Puma clutch bleed nipple confusion

[steveG]

I’ve got the new clutch fitted in my daughters 2007 Puma, and trying to bleed it.

Can anyone confirm what position is “open” as I don’t seem to be getting anything through regardless of where I turn it to.
It only turns 180deg, and I’ve tried at both ends of that travel and also at the mid point.

I’ve tried both pedal bleeding and vacuum bleed connected to the nipple. Plenty of free play at the master.

Steve

[steveG]

Of course 2 mins after I post the question it started to bleed.

Looking from the outboard end of the nipple towards the bell housing - OPEN is fully anticlockwise.
CLOSED is fully clockwise.

Steve

[DazzaTD5]

Of course 2 mins after I post the question it started to bleed.

Looking from the outboard end of the nipple towards the bell housing - OPEN is fully anticlockwise.
CLOSED is fully clockwise.

Steve

Correct, also in the closed position there are 2 marks that line up.
The easiest way of bleeding them is once you have connected a plastic hose down into a small plastic bleed bottle, open the valve and finish off putting the floor covering in, keep it topped up eventually it will gravity feed. Then do 2 three quarter pumps, check/top up level, 2 three quarter pumps, repeat until you have flushed clean fluid through the hydraulics.

They really are one of the easiest systems to bleed.

[Tins]

They really are one of the easiest systems to bleed.

Can I fit it to my R380?? [bigwhistle][bigsmile]

[DazzaTD5]

Can I fit it to my R380?? [bigwhistle][bigsmile]

yes, fit a mt82 gearbox

[Tins]

yes, fit a mt82 gearbox

Knew it would be a doddle.

[steveG]

Correct, also in the closed position there are 2 marks that line up.
The easiest way of bleeding them is once you have connected a plastic hose down into a small plastic bleed bottle, open the valve and finish off putting the floor covering in, keep it topped up eventually it will gravity feed. Then do 2 three quarter pumps, check/top up level, 2 three quarter pumps, repeat until you have flushed clean fluid through the hydraulics.

They really are one of the easiest systems to bleed.

Thanks Daz - I’ll give that method a go tomorrow as after trying both pedal and vacuum bleeding I still can’t get the clutch to release completely.

Steve

[POD]

I had success by reverse bleeding, injecting fluid from beneath via a 50ml syringe, sucking it out of the master cyl when full and recirculating several times via a system of IV valves that enable disconnecting and reconnecting a syringe without injecting air. I have always had success gravity bleeding clutches before but this thing was a complete pig until I tried the above.

[steveG]

Did you have the same symptoms - pedal felt OK but just not completely releasing the clutch?
I had the horrible thought last night that I may have had a brain fart and put the friction plate on the wrong way around causing it to bind on the flywheel.
Not sure if it’s even possible on these things, pretty confident I didn’t, but no way to check without removing the gearbox again…

Steve

[scarry]

Can I fit it to my R380?? [bigwhistle][bigsmile]

At least with the R380,the slave cylinder is reasonably easily replaced,unlike the Puma.....

[Tins]

At least with the R380,the slave cylinder is reasonably easily replaced,unlike the Puma.....

Yeah, swings and roundabouts. R380 in a Disco can be a bitch to bleed. Still, I didn't go to the trouble of importing one from Ashcroft's just to swap it out.

[steveG]

Almost there. After gravity bleeding for an hour or so it’s now to the point where i can select gears, but still dragging very slightly as it wants to try and creep forward as you move the lever into 1st.

Steve

[DazzaTD5]

also check your pedal height if you or someone messed with it.
roughly the clutch pedal is at the same height from the floor as the brake pedal, yes there is a actual measurement i just cant remember it.

[steveG]

also check your pedal height if you or someone messed with it.
roughly the clutch pedal is at the same height from the floor as the brake pedal, yes there is a actual measurement i just cant remember it.

Thanks Daz.
Yes - I'd seen the measurement in the workshop manual, but at the end of the day I got no choice about the height (although it looked and felt pretty right).
After numerous rounds of gravity, vacuum, and pedal bleeding and even making up an old school check valve I wasn't getting any improvement over the slight dragging trying to engage gears. Pedal felt good and consistent - so I figured it was actually bled properly.
I managed to tweak a bit out of the master cylinder pushrod adjustment, to the point where there was still about 1mm free play at the top, and it would slip into gear normally when disengaged.
The engagement was pretty much as you started to lift your foot, but after a couple of short drives it settled in a bit and there was noticeably more travel before it started to take up. Still VERY close to the floor but definitely improving.
I warned my daughter about it when she came to collect it, and she made it home without stalling it (but apparently came close a couple of times!!).

Steve

[DazzaTD5]

Thanks Daz.
Yes - I'd seen the measurement in the workshop manual, but at the end of the day I got no choice about the height (although it looked and felt pretty right).
After numerous rounds of gravity, vacuum, and pedal bleeding and even making up an old school check valve I wasn't getting any improvement over the slight dragging trying to engage gears. Pedal felt good and consistent - so I figured it was actually bled properly.
I managed to tweak a bit out of the master cylinder pushrod adjustment, to the point where there was still about 1mm free play at the top, and it would slip into gear normally when disengaged.
The engagement was pretty much as you started to lift your foot, but after a couple of short drives it settled in a bit and there was noticeably more travel before it started to take up. Still VERY close to the floor but definitely improving.
I warned my daughter about it when she came to collect it, and she made it home without stalling it (but apparently came close a couple of times!!).

Steve

the engagement is always just off the floor, its different to older Defender models, it will always feel softer or wishy washy compared to earlier Defenders.

But the only time I've heard of the clutch dragging like what you are saying is when there has been a problem with the clutch itself.
One was here on AULRO and the other was a workshop, on both times they removed and replaced the clutch and all was good.

also check to make sure you put the gearstick assembly back correctly as one complete assembly which includes the plastic cup on the end of the ball.

Gear lever gate spring for 3rd/4th not working (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/294110-gear-lever-gate-spring-3rd-4th-not-working.html)

[POD]

Thanks Daz.
Yes - I'd seen the measurement in the workshop manual, but at the end of the day I got no choice about the height (although it looked and felt pretty right).
After numerous rounds of gravity, vacuum, and pedal bleeding and even making up an old school check valve I wasn't getting any improvement over the slight dragging trying to engage gears. Pedal felt good and consistent - so I figured it was actually bled properly.
I managed to tweak a bit out of the master cylinder pushrod adjustment, to the point where there was still about 1mm free play at the top, and it would slip into gear normally when disengaged.
The engagement was pretty much as you started to lift your foot, but after a couple of short drives it settled in a bit and there was noticeably more travel before it started to take up. Still VERY close to the floor but definitely improving.
I warned my daughter about it when she came to collect it, and she made it home without stalling it (but apparently came close a couple of times!!).

Steve

My new clutch was like that after bleeding, it improved over a few days and now is just right. I theorized that air has worked it's way out of the slave cylinder with use of the clutch, as it is all downhill for the fluid. The slave cylinder is so far beyond the bleed nipple that it will not initially get all the air out.