VM Diesel

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Just a question about the VM diesel once used in the Range Rover.

We hear all the banter anout all the different diesels the old Land Rover 2 1/4 diesels the 200Tdi, 300Td1 Td5, 4BD1, 4BD1-T, TdV6, TdV8 and even Detroit 3-53 and GMC jobs.

What I don't think I have ever seen are any threads on the italian VM.

Were they that bad or do then no longer exist having past their use by date?

Diana

[Taz]

I'm no expert on them, however I remember reading that they were derived from a boat motor and had 4 separate heads, one for each cylinder. I think jeep also used them. They reportedly suffered cronic head problems and were not as reliable as the Tdi's that replaced them after only a couple of years.

[loanrangie]

I'm no expert on them, however I remember reading that they were derived from a boat motor and had 4 separate heads, one for each cylinder. I think jeep also used them. They reportedly suffered cronic head problems and were not as reliable as the Tdi's that replaced them after only a couple of years.

Correct ,more trouble than they are worth. Apparently the jeep VM's were an improved version and 2.5 ltr instead of 2.4.

[rovercare]

Have a search, there has been a couple of threads asking about them, the answers lie within;)

[Bigbjorn]

Don't go there. Motore cane.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Don't go there. Motore cane.
Brian

Didn't even hazard a thought in that direction, t'was just that they were fitted as OEM and no one ever mentions them. I guess that would explain a lot to the less moronic than me!

Diana :D

[rangieman]

Brian

Didn't even hazard a thought in that direction, t'was just that they were fitted as OEM and no one ever mentions them. I guess that would explain a lot to the less moronic than me!

Diana :D
Dont ever think about it please;)

[Scouse]

All the trouble seems to be with the 2.4 VM that was sold here in the Range Rover. I started at JRA in 1989 & saw quite a few problems with the 2.4.

However, JRA had imported a 2.5 VM Range Rover. Either that or it was fitted locally. It was supposed to be here for evaluation but I have never heard of the 2.5 being sold in the UK.

This car was driven hard during it's time at JRA & performed faultlessly. The performance gain over the 2.4 was immense so it may have had a different turbo.

I'm sure it was still around when JRA folded in 1991 so there is at least one good VM fitted to a Range Rover somewhere.
I wonder where it is now......

[RonMcGr]

Just a question about the VM diesel once used in the Range Rover.

We hear all the banter anout all the different diesels the old Land Rover 2 1/4 diesels the 200Tdi, 300Td1 Td5, 4BD1, 4BD1-T, TdV6, TdV8 and even Detroit 3-53 and GMC jobs.

What I don't think I have ever seen are any threads on the italian VM.

Were they that bad or do then no longer exist having past their use by date?

Diana

Introduced in 1986 - 1994
ENGINE
Manufactured by VM DIESEL of Italy. 2392 cc, 4 cylinder, borexstroke-92x90 mm
OHV, 2 valves per cylinder, compression ratio 22:1
Indirect injection with KKK - K3 turbo charger with intercooler. Boost pressure 12.0 psi.
Max. power: 112 bhp @ 4200 rpm
Max. torque : 183 lb.ft. @ 2400 rpm

TRANSMISSION
5 speed manual
4 speed auto box optional

PERFORMANCE(with 5 speeder)
max speed: 93 mph@ 3700 rpm
0-60 mph: 16.5 sec
weight: 4440 lbs
fuel cons: 21.4 mpg

The VM Diesel Specialist (http://ccgi.vmspecialists.plus.com/release/home.php?id=236225088edcb048365e488f597)

C838 WWK Camel Trophy Range Rover (http://www.landrovercentre.com/Interesting_vehicles/C838WWK_camel_trophy_range_rover.htm)

Pictures of the engine:
ETC9091N 2.4L 4 CYL VM DIESEL ENGINE ASSY | Range Rover Classic 1986-1991: Major Units | shop | www.lrseries.com | L. R. Series (http://www.lrseries.com/shop/product/listing/15500/3602/1/ETC9091N-2-4L-4-CYL-VM-DIESEL-ENGINE-ASSY.html)

[rrturboD]

My RR originally had a VM, now replaced with Tdi300.....
still got the old motor, it had been doing a grand job running a 3" water pump, until the pump gave up..... so good for VM spares

While I was running the motor in RR (2 years) I found the following Yahoo group had a number of expert members:

VM-dieselengine-group : VM diesel engine group (http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/VM-dieselengine-group/)

[langy]

There is a half burnt jeep with a VM diesel at Pick and Payless Blacktown, if you want to look at it - the engine is in half decent condition,but the wiring and ECU are gone.

[maca]

I have a RRC with a 2.4 VM diesel in it (and 4 spare motors), they are excellent little motors but are not really reliable.
All the reliability issues relate to overheating the heads, incorrect installation of the heads, or poor maintenance (re-tension those head bolts).

So yes they are still around, not many of them, but they are defiantly still there.

The search is not turning up many related threads, one such thread started by me is:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/51087-2-4-vm-diesel.html

[TMA]

Well may be iam the mug i just brought a vm powered rangie did not know all the bad stuff be fore purchase ,do now does run but has no power and blowing white smoke all the heads done good cooling system what you recon turbo gone any one got one

[big guy]

My best mate bought a VM RRC.
What a mistake.
He spend money and time but to no avail.
Now doing an Isuzu conversion and he can't be happier.


VM did stationary and boat motors, the individual heads were/are great motors, they just did not work out for the RRC.

I do believe VM is doing new diesel motors for holden now. Can't wait to see what happens there.

Good luck for those of you still daring to devy the odds.:)

[d@rk51d3]

I do believe VM is doing new diesel motors for holden now. Can't wait to see what happens there.



Probably just a fresh coat of engine enamel. :D

[rangieman]

[



I do believe VM is doing new diesel motors for holden now. Can't wait to see what happens there.


Mmmm try chev not holden;)

[isuzurover]

[



I do believe VM is doing new diesel motors for holden now. Can't wait to see what happens there.


Mmmm try chev not holden;)

No, holden as well:


GM to buy 50% of VM Motori; jointly develops new 2.9 liter turbodiesel V6
GM to buy 50% of VM Motori; jointly develops new 2.9 liter turbodiesel V6 (http://paultan.org/2007/07/27/gm-to-buy-50-of-vm-motori-jointly-develops-new-29-liter-turbodiesel-v6/)



Holden to introduce diesel power to the Commodore range

VE Commodore to include V6 diesel option | Reviews | Prices | Australian specifications (http://www.themotorreport.com.au/3587/holden-to-introduce-diesel-power-to-the-commodore-range)


However it has been canned by GM by the looks:


GM and VM Motori 2.9 V6 diesel no longer on hold – now cancelled

by Swade on March 13, 2009

I reported last night that the 2.9l V6 diesel being developed by VM Motori and to be used in the Saab 9-4x and 2010 Saab 9-5 had been paced on hold due to issues at the coalface in Italy.
I’ve had a note passed on to me by my mates at Auto Motor and Sport, saying that the engine program is now cancelled. This was confirmed to them via email from Saab Sweden.

GM has taken the decision to cancel the 2.9 V6 Diesel engine program which is a result of current market conditions and the consequent financial concerns. In December 2008, GM confirmed the engine would be delayed approximately 12 months. However, the final decision has been made to cancel the engine program.

Saab also emphasised that they have other diesel options for the Saab 9-4x and Saab 9-5, without stating what those options were.
Saab’s current diesel engines are great performers and when tweaked a little by Saab’s official tuners, Hirsch, they get even better. The loss of the V6 may be felt at the upper end of the new Saab 9-5’s market, however.
Do Saab have another diesel option up their sleeve? We’ll have to wait and see, I guess
GM and VM Motori 2.9 V6 diesel no longer on hold – now cancelled (http://www.saabsunited.com/2009/03/gm-and-vm-motori-29-v6-diesel-no-longer-on-hold-now-cancelled.html)

Every VM rangie I have seen has had the motor pulled and swapped for something else...

[Rangier Rover]

Ew, shudder:blink::blink:
Some people never learn:no2:
There is an old purist up this way who swears by his VM Rangie. I'd hate to count what its costed him to keep it running. He had to buy a second ride for when the VM is off the road:confused:
Some how he seems to still source the parts for it.

Funny old bloke, he wont tell me where he gets his stuff from:(

[TMA]

Hello all anyone no what the headbolt torque settings are dont worry just a patch up till i can afford a 300

[87County]

I'm no expert on them, however I remember reading that they were derived from a boat motor ...............

and I heard that they were mostly only suitable to be used as a boat anchor ! :o

btw... other people more expert than me have told me that the boat motor variants were actually quite good, ie., operated at a constant rpm setting with a constant flow of cooling liquid they were a reliable unit...

[PhilipA]

Hello all anyone no what the headbolt torque settings are dont worry just a patch up till i can afford a 300

I don't know much about them but I DO know that they have 1 use only stretch bolts that have to be done up to an angle setting not torque.

Regards Philip A

[INter674]

I once saw an A series BMC 4cyl engine sitting in an engine repair shop that looked a bit odd...turns out it was a VM diesel basically made from an A series engine with a VM head on it plus other bits and pieces to make it work. The owner of the shop said it was out of a boat and was a total POS,. like all VM engines he reckoned:o

[inbetweendiesels]

Good evening...now for a good story....I owned a RRC Turbo D which was perfect. I never,ever had any problems with the motor, gearbox et cetera from when I bought it at 3 years old until when I sold it when it was 10 years old. I have regretted selling it every month. I bought a V8 RRC Vogue and sold it promptly after it cost me in Petrol. The diesel ran from Melbourne to Sydney on a tank and would happily cruise at 140 KPH which was its top speed as well. The last couple of services at $5,000 each broke my wifes spirit and she sold it. I am now trying to buy a L322 diesel, so I hope it will be as good.
Regards,
Bill.

[VladTepes]

I heard VM stood for Very Mundane.

[big guy]

Vancini and Martelli were the two fellas that started VM diesels, they were leaders in their field of motors and in particular stationary motors.
Their factory was in same region as Ferrari and lambo etc.
They wre the days of engineering and experimentation. Too bad they never quite got it right for the Rangie as the motor itself was a great idea apparently, individual heads etc.;)

[101RRS]

But was the problem with VM or Land Rover for nselecting an engine that was most unsuitable for motor vehicle use but was designed and used successfully for other purposes.

Garry

[incisor]

VM's have a very good name in the marine market so it sounds like LR picked the wrong unit for the job

[JohnF]

we are considering buying one--should we?

[BigJon]

I would have one... But I would also look at retro fitting a 300Tdi engine.

[big guy]

we are considering buying one--should we?

Only if changing motor as said above.
Oarts are very few. Mechanics to work on them fewer and no troubles are unheard of.
Run or use it as a platform for a motor change.

[PhilipA]

Just to give you some history.
The VM engine family was a modular family which came in
AFAIR 3 , 4, 5, and 6 cylinder.
BMW used both the 5 and 6 3 litres in the sterndrives which they or should I say I sold from about 1980 on.
I can recall my tech guy telling me he had pulled a new one apart and the crank journals were "octagonal". We had BIG problems with owners (usually Abalone fishermen) running full pelt then hot shutting down and coking the turbo.
The 2.4 VM won world diesel speed records and Land Rover anodised the heads for reliablity.
It gained a reputation for overheating which remains to this day.
There was a 2.5 version sold in the UK just prior to 200Tdi in RRC.
AFAIK the 2.5 is the same motor as in the old Cherokee which also had overheating problems. Hmm funny that. My guess is that a 2.5 Cherokee motor should bolt in.

There is now a 2.7? version with one head and overhead cams in the new shape Cherokee and Wrangler.
So the good news is that you should be able to get Jeep parts and I understand the bad news is that parts are expensive.

Graeme Cooper once told me long ago that the VMs were not too bad and actually had better torque than a 200/300Tdi. He was /is quite experienced in them. One person in our club had one and blew the head gaskets. They were fixed OK.

I tend to think one of the problems was that back then nobody was experienced with the angle torque bolts. I have read on the Jeep forum that you need a jig to refit the heads and the gaskets will fail unless a special tightening sequence is followed across the four heads.
Regards Philip A