TDV6 oil pumps

[Andyducati]

Just about to start a major service on my 2005 D3. 555400km
One of the major items being changed is the engine oil pump. Watching Christian and Vera on LRTime on youtube , he does a very good comparison of oil pumps.
Im wondering if the pump from the SZ territories is the same as the LR one. Are they identical regarding rotor capacity?
LRTime compares the genuine LR ones and aftermarket ones. Genuine pump turns out to be the best obviously. He also says the Peugeot / Citroen pump is the same as the LR pump, just with a different part number and half the price too.
So is the pump from ford the same as the LR item?

thanks in advance
Andy

[101RRS]

The LR pump is the Ford Pump and Ford charge about the 1/3 of the LR price.

[loanrangie]

Just about to start a major service on my 2005 D3. 555400km
One of the major items being changed is the engine oil pump. Watching Christian and Vera on LRTime on youtube , he does a very good comparison of oil pumps.
Im wondering if the pump from the SZ territories is the same as the LR one. Are they identical regarding rotor capacity?
LRTime compares the genuine LR ones and aftermarket ones. Genuine pump turns out to be the best obviously. He also says the Peugeot / Citroen pump is the same as the LR pump, just with a different part number and half the price too.
So is the pump from ford the same as the LR item?

thanks in advance
Andy

Yes it is the same, i got my pump from a Ford dealer when i did mine, i see you are close to me so if you need a hand send me a pm.
I also have the locking pin set for doing the belts which you will need, ive a done couple now.

[Andyducati]

Yes it is the same, i got my pump from a Ford dealer when i did mine, i see you are close to me so if you need a hand send me a pm.
I also have the locking pin set for doing the belts which you will need, ive a done couple now.
That would be a great help. many thanks for the offer, although you may back out quickly when I list the extent of the jobs I'm doing.
Im doing the head gaskets on a half million KM discovery, plus full head rebuild, oil pump, timing belts, full fluid change. Plus whilst I'm in there I'm completely removing the full EGR system and gutting the CAT.
But if you still want to stick around then :beer:

Apart from that it runs like a dream.

[PerthDisco]

That would be a great help. many thanks for the offer, although you may back out quickly when I list the extent of the jobs I'm doing.
Im doing the head gaskets on a half million KM discovery, plus full head rebuild, oil pump, timing belts, full fluid change. Plus whilst I'm in there I'm completely removing the full EGR system and gutting the CAT.
But if you still want to stick around then :beer:

Apart from that it runs like a dream.

That’s a great achievement if it’s the original donk. Pretty sure #1 km leader. Have you owned it a long time?

[Andyducati]

That’s a great achievement if it’s the original donk. Pretty sure #1 km leader. Have you owned it a long time?

I believe its original. 555400km with a mostly full service history.
Only had it 3 weeks or so. Just got through a roadworthy with very few fixes to get it through.

[Graeme]

Have you considered replacing the bearings? It would be a shame for the bottom end to let go after such a top-end overhaul.

[PerthDisco]

Have you considered replacing the bearings? It would be a shame for the bottom end to let go after such a top-end overhaul.

Sure would be interesting to see the colour of them.

It might be Oldsalts (?) car that had high kms and contributed regularly here.

[Andyducati]

I don't think I will go that far on this engine at this time. I am going to get another engine at some point and rebuild that ready for if/when this one decides to leave the farm!!
Doing the head gaskets on this one because they need doing now.

[loanrangie]

That would be a great help. many thanks for the offer, although you may back out quickly when I list the extent of the jobs I'm doing.
Im doing the head gaskets on a half million KM discovery, plus full head rebuild, oil pump, timing belts, full fluid change. Plus whilst I'm in there I'm completely removing the full EGR system and gutting the CAT.
But if you still want to stick around then :beer:

Apart from that it runs like a dream.

Yep i'm a glutton for punishment, i've used Eltham cylinder heads recently and they did a good job on my wifes X-trail head.

[PerthDisco]

My suggestion is Loanrangie observe and prepare a documentary of the procedure will be great to understand what the condition of various parts is. [emoji106]

[loanrangie]

My suggestion is Loanrangie observe and prepare a documentary of the procedure will be great to understand what the condition of various parts is. [emoji106]


Chief observer and beer wrangler [thumbsupbig].

[PerthDisco]

My local men’s shed has a hoist and is 101% brilliant in every respect but every job I’m getting stuck into at peak concentration has an audience offering sage advice and a lot of sentences that start with “when I was a lad” or “in my day”.

[Andyducati]

Hi Dave (Airmech953)

Im unable to reply to your PM due to my post count being too low???

Hi Dave. i'm not lifting off the body for these jobs. I don't have the facility to do that at home. I am taking a week off work to get it done though. Any help would be gratefully received also. I am very mechanically minded as that's what I do for a living, plus with many years working on land rovers is a bonus.
what is the preheater removal tool?

cheers
Andy

[Andyducati]

Yep i'm a glutton for punishment, i've used Eltham cylinder heads recently and they did a good job on my wifes X-trail head.

Good to hear.
I think all LR owners are gluttons for some kind of punishment. Ive been for the last 25 years or so then.

Will see what the heads are like when they're off, but will give Eltham Cylinder Heads a go if needed.

[Andyducati]

Chief observer and beer wrangler [thumbsupbig].


beer will be available. [bigsmile][bigsmile]

[loanrangie]

beer will be available. [bigsmile][bigsmile]


When is D day ?

[Andyducati]

When is D day ?

Hopefully starting next Friday

[Airmech953]

Hi Dave (Airmech953)

Im unable to reply to your PM due to my post count being too low???

Hi Dave. i'm not lifting off the body for these jobs. I don't have the facility to do that at home. I am taking a week off work to get it done though. Any help would be gratefully received also. I am very mechanically minded as that's what I do for a living, plus with many years working on land rovers is a bonus.
what is the preheater removal tool?

cheers
Andy
Hi, my mistake, I have an injector removal tool. When are you doing the job? I'll be away for a couple of weeks, starting next Wednesday but I could drop the tool off this weekend if you want.

[Andyducati]

Hi, my mistake, I have an injector removal tool. When are you doing the job? I'll be away for a couple of weeks, starting next Wednesday but I could drop the tool off this weekend if you want.

Im starting next Friday with any luck. That would be great if you don’t mind loaning the tool out.
Many thanks 👍🏼👍🏼

[Airmech953]

Im starting next Friday with any luck. That would be great if you don’t mind loaning the tool out.
Many thanks 👍🏼👍🏼
Call me on mobile 0413901734 to arrange drop off for the tool. Dave

[Andyducati]

“Can of worms!” “Ticking Time bomb!” “Volcano ready to blow!”
pick the relevant metaphor to describe my engine!

So my half million km TDV6 has a unreinforced oil pump. It has the part number ending in AC. How has this not self destructed is beyond me.

The water pumps bearings are shot and there are only half of the impeller blades still intact and it’s not been over heating either.

The intakes are so full of crud I am surprised it ran at all and the timing belt is starting to de-laminate.

I may need more than the week to sort all this out.

More updates tomorrow as I get further into it.

Andy.
191398
191399191400

[PerthDisco]

If the timing belt has never been changed the original pump probably won’t break. That’s impressive

[Eric SDV6SE]

Very impressive indeed. Timing belt went over 3x the LR stated service limit (160000km from memory).

Best of luck.

[discomatt69]

In shows how good they can be, I think over maintaining by people who don’t know exactly what they are doing whether that be the owners or over confident mechanics cause half the problems we see

[PerthDisco]

In shows how good they can be, I think over maintaining by people who don’t know exactly what they are doing whether that be the owners or over confident mechanics cause half the problems we see

Agree I’m pretty sure timing belts last 3x the interval. Son has a Subaru with EJ engine and belt looks immaculate 20k kms over the interval for charge. I’m thinking to see how far it goes.

[Graeme]

Years ago a brother bought an Alfa 90 that was overdue for its belt change. The belt snapped on the drive home, fortunately only bending every valve.

[discomatt69]

Recently my sister in law had her VW Allspace die a sudden death, 5 years old, they declined the timing belt change at service, 4 months later it had a major engine failure, sold the car for next to nothing so clearly some are better than others

[Andyducati]

Some progress today.
Upon further inspection it definitely has had a belt change as when the engine is timed up I can see a paint mark on the crank pulley which lines up with a faint paint mark on the oil pump. The belt is a Dayco brand too.

I’ve managed to get the RH cylinder head off with no major headache apart from the odd sneaky bolt here and there. Injectors came out nice and easy.
I am very surprised to find this head in really great condition. Very clean on the inside, no wear or damage to the cams, lifters etc. All the lash adjusters were good too.
doesn’t look like this is the failed side.

Now for the bad:-
I’ve got a seized injector. And for the life of me I cannot remove it. No6 is stuck. It’s as stuck as a stuck thing!!
I’ve tried the removal tool, no joy. Tried prising it up whilst trying to turn it, no joy. So this injector is officially toast. So Ive removed the solenoid from the top of the stuck injector and made up an adapter to screw into the injector body, I’ve got a 5kg slide hammer attached to this and with as much force as I can put into the hammer it is not budging. Bear in mind it has been soaking in wd40 for the past 2 days.
What do I do?
my thoughts are, chain drill the cam cover around the injector so I can at least get the cover off and remove the head, then warm the head and continue with the slide hammer, or just go and get a head from a wreck.

Thoughts!

Answers on a postcard to the usual address please.

Andy

[BradC]

Given the injector is toast and I've never seen inside one, my thoughts :

How much space is there in the injector body? My first thought was to fill it with liquid propane. That'll chill the injector down to ~-45C which should shrink it nicely. Alternatively warm the inside of the body with an oxy to expand it, hoping that as it shrinks back down it breaks loose.

Don't try warming it immediately after cooling it with propane :)

[Graeme]

Sacrificing the manifold isn't much of a sacrifice as they should be replaced anyway at their age.

[Eric SDV6SE]

I’ve got a seized injector. And for the life of me I cannot remove it. No6 is stuck. It’s as stuck as a stuck thing!!
I’ve tried the removal tool, no joy. Tried prising it up whilst trying to turn it, no joy. So this injector is officially toast. So Ive removed the solenoid from the top of the stuck injector and made up an adapter to screw into the injector body, I’ve got a 5kg slide hammer attached to this and with as much force as I can put into the hammer it is not budging. Bear in mind it has been soaking in wd40 for the past 2 days.
What do I do?
my thoughts are, chain drill the cam cover around the injector so I can at least get the cover off and remove the head, then warm the head and continue with the slide hammer, or just go and get a head from a wreck.

Thoughts!

Answers on a postcard to the usual address please.
Andy
Don't have a postcard handy, so here will have to do. Do you have one of those duck foot bearing pullers, or any type of puller? If you can thread into the injector where the solenoid was, and bear load via the puller onto the head, you should be able to pull the injector out that way. The hardened steel threads of your puller are stronger than a slide hammer and apply constant load.

Just an idea.

[NomadicD3]

Hi Andy, I see you've had them soaking in WD40 but Wurth have a product called "injector EX", it's what I used on mine when they were pulled and #6 was seized badly and it got the job done with the aid of a similar set up as you have with the heavy slide hammer.

[loanrangie]

I called in to see Andy on Sunday and the disco is alive, not without some headaches along the way which required body off procedure to fix.

[Andyducati]

So, a few months have passed since i updated this post.

The car is back up and running and has been relatively trouble free. Had a minor fuel leak from an injector leakoff o-ring and a major fuel leak from the pipe coming off the fuel cooler (by the oil filter housing) and left a fuel spill trail about 5km from home to home and up my driveway.

Anyway back to my repairs. RH head was a doddle, LH was anything but. I ended up biting the bullet and lifting the body off. Borrowed a trailer and took the car into work to use the lift. Took chassis home and finished off the work. So much easier.

I smashed the intake/cam cover off and removed the LH head. Injector still stuck in head and glow plugs all siezed too. I went and got a 2nd hand head from a 190000k Territory (should have got them both as 1 of the exhaust manifold studs sheered off plus breaking an ezout in the stud and the glowplugs were also siezed too).
Fitted both heads, new oil pump and belts etc. Assembled everything else. No dramas apart from the glow plugs in the original RH head and the manifold stud. Back to work to fit the body. Basck home for everything else.

First attempt to start took a while as the fuel system needed to bleed itself. it built oil pressure nicely on the starter alone before it fired into life.
Had a bit of an oh-S**T monent on the first drive with the oil pressure light coming on. It ended up being water in the connection shorting out the signal.
And has been fine ever since apart from the fuel leaks.
There is a bit more noise from the RH head compared to the LH, so i went ad got the RH head from the same Territory to replace over the next month or so.
Ill report on this repair soon.

Till next time