Custom high mount winch bar for a Defender - ideas?

[Offender90]

Hi all,

I'm designing a custom high mount winch bar for a defender & want to keep a good approach angle. I have a non AC defender and will be recessing the winch into the grill to minimise front wheel overhang. I like the A-frame style bars and already have a Bearmach A-frame, which I plan to use as I don't have access to a tube bender.

I've got a concept sketch so far, and have been trying to determine the best location to mount the winch in relation to the chassis mounts.

This is the concept (although it may look significantly different by the time the winch fits the bar)

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/4572/winchbarsketchcopy.jpg

A couple of questions for those of you who have a similar setup:

1.) How close to the radiator is your winch bar mounted? I was thinking about 40mm to 50mm to be plenty. Too close or too conservative?

2.) At what height is the base of your winch in comparison to the chassis mounts, and how far forward? Based on preliminary calcs, I came up with the following:
a.) Face of winch mounting plate ~135mm in front of the chassis rails.
b.) Bottom of the "winch mount tray" in line with the bottom of the chassis rails -( although I'm thinking of moving it up so its in line with the top of the rail instead)

i.e. it would be mounted somewhat like this:

Side:

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/4375/sideview.jpg


Top:

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/6678/topview.jpg


Front:

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/3161/frontview.jpg


And Iso:

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/5724/isoview.jpg


How do these compare with other setups you've seen? Any thoughts?

Cheers

Bojan



Oh, this is what its going on by the way - the one on the left with the A frame

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/76/newadditionhm4.jpg

[uninformed]

heres mine,

keeping the bottom of winch with the bottom of the chassis rail is better practice, but it will reduce the approach angle.

if you dont have A/C, and you have a TDI or td5 i would definately consider a full width intercooler and rad...

my winch is quite close to my A/C condensor, about 25mm, you may get some flexing, but you want that craddle to be pretty damn stout, and fixed to the chassis well to do its job anyway.

if my winch touches my A/C condensor or rad, i've had a pretty major impact, that having no winch wouldnt really matter anyway.

Serg

[Offender90]

heres mine,

keeping the bottom of winch with the bottom of the chassis rail is better practice, but it will reduce the approach angle.

My initial thoughts also, to have the bottom of the drum in line with the middle of the chassis rails (as in front pic) to avoid a bending moment applied to both the bar and the mounting bolts. The chassis rails look sturdy enough not to worry.

If I were to raise the mount height, I'd have to stiffen the winch mount tray with a plate either side, going all the way back to the chasis mount. I figure can lift it by ~5cm before introducing any real bending moment, but would ideally want to go up to 10 cm. Hmmm... thoughts?

if you dont have A/C, and you have a TDI or td5 i would definately consider a full width intercooler and rad...

Cheers :BigThumb:, this one's a V8 - my oiler is getting a full width intercooler tho (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/isuzu-landy-enthusiasts-section/67186-another-120-project-begins.html), just needed to figure out where to fit it (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/isuzu-landy-enthusiasts-section/73368-ving-radiator-backward-4bd1-county.html).

my winch is quite close to my A/C condensor, about 25mm, you may get some flexing, but you want that craddle to be pretty damn stout, and fixed to the chassis well to do its job anyway.

I was more worried about untidy cable damaging the radiator - do you have any sort of a shield around the winch drum to stop the cable from touching the rad?

if my winch touches my A/C condensor or rad, i've had a pretty major impact, that having no winch wouldnt really matter anyway.

X 2

Serg

Cheers

Bojan

[Chucaro]

I was looking the other day this photo on a competition LR which have a very simple mount.

Cheers

[Psimpson7]

heres mine,

keeping the bottom of winch with the bottom of the chassis rail is better practice, but it will reduce the approach angle.

if you dont have A/C, and you have a TDI or td5 i would definately consider a full width intercooler and rad...

my winch is quite close to my A/C condensor, about 25mm, you may get some flexing, but you want that craddle to be pretty damn stout, and fixed to the chassis well to do its job anyway.

if my winch touches my A/C condensor or rad, i've had a pretty major impact, that having no winch wouldnt really matter anyway.

Serg

The TD5 has, as standard both a full width rad and intercooler.

[Psimpson7]

Bojan,

here is mine. (before we cut the wings, rewired it and chopped the little chassis protrusions off) It sits very very close to the intercooler, and above the chassis rails.

eta I think there a 9 bolts that hold it on, including 3 down vertically through the front x member

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1296.jpg

[leeds]

Have a look HERE for some ideas.

Sitting the bumper on top of chassis rail improves approach angle. Make the bumper tapered and cut the bottom of wings as well.

A lowline winch such as a Warn 9.5 can fit inside a straight bumper. Large winches such as the Warn 8274 can not. Synthetic lines have a smaller fairlead.

To improve approach line completely need a centre mounted winch and you can get away with just a small fairlead at the front.

HTH


Regards


Brendan

[uninformed]

what is really important to you?

is the ultimate approach angle what your really after? or just a good overall package?

raising the high mount will block the rad and intercooler. you already mentioned the structural disadvantages...

cutting the wings and tapering the bar up and back like mine does have its advantage...alot of the time we dont approach things dead square on, this style leads to a better approach angle on the corners...

just keep playing around with the designe, i just did 1-1 scale drawings on the garage floor till i got what i wanted, if i was doing it over i would probably try and get my winch lower...

no i dont have anything between the winch and condensor, it hasnt been a problem yet, but not a bad idea...

how do i post full size pics, not thumb nails?

Serg

[taff]

hey bojan fromwhat you've drawn it doesn't look to disimilar from a scorpoin racing bar, and with the man hours to build it, it may work out cheaper to buy one. though no satisfaction of it being your own. heres a link to mine

110 county picture by taff-in-oz - Photobucket (http://s607.photobucket.com/albums/tt153/taff-in-oz/?action=view&current=county024.jpg)

it sit's about 20mm in front of rad but i put the control box under the bonnet so as not too have too much blocking the airflow in front of rad.

[Michele]

Hello there,
here's how I did mine:
The D-90 Source - Homeworks (http://www.d-90.com/forum/showthread.php't=5389&highlight=bumper)

in the pics there's still the SW X9, I later got an 8274 and had a brand new cradle to suit, with +++ gussets.
The cradle simply sits on top of the bumper, and the combo never batted an eyelid so far.

Basically the bumper is a replica of the stock one (dimensionally speaking),
just with tapered ends and integrated recovery points.

And of course it's thicker :)

[uninformed]

while i love the simplicity of the comp stuff, they dont meet the requirements of an all round bar for a road driven rig. especially legal requirments.

some of those pics show very vanrerbal gaurds, thats one of the reasons i cut mine, and ran the bar out the sides, its also triangulated from underneath and back to the chassis...

if your going to travel out west or on properties my bar would be a minimum as far as frontal protection of lights etc... kangaroos and scrub dont respect the front of rovers.

Serg

[rick130]

<snip>

if your going to travel out west or on properties my bar would be a minimum as far as frontal protection of lights etc... kangaroos and scrub dont respect the front of rovers.

Serg

and you don't have to go west either, we're about 4 hours out of Sydney and about the same longitude and I've lost count of the roo strikes over the last eight years, but that's why a lot of us run side bars too, so then they go for the back doors instead :rolleyes:

[andrew e]

I used an early arb winch bar for my county, the high mount bolts straight in. I then cut about 50mm out of the brackets so it sits closer to the body, and the winch went inside the grill

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=14037&stc=1&d=1236170148








With my defender i was able to get the highmount a bit further back..........






https://www.aulro.com/afvb/


Andy

[Psimpson7]

while i love the simplicity of the comp stuff, they dont meet the requirements of an all round bar for a road driven rig. especially legal requirments.

Serg

Fail to see what legal requirements my front bar doesn't meet because it is simple...? (assuming you are pointing that at me?)

[Offender90]

Thanks for all the feedbackl,

I'll be positioning the winch up and back a bit (it'll be mounted in line with the top chassis rail (+ approx 10mm) & qpprox 25mm back from the radiator)

Will post the concept design once its completed, several weeks at this rate, have a couple of busy weeks ahead.


hey bojan fromwhat you've drawn it doesn't look to disimilar from a scorpoin racing bar, and with the man hours to build it, it may work out cheaper to buy one. though no satisfaction of it being your own. heres a link to mine

110 county picture by taff-in-oz - Photobucket (http://s607.photobucket.com/albums/tt153/taff-in-oz/?action=view&current=county024.jpg)

it sit's about 20mm in front of rad but i put the control box under the bonnet so as not too have too much blocking the airflow in front of rad.

Jason, the thought did cross my mind, but I want to push the winch in and up as far as I can + those things are exxy, especially nowdays the aus$ has tanked.


With my defender i was able to get the highmount a bit further back..........

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=14038&stc=1&d=1236170537

Andy

Yeah, just a bit further hey? ;) What engine are you using, and more importantly, where did it go?!!!

Cheers

Bojan

[Offender90]

how do i post full size pics, not thumb nails?

Serg

There is a post on http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/25511-how-post-photos-forum.html by Ron, have a look it should tell all.

In short, youl have to open up a photobucket, imageshack (or similar) account, post photos there, and link to them from the forum.

Enjoy

Bojan

[Bundalene]

Yeah, just a bit further hey? ;) What engine are you using, and more importantly, where did it go?!!!


Bojan

injected 3.9 disco v8 at the moment, but soon a very special motor will be taking its place ;)


Its about 450mm back, and 75mm lower than stock.


Andy

[discowhite]

Fail to see what legal requirements my front bar doesn't meet because it is simple...? (assuming you are pointing that at me?)

pete, the only part of your bar that wont pass the australian stands for frontal protection systems is the recovery points, as they are a protrusion. technically the fairlead is also, as its not part of the bar but bolted to it. arb got around this awhile ago by attaching the little plates that hold the fairlead.


cheers phil

[4bd1discovery]

my friend just made one for a discovery it looks brilliant the site he got the ideas from is Defender 8274 Predator Winch Bumper | Cheviot 4x4 (http://cheviot4x4.com/shop/Vehicles/Defender/Cat/Bombproof%20Body%20Armour/Product/Defender%208274%20Predator%20Winch%20Bumper/)
it is a pretty good looking bar

[Offender90]

Thought I'd post up a few concept pics and get some feedback before I get too far into working out every last detail:

Here's the bar (the green A-frame in below pics is made by bearmach and adapted for the winch by yours truly):

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/5598/winchbariso.jpg

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/7510/winchbarfront.jpg

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/7232/winchbarside.jpg

and here it is with the winch sitting on chasis rail ends (shown without A-frame):

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/2996/isowinchassy.jpg

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/7629/sidewinchassy.jpg

The winch is a pretty tight fit. It clears the front crossmember vertical plane (looking from the top) by ~7.5mm (~3 cm from radiator face if memory serves me right) and the A-frame clears the top of the winch by ~15mm.

I've still got a few details to iron out and to decide if cross bracing bars are needed at the bottom (shown in concept pic on first page), or if I should just up the thickness of the round tube?

Any thoughts?

Also, the chasis rail ends that are drawn above are from a county. Defender chassis rails have additional bits protruding at the bottom (see Psimpson's pic in post (#7) - I'm talking about the galvanised bit protruding below the bar.) Does anyone know if it has any real purpose?

Nice galvanised chassis by the way Pete, I'm envious!.

I'm tempted to chop it back to county style end, as otherwise I have to design a weaker mount to the bottom bolt to accomodate for the little bulge.

Also, can anyone forsee any issues with chopping it off from a legal / registration &/or licencing perspective?

Cheers all

Bojan

[Tombie]

Looks almost exactly like the Scorpion bar!!! Minus the outrigger supports...

[Offender90]

Looks almost exactly like the Scorpion bar!!! Minus the outrigger supports...

It does too! The irony is, I never saw it (in detail) until just then!! Would have saved me a few hours of trying to figure things out. I used this bar (http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.firstfour.co.uk/images/www.firstfour.co.uk/thumb/th3211188598027FF50a.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.firstfour.co.uk/p0/defender/227976.htm&usg=__D6GSdemR9a0fapUl-73qtJDKCKg=&h=55&w=100&sz=3&hl=en&start=30&sig2=Z2VolHudpUndP1h7_13wcw&tbnid=eYiDVFlrnVg_7M:&tbnh=45&tbnw=82&ei=ZzrASfPdEYzRkAWSmcgw&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddefender%2B8274%2Bwinch%2Bbar%26gbv%3 D2%26ndsp%3D18%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN%26s tart%3D18) as a "starting point" and changed all the features I thought were not good design... down to the bottom cross bracing (outrigger support) being swept backwards to stiffen it up and prevent it moving inwards if you hit something front on. lol... only to end up with a scorpion bar "copy". Only I would have used a thicker tubular bar (i.e. greater OD) with thinner walls to better resist buckling.

Looks like they grind off the little bulge at the bottom of the chassis rail ends (the bits that buckle outwards) to fit.

On a different note, looks like I'll be using "their" A-bar to make the bumper too!!! :p:p :wasntme:

[cal415]

it looks good, what is the program you used to draw it all up?

[Boxhead63]

it looks good, what is the program you used to draw it all up?


I'd be interested in that as well

Rob

[Offender90]

All the drawing was done in SolidEdge, but there are several 3D modelling packages around.

They're good for making sure everything fits before ordering and/or cutting up material. As with anything else, you've got to be careful with dimensions of original parts. As the old adage goes... garbage in garbage out.

[Xtrem90]

Here is the Scorpion Bar, picked it up at Rovercraft WA...Was last on the shelf at the time (Apr 08)....Paid $1100 from memory.
When fitting there are just 6 bolts in total, difficult to line up as the bar was slightly out..Seems there was a doing up sequence I needed to follow with out having the instructions!!

Hope it helps.

[rustys-claptrap]

in one of my landy mags( i think it is a land rover owner enthusiast) thier is an add near the back with a company tha t makes one like andrew e's but it hugs closer to the body and has plating around the lights with the winch cut into the grill. im not sure what the name is but when i find it i will let you know