Latest/Largest/Best Rover motor into '58 series one 86 inch.

[hotgemini]

Hello,

Let me start by apologising is what I'm about to ask is considered such common knowledge that it doesn't even bear discussion, I had a good read back through the archives of this forum, the tech forum, faqs and googled around but still haven't come across anything absolutely definitive.

What I'd like to know, is what is the latest/largest/best evolution of the rover petrol 4 cylinder motor that will bolt up in place of the original 2.0 IOE motor?

As best as I can tell the later 2.25 OHV motor is meant to bolt up without too much problem, but my googling tells me that this was replaced with a 2.5 litre motor in the SIII with a 5 main bearing crank and presumably other improvements. Does the later 2.5 petrol bolt up without excess hassle?

For those who are concerned, the original 2.0 IOE will be suitably preserved, protected, palletised and packed away to retain the ability to return to stock down the track, but for whilst the SI is still being used then its probably better to chase power by going later/larger rather than by modifications to the stock engine.

I suppose the other question is availability? Assuming it does go in, how common will I find 2.5s, preferably in SEQ. I apologise again, I'm not actually a land rover owner but rather have been tasked with research by a friend.

-Adam.

[djam1]

I figure that the most common Rover 4 would be the 2.25 Petrol I dont know of the complexeties in doing the conversion though.The 2.5 to my knowledge was not common in Australia but maybe you could import one from the UK.
Why dont you just do up the old one and use it spend your $ on keeping it original and have a real classic??

[Rangier Rover]

Not a 4 cyl but look right and go very well in Series1. A 3 ltr 6cyl out of Rover P6.

[JDNSW]

The largest Rover engine that will easily go into your Series 1 is, as you say, the 2.5litre petrol or diesel. However, this development did not take place until the 110 in 1985 (five bearings came in about 1983 in the last of the Series 3 but still 2.25). And the 2.5 litre engine was never sold in Australia - the 110 only came here with the V8 or Isuzu, neither of which easily go into the S1. (and even five bearing engines are very rare).

So from a practical point of view, the largest engine that will easily fit in the (88") Series 1 is the 2.25, petrol or diesel. Note that the bell housing on these is different from the 2.0, but bell housings are readily available from 2a or 3 vehicles (or complete gearboxes just bolt in). These engines should be fairly easy to find from rusted out S3s (the later engines are slightly improved, but more importantly, have had less use) and you may find new or reconditioned engines with a bit of looking round. All parts are readily available, and you could even overhaul a worn one.

John

With a little more trouble, the 200Tdi or even 300 Tdi can be made to fit, but will require significant body and chassis modifications. Once you start on these there are other engines that can be made to fit, but these get beyond "bolt up".

[ellard]

Hi there

I honestly believe you should stick with the 2lt engine..........with all the headaches involved with conversions etc........

Rebuild the 2lt engine - as its already been said save your $$$$'s and maintain it as a CLASSIC. The series ones are becoming quite an collectable & desirable item

Well thats my two bobs worth

Wayne

[Sleepy]

I'd be interested in the 2.0Litre if you do pull it out.:)

[JDNSW]

I actually agree with Wayne - the 2.0 engine, when in good condition, provides adequate power for the 88 (albeit perhaps not for the 109!), and they really are a very nice engine to live with, smooth, quiet and flexible. If you wanted a high performance four wheel drive, you would not start with a Series 1!

John

[hotgemini]

the 2.5 litre engine was never sold in Australia

So from a practical point of view, the largest engine that will easily fit in the (88") Series 1 is the 2.25, petrol or diesel. Note that the bell housing on these is different from the 2.0, but bell housings are readily available from 2a or 3 vehicles (or complete gearboxes just bolt in).

Not interested in all the other comments, but this was exactly the information I was after. Not interested in body mods, anything done to the S1 has to be reversible, hence the reason behind the wording of the query in the first place.

For all those people whinging about the move away from stock... The more time that the engine spends *out* of the car, safely soaked in lanolin and shrink-wrapped, the MORE original the car will be down the track when it is re-fitted.

This car sees ongoing regular day-to-day use, nothing would be sadder than to consign it to a glass-case, imho when that happens to classic cars its a travesty and a tragedy.

The current 2.0 is in quite reasonable condition, but in my opinion it would be a shame to modify the original motor, when instead a 'non-classic' later motor (seemingingly a 2.25 being the choice) could be rebuilt as a nicer engine while the car remains in active use and retain the option of a straight-forward return to factory running gear down the track.

So, next question, what are the practical considerations between just swapping bellhousings and retaining the S1 box/transfer, as opposed to putting the complete 2.25 engine and box in as a unit? Will tailshafts etc bolt up, if not, what is the logical solution? (eg. is there some combination of factory parts to make it work).

-Adam

[JDNSW]

.......
So, next question, what are the practical considerations between just swapping bellhousings and retaining the S1 box/transfer, as opposed to putting the complete 2.25 engine and box in as a unit? Will tailshafts etc bolt up, if not, what is the logical solution? (eg. is there some combination of factory parts to make it work).

-Adam

The 2.25 engine, apart from the bell housing question is a straight bolt in job, I believe. There will be minor wiring and plumbing issues of course. Since the gearbox and transfer case remain in the same place, there is no issue with prop shafts. Series 1 88/109 transfer case and gearbox are, apart from detail changes, identical to Series 2/2a ones and the transfer case remains the same for the Series 3. (Be aware of the change during 2/2a production from BSF to UNF threads in a number of places, so nuts may not always fit when mixing and matching - just use the right ones and don't wreck any threads!)
You need a 2/2a rather than 3 bell housing, as these retained the same clutch mechanism, with a cross shaft, where the 3 has a completely new fork setup. Handbrake mechanism went through a few changes, but bit are a bolt on swap.

I would be inclined to look for a complete 2/2a engine/gearbox/transfer unit, as it avoids having to swap the bell housing. You will also need (which you may not have thought of) the elbow above the carburettor and the hose to the air cleaner (I think the aircleaner is the same, but the outlet may be a different size - check it).

I hope this helps,

John

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Not a 4 cyl but look right and go very well in Series1. A 3 ltr 6cyl out of Rover P6.
Not without doing the same cutting of body panels and chassis as you do for a Holden straight six engine conversion it won't. More than that it would be a waste of time preserving the 2 litre to put back in.

It would however bolt up to the Series 1 55-58 bellhousing, provided that you used a Land Rover 2.6 flywheel housing and swap the 10" clutch system for something usable in the S1.

The 2.5 litre will be hard to acquire in Australia. The 5 bearing crank 2.3 litre will fit provided you change the gearbox bellhousing for the one out of a series 2 2 1/4. There can be issues on layshaft front bearing if you use some 2a bellhousings.

Diana

[ellard]

Not interested in all the other comments, but this was exactly the information I was after

Hi there

For some one whom has only posted 2 posts - comments like this are a little harsh.

When you ask for the forums views that is what you will get, and comments like you have written in my opinion will make people re-consider responding in the future.

All the best with your project

Wayne

[chazza]

Not a 4 cyl but look right and go very well in Series1. A 3 ltr 6cyl out of Rover P6.

The P6 didn't have a 6 cylinder engine, only a variety of displacement 4 cyl. (depending on country) and the 3.5 litre V8.

I think you might mean the P5,

Cheers Charlie

[Dinty]

G'day All, Good point Wayne well said, but not being a dedicated S1 fan I was always under the impression the engine chassis mounts were different, thus making the later 2.25/2.5 engine a little difficult to fit, I'm sure some one will let me know if I'm wrong cheers Dennis:angel:

[Sleepy]

.... imho ......

;)..

[hotgemini]

I would be inclined to look for a complete 2/2a engine/gearbox/transfer unit, as it avoids having to swap the bell housing. You will also need (which you may not have thought of) the elbow above the carburettor and the hose to the air cleaner (I think the aircleaner is the same, but the outlet may be a different size - check it).

I hope this helps,

John

Excellent, relevant and informative post once again John. I'll start keeping my eyes and ears out for a series 2/2a drivetrain. Plan would call for a total overhaul of the motor (with reasonable modifications for more power/torque without going overboard), box and t/case before it goes near the car. The owner is basically as interested in the process as he is in the end.

-Adam.

[101RRS]

You will also need to change the clutch system over to a hydraulic system - that means either changing to series 2 pedals or somehow modifieing the series 1s.

Garry

[benm]

There were P4 Perkins put in the S1, would have weighed the front and performance down a bit, even with a high speed Al piston version good for over 1,500 RPM!

beautiful old motors would make a nice vintage engine conversion -

[back_in]

Hi
to the new member who has funny thoughts
listen to them that know more than thee
you have no need to re design the wheel
it works quiet well
the 2 ltr engine in a vehicle of 1954/58 vintage
works quiet well
I pull a 600kg trailer behind a 109 58
so play with what is in the car
do not be a CLOWN
and change what work's
cheers
Ian

[Landy Smurf]

i like this thread and i have gotten some out of it as im putting a s3 2.25 in my s1 80inch next week
cheers tony