isuzu diesels

[dobbo]

Isuzu have made a lot of decent diesel truck engines, is there a reason to use a 4BD1 or 4BD1-T as opposed to the 4HG1 and 4HF1 engines?

[Dougal]

Isuzu have made a lot of decent diesel truck engines, is there a reason to use a 4BD1 or 4BD1-T as opposed to the 4HG1 and 4HF1 engines?

The main two reasons would be size and no electronic control.
IIRC the 4H series are OHC which should make them taller than the pushrod 4B series.

[JDNSW]

Without being familiar with the other engines, I suspect the main reason would be fitting them in, with a secondary point being compatibility of the torque curve with available gear ratios.

The 4BD1 is pretty much of a shoehorn job, and the major problem is likely to be engine height, with clearance on the bottom for the front axle housing and prop shaft while retaining the same crankshaft alignment. For example, the 4BD1 needed a different sump and oil filter setup.

John

[Bigbjorn]

Isuzu used to make a 3.5 litre six cylinder lightweight diesel engine for Thermo King who used it on their semi-trailer refrigeration units to replace heavier engines that were pulling the front out of the newer light-weight fibre-glass reefer vans. Thermo King used to show it as a Thermo King engine on their brochures. I have long thought this would be a great repower for a number of vehicles. One may need a different governor on the injection pump for variable speed use. Someone with more knowledge than I may be able to answer this.

[mcrover]

I was reading a bit of stuff from the US on the 4BD2T which apparently is basically the same block but a different head and is intercooled.

They apparently replaced the 4BD1 and built from 92 to 98.

Does anyone know if these engines were available in OZ as this could make getting a conversion to an update Disco 1 or Defender re power past EPA/ADR regs a bit easier.

[1103.9TDI]

'this could make getting a conversion to an update Disco 1 or Defender re power past EPA/ADR regs a bit easier'


Didn't realise that this was a problem, does anyone have any more information on this?.

[Dougal]

I was reading a bit of stuff from the US on the 4BD2T which apparently is basically the same block but a different head and is intercooled.

They apparently replaced the 4BD1 and built from 92 to 98.

Does anyone know if these engines were available in OZ as this could make getting a conversion to an update Disco 1 or Defender re power past EPA/ADR regs a bit easier.

4BD2 is indirect injection which makes it quieter but less efficient and slower starting. Th 4BD1T is more reliable too.
I have a turbo and manifold off a 4BD2 (same as the later 4BD1 turbo and manifold) which cracked it's head.

[mcrover]

'this could make getting a conversion to an update Disco 1 or Defender re power past EPA/ADR regs a bit easier'


Didn't realise that this was a problem, does anyone have any more information on this?.

I only say that as they tend to frown on dropping in a older engine into a newer car.

Rovercare (Matt) says it's possible, Im assuming you would need an engineers cert but you would anyway for an engine conversion I'd think but Im not 100%.

I know bugger all about these engines, I just thought it was interesting.

[1103.9TDI]

Just interested, the RTA may have an issue with the engineering of larger a capacity engine being installed in a vehicle with an original engine of a smaller capacity, thats a given. But if the EPA become more concerned about exhaust or crankcase fuming and/or noise polution on older diesels.........Greeny appeasing........that may spell an end to older diesel engines being installed in newer vehicles totally.

[Dougal]

Just interested, the RTA may have an issue with the engineering of larger a capacity engine being installed in a vehicle with an original engine of a smaller capacity, thats a given. But if the EPA become more concerned about exhaust or crankcase fuming and/or noise polution on older diesels.........Greeny appeasing........that may spell an end to older diesel engines being installed in newer vehicles totally.

In that case, you'd want to install the 4BD1T in a vehicle that had the 3.9 V8.

I'd support emissions standards and testing happily, but not limitations based on age or country of origin.

[1103.9TDI]

I've seen the crankcase breather on some NA and turbo units, throwing out almost a mist of fumes, and I've heard this is a concern to the RTA, when they inspect commercial vehicles-I'm talking 4BD1 specific here!. I have also seen that the later engines feed the breather straight back into the inlet manifold! (could get messy) so no worries with any exhaust....
......If they decide to cause any strife, it'll be on commercial road vehicles only, done on the age of the vehicle, and/or engine mileage/kays. They can't go too far, think of all the tractors, gensets, and forklifts, IHMO......:D

[Dougal]

I routed my breather tube back to the intake about 5 years ago.

[justinc]

I had no probs engineering the 4BD1 in the RRC, on paper the isuzu puts out far less kilowatts than a 3.9 V8,( Let alone the 4.6 that was in there!) and once they saw that they were quite happy:twisted::p


JC

[1103.9TDI]

I routed my breather tube back to the intake about 5 years ago.

Whereabouts does it enter the inlet manifold, mate?, I use mine to coat the inside of my chassis rails......


I had no probs engineering the 4BD1 in the RRC, on paper the isuzu puts out far less kilowatts than a 3.9 V8,( Let alone the 4.6 that was in there!) and once they saw that they were quite happy

Yeah, I know, my point is that the EPA mayhave a problem with older diesels used commercially in the future, anyway, it's all academic at this stage, and hopefully for the future.......

[Dougal]

Whereabouts does it enter the inlet manifold, mate?, I use mine to coat the inside of my chassis rails......

Just upstream of the turbo intake.
I have enough crap competing to lube my chassis rails.

[justinc]

Whereabouts does it enter the inlet manifold, mate?, I use mine to coat the inside of my chassis rails......



Yeah, I know, my point is that the EPA mayhave a problem with older diesels used commercially in the future, anyway, it's all academic at this stage, and hopefully for the future.......

Sorry, should've read closer Gerry, in Tas they are pretty laid back ATM about EPA regs, but agreed, in the future things may be a bit different.

JC

[paulthepilot_5]

Just wondering about the isuzu engines such as the 4BD1, is it common for them to have a fair bit of visible blow-by out of the breather. The 4BB1 i have in my engine has quite a bit, mind you it is older than the 4BD1.

sorry for the hijack :p

cheers Paul

[OLR-067]

I would be interested to know this as well.I have not checked on blow-by but I have just dropped the oil, done a flush with CEM, changed the oil filter but still getting a bit of black smoke during acceleration, runs clean at idle and cruise and a puff at start up. Also just started to use a fuel cleaner. At this stage I am waiting to see if it settles,but not sure if this is fairly normal.

Paul

[Dougal]

Just wondering about the isuzu engines such as the 4BD1, is it common for them to have a fair bit of visible blow-by out of the breather. The 4BB1 i have in my engine has quite a bit, mind you it is older than the 4BD1.

sorry for the hijack :p

cheers Paul

Mine had a slight draught at idle after a rebuild (i.e. not run in yet). A 4BC2 with about 100,000km on it had similar.

But under load, especially with a turbo you'd expect quite a lot coming through there. Isuzu wouldn't have put an oil/air seperator on it if wasn't needed.

[paulthepilot_5]

it is a bit hard to tell if it is blowby on mine, as the vacuum pump also exhausts into the crank case. There is a fair bit at idle, but it dose not seem to get much worse at high rpm.

[KhunMoo]

Paul, my 4BD1 used to blow a fair bit of black smoke cruising on the hwy. In June I dragged a 3ton trailer for 2,600km from Derby to Alice ... heaps of black smoke and I had to wring everything I could out of the old oiler (370,00km). From Kununurra onward I started adding Nulon Injector Cleaner to the fuel and by the time I got to Tenant Creek it was roaring along beautifully with very little grey smoke and pulling the load comfortably. It now runs well with a little bit of grey smoke under hard acceleration. I put the big improvement down to two things; a) the injectors needed cleaning and b) I reckon the cyclinders may have been a little glazed from years of light work pulling a 110 instead of a loaded truck. The really hard work for 6 days straight clearly sorted that out.
This Xmas I'm doing another trailer trip, this time ASP to Adelaide and will bung in some Nulon again. From Adel to Vic high country and back I will be running home brew bio-diesel, so I will be really interested to see how that goes.

Personally, I think the 4BD1 doesn't slog hard enough in a 110 to keep it happy. Mine spent many years of its early life with the original owner dragging horse trailers and that probably a good thing. A better fit for the vehicle weight would be the later 4BE1 (3.1lt I think).

JohnS (khunmoo)

[OLR-067]

Cheers John,
I was figuring it just needs to be worked harder. I started last week to add nulon cleaner.Just seems to blow black under acceleration, seems to be down on power a little too.Anyway, I'll see how it goes and try and find some hills.Might be time to go bush.

Cheers
Paul

[Dougal]

Cheers John,
I was figuring it just needs to be worked harder. I started last week to add nulon cleaner.Just seems to blow black under acceleration, seems to be down on power a little too.Anyway, I'll see how it goes and try and find some hills.Might be time to go bush.

Cheers
Paul

How's your aircleaner? Black smoke and loss of power points directly to that.

[Dinty]

G'day All, Paul stop worrying about it, pedal to the floor will make black smoke, mines got a heap of klicks on it and it makes bugger all smoke even with right foot flat to the floor pulling hard, mine had the injectors done about 10 years ago, and just regular servicing since, I don't subscribe to so called injector cleaning additives, anyway bound to get some flak cheers mate Dennis:wasntme:

[justinc]

At 490k and turboed with never having yet had the injectors serviced, I get a small amount of greyish smoke on full fuel, I have minimal blowby and suspect that a rebuild at the moment is a complete waste of my $$$

I love these engines.

JC

[paulthepilot_5]

ok thanks for that i will stop worrying about it :D

Just one last question, i went to get a new thermostat from ISUZU yesterday, and they do not have one that is the same temperature as the one i took out (which was 76.5C) the lowest one they have is 82C. I have a bit of a feeling that the one i took out of my 4BB1 may have been too cold, as the water temp has never run over about 82c even when working hard on a 40c day. Could this higher temp thermostat cause any problems?

Cheers

[paulthepilot_5]

Forgot to mention in my last post, My engine dose blow some grey smoke on start up until warmed up, then just a little whilst running. It has not ever realy blown black smoke under load, just more of a grey colour. Could this be a sign of the engine not quite running up to teperature. I dont think it is burning oil, as the oil consumption is very low.

[DRanged]

Forgot to mention in my last post, My engine dose blow some grey smoke on start up until warmed up, then just a little whilst running. It has not ever realy blown black smoke under load, just more of a grey colour. Could this be a sign of the engine not quite running up to teperature. I dont think it is burning oil, as the oil consumption is very low.

Pretty sure mine is around the 80 deg mark and runs fine on a hot day with the air con on. Cant see upping it by 5.5 deg from your old 76.5 being a huge problem.Isuzu would'nt sell it otherwise.

Justin

[dobbo]

Forgot to mention in my last post, My engine dose blow some grey smoke on start up until warmed up, then just a little whilst running. It has not ever realy blown black smoke under load, just more of a grey colour. Could this be a sign of the engine not quite running up to teperature. I dont think it is burning oil, as the oil consumption is very low.


My little 2.25D does the same thing I thought it was caused by dodgy glow plugs. Clears up on normal running temperatures

[Dougal]

The only way I can make my 4BD1T heat (that's heat, not overheat) is to thrash it up a skifield road.

We're talking 1500m vertical in about 20 minutes, pulling 4th gear in some spots.

My temp needle does follow the fuel guage needle (thanks LUCAS), but the engine temp is rock solid.

[Larns]

The proper thurmostat temp is 82. That's what the workshop manual states.
I do recall someone saying that the Isuzu is very dependent on the temp being right. I would belive the higher cylinder temp would be more desirable as 76 is bloody cold for a diesel

Hope this helps

[Jack the Lad]

Hey all. Long time reader first time poster (virgin..Be gentle!!:o). I have just purchased my third landy and second seriesII. It has a 3.9 Isuzu and overdrive, all mod plated. Have any of you seen this in a s2 and if so have there been any problems with the stock box/transfer/diff/axles handling the extra torque?:spudniklifter:

[paulthepilot_5]

Hey all. Long time reader first time poster (virgin..Be gentle!!:o). I have just purchased my third landy and second seriesII. It has a 3.9 Isuzu and overdrive, all mod plated. Have any of you seen this in a s2 and if so have there been any problems with the stock box/transfer/diff/axles handling the extra torque?:spudniklifter:

I don't think you would get very long live out of the box with the ISUZU stuck in front of it. A lot more power and vibration going through it than it was originaly designed for.

[100I]

I don't think you would get very long live out of the box with the ISUZU stuck in front of it. A lot more power and vibration going through it than it was originaly designed for.

but the SII crashbox is said to be tougher than the SIII

[rovercare]

but the SII crashbox is said to be tougher than the SIII


ToughER not tough;)

[1103.9TDI]

Who knows, might be an LT95/Fairley out of a Stage One!.........

[paulthepilot_5]

Who knows, might be an LT95/Fairley out of a Stage One!.........

if it had an LT95 in it would be a great truck

[Jack the Lad]

Am swapping my series one for series III diff assemblies and, if necessary Lt95. Dont know if box will fit but have oxy, will travel.:firedevil: I am assuming that I am going to have to shorten/lengthen the prop shaft/s... Am i going to have to fab or move cross members to get Lt95 in?:twobeers:S funny, I havent even seen the sII yet!! Bloody thing is still sitting ina shed three hours away. Ol mate mention 3.9 oiler on the phone and I got all excited... And i make fun of blokes who get mail order brides!!:D

[kingyrules]

hey guys just looking at updating to diesel! new to them but looking for more, what are some of the things to look out for on a late 90's disco. thanks :D

[C H T]

The proper thurmostat temp is 82. That's what the workshop manual states.
I do recall someone saying that the Isuzu is very dependent on the temp being right. I would belive the higher cylinder temp would be more desirable as 76 is bloody cold for a diesel

Hope this helps

1. Larns is right - the standard factory thermostat for a 4BD1/T is set at 82 degrees C - it is possible to get a factory 84 degree unit. According to Isuzu it is very important to keep operating temp under about 95 degrees C to avoid pistons picking up in the bore. My 4BD1T runs at 79-85 degrees and ususlly settles at about 82 after running for an hour plus.
2. Re the later Isuzus - I have heard of a 4HE1 being fitted to a 110 in Perth - the main problems are adapting the engine to the gearbox, and the fact that the exhaust exits on the right hand side of the engine. Height might be a bit of an issue.
3. Legalities. The situation varies from state to state. I had no problems getting approval of the 4BD1T conversion of my Defender (in QLD). The engine must comply with the ADRs relevant to the ADRs the vehicle was built to comply with. As far as I know this means the cut off for using a 4BD1/T is a 300Tdi DEF/Disco - any thing earlier is not an issue. TD5s were built to later ADRs and therfore would be difficult to get complianced.

I trust that this helps
Christopher

[Zcoota]

I routed my breather tube back to the intake about 5 years ago.

Kicking a bit of life into an old post. Just wondering if anyone has done this and has some long term feedback / issues ? I'm looking to do something with the crankcase breather just to avoid fumes into the cabin. I seem to have become very sensitive to the fumes my County makes and at this stage I think the crankcase breather is the major culprit of cabin smells.

[Vern]

Kicking a bit of life into an old post. Just wondering if anyone has done this and has some long term feedback / issues ? I'm looking to do something with the crankcase breather just to avoid fumes into the cabin. I seem to have become very sensitive to the fumes my County makes and at this stage I think the crankcase breather is the major culprit of cabin smells.Got a provent200, vent it back into the intake pre turbo, jobs done

[Zcoota]

Got a provent200, vent it back into the intake pre turbo, jobs done


No turbo yet but I think I'll do that. Do you run the oil drain back to the sump on the provent ?

[tc_s1]

Pretty sure mine is around the 80 deg mark and runs fine on a hot day with the air con on. Cant see upping it by 5.5 deg from your old 76.5 being a huge problem.Isuzu would'nt sell it otherwise.

JustinBeen running that for the past year and other than me having to adjust to the 'new normal' while watching the gaige haven't encountered an issue. This includes two long trips under load with a small off road trailer in tow as well.

[steveG]

No turbo yet but I think I'll do that. Do you run the oil drain back to the sump on the provent ?

Yes -that's what I've done with mine. Not 100% needed if you don't want to - you could simply run some sort of catch can/bottle and empty it occasionally.

Steve