Aluminium Radiators Suck!

[Baytown]

Well, it’s happened yet again, my flash aluminium radiator fitted to my 2012 110 has a leak, top right corner of the core. The radiator was manufactured by ‘Aussie Desert Coolers in Melbourne and was fitted as part of my 6.2 LS3 built. Actually it started leaking almost two years ago so I’m lucky if I got a year out of it, and I’ve just been topping it up with coolant as needed.

I didn’t let the manufacturer or installer know as being in Southern Tassie makes sorting these issues out with Melbourne based business difficult. This is in no way a comment against my installer as their service was beyond reproach.

I called a Hobart based radiator repair shop and they weren’t interested. There’s no way I’ll be fitting another Aussie Desert Cooler product, and the last three quality produced alloy radiators from PCR and AlliSport have not lasted two years without failing.

As such, with recognition that I’m running a 6.2 litre engine, I wonder if there are any ‘steel’ radiators manufactured for other large vehicles that would fit into the Defender engine bay and suitable for my heavy cooling needs?

Thanks for any info-advice re this recurrent issue, and there’s no way I could be the only person who has had such poor performance from ‘Alloy radiators’.

Ken
188164188165

[Graeme]

As the leak is adjacent to the mount, I wonder if the vibration insulation is too rigid. A larger diameter soft rubber bush might be required.

[Baytown]

Hi Graham;
‘Yes, I believe this may be the issue as each of my previous alloy radiators failed probably due to too rigid a mount (this advice via my mechanic who removed the failed radiators.
As far as I can tell (only due to comment by the Hobart based radiator place) was that they can’t be repaired. I have no idea as easy to find and eager radiator places are rare from my Port Arthur location, hence my enquiring about suitable HD steel framed radiators that can support the 6.2 LS3.👍


As the leak is adjacent to the mount, I wonder if the vibration insulation is too rigid. A larger diameter soft rubber bush might be required.

[Blknight.aus]

Hi Graham;
‘Yes, I believe this may be the issue as each of my previous alloy radiators failed probably due to too rigid a mount (this advice via my mechanic who removed the failed radiators.
As far as I can tell (only due to comment by the Hobart based radiator place) was that they can’t be repaired. I have no idea as easy to find and eager radiator places are rare from my Port Arthur location, hence my enquiring about suitable HD steel framed radiators that can support the 6.2 LS3.👍

you may need to get a double isolated radiator setup if you're going to stay with aluminimum. The aluminium radiator is mounted into a frame on soft blocks the frame is then mounted with more rigid blocks and there are are support struts for the hoses and fans/shrouds.

The killer is vibration or torquing of the core tubes. IME the cores are not made at most radiator places but ordered to size and then have the tanks put on. The tubing is generally too light to weld and even cleaning them up often damages them beyond repair.

All that said...

I have in the past jagged a fix using the ally "welding" rods

Flux cored aluminum welding rod make repair radiator easily - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kzcW3Vd9oWM)

theres a quick demo (not by me) on a radiator

Tips For Welding Aluminum - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tDsENrxo_4E)

BOL.

[Oberon 110]

Years ago a bloke who builds/tinkers lots of aussie muscle and weird us imports (50's - 70's) told me alloy radiators are garbage - only any good in sport applications where they're swapped out every hundred hours or so at most. I though that alloy was less thermally conductive than steel so not sure what the advantage is other than cost and weight. I suppose that's not much help, other than to say that maybe a steel rad is the go. Hope you find a solution that lasts

[Blknight.aus]

Years ago a bloke who builds/tinkers lots of aussie muscle and weird us imports (50's - 70's) told me alloy radiators are garbage - only any good in sport applications where they're swapped out every hundred hours or so at most. I though that alloy was less thermally conductive than steel so not sure what the advantage is other than cost and weight. I suppose that's not much help, other than to say that maybe a steel rad is the go. Hope you find a solution that lasts

aluminium conducts heat about as well as copper but is lighter, it conducts heat better than steel but doesnt retain it as well and deforms more than either copper or steel..

its also very prone to fatigue failures.

[Tombie]

Well, it’s happened yet again, my flash aluminium radiator fitted to my 2012 110 has a leak, top right corner of the core. The radiator was manufactured by ‘Aussie Desert Coolers in Melbourne and was fitted as part of my 6.2 LS3 built. Actually it started leaking almost two years ago so I’m lucky if I got a year out of it, and I’ve just been topping it up with coolant as needed.

I didn’t let the manufacturer or installer know as being in Southern Tassie makes sorting these issues out with Melbourne based business difficult. This is in no way a comment against my installer as their service was beyond reproach.

I called a Hobart based radiator repair shop and they weren’t interested. There’s no way I’ll be fitting another Aussie Desert Cooler product, and the last three quality produced alloy radiators from PCR and AlliSport have not lasted two years without failing.

As such, with recognition that I’m running a 6.2 litre engine, I wonder if there are any ‘steel’ radiators manufactured for other large vehicles that would fit into the Defender engine bay and suitable for my heavy cooling needs?

Thanks for any info-advice re this recurrent issue, and there’s no way I could be the only person who has had such poor performance from ‘Alloy radiators’.

Ken
188164188165

Mount needs alterations. That’s FAR too rigid.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

What Mike says.. make box ends so the rad just sits in there
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic1.pt-content.com%2Fimages%2Fpt%2F2004%2F09%2Fradiatorsa ddlemounts-1.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=926e24e3d55590c6d4b4c3803fb3d47ed2fee20e8c7651 2d0098a9ca42cf7824&ipo=images

[Baytown]

Thanks for the great reply Dave.
I’ll mention this to my mechanic and see what they think, or if they can recommend a place in Tassie to look at the radiator, and perhaps review the fix as you’ve suggested. I’ll post back here with what solution we take on.👍



you may need to get a double isolated radiator setup if you're going to stay with aluminimum. The aluminium radiator is mounted into a frame on soft blocks the frame is then mounted with more rigid blocks and there are are support struts for the hoses and fans/shrouds.

The killer is vibration or torquing of the core tubes. IME the cores are not made at most radiator places but ordered to size and then have the tanks put on. The tubing is generally too light to weld and even cleaning them up often damages them beyond repair.

All that said...

I have in the past jagged a fix using the ally "welding" rods

Flux cored aluminum welding rod make repair radiator easily - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kzcW3Vd9oWM)

theres a quick demo (not by me) on a radiator

Tips For Welding Aluminum - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tDsENrxo_4E)

BOL.

[Baytown]

Actually I can see what you mean Mike, as the failure is beside the upper right mount. I’ll see what options are available to me re repair or replace once I can find someone who will take on the repair and mod.
‘Good on you.👍


Mount needs alterations. That’s FAR too rigid.

[Baytown]

Thanks Pedro.
I’ll have a decent radiator place look into what they can do to replicate this fix.
I’ll post back here once it’s sorted and how it was done.

Good on you!


What Mike says.. make box ends so the rad just sits in there
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic1.pt-content.com%2Fimages%2Fpt%2F2004%2F09%2Fradiatorsa ddlemounts-1.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=926e24e3d55590c6d4b4c3803fb3d47ed2fee20e8c7651 2d0098a9ca42cf7824&ipo=images

[Baytown]

Yes, I’ve been advised re the performance of Alloy radiators and all 3 have failed within a year and a half. The isolated frame recommended seems to be the way to go if I keep it if reparable.👍



Years ago a bloke who builds/tinkers lots of aussie muscle and weird us imports (50's - 70's) told me alloy radiators are garbage - only any good in sport applications where they're swapped out every hundred hours or so at most. I though that alloy was less thermally conductive than steel so not sure what the advantage is other than cost and weight. I suppose that's not much help, other than to say that maybe a steel rad is the go. Hope you find a solution that lasts

[Blknight.aus]

Thanks for the great reply Dave.
I’ll mention this to my mechanic and see what they think, or if they can recommend a place in Tassie to look at the radiator, and perhaps review the fix as you’ve suggested. I’ll post back here with what solution we take on.👍


What Mike says.. make box ends so the rad just sits in there
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic1.pt-content.com%2Fimages%2Fpt%2F2004%2F09%2Fradiatorsa ddlemounts-1.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=926e24e3d55590c6d4b4c3803fb3d47ed2fee20e8c7651 2d0098a9ca42cf7824&ipo=images

if you cant get this to work, you could always try doublemounting the mounting bracket, one rubber block to the radiator and a set to the body.

[MLD]

Ken, can you follow up your fix once you land on it. I'm doing an LS conversion and radiator choice is a 'yet to be decided'. I run flexy long travel suspension so i foresee similar problems you are encountering.

[AK83]

.....

As such, with recognition that I’m running a 6.2 litre engine, I wonder if there are any ‘steel’ radiators manufactured for other large vehicles that would fit into the Defender engine bay and suitable for my heavy cooling needs?

.....

You could try(call, email, etc) Bendigo Radiators (https://benra2.wixsite.com/bendigo-radiators/services2-c10qp).

I used him about 20+ years ago for my XF that used to heat up on highway drives, was fine at slower town speeds.
To be more precise, I don't know him, but my mechanic(Ballarat based) got me the rad for the XF, from him.

Never used him for my RRC or Discos. He makes 4 core copper rads for Landrovers(among other cars), and his website says he runs a Disco with his rad type.
From what I recall tho, they are expensive, so don't expect a $200 radiator. IIRC they are in the $700 plus range.

I know older(tdi era) Defenders used similar radiator styles to the Disco and RRCs of the same era, just the mounts differed.
Looking at the mounts, they look different, and his 'speciality' is in D1 and RRC type radiators.

[Baytown]

My vehicle is with Justin now and he’s working through my jobs. He has a feller who can weld the radiator so we’ll see how that pans out.
More to follow.👍




Ken, can you follow up your fix once you land on it. I'm doing an LS conversion and radiator choice is a 'yet to be decided'. I run flexy long travel suspension so i foresee similar problems you are encountering.

[PhilipA]

Suggestion re radiator.
1 turn the bracket 90 degrees and reweld .
2 make a right angle bracket and bolt to the radiator.
3 drill hole in bracket on radiator and place bolt or maybe weld rod vertical with say 13mm or more distance to now horizontal bracket on body.
4 place bush between so radiator suspended via bush.
This is how a RRC radiator is mounted and seems to work.
If there is a bottom plate on the radiator place two pins in it matching holes in subframe. Fit rubber bushes so radiator is suspended by rubber bushes on sides and bottom.
My D2 alloy radiator with plastic ends (stock) lasted 20 years so there must be something good in the method .
Regards PhilipA
And the RRC never had a problem though it was a brass and copper radiator. Both cars had extensive off road .

[DazzaTD5]

I'm leaning towards that perhaps all alum radiators do suck...
(not so relevant for this thread as the OP's Defender is highly modded)

last model Defender TDCi (2007 - 2016, puma) can be more prone to overheating than previous models due to a number of factors including: poor maintenance, driving style, that high geared 6th speed, overloading, the fact the engine is very wide in the engine bay etc etc.

So i have looked at higher capacity all alum radiators and have seen 2 fitted and both had coolant leaks at the same spots, at the end of the fins where the cap ends join.
Both used the original Defender bottom rubber mounts and the top rubber mounts, so its as isolated as the original rad.

At the moment I replace with a std genuine radiator which I have not seen many fail.

With regards to the OP's Defender though, if you never mention it to the business that did the conversion they wont know there is a issue.

[Tombie]

That’s the issue with ALL alloy (the plastic tanks solve a lot of issues)

With alloy tanked coolers you want a “supported” cooler pack rather than one that is hung/mounted.

[MLD]

With alloy tanked coolers you want a “supported” cooler pack rather than one that is hung/mounted.

Tombie, you describing the same as PhilipA or different? Can you elaborate by description or do a rudimentary drawing pls and thx.

[Tombie]

Tombie, you describing the same as PhilipA or different? Can you elaborate by description or do a rudimentary drawing pls and thx.

Very similar to Phillip.

A channel style “L” shaped frame into which the entire cooling pack sits and is isolated by support on its base and from lateral movement by isolators in the sides of the “L” that don’t provide stresses to the core/tank

[benji]

What about a v8 radiator out of a county?