The end of my Discovery.

[LuckyLes]

Well, It has now gone.192005192006192007

All I have left is a few bits and pieces that I removed from the car before departure, that I will offer on here in the near future.
Merry Christmas to All.[bawl]

[discomatt69]

2 piece crank?
crap way to end ownership

[LuckyLes]

Hi,
I'm not absolutely sure, either broken crank or dropped valve, whichever it is it sounds like a shovel full of gravel in a cement mixer. Either way it is not economical to repair and I no longer have the energy to pull it apart myself.

[incisor]

Hi,
I'm not absolutely sure, either broken crank or dropped valve, whichever it is it sounds like a shovel full of gravel in a cement mixer. Either way it is not economical to repair and I no longer have the energy to pull it apart myself.

sad way for it to end....

which way you thinking of heading, vehicle wise ?

[LuckyLes]

We are going to sell the caravan and buy either a Rav4 or a Camry hybrid.
Cheers
Les

[veebs]

We are going to sell the caravan and buy either a Rav4 or a Camry hybrid.
Cheers
Les

Oh man this thread keeps getting more and more depressing :(

[Eric SDV6SE]

Oh man this thread keeps getting more and more depressing :(

To be less depressed then, we sold the D4, bought a P400 L663 and a new van, getting both set up for touring. Carpe Diem!

[BradC]

Carpe Diem!

Better than seize the crank I suppose.

[Graeme]

My hunch for the D4 crankshaft issues is the less than adequate upper main bearing material combined with a crankshaft that can flex when the bearings allow, but I've yet to analyse my old D4's demise.

[loanrangie]

Thats a shame, good candidate for a 2.7 long block swap.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Better than seize the crank I suppose.

Thats gold mate

[BradC]

Thats gold mate

Unless you own a 3.0 that sounds like a cement mixer, in which case it's just reality.

My wife really, really, really wants me to "upgrade" the D3 for a later D4. I'm the 4th owner of the 3, and it was already on its second motor when we bought it (less than 160,000 km). I know there are plenty of 4's out there that are still running, but I just can't do it. Well, that and there are **** all 4's in Aus with a gearbox. There are 3's have 6 speeds that have **** the bed, or the 4's have engines that no longer rotate. At least the combination of the 2.7 and no transmission seem to be ok (except it died once already). I just love having that third pedal that means I can slide up next to the D4 at the lights and "over rotate" all 4 tyres leaving them in the diesel smoke. I don't do it often because I don't want to have to replace the clutch and the dual mass flywheel. I did it (unaware) next to a motorcycle cop one day on Morley Drive (zero to 70 before the sign was reached). He pulled me over and asked why I was "so much in a hurry". I said "My mother in law has been babying my car for weeks and I wanted to blow the smoke out". No problem. Winner!

I mean what sort of motorcycle cop would think I was trying to outrun him in a 2.6T tractor?

[Melbourne Park]

We are going to sell the caravan and buy either a Rav4 or a Camry hybrid.
Cheers
Les

Very Sorry for you Les.

It sounds like a worse case scenario. With these vehicles it's sure annoying that a big repair will cost more than its worth. Which also means you could buy another one ... but then it might happen again to you.

Selling caravans at the moment is not a good time.

All you need is something that will tow 3 tonne. At least you'll be able to keep the van. Lots of utes can do the job and at the end of the trip your van will be as comfortable as ever. Things like Nissan Navaras from around 2017 under 160K cost under $15,000. This one is 73k and $17,000. No Disco but it can tow 3.5 tonne, and your van is 3 tonne so it could get you there. You've done the luxo thing why not try the another way?

The most most important thing is you health and you cannot buy that. Best of luck.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Thats a shame, good candidate for a 2.7 long block swap.

Except having driven both the 2.7 TDV6 and 3.0 SDV6 at my Dealer during my original test drive the difference in performance and turbo lag is significant. It's a dilemma all D4/D5 RR Sport etc owners have. Why is it that all the problems for the JLR TDV6 engines are created by FORD (Fix Or Repair Daily)

[loanrangie]

Except having driven both the 2.7 TDV6 and 3.0 SDV6 at my Dealer during my original test drive the difference in performance and turbo lag is significant. It's a dilemma all D4/D5 RR Sport etc owners have. Why is it that all the problems for the JLR TDV6 engines are created by FORD (Fix Or Repair Daily)It would be no difference as you are only utilising lthe ong motor and keeping everything else from the 3.0L.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

It would be no difference as you are only utilising lthe ong motor and keeping everything else from the 3.0L.

Apart from the 300cc lower capacity. Remembering that Moto 2 bike racing is based on 250cc.

[BradC]

Apart from the 300cc lower capacity. Remembering that Moto 2 bike racing is based on 250cc.

Hardly. They used to be a 250cc 2 stroke screamer. The equivalent these days is a 765cc Triumph Triple (and they still lap on the whole nearly a second a lap slower than the old 2-strokes.).

[loanrangie]

Apart from the 300cc lower capacity. Remembering that Moto 2 bike racing is based on 250cc.

You wouldn't even feel the difference and those that have already been down this road have confirmed it.

[DazzaTD5]

Apart from the 300cc lower capacity.

its actually lower than that as the 2.7 is 27xx cc slightly over

its bull**** anyway, ive fitted up a 2.7 as 3.0lt in d4 model, clocked more on a dyno than plenty of 3.0 ones.

a 2.7 is also slightly higher compression.

my project 2.7 in a D3 (my mates car now) pulls dam close if not better than a 3.0 D4 without the lag, I havent had the chance to go head to head.

[LuckyLes]

I was under the impression that the ancilliary bits weren't a direct swap over from the 2.7 to the 3.0 litre..
Too late now, decision has been made and car is gone..
Les

[discomatt69]

its actually lower than that as the 2.7 is 27xx cc slightly over

its bull**** anyway, ive fitted up a 2.7 as 3.0lt in d4 model, clocked more on a dyno than plenty of 3.0 ones.

a 2.7 is also slightly higher compression.

my project 2.7 in a D3 (my mates car now) pulls dam close if not better than a 3.0 D4 without the lag, I havent had the chance to go head to head.
What was done to the 2.7?
is it an easy block swap ?
are 2.7 that much more “ structurally sound “?
are 2.7 short motors available new?

i am wanting to keep my D4 but need viable options…
a V8 RR diesel is a nice thought but no idea on if it’s viable

[veebs]

I think viability is directly proportional to the depth of your pockets...

[discomatt69]

I think viability is directly proportional to the depth of your pockets...
Pockets are fine given what replacement costs are for a decent new 4wd fitting it out
just for rough estimates 100k for replacement 4wd plus at least 40k on fit out to get what I have now as far as comfort and capability with same gear

[veebs]

Pockets are fine given what replacement costs are for a decent new 4wd fitting it out
just for rough estimates 100k for replacement 4wd plus at least 40k on fit out to get what I have now as far as comfort and capability with same gear

I reckon you should be able to find someone that will fit a V8 to a disco 4 for less than $140k

Engine Conversions - Old Jaguar (https://oldjaguar.com/product/engine-conversions/)

[Melbourne Park]

I reckon you should be able to find someone that will fit a V8 to a disco 4 for less than $140k

Engine Conversions - Old Jaguar (https://oldjaguar.com/product/engine-conversions/)

IMO someone needs to have engine mount conversions so the D4 can take Ford Ranger/Everest (& VW's Amorok) V6. One of those short motors is $US6,000, and I wonder what the cost will be for Australia ... but lots of V6s Rangers and Everests are sold each year and some get written off. I must speak to my Indy about why not some conversion engine mounts? But it's so obvious a thing to do that I guess if it was simple it would have been done by now.

[discomatt69]

IMO someone needs to have engine mount conversions so the D4 can take Ford Ranger/Everest (& VW's Amorok) V6. One of those short motors is $US6,000, and I wonder what the cost will be for Australia ... but lots of V6s Rangers and Everests are sold each year and some get written off. I must speak to my Indy about why not some conversion engine mounts? But it's so obvious a thing to do that I guess if it was simple it would have been done by now.
A hot rod builder / engineer style workshop would do that easily

[Graeme]

The mounts would have to be engineered, not just designed and fabricated.

The suspicion with my son's D4 from the electrical faults recorded at the time of failure is that the oil level sensor may have been destroyed, which would account for the normally quiet idling even though the oil pressure light was on. The sump will be removed prior to fitting the replacement engine to check such things as lost bolts but all bearing cap bolts in the replacement engine will have already had thread-locker applied.

[DazzaTD5]

I was under the impression that the ancilliary bits weren't a direct swap over from the 2.7 to the 3.0 litre..
Too late now, decision has been made and car is gone..
Les

they arent, even the inlet manifolds need to be changed. There is a whole thread on it somewhere.

[DazzaTD5]

What was done to the 2.7?
is it an easy block swap ?
are 2.7 that much more “ structurally sound “?
are 2.7 short motors available new?

i am wanting to keep my D4 but need viable options…
a V8 RR diesel is a nice thought but no idea on if it’s viable

a 2.7 in a 3.0 d4, the biggest issue is labour cost, i note no other business is throwing out a price, for something that is still a used engine.
$20k - $25K ? for a vehicle that is worth $10 - $15K

but I will be doing it again for the next project disco (d4 with a broken engine) as I still have some good 2.7lt left.
Then I will see about rebuilding the old 3.0lt

[Bohica]

We are going to sell the caravan and buy either a Rav4 or a Camry hybrid.
Cheers
Les

May I suggest a Tesla?

[Melbourne Park]

The mounts would have to be engineered, not just designed and fabricated.
...

There are still some auto engineers in Australia ... or in the UK. Having them made would be a possible business ... buy wrecked motors from Ranger/Everest & Amorok V6s and then get ready to do the swaps.

I wonder if those "new" Lion motors very different? I thinks its a bit more oil that feeds that thin bearing ... but also, perhaps modern technology is producing better quality crankshafts. My understanding is that 98% of the crankshafts were good.


...
The suspicion with my son's D4 from the electrical faults recorded at the time of failure is that the oil level sensor may have been destroyed, which would account for the normally quiet idling even though the oil pressure light was on. The sump will be removed prior to fitting the replacement engine to check such things as lost bolts but all bearing cap bolts in the replacement engine will have already had thread-locker applied.a

I have seen an LR time video of that oil level sensor. Christian made a brass replacement ... but the failure related to a simple plug in socket. So in the factory, if a loud "click" of the plastic to plastic plug is not heard, then over considerable time it could work loose. Now there is a thin metal plate that sits over the plug and traps it so it cannot work loose. So someone simply did not push in the plug properly ... and of course, it is a design issue, because if the metal cover securing plate was thought of, the plug could have have worked loose.

[Melbourne Park]

its actually lower than that as the 2.7 is 27xx cc slightly over

its bull**** anyway, ive fitted up a 2.7 as 3.0lt in d4 model, clocked more on a dyno than plenty of 3.0 ones.

a 2.7 is also slightly higher compression.

my project 2.7 in a D3 (my mates car now) pulls dam close if not better than a 3.0 D4 without the lag, I havent had the chance to go head to head.

Well ... the compression is silly. It's like saying the V8 4.5 litre Cruiser diesel has higher compression than the Cruiser V6 3.3 diesel. Which is the case. But compression is not the issue in a motor that has forced induction, where lower compression results in better performance.

You're saying Ford was stupid in not putting the 2.7 litre instead of the twin turbo into the Ranger/Everest? And for a short time the F150? Even Toyota with their 3.34 litre V6 diesel has gone to the duel small/large turbo setup, which was the most obvious reason why the 3 litre increased its performance. Variable - expensive, setup issues and maybe less reliable; twin scroll - cheaper but not as efficient; duel - cheap and efficient.

Anyway thought that the Lion 3 litre and the current Ford 3 V6 D lacking of take off performance from first and second gears was due to protecting the drivetrain. But since the straight six goes hard at take off, I must have been wrong.

[shack]

A higher compression ratio is not silly at all on a turbo diesel.

Higher cr allows for lower boost , which considering the 2.7 only has 1 turbo, is important at lower RPM, to maintain higher peak cylinder pressure. This in turn should lower the perceived turbo lag.

The 2.7 motor whilst not bullet proof, would seem to be more robust by a reasonable amount than the 3.0.

A properly tuned 2.7 can be a pretty slippery thing, ours hasn't been on a dyno but as many of you know, I tune TD5s and I believe I'm pretty competent, but I don't think I can get a TD5 to pull like our 2.7 without a fair bit of hardware upgrades.

In fairness some of the upgrades would be the Auto box.

There will be/is some drivetrain protection, but I don't think that will be the cause the the slow getaway.

I'm interested to see what Daz response is to all this, I'm happy to be corrected.

[discorevy]

Well ... the compression is silly. It's like saying the V8 4.5 litre Cruiser diesel has higher compression than the Cruiser V6 3.3 diesel. Which is the case. But compression is not the issue in a motor that has forced induction, where lower compression results in better performance.

You're saying Ford was stupid in not putting the 2.7 litre instead of the twin turbo into the Ranger/Everest? And for a short time the F150? Even Toyota with their 3.34 litre V6 diesel has gone to the duel small/large turbo setup, which was the most obvious reason why the 3 litre increased its performance. Variable - expensive, setup issues and maybe less reliable; twin scroll - cheaper but not as efficient; duel - cheap and efficient.

Anyway thought that the Lion 3 litre and the current Ford 3 V6 D lacking of take off performance from first and second gears was due to protecting the drivetrain. But since the straight six goes hard at take off, I must have been wrong.

That remark is silly, and wrong, higher compression means the gas flowing through the turbine is able to spin it up quicker = less lag.

It's getting the correct compression for the overall efficiency and suitability of purpose that matters, later hybrid / mild hybrid vehicles are able to cheat somewhat to overcome the lag of a late model lardy 4x4.

As for the "duel" turbos, well, if they were using jousting sticks, the large one would probably win, but if it was Pistols my money would be on the small one.

The last sentence is an example of both silly and wrong.

[discorevy]

A higher compression ratio is not silly at all on a turbo diesel.

Higher cr allows for lower boost , which considering the 2.7 only has 1 turbo, is important at lower RPM, to maintain higher peak cylinder pressure. This in turn should lower the perceived turbo lag.

The 2.7 motor whilst not bullet proof, would seem to be more robust by a reasonable amount than the 3.0.

A properly tuned 2.7 can be a pretty slippery thing, ours hasn't been on a dyno but as many of you know, I tune TD5s and I believe I'm pretty competent, but I don't think I can get a TD5 to pull like our 2.7 without a fair bit of hardware upgrades.

In fairness some of the upgrades would be the Auto box.

There will be/is some drivetrain protection, but I don't think that will be the cause the the slow getaway.

I'm interested to see what Daz response is to all this, I'm happy to be corrected.

James, I didn't see your post until after I had posted ( in between other things:)

but spot on. ( Edit, well, apart from the TD5 not pulling as hard as the 2.7 bit )

Cheers

[shack]

James, I didn't see your post until after I had posted ( in between other things:)

but spot on. ( Edit, well, apart from the TD5 not pulling as hard as the 2.7 bit )

CheersDoes your TD5 pull as hard as a tuned 2.7?

[RANDLOVER]

IIRC, I read somewhere that the 2.7 compression ratio was lowered slightly so that it runs more quietly, which seems to ring true to me as I can often hear other car diesel engines rattling away over the noise of mine in traffic with the windows up!

[discorevy]

Does your TD5 pull as hard as a tuned 2.7?

Well it was the Auto D2a (I've only run the manual against the 3.0 D4) and it's only "Dragged" 3x tuned 2.7's (1 was mine).

The D4 3.0 reeled the TD5 in after about 15 seconds.

Another was one that had been tuned on the dyno via Dazza on here, and we did 6 runs all up ( owner couldn't believe it the first few times ) I even let it spool up and take off before me a couple of times and the TD5 was between 8-12 car lengths ahead after 400 metres.

They do have a weight advantage..

Apologies to O.P. for off topic and loss of your engine

[loanrangie]

IIRC, I read somewhere that the 2.7 compression ratio was lowered slightly so that it runs more quietly, which seems to ring true to me as I can often hear other car diesel engines rattling away over the noise of mine in traffic with the windows up!


Yes they are very quiet, my wife rarely hears me leave in the morning and i park not that far from our bedroom window.
You definitely hear jap diesels pull up beside you.

[DiscoJeffster]

The quietness has more to do with the five stage injection sequence they adopt and are proud to say it very much reduces typical diesel clatter. It’s only when you put your foot down that you hear the familiar sound of diesel clatter as it needs to chuck in more than the injection pattern can assist noise.

[PerthDisco]

Yes they are very quiet, my wife rarely hears me leave in the morning and i park not that far from our bedroom window.
You definitely hear jap diesels pull up beside you.

Milk trucks by comparison. TDV6 noise is very satisfying and nice under power and load also.

I must admit though the 1HZ NA noise I like also. Starts after about 1/10 of a revolution and they have this pleasant gasping noise on gear changes after delivering all their 50hp

[loanrangie]

Milk trucks by comparison. TDV6 noise is very satisfying and nice under power and load also.

I must admit though the 1HZ NA noise I like also. Starts after about 1/10 of a revolution and they have this pleasant gasping noise on gear changes after delivering all their 50hp


TD5 is another good sounding diesel.

[loanrangie]

TD5 is another good sounding diesel.

And i think Les needs a name change , not so lucky after all [bigrolf].

[shack]

Well it was the Auto D2a (I've only run the manual against the 3.0 D4) and it's only "Dragged" 3x tuned 2.7's (1 was mine).

The D4 3.0 reeled the TD5 in after about 15 seconds.

Another was one that had been tuned on the dyno via Dazza on here, and we did 6 runs all up ( owner couldn't believe it the first few times ) I even let it spool up and take off before me a couple of times and the TD5 was between 8-12 car lengths ahead after 400 metres.

They do have a weight advantage..

Apologies to O.P. for off topic and loss of your engine

Yes, apologies to the O.P.

Also...I must send your warranty terms and conditions over for you to peruse...

[discorevy]

Yes, apologies to the O.P.

Also...I must send your warranty terms and conditions over for you to peruse...

Ah yes, how remiss, they'd have to be worth at least the air that they travelled on.
I'd hate to do any damage as they have only 960 000ish kilometres between them and I'd at least like to run them in.

For those wondering, I have been upgrading hardware for a number of years and using James (shack) for TD5 tuning for the last couple on a number of peoples vehicles, including my Guinea Pigs with great results (no smoke, better than stock fuel consumption etc).

I know it's not the correct thread, I'll exit now

[V8Ian]

I know it's not the correct thread, I'll exit now.

Please continue, start a new thread if you're more comfortable with that.

[BradC]

I know it's not the correct thread, I'll exit now

Bollocks. The vehicle in question was buried a page of posts ago and the thread long de-railed. Carry on (nurse).

[LuckyLes]

Don't stop, I'm quite enjoying the read.

[shack]

Fwiw a number of the tunes that Craig has been running are early development tunes that worked out better than we thought they would, they are not finished, but I believe have been rock solid for possibly up to 2 years...I don't view them as finished anyway.


So that's where he's getting the sneaky "tuned 2.7 beating" performance.

That and the hardware side of his vehicles is pretty tight.

[shack]

Don't stop, I'm quite enjoying the read.Les.

If you ever felt like a sneaky risk, a well looked after 2.7 is not a bad vehicle, the big unknown of course being the crank, and exactly what causes the breakage/issues.

Why do some cranks die at 80k km, and others are still going at 600k km, I'm mainly talking 3.0l of course.

The main issue with the 2.7 seems to be failed oil pump housings, which seems entirely curable now.

I fully understand if you are done with them though.

[Graeme]

I think that like the possible loose TD5 oil pump bolt where it became standard practice to replace the bolt if it wasn't known to have already been replaced, that preventative steps need to be taken. Firstly check that hot idle oil pressure is perfect when the oil hasn't just been changed to establish the condition of the bearings then remove the sump to replace all bearings if pressure wasn't perfect and retorque all bolts if not replacing the bearings. Whilst I don't know what the cost of doing this work would be, gambling that a failure doesn't occur can be very expensive and inconvenient.

Broken camshaft belt sprockets are another cause of a major failure, albeit far less frequently, but IMO the sprockets should be replaced with the current version when the belt is next changed. Even if the later sprockets aren't any stronger, they will at least be new.

[LuckyLes]

10 years ago, I would have had this on a hoist, even if I had to buy one to doit and had the body off and the motor out and in bits by now, and known what the actual cause was.
However, I no longer have the physical ability or the resources to venture down that track unfortunately.
Cheers and a Merry Christmas and a Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Year to all.
Les

[DiscoJeffster]

I think that like the possible loose TD5 oil pump bolt where it became standard practice to replace the bolt if it wasn't known to have already been replaced, that preventative steps need to be taken. Firstly check that hot idle oil pressure is perfect when the oil hasn't just been changed to establish the condition of the bearings then remove the sump to replace all bearings if pressure wasn't perfect and retorque all bolts if not replacing the bearings. Whilst I don't know what the cost of doing this work would be, gambling that a failure doesn't occur can be very expensive and inconvenient.

Broken camshaft belt sprockets are another cause of a major failure, albeit far less frequently, but IMO the sprockets should be replaced with the current version when the belt is next changed. Even if the later sprockets aren't any stronger, they will at least be new.

It was around $9k which included a host of new seals around the engine (vac pump, rocker covers, rear main), new oil pump, full service (timing belts), AC regas and the likes. Body off etc. 35 hours labour.
The bearings were only about $750 of it.

This was done at around 240k km. Still going at 375k km. I do wonder every day for how much longer though. I’ve given up on the exterior. The bonnet needs a complete respray but I can’t bear to spend money on it knowing it could die at any time. And yet it probably won’t.

[V8Ian]

Fwiw a number of the tunes that Craig has been running are early development tunes that worked out better than we thought they would, they are not finished, but I believe have been rock solid for possibly up to 2 years...I don't view them as finished anyway.


So that's where he's getting the sneaky "tuned 2.7 beating" performance.

That and the hardware side of his vehicles is pretty tight.
Despite our conversation t'other day, I'm still interested. [biggrin]

[Graeme]

It was around $9k which included a host of new seals around the engine (vac pump, rocker covers, rear main), new oil pump, full service (timing belts), AC regas and the likes. Body off etc. 35 hours labour.I think that you made a good decision and cheaper and more convenient than an unexpected failure.

Note that the sump can be removed without removing the engine, as is done to replace a faulty oil sensor and the upper main slippers can be wound out with the bearing caps slightly loosened and doing 1 at a time.

[shack]

It was around $9k which included a host of new seals around the engine (vac pump, rocker covers, rear main), new oil pump, full service (timing belts), AC regas and the likes. Body off etc. 35 hours labour.
The bearings were only about $750 of it.

This was done at around 240k km. Still going at 375k km. I do wonder every day for how much longer though. I’ve given up on the exterior. The bonnet needs a complete respray but I can’t bear to spend money on it knowing it could die at any time. And yet it probably won’t.I can't remember whether you commented on doing this at the time, did you take pics of the bearings when they came out?

[DiscoJeffster]

I can't remember whether you commented on doing this at the time, did you take pics of the bearings when they came out?

I didn’t do it. Indy did but they didn’t comment that they were suspect. The thrust bearings were shot though which was the reason it was done.

[veebs]

I didn’t do it. Indy did but they didn’t comment that they were suspect. The thrust bearings were shot though which was the reason it was done.

How did you discover the thrust bearings were shot? Is there a non-invasive way to measure?

[DiscoJeffster]

How did you discover the thrust bearings were shot? Is there a non-invasive way to measure?

When they had the body off, a quick pull and push on the crank pulley you could see. Putting a dual gauge on it showed it was over twice over the spec it should be.

[Graeme]

Note that the thrust bearings are side faces on the rear main bearing slippers, not distinct parts.

[DiscoJeffster]

Note that the thrust bearings are side faces on the rear main bearing slippers, not distinct parts.

Correct, so you are changing mains to change thrust.

[veebs]

Wish I had asked the Indy to check that when he was in there for the exhaust manifold and turbo...

Then again, my trusty Indy tends to be a 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' kinda guy, so may not have done anything anyway :)

[Melbourne Park]

That remark is silly, and wrong, higher compression means the gas flowing through the turbine is able to spin it up quicker = less lag.

It's getting the correct compression for the overall efficiency and suitability of purpose that matters, later hybrid / mild hybrid vehicles are able to cheat somewhat to overcome the lag of a late model lardy 4x4.

As for the "duel" turbos, well, if they were using jousting sticks, the large one would probably win, but if it was Pistols my money would be on the small one.

The last sentence is an example of both silly and wrong.

What's wrong is using critical words without explaining why.

[Melbourne Park]

I think that like the possible loose TD5 oil pump bolt ...

Broken camshaft belt sprockets are another cause of a major failure, albeit far less frequently, but IMO the sprockets should be replaced with the current version when the belt is next changed. Even if the later sprockets aren't any stronger, they will at least be new.

When should one do the timing belt and sprockets etc? I'm wondering whether to sell my D4 and buy a Toyota to do W.A. (towing 2.5 tonne). A cheaper alternative is to do some preventative maintenance. But after reading LuckyLes's story, and the fact his motor died just after changing the timing chain, I lost some confidence! He spent a whole lot of money on maintenance and then the crank blew ... it seems to me more than a coincidence. And then this post from 2020, where his crank failed 8k after timing chain replacement:

"We've had the D4 since November last year and it's been flawless till last weekend. It has just clocked up 160,000kms. The previous owner had the front and rear belts done before we bought it (at 152k kms). " https://www.aulro.com/afvb/editpost.php?p=3239930&do=editpost

I also wondering about his oil ... I rarely check the oil in the D4 ... it's not so easy without a dipstick. After a service ... I guess I should wait before leaving and do an oil level check ... then walk around the vehicle! I had a SAAB turbo back in the day, picked it up from a service, parked it at Uni (did it all undergrad after hours) and when leaving the oil light came on. I switched off and coasted ... got out of the car, and a long stream of oil was behind the car. The sump plug fell out over a speed bump in the uni just before Swanston St in Melbourne. they towed the car the next day and it was fine. While I do check the oil with all but the D4, I have never checked the tightness of the sump plug and whether its a new plug ...

[RANDLOVER]

How did you discover the thrust bearings were shot? Is there a non-invasive way to measure?
Sometimes it needs a younger mech with sharper eyes, years ago I had a VW Jetta, after it started blowing oil out the exhaust I pulled out the engine and had it rebuilt by an engineering shop, when it was reinstalled there was a slight ticking noise with the clutch depressed. My old mechanic who was great (even made a steering shaft uni for a 5 Series I inherited that BMW wanted an extortionate amount for) had a look a couple of times, but found nothing. Then I moved to the other side of town and my new mechanic spotted the crank pulley moving. This doesn't apply to most Disco's but might pertain to any with a clutch.

[Graeme]

The later camshaft sprockets could be made from a different compound, although not conclusive comparing old and new. The webs are about 0.2mm thicker but the obvious difference is the width of one of the webs in each and the extra metal around the bolt holes.
192419192420

[Arapiles]

I know that the 3.0l replacement is about $30,000 but is there a cheaper option? From Dazza's comment it seems that the 2.7L isn't much cheaper than that, if at all.

But given that the 2.7l was used in a variety of vehicles (Ford and Jaguar), so presumably there's a few available, why aren't they cheaper?

Also, why hasn't someone engineered a swap of some other non-JRA engine? Cummins have a 2.8l engine that comes complete with all peripherals ...

[350RRC]

.................

Also, why hasn't someone engineered a swap of some other non-JRA engine? Cummins have a 2.8l engine that comes complete with all peripherals ...

Coz these things are throwaways............. the 'engineering' is done by the MBA's on the board and the time (cost) of integrating all the various electronics used by different manufacturers to do a transplant ensures it isn't going to happen ( deliberate or 'accidental').

There is plenty of info out there about what happened to Boeing when it's board became driven by, let's say, ideas less concerned with engineering excellence.

They lost somewhere around 6 bill last year, brand in tatters.

[350RRC]

The later camshaft sprockets could be made from a different compound, although not conclusive comparing old and new. The webs are about 0.2mm thicker but the obvious difference is the width of one of the webs in each and the extra metal around the bolt holes.
192419192420

Blue might be a stronger colour than brown also,

[Graeme]

I had another look at those pictures tonight. Apart from the new ones having less metal around the centre and only some extra in a couple of other areas, the new ones seemed to be made of an unusual alloy, with titanium coming to mind, and I wondered how they could end-up the colour of the originals.

[sharmy]

I've always wondered about the possibility of fitting a ford ranger 3.2 engine to one. I know they are not the best engine but can made more reliable quite cheaply and easily. They also tune up well and have a similar 6 speed gearbox. There are heaps second hand and a new (pre dpf ) one is about $8000 delivered ( long engine ).

[DiscoJeffster]

The hassle these days is how intertwined the electronics are. To get the body to be happy with a foreign engine is no small feat

[sharmy]

The hassle these days is how intertwined the electronics are. To get the body to be happy with a foreign engine is no small feat
I gather that, but both being Pommy Ford motors there may be some similarity. I know nothing about such things but I thought it wouldn't hurt to throw it out there. If a suitable replacement motor could be found it would be great.

[loanrangie]

I know that the 3.0l replacement is about $30,000 but is there a cheaper option? From Dazza's comment it seems that the 2.7L isn't much cheaper than that, if at all.

But given that the 2.7l was used in a variety of vehicles (Ford and Jaguar), so presumably there's a few available, why aren't they cheaper?

Also, why hasn't someone engineered a swap of some other non-JRA engine? Cummins have a 2.8l engine that comes complete with all peripherals ...The 2.7 is cheap used, anywhere from $1500 plus.

[PerthDisco]

Interestingly still available brand new

Genuine Ford SZ Territory 2.7L Lion V6 Diesel Engine 276Dt (https://www.jeffersonfordparts.com.au/new-genuine-ford-sz-territory-2.7l-lion-v6-diesel'srsltid=AfmBOorzmu8QLyN0qUxUYl0hGBGXd-QAlm8PkyRVOE55N108a2O_fvcY)

[BradC]

Interestingly still available brand new

Genuine Ford SZ Territory 2.7L Lion V6 Diesel Engine 276Dt (https://www.jeffersonfordparts.com.au/new-genuine-ford-sz-territory-2.7l-lion-v6-diesel'srsltid=AfmBOorzmu8QLyN0qUxUYl0hGBGXd-QAlm8PkyRVOE55N108a2O_fvcY)

I gave a garage full of "just in case" parts. I'm not sure I'd slip that one past the wife.

[shack]

I gave a garage full of "just in case" parts. I'm not sure I'd slip that one past the wife.I'd suggest giving it a go and then reporting back here as a bit of a guide for others.

Things of interest would be how long you had to sleep on the lawn and what poison you found in your food.


Edit:

It would also be good if you could let us know what happened if it DOESN'T go well.

[BradC]

I'd suggest giving it a go and then reporting back here as a bit of a guide for others.

If I did have that in the garage I might feel a bit more confident spending a couple of grand having the roof resprayed.

[PerthDisco]

[emoji638][emoji640][emoji637][emoji639][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]]]If I did have that in the garage I might feel a bit more confident spending a couple of grand having the roof resprayed.

I think I’ll write to them and suggest that marketing a product that’s worth more than the car itself going into could be tricky.

Suggest they run a mini lottery at one hundred and fifty per ticket and only a hundred tickets

[V8Ian]

London to a brick, if you lobbed up ay spare parts, it wouldn't be on the shelf.

[DiscoJeffster]

I think I’ll write to them and suggest that marketing a product that’s worth more than the car itself going into could be tricky.

Suggest they run a mini lottery at one hundred and fifty per ticket and only a hundred tickets

I like that idea!

[Arapiles]

Interestingly still available brand new

Genuine Ford SZ Territory 2.7L Lion V6 Diesel Engine 276Dt (https://www.jeffersonfordparts.com.au/new-genuine-ford-sz-territory-2.7l-lion-v6-diesel'srsltid=AfmBOorzmu8QLyN0qUxUYl0hGBGXd-QAlm8PkyRVOE55N108a2O_fvcY)

So, if a Ford 2.7l will go in a D4 why so (apparently) expensive to do?

Particularly given that the early D4s did have the 2.7l.

[PerthDisco]

So, if a Ford 2.7l will go in a D4 why so (apparently) expensive to do?

Particularly given that the early D4s did have the 2.7l.

A 2.7 will go in if a 2.7 came out.

[BradC]

A 2.7 will go in if a 2.7 came out.

There is evidence that a 2.7 will go in if a 3.0 came out with a bit of fettling.

[RANDLOVER]

I like that idea!


Can we put you down for a ticket?

[Graeme]

My son's D4 seized engine was a seized big-end next to a failed main bearing, with the big-end failure likely due to metal from the main bearing travelling to the big-end but possibly due to low oil pressure at the big-end or a combination of both.

The replacement engine is having its bearings replaced with tri-metal bearings. The original sputter bearings rely on a hard-wearing but very thin film over a soft aluminium and tin compound. One main bearing of the replacement engine (only 120K kms since new in 2011) has slight 1-sided wear indicating that the journal is slightly tapered. This is a crankshaft manufacturing / machining fault but which the mechanic considers acceptable with tri-metal bearings and doesn't warrant grinding or replacing the crankshaft. I wonder if the original engine had the same issue.

[shack]

Part of me wants to say.... " It doesn't cost much to grind a crank once it's out".

But I won't.

I don't know what I'd do tbh.

I had a TD5 block decked once, we had to put the timing cover back on to get it done.

Bizarrely enough they couldn't pick all the timing cover up when they did it.

They said they couldn't do any more, but at least it was better than when it left the factory!

No wonder they get leaks, I've always wanted to get a rocker cover done to see if that helps.

[Graeme]

Can't hold-up proceedings at this point to get the crank ground and it's unlikely to ever be an issue anyway now that it has tri-metal bearings rather than sputter bearings with their soft underlay.

[DazzaTD5]

*$10 - $15K - A 2.7 out of a territory into a D3 2.7 or a D4 2.7, basically swap the engine support frame, sump ancillary brackets etc. (a disco is worth say round $10K)
*$20 - $25K - A 3.0 used fitted into a D4 3.0 (a D4 3.0 is worth $10K - $25/30K)
*$20K (is only my own guess) - A 2.7 used fitted up as a 3.0, you are stripping a 2.7 leaving just the bottom end and the heads, everything else has to be swapped over, after doing 2, for me the labour is excessive compared to fitting a used 3.0, i'm not doing them for that reason.
*I'm sure there will be workshops that will do the above prices cheaper.... or dearer.

at least 2 businesses in the U.K are fitting bmw m57 diesels to D4, and at least 2 are offering all the parts required to do the job, I couldnt see any that are offering a complete kit,
I think I read one doing it for $7K British pounds, i'm guessing plus the cost of an engine?

3.0 v6 out of a ranger, I've pointed out that until someone strips a 3.0 v6 ranger engine to see how the oil separator and re-breather is in the block, then you are not going to know if its going to work or not.
From everything I can see the heads look the same, engine mount holes on one side of the block looks the same, the other side i'm not sure, perhaps the holes look too far forward, but I dont know. As used the engines are round $15K for a very low mileage, its too much for me to buy one just to see.