shell to rotate and thus once again block the oil feed hole.
Was the crush properly checked during assembly, or were the non genuine (if fitted) bearings the cause of the crush failure? Who knows?

I would be taking my conrods to an engine rebuild specialist along the lines of a company who prepare racing engines as these guys know the tricks and how to 'properly' assemble an engine to make it last!
I'd be asking about the pros and cons of pinning the bearing shell in each conrod cap, thus preventing that shell from spinning which in turn will prevent its conrod shell from spinning.

I'd strongly consider getting that engine specialist to assemble the bottom end for you, fitting pistons as well, so he has in fact built the "short" engine assembly.

Just a thought, anyway!

Good luck with the rebuild, I hope it all goes well. It's a fairly 'bland' engine as engines go, so just be careful and thorough with the rebuild and I'm sure you'll be ok.

[josh.huber]

I'd be getting the block checked properly especially the tunnel bore

[Fabsky]

I’m loving the 1minute format! How are the thighs feeling after three days of doing squats?

Magnificent effort.

Were you were able to get that exhaust cross over out entirely via access through the wheel arches?



I have to disappoint you because unfortunately not. Access from the side of the wheel arch will allow very poor access to the nuts that connect the cross over pipe with the turbochargers. It is quite a challenge to get to the area where the engine is connected to the gearbox and right above them, where the cross over pipe runs, you can only tangibly touch and unscrew the bracket that holds the this blody pipe. And just for this activity, unfortunately, you have to lie under the car. If you unscrew everything, you will be able to remove this tube through the wheel arch.

[Jeffoir]

Fabian
legendary work performed by you in these videos.
extremely well done.
thank you for sharing.
best wishes.
jeffoir

[PerthDisco]

Am getting a bit too far ahead of your current progress, but may I offer the following thoughts for when you start the rebuild as this is the course of action I'll take in the event I suffer the same problem.

Use only Genuine engine crankshaft and bearing shells or be well satisfied that other parts are made to OEM specs.

On that subject, it appears there has been several/a few incidents whereby overhauled engines have only lasted minimal klms and then once again suffered same fate of bearing/crankshaft seizure.

On the face of it, and without knowing exact failure causes, to me these failures strongly suggest the bearing crush has been insufficient which had allowed the shell to rotate and thus once again block the oil feed hole.
Was the crush properly checked during assembly, or were the non genuine (if fitted) bearings the cause of the crush failure? Who knows?

I would be taking my conrods to an engine rebuild specialist along the lines of a company who prepare racing engines as these guys know the tricks and how to 'properly' assemble an engine to make it last!
I'd be asking about the pros and cons of pinning the bearing shell in each conrod cap, thus preventing that shell from spinning which in turn will prevent its conrod shell from spinning.

I'd strongly consider getting that engine specialist to assemble the bottom end for you, fitting pistons as well, so he has in fact built the "short" engine assembly.

Just a thought, anyway!

Good luck with the rebuild, I hope it all goes well. It's a fairly 'bland' engine as engines go, so just be careful and thorough with the rebuild and I'm sure you'll be ok.

I think with a crank fail you need to be crossing your fingers there’s no excessive damage to the bearing carriers. Verifying the block can be reused is first step.

[Fabsky]

Thank you very much for all the hints and kind words. Thank you, it inspires me very positively and drives me to act on my project. If I missed someone, I am sorry but it is impossible to write back to everyone. In any case, I take every tip and advice to heart and thank you again for all your support.


181307

[chuck]

Fabsky

Well done - i probably would have just given up.

Hope all goes well and the rebuild is good as can possibly be.

[Fabsky]

Here we go back to the game....


https://youtu.be/P9tG6TeL3A0

[DiscoJeffster]

It looked so peaceful until you removed a piece of the crank, disconnected from the other piece [emoji51]

[BradC]

Araldite sticks to steel if you prep it right.

[loanrangie]

Araldite sticks to steel if you prep it right.I don't think it will hold a crank together though [emoji28].

[akovach]

Just wondering why you didn't take the body off? You spent 3 days getting it out with a remarkable effort. A workshop can get the body off in about 4 hours making the engine removal so much easier. Wondering more out of curiosity.

[DiscoJeffster]

I don't think it will hold a crank together though [emoji28].

You don’t think?

[Graeme]

Just wondering why you didn't take the body off? You spent 3 days getting it out with a remarkable effort. A workshop can get the body off in about 4 hours making the engine removal so much easier. Wondering more out of curiosity.
A brother recently removed the body from his RRS using a friend's 2-post hoist which took him 3 full days.

[PerthDisco]

Just wondering why you didn't take the body off? You spent 3 days getting it out with a remarkable effort. A workshop can get the body off in about 4 hours making the engine removal so much easier. Wondering more out of curiosity.

Because doing DIY the car will need to be out of action for possibly a very long time finding parts and once body removed using a hoist you are in an awkward position what to do with it. Even pushing the engineless hulk back into a corner of the workshop might not be possible for months. At least this way it’s in a place it can stay.

My experience is it’s about a 4-6 month process allowing for parts sourcing shipping and all associated phaffing around.

Hopefully you’ll paint the block British Racing Green and go the full experience ha!

[Mikey Schultz]

Hello to all.
So I bought a Disco 3 TD V6 which had overheated and I was advised by all to steer clear of rebuilding the engine.
My thoughts were if you can build and put together an engine, surely you can rebuild it so I did. I had to resleeve the block, new pistons, rings bearings, heads done, new belts and turbo. The whole job set me back in South African Rands 130k.
The point of this message is to check the cylinders for cracks. We nearly missed it. Crank was fortunately not cracked.
Regards

[disco gazza]

Just shy of $11250 Aust.
Not bad..

DG

[Fabsky]

Just wondering why you didn't take the body off? You spent 3 days getting it out with a remarkable effort. A workshop can get the body off in about 4 hours making the engine removal so much easier. Wondering more out of curiosity.



1) Graeme (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/9684.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/statusicon/user-online.pngSwaggieVendor




Join DateJan 1970LocationNSW SW SlopesPosts10,940Post Thanks / Like https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/buttons/collapse_40b.png (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/292761-3-0-tdv6-broken-crankshaft-engine-rebuild-3.html#top)




https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by akovach https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/292761-3-0-tdv6-broken-crankshaft-engine-rebuild-post3166519.html#post3166519)
Just wondering why you didn't take the body off? You spent 3 days getting it out with a remarkable effort. A workshop can get the body off in about 4 hours making the engine removal so much easier. Wondering more out of curiosity.



A brother recently removed the body from his RRS using a friend's 2-post hoist which took him 3 full days.


2)
PerthDisco (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/45193.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/statusicon/user-offline.pngChatterBoxSubscriber




Join DateOct 2012LocationPerthPosts2,047Post Thanks / Like https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/buttons/collapse_40b.png (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/292761-3-0-tdv6-broken-crankshaft-engine-rebuild-3.html#top)


3.0 TDV6 broken crankshaft / engine rebuild



https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by akovach https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/292761-3-0-tdv6-broken-crankshaft-engine-rebuild-post3166519.html#post3166519)
Just wondering why you didn't take the body off? You spent 3 days getting it out with a remarkable effort. A workshop can get the body off in about 4 hours making the engine removal so much easier. Wondering more out of curiosity.



Because doing DIY the car will need to be out of action for possibly a very long time finding parts and once body removed using a hoist you are in an awkward position what to do with it. Even pushing the engineless hulk back into a corner of the workshop might not be possible for months. At least this way it’s in a place it can stay.

My experience is it’s about a 4-6 month process allowing for parts sourcing shipping and all associated phaffing around.





Generally answering the question .. nothing else to add.

[ATH]

Whilst looking around at new cars to maybe replace the D4, I saw that new Ford Everest Sport and Platinum are running 3ltr V6s. Aren't these the same engines as our Discos are running? If so, why won't they fit if we do suffer the unimaginable?
Anyone know what the difference is, if any?
AlanH.

[Fabsky]

Going further after the initial analysis, we have evidence of what happened...



181350181354181355181356181349

181353181358181360

[PerthDisco]

Just shy of $11250 Aust.
Not bad..

DG

As long as broken crank hasn’t ruined the block overheating could be worse as leads to cracked bores and definitely warped ali heads all which needs stripping, fixing and rebuild. The OP could get away with everything above the crank as-is possibly ( save for gaskets and a light refresh).

Will be really interesting to see the damage report. Is it anew coffee table or not?

[Discodicky]

Going further after the initial analysis, we have evidence of what happened...



181350181354181355181356181349

181353181358181360

This is a bit of a worry, since unless my eyes deceive me, there is no apparent sign of seizure caused by spun bearing shells blocking off oil flow, followed by/causing broken crankshaft.
Rather, it looks like the shaft just simply broke for no obvious reason???
I hope that was not the case!
Can you comment please as to your thoughts why it broke?

[Graeme]

Even appearing to have been part-cracked for some time, but perhaps just the light.

[PerthDisco]

You can see that tiny flange between pistons 1/2 and 3/4 has the weight of the world on its shoulders being furthest from the flywheel end. It is definitely the weakest link in the chain.

[SimmAus]

Just shy of $11250 Aust.
Not bad..

DG

Understatement of the year…

[Fabsky]

This is a bit of a worry, since unless my eyes deceive me, there is no apparent sign of seizure caused by spun bearing shells blocking off oil flow, followed by/causing broken crankshaft.
Rather, it looks like the shaft just simply broke for no obvious reason???
I hope that was not the case!
Can you comment please as to your thoughts why it broke?

Yes that's right, it looks like none of the crankshaft shells have turned. On the other hand, it can be seen that one of the crankshaft support bearing shell is heavily worn. I think that it could be defective, which contributed to the beating of the shaft at both ends, which can be inferred from the visible worn outer shells. The crankshaft was subject to vibrations and due to material fatigue, it simply did not resist and cracked.

I would like to know the opinions of more experienced colleagues.

[Graeme]

You can see that tiny flange between pistons 1/2 and 3/4 has the weight of the world on its shoulders being furthest from the flywheel end. It is definitely the weakest link in the chain.and there's a hole through the middle of it!

[Graeme]

Was it in Malaysia where LR tested all vehicles and replaced engines that failed the undisclosed test? Was it a test for vibration / balance?

[chuck]

Looking at the photos of the crank there seems to be some sort of tubular hollow in the crank almost like there was some sort of void in the steel.

[BradC]

Looking at the photos of the crank there seems to be some sort of tubular hollow in the crank almost like there was some sort of void in the steel.

Looked like an oil passage to me.

[josh.huber]

If you get the crank to Newcastle somehow, I have a guy who teaches failure analysis. Has done for 20 years. Could give him a look

[johnhorgan]

You have to be very careful re-using a snapped crank block. The last one I removed I had to sledgehammer the broken pieces of crankshaft out in order to remove the torque converter (I could not turn the engine).
The 2.7 engine is almost the same as the 3.0, the only noticeable difference being the breather outlet in the v of the block (the hole comes from a slightly different position). The modification is due to the 3.0 fuel pump being slightly taller.
I routed the breather pipe to fresh air to overcome the difference, but you could cut and shut the original breather unit to fit.
The only other update was to replace the main and big end bearing shells. All of the engines I have dismantled whether running or not have had noticeable wear on the shells, with many having missing thrust washers.
The 2.7 engine performs well, its hard to tell the difference.
This is a very good site to visit; DISCO3.CO.UK - Index (https://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/)

[Pippin]

You have to be very careful re-using a snapped crank block. The last one I removed I had to sledgehammer the broken pieces of crankshaft out in order to remove the torque converter (I could not turn the engine).
The 2.7 engine is almost the same as the 3.0, the only noticeable difference being the breather outlet in the v of the block (the hole comes from a slightly different position). The modification is due to the 3.0 fuel pump being slightly taller.
I routed the breather pipe to fresh air to overcome the difference, but you could cut and shut the original breather unit to fit.
The only other update was to replace the main and big end bearing shells. All of the engines I have dismantled whether running or not have had noticeable wear on the shells, with many having missing thrust washers.
The 2.7 engine performs well, its hard to tell the difference.
This is a very good site to visit; DISCO3.CO.UK - Index (https://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/)? The major difference is the stroke of the crank and the size of the bore of the block which are both greater.

[PerthDisco]

? The major difference is the stroke of the crank and the size of the bore of the block which are both greater.

And a heap more power and torque.

[Pippin]

And a heap more power and torque.Which may be the source of the high number of bearing/crank failures!

[Graeme]

What build date and kms travelled for this vehicle please?

[PerthDisco]

Which may be the source of the high number of bearing/crank failures!

That tiny bit extra stroke increases the offset of the rod journal from the main crank journal compared to a 2.7 also just a few fractions without the room to beef up the metal in between.

Anyway, I think people generally have the mindset that manufacturers leave a huge amount of no risk untapped HP up their sleeve. I am not in this camp. It would be interesting if this engine was running a stock tune.

[Fabsky]

What build date and kms travelled for this vehicle please?


2010
200k

[Fabsky]

That tiny bit extra stroke increases the offset of the rod journal from the main crank journal compared to a 2.7 also just a few fractions without the room to beef up the metal in between.

Anyway, I think people generally have the mindset that manufacturers leave a huge amount of no risk untapped HP up their sleeve. I am not in this camp. It would be interesting if this engine was running a stock tune.


As far as I know stock tune.

[Graeme]

2010
200k
Thanks. My son who has a 2009 build at 290K was asking. He doesn't recall hearing about crankshaft issues with the very first 3.0 engines.

[hisnhers]

Just shy of $11250 Aust.
Not bad..

DG

That's what I'm paying for my replacement engine - and then add labour to do the swap.

Hats off to the OP, thats a big job, but you look like you know what you are doing. I tried the same but i dont have the space, the time or the will to have a car out for that long.

[kelvo]

Was it in Malaysia where LR tested all vehicles and replaced engines that failed the undisclosed test? Was it a test for vibration / balance?
No, it was in South Korea and China where all JLR vehicles with the 3.0ltr V6 diesel were ‘recalled’ for the ‘special inspection’.

[scarry]

No, it was in South Korea and China where all JLR vehicles with the 3.0ltr V6 diesel were ‘recalled’ for the ‘special inspection’.

So what did they "inspect",and how did they do it?

[Graeme]

I didn't glean anything about the test at the time other than that the test was rather quick. I wondered if it was a vibration test, perhaps at specific revs and presumably with the serpentine belt and possibly the harmonic balancer removed.

[kelvo]

So what did they "inspect",and how did they do it?

Quote from someone who had theirs ‘inspected’ in China,
“The car was plugged into computer. There seemed to be a metal box with a pipe in and out about small shoe box size sitting on front cowl dont know what it was plugged into. Mine was also getting a new battery and a sport was parked next to mine getting test done. A lot of rev..idle etc they said mine would be next and would take 40 mins (mostly to get engine warm I suspect) as they were still changing battery i went for a light lunch expecting to return mid test but after 15 mins I returned it was all done.

They did add 500ml of oil(free) so i guess test required oil to max.

Not much else to say. I am sure some people can track the test code which was on the paper to find more info”

There was supposedly a 100% pass rate of the vehicles inspected.

[Discodicky]

Yes that's right, it looks like none of the crankshaft shells have turned. On the other hand, it can be seen that one of the crankshaft support bearing shell is heavily worn. I think that it could be defective, which contributed to the beating of the shaft at both ends, which can be inferred from the visible worn outer shells. The crankshaft was subject to vibrations and due to material fatigue, it simply did not resist and cracked.

I would like to know the opinions of more experienced colleagues.

Can you see any obvious wear or damage to the engine harmonic balancer pulley?
I am wondering if this component should be a serviceable item at say, 100,000 to 150,000 klms.
Failure of this pulley could create sufficient vibration to cause the breakage, and I'd think the most likely break area would be pretty much where yours is because the front section of the shaft is satisfactorily supported by the front main bearing. The section between the front and second mains is where I'd expect some whip to develop if the balancer is playing up.
I'd suggest you get the broken shaft crack/fatigue tested out of interest as it will help you (and us!![biggrin]) determine the cause.
.......and I still think you should discuss the situation with an engine race prep specialist who I'm sure would have a very strong opinion on the breakage when you show him the failed parts. These guys have seen all these problems on many occasions!

[Discodicky]

Am wondering if this saga is similar to that experienced by Jowett Javelin owners. Jowett Car Co in the UK produced the Javelin in the late 1940's to early 1950's. The engine was a 1.5 litre flat four along the lines of a VW engine, however the Jowett was water cooled.

It very quickly developed a rather unenviable reputation for breaking crankshafts. My father had two Javelins and broke two crankshafts....

Laystall Engineering in the UK produced an uprated shaft which instantly fixed the problem. As a young lad in the middle/late 1950's I remember dad saying that the first question a prospective S/H Javelin purchaser would ask the seller was "does it have a Laystall shaft?"... [bigwhistle]

[Deeb0]

I thought the bearing rotation is the cause of the failures?

This is the best line to take for a rebuild IMHO - I would definitely be getting the short block built by someone who does it for race engines.



Use only Genuine engine crankshaft and bearing shells or be well satisfied that other parts are made to OEM specs.

On the face of it, and without knowing exact failure causes, to me these failures strongly suggest the bearing crush has been insufficient which had allowed the shell to rotate and thus once again block the oil feed hole.

I would be taking my conrods to an engine rebuild specialist along the lines of a company who prepare racing engines as these guys know the tricks and how to 'properly' assemble an engine to make it last!
I'd be asking about the pros and cons of pinning the bearing shell in each conrod cap, thus preventing that shell from spinning which in turn will prevent its conrod shell from spinning.

I'd strongly consider getting that engine specialist to assemble the bottom end for you, fitting pistons as well, so he has in fact built the "short" engine assembly.


It would be interesting to have a new genuine shaft etc balanced to see what the tolerances are.

Ideally on a rebuild you would have the block crack tested (& either sleeved, honed or bored), then shaft & HB balanced then the rods and the pistons balanced so the whole short block (ends, bearings etc) is clearanced appropriately and balanced again?? Solving for longevity not max HP...

I'm sure I have also seen that you can also order a whole short block from the UK.

[JonathanDC]

Hello everyone. In my Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 it refused to obey and more precisely the crankshaft broke. I decided to fix it myself. I am addressing all those who have done it before, that is, what is also worth paying attention to / refreshing beyond the main fault so that the engine will be used as long as possible.
Can anyone recommend proven sources where it is best to buy engine parts? I will also be grateful if someone has a shop manual for the engine with technical data.
I tried to search this extensive forum but couldn't find the information I was looking for. If I missed something, I am sorry.

Cheers
Fabian

So I just did an entire swap after the piston connecting rod went through the block. The crankshaft along with the piston assembly is an accident waiting to happen. There’s actually a recall out specifically for this on the 2015 Disco S (NHTSA 15V069000) but Land Rover is waiting to get enough people with seized engines because of this to actually do anything about it

[kelvo]

So I just did an entire swap after the piston connecting rod went through the block. The crankshaft along with the piston assembly is an accident waiting to happen. There’s actually a recall out specifically for this on the 2015 Disco S (NHTSA 15V069000) but Land Rover is waiting to get enough people with seized engines because of this to actually do anything about it
That would be the 3.0ltr supercharged petrol engines. These have a different crank/block to the 3.0ltr Diesel engines.

[101RRS]

Yes I believe they use the Jaguar V8 block with rear two pistons and conrods etc removed.

[Fabsky]

Hi guys, small update. Search for the crankshaft in AU with no results. I found a new original one in Europe. The parcel was delivered last Thursday (8 days from placing the order) plus some few parts from au as well 😎




181580181581181582

[101RRS]

It really does look like a flimsy crankshaft - no wonder the Yanks beefed it up to go into US Ford vehicles.

[Graeme]

Are there any differences between the 2 that might indicate a different casting or manufacturer?
Are there any markings that indicate the manufacture date of the new one?

[discomatt69]

Thatis the weakest looking crank I have ever seen, I am certainly no expert but it looks like it wants to snap, sit a crank from an engine that is known for bottom end strength next to it....

[Graeme]

The TDV8 crank makes the TDV6 crank look very fragile.

[Fabsky]

Are there any differences between the 2 that might indicate a different casting or manufacturer?
Are there any markings that indicate the manufacture date of the new one?



They even look the same. The same type of marking with the difference that the new one was produced in 2022

[101RRS]

I found a new original one in Europe.


They even look the same. The same type of marking with the difference that the new one was produced in 2022

Hang on - you say the new one is an original and made in 2022 - wasn't the 3.0 TDV6 used in LRs, Jags, Citreons etc stopped in around 2018. So if made in 2022 not likely to be an original. All later 3.0 cranks would have been for the Ford Powerstroke engine in the Ford F150 - it has a crank with thicker journals so not compatiable with the older 3.0s.

[Graeme]

Its not inconceivable that the cranks are still be made as spare parts considering the incidence of failure diminishing stocks of spares and how recently the engines were fitted new. However I would have preferred an obvious difference but there could be differences not externally discernible.

[DiscoDB]

They even look the same. The same type of marking with the difference that the new one was produced in 2022

Fabsky- can you please post a photo of the markings on both ends of the crankshaft (front and rear) for both the original and new crankshaft.

You may have confirmed the new modified Powerstroke crank can be fitted to the older 3.0TDV6.

Ford also changed the bearing material spec for the Powerstroke version as well.

[Graeme]

Are you going to re-use the conrods for #1 & #2, being on that part of the shaft that ran with only 1 main bearing? I'd be concerned that they might have bent.

[DiscoDB]

All later 3.0 cranks would have been for the Ford Powerstroke engine in the Ford F150 - it has a crank with thicker journals so not compatiable with the older 3.0s.

Not sure where you read this, but I recall an article where Ford claimed the the changes made to the rotating components (namely the crankshaft) would also flow through to the last of the LR engines.

At least this was the claim made during the period when the Powerstroke was being made for the US F-150 (before it was discontinued) and which overlapped with the last of the LR supplied engines.

If true, they would still need to supply spare crankshafts for the US market for some time, and would then mean they are still available for the LR engines.

[Gravy]

[happycry]The more pictures I see, the greater my heart palpitations. For a diesel engine with its associated high compression ratio the crank strength looks under done. Hope mine is going to remain in one piece, certainly not going to enter any drag races i am into 200K numbers now so maybe I have a good one.

[chuck]

Not sure where you read this, but I recall an article where Ford claimed the the changes made to the rotating components (namely the crankshaft) would also flow through to the last of the LR engines.

At least this was the claim made during the period when the Powerstroke was being made for the US F-150 (before it was discontinued) and which overlapped with the last of the LR supplied engines.

If true, they would still need to supply spare crankshafts for the US market for some time, and would then mean they are still available for the LR engines.

Better still - that power stroke motor is in the Ford Ranger

[DiscoDB]

Better still - that power stroke motor is in the Ford Ranger

True - but we don’t know if Ford Australia (lead engineer for the Ranger) made any further changes to the motor after Ford US stopped using it in the F-150. I suspect it is the same crank though (but we all know what they say about never assume anything).

[Discodicky]

Hi guys, small update. Search for the crankshaft in AU with no results. I found a new original one in Europe. The parcel was delivered last Thursday (8 days from placing the order) plus some few parts from au as well 😎




181580181581181582



Did you try an Australian Land Rover distributor for the crankshaft? (who sells the vehicles and the genuine parts)

[Fabsky]

Fabsky- can you please post a photo of the markings on both ends of the crankshaft (front and rear) for both the original and new crankshaft.

You may have confirmed the new modified Powerstroke crank can be fitted to the older 3.0TDV6.

Ford also changed the bearing material spec for the Powerstroke version as well.


There you go..


181607181608181609181610181611


All shell journal dimensions are the same as those of the old crankshaft.

[Graeme]

The casting numbers are different, the oil hole in the 3rd main is in a different position and possibly in the 2nd main too, both of which are adjacent to thin cranked sections and at least 1 oil hole has more chamfer so hopefully improvements have been made.

[DiscoJeffster]

The casting numbers are different, the oil hole in the 3rd main is in a different position and possibly in the 2nd main too, both of which are adjacent to thin cranked sections and at least 1 oil hole has more chamfer so hopefully improvements have been made.

Many of oil supply holes are in different places.

[DiscoDB]

You look to be on a winner there Fabsky. Thanks for posting the photos.

[TroyDiscoveryPerth]

Unfortunately I only just found this forum.
After owning a 2014 Discovery 4, TDV6 for 4 years, 160k km - full service history from Southern LandRover in Cannington. Absolute brilliant car, I had the engine fail yesterday. Quoted $35k for a new engine. I’m gutted..

[simonmelb]

That's no good!

See more here: D4 3.0 SDV6 catastrophic failure (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/280851-d4-3-0-sdv6-catastrophic-failure.html)


Unfortunately I only just found this forum.
After owning a 2014 Discovery 4, TDV6 for 4 years, 160k km - full service history from Southern LandRover in Cannington. Absolute brilliant car, I had the engine fail yesterday. Quoted $35k for a new engine. I’m gutted..

[Eric SDV6SE]

It looked so peaceful until you removed a piece of the crank, disconnected from the other piece [emoji51]

Agreed, all looked great until the flywheel was turned and the back end didn't.

[RHS58]

It’s been 3 weeks since the last post on this topic.
How goes the rebuild, Fabsky?

[loanrangie]

Unfortunately I only just found this forum.
After owning a 2014 Discovery 4, TDV6 for 4 years, 160k km - full service history from Southern LandRover in Cannington. Absolute brilliant car, I had the engine fail yesterday. Quoted $35k for a new engine. I’m gutted..

I'd be having a chat with that dealer and pushing for a replacement.

[Discodicky]

Unfortunately I only just found this forum.
After owning a 2014 Discovery 4, TDV6 for 4 years, 160k km - full service history from Southern LandRover in Cannington. Absolute brilliant car, I had the engine fail yesterday. Quoted $35k for a new engine. I’m gutted..

Sorry to hear the bad news. Shop around, as a new engine will have turbo's, fuel pump etc etc and you don't need those at 160,000k. Talk to reputable engine reconditioners as that will be you best option.

Essential you discuss with LR Australia if you have full service history, and if no initial success, try a Lawyers letter!
Suggest they provide the engine FOC and you pay the remainder.

When you say full service history, how many klms between oil changes did you do?
There is some feeling that LR's schedule of 23,000 is partially the cause of seized bearings.

Many of us stick to 8-12,000 klms.

Hope you get a successful outcome from LR.

[John_D4]

Can’t remember the exact amount, but I had a talk with TRS here in Adelaide a couple of weeks ago, and they were talking sub $20k for a low mileage TDV8 installed. I didn’t get an exact figure but I was surprised as I’ve heard that it was like $30-50k, but I got the feeling that $25k or so was about right

[Bulletman]

Can’t remember the exact amount, but I had a talk with TRS here in Adelaide a couple of weeks ago, and they were talking sub $20k for a low mileage TDV8 installed. I didn’t get an exact figure but I was surprised as I’ve heard that it was like $30-50k, but I got the feeling that $25k or so was about right

If they are talking sub $20k then that is certainly something worth considering if you are 1 of the unlucky people with a blown engine.
Cheers Bulletman

[RHS58]

Recently had the intake manifolds replaced after one failed.
Mechanic said (lightheartedly?) the crankshaft will be next, and I’ve been anxious ever since.
Wonder what the rate of broken crankshafts really is?
Obviously we hear more on forums about the engine failures from unhappy owners.
It’s the $30,000 question.
1% failure rate I will live with.
5% take my chances.
10% might be time to unload it.
Is the risk higher the older it gets or more km it’s done?
Is it particular model years or engines?
What does one replace a D4 with?

[101RRS]

but I had a talk with TRS here in Adelaide a couple of weeks ago, and they were talking sub $20k for a low mileage TDV8 installed.

I am sure that is to replace a TDV8 with a TDV8 in a TDV8 fitted vehicle - eg RRS/RR

[John_D4]

I am sure that is to replace a TDV8 with a TDV8 in a TDV8 fitted vehicle - eg RRS/RR

No. I was talking to Ian (owner) and we were discussing hypothetical options should the worst happen to my 2013 D4. I was shocked at how much cheaper he said it would cost compared to what I thought was a ‘going rate’.

Just to clarify further, TRS don’t do servicing anymore, but he gave the name of a place that’s done a few that he was aware of. Can’t remember the name sorry.

We discussed the matter at great length and he left me with the opinion that regular 10k servicing is probs the best thing that you can do. Apart from that it’s a 1-2% failure rate…I’m happy with those odds. If the worst does happen I’ll probs put in a TDV8

[SimmAus]

No. I was talking to Ian (owner) and we were discussing hypothetical options should the worst happen to my 2013 D4. I was shocked at how much cheaper he said it would cost compared to what I thought was a ‘going rate’.

Just to clarify further, TRS don’t do servicing anymore, but he gave the name of a place that’s done a few that he was aware of. Can’t remember the name sorry.

We discussed the matter at great length and he left me with the opinion that regular 10k servicing is probs the best thing that you can do. Apart from that it’s a 1-2% failure rate…I’m happy with those odds. If the worst does happen I’ll probs put in a TDV8

A TDV8 into a D4 has only been done a handful (if that) of times afaik. There was a thread on here where the bloke went through the process and cost >$50k iirc. His parting comment was…it was fun, and the vehicle is fun…but I wouldn’t do it again.

Hoping I’m wrong, or at least someone has figured it out well…and not in the $50k range…

[BradC]

A TDV8 into a D4 has only been done a handful (if that) of times afaik. There was a thread on here where the bloke went through the process and cost >$50k iirc. His parting comment was…it was fun, and the vehicle is fun…but I wouldn’t do it again.

Hoping I’m wrong, or at least someone has figured it out well…and not in the $50k range…

Like anything (within reason), every time it gets done someone figures out an easier and cheaper method. The time and experimentation required to develop the process is what costs the big bucks.

[John_D4]

Agreed. I was surprised as well. I can only tell you what Ian told me tho. I seem to recall him saying something like a low mileage TDV8 being sub $15k and less than $10k labour and bits and pieces.

I’m sure he’d have no issues discussing it if someone wanted to call him.

He did tell me that a 2013 with a blown engine was worth about $10k (assuming he’s talking about how TRS would buy it from me. Adding $25k for a TDV8 in my books makes it an affordable option given the price of a replacement car, if you’re happy with the car body and trans.

[scarry]

I doubt there are many second hand,low K's, TDV8 LR engines around.

[loanrangie]

I doubt there are many second hand,low K's, TDV8 LR engines around.I don't, these are toorak tractors and don't see high mileage usually.

[Discodicky]

Agreed. I was surprised as well. I can only tell you what Ian told me tho. I seem to recall him saying something like a low mileage TDV8 being sub $15k and less than $10k labour and bits and pieces.

I’m sure he’d have no issues discussing it if someone wanted to call him.

He did tell me that a 2013 with a blown engine was worth about $10k (assuming he’s talking about how TRS would buy it from me. Adding $25k for a TDV8 in my books makes it an affordable option given the price of a replacement car, if you’re happy with the car body and trans.

One would think that it is possible to re-co one's own 3.0 engine including R&R engine etc could be done for around $25k?
And it appears the replacement crankshaft has been updated, so the engine should last "forever".[bigwhistle]

[haydent]

On the topic of tdv8 Why do 2.7 cranks break? (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/288338-why-do-2-7-cranks-break-post3119039.html#post3119039)
"Also for anyone wondering, here is TDV6 vs TDV8 crank for comparison, much thicker !"

[haydent]

Also , maybe just put a bmw or ranger engine in....

[Fabsky]

It’s been 3 weeks since the last post on this topic.
How goes the rebuild, Fabsky?



Hi everyone,
I haven't posted in a while because there was nothing to talk about.
Generally, I did not sleep and worked on the project such as searching for parts and ordering them, work related to cleaning engine components that will not be replaced, etc..
As a result, several packages from Europe, USA and AU have arrived, and there are quite a few.
Now to the point..
The engine block went to the machine shop for a treatment (details will be revealed as soon as I receive the block from the workshop), in addition, I decided that I will also entrust the heads to professionals for comprehensive service (checking the plane / possible machining, checking the valve faces and valve guides, replacing valve stem seals etc. In addition, the connecting rods were also inspected for the fault that affected the engine.
I am full of hope that this week I will be able to collect everything from the workshop. I also gave all the injectors on the machine for testing. The turbochargers showed very little play on the rotor, so they were only well cleaned.


182171 182172 182173 182174 182175 182176 182177



https://youtu.be/AyHAez976uM
https://youtu.be/gCU4YhX4ouU

[Jeffoir]

Hi Fabian
thanks for the update.
Wow Wee!!! Excellent commitment to this rebuild.
so impressive. looking forward to learning more as you progress and succeed.
thank you once again.
best wishes
Jeff.

[Deeb0]

Hi everyone,
...The engine block went to the machine shop for a treatment (details will be revealed as soon as I receive the block from the workshop), in addition, I decided that I will also entrust the heads to professionals for comprehensive service (checking the plane / possible machining, checking the valve faces and valve guides, replacing valve stem seals etc. In addition, the connecting rods were also inspected for the fault that affected the engine...

Fabian, this is great news, happy to hear its progressing well.

I'm really interested in hearing what was done to the short block and who did it.

So once you have everything back you will assemble the short block, heads and ancillaries yourself?

[Graeme]

In addition, the connecting rods were also inspected for the fault that affected the engine.
Are you re-using the conrods from the front 2 cylinders after that section of the crankshaft was unsupported at 1 end? The pistons could also have been damaged.

[Fabsky]

Hi everyone ☺️

The stuff is already in the Fabsky’s garage 🪚🪓🪜⚖️🧯 Tomorrow we're going to wash and measure 😎

182199182200182201182202

[Fabsky]

Fabian, this is great news, happy to hear its progressing well.

I'm really interested in hearing what was done to the short block and who did it.

So once you have everything back you will assemble the short block, heads and ancillaries yourself?


That's right, I leave only machining to trusted and proven specialists. All the rest in my hands .. with the rest as always ☺️

182203

[Fabsky]

After a short break, I'm back to the project. And that's it in short..☺️


https://youtu.be/QK_lGLwXT7g

[BradC]

Did you measure the bearing clearances?

[Fabsky]

Ok, now two words about the work that has been done.


In general, despite the failure of the engine, the block was not damaged and was within the specification tolerance.
However, work has been done to refresh the surface, such as:
- cylinder honing
- resurface of the block decks
- grinding / re-honing the tunnel bore for new bearings.

I decided to use bearing shells from King Bearings because of the much larger oil delivery hole.
As for the oil clearance on the main shaft, they oscillate between 0.050, 0.058 and 0.060mm


182804

[Jeffoir]

Seasons Greetings Fab,
once again, you’re commitment is extremely impressive.
well done and thank you.
looking forward to learning more.
best wishes for 2033
jeff

[discomatt69]

Seasons Greetings Fab,
once again, you’re commitment is extremely impressive.
well done and thank you.
looking forward to learning more.
best wishes for 2033
jeff

MMM what about the next 10 years?
Best wishes with the build in 2023 as well

[Fabsky]

Welcome everyone in the New Year. I hope it brings the best to everyone 🤘


https://youtu.be/hpnEYYqurSI

[Fabsky]

And my joy of rebuilding the engine was gone like a soap bubble...
During the next stage of the final assembly of the engine, I noticed a micro crack on the block near the ear where it is directly bolted timing belt idler pulley.
The ear does not bear the slightest traces of impact and the frontal plane is perfectly flat. The only thing that comes to my mind is that maybe this crack was caused by vibrations or the screw that holds the wheel was tightened with too much force during the timing belt replacement?
Is there anyone who can advise me if welding from the inside (inner left and right corners) will solve the problem?
Or maybe some other solution?
I will be grateful for any suggestions.

182896182897182898182899182900

[BradC]

I can't find any info on welding CGI (I was going to say reliably welding, but I've turned up pretty much nothing).

Edit after the post by Graeme below. I'd be more tempted to Braze it up. The only other repair process I'm familiar with for Iron is stitching, but that's a sod of a spot.

Have to say I'm gutted for you at this point. This might be one of those cases where you need to seek advice from a an old (read as "experienced") engine builder or machinist with experience with Iron.

[Graeme]

Welding consumable research for compacted graphite cast iron | SpringerLink (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02834033)

The article is dated 1991 so hopefully more current information is available.

[Fattima]

I've had a cast iron engine block welded up in the past, so it can be done. Engine was assembled (Lotus engine) and had an accident on the dyno causing damage. As stated a good engine builder should be able to recommend someone, sadly the guy I used has passed away.

[haydent]

And my joy of rebuilding the engine was gone like a soap bubble...
During the next stage of the final assembly of the engine, I noticed a micro crack on the block near the ear where it is directly bolted timing belt idler pulley.
The ear does not bear the slightest traces of impact and the frontal plane is perfectly flat. The only thing that comes to my mind is that maybe this crack was caused by vibrations or the screw that holds the wheel was tightened with too much force during the timing belt replacement?
Is there anyone who can advise me if welding from the inside (inner left and right corners) will solve the problem?
Or maybe some other solution?
I will be grateful for any suggestions.

182896182897182898182899182900

[bawl]

you would think for it to crack there the lower bolt would stop the top tab flexing back that way...

i tried to find a good image in the manual of what mounts on there but couldnt, does the idler mount into all four bolt holes ?

[Graeme]

Isn't that the bolt hole for the cambelt idler pulley that would be pulled upwards by the belt?

I would be looking at fabricating a plate that bolts under the heads of the top bolt and the 2 idler pulley bolts below to make a triangle. The cover would probably have to be modified for clearance but that should provide support for the top bolt without trying to weld the cracks.

Edit: The idler pulley bolts are well recessed so can't simply bolt a plate under those.
What's the use of the hole directly below the top hole and is it threaded? A bespoke bolt for the centre idler pulley could allow a brace to the hole below if it is usable.

[Jeffoir]

Heh Fab,
that’a a bummer.
however, you have demonstrated immense patience and superb judgement to get this Far. A solution will be available, it might just take some hunting down.
i wish you every success and will ask a metallurgist that I know, what he thinks?
Keep on swinging Champ!

[Jeffoir]

Heh Fab,
that’a a bummer.
however, you have demonstrated immense patience and superb judgement to get this Far. A solution will be available, it might just take some hunting down.
i wish you every success and will ask a metallurgist that I know, what he thinks?
Keep on swinging Champ!

he said try the Australian Welding Institute in Adelaide (https://welding.org.au/contact-us/). They have a Technical Advice line at that phone number. Best wishes. Jeff

[Eric SDV6SE]

Shame. Welding cast iron is not easy but can be done, low preheat and very very slow cooling. The issue is the heat input converts the CGI to white iron, making it very hard in relation to the parent metal.

Mechanically bracing it could be done, but then the issue is where to drill and fit the anchor studs.

I'm thinking if you can face mill that part down, you can then get a filler plate machined up to bolt in, if (say3-4mm high grade steel / stainless, this may be stiff enough.

[Fabsky]

Hello everyone and thank you very much for all your tips and hints. After thinking about the pros and cons, I decided to use a retaining plate to hold the idler pulley. I have already started dimensioning and today I will make a prototype version of an easy-to-work material.

[Graeme]

The staining in the crack suggests an old crack but was a crack-revealing product used to make the crack more visible and therefore it could be a recent crack?

[Discodicky]

Hello everyone and thank you very much for all your tips and hints. After thinking about the pros and cons, I decided to use a retaining plate to hold the idler pulley. I have already started dimensioning and today I will make a prototype version of an easy-to-work material.

Don't weld it, plug it.

In another life 40 yrs odd ago I rebuilt many high performance and standard "cooking" engines and often found cylinder head & block cracks which were too difficult to weld due to access or some other reason. Both cast iron as in Lotus Cortina (Ford engine) and many alloy Jaguar heads.

I had a local cylinder head expert plug the cracks with a series of interlinking plugs, sometimes as many as 8 or 12 and which were roughly 3mm in diameter from memory.

The repairs were very successful and considering the expansion rate of a cast iron cylinder block compared to a CI or alloy cylinder head I doubt you'd have a problem.

Suggest you take it to a cyl head reconditioning expert to discuss.

Good luck with it, I am very much enjoying your posts!

[Fabsky]

As I mentioned earlier, I dimensioned the detail on the engine and drew a draft in Sketchup. I printed and transferred to 8mm MDF and precisely cut and milled.

182962 182963 182965 182966

I will install the heads, camshafts and drive wheels to the end and check the belt guidance / alignment.


I will make final corrections to Sketchup and commission CNC machining from quality steel.
..I hope my imagination won't lead me into the forest..

[Graeme]

The lower idler appears to be closer to the block than your top idler due to being mounted on the plate, so why wouldn't the belt foul on the plate?

Do you really think that there would be enough strength in the recessed part of the plate considering that the cast block of much greater thickness fractured? I suspect that the bolt would distort or break out the thinner part of the plate as the fracture progressed.

Providing a diagonal brace from under the head of a longer substitute bolt and spacer to the bolt hole directly below it would prevent the bolt from being able to twist the fractured area.

[RANDLOVER]

Don't weld it, plug it.

In another life 40 yrs odd ago I rebuilt many high performance and standard "cooking" engines and often found cylinder head & block cracks which were too difficult to weld due to access or some other reason. Both cast iron as in Lotus Cortina (Ford engine) and many alloy Jaguar heads.

I had a local cylinder head expert plug the cracks with a series of interlinking plugs, sometimes as many as 8 or 12 and which were roughly 3mm in diameter from memory.

The repairs were very successful and considering the expansion rate of a cast iron cylinder block compared to a CI or alloy cylinder head I doubt you'd have a problem.

Suggest you take it to a cyl head reconditioning expert to discuss.

Good luck with it, I am very much enjoying your posts!

I agree the technique you describe is called metal stitching and there are two or three ways of doing it....Block Repair using Metal Stitching (secondchancegarage.com) (http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public4/metal-stitching-1.cfm)

Repairs Without Welding: Cold Metal Stitching - Workshop Welding (https://workshopwelding.com/what-is-cold-metal-stitching/)

Metal stitching - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_stitching)

[Fabsky]

Hello,

….a little up date....Today I received the reinforcement plate. Made of "Bisalloy 80" Everything fits as it should. Well, I am slowly approaching the end of assembling the engine.

183109 183110 183112 183113183114

[Jeffoir]

Heh Fab
well done on your progress and thank you for the update.
really keen to keep following you on this rebuild.
You’re an impressive guy.
Best, jeff.

[haydent]

so without/before that plate did the pulley just bolt through that cast tab ?

[LuckyLes]

Great job, well done. I look forward to the fireup.

[Fabsky]

…
https://youtu.be/MsPzC8N-Ac8

[Jeffoir]

Great work Fab,
as Les said, very much looking forward to “fire up”
thank You. Jeff

[Fabsky]

I am very happy to have so many positive comments. In general, the engine has some modifications.. Some I mentioned some not, because I want to check if they work....

[Fabsky]

Small update…😎


https://youtu.be/N-dGo_kaNFs

[SimmAus]

Small update…[emoji41]


https://youtu.be/N-dGo_kaNFs

That is one super clean engine…everything looks brand new.
I am amazed at your attention to detail and tenacity.
Many thanks for sharing. Hope she fires up ok.

[Graeme]

It appears that you didn't fit the plate that you made. Did you do anything about the crack?

[Jeffoir]

Heh Fab,
Looking so good! Well done.
Sending positive vibes your way...
Best, Jeff

[veebs]

I retrofitted seat heater pads in my car, and got the flattering comment back on here that it was way beyond the comment maker's skill base to do what I had done.

Watching this though, I can categorically state I am a rank amateur - This is brilliant, and i'm jealous of your soon-to-be brand new engine!

[Fabsky]

That is one super clean engine…everything looks brand new.
I am amazed at your attention to detail and tenacity.
Many thanks for sharing. Hope she fires up ok.


Thank you😎

[Fabsky]

It appears that you didn't fit the plate that you made. Did you do anything about the crack?


The retaining plate was of course installed. It was in development when I made the video. I will say more.. from the dimensions it appears that the timing belt had a distance from the plate. However, after heating the belt rubbed slightly and I had to make minor changes to the design and (re-disassembly of the timing cover again). It's finally in place and working as it should.

[Fabsky]

Heh Fab,
Looking so good! Well done.
Sending positive vibes your way...
Best, Jeff


Thanks Jeffoir 👍

[Fabsky]

I retrofitted seat heater pads in my car, and got the flattering comment back on here that it was way beyond the comment maker's skill base to do what I had done.

Watching this though, I can categorically state I am a rank amateur - This is brilliant, and i'm jealous of your soon-to-be brand new engine!


Thanks,
That's true. it is practically a brand new engine. I got a little carried away when planning the refurbishment and all internals rotating assemblies and many others were installed brand new.

[Fabsky]

https://youtu.be/MDeYHyrO7uM

Finally, the moment when the engine returned to its place after a few months of separation from the body…😋

[veebs]

Sexy AF

[DiscoJeffster]

Every time I work on an engine and go to start it, there’s always this trepidation. Will it start, will it go bang?
Congrats!

[Jeffoir]

Hi Fabsky,
Wow Wee!
You are an absolute LEGEND!
Congratulations.
A very well earned success.
wishing you many happy miles of Disco touring.
best wishes, Jeff.

[SimmAus]

Well done….amazing to see.

If you could shed some light on the final times / costs that would be appreciated….(just big fat round estimates)

Well done and congratulations (again)

[chuck]

Well done - wish you many many years of trouble free motoring.

Thank you very much for sharing

[Fabsky]

Well done - wish you many many years of trouble free motoring.

Thank you very much for sharing


thank you 👍

[Fabsky]

Hi Fabsky,
Wow Wee!
You are an absolute LEGEND!
Congratulations.
A very well earned success.
wishing you many happy miles of Disco touring.
best wishes, Jeff.


Thank you 😎👍

[Fabsky]

Well done….amazing to see.

If you could shed some light on the final times / costs that would be appreciated….(just big fat round estimates)

Well done and congratulations (again)


I will definitely be doing a summary of the entire engine repair process when it comes to the total cost, I will make it available. As for the time frame, it will be rather nue possible because I did it after hours and in my free time, more or less regularly, so I am totally unable to determine the number of hours spent on the engine.

[Tins]

Sweet! I'll bet that first turn of the key had you a little nervous.

[Fabsky]

Hi everyone,

Since the engine rebuild, I have driven the car 400 km with the first oil change after about 200 km. The engine runs very well, starts well and runs smoothly. I was alerted by the smell of burnt oil and a fine mist under the hood. I thought it was the remnants that were left (left bank) on the engine during assembly and must simply burn out. For the next few days a fine mist appeared and the smell of burning oil. I started to investigate and noticed that I have a leak to the point that after the end of the ride I leave a few drops of oil on the driveway.Do you think it could be a sign of a cracked intake manifold or a damaged gasket under the manifold?

I have one more question, because maybe someone has already had a similar situation ... While driving, it happened several times that the throtle pedal did not respond. After releasing the throtle pedal and pressing it again, everything was back to normal. I will add that during this ailment there was an error "damaged gearbox", „damaged stabilization system", "damaged braking assistance system", „broken suspension”, After turning off and restarting, everything returns to normal.

If anyone has experienced something similar before, I would be grateful for a comment.

[josh.huber]

Hi everyone,

Since the engine rebuild, I have driven the car 400 km with the first oil change after about 200 km. The engine runs very well, starts well and runs smoothly. I was alerted by the smell of burnt oil and a fine mist under the hood. I thought it was the remnants that were left (left bank) on the engine during assembly and must simply burn out. For the next few days a fine mist appeared and the smell of burning oil. I started to investigate and noticed that I have a leak to the point that after the end of the ride I leave a few drops of oil on the driveway.Do you think it could be a sign of a cracked intake manifold or a damaged gasket under the manifold?

I have one more question, because maybe someone has already had a similar situation ... While driving, it happened several times that the throtle pedal did not respond. After releasing the throtle pedal and pressing it again, everything was back to normal. I will add that during this ailment there was an error "damaged gearbox", „damaged stabilization system", "damaged braking assistance system", „broken suspension”, After turning off and restarting, everything returns to normal.

If anyone has experienced something similar before, I would be grateful for a comment.

The pedal response and errors is consistent with a brake pedal switch failure.

Photos of the mist and location? Get someone to stall the engine up for you.

[Tins]

The pedal response and errors is consistent with a brake pedal switch failure.



Be nice if it said so.

[Drharry]

Good luck with sorting your final teething issues mate 👍🏽

[martinfrench]

Hi everyone,

Since the engine rebuild, I have driven the car 400 km with the first oil change after about 200 km. The engine runs very well, starts well and runs smoothly. I was alerted by the smell of burnt oil and a fine mist under the hood. I thought it was the remnants that were left (left bank) on the engine during assembly and must simply burn out. For the next few days a fine mist appeared and the smell of burning oil. I started to investigate and noticed that I have a leak to the point that after the end of the ride I leave a few drops of oil on the driveway.Do you think it could be a sign of a cracked intake manifold or a damaged gasket under the manifold?

If anyone has experienced something similar before, I would be grateful for a comment.

When I did mine, I had a few similar issues. I had diesel leaking from one of the injector bleed off lines and also oil leaking from both rocker covers in the corners where the cam lobes meet the flat of the head. The oil (and maybe diesel) was leaking onto the exhaust and smoking - it was a pain in the ass to find as it was at the back of the engine near the vacuum/scavenger pump, so I couldn't tell exactly where it was coming from. Also the LHS was leaking at the front then down the timing belt cover down the hole at the bottom, then over the bottom of the sump.
Some sealant in the corners of the lobes (and everywhere else!) and a new bleed off line and genuine o-rings fixed both those issues.

Mine also developed a cracked manifold (in the usual spot) straight after the re-build. I should have replaced it when I had it out...
It manifested as 'Restricted Performance' and oil residue under the engine cover and over the fuel injectors. Air can also be felt and heard coming out from under the injector insulation under boost.

I also had to replace the intake manifold o-rings as oily air was escaping from there under boost. Although this didn't throw any errors... They were also only replaced 6 months before the rebuild by an indi :/. I assume it's because I replaced the manifolds with FAI ones and they might be slightly different shape than the genuine ones... Clutching at straws but the new(er) o-rings fixed it.

Hope you find it!

-Martin

[DiscoJeffster]

Yeah I had the same issue. Sealant needed on the cam lobes on the back of the intake manifold. They don’t mention this in the manual from what I can’t remember. I also had a bleed off leak. Pretty common issues from doing manifolds.

[loanrangie]

Yeah I had the same issue. Sealant needed on the cam lobes on the back of the intake manifold. They don’t mention this in the manual from what I can’t remember. I also had a bleed off leak. Pretty common issues from doing manifolds.It's mentioned in one of the diagrams for the 2.7 to use sealant in the corner of the cam caps, only for the exhaust cams.

[Fabsky]

The pedal response and errors is consistent with a brake pedal switch failure.

Photos of the mist and location? Get someone to stall the engine up for you.


You're right, thank you!! Replacing the brake switch solved the problem of the above-mentioned errors. thanks again for the advise. As for the mist I mentioned, it hasn't appeared again. Even when turning the engine revs, I couldn't see anything. The car has done another 200km since then and I started to investigate. One thing's for sure, what was leaking is not engine oil. What is leaking is the fluid of the power steering system. It's leaking somewhere around the power steering pump, but somewhere behind the pump in the back.

[350RRC]

Yeah I had the same issue. Sealant needed on the cam lobes on the back of the intake manifold. They don’t mention this in the manual from what I can’t remember. I also had a bleed off leak. Pretty common issues from doing manifolds.

Aren't the lobes the bulges on the cam(s) that push the valves down internally?

Machining buttons yr thinking of maybe?

[DiscoJeffster]

Aren't the lobes the bulges on the cam(s) that push the valves down internally?

Machining buttons yr thinking of maybe?

FFS. The end of the cam where the cam cap fixes it to the head and the intake manifold steps over.

[Tins]

FFS. The end of the cam where the cam cap fixes it to the head and the intake manifold steps over.

In my day we called those journals.

[DiscoJeffster]

In my day we called those journals.

That’s the word

[Fabsky]

Hello everyone,
I haven't posted in a long time, but I'm freaking out…
I have a problem with leaking oil all the time. At first I thought it was the power steering pump (I removed and replaced all seals). Unfortunately, wrong diagnosis. Then I took off the inlet manifold and installed a new gasket plus silicone where it should be plus a little more .... again bad diagnosis..I realized that the leak is from the front left bank cam seal. I replaced it, went to the car wash to wash the engine.. I'm going home and I'm looking under the engine.. and unfortunately it's still leaking and everything seems to be the same seal . I will add that after replacing the seal, I started the engine for some time without the timing cover and I did not observe anything at all. I'm considering options somehow the pressure in the head increases and throws oil. I will add that I have already driven 4000 km and the engine shows no suspicious movements since the rebuild, no alerts or engine errors even on IIDTool.

[DiscoJeffster]

Hello everyone,
I haven't posted in a long time, but I'm freaking out…
I have a problem with leaking oil all the time. At first I thought it was the power steering pump (I removed and replaced all seals). Unfortunately, wrong diagnosis. Then I took off the inlet manifold and installed a new gasket plus silicone where it should be plus a little more .... again bad diagnosis..I realized that the leak is from the front left bank cam seal. I replaced it, went to the car wash to wash the engine.. I'm going home and I'm looking under the engine.. and unfortunately it's still leaking and everything seems to be the same seal . I will add that after replacing the seal, I started the engine for some time without the timing cover and I did not observe anything at all. I'm considering options somehow the pressure in the head increases and throws oil. I will add that I have already driven 4000 km and the engine shows no suspicious movements since the rebuild, no alerts or engine errors even on IIDTool.

Why not just take it to someone who knows what they’re doing and ask them to correctly diagnose the issues???? Then if you’re cheap, fix it yourself. Stop guessing

[haydent]

try running with the oil cap off and see if theres much air/oil vapour pressure coming out, if so this is called blow by....

[DiscoDB]

try running with the oil cap off and see if theres much air/oil vapour pressure coming out, if so this is called blow by....

….and also will confirm that the crankcase breather isn’t restricted and causing excessive pressurisation (which will lead to oil leaks).

[DiscoDB]

Stick with it Fabsky - you know this engine better than most now.

Sounds like you will have to start stripping back some of the ancillaries around the front so you can get a good look at the source of the oil leak.

Or you need a good inspection camera on a flexible shaft with led light on the end to poke around and inspect (my next essential tool I will buy for the TDV6).

[Fabsky]

Why not just take it to someone who knows what they’re doing and ask them to correctly diagnose the issues???? Then if you’re cheap, fix it yourself. Stop guessing

In an ideal world, a sane person would probably do that. It's not guessing, it's more about getting to know, exploring this engine. My post was intended to call the board of people who could somehow point me on the right track, something I hadn't paid attention to before.

[Fabsky]

DiscoDB

“Stick with it Fabsky - you know this engine better than most now.

Don't worry, at this cognitive/research stage, I won't give up without a fight. Analyzing my rebuild, I stumbled upon something that I had not paid attention to before. I'm hoping this is exactly what I'm looking for.
I already removed the left inlet manifold and timing cover in less than 4 hours 😎

[DiscoJeffster]

Where is it leaking??? Front of the engine??

As a guide, my intake duct (bit that fits onto the throttle body / Y piece) had fractured tabs for the clip and was able to move slightly and then the intake vapour oil would leak out and down the front of the engine over all the hoses and down the front. For a small amount of oil it was a lot of mess.

[RANDLOVER]

Where is it leaking??? Front of the engine??

As a guide, my intake duct (bit that fits onto the throttle body / Y piece) had fractured tabs for the clip and was able to move slightly and then the intake vapour oil would leak out and down the front of the engine over all the hoses and down the front. For a small amount of oil it was a lot of mess.

I had a similar leak which turned out to be a combination of diesel getting through the temperature sender in the aforementioned Y-piece area, and a blanked off port on the Fomoco oil pump not sealed properly with thread tape, loctite, etc.

I should add, a leaking oil pump shaft seal can be picked up by the belt and carried up the engine and may be distributed further by the radiator fan.

[josh.huber]

Get a cheap camera, very helpful. Jay car has them.

I prefer the USB ones so you can use the bigger PC screen

[Jeffoir]

Hi Fabsky,
I’ve been entranced by your reports and videos of this rebuild. Frustrating right now, no doubt, but you will prevail. Well done Fab.
You continue to impress me. Well done and best wishes. Jeff

[Dico124]

You have to be very careful re-using a snapped crank block. The last one I removed I had to sledgehammer the broken pieces of crankshaft out in order to remove the torque converter (I could not turn the engine).
The 2.7 engine is almost the same as the 3.0, the only noticeable difference being the breather outlet in the v of the block (the hole comes from a slightly different position). The modification is due to the 3.0 fuel pump being slightly taller.
I routed the breather pipe to fresh air to overcome the difference, but you could cut and shut the original breather unit to fit.
The only other update was to replace the main and big end bearing shells. All of the engines I have dismantled whether running or not have had noticeable wear on the shells, with many having missing thrust washers.
The 2.7 engine performs well, its hard to tell the difference.
This is a very good site to visit; DISCO3.CO.UK - Index (https://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/)

Hay mate do you have any more info on this I’ve done it on a few 2.7 d4’s and was no issues so I baught a 3.0 d4 and the breather set up on the 2.7 has me worried I’ll run into other issues any info would be great cheers jay

[SimmAus]

DiscoDB

“Stick with it Fabsky - you know this engine better than most now.

Don't worry, at this cognitive/research stage, I won't give up without a fight. Analyzing my rebuild, I stumbled upon something that I had not paid attention to before. I'm hoping this is exactly what I'm looking for.
I already removed the left inlet manifold and timing cover in less than 4 hours [emoji41]

Hi Fabsky

How’s the engine running now? Did you resolve the small niggles?

[Fabsky]

Hi Fabsky

How’s the engine running now? Did you resolve the small niggles?


Hi,
problem solved obviously. The leak was caused by the oil pump. Threaded plug on top of pump plus no flat surface on pump housing. I have driven 10,000 km since rebuilding the engine and so far everything is working very well. In the meantime, I performed maintenance on the gearbox mechatronics, and flushing the entire system in the gearbox as well.

[RANDLOVER]

Hi,
problem solved obviously. The leak was caused by the oil pump. Threaded plug on top of pump plus no flat surface on pump housing........


.... a blanked off port on the Fomoco oil pump not sealed properly with thread tape, loctite, etc......

Two is a co-incidence, three is a pattern, hope this doesn't happen to anyone else.