Series 2 or 3 with Softtop owners pls...

[Tomkah]

Hi guys,

my restoration is (slowly) coming to an end (yeah, right...)...

Anyway, I want to convert my Series 3 SWB to a soft top. Can anybody send me / post a pictures of what the seat belts are fitted to?

They used to be bolted to a mounting point on the hard top (the upper bit that is)...but where does it go on a soft top?

Thanks,

Thomas
thomas_kuenzel@yahoo.com

[Phoenix]

I've only got lap sash belts in my soft top series 3.

I have seen some attached to the top of the bulkhead though.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I've only got lap sash belts in my soft top series 3.

I have seen some attached to the top of the bulkhead though.

That would be lap belts, otherwise known as "2 point" belts.

My S2B trayback, deluxe cab trim, has the 3rd (shoulder) point on the gal capping behind the seat.

On the same issue, where is the 3rd point usually fixed on a ute cab?


Diana

[Davo]

My S2B trayback, deluxe cab trim, has the 3rd (shoulder) point on the gal capping behind the seat.

I've gone from a soft-top to a ute cab. On the soft-top, I had static 3-point belts with the shoulder part fitted as mentioned above. The galvy capping has a welded-in nut for seatbelts.

With the cab-roof, there are brackets you can get to fit the shoulder strap up next to your head. I've seen hard-top type brackets used but there are specific brackets you're supposed to use for the cab.

[Fusion]

I'll be mounting my seatbelts to the bulkhead behind the seat. But could be going with just the lap belts yet :confused:

[Lotz-A-Landies]

.... With the cab-roof, there are brackets you can get to fit the shoulder strap up next to your head. I've seen hard-top type brackets used but there are specific brackets you're supposed to use for the cab.
Thanks Davo

So now I need to find a set of ute cab seat belt brackets - maybe even a the whole cab which hasn't had an elephant sit on it? :D:D:D

Cheers
Diana

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I'll be mounting my seatbelts to the bulkhead behind the seat. But could be going with just the lap belts yet :confused:
Andy

I would be avoiding 2 point belts at all costs, there are some very significant dangers with their use in a crash.

Diana

[DiscoDave]

On the soft-top, I had static 3-point belts with the shoulder part fitted as mentioned above. The galvy capping has a welded-in nut for seatbelts.

Could you post a photo please? My SIII came with 2-point belts in pretty bad condition and it would probably be a good thing to replace them with something safer. ;)

[Fusion]

Andy

I would be avoiding 2 point belts at all costs, there are some very significant dangers with their use in a crash.

Diana

Hi Diana . No doubt that the sash belt is a lot better than the lap belt . But isn't any seat belt better than none at all . I don't have to get them in my 2a but i'm putting them in anyways . :)

[JDNSW]

Hi Diana . No doubt that the sash belt is a lot better than the lap belt . But isn't any seat belt better than none at all . I don't have to get them in my 2a but i'm putting them in anyways . :)

I agree with you. Three point belts are a lot better than two point - but the really big difference is between any seat belt and none. Diana is comparing two types of seat belt, not looking at the alternative that may be no seat belt at all.

Not directly related, but the fixed (non inertia reel) three point belt is in some respects safer than the inertia reel type, if properly adjusted, so don't worry too much if you can't fit these, although reaching the handbrake or starter button of the earlier Series Landrovers while wearing one is an acquired skill.

John

John

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hi Diana . No doubt that the sash belt is a lot better than the lap belt . But isn't any seat belt better than none at all . I don't have to get them in my 2a but i'm putting them in anyways . :)
Actually lap only belts are almost as bad as no belts.

The injuries caused by lap belts are quite different. With the lap belt the upper body is unrestrained while the hips are restrained and this itself causes BIG problems. For the driver the upper body pivots at the hips and this brings the forehead down onto the steering wheel and significant risk of skull fractures and cervical spine injuries - death.
For all lap only belt wearers the contents of the abdomen are squashed into the thoracic cavity: lung injuries, liver and spleen lacerations, rupture of the stomach with emptying of stomach or bowel contents into the thoracic cavity and lacerations to major blood vessels.
Whiplash injuries are also worse because of the extra momentum of the upper body (which would otherwise be restrained by the sash belt).
Without any belt the driver's chest and abdomen absorbs the energy as it folds around the steering wheel. The potential for fatal consequences of an unrestrained driver hitting the steering wheel is probably less than for lap belt restrained driver.

In any case I would not fit lap only belts to any vehicle I own. There are always options for 3 or 4 point harnesses.

Diana

[Davo]

Could you post a photo please? My SIII came with 2-point belts in pretty bad condition and it would probably be a good thing to replace them with something safer.

I still haven't worked out how to post photos yet . . . I thought you had to have them stored on some site like Photobucket or something. Can someone give a quick explanation?

[PAT303]

I have a soft top for a SWB ute cab if anyone is interested. Pat

[JDNSW]

Actually lap only belts are almost as bad as no belts.

The injuries caused by lap belts are quite different. With the lap belt the upper body is unrestrained while the hips are restrained and this itself causes BIG problems. For the driver the upper body pivots at the hips and this brings the forehead down onto the steering wheel and significant risk of skull fractures and cervical spine injuries - death.
For all lap only belt wearers the contents of the abdomen are squashed into the thoracic cavity: lung injuries, liver and spleen lacerations, rupture of the stomach with emptying of stomach or bowel contents into the thoracic cavity and lacerations to major blood vessels.
Whiplash injuries are also worse because of the extra momentum of the upper body (which would otherwise be restrained by the sash belt).
Without any belt the driver's chest and abdomen absorbs the energy as it folds around the steering wheel. The potential for fatal consequences of an unrestrained driver hitting the steering wheel is probably less than for lap belt restrained driver.

In any case I would not fit lap only belts to any vehicle I own. There are always options for 3 or 4 point harnesses.

Diana

While not disputing anything you say, I still hold the view that they provide more protection than no belt - any accident that results in the injuries you describe with a lap belt will result in worse injuries when the non belt wearer hits the interior of the vehicle or is ejected from the vehicle (very likely in a Series Landrover with no antiburst locks). The driver is only one of the occupants, the others do not have the steering wheel to hit. Then there are the large number of minor accidents (or even severe braking) where a lap belt means the difference between no injury and significant injuries - I have been in one of them in a Moke, for example neither myself nor the passenger were injured when I ran into the back of another car.

John

[gumby190]

Seatbelts???

Hmmm...
Been thinking about putting some lap belts in Daisy.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

While not disputing anything you say, I still hold the view that they provide more protection than no belt - ...John
John

I absolutely respect what you say and I have a friend who suffered significant injuries after being thrown from a Moke Californian rear seat with no belts.

On the other hand, on a number of occasions, I have been in the trauma room of emergency departments when patients were admitted with life threatening injuries caused by lap belts. On most of these occasions the passengers wearing lap sash belts walked away with minimal or no injuries.

My philosophy now is that any car driven on the road (or off road for that matter) should have seat belts. AND those seat belts should be either 3 point, 4 point or 5 point harnesses.

There is very little extra work fitting a 3 point harness than there is fitting a 2 point harness. In the series 2 and 3 Land Rovers, the transom behind the front seats is an adequate (but not ideal) height for a 3rd point anchorage.

If we are talking about a series 1 Land Rover soft top, where the tub sides are too low for a 3 point harness and where there is no roll bar, I would be suggesting a 4 point harness with the anchor for the shoulder straps going right back to the rear of the tub.

Diana

[olmate]

I totally agree with you Diana. Whilst olmate has only lap belts I have thought on numerous occassions why I have been 'only' too lazy to fix the ptoblem and fit - at least - a three point belt. It takes nothing to do this. Many times I have been concerned as the lap belt only holds you in situ whilst the rest of you gets clobbered in an accident.

Better pull my finger out I reckon.

[gumby190]

Looking on Fleabay, $60 odd bucks ain't to bad for a 4 point harness.

COMMODORE VT VY HSV SS 4 POINT HARNESS RACING SEAT BELT - eBay, Other Performance Parts, Turbo, Performance Parts, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 18-Jan-08 10:42:43 AEDST) (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/COMMODORE-VT-VY-HSV-SS-4-POINT-HARNESS-RACING-SEAT-BELT_W0QQitemZ110213935329QQihZ001QQcategoryZ43807 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

[srowlandson]

Looking on Fleabay, $60 odd bucks ain't to bad for a 4 point harness.

COMMODORE VT VY HSV SS 4 POINT HARNESS RACING SEAT BELT - eBay, Other Performance Parts, Turbo, Performance Parts, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 18-Jan-08 10:42:43 AEDST) (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/COMMODORE-VT-VY-HSV-SS-4-POINT-HARNESS-RACING-SEAT-BELT_W0QQitemZ110213935329QQihZ001QQcategoryZ43807 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
if it wasn't AS rated I wouldn't touch it.

Steve

[gumby190]

Gotta be better than the oxygen that hold me in.................................

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Gumby

When I talk about 4 point - I am referring to 4 points of restraint on the body. i.e. both hips and both shoulders. A 5 point restraint being the 4 points mentioned above and an extra below the seat between the legs.

It seems that there are different descriptions that refer to the number of points of anchorage and many are designed to fit through holes in a racing seat back above each shoulder. If one of these 4 anchorage point harnesses is used without the appropriate type of seat and has the rear two points too far apart there is a risk of the shoulders slipping between the shoulder straps. So be careful.

There are also harnesses which restrain 4 points of the body by 3 points on the car. This one is ADR approved 3 Point Racing Harness Seat Belt - Blue MONZA - ADR App - eBay In-Car Accessories, Interior Accessories, Car Accessories, Tuning, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 24-Jan-08 20:39:58 AEDST) (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/3-Point-Racing-Harness-Seat-Belt-Blue-MONZA-ADR-App_W0QQitemZ250207098716QQihZ015QQcategoryZ6775QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

C Ya
Diana

[gumby190]

I had one like this on a bush basher I used to own back in the day, it had a bridging strap that clipped together halfway up the straps in the middle of your chest, if I was going to get a harness I would try & find another like it, saved me a world of pain a few times. The rollbar I have just put in has a seatbelt mount point for the conventional style of retractable belts.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

... The rollbar I have just put in has a seatbelt mount point for the conventional style of retractable belts.
Very sensible!

[JDNSW]

if it wasn't AS rated I wouldn't touch it.

Steve

An unrated seat belt may be perfectly safe. The problem is that you don't know. Also, probably illegal - while seat belts may not be required legally on many Series Landrovers, if fitted, I believe they must be approved types - unless they were fitted before approval was required, which could be the case for most Series 2/2a and all Series 1.

John

[JDNSW]

Just as an aside, I have had (three point) seat belts in all the cars I have ever owned, back to 1961. Those planning absolute authenticity in Landrovers 2a and earlier that are not required legally to have seat belts by not fitting belts, should bear in mind that the really big improvement in road safety in the 1970s was the introduction of compulsory seat belt wearing. No other change in vehicle design has come even close to making as big an improvement to road safety, the only change coming close has been random breath testing.

Also, remember that the effectiveness of seat belts in saving lives was first established in the fifties by the Snowy Mountains Authority - mostly in Series 1 Landrovers!

John

[Tomkah]

Me male...need picture...talk no good...please...

:angel:

[Davo]

Me male...need picture...talk no good...please...

I guess I'll have a go on the weekend!


Read here Photobucket - How to Use

Cripes . . . another bloody thing to sign up on and remember a password for!!!

Oh well, for the good of the Land-Rover community . . . :p

[Lotz-A-Landies]

John

On a personal note, if I were asked to judge a series 1 or series 2/2a at any show and shine type event. I would never mark down a modification for safety reasons in a road registered car.

For other than vehicles currently under restoration, If it's not road registered what is the point of having it at a show, even on farm vehicles should probably have belts if any 4X4 is involved.

Diana

[DiscoDave]

Cripes . . . another bloody thing to sign up on and remember a password for!!!

Oh well, for the good of the Land-Rover community . . . :p

For a 'quick and dirty' photo post you can use Imagevenue - ImageVenue.com - Image Hosting and Image Upload (http://www.imagevenue.com/)
- no accounts, signup or login needed, just select the photos for upload, indicate if they are 'not suitable for work', and press send. Wait for the upload to finish and you get a screen of code to cut and paste into a forum post. The code is thumbnails for all the images you uploaded.
The drawback is you can never find the photos again unless you save a copy of the code somewhere and there may be ads unsuitable for children displayed when people click on the thumbnails. (I use an add blocker so I don't actually know what's there.)