Tyre rotation

[WhiteD3]

A mate of mine has just replaced his D3's Wranglers after noticing the steel belt showing through on the inside 50mm of one rear tyre with the other almost the same. He'd got 38,000k from them so he wasn't too put off.

Begs the question though of regular wheel alignment and tyre rotation. Spoke to LR and they said that yes, the D3 will wear on the inside of all four tyres and that regular alignment and rotation was good practice.

Thoughts?
How regular?

I have 25,000 on my Wranglers and I can see that the rears are slightly more worn on the inside.

Cheers.

[100I]

Rotations won't stop the wear, what it will do is share it around & draw attention to a problem.
Would be interesting to see alignment specs, considering yours is on air too. With coil sprung IRS you could be a little more understanding.

[Utemad]

If it wears the inside of all 4 tyres then rotating them won't do any good as the inside will always be the inside.
Unless you turn the tyres around on the rims.

Interesting though as my Disco1 (totally different suspension of course) says to never rotate the tyres. Suits me as I'm a lazy bugger. Although my tyres are wearing even all round.

[300+]

There is a TSB for poor alignment which causes this symptom. My car is suffering and has worn the rear tyres to replacement levels in 19K. Much more wear and they will be illegal. Still working with Austral to get them to acknowledge that my VIN is within the effected range, my symptoms match the problem exactly and my tyres are trashed.

So far all they are telling me is that I can't ever expect more than 20K out of a set of 4 tyres with this vehicle and that my alignment problems are self inflicted due to poor road surfaces. The tyres are worm because I didn't correct teh alignment problem sooner. It has been Austral serviced since new, but apparently they are not responsible for telling me that I needed an alignment at the previous services. :angry:

Steve

[WhiteD3]

Steve, that's rubbish from Austral. I've done 25k and think I'll get at least another 10-15k. This mate of mine did 38k and would have done 50 without the inside scrubbing.

[CaverD3]

The wear is due to a bush settle issue. all wheels can go out. They do eventually settle and do not go out as easily.
LR now say to do four wheel alignment at each service. If you have had yours serviced at a dealers and they didn't do this you have a case. They contributed to tyre replacement on early models but have tightened up since.


New TSB issued yesterday - LA204-008 Discovery 3/LR3 - Uneven Tire Wear (unfortunately LRs US masters seems to have influenced the spelling of tyre) Vin range: 5A300259-6A403382

Summary:

A customer may report a concern of uneven tire wear.

Cause: Certain vehicles may experience a degree of 'bush settle' after the initial geometry setting following production (this has now been compensated for using calculated geometry settings introduced from the VIN above). This 'bush settle' may change the geometry settings to outside of normal tolerance and may increase tire wear. This issue is not experienced on all vehicles and the toe sensitivity may be attributed to other factors.

Action: Should it become necessary to adjust vehicle geometry due to specific complaints of tire wear, it should be set to the dimensions detailed in this bulletin. For all other cases requiring geometry setting, the dimensions in the workshop manual should be used.

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Rear tyre wear TSB (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic19585.html)

[geoffo]

my last td5 had done 93000k before i replaced the michelins (probably still had 20000+ in them). Is 40000ks all we get from the new tyres.

[WhiteD3]

The wear is due to a bush settle issue. all wheels can go out. They do eventually settle and do not go out as easily.
LR now say to do four wheel alignment at each service. If you have had yours serviced at a dealers and they didn't do this you have a case. They contributed to tyre replacement on early models but have tightened up since.


New TSB issued yesterday - LA204-008 Discovery 3/LR3 - Uneven Tire Wear (unfortunately LRs US masters seems to have influenced the spelling of tyre) Vin range: 5A300259-6A403382

Summary:

A customer may report a concern of uneven tire wear.

Cause: Certain vehicles may experience a degree of 'bush settle' after the initial geometry setting following production (this has now been compensated for using calculated geometry settings introduced from the VIN above). This 'bush settle' may change the geometry settings to outside of normal tolerance and may increase tire wear. This issue is not experienced on all vehicles and the toe sensitivity may be attributed to other factors.

Action: Should it become necessary to adjust vehicle geometry due to specific complaints of tire wear, it should be set to the dimensions detailed in this bulletin. For all other cases requiring geometry setting, the dimensions in the workshop manual should be used.

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Rear tyre wear TSB (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic19585.html)

Thanks. I'll "mention" this to LR tomorrow and see what they say.

[discomaniac]

my last td5 had done 93000k before i replaced the michelins (probably still had 20000+ in them). Is 40000ks all we get from the new tyres.
You better believe it :mad:
I got 98000km out of my Michelins on by D2 TD5.
Went through 2 sets of Wranglers in first 63000km on the D3. Now got General Grabbers AT2 with about 25000km on them, still look to have over half the tread left.

Discomaniac

[Disco3]

Thanks. I'll "mention" this to LR tomorrow and see what they say.

hey I'd be really interested to read how you got on with LR as I have the same problem - and my VIN is in the range.

[Jamo]

I had this problem 40,000km ago. LR reset the geometry under warranty. Make sure they put the car into the geomtery setting mode first or it's a waste of time. Also make sure it's done with a full tank.

[Desert Traveller]

Jamo
Only you need to fill your tanks and fit the spare tyres. Doesn't make a lot of difference for the rest of us.

[paulos00]

Hi all

Interesting thread, as mentioned I have only owned a D3 for a few weeks and driven only 3000Km, so it alarming when I took into our workshop and I see scuffing on the outer edges. Unfortunately the reason for the scuffing was the source of a good ribbing from the boys (who like to drop the slipper into the boss when they can :bat:) - tyre inflation, all tyres were around 32 PSI which for road driving in well under inflated for a 2.7T vehicle.

Inflation pressure should be at least 36-40PSI, (I wouldn't go much higher because body roll and ride might become problematic).

To also improve tyre wear its imperative that the wheels are rotated and balanced every at least 5000Km, tyre pressure checked every 2-3weeks and a wheel alignment carried out at least every 6 mths or so. I would also adjust the tyre pressure every other check (i.e. 36 for several weeks, then 40 for several weeks) this also helps even tyre wear.

A long term commercial customer of ours used to only get 30Km out of a set of tyres (lower quality mind you but it did mean 3 sets of tyres a year :eek:) last year he finally listened to us and followed the routine of every 3 weeks at the bowser check tyre inflation (with his own inflation gauge!), brought it back regularly for rotation and balance and had an alignment every 6 months min (note this was checked every 5K anyway whilst having the rotation). result just under 100K km out of the last set of tyres.

City driving is also a big contributor in outer wear to a tyre as well as towing heavy loads and it should be noted that if you are towing constantly the wheel alignment needs to be set to compensate for the extra load on the rear of the vehicle.

Cheers

Paul

[Jamo]

Jamo
Only you need to fill your tanks and fit the spare tyres. Doesn't make a lot of difference for the rest of us.

Actually DT, the TSB states that the tank must be full.

It also requires the battery to be put on charge - something they didn't do in my case and flattened it! Which is why I put in the bit about the fuel. if you don't do it yourself, it probably won't happen.

[RichardK]

I had the wear problem with the original tyres (Wranglers) but not as bad as some people have, I replaced the Wranglers with BFG AT's at 28000Kms and bought another as a spare tyre for my CSR trip at around 40000Kms and had a realingment done by the local Bridgestone dealer who said the alignment was quite a way out.

I have now done 130000 Kms still on the same 6 tyres and should get about another 20000.

[Bushwanderer]

Hi all

Interesting thread, as mentioned I have only owned a D3 for a few weeks and driven only 3000Km, so it alarming when I took into our workshop and I see scuffing on the outer edges. Unfortunately the reason for the scuffing was the source of a good ribbing from the boys (who like to drop the slipper into the boss when they can :bat:) - tyre inflation, all tyres were around 32 PSI which for road driving in well under inflated for a 2.7T vehicle.

Inflation pressure should be at least 36-40PSI, (I wouldn't go much higher because body roll and ride might become problematic).

To also improve tyre wear its imperative that the wheels are rotated and balanced every at least 5000Km, tyre pressure checked every 2-3weeks and a wheel alignment carried out at least every 6 mths or so. I would also adjust the tyre pressure every other check (i.e. 36 for several weeks, then 40 for several weeks) this also helps even tyre wear.

A long term commercial customer of ours used to only get 30Km out of a set of tyres (lower quality mind you but it did mean 3 sets of tyres a year :eek:) last year he finally listened to us and followed the routine of every 3 weeks at the bowser check tyre inflation (with his own inflation gauge!), brought it back regularly for rotation and balance and had an alignment every 6 months min (note this was checked every 5K anyway whilst having the rotation). result just under 100K km out of the last set of tyres.

City driving is also a big contributor in outer wear to a tyre as well as towing heavy loads and it should be noted that if you are towing constantly the wheel alignment needs to be set to compensate for the extra load on the rear of the vehicle.

Cheers

Paul

Hi Paul,
I agree that scuffing on the outer edge of the (front) tyres is probably due to under inflation.

With regard to the correct inflation pressures I have no comment, as it is dependent on the situation.

With regard to the alignment of the rear wheels if towing "constantly", I think that there is a difference here between coil-sprung & air bag-suspended vehicles. I believe that, with air bag suspension, the SLS will return the vehicle to the appropriate height (& therefore the wheels will be at the correct alignment). With coil sprung vehicles, operating without load-levelling hitches, the rear of the vehicle may sit low, therby affecting the alignment. In either case, with heavy loads, the tyre pressures should be increased.

Best Wishes,

[Cammac]

My 05 TDV6 wiped out a set of tires out in 25K even with the correct inflation and asking the dealer to rotate the wheels at the services. I then discovered that the dealer , Brisbane north side, could not do alignments in house and had to send out for the job to be done. So it wasn't routine and wasn't happening. I eventually got the revised factory settings and had the alignment when I replaced my first set of Goodyears. The second set are going to last more than 60k. Same car same daily route.
I'm surprised that the dealers hav not said anything about changing tire brands. When I wanted to put Coopers on they said any change from the type spec's would jeoparise my 3yr 100k drive train warranty. I confirmed that with LR Australia. At the time there was a shortage of Goodyears and had to wait 2 weeks and got to the stage of having bare wire exposed in the tread.

[paulos00]

Hi Cammac

I spoke with LR today regarding putting Coopers on the D3 instead of the GY's, LR's position is that the Cooper size 265 60/18 in the HT+ or XST are both fine (as the rolling diameter is within tolerances of 255 60/18) but you MUST have this tyre across all 4 wheels. This size / tyre would not jeopardise drive train warranty. The local dealer here also puts this tyre on the D3 if requested and stated that it would not jeopardise the warranty.


Cheers

Paul

[Gypsy_Pete]

Likewise, I got 118,000 kms out of Michelins on my TDi. When I sold my TD5 at 75,000 kms, its Michelins had lots of kms left in them.

The D3 TDV6 that I bought used with 58,000 kms on the clock was already on its second set of tyres. (Continentals).

I would suggest that part of the problem is the Goodyears that are fitted to D3s. Even on my family sedans, the standard Goodyears have only ever lasted 32,000 kms. I always replace them with better rubber.

Why do the D3s not come with Michelins as standard?

[Desert Traveller]

Pete,

Michelin doesn't make a suitable 18" tyre for the D3. In Europe I believe Michelin has a 100% road tyre in 255/60R18.
Long tyre mileage, does not make a good tyre. I use softer compound tyres for better grip and off road ability.

[CaverD3]

My wore out before 30,000kms :mad: Put on Cooper HT+s on as ATs ere not available at the time. 50,000kms now ans very lttle wear the Wranglers are crap.:angel:

[sheckster]

Thanks. I'll "mention" this to LR tomorrow and see what they say.

Just rang Austral (Valley) 'coz my tires are having same issue described here (wearing inside) and mentioned the TSB, they knew about the TSB and booked me in. Just a question though, should I get a wheel alingment after that?, if so, it is necessary to have 4 wheels aligned?

thanks

[CaverD3]

Wheel alignment should be part of the TSB work.

[Bushwanderer]

ALWAYS do a four-wheel alignment. Anything else is just a waste of time and money.

[rovers1952]

Seems I am one of those few paupers in this forum with a coiler and 17" rims. Bought vehicle new (build 12/06) and front OEM Wranglers displayed inside wear at 24,000 kms when I had an alignment done (at my cost) at the 24,000service. Have since got a total of 45,000 ks out of front ones but were well past it when removed. However, I am gentle when cornering. Rears were shredded on Gibb River Rd! I generally run 36-38 psi in front and 40-42 in rears. Now have 5 Cooper S/T's 245/70R/17 but only done about 1,000 ks on 'em. Will have alignment checked again at 48,000 service which is due now. For those of you who are interested, Coopers seem ok so far although noisy at suburban speeds and much quieter at freeway speeds.

[Bushwanderer]

I don't agree that it's because of paupacity. :mad:

I have coils on my D3, because that's the configuration that I wanted.:BigThumb:

Best Wishes,
Peter

[big guy]

Pete,

Michelin doesn't make a suitable 18" tyre for the D3. In Europe I believe Michelin has a 100% road tyre in 255/60R18.
Long tyre mileage, does not make a good tyre. I use softer compound tyres for better grip and off road ability.

I believe the Tyre that is being referred to is the Michelin XPC.
They are a M & S tyre and are the best thing since stamps and sliced bread.

I used them extensively and are a great all-rounder.
Most folks on here would agree especially those that actually used and or are using them.

I never got bogged or even had a puncture with them, very quiet and yes they are more a road tyre but that is where most of us spend most of the time.

The wear on the D3 is well documented now and the Wrangler tyres have not got a great reputation.
I guess they just won the tender with Land Rover.

The Michelin XPC's are no longer being made from my understanding, I have now changed to Coopers and must say, even in the storms we just had, I tried to get them to let go but they hung on and I now have full confidence in them.

Good wear too so far and for wheel alignments, the bigger the tyres the more balancing and alignments are needed.
Guess that just makes sense because of the rolling diameter of the wheels etc.

;);););)

[sheckster]

Wheel alignment should be part of the TSB work.

back from stealers, they didn't do TSB on my d3 'coz they said they only do it to cars that have had regular wheel alignment done and still experienced the problem. Had them do 4-wheel alignment, which they actually sub-con out anyway, oh well. Hope not too see stealers anytime soon.

[Peter_OZ]

There is a TSB for poor alignment which causes this symptom. My car is suffering and has worn the rear tyres to replacement levels in 19K. Much more wear and they will be illegal. Still working with Austral to get them to acknowledge that my VIN is within the effected range, my symptoms match the problem exactly and my tyres are trashed.

So far all they are telling me is that I can't ever expect more than 20K out of a set of 4 tyres with this vehicle and that my alignment problems are self inflicted due to poor road surfaces. The tyres are worm because I didn't correct teh alignment problem sooner. It has been Austral serviced since new, but apparently they are not responsible for telling me that I needed an alignment at the previous services. :angry:

Steve

On mine I have the fronts wearing badly on the inside and outside edges, rears seem ok which is probably me cornering too fast and scuffing the tyres!! I am however on my 2nd set of wranglers, 1st set was replaced by australas here in Brisbane under warranty at about 20,000km, I'm on 51,000 now and the tyres are near shot. Will sneak it through to it's next service at 60,000 then replace them.

I do have odd handling problems though. Bad understeer when going into a left hand bend, tyre pressures are ok. Front tyres are ok, one was the new spare and the other is about a 75% tyre, maybe that is the problem?

Reported the understeer to australs and like usual they don't want to know about it.

I also had all the vac pump and bits replaced for the brakes as they were spongy due to oil getting into the system. however even after all this work the brakes are still spongy and Australs refuse to even acknowledge there is a problem. Brakes feel like an old car that needs the shoes adjusted in!

cheers
Peter

[Peter_OZ]

My wore out before 30,000kms :mad: Put on Cooper HT+s on as ATs ere not available at the time. 50,000kms now ans very lttle wear the Wranglers are crap.:angel:


what is handling like with those? We rarely if ever get off road, tiny bit of beach is about it so road handling is vital for us.
cheers
Peter

[CaverD3]

Peter
Cooper HT+ are great long wearing and almost bullet proof compared to the Wranglers. I ahve had a few screws in them and did not leake even. Good onroad but quitew hard compound.

[scarry]

Just clocked 73k on BFG A/T,ah but it is a D2:D,& there's heaps of tread left..

Michy XPC were a very good tyre,got 90k out of them on D2,but did get a few punctures,excellent on the road & as good in the sand.They do get noisy at the end of their life,though.

[Peter_OZ]

just lodged a ticket with LR CC on the brakes and uneven tyre wear issue. Lets see what happens.

[Peter_OZ]

well I'm booked in for Monday to get brakes and tyre wear looked at. Lets hope they actually fix the problem this time and not just look at it and sweep under the carpet!