Wheel spacers for FCs

[brookvale]

Greetings from the East Island.

What's the received wisdom on installing 25mm (30mm?) wheel spacers on an FC (or any LR for that matter)?

Cheapish option to keep standard rims...
Improved track width (is this really a good thing?)
Loss of turning circle?
Too much strain on steering/axles/swivels?
Improved or reduced steering load/action?

There's a set of 24mm spacers for sale at NZ$550 at the moment (reduced - hah!) from $650.

Comments?
Neil - 65 IIA FC

[Bigbjorn]

Unless fitted as original equipment, their use is forbidden in Australia.

[JDNSW]

As Brian says they are illegal in Australia, but you need to investigate their legality in NZ.

Improved track on a 2a FC is probably an advantage (one of the differences with the 2b), but steering would be heavier, and it increases the load on the wheel bearings, swivels, axle housing, steering gear - all of which except for the bearings, were upgraded on the 2b.

I would not consider it. There are probably good reasons why wheel spacers are strictly illegal in Australia, most likely because of poor quality ones resulting in failures. They are a very highly stressed part, which is critical to control - are you certain they are up to it? (and the loads on the wheels are quite a lot higher on the FC than on bonneted Landrovers that they were presumably designed for)

John

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Greetings from the East Island.

What's the received wisdom on installing 25mm (30mm?) wheel spacers on an FC (or any LR for that matter)?

Cheapish option to keep standard rims...
Improved track width (is this really a good thing?)
Loss of turning circle?
Too much strain on steering/axles/swivels?
Improved or reduced steering load/action?

There's a set of 24mm spacers for sale at NZ$550 at the moment (reduced - hah!) from $650.

Comments?
Neil - 65 IIA FC

Welcome to the AULRO Neil

Don't pay too much attention to Brian, :D :D he doesn't fully understand the notion of the Eastern Isle. He's probably thinking Russell Island, Stradbroke Island or Bribie Island. ;) (But his Land Rover knowledge is usually good!)

Wheel spacers are illegal in Australia, but wheel adapters are apparently legal. (but don't quote me on that.) The adapter being bolted onto the hub then the rim bolting onto the adapter with a different set of studs and nuts.

You would have to check the various regs in Kiwiland. But the adapters are a much safer device.

Now to the issue, the original rims on your SIIa FC and the suffix A SIIB's are supposed to have a neutral offset. That is the projected line of the Kingpin inclination (a line running through the centre of the top and bottom swivel pin bearings) runs through the centrepoint of the tread on the road. This is the point where the steering geometry is correct and resistance least.

That said, the SIIB suffix B and later rims (569203) were manufactured with about a 20mm positive offset (widening the track) to correct a clearance issue with snow chains on the rear spring hangers. Your using the wheel adapters would achieve the same effect although a bit more positive offset.

Yes a wider track should make the vehicle a little more stable, although other devices like anti sway bars similar to those on the SIIB front axle would also help. If anything you should be able to decrease the turning circle by adjusting the stops. Although this can put more stress on the front axle spicer joints on full lock.

The question is, would you be able to find a set of 569203 rims for NZ$550 and avoid the need for the adapters? Possibly.

What do others think?

Diana

P.S. Hows that new 3.9 V8 going?

[brookvale]

good stuff guys - it's what I need to hear.

I should have said 'adapters' and not spacers.
These things are either alloy or billet steel rings - bolt on and then bolt on wheels to the new studs
advert here (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=159865878)

All up I should probably leave well alone. The point about the loads on those front wheels is taken... my steering is heavy enough as it is

The new 3.9? - brilliant! still sucks lots of petrol though... Interesting that a mate on the 1000 mile run to LR60th event in his StageI got slightly better mpg than me - on 95 octane. But.. FAB is way heavier than his truck so we were about quits and I was on 91.

I still have to tinker with the throttle lever bell-cranks on the manifold - the action is too stiff and fast for decent control off-road.

Re: steering - New thread option - how to refurbish a steering relay?
cheers
Neil

[Bigbjorn]

Welcome to the AULRO Neil

Don't pay too much attention to Brian, :D :D he doesn't fully understand the notion of the Eastern Isle. He's probably thinking Russell Island, Stradbroke Island or Bribie Island. ;) (But his Land Rover knowledge is usually good!)

Wheel spacers are illegal in Australia, but wheel adapters are apparently legal. (but don't quote me on that.) The adapter being bolted onto the hub then the rim bolting onto the adapter with a different set of studs and nuts.




Diana, I am aware he is from that small group of islands where they speak funny, the eastern suburbs of Tasmania, where they have a national leader called Hullen.

And Qld. Transport say adaptors and spacers are the same thing in their view and illegal unless original equipment.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Diana, I am aware he is from that small group of islands where they speak funny, the eastern suburbs of Tasmania, where they have a national leader called Hullen.

And Qld. Transport say adaptors and spacers are the same thing in their view and illegal unless original equipment.
Yeh I've always thought those people are a bit unusual - now I know they're East Tasmanians it makes sense! :D :D :D

About the spacers/adapters. That was what I always thought, until recently at a friends workshop. (His brother-in-law brings in Equipe accessories.) When I saw a set of adapters on the bench I suggested they were illegal. He suggested I was wrong and that only the "spacers" are illegal. Hence my comment not to quote me.

I guess it would be a case of check with the registering authority before you buy or do the safe option use the standard rims off the later model (569203).

Diana

[taff]

i have a set (30mm) on my missus disco and have ordered another set for my county.

they are the duck's nut's and whilst being illegal to have them on, on the road who's going to know.
if you have an accident just whip them off before the insurance assesor see's the car as your normal pc plod isn't going to notice them on anyway.
there's plenty of car's driving around with illegal mod's much more serious than a set of spacers
they give you back your turning circle and a bit more with bigger tyres, more articulation, they give the car a better stance and more stability on cornering.
as for stresses and strains - no more than a set of 35's - probably do wheel bearings more often, but won't do them at a rate quicker than you'd notice, anyhow -big deal they're not that expensive anyway and just because they are illegal in oz doesn't make them dangerous as they are not illiegal in other countries
if your happy with the price i say go for it - once on you'll never want to drive again without them
you can get them from the u.k. for about $300AU landed

jason

[Lotz-A-Landies]

...as for stresses and strains - no more than a set of 35's -...

... jason
Jason

Just a note on Land Rover Forward Controls like Brookvale's, they already run 9.00 16 bias ply (= 255/100 R 16) which is almost a 36" with a 9.00" width and no power steering.

Diana

[brookvale]

Just searched and found local NZ regs say:
Fitting of or modification to: LVV certification is not required provided that:
Aftermarket wheel fitments • the wheels:
– are a known and reputable brand non-OE item, and
– would be considered an appropriate fitment for the vehicle type by the wheel manufacturer, and
– are not modified, and
– spacers or adaptors are not fitted.

Certification cost anywhere from $450 upwards depending on the modifications.

I'll not muck around - I'll stick with vanilla LR rims...

Neil

[taff]

hi diana, i know this thread is about forward controls but i was refering to the stresses placed on my disco where no more than putting 35's on it.(the disco)

sorry for the confusion - i should have made my statement clearer.

jason

[Lotz-A-Landies]

hi diana, i know this thread is about forward controls but i was refering to the stresses placed on my disco where no more than putting 35's on it.(the disco)

sorry for the confusion - i should have made my statement clearer.

jasonThanks Jason

I know that I get quite confused at times trying to work out the comparitive sizes of all the various tyres and their aspect ratios then converting from Metric to Imperial and then US.

It is also somewhat true that a lot of people talk about 35" tyres being big are unaware that the original tyre on some of the earlier Land Rovers were even bigger than 35" as standard. (I'm talking about the 3 forward control models and the 1 Ton model not sold in Australia.)

Not knowing if this was the case with your post, and thoughts were to clarify any misunderstandings.


Just searched and found local NZ regs say:
Fitting of or modification to: LVV certification is not required provided that:
Aftermarket wheel fitments • the wheels:
– are a known and reputable brand non-OE item, and
– would be considered an appropriate fitment for the vehicle type by the wheel manufacturer, and
– are not modified, and
– spacers or adaptors are not fitted.

Certification cost anywhere from $450 upwards depending on the modifications.

I'll not muck around - I'll stick with vanilla LR rims...

Neil That's bad luck about the adapters, however you would still be permitted to fit the strawberry LR rims off the late 2Bs without coming into conflict with the authorities. Because that is the part specified for all Series Forward Controls in the 1972 parts catalogue.

Diana

[brookvale]

2B rims? - sure thing - if only they were just lying around in all the shops here... :o
But then I could sneakily get my wheel repairer to shift the centres on mine... :angel:

[Lotz-A-Landies]

2B rims? - sure thing - if only they were just lying around in all the shops here... :o
The sad thing is the cost of shipping. John Craddock and Dunsfold's in the UK have had some NOS ones lately and in the 1970's and '80s there were lots available as spares out of the Land Rover Australia.

These days, you find them on all sorts of Land Rovers over here. I got three off a Defender owner and another three and a couple of pretend ones off a regular Series owner, so you just have to keep your eyes peeled and know what you are looking for. If you get your ones re-set then on the back side, the centre disk if moved so that there is a little lip of about 1/4".

The other option is to have the centres on Series I Discovery (7") rims reversed. If you look at the pic below, this is my friend Ken's 6 X 6 FC project and the front rim is a standard Disco rim and the rear one is a centre reversed Disco rim. They only cost about $50 each to have done.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/265.jpg

The big problem is the valve stem is then on the inside, however if you have long stem truck valves fitted, they can poke through one of the slots in the rim.

Diana

[brookvale]

Ken's truck - nice job! Will both rears be powered ?

There just happens to be 4 Disco wheels for sale $100. I'll put in a bid!

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Ken's truck - nice job! Will both rears be powered ?

There just happens to be 4 Disco wheels for sale $100. I'll put in a bid!
Neil

Ken's has had a history similar to yours, SIIA powered by 3.5 V8 and LT95.

With the new project, he has changed all the axles to the wider track of the Range Rover and 3.54 diffs. The suspension is Range Rover coils and radius arms etc.

Yes it will be powered on all axles. The 3rd axle was cut inside of the spring mounts, the diff moved to the LHS and the pinion inclined slightly, the drive to the third axle comes from the rear PTO outlet using the 6X6 drive from an Australian Army Perenty 6X6 via a split prop shaft with a bearing mounted on the chassis and spicer joint above the 2nd axle.

It will be a great vehicle when completed, I can't wait to see it!

Diana

[Bigbjorn]

What will the rear suspension be? Hopefully something smarter and more articulate than a four spring.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Brian

Haven't seen it IRL yet, so maybe one of our Victorian friends who may have seen it can do the update on those finer points!

Diana