D3 / RR UK-lpg link.

[Laurie]

Good looking conversions "if only" we had a choice here !! :mad:


http://www.gascarco.com/gallery/Land_Rover_Discovery_3_LPG_conversions

other LR conversions can be seen in the photo gallery.

[WhiteD3]

Where do you put the spare tyre?

[Bushwanderer]

Where it should be - on a rear wheel carrier.:)

The underfloor arrangement for the spare wheel is unsuitable for much off-road work.:(

Best Wishes,

[PCH]

That LPG tank arrangement at the back makes your departure angle look pretty poor.

Chris

[johnc18]

White D3
You'd put it where they put the spare wheel in Falcon wagons and Territories, vertically in the luggage (boot) area.

Laurie
You do have a choice - if the Pommies can convert a Disco to LPG so can we.
Anything they can do, we can do better!

For any one who's getting worried about the price of petrol, and who'd like to convert to LPG, a bit of info-
The first LPG systems (which unfortunately are still around) were like the old carbys on petrol engines, and you are typically looking at using 30% more LPG than petrol. And a noticeable loss of power.
The second generation is a gas injection system (similar to a petrol injection system) and typically uses about 15% more LPG than petrol. Also with less power.
The third generation uses injected liquid LPG, and typically (so I believe) has only a 5% loss of power and fuel economy.
Why do I say "I believe?"
Well, the old "carby" systems have been around since Adam was a pup, and the gas injection systems have been around here for about two years.
The liquid injection system is only new here.
The pommies and europeans have had it for a few years, but because of patent disputes, ( It's an Australian invention-I'll give you the history if you're really interested ) it's only now coming to Australia.
A company is importing the gear and training selected installers,( eight at the moment), but they won't have supplies until July.
They will be concentrating on R&d/testing/certifying/and making kits initially for there obvious main market - Falcon and Holden.
After that other brands.
I have asked for Power and Torque curves for their system, but so far no luck, I'll try again.
At some time or other, I have come across a pommie company doing LPG on Range Rovers using the same gear. I'll chase it up.
If any of you guys out there are interested in converting to LPG, then liquid LPG is the way to go. However I would not consider doing it until they have have "bedded down" the major market (Falcon/Holden), and sorted out any problems there.
Then they can have alook at other brands. Kits should be available for british/ european brands, but they'll concentrate on Holden/Falcon first.
The old "carby" systems are about $2,500
The gas injection systems about $3,500-$4000
The liquid injection systems about $4,500
The Govt rebate is $2000
A patricular point to notice about this especially with Discos ( and their complex/tempermental electronics) is that the gas injection systems need another ECU to "talk" to the onboard computer.
The liquid injection doesn't need any more electronics. It just uses the on board engine managment system.
Cheers John
PS As you can see by the time of this message, it'd 1am.
As I sometimes do, I jump on the computer after coming home after I've been out drinkind with mates.
So if you think I babble to much, say so, and In future I'll go straight to bed!

[sclarke]

The prices you quote are PRE Grant rebate....

the older style LPG systems are still being quoted at $4500 for a Disco....

and the LPG injected are over $6k

My brother just had LPG injection put on his Shogun and its great... the power drop is nearly nothing and its instant.... no lag between Gas and LPG

[WhiteD3]

Where it should be - on a rear wheel carrier.:),

Makes for an expensive conversion!

[johnc18]

Yes, your right, by all accounts the prices did rise when the subsidy came in.
But I think those prices are reasonably current, and I did say "about".
Also I will stand corrected in as much as I was giving the "about" prices for Fords and Holdens. They would possibly charge more for a Disco.

In regard to the Liquid Injection, the head engineer for the Aust distributors of the Liquid Injection system said that the Recommended Retail Price for their system would be $4,500.
A couple of the Ford guys have tried to book their cars with the selected installers for July and been given quotes up to $500 above that figure. I think they've complained to the distributor about being ripped off, so I would think that those installers will be told to charge the RRP.The distributor has said that they are only going to supply selected installers so that they can control things like quality etc, so that gives them a stick to wave.
So as I said above, better to give it six months for the dust to settle.
Cheers John

[Bushwanderer]

Makes for an expensive conversion!

Only if you are shifting the wheel in order to fit the LPG tank. I'll be shifting the wheel because I think that it's better. (& LR tell us to remove the spare wheel before going off-road:o).

Best Wishes,

[WhiteD3]

Does my bum look big in this?


The way my fuel bill is going I'm keener on this than what I was but this would still cramp my style I think...

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/8342/aahsizedss8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/8342/aahsizedss8.cb209f9c9c.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=186&i=aahsizedss8.jpg)

But this was a UK site. Anyone know if there's D3 V6 conversion available in Oz?

[WhiteD3]

Anyone know if there's D3 V6 conversion available in Oz?

I did an email-a-round (electronic version of a ring-a-round), all replied:), no luck:(. Couldn't find anyone offering a conversion.

[Laurie]

Found this on the UK Disco 3 site; would like to hear from others about this regarding the doughnut lpg tank. !!!!!!!!!!

"No No! Don't even consider it, the spare forms part of the crash safety system. Replacing it with an LPG tank would not be a good idea. Replacing one of the rear seats is a far better alternative"

The rear seat replacement tank is 120 litres (might be ideal for "S" owners)

[johnc18]

Laurie
As you possibly know, I don't own a D3 yet,so I'm still a bit unsure about some things.
Could you expand on what you mean by -
"Replacing one of the rear seats is a far better alternative
The rear seat replacement tank is 120 litres (might be ideal for "S" owners)"

White D3
The prices I said earlier were for Holdens and Falcons. I guess D3s would be dearer, but in particular,since this latest rounds of petrol prices, I believe the demand for LPG conversions has increased even more. Result even higher prices !
Apart from that, you might find ( even if there is a kit in Australia ) that installers might be fobbing you off because they don't want to do it.
From their point of view, why do a potentially difficult Disco, when they have 100 Holden and Falcon owners at their door.
John

[WhiteD3]

The prices I said earlier were for Holdens and Falcons. I guess D3s would be dearer, but in particular,since this latest rounds of petrol prices, I believe the demand for LPG conversions has increased even more. Result even higher prices !
Apart from that, you might find ( even if there is a kit in Australia ) that installers might be fobbing you off because they don't want to do it.
From their point of view, why do a potentially difficult Disco, when they have 100 Holden and Falcon owners at their door.
John

Well, yes, maybe:confused:. And I hate to say it, but there's nothing flash about the D3 V6. It's a re-tuned 4.0 litre unit found in a million+ Fords around the world and has been around for years in various iterations. Can it be that different from a Falcon motor?

[Laurie]

John
Apparently the spare tyre well with the tyre in place is essential for maximum protection in a event of a rear end collision. In most "S" models the rear 7 seat is missing,so those "S" users won't notice any seating decrease.
I haven't got a D3 yet !!! still have my Td5. My heart says stay with diesel ,but the head says petrol hence my dilemma, thats why I'm looking at all options. If diesel continues at the present price it will be hard to go past petrol. Diesel in Canberra has been up to 30 cents a litre dearer lately; I could run the beautiful V8 for same outlay and if gas was an option ???? Second hand V8's will dry up quickly with there lower resale value at the moment, "IF" lpg becomes available.,

[Chilly]

A question for those who know.

Can you fit these systems yourself? E.g. Is it legal to do so and if so what if anything do you have to do to be legal?

[Bushwanderer]

The short answer is yes/no.:(

The installation has to be approved by a licenced installer. Therefore, the best way for them to make sure is to install it themselves.

On the other hand, if you know a tame licenced installer... :)

Best Wishes,

[djhampson]

Found this on the UK Disco 3 site; would like to hear from others about this regarding the doughnut lpg tank. !!!!!!!!!!

"No No! Don't even consider it, the spare forms part of the crash safety system. Replacing it with an LPG tank would not be a good idea. Replacing one of the rear seats is a far better alternative"

The rear seat replacement tank is 120 litres (might be ideal for "S" owners)

I'd like to see exactly how the spare tyre is part of the crash safety system? Its only attached by a single wire after all?

[johnc18]

White D3
Yes I agree with you there, but I was thinking mainly in terms of the D3s electronics. As I understand it, these gas injection systems "piggy-back" their ECU on to the cars ECU. Any hiccups there on Falcons or Holdens would already been known and sorted. A new car may have unknowns. Most people prefer an easy life.
If you like, I'll ask if there is a kit.
Do you still live on the Gold Coast ?

Chilly
Bushwanderer nailed it. I have a friend who fitted his own LPG system.However, he's an ex mechanic with lots of contacts in the game, and did it via his mates ( lic installer) advice, and then got him to sign off on it. My thinking at the moment is to buy a V8 (next year) and convert it to gas. If there's no kit for the V8, then I'd look at importing one from England, and combine it with the aluminium modular tank.Then persuade some understanding installer to fit it. Note though, there's all sorts of traps for the unwary. Australian ADR's differ to other countries. eg The torroidal tank in the photo looks like its hard up against the rear bumper bar. That would make it illegal here. So you'd want to make sure of what you are doing.

Laurie
Thanks for clarifying the "rear seat replacement tank".
If your heart says diesel, have a look at the "gas injection on diesel" thread and look at the sites I've posted there. If you believe their dyno figures, big increases in power, torque, and economy.

Cheers John

[Laurie]

I was speaking to Range Rover Automotive today; they are converting the first D3 V8 at the moment, it will then have to go to Sydney for certification. It will retain original fuel tank, so either a external wheel carrier has to be used, or carry some cans of tyre puncture repair :angel:. Twin 35ltr tanks mounted underneath. Cost is to be around $6000 + tyre carrier !!
They expect to have it for demo etc in about 5-6 weeks.:D:D:D
Laurie

[ariddell]

I was getting quoted around the $6000 mark to have lpg fitted to my L322 Range Rover - that was for the Prinz system that has been used well on them in Europe. Presume the same system would likely work well on the D3 too.

No option for a rear wheel carrier on the L322 though so would mean losing the spare wheel and at that price it would take a very very very very long time for any cost benefit to become apparent so really isn't worth it.