Route Planning - Advice Please...

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Guys I need help...
As many of you know I will be accompanying Leeds in November to do some off-road driving.

The original plan was to do the Canning Stock Route plus whatever else we had time for but it seems that is not a wise move in November.

So... Now we need a new plan... and your advice.

Current thoughts are that I will fly into Darwin and meet up with Leeds in his Land Rover (2nd / 3rd November perhaps). Spend the month driving and then bail out at Alice Springs where I/we can do the touristy bit before flying back to Darwin and then home on 30th Nov.

After reading ExploreOz.com and the top 10 4WD Treks it appears that there may be a sort of route developing if we consider Mitchell Plateau, Gibb River Road, Paradurdoo to Murchison via Mt Augustus and Gun Barrell Highway or Great Central Road. The first problem though is there seems to be a lot of "road" between the southern end of the Gibb River Road and the northern end of the "Paradurdoo...", then again between the end of the "Paradurdoo..." and the western end of the Gunbarrel / Great Central.

Essentially then the route would start in Darwin, see a few of the sites en-route to the Gibb River road, over some of the other 4WD Treks, leading back towards Alice Springs...

So, is this a doable plan or another no-no??

Can anyone suggest a good months 4WD treks starting from Darwin, ending in Alice Springs??

Thanks..

[EchiDna]

I assume you are flying into Darwin on a discount fare from Tiger Airways or something?

most of the area you are talking about is still going to be affected by the buildup - it's going to be mid thirties or higher the whole time you are there and the closer you are to the coast, the higher the humidity (think 90%rh or more, I'm not joking!) without a moment of respite, there will probably not be too many flies but IMHO, it is considered just about unbearable for most of the locals (supposedly more than 1/3 disapear south for this season), never mind autumnal travellers form the UK

anyway not to put you off, but if I had only a month and it had to be in November, I'd get onto another plane from Darwin and head south for the Vic/NSW high country... november is typically too early for fires, and not so hot as to be unbearable (mid twenties during the day).

I'd say 90% or more of travellers to the northern 1/3 of Australia do so from May-September - for a good reason!

[Pedro_The_Swift]

at that time of the year one things for sure---

you'll have most tracks to yourself!








what was that early Joe Cocker album???
:p

[WhiteD3]

Off the topic but


I've got a record (black shiny disk with a hole in it) somewhere and the opening track has this French guy introducing the band saying......"Zee mad dogs....zee Englishmen.....and Joe Cockeeeer...!!

[Pedro_The_Swift]

;)

and this classic---


"I wus just gunna say dont get hung up about easter"

[dmdigital]

I assume you are flying into Darwin on a discount fare from Tiger Airways or something?

most of the area you are talking about is still going to be affected by the buildup - it's going to be mid thirties or higher the whole time you are there and the closer you are to the coast, the higher the humidity (think 90%rh or more, I'm not joking!) without a moment of respite, there will probably not be too many flies but IMHO, it is considered just about unbearable for most of the locals (supposedly more than 1/3 disapear south for this season), never mind autumnal travellers form the UK

anyway not to put you off, but if I had only a month and it had to be in November, I'd get onto another plane from Darwin and head south for the Vic/NSW high country... november is typically too early for fires, and not so hot as to be unbearable (mid twenties during the day).

I'd say 90% or more of travellers to the northern 1/3 of Australia do so from May-September - for a good reason!

Lot of truth there, though the flies should have gone south too.

The worst 2 months of the year up this way are October and November. That said 2007 was actually quite pleasant, December was crap. Temperatures in Darwin and down to Katherine are going to be 35-40C, humidity will be high, cloud cover will be sparce, sun will be slightly to the south but almost overhead, UV radiation will be listed as extreme.

See this site: Climate statistics for Australian locations (http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/tables/cw_014016.shtml)

[Yorkshire_Jon]

The original plan was to fly into Darwin for the CSR, no other reason as it sort of made sense and we thought Leeds would be around that area at that time.

I suspect though that at this early stage I could fly in anywhere and the Land Rover could divert towards that airport...

That means our options are still wide open as nothing is set in stone / booked yet.

Thinking caps on boys...please.

[Xtreme]

As EchiDna said in post #2 the south east of the island is the area to be touring during November. The Victorian High Country is one area that has been mentioned.

For an interesting four week trip, I would suggest a route that would include the VicHigh country then continue north through some interesting forest & National Park tracks, maybe even take in a few beaches with nice camp spots to about Sydney or maybe a little further north. Then head west to experience some of the more arid areas (Camerons Corner / Innamincka) before heading south to finish at either Adelaide or Melbourne.

Total distance between 5 & 6000kms with a mix of scenery and road/track conditions.

I'm also sure that some of the members of this forum &/or associated Land Rover Clubs would be more than willing & keen to meet up with you at various points along the way and lead you through some of the interesting tracks and areas in their 'backyard'.

Let me know if this would be to your liking and I'll expand on the route with more detail and suggested times for each area. I'd also need to know of any special interests (to maybe include certain things/areas) you and leeds may have - apart from Land Rovers and 4WDing!

[LSBob]

The Top End is very hot, humid and uncomfortable during November with the buildup and you will notice it coming from a lot cooler England. The temperature is also very high at night often without any breeze. If you are camping out a tent can be stuffy though you can buy a small portable fan to assist in cooling you. But at night there is a buildup of insects and the termites mass and fly off to a new home so any fluro light soon gets smothered with them. Some beetles also do mass migrations at night and in the morning the ground is covered with them. Is your vehicle air conditioned else you will fry during the day also.
You could still do Litchfield NP 1 day and a couple of days in Kakadu but there will not be any water coming over the falls at Jim Jim. There may be the odd thunderstorm and they can look spetacular coming across the plains but they can also be dangerous if you get caught in one.
Katherine will still be operating cruises up the Gorge but at a reduced schedule. Alice Springs will be very hot, up to the 40s but very dry, you will find it uncomfortable to spend a lot of time outside.
Accommodation will be cheaper though as this is the worse time to visit, gets more popular in January when the area is green and there is water around.
But drop in anyhow, we still love to meet you or better still come back when the weather is better!!
Actually I will not be here in November as SWMBO has a neice and nephew getting married overseas at that time, 2 separate weddings.

[lewy]

don't discount the tropical areas just because it is the buildup.it will be hot and humid for sure but the storm season can start novemberish and we have some sensational storms in the top end.locals [im not a local to the top end as i have only been here 7 years]seem to avoid the desert tracks in the hotter months. you have to remember most of these tracks have had several months of tourist pressure on them by november and can be very rough ie corrugation's,i suggest have an open itinerary and if the weather is bad plan to travel south by the highways.perhaps consider darwin,katherine then to the kimberlies then with local advise travel the tanimi track to alice springs,the tanami will be very demanding on the vehicle and yourself's this time of the year.perhaps big john can advise from alice springs.anyway hope this helps. dont hesitate to contact anyone on this site cheers

[Blknight.aus]

there some nice stuff to see along the east coast and if you stay below the tropic line it'll be quite bearable as well...

mid to south end of wa would be worth a look too.

and the high country should be nice along with any of the vinyard areas depending on your taste.

[sadbenn]

We have just returned from Birdsville via Innamincka, WIndoorah etc, 2 weeks of isolated bliss, lovely time to go is now, still reaching 40 degrees even now, but the heat is lovely and dry.:)
Think in November northern reaches of Auz would be melting weather, and wet wet wet, which of course looks fantastic but feels horrible.:(
... Vic high country and trip up the track back down to SA sounds fab for the four weeks.( but difficult to do if you fligh to darwin..:D)
good that plans arent set in stone though, you have plenty of research to do... great places to see out there, enjoy, what ever you decide on.
SADbenn

[camel_landy]

The way I worked out my trip was like this:


Read through the guide books & work out where to visit.
Work out when NOT to be in the tropics. i.e. See if any of the places we want to visit have to be done in a certain time frame - Cape York. :D
Get an 'Explore Oz by 4WD' type book...
Link up as many of those places to visit by using as many of the routes in the book as possible. :cool:


We were in Darwin in early July... It was warm but quite pleasant.

M

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Thanks for the replies. Ive had a look at the map and also considered what Leeds will be doing in the months when Im not there.

Essentially Sydney, Broken Hill, Cairns, Cape York will all have been taken care of.

Wherever I leave the Land Rover at the End of November, Leeds has to be within 2 weeks drive of Sydney (top get the LR back into the container and on the ship).

As another thought, and keeping to the "finish at Alice Springs" theory. What would it be like if (dont know if this is possible with Leeds yet) I flew into Perth and then headed towards Alice Springs??? There are a few of the top 10 drives along that route (Great Central Road, Paraduroo bla bla and Gunbarrel) - Does this have the making of a good month???

[Michael2]

Hi John,

As already noted, the Sept-Nov period can get oppresive in the tropics. The weather becomes progressivly hotter with increased humidity. Most people travel up there during March-Aug.

However, IMHO the best time is Dec-Jan:D.

During the Wet Season you will have oppressive days quenched with a predicatable afternoon thunderstorm. The massive clouds rolling in and the smell of the rain laden air, while you swim in one of many abundant waterholes in the warm summer rain is worth the effort to be there.

There will hardly be any tourist at that time, roads may be closed due to flash floods, though usually not for more than half a day, unless you get a Tidal River (like the Victoria) flooding during a full moon, then expect to be stranded for a week+.

While you can't venture as far off the road during the wet, you will see a whole lot more. Rocky escarpments will become waterfalls with fresh water & no crocs. Ravines will flood to form tranquil pools.

You're not there for work, so you have no need to hurry, just travel slow and easy and the weather won't get on top of you.

The Kimberely will probably offer you the widest divergence of landscapes and moutain ranges.

[Xtreme]

.................................................. ..
Wherever I leave the Land Rover at the End of November, Leeds has to be within 2 weeks drive of Sydney (top get the LR back into the container and on the ship).

As another thought, and keeping to the "finish at Alice Springs" theory. What would it be like if (dont know if this is possible with Leeds yet) I flew into Perth and then headed towards Alice Springs??? There are a few of the top 10 drives along that route (Great Central Road, Paraduroo bla bla and Gunbarrel) - Does this have the making of a good month???

G'day Jon,

Firstly I'd advise Leeds to rethink his plans about shipping out of Sydney. I know of one recent case where a Land Rover was shipped from Sydney and when removed from the container weeks later it was so badly damaged that it was a writeoff. Apparantly it wasn't secured properly when loaded, and I have since heard that this is not uncommon when shipping from Sydney.
Melbourne, Brisbane or Darwin are the recommended Aussie ports to ship from. Just a word of warning.

Secondly, regarding your proposed route - there is some spectacular country along the route you suggested with long drives between them and not much challenging 4WDing. The Gunbarrel has hundreds and hundreds of miles of corrugations (some of the worst I've experienced). The Great Central Road is a 2WD unsealed highway which you will need to travel between the Gunbarrel and The Rock.
It just depends on what you want to experience during your (short) time in Australia.

[Tango51]

Hi John,

As already noted, the Sept-Nov period can get oppresive in the tropics. The weather becomes progressivly hotter with increased humidity. Most people travel up there during March-Aug.

However, IMHO the best time is Dec-Jan:D.

During the Wet Season you will have oppressive days quenched with a predicatable afternoon thunderstorm. The massive clouds rolling in and the smell of the rain laden air, while you swim in one of many abundant waterholes in the warm summer rain is worth the effort to be there.

There will hardly be any tourist at that time, roads may be closed due to flash floods, though usually not for more than half a day, unless you get a Tidal River (like the Victoria) flooding during a full moon, then expect to be stranded for a week+.

While you can't venture as far off the road during the wet, you will see a whole lot more. Rocky escarpments will become waterfalls with fresh water & no crocs. Ravines will flood to form tranquil pools.

You're not there for work, so you have no need to hurry, just travel slow and easy and the weather won't get on top of you.

The Kimberely will probably offer you the widest divergence of landscapes and moutain ranges.

Spoken like a born and bred Top-Ender!
I hesitated to give this advice but it is how I feel also.
Growing up there means this view maybe opposed by most, but if you are hardy and resilient enough to handle it, then it will be the most rewarding trip possible in Aussie at this time.

The Big Wet is a time of miracles, parrots toddling along the ground away from you so fat they can't lift off, dingoes prancing in the water next to wild whistling ducks, stretches of road underwater, glass horizon to horizon.

I also encourage you to do your own research, local knowledge!
Australia is like two countries, north and south.
No wish to be offensive, but 'Southerners' have a reputation for 'knowing it all' and yet always needing rescuing whilst in the North, but statistically most plough through doing all the wrong things and are blissfully unaware of what COULD have befallen them.
Probably your worst source of info is someone not from the north but who has done a few trips.
They will tell you with great certainty what to do because they have done it.....but maybe they were just lucky.
It is worth finding out for sure, and I have seen some good posts from Darwin/Kimberly folk on threads here.
I've seen far more of the other:wasntme:
HTH

[dullbird]

my god its starting to sound like a beatrix potter book in here:o

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Morning all...

First I couldnt wait to get to Darwin, then it was a "no-no" in November, now it seems like it'll be a spectacularly good journey.

Arrrrrhhh... Im getting dizzy!!!!


Tango51 and Michael2...
Clearly "Top Enders" (is that the right local description:angel:).

So, Darwin and the top end may still be a good trip, but I assume that the CSR is still a "no go" in November???



On a further note, if the Great Central is a 2WD route, then, if its a means to an end (i.e. gets us to Alice) i'd have no worries using it, but it certainly wouldnt be on the wish list to simply say we'd done it.

Think I need more than a month's trip :D:D:D:D

[Yorkshire_Jon]

...You need more than 4 weeks or need to come back again.;)


Already started considering that!!!

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Spoken like a born and bred Top-Ender!
I hesitated to give this advice but it is how I feel also.
Growing up there means this view maybe opposed by most, but if you are hardy and resilient enough to handle it, then it will be the most rewarding trip possible in Aussie at this time.

The Big Wet is a time of miracles, parrots toddling along the ground away from you so fat they can't lift off, dingoes prancing in the water next to wild whistling ducks, stretches of road underwater, glass horizon to horizon.

I also encourage you to do your own research, local knowledge!


I really like the sound of "a time of miracles" and when in doubt I always try to find local, upto the minute knowledge before setting out anywhere.

Assuming for a second that we are hardy and reslilliant enough to bear the humidity and heat, and discounting the Canning Stock route on the grounds that it probably just wont be doable in November, is there plenty of other driving to be done?

Ive read about the countless things to see and do between Darwin - Katherine and onto Alice but are these aimed squarely at the 2wd tourists or is there the opportunity for 4WDing??

Whats the chances of doing something interesting / challenging in WA? Im thinking perhaps Darwin, coast road west and south and then at some point below the wet stuff head east back to Alice?

[JamesH]

Whats the chances of doing something interesting / challenging in WA? Im thinking perhaps Darwin, coast road west and south and then at some point below the wet stuff head east back to Alice?

Just to give you an idea of the distances involved. I take four weeks off in July and drive to the Kimberley from Perth and back. I do 8000-9000 km which gets me a bit beyond the WA border to a station where some friends live. It's a great trip but getting to sleep somewhere for two nights is a rare treat. We drive everyday pretty much. The circle route you describe it just too big.

Last year from Perth we did central road to Alice Springs via Leonora, Giles Uluhru etc and then down the Old Ghan track and home to William Creek (http://www.williamcreekhotel.net.au/). Coober Pedy (http://www.cooberpedy.sa.gov.au/site/page.cfm?u=191) , Mt Augusta and home. Loved it.

My best guess for you is grab the car and hightail it down to Alice (1400km!) and spend some time doing the sights. It's not bitumen there are some beautiful things to see along desert roads. Perhaps take some of the old railroad track in. You can either hightail it back to Darwin or keep heading South and ship the car home from Adelaide.

You will have done Australia down the guts. No small drive and plenty of lonely gravel roads and tracks.

[TwoUp]

Just a thought.
What about Sydney to Adelaide, taking in the beaches, western regions and mountainous dividing range? You can fly from Adelaide to Alice for just under AU$400.
A couple of weeks will get you started and thirst for more.

Regards,
PeterW

[LSBob]

Some did get a bit lyrical about the Wet but in November there is not much rain, heavy thunderstorms in parts which can close an area for a hour or so but not enough to have waterfalls running of the Escarpment or the lagoons full of water and birds.
A lot of the countryside in now black from the bushfires and it needs the heavy rains of December and January to start the new growth, then it looks better. If you can take the high humidity and sleep at night when it is 27C 80% humidity and sandflies around then camping out is ok, you can catch some magnificent lightning displays from cloud to cloud.
If you are a bird watcher then a lot of the birds will be around the few perm waterholes, such as Fogg Dam, once the Wet comes then they move out to the flood plains.
Around Darwin there are a couple of 4Wd tracks in Litchfield, from near Wangi Falls to the Daly River Road, Parks close the track once it rains though, around Kakadu there is the Alligator Billabong (which means you have to cross a black soil plain) Jim Jim Falls will still be open, Graveside Gorge may be open, there are some places close to the road such as Edith falls to visi on the highway. Travel from Hayes Creek to Pine Creek via the old Highway, gravel but an interesting run.
An early cyclone can close areas, last year the Victoria river crossing was closed in December and has sometimes been closed for a month, and the roads behind you are also closed. Other years it is open all the Wet.

[camel_landy]

Think I need more than a month's trip :D:D:D:D

Let me put it this way...

We were there for 6mths, we covered 30,000KM and we didn't even touch WA!!

M