Ashcroft Stage 2 4HP22, any probs?

[Werdenfelser]

Hello everybody!

Have to change my Autobox asap. Will order a refurbished from Ashcroft.
Now, Stage 1 for sure. But what is with Stage 2?
The only concern I can see it is 15mm longer.

When I check my gearbox mounts, there should be enough space to cope with this.

But what is with the propshafts? Will it give me some problems there? Is the front one then to short and the rear one too long?

My D2 is on a 2“ lift actually, maybe this will it make more worse at the front?


Or the other way round, is it all the effort worth? Makes it that big difference?
My D2 sits on 32“ tires, new hybrid turbo from Jose is on the bench and it is most time full laden with camping stuff…

I am happy for all reviews and reports!

[Tins]

Don't have the answers. But I do have a suggestion: email Dave Ashcroft. He, or someone, will answer. The answer will most likely be brief, but you will get one. Well, that's been my experience.

dave@ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk

[discorevy]

Hello everybody!

Have to change my Autobox asap. Will order a refurbished from Ashcroft.
Now, Stage 1 for sure. But what is with Stage 2?
The only concern I can see it is 15mm longer.

When I check my gearbox mounts, there should be enough space to cope with this.

But what is with the propshafts? Will it give me some problems there? Is the front one then to short and the rear one too long?

My D2 is on a 2“ lift actually, maybe this will it make more worse at the front?


Or the other way round, is it all the effort worth? Makes it that big difference?
My D2 sits on 32“ tires, new hybrid turbo from Jose is on the bench and it is most time full laden with camping stuff…

I am happy for all reviews and reports!


Hi

The ( much ) larger surface area of the "A" clutches are a huge benefit if you are intending to go above around 450 Nm , up to around that figure I usually just fit upgraded forward clutch packs.

Another benefit of fitting the full ZF24 is that you are future proofing the car in case you do want to run over 450Nm, reliably.

Don't forget the V8 converter and kit

You can use a rear shaft from the 4.6 V8 version ( TVB000330 ), or simply get yours shortened.

As for the front, just a 15mm spacer will be fine for a 50mm lift, such as a DA6339, though 20mm might be better.

I just finished building one yesterday, for a keeper (D2a)

[Slunnie]

It really wouldn't surprise me if the propshafts just take up the 15mm, the slip joints shouldn't be that marginal.


What would surprise me is if you get the extra 15mm out of the gearbox mounts.

That said, mine has had the 3/4th clutches upgraded to 4HP24 units and that doesnt make it a longer gearbox. That setup has been totally reliable with a ECU/IC/Boost and ATF cooler which is key, but I'm also not pushing the same power as what you're looking at.

I could be wrong, but I thought if you pushed big torque through an auto it just went into limp mode???

[Tins]

It really wouldn't surprise me if the propshafts just take up the 15mm, the slip joints shouldn't be that marginal.





Interesting point. I think I'd be more concerned by the compression on the rear one than extension of the front. And I wonder if it might relieve some of the stress on the double cardan joint caused by the lift. But I could also be talking through my 18th letter of the alphabet.

[Max Headroom 2.3m]

....18th letter of the alphabet.
[bigrolf][bigrolf] Nice circumvent.

[Tins]

[bigrolf][bigrolf] Nice circumvent.

It's called learning from experience.

[Kaaaiju]

Slap a r380 and run 600nm plus without the common issues with the auto

[discorevy]

It really wouldn't surprise me if the propshafts just take up the 15mm, the slip joints shouldn't be that marginal.

If you're pushing big torque you want the front shaft to be as "engaged" as it can.

Unless you want to only ever drive on flat roads with no bumps and you're happy to jack the rear diff away from the transfer case just to fit the rear TD5 disco shaft, then I'd suggest using the shaft that Land Rover themselves used or shortening it.


What would surprise me is if you get the extra 15mm out of the gearbox mounts.

If you were to take a look under your D2, you'd see that the chassis side is slotted.... surprise!!


That said, mine has had the 3/4th clutches upgraded to 4HP24 units and that doesnt make it a longer gearbox.

No, what you probably have had someone fit is the Intermediate ONE WAY clutch from the 24, there are no frictions involved.

I could be wrong, but I thought if you pushed big torque through an auto it just went into limp mode???

Nearly Every manufacturer that wants to push big torque will opt for an auto box.

In the case of the electronic ZF 22 4 speeds, a good tuner can mitigate this to an extent.

At least you're consistent

[Slunnie]

It really wouldn't surprise me if the propshafts just take up the 15mm, the slip joints shouldn't be that marginal.

If you're pushing big torque you want the front shaft to be as "engaged" as it can.

Unless you want to only ever drive on flat roads with no bumps and you're happy to jack the rear diff away from the transfer case just to fit the rear TD5 disco shaft, then I'd suggest using the shaft that Land Rover themselves used or shortening it.

The slip joint stays on the splines and fully engaged, I'm not talking about having it all hanging out - its 15mm. The suspension pivots around points very close to the transfer outputs, so there isn't much change in length from the suspension cycling. I also would/did step the shaft up to at least 1310 rather than factory.



What would surprise me is if you get the extra 15mm out of the gearbox mounts.

If you were to take a look under your D2, you'd see that the chassis side is slotted.... surprise!!

I did, and the slotting wont give enough, at least on mine.



That said, mine has had the 3/4th clutches upgraded to 4HP24 units and that doesnt make it a longer gearbox.

No, what you probably have had someone fit is the Intermediate ONE WAY clutch from the 24, there are no frictions involved.

Thats not what I said or meant at all.


I could be wrong, but I thought if you pushed big torque through an auto it just went into limp mode???

Nearly Every manufacturer that wants to push big torque will opt for an auto box.

In the case of the electronic ZF 22 4 speeds, a good tuner can mitigate this to an extent.

When I was doing all of this the ZF 22 limited the torque, I don't recall the value, maybe 400Nm, it would send the autos into limp mode and need a restart to clear it. The tuners would run the ECU's up to this and on a cold day when you put your foot down it would then go into limp. Oh well, thats great if they've overcome that limitation.


At least you're consistent

I'm really not sure what you're being like that for but great if that makes you feel better for yourself.


...

[Slunnie]

Slap a r380 and run 600nm plus without the common issues with the auto

It'll be interesting to see if the 8HP conversions take off for those wanting to run big power and an auto.

[Tins]

It'll be interesting to see if the 8HP conversions take off for those wanting to run big power and an auto.

I just like the idea of the modern 8 speed behind a TD5.

[Slunnie]

I just like the idea of the modern 8 speed behind a TD5.

Totally, it would transform it. The reports are pretty positive.

[shack]

Slap a r380 and run 600nm plus without the common issues with the autoAre Ashcrofts doing upgraded stuff for the R380 other than uprated bearings and the machined rear housing ?

I can't see anything on their website?

[Kaaaiju]

Are Ashcrofts doing upgraded stuff for the R380 other than uprated bearings and the machined rear housing ?

I can't see anything on their website?

no but those boxes still handle good lower, both my mates r380
are stock and pushing around 550-600nm and don’t baby it around just as long you don’t feed power in 5th

Winchcester gears make built R380 as well which alive run 700nm through it

[Tins]

no but those boxes still handle good lower, both my mates r380
are stock and pushing around 550-600nm and don’t baby it around just as long you don’t feed power in 5th

Winchcester gears make built R380 as well which alive run 700nm through it

Do your mates run coolers? Those boxes don't carry much oil.

[Kaaaiju]

Do your mates run coolers? Those boxes don't carry much oil.

yes we run Ashcroft r380 oil cooler

[Werdenfelser]

Hi

The ( much ) larger surface area of the "A" clutches are a huge benefit if you are intending to go above around 450 Nm , up to around that figure I usually just fit upgraded forward clutch packs.

Another benefit of fitting the full ZF24 is that you are future proofing the car in case you do want to run over 450Nm, reliably.

Don't forget the V8 converter and kit

You can use a rear shaft from the 4.6 V8 version ( TVB000330 ), or simply get yours shortened.

As for the front, just a 15mm spacer will be fine for a 50mm lift, such as a DA6339, though 20mm might be better.

I just finished building one yesterday, for a keeper (D2a)



Thank you for this! I think now, buy once, cry once. But i am futureproof then. :-)
The hint with the V8- rear shaft is really good, will have a look at this.

[Werdenfelser]

It really wouldn't surprise me if the propshafts just take up the 15mm, the slip joints shouldn't be that marginal.


What would surprise me is if you get the extra 15mm out of the gearbox mounts.

That said, mine has had the 3/4th clutches upgraded to 4HP24 units and that doesnt make it a longer gearbox. That setup has been totally reliable with a ECU/IC/Boost and ATF cooler which is key, but I'm also not pushing the same power as what you're looking at.

I could be wrong, but I thought if you pushed big torque through an auto it just went into limp mode???


The Allisport Autocooler is already installed.

[Tins]

Hi

The ( much ) larger surface area of the "A" clutches are a huge benefit if you are intending to go above around 450 Nm , up to around that figure I usually just fit upgraded forward clutch packs.



Gotta be a plus for reliability even for stock. I have had 3 ( yes three ) cases of failure to proceed due to A clutch failure. Poor man pays thrice. Although I did only actually pay for two of them, it was three tow trucks and three cases of no car.

[00quattro00]

It'll be interesting to see if the 8HP conversions take off for those wanting to run big power and an auto.

Costs too much for an old discovery imo, 2x adapter kits, TCM plus the cost of a trans is way more than what the car is worth

[Tins]

Costs too much for an old discovery imo, 2x adapter kits, TCM plus the cost of a trans is way more than what the car is worth
Like you said, your opinion.

[Werdenfelser]

Hi there!

To bring this to a good end:

Installed the new Autobox this weekend. Started at Friday, 1100, first run at Saturday, 1800.
And it runs like a dream now! Like a car. [bigrolf]
Press the pedal and it becomes faster and not louder!

For installation: there have been no problems connected with the Stage 2 mod. The slots for the Gearboxmounts
are easily long enough and as mine is an 2004, the Oilpipes fitted as well normal.


At the end of the day it was bolts and nuts and lots of swearing. :-)

It runs good now and i am happy with it!

[Kaaaiju]

Hopefully yours will last more than others and no warranty from the uk :(

[Tins]

no warranty from the uk :(

That, of course, is the risk you take. Yonks ago we pulled the trigger on a suffix L R380 from Ashcrofts. Cheaper, even with shipping and all the gouging that happened when it landed, than anything I could get here at the time, including the core charge, and it has been excellent. Well, it was when the car was a daily. I'd do it again if need arose and budget allowed. I wish I'd considered it when my auto blew the first time. Might have saved me about a thousand headaches.. , including a day at VCAT, which was a waste of everyone's time and left a sour taste in a few people's mouths.

[Tins]

Costs too much for an old discovery imo, 2x adapter kits, TCM plus the cost of a trans is way more than what the car is worth

If we all did things based on what the car is worth, then there'd be no need for AULRO. I think you miss the main point, which is that we love the cars and don't want some new piece of plastic to replace them. An 8HP converted D2 could hold its head up in most company.

[00quattro00]

If we all did things based on what the car is worth, then there'd be no need for AULRO. I think you miss the main point, which is that we love the cars and don't want some new piece of plastic to replace them. An 8HP converted D2 could hold its head up in most company.

Did you read the post I quoted? I can guarantee you they wont take off because of cost and you still have a td5. when most people are going to fit an 8hp with a m57 infront of it. I like my td5 disco but its only a $2k car.