Sell the Patrol, buy a D II ??

[rick130]

Talk me out of this, please.
I don't know if I could cope with a two car Land Rover household, and would the relationship with SWMBO survive :confused:

This is what transpired.

Ran into a friend at the local store this morning who was driving her bosses (a local Cockie) D II.
He wants to sell it as he doesn't like (trust) it. It has the occasional TD5 electronic gremlin and has stuck him up once or twice.
Throttle potentiometer has been changed, but he wasn't sure if the wiring harness had been swapped out last time I spoke to him about it (twelve months ago) and it has basically been garaged since.
It's five years old (I think) and only 64,000 country km.

I mentioned that Mum might be interested, rang Mum, but they want an auto.

Told SWMBO over morning tea and she said "how much would I get for the Patrol " :eek:

You'd buy a Land Rover ? :eek:

" Yep, it only has 64,000km. Mine ('01 GU ute) has nearly 300,000"

Bloody hell, I'm in shock, and now I'm also thinking of a D II.

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense.

Tows horse well. tick
Better fuel economy than the TD42T. tick
Nicer to drive than the Patrol. tick
Safer to drive. (has airbags, traction control, ABS. Patrol Ute is sans all of those). tick
More comfortable. tick

I've really never had to put a spanner on the Patrol, except there is always a question mark over running temps in summer with the early TD42T GU's. They are prone to overheating, but I think I have that sussed.

Are we mad ?

[Basil135]

Talk me out of this, please.
I don't know if I could cope with a two car Land Rover household, and would the relationship with SWMBO survive :confused:

This is what transpired.

Ran into a friend at the local store this morning who was driving her bosses (a local Cockie) D II.
He wants to sell it as he doesn't like (trust) it. It has the occasional TD5 electronic gremlin and has stuck him up once or twice.
Throttle potentiometer has been changed, but he wasn't sure if the wiring harness had been swapped out last time I spoke to him about it (twelve months ago) and it has basically been garaged since.
It's five years old (I think) and only 64,000 country km.

I mentioned that Mum might be interested, rang Mum, but they want an auto.

Told SWMBO over morning tea and she said "how much would I get for the Patrol " :eek:

You'd buy a Land Rover ? :eek:

" Yep, it only has 64,000km. Mine ('01 GU ute) has nearly 300,000"

Bloody hell, I'm in shock, and now I'm also thinking of a D II.

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense.

Tows horse well. tick
Better fuel economy than the TD42T. tick
Nicer to drive than the Patrol. tick
Safer to drive. (has airbags, traction control, ABS. Patrol Ute is sans all of those). tick
More comfortable. tick

I've really never had to put a spanner on the Patrol, except there is always a question mark over running temps in summer with the early TD42T GU's. They are prone to overheating, but I think I have that sussed.

Are we mad ? TICK


Having to think twice about it? Yep you are mad. Do it. Do it now...

How often is SWMBO going to make an offer like this?

[Phoenix]

I agree with Nike!

Just do it!

[Psimpson7]

Do it!!

[disco2hse]

DII TD5 in today's economic and fuel price climate, at a good price and with low country mileage?

Damn right, go for it.

Most supposed TD5 problems were fixed by then, ours is a very reliable (boringly reliable) and a good comfy and safe ride.

Alan

[isuzurover]

As far as I can see, the only downside is that the TD42T is a great engine!

But like you say, there are (on paper) a lot of advantages to what you propose.

[abaddonxi]

Hmm, rover diff, can you cope?:D:D

Buy, buy.

Simon

[rangieman]

Hmm, rover diff, can you cope?:D:D

Buy, buy.

Simon
Not one but Two of the useless paper weights :wasntme:;)
Yep go for it:cool:

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Its not as though you are going into this with your eyes closed!!!:D

every single fault that has EVER happened to a D2 has happened here,, (in living colour most times :lol2:)

after all that you cant help but make an informed decision,,
go on,, do it,,
you know you want to----:twisted:

[Camo]

Dosn't it depend how much he wants for the D2??:angel:

[mcrover]

Do I need to post up the TD5 list of problems again.....:p

A D2 parked in a shed and not being driven is a D2 that will last forever.

Im sorry but Im going the other way, I would say get rid of the patrol and buy a 130 before buying a D2.

But there is no secrate that im not a fan, too many electrical gremlins to cope with.

If anything, at least the Pootrol is probably less likely to let you down on the side of the road but if you can get it cheap enough the you could make the rest up in tow truck rides.:D

I think youve already made up your mind though and it's your money not mine :D

[rick130]

I'm still in shock she suggested it. She hates Landies..... well, obviously not, it's been a bloody great act and it fooled me. :D
Every argument I brought up against it, she had a counter argument :eek:

Love the Nissan TD42T, and if it didn't go for another 500,000km I'd be surprised, but she just sees the km and it's worring her, even though the damn thing still is still tight and drives well.
I could never see a TD5 lasting that long, but this thing is barely run in.

Price ? well, we could actually be in front off loading the ute and buying the Disco, or at least until the Disco broke down, anyway :p
I'd only pay what he's been offered as a trade, and that isn't a hell of a lot these days.

Couldn't buy another 130 mcover, she only drives mine under sufferance. She doesn't like the driving position, the noise, the turning circle, the noise, the gearbox, the noise, well, you get the idea. ;)

Do worry about a Rover back diff and towing, yet lots of Discoveries are towing vans all over Oz, but a Sals or H233 it isn't.....


Something to ponder over the weekend.......

[mcrover]

Look enough people on here have posted up enough info for pretty much anyone to be able to keep a D2 TD5 going these days and I think Ive said it before, treat it like it's a tinker car, tinker with it most weekends and spare time and it should last for a long time and you should be able to catch most of the little faults before they turn into bigger ones.

Im more of a non fan for people who want to just get in and drive a car servicing it once a year from buying them due to then they complain that their LR let them down but most of the problems were minor a one stage, they just didnt pick it up.

It sounds like a good deal and one that I would even be tempted by.......no thats saying something.

NO YOU WONT BE SEEING ME IN A TD5 D2 at anytime soon TD5 brigade :p

[big guy]

Sometimes its better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

Than again, i like challenges and would do it in a blink.

[rovercare]

Do I need to post up the TD5 list of problems again.....:p

A D2 parked in a shed and not being driven is a D2 that will last forever.

Im sorry but Im going the other way, I would say get rid of the patrol and buy a 130 before buying a D2.

But there is no secrate that im not a fan, too many electrical gremlins to cope with.

If anything, at least the Pootrol is probably less likely to let you down on the side of the road but if you can get it cheap enough the you could make the rest up in tow truck rides.:D

I think youve already made up your mind though and it's your money not mine :D

*shudders*, I agree with Damo:eek:

The TD42 should give no hassles if well maintained at those Km's, I've worked on both, your tick boxs are correct, but your wife will hate you when the Disco stops dead:(

[Slunnie]

I love the TD5, but I'd just keep the Patrol going. That particular one is in my opinion the best vehicle that Nissan made, and will be as enduring as any vehicle will get. Ive not yet heard of a TD5 engine being worn out, and the design was for something like 500,000kms life also which there is no reason to not believe as of yet - but better the devil you know and the Patrol has given you no grief. You can never neglect the disco like you can the patrol either.

If you just want a change.... then go for it.

[rovercare]

I love the TD5, but I'd just keep the Patrol going. That particular one is in my opinion the best vehicle that Nissan made, and will be as enduring as any vehicle will get. Ive not yet heard of a TD5 engine being worn out, and the design was for something like 500,000kms life also which there is no reason to not believe as of yet - but better the devil you know and the Patrol has given you no grief. You can never neglect the disco like you can the patrol either.

If you just want a change.... then go for it.

Ahhh, so nice to hear other unbiased opinions:)

[LandyAndy]

As you have already mentioned,it will do the job so much better than the pootrol,BUT it is a TD5.Love mine,buy a Nanocom ASAP its peace of mind knowing you can look into its brains anytime.Being 5 years old it should be the update with the bugs ironed out.
DO IT:cool::cool::cool::cool:
Andrew

[cucinadio]

" you never never no if you never never go " :D

mate Ive owned a GU and even my D1 sh$#s all over it,
thats why l sold it :D

cheers

[CraigE]

Where does he live and what is his phone number? :o:o;);)

[PAT303]

Just to start off on the above posts, pet peeve of mine is people saying this will outlast that,what a load of crap,how long a motor,drivetrain will last depends on a hundred different things and please nobody come out with the overstressed engine line,if that was true there would be 20 years worth of busted Tdi's lying about,same with electrics,ALL modern motors have it,get used to it,get over it and learn,if I can you all could as I'm not an electrians bum.Buy the D2 Rick,you will love driving it around the Hunter and you will get a good price on the Patrol as the 3ltr is not crash hot but the turbo six is very much in demand. Pat

[rovercare]

Just to start off on the above posts, pet peeve of mine is people saying this will outlast that,what a load of crap,how long a motor,drivetrain will last depends on a hundred different things and please nobody come out with the overstressed engine line,if that was true there would be 20 years worth of busted Tdi's lying about,same with electrics,ALL modern motors have it,get used to it,get over it and learn,if I can you all could as I'm not an electrians bum.Buy the D2 Rick,you will love driving it around the Hunter and you will get a good price on the Patrol as the 3ltr is not crash hot but the turbo six is very much in demand. Pat

Your not an Electrician's bum, I;m a bum Electrician:wasntme:

I DIDN'T argue electronics, but fact is, overstressed?, produceing similar power from 2.5l vs 4.2l? I know which is more stressed:D I failed year 10, but kinda figure simple physics has an underlying sway in this one

Rick doesn;t have to love it, his Cook does:eek:

[Slunnie]

There are 20 years worth of busted tdi's laying around. :D

Cant say the same for TD5's though. :lol2:

[PAT303]

As I said there isn't flogged out 4 and 5 cylinder LR T/D's around.They only seem to have head cracking issue's,fondly enough the same problem low stressed jap six's have. Pat

[rick130]

<snip>
Rick doesn;t have to love it, his Cook does:eek:


Got that in one.
She's a Patrol kind of girl too, just gets in and goes. After 18 years I still can't get her to pop the bonnet and check anything, apparently that's what I'm for.....:D
At least she looks at the gauges and pops the A/C off if the Patrol starts to get warm.....

She travels lots of miles too, regularly (about once a month) travels across to Orange which is five hours one way and not a lot in between, up to Gunnedah and Tamworth in between, off to Sydney all for work, and being self employed, if she doesn't show up it doesn't look good .......... for me :o

I'd never even considered one for her, she's the one that mentioned it (still shaking the head.....)
Nothing will happen till she gets back from work after the weekend anyway, then it'll be a case of her driving it to see if she gets a good feel about it, then we'll see what happens...
Me, I'd keep the Patrol, but she gets the 'buy a new car to beat the breakdown' habit from her Dad. He turns over a new Citroen every 60,000km, just in case......He turned up in a new C5 the other day as his old one had a check engine light come on......

Interesting that my mate Bec who was driving the Disco the other day preferred it to her late model Prado, and her kids absolutely loved it. They were begging Mum to swap their car for it.

[PAT303]

Pesonally Rick I'd be concerned about the overheating bit.If your better half knows to turn the A/C off when it gets hot,thats telling me it happens quite a bit.You might get out while the goings good. Pat

[rick130]

As you have already mentioned,it will do the job so much better than the pootrol,BUT it is a TD5.Love mine,buy a Nanocom ASAP its peace of mind knowing you can look into its brains anytime.Being 5 years old it should be the update with the bugs ironed out.
DO IT:cool::cool::cool::cool:
Andrew

Yep, a Nanocom or equivalent would be almost mandatory.
Work with self diagnostic controls all the time (albeit probably a bit simpler than a TD5 ECU) and need to check thermistors, etc. so it wouldn't be a hell of a stretch.

[rick130]

Pesonally Rick I'd be concerned about the overheating bit.If your better half knows to turn the A/C off when it gets hot,thats telling me it happens quite a bit.You might get out while the goings good. Pat

It's an early GU thing Pat, they all do it.
The rad has to be scrupulously clean to stop the temperature climbing.
When we bought it new in '01 everyone warned us that it'd do it when towing, but it took twelve months to show up.
The GU II's don't do it as Nissan changed the front crossmember and used a much deeper radiator, but there was never any admittance from Nissan that there was an intrinsic problem with the non intercooled ones.

I'm convinced it's an airflow problem, (installed a new fan clutch and fan blade back in March, the plastic blades tend to crack) and have threatend to break out the electric shears and cut a big hole in the bonnet to let the air out, but I keep getting warned on that one. She knows I'd be neat, she's knows my work, but the argument was always the same, what if I want to sell it ? :lol:

[rovercare]

It's an early GU thing Pat, they all do it.
The rad has to be scrupulously clean to stop the temperature climbing.
When we bought it new in '01 everyone warned us that it'd do it when towing, but it took twelve months to show up.
The GU II's don't do it as Nissan changed the front crossmember and used a much deeper radiator, but there was never any admittance from Nissan that there was an intrinsic problem with the non intercooled ones.

I'm convinced it's an airflow problem, (installed a new fan clutch and fan blade back in March, the plastic blades tend to crack) and have threatend to break out the electric shears and cut a big hole in the bonnet to let the air out, but I keep getting warned on that one. She knows I'd be neat, she's knows my work, but the argument was always the same, what if I want to sell it ? :lol:

If you don't use genuine Nissan fan clutch hub, it WILL run temp, don't ask me why it happens, but it must be genuine;)

Alot of TD42 owners Y60 and Y61 have this problem, runs temp, replace with aftermarket clutch hub, till heats, fit alloy rad, different shroud, cut holes......................fit genuine Nissan clutch hub and voila:(

[rovercare]

OH, they're cheap to:)











NOT:mad:

[rick130]

Matt, the old trick used to be to buy some viscous clutch fluid from Toyota and overfill the OE clutch, (it locks up earlier) but that doesn't really help either....:(

The only thing I haven't tried is the hole in the bonnet.

[rovercare]

Matt, the old trick used to be to buy some viscous clutch fluid from Toyota and overfill the OE clutch, (it locks up earlier) but that doesn't really help either....:(

The only thing I haven't tried is the hole in the bonnet.

Why not space the hinges, reversable, then decide on the cut

[mcrover]

Just to start off on the above posts, pet peeve of mine is people saying this will outlast that,what a load of crap,how long a motor,drivetrain will last depends on a hundred different things and please nobody come out with the overstressed engine line,if that was true there would be 20 years worth of busted Tdi's lying about,same with electrics,ALL modern motors have it,get used to it,get over it and learn,if I can you all could as I'm not an electrians bum.Buy the D2 Rick,you will love driving it around the Hunter and you will get a good price on the Patrol as the 3ltr is not crash hot but the turbo six is very much in demand. Pat




A motor and drive train will last as long as it's maintained.....is what I posted and what most of the others have agreed to Matt shuddered but still agree'd.

As far as 20 years of Tdi's laying around, there are, all the ones that people didnt change timing belts or do regular maintenance on because they were used to driving a nissota.

The electronics.....well I am fairly electronics savy, it was the first thing I was qualified in out of school, BCE at Dande Tafe 1990/91 and started my Assoc. Dep but gave up because I wanted to earn money and not chase my bum trying to catch up with the electronics while still at school.

I know a little about electronics and I would say if it were a D3 or a Deefa then there would be no question.....buy it but the D2 electronics is fickle and is not the car I would send my wife out on remote roads driving.

Yes you could carry a nanocom and spares etc etc but Rick isnt always going to be with her for a trip and is she meant to do this stuff on her own.

They are a high maintenance vehical and it has nothing to do with being over stressed.

Yes they are nice to drive and no they dont all stuff up.....just most of them.

[rick130]

Why not space the hinges, reversable, then decide on the cut


Been there, done that, doesn't work (which I didn't think it would)

Base of the screen is a high pressure zone, it's how rear mounted bonnet scoops like A9X Toranas work.

I wool tufted all over the bonnet and guards, (it's how aero was worked out before wind tunnels) and all the tufts blew back under the trailing edge and sides of the bonnet....

A hole in the bonnet to exhaust radiator air has to be reasonably forward.
Look at an Evo or any front engined race car for where they duct the under bonnet air.......or the backs of the guards.

[rick130]

The only thing I haven't tried is run the thing up the range without the bonnet at all.

[redrover3]

Yeah, a good friend of mine has the td42t non-intercooled which heats up very fast when towing up hill. Aircon turns itself off. As soon as it goes over the top of the hill though, the temp drops straight back down to normal. I don't think the vents will help - more a case of the cooling system just not being up to standard at that loading at that time.
I was looking at another forum just recently about this matter and someone had posted about the bottom radiator hose being sucked flat. He put a stainless steel spring in it to keep it expanded and claimed that fixed it. You'd think though, that if the radiator had a blockage then the bottom hose would pressurise being before the radiator in flow pattern.
BTW, I'd keep the patrol if you don't need the extra seats. Not as nice to drive but very robust. Its not as though you don't have a LR.
Tony

[Slunnie]

A motor and drive train will last as long as it's maintained.....is what I posted and what most of the others have agreed to Matt shuddered but still agree'd.

As far as 20 years of Tdi's laying around, there are, all the ones that people didnt change timing belts or do regular maintenance on because they were used to driving a nissota.

The electronics.....well I am fairly electronics savy, it was the first thing I was qualified in out of school, BCE at Dande Tafe 1990/91 and started my Assoc. Dep but gave up because I wanted to earn money and not chase my bum trying to catch up with the electronics while still at school.

I know a little about electronics and I would say if it were a D3 or a Deefa then there would be no question.....buy it but the D2 electronics is fickle and is not the car I would send my wife out on remote roads driving.

Yes you could carry a nanocom and spares etc etc but Rick isnt always going to be with her for a trip and is she meant to do this stuff on her own.

They are a high maintenance vehical and it has nothing to do with being over stressed.

Yes they are nice to drive and no they dont all stuff up.....just most of them.
Out of 3424 posts I think I've only read 1 where you haven't knocked the TD5... that was the one where you called me the 50/50 man. :p

[mcrover]

Out of 3424 posts I think I've only read 1 where you haven't knocked the TD5... that was the one where you called me the 50/50 man. :p

There has been 1 or 2 that I havnt unless the thread is about TD5's, D2's or like this where someone is thinking of buying one.

Everything needs balance Slunnie, ying and yang, TD5 pro/con.

[Slunnie]

There has been 1 or 2 that I havnt unless the thread is about TD5's, D2's or like this where someone is thinking of buying one.

Everything needs balance Slunnie, ying and yang, TD5 pro/con.
I agree. Accuracy is of utmost importance. :D

[rick130]

Yeah, a good friend of mine has the td42t non-intercooled which heats up very fast when towing up hill. Aircon turns itself off. As soon as it goes over the top of the hill though, the temp drops straight back down to normal. I don't think the vents will help - more a case of the cooling system just not being up to standard at that loading at that time.
I was looking at another forum just recently about this matter and someone had posted about the bottom radiator hose being sucked flat. He put a stainless steel spring in it to keep it expanded and claimed that fixed it. You'd think though, that if the radiator had a blockage then the bottom hose would pressurise being before the radiator in flow pattern.
BTW, I'd keep the patrol if you don't need the extra seats. Not as nice to drive but very robust. Its not as though you don't have a LR.
Tony

Thanks, have heard of that and forgotten all about it......

IIRC A Falcon spring fits.

The bottom hose will collapse as it's on the suction side of the pump. Have a set of new hoses and t/stat here, will drop into the local mechanics and go through their parts bins to see what fits inside.

[redrover3]

Thanks, have heard of that and forgotten all about it......

IIRC A Falcon spring fits.

The bottom hose will collapse as it's on the suction side of the pump. Have a set of new hoses and t/stat here, will drop into the local mechanics and go through their parts bins to see what fits inside.

I'd like to hear how you get on with that. What do you mean by Falcon spring?
Tony

[rick130]

I'd like to hear how you get on with that. What do you mean by Falcon spring?
Tony

Spring out of a Falcon radiator hose, can't remember which one was mentioned would fit though..... :angel:

[PAT303]

Your an idea's man Rick!,first with the redline oil,now I will earn browny points with fixing overheating Patrols.Any other tips?. PS water wetter is the tojo fix. Pat

[rick130]

Your an idea's man Rick!,first with the redline oil,now I will earn browny points with fixing overheating Patrols.Any other tips?. PS water wetter is the tojo fix. Pat

Tim Slako from Redline reckoned Water Wetter and straight water but I'm not game to do that with an all alluminium radiator. (Tim is the Oz importer and has rung me a few times for a chat. I was asking too many too technical Q's quite a few years back, and he wanted to know who the hell I was :lol2: )
Works well in race cars though that are a bit marginal in the cooling department.

Tried using Neo keep Cool in the past (it's what I used in race cars as I was sponsored by them, and it worked with straight water, no glycol. It's their version of Water Wetter) but hardly any difference in the Patrol. Not really fair as I added it to the normal 50:50 glycol/water mix.
Also using OAT instead of Nissan coolant, but again, really no change. (OAT has a heat transfer co-efficient roughly half way between straight water and conventional silicate/nitrate inhihibitor glycols)

[PAT303]

So what happens if you go up a long steep hill,does it keep getting hotter?.I'm going the glycol,WW,distilled water next change in my defender. Pat

[rick130]

So what happens if you go up a long steep hill,does it keep getting hotter?.I'm going the glycol,WW,distilled water next change in my defender. Pat

Yep.
If you knock it down a cog and up the revs it staves it off for a little while, (more revs = higher fan speed ??) but the big six isn't a revver like the little Tdi so it's a bit of a juggle.

[PAT303]

I'd buy the Disco. Pat

[rovercare]

Yep.
If you knock it down a cog and up the revs it staves it off for a little while, (more revs = higher fan speed ??) but the big six isn't a revver like the little Tdi so it's a bit of a juggle.

Higher revs keeps the boost up, with lower EGT's, got a pyro on it?

[Disco_owner]

Hi Rick,

I'm with Pat , sell the Pootrol and buy the DII , this is not a Head vs the Heart thing , I only say this because I drove a DII ( Non -Chipped ) with low k's the other day and I can tell you , I was impressed, That Storm engine is responsive :cool: world of difference between my DI and a DII , absolute pleasure to drive , it was quite a refined suspension package with airbag suspension ,not sure if ACE or non ACE but it just seemed more comfortable to drive than my King/Bilstein suspension set up on my D1 with Poly air bags.

[redrover3]

Tim Slako from Redline
Is that the same Tim Slako that used to race a Rover SD1 at Bathurst in the 1980s?
Tony

[rick130]

Is that the same Tim Slako that used to race a Rover SD1 at Bathurst in the 1980s?
Tony

Yep, one and the same.

[Eljaydee]

Hi RedRover3,
I read in a past thread about a falcon spring that fits the bottom radiator hose of a
TD42 Patrol. The numbers quoted are from what model Falcon. I have the same
problem with a Patrol of mine. Would like to try it out .
Look forward to reply. RegardsDOUG.

[rick130]

Higher revs keeps the boost up, with lower EGT's, got a pyro on it?

Nope, it's bog stock on the fuel side of things.

[rick130]

Hi RedRover3,
I read in a past thread about a falcon spring that fits the bottom radiator hose of a
TD42 Patrol. The numbers quoted are from what model Falcon. I have the same
problem with a Patrol of mine. Would like to try it out .
Look forward to reply. RegardsDOUG.

Haven't chased it up yet.
I've either had a Defender in bits on the weekends, :rolleyes: or the weather's been too crap to do anything (I don't have a shed I can run the vehicles in to work on them ATM)