Engine conversion options?

[95_ES]

Ah well, flame time...:(

As some of you will know, I recently purchased a '95 ES V8 which "seems" as though it might (or might not) have some issues. Firstly with rust, which I'm not "too" worried about, as it won't be driven much for a while, and will be garaged...The 2nd issue is a bit of knock in the engine, which I'm booked in to have diagnosed by the good people at Graeme Cooper automotive...

If issue #2 turns out to be terminal, I'm a little concerned (read: scared :eek:) at the cost of rebuilds for the 3.9s, and more than a little concerned that Rover haven't really sorted out some quite fundamental flaws in the design and execution of the engine in ??? years...The worry being that, if I spend $$$$ rebuilding it, in 100,000 kms I'm going to start hearing more knocks etc :mad:

So, the question becomes whether it's more economical (or even remotely do-able) to put another V8 in there.

If it were up to me (ie. I had the $$), I'd be putting a 1UZ-FE in there, as I've had some experience with these, and know them to be basically unburstable. They're also all-alloy, have 6-bolt mains etc etc.

Problem is that, as a package, they're considerably larger than just about any pushrod V8 (we usually say that if you want to fit one, you need a 700x700x700 cube), and that for a Disco fitment, pretty much everything is on the wrong side, so more $ in custom lines and hoses etc, not to mention fooling the ECU into playing nicely with a manual transmission - unless one can procure a Crown halfcut, with it's separate ECUs for engine and transmission. I'm almost certain that no-one makes an adapter plate to mate these to the Landrover's manual gearbox...

So, I got thinking about other, potentially easier options, such as the humble injected Windsor V8.

Certainly, this all-iron lump will weigh a bit (lot?) more than a Rover V8, but as a package, it almost looks made to fit in an LR engine bay, with all ancillaries in comparable spots, throttle body on the LHS, narrow(er) bank angle (compared to a traditional 90-degree V8), and the pushrod engine's smaller packaging. I'd still need an adapter plate to mate up to the Disco's transmission, and somehow get the Falcon ECU to work in the LR *shrugs*, but apart from that, why shouldn't I consider it?

Note that I'm only researching potential options at this stage, in case it all goes pear-shaped and I get the call from the people at Graeme Coopers that I'm dreading...We'd like to keep this car for a while (even though it will not be driven that often); I just don't want to forking out $$$$ every off year to keep it on the road...

[dickyjoe]

I wonder if the bellhousing on the 6speed ZF V8 OHC Falcons are the same as a Windsor 4 Speed bellhousing?

Sounds totally different just by typing it!

Maybe you could make one.

[boss]

but is it really worth all that grief i would get......:confused: out sorry mate

[rovercare]

First thing is first, Budget? 2nd thing, how much can you do yourself? 3rd, what do you want to achieve?

[Fusion]

What Rovercare said ;) . Might even pay to look around the wreckers and see if they have any complete running engines . Could be a cheaper option to get you back on the road :).

[Blknight.aus]

a quicky re build of the engine alone once you get it out and in for them shouldnt cost you more than $1500 if the block and heads are in good nick..

thats not the same as a full rebuild but its usually enough to give the engine a second life...

if you want the whole 9 yards, just how deep are your pockets?

[Slunnie]

I'd put in another Rover V8. :D

[loanrangie]

Go find yourself a pre 64 big block buick/ pontiac donk, it will bolt straight in - failing that just get another rover short, they are pretty tough little motors.

[shorty disco]

why not a 304, bolted to an auto, adaptor to rover transfer, do this then let me know so i can attempt it later.

[mcrover]

Money, Money, Money..........:eek:

Engine conversions unless you can scrounge the parts and do the work yourself cost normally double what most people budget for it and then if it's to be sorted once it's in, probably double that again.

I would rebuild the 3.9, there's nothing they dont know about these engines anymore and I think your fears of it blowing in 100,000kms wouldnt be true if it was to be built properly with good liners, flowed heads, decent cam etc etc, and if looked after properly will last indeffinately.....as with just about any engine.

But in saying that, if you were to go the conversion path I would go the windsor as this is a tried and true package and there is plenty of info around about it but there will be a lot more to it once you start so be warned, things like sumps and oil pickups, engine mounts and exhaust routing are major hickups that a lot of people dont think about but like I said, there are people such as Matt (Rovercare) who could help out with info on this.

I take it that Toymotor engine was the Toy V8......?

Why not look at a Diesel conversion, you could get info from LRA on the TD5 conversions, Slot in a 4bd1t, go sick on a 300Tdi or jam a Chev duramax in there and hope for only cold days when your driving it :D

[95_ES]

First thing is first, Budget? 2nd thing, how much can you do yourself? 3rd, what do you want to achieve?


Clearly, longevity. (The extra power and torque over standard won't hurt).

The other poster who asked about whether the "Toymotor was the V8?" was correct; It is a V8. 6-bolt mains, 195KW/353Nm standard with easy 300,000km life-spans is why I'd want to do one of these...


At the end of the day, I'd prefer to do nothing. If the GC guys diagnose the noise as "cam float" ( and reckon the rest of the drive-train is OK), then I'll be happy to keep it as is...If not, it may end up on Ebay as parts... :(

@ mcrover - Yep, I know. Having had a 1UZ-FE transplanted into a Cressida, I know (a bit) about the ins and outs of engine conversions...All in all, I suspect a 302 injected windsor into a Disco would be easier.

[mcrover]

Clearly, longevity. (The extra power and torque over standard won't hurt).

The other poster who asked about whether the "Toymotor was the V8?" was correct; It is a V8. 6-bolt mains, 195KW/353Nm standard with easy 300,000km life-spans is why I'd want to do one of these...


At the end of the day, I'd prefer to do nothing. If the GC guys diagnose the noise as "cam float" ( and reckon the rest of the drive-train is OK), then I'll be happy to keep it as is...If not, it may end up on Ebay as parts... :(

@ mcrover - Yep, I know. Having had a 1UZ-FE transplanted into a Cressida, I know (a bit) about the ins and outs of engine conversions...All in all, I suspect a 302 injected windsor into a Disco would be easier.

Talk to Rovercare about it as he had a NA winsor in a Rangie.....or it may have been a Clevo im not sure now that I type it but he's also quite adept at this transplant thing, he's recently done a 350 into Disco and 4bd1t into a RRC along with plenty of others over the years.

[rovercare]

Clearly, longevity. (The extra power and torque over standard won't hurt).

The other poster who asked about whether the "Toymotor was the V8?" was correct; It is a V8. 6-bolt mains, 195KW/353Nm standard with easy 300,000km life-spans is why I'd want to do one of these...


At the end of the day, I'd prefer to do nothing. If the GC guys diagnose the noise as "cam float" ( and reckon the rest of the drive-train is OK), then I'll be happy to keep it as is...If not, it may end up on Ebay as parts... :(

@ mcrover - Yep, I know. Having had a 1UZ-FE transplanted into a Cressida, I know (a bit) about the ins and outs of engine conversions...All in all, I suspect a 302 injected windsor into a Disco would be easier.

1UZ-FE and a baby windsor, are not easy conversions in regards to you disco, merely due to the facts of 1. no readily made adaptors 2. starter motor locations/ how they bolt up, 1UZ in the Valley:mad: and the windsor bolts through the bellhousing, unless of course you have the talent to make one:D, but if you did, you wouldn;t be asking;)

Holden 304 (5L) is an extremely sound, basic conversion, likes LPG and is easy to work on/source parts, engineerable and is somewhat more powerful than a stinky rover motor

But if you'd prefer to do nothing, rebuild or replace the stinky rover motor:)

[PhilipA]

IMHO the BEST engine swap would be a Gen111. It is small light and powerful.

The small block trans adaptors fit, except you have to delete one bolt.
You can get Advance Adaptors plates to reposition the engine mounts to small block, therefore the small block mount adaptors should fit.
You can get back sumps from USA, and also centre dump manifolds from USA (Camaro AFAIK)
The biggest bugbear is that a ZF would only take the torque for a while, and I have been quoted about 6K for an upgrade in Sydney.
Regards Philip A

[mopar]

Go find yourself a pre 64 big block buick/ pontiac donk, it will bolt straight in - failing that just get another rover short, they are pretty tough little motors.
hmm i was thinking the same. except with a 440:twisted: mated to 727

[Bigbjorn]

hmm i was thinking the same. except with a 440:twisted: mated to 727

Go the Full Monty. A new Mopar Performance all aluminium Hemi. Of course, the drivetrain will need some thought.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

or this---


GM Performance Parts 638-hp LS9 Crate engine

Posted Oct 28th 2008 2:33PM by Damon Lavrinc (http://www.autoblog.com/bloggers/damon-lavrinc)
Filed under: Aftermarket (http://www.autoblog.com/category/aftermarket/), Tuners (http://www.autoblog.com/category/tunertuesdays/), Coupes (http://www.autoblog.com/category/coupes/), Chevrolet (http://www.autoblog.com/category/chevrolet/), GM (http://www.autoblog.com/category/gm/)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/1023.jpg (http://www.autoblog.com/photos/detroit-2008-the-chevrolet-ls9-v-8/536187/)

Click above for a high-res gallery of the LS9


General Motors has announced that the blown beastie that lives under the hood of the Corvette ZR1 will be available as a crate motor next fall and our head is spinning with the swap possibilities.

With 639 hp and 604 lb.-ft. of twist available from the 6.2-liter supercharged V8, and dimensions shared by the LS3, any number of vehicles could make a happy home for the LS9. According to GM, the engine comes fully dressed, with an ignition system, exhaust manifolds and supercharger, and only needs an external oil tank and coolant tank (for the charge cooler), an ECU and wiring harness.

[Boxer]

or this---


GM Performance Parts 638-hp LS9 Crate engine

Posted Oct 28th 2008 2:33PM by Damon Lavrinc (http://www.autoblog.com/bloggers/damon-lavrinc)
Filed under: Aftermarket (http://www.autoblog.com/category/aftermarket/), Tuners (http://www.autoblog.com/category/tunertuesdays/), Coupes (http://www.autoblog.com/category/coupes/), Chevrolet (http://www.autoblog.com/category/chevrolet/), GM (http://www.autoblog.com/category/gm/)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/1023.jpg (http://www.autoblog.com/photos/detroit-2008-the-chevrolet-ls9-v-8/536187/)

Click above for a high-res gallery of the LS9


General Motors has announced that the blown beastie that lives under the hood of the Corvette ZR1 will be available as a crate motor next fall and our head is spinning with the swap possibilities.

With 639 hp and 604 lb.-ft. of twist available from the 6.2-liter supercharged V8, and dimensions shared by the LS3, any number of vehicles could make a happy home for the LS9. According to GM, the engine comes fully dressed, with an ignition system, exhaust manifolds and supercharger, and only needs an external oil tank and coolant tank (for the charge cooler), an ECU and wiring harness.

Shaun from Boostworx in SA tried putting an LS1 in a Disco a little while ago but the said it wasn't going to fit all that well (major bummer), but they did end up going with a TPI 350 Chev engine. I've asked him to send me some pics... still waiting

[Boxer]

3.9V8 long motor - Used Parts - Triumph Rover Spares South Australia (http://www.triumphroverspares.com.au/page.asp?parentid=5&parent2id=14&productid=38)

[mopar]

Go the Full Monty. A new Mopar Performance all aluminium Hemi. Of course, the drivetrain will need some thought.
yea but i dont have/cant afford one of them. the auto/transfer box should hold up ok. dunno how the diffs will go. the 5.7 or 6.1 hemi could also be used (they have the same bellhousing pattern as a sb mopar 318/360) and can be purchased new from chrysler with plug and play cpu. i think an ls1 would be cheaper tho

[Boxer]

I know where there's a written off new RR sport with the supercharged V8 in it :)

That'd go well in my Disco

[Bigbjorn]

yea but i dont have/cant afford one of them. the auto/transfer box should hold up ok. dunno how the diffs will go. the 5.7 or 6.1 hemi could also be used (they have the same bellhousing pattern as a sb mopar 318/360) and can be purchased new from chrysler with plug and play cpu. i think an ls1 would be cheaper tho

I was thinking of the 528 Hemi. Still the world's cheapest bulk horsepower.

I think the bell housing pattern on the LA's is SAE No.3. Don't have one here to measure.

[mopar]

I was thinking of the 528 Hemi. Still the world's cheapest bulk horsepower.

I think the bell housing pattern on the LA's is SAE No.3. Don't have one here to measure.
whats sae No.3 never before heard the phrase. for cheap bulk horsepower (up to about 2000 hp) i think cheby is the go

[klappers]

I would stick to all Rover... 3.9

[Slunnie]

IMHO the BEST engine swap would be a Gen111. It is small light and powerful.

The small block trans adaptors fit, except you have to delete one bolt.
You can get Advance Adaptors plates to reposition the engine mounts to small block, therefore the small block mount adaptors should fit.
You can get back sumps from USA, and also centre dump manifolds from USA (Camaro AFAIK)
The biggest bugbear is that a ZF would only take the torque for a while, and I have been quoted about 6K for an upgrade in Sydney.
Regards Philip A
I think CAL415 was finding that the adaptors dont suit due to the size of the clutch and flywheel, and if you run the smaller 350 flywheel then the starter wont mesh in. I'm not sure, but I'm guessing the GenIII adaptors will have to be full belhousings or similar to make it all fit as even the Rover bellhousings are too small. This said, I think Lokka mentioned something about machining the adaptor for clearance.

[klappers]

I think CAL415 was finding that the adaptors dont suit due to the size of the clutch and flywheel, and if you run the smaller 350 flywheel then the starter wont mesh in. I'm not sure, but I'm guessing the GenIII adaptors will have to be full belhousings or similar to make it all fit as even the Rover bellhousings are too small. This said, I think Lokka mentioned something about machining the adaptor for clearance.
That sounds like way to much effort

[rovercare]

I think CAL415 was finding that the adaptors dont suit due to the size of the clutch and flywheel, and if you run the smaller 350 flywheel then the starter wont mesh in. I'm not sure, but I'm guessing the GenIII adaptors will have to be full belhousings or similar to make it all fit as even the Rover bellhousings are too small. This said, I think Lokka mentioned something about machining the adaptor for clearance.

Just get a 153 tooth count flywheel,flexplate made and fit a multi fit starter

[Bigbjorn]

whats sae No.3 never before heard the phrase. for cheap bulk horsepower (up to about 2000 hp) i think cheby is the go

The SAE long ago (pre WWII) issued standards for bell housing bolt patterns. ost US origin vehicles comply. Any housings of the same number will interchange.