Rebuild D1 or Purchase D2

[4wd4fun]

Hi every One this has probable been asked before but I am trying to decide if I should rebuild my TDI d1 or Purchase a good condition D2 and do a few simple Mods. My thoughts at this stage are as follows.
My D1
Have Gearbox & Trf case rebuilt (sincro on second has been playing up for 100000km),Clutch while out. New Disc rotors and pads and while there wheel bearinngs. Check all bushes and other drive components and replace as required.
New springs 2"lift, shocks. Make and fit Rock sliders.
Possible ARB airlocker.(Motor is fine and local LR dealer has stated she is a good motor should do 400000km no probs (regular services and belt changes log booked)
Currently has 265000. No electrical or other problems since purchased over 8 years ago.
Op 2/
D2 Td5 5 speed manual (I Like manuals for how I use the vehicle and have had Auto rovers)
Find 2003-4 coil sprung TD5 Manual app 100000km, fit 2" lift coils and shocks and when required change Tyres to off road style and largest legal size in QLD. and then test and see what needs to be done.
Concerns TD5 reliability and problems eg/ Three amigos, head gaskets,turbo, and all electrical gremlins that are talked about with car losing power ect and any other issues that happen with the TD5. I have not had any problems other then age and KM with my TDI so and at a lost as this is the longest i have ever kept a car and am finding it hard to change. .:confused::confused::confused::confused:

[Pedro_The_Swift]

You've probably spent more than the D1 would bring,,

why sell?

its a known quantity,, upgrade it as required!

some people upgrade to a D2 and not enjoy it,,

The D2 is a more service intense model,,,(was that nice?:p)

The D1 is still an awesome machine on and off road.

[V8Landy]

You've probably spent more than the D1 would bring,,

why sell?

its a known quantity,, upgrade it as required!

some people upgrade to a D2 and not enjoy it,,

The D2 is a more service intense model,,,(was that nice?:p)

The D1 is still an awesome machine on and off road.

X 2

[Romulus]

I would stick with your D1. You know the car inside out, its been reliable and good to you.
Do the mods you're planning and you'll have a Disco that'll last you for many more years to come not to mention a bit of an off road beasty! ;)
I recently went back to owning Disco after 3 years of 'non Disco'.
I had a good chance of picking up a good 2000 D2 V8i at a very good price, but you know, I ended up getting a low K '96 V8i and I am VERY VERY happy with it.

[Gullible]

I disagree,
Scrap the D1, strip it down and sell the parts on eBay.

I'm after the Cruise Control brain and some side steps. :p

[81stubee]

I went through this a while ago.

Disco Had 240k on the clock, everything was a known quantity, wanted to keep, but our needs had changed. In the end I got my long wanted P38, but if not for a few other constraints would've got a D2.

Depends what you need in the car?

If as an OffRoad tourer i would probably stick with the D1. I loved the fact that you could start a tdi in the middle of knowhere, even if all the elec's are fried.

If you need more space the D2 would be the go. But I can't really quantify the D2 as i've never had one. I would expect it to be a bit quieter on the road too, but as already said more maintenance intensive.

Stu

[Romulus]

I disagree,
Scrap the D1, strip it down and sell the parts on eBay.

I'm after the Cruise Control brain and some side steps. :p

have a look on eBay for LR cruise control ECU, I know of one ex UK :)

[Slunnie]

At the end of the day you will still have an old 4WD that has a lot of km's on it. Yeah ok, the luddite love them, but there is a better best out there when you step into a D2. LR dont spend a lot of time and money redesigning something to not be better than the previous product and it would be stupid for anybody to insinuate that. WE still dont really hear about rusting D2's in Australia either, unlike the D1's.

WRT probs...

The TD5 is reliable. I think you will find that despite what you read on here that they are a very reliable engine and that engine breakdowns are usually from a previous problem. They also have been designed to last significantly longer than the Tdi and there is no reason out there to not believe this.

3 amigos... just run pads that dont produce noise. eg OE or EBC and the 3 amigos wont be an issue.

Turbos dont really give problems. Its very rare to damage one and I would expect no more susceptable than any other turbo out there. They are a good Garrett unit.

Head gaskets are the result of an overheating. Fit a coolant level alarm and its not an issue after this. This is probably no different to any engine with an alloy head anyway.

Electrical gremlins that lose power is the injector loom. These are like the TD5's version of the Tdi's timing belt. The difference is that it doesnt damage the engine if there is a problem unlike a failed timing belt, and you can still drive it home. Its not a big issue and properly serviced Discos will have this found before it becomes a problem anyway.

Dont sweat about finding it hard to change, you will forget the D1 after stepping into a D2 and into a newer 4WD. A test drive will answer your questions.

[martinozcmax]

I'm not sure what I would do in your position. If it helps in your decision making process I bought a rebuilt motor/gearbox 200 Tdi 93 Disco 1.

It's about to hit 500,000 k's and apart from a wheel wobble the guys on here helped me fix it's been brilliant. Very, very happy with her. Easy to work on, reliable and cheap to run (for a Disco).

Good luck with your decision, it's for me a bit like the wife. The new models look good but I know and love my baby. The wife's ok as well. :D :D :D :D

[RonMcGr]

Keep the trusty old D1.
Do a "search" on D2 TD5 and you'll feel a lot better with what you have, and save a fortune.

The newer the model the more expensive it gets to keep going.
The D1 is plain, simple and mechanical.

[sniegy]

At the end of the day you will still have an old 4WD that has a lot of km's on it. Yeah ok, the luddite love them, but there is a better best out there when you step into a D2. LR dont spend a lot of time and money redesigning something to not be better than the previous product and it would be stupid for anybody to insinuate that. WE still dont really hear about rusting D2's in Australia either, unlike the D1's.

WRT probs...

The TD5 is reliable. I think you will find that despite what you read on here that they are a very reliable engine and that engine breakdowns are usually from a previous problem. They also have been designed to last significantly longer than the Tdi and there is no reason out there to not believe this.

3 amigos... just run pads that dont produce noise. eg OE or EBC and the 3 amigos wont be an issue.

Turbos dont really give problems. Its very rare to damage one and I would expect no more susceptable than any other turbo out there. They are a good Garrett unit.

Head gaskets are the result of an overheating. Fit a coolant level alarm and its not an issue after this. This is probably no different to any engine with an alloy head anyway.

Electrical gremlins that lose power is the injector loom. These are like the TD5's version of the Tdi's timing belt. The difference is that it doesnt damage the engine if there is a problem unlike a failed timing belt, and you can still drive it home. Its not a big issue and properly serviced Discos will have this found before it becomes a problem anyway.

Dont sweat about finding it hard to change, you will forget the D1 after stepping into a D2 and into a newer 4WD. A test drive will answer your questions.

I will agree with Simon & add a few thoughts of my own.
After having all 3 of them I loved all of them for there different little reasons. 200/300 for just simplicity. The TD5 for the extra room & little more oomph. I did chip mine in the end & added an intercooler for towing & loved it.

4wd4fun, are u to be doing the services yourself? if so it may be good to know that servicing the TD5 will be easier & less time.
Servicing times on the D2 are quicker, hence cheaper to service.
Brakes/Discs for instance 200/300 well there a bit of time per axle here, grease the bearings, replace seals etc, TD5 slip on/off & your done.
There's no sedimentor to take apart & remove the growth of bacteria from, just one fuel filter in the r/h/r wheel arch which incorporates the sedimentor switch.

All vehilces have there faults, best option is to find a low K variant & go for that.
It depends on the previous owner, if all the services have been done its a great help, Would stay away from non serviced vehicles.
As Simon has said overheated variants cause head failure, not much different with the 300's.
A quick check for some of these vehicles that people tend to forget, check all roof mounts, top of "A" &"B" pillars for cracking, sign of overloading on the roof, similar to D1's.

It comes down to personal preference & what u want/need.

Drive one or two & see how u go.
All the best.

[mousie]

I went through this very issue a few months ago and went ahead on the D2 Td5 and kept the old D1 1991 3.5i as well. My solution much to the handbrake's disgust was I am keeping both plus the family car and now call on town and country!!! I mean it does not answer the question but from my experience, given the price variance out there, if you find a bargain in a D2 it will solve many of your problems and just do it, if not, I agree having both in the shed, the old D1 with known fix will continue to be worthy for quite some time yet into the very high 300ks easy.

Geoff

[Piddler]

Test drive a TD5 D2 chipped and you will never go back.
i love mine a joy to drive especially with ACE.
Cheers

[rovercare]

Simple really, do you want a D1 or a D2?;)

[jmkoffice]

Simple really, do you want a D1 or a D2?;)
Exactly. You cannot compare a D1 to a D2. The D2 is a total redesign. The same applies to the D3 - you cannot compare a D3 to a D2.

You either choose old or new technology. Technology can only advance......

[Iain_B]

I had the same idea a month or so ago - I decided to modify and rebuild the D1.

I'm keeping it on the road until I finish my Jaguar XJ-S, but I'm buying the parts and doing little bits:

To date:
Tru-track front and rear diff centres - Front in the shed, rear on order
Maxi drive axles and flanges - in the shed
D-Gas system ( goes in for the final part of the fitting on Saturday)
Replaced Big End bearings as they were through to the copper - easy job about 2 hour or so)
New water pump - In the shed
New Injectors - On order
Long travel Bilsteins - Next on the list
Flares - later
Transmission - still in the shed
Variable Vane Turbo kit - even later - once I see how the ones from the UK go, or I'll build my own manifold and buy the same turbo.

If you want a D2 - then get it, but if you want a reliable go anywhere off-road vehicle - rebuild and modify yours to suit your own needs.

[gwebb]

I have owned a D1 now for 10 years and have used it for commuting and serious off road work and am now facing exactly the same problem that you have. For me; it will cost 20k to upgrade to whatever model that I need (LR or other Make) and 20k buys a heap of spare parts, plus I know what this one has done, how it works and I can do most of it my self. For me, I will keep (spending) the D 1.

[Taz]

If towing is a decision driver, then the D2's 250kg maximum vertical towball limit versus the D1's 150kg may influence your decision.

[ozscott]

Thats interesting about the tow ball limit. My 95 has a tow limit of 4000kg and my 02 3,500kg - crazy stuff. My late had an early 96 that was 3500 and the only difference was that he had ABS...I guess it is down to that change for some reason.

I love my 95 but the D2 is a nicer drive on road. It feels very solid - there are a lot less 'pieces' - Im not going to get involved in a war about this because underneath the D1 has a superior A-arm rear design - superior for off roading that is. The D2 feels much more refined and better put together. Having said that the D1 should be better in the long run without the electronics of the D2. Having said that the Lucas ignition really was finicky, but that can be replaced with Ford V8 and standard HEI Bosch amp module.

The D2 rides and handles much better in the tar. It also accepts much bigger wheels without a lift or guard mods.

I like both mine and would hate to see either go, but I have to say I love my D2 a little more than my D1.

Cheers

[Slunnie]

Im not going to get involved in a war about this because underneath the D1 has a superior A-arm rear design - superior for off roading that is.
Thats an interesting one.

If you dont go beyond a 2" shelf lift, then I'm not convinced it is better.

The reason behind this is that the A-frame produces really good articulation without binding in the rear, but the front ends on the "classics" are very tight and bind up very quickly which reduces artulation at the front. Ie, the back end articulates, and the front doesn't. This isn't a balanced setup.

In the Disco2 they have redesigned the suspension and the front has a lot less binding designed into it which gives greater articulation, and the rear has more built into it by using radius arms like the front. The end result is suspension that is very well balanced offroad with no loss of overall articulation. With ACE it will probably actually have a bit more.

If you want to go beyond 2" shelf designs or are looking for a lot more articulation, then there is a lot more to be had ultimately from the "Classics" A frame suspension.

[4wd4fun]

Thanks for all the feed back and I do use this vehicle offroad (as i have with all my rovers) in the forestries and on the beach and it has always been very capable and most of the time more capable then more modern other makes which always upsets there owners when we go on a trip especialy when a 95 landy has to tow out a 2006 Toyota ot Mitsubishi.
I dont intend to have a higher lift then claimed 50mm with either D1 or D2.
All reasons fore and against are helpful as I can get opinuions from people who have had the same thought of changing and doing one or the other and why.

[Taz]

Thats interesting about the tow ball limit. My 95 has a tow limit of 4000kg and my 02 3,500kg - crazy stuff. My late had an early 96 that was 3500 and the only difference was that he had ABS...I guess it is down to that change for some reason.


The magic work you must have missed was 'vertical' towball limit :). The hayman reece hitch with 4000 horizontal (which is common btn D1 and RRC) had only 120kg vertical. However hayman reece will re-plaqard these to 3500/150 for D1 or 3500/250 for RRC if you ask them.

To be legal, you must not exceed the hitch limit and the vehicle limit. Eg Parkside towbars can supply and fit a 3500/200 hitch for the D1, but this doesnt mean you get a legal 200kg vertical limit. You can only legally have a maximum of 150kg vertical (vehicle limit).

As far as I am aware, most other landrovers; series111, 110's, 130's, D2's, D3's, RR2's have a max vertical towball limit of 250kg.

[4wd4fun]

Thanks for Comments TAZ you are correct with Tow ball limits.
My D1 still has the 4000Kg -120Kg plate and i Only tow dual axle box with a light tow ball weight or camper trailer.
Tow ball limit is not critical for my descision.

[ozscott]

No Taz - I saw what you meant mate. The point Im making is that with a tow limit of 4,000kg per the handbook in my D1 you would need to be aiming for 10% of the tow load being exerted vertically on the tow ball, which would mean to be ideal 400kg of vertical limit on the ball...and for that matter 350 on the D2...thats why its crazy. I know that people will say that the 10% is only a guide and load bars can be used etc, but it still seems mad to me to only have such a limited vertical legal limit on the hitch.

Cheers mate

[Slunnie]

Even if the car would take a ball weight of 400kg, I really would not be running that much. If you centralise the heavy loads as much as possible you can run lighter ball weights and not wag the trailer. From my experiences, as long as the trailer doesn't wag, this setup will perform significantly better with less ball weight. I aim for a slight drop in the rear suspension with the trailer on. Even when towing a car on a car trailer like this, the tow vehicle doesn't move around on the road, and it continues to corner as it does normally. The more you bring the weight forward the more the car starts to move over the road. The thing is though, is that the heavy weight needs to be centralised as much as possible to not wag.

[Disco95]

The way I see it ( and I went throught this till 1 week ago), do you want to mod yours, or do you want a newer vehicle?
Simple as that.
The D2 is a nice vehicle, and extremely well priced for the year.
The D1 is equally a nice vehicle for different reasons.
Don't compare them, think about what you really want, how much do you have to spend to make either vehicle what you want it to be.
Remember that you can make ANY 4WD into a weapon offroad if you REALLY want, but you need to really ask yourself what you want.


By the way.....I kept the D1, but I still look at and ponder the D2's.:)