Stirlsilver's Disco Ute Project [Archive] - Page 2

Skiboy

11th December 2012, 05:38 PM

A quick observation - how are you planning to insert the glass in the side panels?

The bottom of the frames attached to the door 'appears' to be narrower than the widest part of the glass. Also the 'door' side panel support looks like it might get in the way of sliding the glass up and in.

And dare I say this once finished will the glass be removable in case of repair?

I am sure you have thought this out as everything else has been well thought out. The reason I am asking these types of qu is that in my series/stage one/rangie build (yellow truck as avitar above) I ended up redoing stuff when I found I could not easily remove and reinstall parts I had made that needed to come in and out as the build progressed.

Also having had to repair a custom made ute (our orange rangie ute - signature below) you soon realize that custom made parts also mean custom repairs. Keep this in mind when you do your rear wall and attach it to the sides.

The side panels (cut down doors) are the most likely to get damaged and need repair and /or broken side glass hence you might want to ensure your construction can be undone if needed.

I don't know how you plan to finish the ends of the door and attach to the rear wall but one option might be to cap the ends of them and screw them from the inside to tabs so they butt against the corner of the rear wall filling/sealing the join with sealant. That way the whole side panel/door can be removed if needed.

Looking forward to more pics in due course

SKiboy

stirlsilver

11th December 2012, 11:00 PM

Thanks for some great input Skiboy, I really appreciate it!

A quick observation - how are you planning to insert the glass in the side panels?

The bottom of the frames attached to the door 'appears' to be narrower than the widest part of the glass. Also the 'door' side panel support looks like it might get in the way of sliding the glass up and in.

And dare I say this once finished will the glass be removable in case of repair?

I am sure you have thought this out as everything else has been well thought out. The reason I am asking these types of qu is that in my series/stage one/rangie build (yellow truck as avitar above) I ended up redoing stuff when I found I could not easily remove and reinstall parts I had made that needed to come in and out as the build progressed.

I was wondering when someone would ask how I am going to get the glass into the frame with the bottom being the narrowest point. And to be honest that is something I still need to look into into more detail.

My way of thinking at this stage is that since I am going to be using the original window rubber seal, it fills approximately half the depth of the channel, and if i don't go too far down, I may be able to have the width of the window narrower than the clear width at the bottom. Like I say, I need to look in to this in more detail, especially since there is a threaded block which the bolts screw into right at the bottom of the channel. If it fouls, I have an option to grind the block and bolts down to get the necessary clearance I need. And if that doesn't work, i'll cut some of the bottom section off until I get the clearance I need. It would have been nicer to have cut the channel at the angle and then reweld it vertical, but that is too much fiddling around in my opinion!

For the window, you make a very good point regarding the fouling of that brace with the path the window would need to follow to be removed with the frame in situ. Actually that isn't the only fouling point, the lower beam that runs from the rear frame down the B pillar will also foul.

What I have been thinking up until this point is to make the window out of Polycarbonate since I need to have a curved profile to the window (getting a custom curved tempered window panel is probably a bit over the top!). If I notch out the small upper brace I may have enough flexibility to extract/insert the polycarbonate panel by bending it around the inside of the lower brace and through the notch into the guide.

Also having had to repair a custom made ute (our orange rangie ute - signature below) you soon realize that custom made parts also mean custom repairs. Keep this in mind when you do your rear wall and attach it to the sides.

The side panels (cut down doors) are the most likely to get damaged and need repair and /or broken side glass hence you might want to ensure your construction can be undone if needed.

I don't know how you plan to finish the ends of the door and attach to the rear wall but one option might be to cap the ends of them and screw them from the inside to tabs so they butt against the corner of the rear wall filling/sealing the join with sealant. That way the whole side panel/door can be removed if needed.

You raise some very good points here and of course having the panel removable would definitely be a benefit, but it certainly will add a lot more complexity especially when trying to get a factory finish! At this stage I am thinking of finishing the rear quarter panels in a similar fashion to how I did the roof. Make up some steel ribs, weld them to the vertical column of the rear frame and the rear wall and bond them to the aluminium door skin. Then fill the cavity with Polyurethane foam and then expoxy glass over the top.

This construction method is basically going to make the whole thing permanent and unable to be removed. Of course an impact to this area is quite literally my worst nightmare because the epoxy will crack and panels would bend. But the thing is even if I made the panels with a seam to allow them to be removable, it is still quite likely that the damage from a reasonable the impact to the side will extend into the rear wall. And since everything is custom I will still have to hand make the repairs again. In the instance of local dents, well they could be bogged and painted I suppose.

Just while typing this I've actually thought of an idea that may actually address this in a better way actually - When I finish the car I might take it to a fibreglassing place and get them to make some nice molds of the rear quarters, rear wall and roof. That way if any of these panels get damaged they could just be cut out and fibreglass replacement panels used instead. I could perhaps then sell the panels to anyone interested in doing a similar build perhaps?

stirlsilver

15th December 2012, 09:07 PM

WHOA! 40,000 views of this thread!! Thanks to everyone following and helping out with input on the build :)

Today I had Taro in the workshop lending me a hand which was a great help. The right hand side window frame is now done (in the same manner as shown previously), the roof has been tidied up and given another coat of primer and the rear window panel has been trimmed down and then with some input from Wayne, we put together a jig that allowed for some creases to be made down the edges of the panel.

I opted to add the creases so that it makes the future fibreglass work easier because I can now layup the fibreglass on a landing and spend less time blending the fibreglass into the steel (I spent hours with blending the fibreglass into the steel on the roof!).

Sorry about the blurry shots... I forgot the camera so I had to use my phone.

The jig just after finishing a run along the edge of the panel.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/775.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/776.jpg

Taro showing how it is done. Blocks of steel and a big hammer!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/688.jpg

The finished result
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/689.jpg

rangieman

15th December 2012, 10:48 PM

Well done mate looking realy good :D Now extract the digit and get this beast out on the tracks ;)

stirlsilver

16th December 2012, 10:49 PM

Thanks Chris, I am really trying to get this finished as quickly as possible. But the amount of work is huge!!

Today I spent the whole day on the donor car, preparing the engine to be pulled out.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/644.jpg

A hell of a lot of work is needed just to get the engine out! I've run into a problem trying to get two of the bolts that connect the engine to the bell housing at approximately the 2 O'clock position (when facing forwards). I simply cant turn a ratchet in that space. Does anyone have tips on how to remove these bolts on a series 1 auto discovery?

MacMan

17th December 2012, 07:06 AM

I can't speak for the auto because I've never done one but the LT77 bellhousing was still a fiddle when I did my rebuild. Most of the top bolts were removed using a series of extension bars to allow the ratchet to work from behind the transfer. These were all wobble bars. They had to be offered up in pairs and joined in place. Fiddly but effective.

disco_goose

17th December 2012, 09:52 AM

Just spent 3 hours following this from the start. I commend you on your work thus far!! Now cant wait to see it completed. You are one patient man...i couldnt do it. Cheers, Goose

Skiboy

17th December 2012, 01:27 PM

What macMan says - get a whole heap of socket extension bars and run back along the top of gear box/transfer to where you can get your breaker bar on - I think I use 2x long and 2x medium bars - and buy some of the extensions which allow side movement (I presume that is what MacMan means by wobble bars - don't know the correct term)

These wobble bars are simply wonderful where you can't get correct line up - get a short and medium wobble connectors - the short one is handy to put half way along so the long extensions can flex.

Alternate is to cut a hole in the fire wall - given a donor car might be quicker esp if ceased.

Note - one HUGE advantage of a body lift is access to the bell housing bolts - so another alternate approach is undo the front body mounts and jack up the body - block it then use access to get to the bolts.

Skiboy

Skiboy

17th December 2012, 01:45 PM

Thanks for some great input Skiboy, I really appreciate it!

Just while typing this I've actually thought of an idea that may actually address this in a better way actually - When I finish the car I might take it to a fibreglassing place and get them to make some nice molds of the rear quarters, rear wall and roof. That way if any of these panels get damaged they could just be cut out and fibreglass replacement panels used instead. I could perhaps then sell the panels to anyone interested in doing a similar build perhaps?

Definitely do this - it was a thought I had too (as I fixed the damage to our unique panels) - it would have been great to have a set of glass molds/panels from before damage to the rear panel - a glue on replacement would make life so much easier and driving less stressful. Repairs a quick and easy that way.

Also I would consider making the bottom curved panel a glue on job into a recess like you did on the rear wall panel. This was a very neat trick and one I noted for any future work I do on the alloy Stage One/Rangie ute (the yellow one in my sign on).

You could make the curve fit over the rear panel and under the door skin and be glued in place. Cut glue to remove and replace.

I am sure you could sell these sections - and possibly one of your roof if you had a mold made. Or if not interested in selling panels see if someone wants to make and buy the molds from you to offset your build costs.

Given prices of D1s and in the future D2s more and more people will want to build one of these now good rangies getting hard to come by. So a market for the panels or a kit.

Skiboy

disco2hse

17th December 2012, 02:43 PM

Just to extend that. On my boat I have toughened glass in the front and wise screens. I have accurate plywood templates so they can be replaced easily if the glass is broken.

You might want to consider that for the rear window, etc.

Alan

stirlsilver

18th December 2012, 11:16 PM

Thanks for the input everyone. I opted for taking an angle grinder to the car:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/523.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/524.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/525.jpg

I then proceeded with pulling the engine out of the car. Now there is an easy way to do this............ Or the hard way:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/526.jpg

After struggling for ages to get the engine into the workshop, I finally got there:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/527.jpg

Skiboy

19th December 2012, 12:18 AM

Note you will face same bell housing bolt issue on reinstall (just done one in the weekend).

Do you have a body lift on the new cab (sorry can't remember) if so then will have more room to get to bolts but will still need to use same technique to do bolts up.

SKiboy

stirlsilver

23rd December 2012, 11:45 PM

Do you have a body lift on the new cab (sorry can't remember) if so then will have more room to get to bolts but will still need to use same technique to do bolts up.

At this stage, there is no lift on the body. Though it is looking like that wil change. Before I decide on how much is needed, I have to start looking at guard clearances at the front.

I was in the workshop again this weekend, and in hindsight it wasn't an overly productive use of my time. I went ahead and tidied up the rear wall so it fits around the rear wall horizontal beam and I also put steps down each edge of the panel:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/369.jpg

The rest of my time went basically into unbolting the toque converter off the back of the flex plate. That was a bit fiddley because I didn't want to pull the sump off. But I got there in the end. So the engine is now sitting on the engine stand:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/370.jpg

This evening I was spending some time looking at the rear quarter window frames. Currently the way I have made them it is like they form a small door which would seal against some rubber door seals. I think it will look strange to have the same arrangement as the front door window frames. So at this stage I think I will be fibreglassing the rear quarter window frame to the B pillar so that it looks like one continuous piece.

Also, I'm now starting to think about engine and gearbox work. At this stage I'm thinking of getting the ZF 4HP22 overhauled and upgraded with 4HP24 internals (which are supposedly much stronger). Have a look here to see what I mean:

Ashcroft Transmissions - ZF4HP22 (http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=51)

The costs of the overhaul and upgrade are pretty staggering though!

On the engine side of things, I now need to start thinking about turbos, exhaust manifolds and inlet manifold modifications.

Skiboy

24th December 2012, 12:34 PM

2inch body lift is usually enough with some guard cutting - that is all we have plus 2 inch springs on our rangie ute

What ever you decide remember you want to minimize the weight up high for max stability.

Side windows - if worried about the door look (and that may be an issue) then why not rethink the whole side windows. My suggestion is to think about complexity - my son keeps reminding me to KISS - keep it simple stupid as I like to make it too complex.

So a suggestion might be to use sheet metal just like the rear with a fold (maybe rounded) and the corner. Then cut and rubber the side windows in as per the rear. Like on defenders etc.

Auto
Did you unbolt the auto from flexi plate via the hole in bottom or the front plate? You may know all this but I made up a socket on a bent steel bar so can use socket from front to undo flexi plate bolts. Done 3 auto conversions with this now. Works a treat.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/357.jpg

In use
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/358.jpg

And a tip for holding torque converter in place while installing (so not slip out and then stuff oil pump lugs when bolting in (experience :confused:) - bolt an alloy bracket bent to hold torque converter in place - see below

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/359.jpg

Bolted to inspection hole
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/360.jpg

Looking good.
Skiboy

stirlsilver

24th December 2012, 11:16 PM

So a suggestion might be to use sheet metal just like the rear with a fold (maybe rounded) and the corner. Then cut and rubber the side windows in as per the rear. Like on defenders etc.

That is a thought, but the area where the whole thing would become unstuck is the curved surface. It would be tricky to form up a folded section that is curved for me. I think I'll carry on how I am currently going. An alternative could be to stitch weld in some thin sheet metal across all gaps and then bog it so it all blends. At this stage, i'm still leaning towards fibreglass

Auto
Did you unbolt the auto from flexi plate via the hole in bottom or the front plate? You may know all this but I made up a socket on a bent steel bar so can use socket from front to undo flexi plate bolts. Done 3 auto conversions with this now. Works a treat.

And a tip for holding torque converter in place while installing (so not slip out and then stuff oil pump lugs when bolting in (experience :confused:) - bolt an alloy bracket bent to hold torque converter in place - see below

I'm not very familiar with automatic transmissions to be honest. I've always had manual cars, this is the first auto. To illustrate the point, when I pulled the engine out, I was told to make sure to unbolt the torque converter before pulling the motor out. So I proceeded to to remove all the bolts along the circumference of the flex plate. Later when I had the engine half out, to my horror I saw the torque converter coming with it! Turns out I unbolted the ring gear!

I did have a read through your build thread (nice work by the way), and I did notice the tips you mentioned. Would have been nice to know about the purpose of the hole before I pulled the engine out! Anyway, such is life.

Back to the build:
Over the last couple of days, I've been spending time trying to figure out what size turbo I should start looking for. First I went about trying to figure out what volumetric efficiency I should be using.

Obviously it is known that 2 valve engines typically have a volumetric efficiency of around 80%. But I knew that volumetric efficiency changes with RPM. After doing quite a bit of searching around the internet I found a couple of references that indicated that an engine's torque curve closely follows the volumetric efficiency (Not2Fast: Turbo Glossary (http://www.not2fast.com/turbo/glossary/turbo_glossary.shtml#volumetric_efficiency)). So I went off to find some dyno curves of rover v8s. Below is what I found:

Rolling Thunder - TVRs on the Dyno (http://www.pistonheads.com/features/dyno.htm)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/339.jpg

Tuning the Rover V8 (http://www.mez.co.uk/TuningTheRoverV8-pt3.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/340.jpg

In the above two instances used maximum torque to be 4,000rpm and I made this the 81% point. And then scaled it from there according to the curve.

The problem I had with the above was that the volumetric efficiency went down with reducing RPM and this didn't make any sense to me. So I looked around some more and I found that torque reduces with RPM because of the geometry of the engine being tuned in certain ways, more heat being soaked into the block and the rate of combustion of the gas. That all made sense to me (info from Why Does the Torque Curve Drop Off at Low RPM in a Typical Piston Engine? (http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php't=244434))

So I looked around some more and then found this:
ScienceDirect.com - Fuel - Alternative fuel and gasoline in an SI engine: A comparative study of performance and emissions characteristics (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0016236109005341)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/341.jpg

The diagram above confirmed my suspicion that volumetric efficiency remained approximately constant at lower RPMs. So I then used the following as my Volumetric Efficiency Table:
1,500 2,000 2,500 3,000 3,500 4,000 4,500 5,000 5,500 6,000
81.00 81.00 81.00 81.00 81.00 81.00 79.16 77.32 73.64 68.00

I could be a little ambitious by using 81%, but anyway.

I used the excel sheet on this website (which is an excellent reference by the way):
Chevy Twin Turbo Project - Reading Compressor Maps and Selecting a turbo (http://www.mez.co.uk/turbo1.html)

And with some adjustment I got the following:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/342.jpg

The values were cross checked with this calculator, and seemed to be agreeing with each other:
Not2Fast: Turbo Calculator (http://www.not2fast.com/turbo/glossary/turbo_calc.shtml)

I then spent some time checking through what possible garett turbos could be used and below are the results:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/343.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/344.jpg

At first it looks like the GT1548 is the best candidate as the curve starts nice and early and the points are close to the peak efficiency. However, when you look at the efficiencies you find that it is a very low efficiency compressor 68-72%.

So perhaps the GT2052 52 Trim is the better option as its efficiencies are in the region of 74-77%.

It would be great if anyone can confirm i'm doing this the right way. Because I've never done any of this before so I could be doing something wrong somewhere.

Skiboy

26th December 2012, 10:16 PM

Thanks for comment re build - as you know a long run on these projects and hard to keep going with other time demands popping up. It is worth it when have something unique on the road.

Autos we learned by doing a swap on an manual ute after the gear box failed 1 week into ownership. Auto give great control up hill on rocks etc. Takes some more skill on down hill as not just stick in 1st and let it run. We put hand brake part on to get the torque converter to lock up - ours is all stock standard.

Note the issue on my build re installing the torque converter - also see the link to the technical post on testing if got it right.

We added an after market oil cooler (alloy matrix) to front of car as standard unit was not keeping the temp down enough in hot summer hard hilly 4x4ing. We put a temp sender in the line to monitor and just as well as would not have known we had a problem with the standard cooler not being enough.

Turbo on 3.9 with gas? I thought I read somewhere you had to build the engine differently if wanted to get max reliability from engine on gas - higher compression? Top hat liners to stop slipped cylinder liner - a common 3.9 problem.

Have you looked into that at all? Plan a rebuild on the 3.9? That is where I would put the $ not the auto - autos can replace fairly cheap.

SKiboy

MacMan

27th December 2012, 09:37 AM

Looking from the outside in, I'd also treat the engine as the main priority. Second hand Discos can be bought so cheaply these days that I reckon you'd have an endless supply of transmissions if you really thought you were going to stuff them but a good engine is for keeps.

stirlsilver

28th December 2012, 08:29 PM

We put hand brake part on to get the torque converter to lock up - ours is all stock standard.

Thanks for the tip! Which automatic transmission do you have and on what engine are you using it on? Also are you using the standard sized torque converter? And is this on the rangie or the stage 1 hybrid? Also how much have you used it?

Based on your info, I may stop considering doing the 4HP24 upgrade.

Turbo on 3.9 with gas? I thought I read somewhere you had to build the engine differently if wanted to get max reliability from engine on gas - higher compression? Top hat liners to stop slipped cylinder liner - a common 3.9 problem.

Have you looked into that at all? Plan a rebuild on the 3.9? That is where I would put the $ not the auto - autos can replace fairly cheap.

You are right, LPG can allow you to have a higher compression ratio. I actually started a thread here regarding the turbo sizing and implementation:
The V8 Owners Forum - :: View topic - Rover v8 3.9 Twin Turbo Build - Turbo Selection (http://www.v8forum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=86711)

Just to figure out the size that I need, and right now I'm trying to work out if I can get away with the boost I need and keep the engine at a compression ratio of 10.5:1.

With the engine rebuild, yes of course I'll do that along with getting everything balanced and matched. The liner slipping issue is something I hadn't thought about though. I haven't looked into it, but top hat liners sound expensive!

The reason I am making a fuss out of the Auto is they are a pain to put in and pull out (admittedly if you disconnect the torque converter, they are easier than a manual). So I figure I might as well get it all worked on while out and not worry about it later then.

Looking from the outside in, I'd also treat the engine as the main priority. Second hand Discos can be bought so cheaply these days that I reckon you'd have an endless supply of transmissions if you really thought you were going to stuff them but a good engine is for keeps.

This is a fair point, the engine will be a priority, but the gearbox upgrade is something I came across on the ashcroft website. But if that is overkill, I won't go that way. I've already been told that the basic overhaul price of a 4HP22 is $3,000!

stirlsilver

2nd January 2013, 11:11 PM

Below is the concept for the tray skinning I have come up with. I'll get the compartments with the 3 hatches made by a local toolbox shop I think.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/01/1484.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/01/1485.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/01/1486.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/01/1487.jpg

stirlsilver

2nd March 2013, 09:56 PM

I'm back everyone. After a 2 month break. What did I do? Well I had a short trip to the USA, and then after that I went on a 3 week holiday to India for a friends wedding and some sight seeing. If you are curious what india looks like, have a look here http:stirlsilver.smugmug.com.

Anyway, I got back last weekend and today I got back in to the workshop. I did a bit of a clean up and then got into making the small angled panel that will join the rear wall panel to the floor of the cabin. Cutting and folding sheet steel is not so easy without the right machinery. But I got there. Finally TIGed in place and the seams sealed with flexible brush-on sealant

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/1176.jpg

VladTepes

2nd March 2013, 11:57 PM

Love this build....

Skiboy

3rd March 2013, 04:49 PM

Pressure is on - your audience out here has be starved of good build content to read - so glad you are back and back on the job!
Skiboy

stirlsilver

10th March 2013, 10:27 PM

Love this build....

Pressure is on - your audience out here has be starved of good build content to read - so glad you are back and back on the job!
Skiboy

Thanks for the comments guys! It means a lot.

I was in the workshop again over the last couple of days, (and I will possibly go again tomorrow)

I bought a tow ball receiver and tongue from BTA towing (they are next door to where I work). This will be welded in soon.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/780.jpg

Cutting and starting to fold up the sheet that will make up the edges of the rear wall.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/781.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/782.jpg

Very happy with how everything is lining up. It's a bit of a challenge doing folding only using a mallet, some thick steel plate and a vice! It's a bit hard to see but the sheet is folded in two different directions to get the alignment to work with the existing floor.

Left:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/783.jpg

Right:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/784.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/785.jpg

The panel welded and seam sealed.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/786.jpg

And trial fitment:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/787.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/788.jpg

stirlsilver

11th March 2013, 10:58 PM

Right, public holiday work. I managed to get in about 9 hours today which is excellent.

I added a couple of extra studs to hold the rear panel more securely for the soon to be started work on the rear quarters. For anyone that is curious, this is how I did the studs.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/739.jpg

With the rear wall properly mounted I cut down the rear quarter so they would fit and then started marking where the future cuts will need to be to make the corners out of fibreglass. Happy with the way it is all starting to come together!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/740.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/741.jpg

I wanted some more time to think it over before doing the final cuts to the rear wall and the rear quarters, so I set to welding in the trailer hitch receiver. I certainly am not going to win any awards with this welding. But it will hold. I'll run an FEA model later to see if there is anything I need to worry about in terms of failing under load.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/742.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/743.jpg

And a quick trial with the winch roller fairlead, everything seems to be fitting correctly. My bet is I will be hung up every now and again on this towbar receiver, but i'm willing to sacrifice that for the ability to tow something.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/744.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/745.jpg

And this marks the end of the long weekend progress!

Skiboy

12th March 2013, 12:15 AM

Looking good - you must feel you can sense the finish line now - at least a little closer.

Are the door skins on the disco alloy or steel? Why not weld the corner if steel?

Are you going to put in any braces inside on the corners at the bottom? I would be worried the fibre glass will crack with flexing on the corner.

I am with you re the receiver - ideally not want it there BUT functionally want to be able to tow otherwise you are limited in use of the vehicle. That being the case you might want to weld a skid plate/triangle under the receiver back to the rear so that your chain tab does not take the brunt of any rocks sliding along the receiver.

The receiver will also protect your fairlead rollers from damage.

SKiboy

slug_burner

12th March 2013, 12:59 AM

To prevent hanging up on the receiver you should locate it above the fairlead and use a gooseneck with a bigger step/offset. That way you can turn the gooseneck upside down when not towing.

stirlsilver

17th March 2013, 01:16 AM

Are the door skins on the disco alloy or steel? Why not weld the corner if steel?

These door skins are alloy. So I have no choice but to use fibreglass to join them to the steel rear wall.

Are you going to put in any braces inside on the corners at the bottom? I would be worried the fibre glass will crack with flexing on the corner.

I have the exact same concern, i'm actually in the process of cutting up the pieces for the bracing of the corner to minimize the chance of cracks forming.

I am with you re the receiver - ideally not want it there BUT functionally want to be able to tow otherwise you are limited in use of the vehicle. That being the case you might want to weld a skid plate/triangle under the receiver back to the rear so that your chain tab does not take the brunt of any rocks sliding along the receiver.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll look into this!

To prevent hanging up on the receiver you should locate it above the fairlead and use a gooseneck with a bigger step/offset. That way you can turn the gooseneck upside down when not towing.

I suppose that could have been a way to go, but it would need to be a long way up to clear the winch body. That will mean the loads will be applied at a large distance from the centreline of the chassis rails which results in increased stresses. I'm happy with where it is. As it is, i'm raising the vehicle and I did shorten the chassis, if I get hung up, it will be because I was asking for it. Thanks for the tip though!

Progress today:
I dummied up a window to test if I can insert and remove it from the frame. I'm very happy to report that I can slide the panel in and out in-situ!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1217.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1218.jpg

More preparation work for joining the rear quarter to the rear wall. I've now profile cut both the rear quarter panel and rear wall. I'll be needing to foam and fibreglass this gap after I jog the free edge of the rear wall to make a landing for the fibreglass.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1219.jpg

stirlsilver

17th March 2013, 07:19 PM

A further update for this weekend.

I made the MkII of the jig to jog the free edges of the panels. And this time I added an extra feature to jog a curved profile.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/777.jpg

After hours and hours with a mallet, I finally finished both sides. Another step closer to getting this rear wall done.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/569.jpg

Next step is the reinforcement of the corners!

Skiboy

18th March 2013, 11:39 AM

This is really starting to look great - windows worked well and are going to look so factory people will think they wind up and down!

The indents on edges - nice technique - I will use that at some stage

Have you looking into industrial strength bonding agent to bond the braces? I think some of my orange ute panels are simply bonded on - in fact I am sure of it as saw the guy making another Ute and our wall looks like that is what they did. Otherwise you could use some sort of countersunk rivet then fill and paint over the top.

Are you indenting the edges of the door - ok if doing that then can rivet under the glass. I would be tempted to bend sections of corners that form the backing for the glass - will make it very strong and very unlikely to crack.

You are going to love wheeling this when done - I took my new Stage one/Rangie hybrid for first run in weekend - great - great to have rangie/disco chassis functionality without half the body in the way. Makes the hard work worth it.

Skiboy

Sitec

18th March 2013, 03:59 PM

Well, I can see the amount of man hours that have gone into this!! Truck cabs are always hard to get right, that's why I'm keeping quiet! What I did pick up on is that your tray design will need front guards that tie in with the same angles as the rears.... When I built my rear tray on the 130, I spent hours in the workshop trying to get it right... I think it works... Like mine, you have limited room for anything between the front of the rear wheel and the back of the cab. At least mine was all flat or at 90deg!! Keep up the good work

stirlsilver

7th April 2013, 07:24 PM

First - Just need to fix a problem with links being broken in my 283 post above. Below is the content with the links fixed:

Progress today (17th March):
I dummied up a window to test if I can insert and remove it from the frame. I'm very happy to report that I can slide the panel in and out in-situ!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1217.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1218.jpg

More preparation work for joining the rear quarter to the rear wall. I've now profile cut both the rear quarter panel and rear wall. I'll be needing to foam and fibreglass this gap after I jog the free edge of the rear wall to make a landing for the fibreglass.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1219.jpg

Have you looking into industrial strength bonding agent to bond the braces? I think some of my orange ute panels are simply bonded on - in fact I am sure of it as saw the guy making another Ute and our wall looks like that is what they did. Otherwise you could use some sort of countersunk rivet then fill and paint over the top.

Using countersunk rivets is a good idea, thanks for that. However, I think i will stick with bonding the rib to the aluminium to minimize galvanic corrosion.

Are you indenting the edges of the door - ok if doing that then can rivet under the glass. I would be tempted to bend sections of corners that form the backing for the glass - will make it very strong and very unlikely to crack.

It will be too hard to jog the free edge of the door because it is a curve, what I plan to to is run the glass the full length of the door so that I don't have to deal with blending the fibreglass into the aluminium. Between the fibreglass, the steel ribs and the polyeurathane foam, I think it will be strong enough. Besides, have a look below at the stiffening I've added this weekend.

Well, I can see the amount of man hours that have gone into this!! Truck cabs are always hard to get right, that's why I'm keeping quiet! What I did pick up on is that your tray design will need front guards that tie in with the same angles as the rears.... When I built my rear tray on the 130, I spent hours in the workshop trying to get it right... I think it works... Like mine, you have limited room for anything between the front of the rear wheel and the back of the cab. At least mine was all flat or at 90deg!! Keep up the good work

Thanks for the tip. I see what you mean, I do have the back wall of the body going at a bit of an angle, but in reality what I plan to do is simply cut down and re-shape some truck trailer wheel arches (which i've been given). Hopefully between an angle grinder and a hot air blower I will get the shape I need to suit my application!

Ok, for an update:

I was in the workshop again over this weekend. And the work that was done was to add in some sections that follow the profile of the rear corners closely. I was worries about 2 things. Cracking of the fibreglass due to flexing of the body, and also light impacts into the rear corners and the rear quarter panels. So the sections I have added below will have the rear wall tack welded and then be an intergral part of the corners through the foam and ribs that I will add later.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1220.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1221.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1222.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1223.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1224.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1225.jpg

Skiboy

8th April 2013, 10:09 AM

The bracing is a really nice fit to the contour and will provide good bracing - your bar work looks sronger than the original body would have been.

Coming along nicely.

stirlsilver

21st April 2013, 08:10 PM

Righto I'm back guys. I had to do a 10 day work trip over to Oman. I went to help some of our guys commission the bypass exhaust system on the turbines of this power station:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1548.jpg

Anyway, while I slowly work through some jetlag I spent some time in the workshop yesterday and today.

The reinforcement on the corners had 2 areas where it protruded past the skin. So I ground these areas back and welded in angled plates so they don't interfere with the fibreglassing that I will be doing soon. Admittedly the photos don't really show what I did... but the work is there!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/521.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/522.jpg

I also made templates for the plates that I need to patch up the butchery I did when I cut the back off the car. These parts are all ready cut out and ready to be welded in.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/523.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/524.jpg

In addition I cleaned up some of my ordinary welds that I did right at the start of this project using the TIG. No photos of this.

Finally, I screwed up a cut... This is what happens when you measure once only and the straight away cut. I now have a gap in a real PITA location that I need to fill to join the car floor to the rear wall... Such an irritating mistake, but not impossible to sort out.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/525.jpg

And that is the end of the weekend!

stirlsilver

28th April 2013, 08:49 PM

Hello all, time again for the weekly update on activities.

The main work done was mainly to start permanently attaching the rear wall onto the frame.

The rig to hold everything in place. Very sophisticated, as you can see.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/121.jpg

I quickly discovered that it was very difficult to weld the thin sheet steel to the frame. I was making quite a bit of a mess and ended up taking the grinder and removed the majority of my welding. I just left enough to hold everyting in place firmly, I'll epoxy the rest next weekend hopefully.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/122.jpg

I was able to stitch weld the rear wall onto the floor using the TIG welder. I'll run a strip of expoxy and fibreglass over this area also.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/123.jpg

Another sophisticated rig to hold the panels together while I do the plug welding.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/124.jpg

One thing I forgot to think about. The weld shrinkage effect on free edges on the flat panel.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/125.jpg

The solution to hold everything in place, square hollow section glued to the panel 30mm below the window edge. Even if I didn't get any movement in the panel from welding, I was going to do this anyway, I figured with the window in the panel would vibrate quite a bit since the panel was quite flimsy.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/126.jpg

The tack welds across the top, nothing pretty, the zinc paint makes welding with the TIG harder and being over head didn't help at all. But it will hold, besides later I'll be running some glue on the outside between the panel and gutter.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/127.jpg

The majority of the welding is done, all that remains is the lower sections near the corners and then patching the holes in the floor.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/128.jpg

Next step is fibreglassing over the various places on the rear wall and the connection between the rear wall and the floor. Then moving onto installing the sides.

crash

29th April 2013, 03:15 PM

[QUOTE=stirlsilver;1877124]A further update for this weekend.

I made the MkII of the jig to jog the free edges of the panels. And this time I added an extra feature to jog a curved profile.

You would not be able to show a picture of your jig you made to jog the edges of the panel?

crash

29th April 2013, 03:27 PM

A thought about joining the rear qurters (alloy) to the rear wall (steel) - instead of fiberglassing. The autobody business have a very expensive "glue" for joining metal - used for panel replacements. You could 1) glue a metal strip to the inside of the alloy then weld the rear panel to this 2) make a strip bent to a 90degree to follow the profile anf glue that to both the alloy panel and back wall.

stirlsilver

11th May 2013, 10:26 PM

You would not be able to show a picture of your jig you made to jog the edges of the panel?

Sure thing, This was the first one I used to make the straight edges:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/775.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/776.jpg

And this is the one I used to make the curved edges:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/777.jpg

A thought about joining the rear qurters (alloy) to the rear wall (steel) - instead of fiberglassing. The autobody business have a very expensive "glue" for joining metal - used for panel replacements. You could 1) glue a metal strip to the inside of the alloy then weld the rear panel to this 2) make a strip bent to a 90degree to follow the profile anf glue that to both the alloy panel and back wall.

Thanks for the suggestion crash. The only issue I have with this method is that I want to radius the corners, and that will be quite difficult to do since it would be curved on two axies. Besides, i'm more confident with the fibreglassing after having done the roof.

Progress from the last couple of weekends.

Plugged the holes by tack welding in the pieces I made:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/778.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/779.jpg

The first layer of fibreglass over the holes in the rear wall is on:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/780.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/781.jpg

And the fibreglass on the inside has been done:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/782.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/783.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/784.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/785.jpg

I'm off to Indonesia tomorrow so I've wrapped up the rear wall in an electric blanket since the nights are cold here in Melbourne and it looks like the next few days are going to be cool also. Here is hoping I don't come back to partially cured Epoxy when I'm back!!

stirlsilver

19th May 2013, 01:26 PM

A brief update:
The fibreglass cured quite nicely, and i've now added a second layer, again wrapped it in an electric blanket and waiting for it to cure.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/460.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/461.jpg

In the mean time, I think I have settled on the turbo I will use. I think I will go with the turbo used on the 1999-2005 Subaru WRX, which is the TD04L-13T. the nearest compressor map for this particular turbo is below:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/462.jpg

Given that the Aussie dollar is plunging against the US, i'll be looking to order the reconditioned turbos ASAP from a US company I've found.

stirlsilver

26th May 2013, 10:51 PM

Progress update:

Sanding back the second layer of fibreglass:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/186.jpg

Seam sealing... Everything! A second coat will be needed to cover a few spots I missed.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/187.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/188.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/189.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/190.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/191.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/192.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/193.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/194.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/195.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/196.jpg

Rear wall bogged and sanded:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/197.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/198.jpg

And primer painted! I didn't spend as much time getting everything properly blended since you basically aren't going to be able to see much of the rear wall whe the tray is fitted:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/199.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/200.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/201.jpg

stirlsilver

2nd June 2013, 07:41 PM

Got creative with some cardboard and scissors this weekend.

Another trial fitment of the right hand rear quarter panel. This time I cut out the shape of the window from MDF to make sure I can also insert it and remove it (and I can!):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/1461.jpg

I took measurements at 3" spacings and marked them out to weld in steel ribs to help guide me when fibreglassing. After I took the measurements from the car I went back to solidworks to work out what geometry I would use:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/1462.jpg

These are the curves I ended up settling on:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/1463.jpg

Then it was just a matter of putting my pre-school skills to use cutting paper and cardboard. Here you can see how I was forming up the cardboard templates:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/1464.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/1465.jpg

Then with the help of an angle grinder and some files, the steel versions were made:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/1466.jpg

When the tubs for the tray finish and I get the tray back to the workshop, I'll arrange for a preliminary engineering inspection of the car in its current state. Then I'll go ahead and start welding in these ribs after I am sure I no longer need access!

stirlsilver

5th June 2013, 06:54 PM

Check out what arrived in the post today. Two reconditioned TD04L-13T turbos :twisted:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/1298.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/1299.jpg

And I got a call today to say that my tray tubs are finished. Sorry about the blurry shot, I rushed to take a photo with my phone.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/1300.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/1301.jpg

stirlsilver

15th June 2013, 11:01 PM

Engineers have confirmed that they are coming to look at the car this Thursday! So today I was just doing some tidying up here and there to ensure all goes as smoothly as possible. Here is hoping nothing major comes up.

As part of the preparations for the inspection, the tray was fitted back onto the car. Also you can get a better look at the tubs I had made.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/854.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/855.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/856.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/857.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/858.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/859.jpg

disco2hse

16th June 2013, 08:07 AM

Good luck. Hope it all goes well.

stirlsilver

20th June 2013, 11:51 PM

Right, so Tom from Enkelman came to the workshop this afternoon to have a look at the car and overall it seems like everything is in order. He mentioned that the frame on my rear wall was a bit over the top with the reinforcement, but to be honest I would rather go over the top than be under. No issues with the tray frame either.

One of the major problems that came up is that for the rear quarter windows, I was thinking of using perspex or polycarbonate. Apparently as a general rule nothing other than automotive rated glass is permitted. Which will be an issue for me because I need the flexibility of perspex or polycarbonate if I ever do want to change the window in the future due to it getting damaged. Furthermore, getting a custom curved piece of glass probably won't be the cheapest exercise either. Tom is going to check to see if there are any loop holes which will alow me to avoid having to go to glass.

Another issue is, whether I proceed with getting the car engineered with 35" tyres, 50mm spring lift and a 50mm body lift. Anything above a 50mm tyre size increase or a 50mm spring/body lift calls for a lane change test to be done which is in the order of $1,500 to $2,500 per test. The advice is that in order to pass the car with my intended lift I would be looking at needing a very good set of shock absorbers and swaybars front and rear. I wouldn't have so much of a problem with fitting a disconnectable sway bar on the rear, but on the front... that could be tricky!

The final issue is whether my engine will need to be emissions tested after the fitment of the turbos despite the engine only running on LPG. The test would be in the order of $1,500 per test. There is a possibility that this may be able to be avoided given that the class of vehicle is changing from a passenger car to a commercial vehicle.

Aside from the 3 issues above, i've been given the green light to finish the body and the tray off and also do the modifications to raise the spring perches and the shock absorber mounts.

Skiboy

21st June 2013, 07:39 AM

Great news re engineer
I did think the frame a bit heavy too given the strength of the pressed lower wall you used but agree you don't want a weak point there

Rear quarter window - why not reconsider a flat steel panel with glass inserted as per your rear window? will be a lot cheaper and easier to fix - nothing to take apart. Could use current frame as the base to fit flat steel panel to

Remember to get glass tinted before you install - cheaper and easier that way
Ski boy

stirlsilver

22nd June 2013, 10:11 PM

Rear quarter window - why not reconsider a flat steel panel with glass inserted as per your rear window? will be a lot cheaper and easier to fix - nothing to take apart. Could use current frame as the base to fit flat steel panel to

I think that will look pretty ordinary. The side windows need to have a curve like the front windows for a factory look. I was having a read through the ADRs and I think based on them polycarbonate will be fine. I came across some information on the NZ transport site (Glazing - NZTA Vehicle Portal (http://vehicleinspection.nzta.govt.nz/virms/entry-certification/inspection-and-certification/vision/glazing)) – Tables & Images Tab, at the bottom “polycarbonate, meets requirements of ANSI Z26, must not be used for windscreens”

In ADR8/00 it says:
•Section 8.1.4 “Any glazing material other than glass used in a motor vehicle shall be of a kind that does not ****ter.” – The material I propose (Polycarbonate) would comply with this.
•Section 8.4.1 “All material used for external or internal vehicle glazing shall have properties at least equivalent to the requirements of one or more of the following:
…
8.4.1.5 American National Standard ANSI Z26.1 1980 "Safety Code for Safety Glazing Materials for Glazing Motor Vehicles Operating on Land Highways"."

I've sent the information off to the engineer to see if he accepts this justification, I think it is pretty clear. Otherwise i'm going to have to start buying some standards to prove it that way... Which I don't want to do.

On other business. Blackwoods had a trade fair today, tools were so cheap I just couldn't leave without buying a bunch of the Bosch professional gear
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/335.jpg

Also, I started correcting an alignment error on the tray frame (didn't quite follow the wall of the tub). I then spent the rest of the day trying to weld overhead and had a perpetual issue with porosity while stick welding. I eventually ground all the mess out and TIGed in a plate. Not the most productive day at all!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/336.jpg

I'm also starting to look into engine parts again. I'm thinking the following:
Engine bits:
ARP head stud kit
Main stud kit
Cam bearings
216 grind cam
Performance Timing gear set
Lifters
Crank bearings
Big end bearings
Piston rings
Gasket kit

I just found out that the 3.9L engine I have is a 8.13:1 CR, I can't believe that such a low compression ratio engine was used on a 1998 vehicle! Anyway, that's better for turbos :twisted:

For fuel and ignition control, i'm going to go with MegaSquirt 3, i'm in the process of figuring out all the bits i'll need for sequential ignition and fuel, any MS3 gurus? Particularly with Vapour LPG injection??

stirlsilver

23rd June 2013, 07:51 PM

Went for a bike ride today with a friend, so it didn't really leave any time to head in to the workshop. Instead I spent some time researching and drawing up for the ECU system. Still needs more work, but it's getting there

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/297.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/298.jpg

Homestar

23rd June 2013, 07:58 PM

Looking good - looks like you are using Tinycad for your drawings? I use it too.:)

stirlsilver

23rd June 2013, 10:55 PM

Looking good - looks like you are using Tinycad for your drawings? I use it too.:)

Well spotted! Took me a while to find a suitable piece of software to do the circuit diagrams in! It has everything I need and opensource!

Epic_Dragon

24th June 2013, 12:28 AM

Nick S

24th June 2013, 08:05 AM

Hi Stirlingsilver I used the MSII Extra with bank fired ignition on a 4.6 rather than sequential and no gas. Seemed to be the easiest solution for me. Its great getting rid of the Rover distributor and running EDIS so much more reliable and water resistant. LR4X4 have a great MS subforum but most of them run MS1
Nick

rovercare

27th June 2013, 07:40 AM

Nick S

27th June 2013, 12:38 PM

Bank spark and LPG = boom:D

Bank fired injectors (rather than sequential) not plugs therefore no bang even on LPG

rovercare

27th June 2013, 10:51 PM

Bank fired injectors (rather than sequential) not plugs therefore no bang even on LPG

I was pointing out where you said bank fired ignition, bank fired injection is not a problem on fuel, so long as LPG is self metered, waste spark systems on the other hand are no good for LPG

Nick S

27th June 2013, 10:59 PM

Well spotted, my mistake!

stirlsilver

29th June 2013, 07:39 PM

wow i have gone way past my bed time getting distracted with this thread!! incredible! made way better than a bought one so to speak haha , your welds are so neat as well! is going to be awesome when you are finished!

Thanks for the comment Epic! Though I have to say, my welding isn't great. I'm getting better but I am still very much at the standard of an amature welder!!

Right, I got some feedback from the engineers.

Glazing
Provided I can find a material that satisfies the requirements of the standards mentioned in ADR8/00 I can use polycarbonate. After doing some research I found that ANSI Z26.1 is the only standard which gives any form of hope to use polycarbonate in the rear quarter windows. So I purchased the standard and discovered that glazing is graded AS-1, AS-2, AS-3, AS-4, AS-5, and so on. Generally, the classifications detail the following:
AS-1 Anywhere
AS-2 Anywhere except windshield
AS-3 For rear and side windows rear of the driver only

The above 3 classifications can only be given to glass. From AS-4 and on plastics can start to be used and I have been able to locate Polycarbonate compliant to AS-4. But below is where it is allowed to be used:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/58.jpg

I'm going to try and convince the engineers to consider the rear small quarter windows as the location shown in the red box above given the car is being re-classified. We'll see how that goes.

Emissions Testing
Turns out that with my car being reclassified as a commercial vehicle on LPG ADR36 specifically excludes LPG so I am free to turbo charge the engine and all that is required is an idle emissions test. Whoo Hoo!

Lift Modifications
The car will need to be sent to a track and tested in lane change maeouvers to certify the lifting. I still have to think if I want to go this way or not. Maybe with adjustable shocks and a heavy duty rear sway bar I could get away with it? I really don't want to fit a front sway bar as the front axle is so busy with things all over the place.

MegaSquirt
I've basically got the system designed now, however I am really struggling to find ANY information on MS3's LPG temperature and pressure compensation. There is absolutely no information of people who have used MS3 to directly control vapour injectors anywhere! I know that MS3 'natively' supports doing this, but that's it!

Workshop Progress
I spent a few hours today & welded in the ribs for the C pillars:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/59.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/60.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/61.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/62.jpg

stirlsilver

29th June 2013, 08:36 PM

I just noticed... 50,000 views on this thread!!

Skiboy

30th June 2013, 09:22 AM

I just noticed... 50,000 views on this thread!!

That's because of your great work and there are heaps of cheap discos out there waiting for this treatment
Skiboy

rangieman

30th June 2013, 10:01 AM

Im more than one of those 50,000 veiwers i just cant get enough ;) Keep up the good work mate you have come a long way from the stage 1:D

stirlsilver

30th June 2013, 05:36 PM

Thanks for the comments guys!

I went to the local pick-a-part today to acquire a couple of throttle bodies.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/1540.jpg

They are from Holden 2.0L Vectras, 55mm diameter and cable driven. I'll have to take to them with a carbide bit to remove all the un-necessary stuff and block up the unused holes.

The reason I am not using the original throttle body on the engine is because two of them will be too big and the engine will be very hard to control at part throttle.

stirlsilver

7th July 2013, 07:49 PM

Progress over the weekend:

I welded in the final little pieces to hold the window frame to the body:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/1318.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/1319.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/1320.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/1321.jpg

And I also made up a couple of little pieces to support the top of the panel:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/1322.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/1323.jpg

The rear quarter panels are basically ready to be installed permanently. I just need to get some more 2 part foam and some materials to seal up all the gaps and i'm ready to go. Possibly next weekend it will happen!

Next items to do are raising the suspension perches up by 50mm on the front and rear. So I made a start on that by pulling off the front panels:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/1324.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/1325.jpg

And for a bit of a change of scenery. I ripped out the engine loom from the car and the ECU (does anyone want the ECU??):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/1326.jpg

Because I will need cable and connectors when I fit megasquirt I dismantled the whole loom for future use:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/1327.jpg

stirlsilver

8th July 2013, 10:36 PM

After all the digging through the standards and putting my case forward to the engineers I got the following response:

it looks like AS-4 will not comply for use where it's used as a primary visibility area, but as you mention earlier because your car is going to be an NA category commercial vehicle it is only required to have a minimum of 2 rear view mirrors mounted externally, one on each side. So as the centre mirror is not required by ADRs or the Vic road rules, we can argue that visibility through the rear windows is not required either, so that negates the need for the glazing to comply with the visibility requirements.

So yep you can go ahead and get your rear windows made up from the AS-4 compliant polycarbonate you mentioned, just make sure that if you're cutting it from sheet to keep the bit that has the markings on it or snap a photo of it.

:cool: Polycarbonate it is!

stirlsilver

14th July 2013, 05:36 PM

So I made a start on the left hand side.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/1012.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/1013.jpg

Not exactly sure how I would go about forming the mould for the foam, I figured the best way was to use Balsa wood, wet it, form it and then dry it in a curved shape.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/1014.jpg

And then it was just a matter of supergluing it in place. What made things difficult in this whole process was the fact that I tried to put cling wrap on the inside to prevent the foam sticking to the wood.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/1015.jpg

Hmm leakage on the inside.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/1016.jpg

When I pulled the mould off, I found that there were places where the cling wrap was tight so the foam never took the shape of the curved balsa. I'm going to have a to go around and add more foam so I have enough to sand back to the shape I need.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/1017.jpg

I found the foam made the panel really stiff, i'm quite happy with it, there is absolutely no flex in the free edge of the panel when you try to push it or pull it.

I would have done more work except due to an injury from stick sparring in martial arts, I need to give my hands a break so this is all I was able to get done. The next side should be much quicker!

stirlsilver

17th July 2013, 06:57 PM

The fun bits have started arriving
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/688.jpg

rangieman

17th July 2013, 07:14 PM

Yes im still watching your progress :cool:

stirlsilver

20th July 2013, 11:50 PM

More foam fun! I kept the whole thing simpler this time - Balsa wood, superglue, carboard and masking tape.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/530.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/531.jpg

Waiting for the foam to cure.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/532.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/533.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/534.jpg

And the results. Who would have thought that Polyurethane foam sticks to cardboard making it a PITA to remove?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/535.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/536.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/537.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/538.jpg

dullbird

21st July 2013, 12:43 PM

Looking good...I love getting your updates..each time you do something on the car it always looks like you get so far

stirlsilver

21st July 2013, 07:48 PM

I wanted a bit of a change of scenery today. This is what 90% of a 1996 discovery loom looks like:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/478.jpg

It did involve some surgery to get it all out:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/479.jpg

And I started stripping it all apart. I didn't get through all of it. Bottom line is I have loads of wire now. More than enough for what I need:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/480.jpg

Now i'm off to pack and head off to Vietnam tonight and Korea later in the week. I'll be back by friday so I should be able to get some more work done that weekend.

stirlsilver

27th July 2013, 10:54 PM

Right, I'm back from my quick dash through Vietnam and South Korea. So today I headed in to the workshop to have a bit of a play.

Firstly, I had to finish up what I started - Stripping down the looms. I don't think i'm going to be running out of cable any time soon!:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/262.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/263.jpg

Also the right hand side rear quarter has been mounted and welded in place:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/264.jpg

Tomorrow I should be making a start on giving the right hand side the foam treatment.

Epic_Dragon

27th July 2013, 11:05 PM

oh my god you are a madman hahaha im going to have nightmares about all those wires!!! haha! impressive! and its looking awesome!!!!!!

Skiboy

27th July 2013, 11:11 PM

I thought I was the only one cheap enough (Scott enough) to use cable from old wiring looms

Love it - my bumblebee's spots (front, top, rear), rear air con, radio, air horn, headlights, relays, and various other bits were all wired using old wiring loom

Also used the relays - watching the progress

stirlsilver

29th July 2013, 11:43 PM

If you think I'm crazy stripping the loom down... Just see what I did below...

Anyway, update in the workshop is looking good. Much neater in the prep of the other side:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/41.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/42.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/43.jpg

Also, some more go-fast bits arrived. The Megasquirt ECU is here, some breakout connectors during the testing phase, the Peak & Hold Board (which i'm a bit irritated is in pieces needing me to solder considering how much they cost!!) and a cam synchronizer from a Ford that I will machine and fit onto the bottom half of the Rover distributor assembly for the cam position signal.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/44.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/45.jpg

Just in case you were wondering. This is what a COLOSSAL waste of time looks like. I tried to do a 3D model of the turbo using photogrammetry. Too many points. Junking it and I'll try again later... After I get hold of some acetone to wipe the graffiti off the turbo.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/46.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/47.jpg
Tomorrow off to Indonesia again for 24 hours. Back on Thrusday but there won't be any play time in the workshop this weekend unfortunately.

Skiboy

30th July 2013, 10:02 AM

I take it that means you are building your own wiring loom for the ECU!

Well at least you will know how it works and how to repair it - do you have a good supply of anti frustration pills?

The cards with the temp wiring points are a great idea - we had to play with our wiring loom for the Haltec to fault find and it was a pain to test back to the plug and then into the ECU.

Very handy design.
Looking good.

stirlsilver

4th August 2013, 10:08 PM

I headed in to the workshop today with the objective of getting all the foam work finished. And it was achieved :)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/1444.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/1445.jpg

Next step, shaping the foam and preparing for fibreglass.

stirlsilver

10th August 2013, 07:22 PM

Things are starting to shape up! Left hand side is ready for fibreglass. The right hand side has a large dent in the door which I want to address first.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/1088.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/1089.jpg

stirlsilver

11th August 2013, 09:56 PM

And the fibreglassing begins. I've added the first layer of glass on, another 2 to go. I'm already dreading the amount of sanding that is coming my way.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/1025.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/1026.jpg

Dougal

17th August 2013, 10:27 PM

ARMYUGGLES

19th August 2013, 03:59 PM

this is coming along really well mate did you want a nice and pretty looking turbo been a metal polisher I could do it easy oh and other bits?

mistajoel

19th August 2013, 09:45 PM

@stirlsilver this is going pretty well mate! dragging on a bit though ;) I'm waiting till you finish and i'll drop mine around to get converted too thanks :cool:

__________________
I only bother worrying when it stops leaking oil...usually means it's run out..

'96 Disco 300tdi

stirlsilver

1st September 2013, 06:29 PM

If it'll help you out, I have some solidworks models of T25 turbos I can send you. They should be modifiable to the TD04 pretty easily.

By pretty easily I mean an evening with rulers, calipers and no other distractions.

Great build too.

Thanks for the offer Dougal! I've sent you a PM with my email address. I'll definitely have a look at the Model you have to see if it is something I can use.

this is coming along really well mate did you want a nice and pretty looking turbo been a metal polisher I could do it easy oh and other bits?

Thanks for the offer, but I'm going to have the tubos all wrapped up under insulation to keep the engine bay temperatures down. I'm thinking that I won't be having anything shiny on the car, I'm starting to think of painting it a matt green or grey to make it look industrial :twisted:

@stirlsilver this is going pretty well mate! dragging on a bit though ;) I'm waiting till you finish and i'll drop mine around to get converted too thanks :cool:

Thanks Mista... And I know what you mean, I am honestly trying to finish it up as quickly as possible! In the next few months I might start spending a day during the week on it. I am targetting to have it finished in January which is a hell of a stretch since I haven't even started on the engine yet!!

Ok for the update:
The left hand side has all the layers of glass down and i've started bogging and sanding it (not the latest photo)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/1674.jpg

Right hand side has the first layer of glass on
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/1675.jpg

I've started working on the suspension perches. My TIG welding skills are getting better :)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/1676.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/1677.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/1678.jpg

Ok, so now I should pack! I have a flight tonight at 11pm to Saudi Arabia and then I shoot across to Oman for a few days. I should be back on the 10th.

Dougal

2nd September 2013, 05:29 PM

Thanks for the offer Dougal! I've sent you a PM with my email address. I'll definitely have a look at the Model you have to see if it is something I can use.

You'd better send it again. Nothing came through.

stirlsilver

14th September 2013, 08:49 PM

Well it has been a productive week:
I have made one of the Peak & Hold boards for my LPG injectors. Because I needed a different resistance for the load sense resistor on the circuit to what was included, I made the resistor using some resistor wire, a multimeter and a current limiting power supply. Unfortunately 0.064 Ohm resistors aren't particularly common, so I didn't have much choice!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/985.jpg

Also, I set up an area to do my electronics work and I've started poking around with the MegaSquirt Settings to get familiar.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/986.jpg

In the workshop today, a colleague of mine (Taro) came along to help out, and ended up being a huge help.

The rear suspension perches are now fully welded with the 50mm extension.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/987.jpg

Taro working on the right side.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/988.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/989.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/990.jpg

Me working with the Epoxy & bog.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/991.jpg

Last layer of fibreglass applied to the right side.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/992.jpg

And the bogging coming along on the left.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/993.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/994.jpg

stirlsilver

16th September 2013, 10:48 PM

Mmm more go-fast bits have arrived.

Prins LPG evaporator and Keihin injectors plus a loom and pipes :twisted:

I ordered a complete kit less the computer since I plan to drive the injectors and interface direct with the sensors directly with megasquirt.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/861.jpg

stirlsilver

17th September 2013, 12:01 AM

Got straight into it - testing one of the Keihin injectors with the Peak & Hold board. Works fine, but that's without any pressure on it.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/859.jpg

disco2hse

17th September 2013, 06:21 AM

Got straight into it - testing one of the Keihin injectors with the Peak & Hold board. Works fine, but that's without any pressure on it.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/858.jpg (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/stirlsilver/media/Discovery%20Build/P1030117_zps3c1bdd22.jpg.html)

Honestly. Engineers, can't leave well alone :rolleyes:

slug_burner

17th September 2013, 06:42 PM

Honestly. Engineers, can't leave well alone :rolleyes:

because we can

stirlsilver

21st September 2013, 11:32 PM

A short update.

The design of the 50mm extender for the rear shock absorber is done. Using my usual camera trick.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/620.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/621.jpg

stirlsilver

23rd September 2013, 10:44 PM

A quick update:
Trialing the inverting circuit. the MSX card in the ECU outputs an earthing signal for the injectors, but the peak & hold board needs a 0 to 5V signal. So a 74HC04 IC is used to invert the signal. It works :)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/484.jpg

A few hours were spent again, but not much to see. Some welds were tidied up and primer paint added:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/485.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/486.jpg

And the right hand side had more bog added and sanded back:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/487.jpg

Does anyone know if I need to raise the spring perches on the front or if I only need to extend the shock cones?? I'm a little confused on this point.

Skiboy

23rd September 2013, 10:59 PM

What is the objective with the springs?
Skiboy

stirlsilver

23rd September 2013, 11:33 PM

What is the objective with the springs?
Skiboy

To prevent them disengaging from the perches when the axle is in the full down position. I don't want to use dislocation cones. But if the front can't flex that far, then it doesn't need the longer springs, that's what I don't know.

Skiboy

24th September 2013, 07:42 AM

Front bush binding on radius arms will be the limiter - we run front cones but not needed as never seen it drop that far.

So no unless you but say the new superior engineering radius arms in - only then wil you get more movement

Rear not have much to limit it so more of an issue
Skiboy

Psimpson7

24th September 2013, 07:58 AM

My Defender will happily dislocate the front springs on a highlift jack on both sides, probably by between 30 and 40mm. If you have long enough shocks there will be situations where the springs will come out of their seats.

This probably wont be at full flex (hard up one side, hard down the other) as, as skiboy has commented the binding will stop it getting enough movement, but if you get one side to have full droop and one side only slightly compressed it may.

Nice work with the project. Following with interest.

Skiboy

24th September 2013, 08:52 AM

Still won't dislocate much (ie tiny amount) and due to the shorter spring and angles unlikely to dislocate to the point where they won't relocate.

In any event a small cone would be a much easier peace of mind preventative than cutting towers.

We comped our 2 inch lifted rangie ute (same set up as disco under the skin) and had small cones in the front - no wear signs of them ever dislocating at all.

Prior to the cones never had a problem - they are there simply because we had them

EDIT - Re rear - if worried about dislocation then lifting the seat only part of the solution - the outside edge of your lifted seats is where the likely problem will come if they do lift then will get caught on the lip of the outside edge - what no make that 50mm longer - then you have a deeper "cup" at the top where the spring is located - that way the spring could dislocate up to 50 mm and still slip back into the cup

Skiboy

stirlsilver

26th September 2013, 12:18 AM

Thanks for the input guys. It's appreciated.

Skiboy - I contacted LRA regarding lifting the rear spring perches and they recommended I go that way to avoid spring dislocation problem and maintaining load on the axle even at maximum flex. You can see the way they do it in the last 3 photos of this page:
Fire Storm LS3-6L80E (http://www.lrautomotive.com.au/contents/en-us/d4903_Current_Projects_03.html)

Right, on an update. I finished my very simple injector inverter circuit and tested it on the ECU. Works a charm:)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/359.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/360.jpg

Now I just need to wait for those expensive resistors to come in from element14 for the Peak & Hold boards. The little coils I made from resistor wire seem to be driving the IC nuts due to the inductance they have. Or at least that is what I hope the problem is!

stirlsilver

29th September 2013, 06:59 PM

On the home stretch now boys & girls! Well, with the body at least...

Left side spray puttied:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/131.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/132.jpg

Right side spray puttied:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/133.jpg

Left side sanded back:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/134.jpg

The left side is now essentially ready for primer paint. And the right isn't far behind.

Also, i've ordered the white tiger 50mm body lift kit, that should be coming in this week.

dullbird

29th September 2013, 07:16 PM

I'm sooo excited Stirl its all taking shape...good on you for sticking at it too..

This has to be my most favourite build thread:)

mrapocalypse

2nd October 2013, 10:58 AM

Looks like a bought one.

Excellent work.

stirlsilver

2nd October 2013, 11:19 PM

Thanks for the comments dullbird & apocalypse :)

The reason why I'm starting to up the ante is because I have set the target to move back to Queensland at the beginning of next year. And transporting a half finished car would be very expensive. Given the number of weekends left between now and then, I think I may have to shelve the turbos for the moment and just get the car running & engineered naturally aspirated. And then do the turbo modification in 2014. Let's see how things pan out.

On another note. the 50mm White Tiger lift kit arrived today :twisted: Although i'm not going to be using all the bits...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/1224.jpg

dullbird

2nd October 2013, 11:26 PM

is this a 50mm body lift

stirlsilver

7th October 2013, 01:05 AM

is this a 50mm body lift
It certainly is.

I hit saturday hard. Did a solid 13 hours in the workshop.

Left rear quarter finished & primer painted
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/1131.jpg

Right rear quareter finished & primer painted
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/1132.jpg

The 50mm body lift kit is 70% fitted (need to tighten it all up and install the floor supports & gearbox extension, break line extensions, etc.)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/1133.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/1134.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/1135.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/1136.jpg

One thing i am confused about is that the kit gets you to remove the top bolts the panhard bracket and loosen the second one from the top and space out the bracket by 6mm to install the capping piece and then install a spacing washer for the bolt that was loosened

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/1137.jpg

But I couldn't space the bracket out without loosening the bolt that connects this bracket to the bracket which is attached to the neck of the steering box.

As a result i've ended up with a gap.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/1138.jpg

Does anyone have any ideas or have experience in fitting this lift kit? Do I just tighten up the nut and pull the bracket in?? Surely that can't be right.

Skiboy

8th October 2013, 09:35 AM

I thought from memory the two holes in the bracket bolted to the steering box were slotted - so undo the nuts and shift the bracket to take up the gap and re-tighten

SKiboy

Grimace

8th October 2013, 08:38 PM

I thought from memory the two holes in the bracket bolted to the steering box were slotted - so undo the nuts and shift the bracket to take up the gap and re-tighten

SKiboy

As Skiboy has mentioned, there is two bolts as shown in the position of the yellow arrows I have added to your previous image (roughly).
You need to slacken these off, tension the bolt on the outside of the chassis rail then re tighten.

p.s. Very nice project by the way.

Skiboy

9th October 2013, 10:34 AM

As Skiboy has mentioned, there is two bolts as shown in the position of the yellow arrows I have added to your previous image (roughly).
You need to slacken these off, tension the bolt on the outside of the chassis rail then re tighten.

p.s. Very nice project by the way.
Have you been following this build up too Grimace?

I only remembered the slots vaguely from when I did that drop arm earlier this year.
Skiboy

Grimace

9th October 2013, 02:21 PM

Have you been following this build up too Grimace?

I only remembered the slots vaguely from when I did that drop arm earlier this year.
Skiboy

I pop in from time to time :D

stirlsilver

21st October 2013, 12:16 AM

Thanks for the info on that bracket guys, it did the job nicely.

Progress Update:
Updated the SolidWorks model to incorporate the latest design of the tray wall.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/438.jpg

The tray wall was then added.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/439.jpg

I was given a set of Semi Trailer mud guards, which were HUUGE. So I set about reshaping them down to the size I needed using a couple of the tyres, rachet straps and the hot air gun.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/440.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/441.jpg

Thankfully the 1.5 hours of work paid off.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/442.jpg

Starting the process of trial fitment. And yes they will be cut down, they won't be left sticking out like this.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/443.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/444.jpg

Next step is to cut the guards down to the size I need and fabricate the backets to hold it in place. Then I'll be ready to pain the tray frame!!

33chinacars

21st October 2013, 01:26 AM

Just a thought but will you have any protection for the rear window.

Skiboy

21st October 2013, 12:13 PM

Ditto re rear window also thanks for pics on re shaping truck guards I have to do this too and was looking for ideas

Are the dark vertical lines in the pics where you did the heating? Any tips on technique?

Skiboy

stirlsilver

21st October 2013, 10:46 PM

Just a thought but will you have any protection for the rear window.

Ditto re rear window

I don't really intend to be carrying any large loads on the tray, obviously you do have a point the window is at risk. What I will be doing is making some attachment point to fit a canopy over the tray. Looking back through the records, I was thinking something along these lines:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/325.jpg

Are the dark vertical lines in the pics where you did the heating? Any tips on technique?

Yes, the vertical lines are where I did the heating, I had the gun set to 410degC and went back and forth until I saw the plastic change colour.

If you can, cut the guard to the width you need before starting the reshaping process.Or as a mininimum cut off the lip on one side because it is impossible to heat when it is sitting on the ground.

In terms of the order of doing things I suggest the following:

Tighten the straps to pull the guard tightly onto the tyres.
The lips on the guard will buckle outward, use the hot air gun over the lip, warm it up so that it is soft and then push it down evenly to remove it.
Heat the guard in vertical strips working from the middle outwards.
Return back to the lip and repeat by softening it again and pressing any remaining buckles out.
Allow to cool completely and then release the straps.

I had to shift the straps around while doing the vertical strips so that I wouldn't burn them with the hot air gun.

I hope this helps!

33chinacars

22nd October 2013, 01:32 AM

Sounds like you have it all sorted. Good work.

Gary

slug_burner

22nd October 2013, 08:04 PM

I don't really intend to be carrying any large loads on the tray, obviously you do have a point the window is at risk. What I will be doing is making some attachment point to fit a canopy over the tray. Looking back through the records, I was thinking something along these lines:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/318.jpg (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/stirlsilver/media/Discovery%20Build/110428TrayUpdate4.jpg.html)

Yes, the vertical lines are where I did the heating, I had the gun set to 410degC and went back and forth until I saw the plastic change colour.

If you can, cut the guard to the width you need before starting the reshaping process.Or as a mininimum cut off the lip on one side because it is impossible to heat when it is sitting on the ground.

In terms of the order of doing things I suggest the following:

Tighten the straps to pull the guard tightly onto the tyres.
The lips on the guard will buckle outward, use the hot air gun over the lip, warm it up so that it is soft and then push it down evenly to remove it.
Heat the guard in vertical strips working from the middle outwards.
Return back to the lip and repeat by softening it again and pressing any remaining buckles out.
Allow to cool completely and then release the straps.

I had to shift the straps around while doing the vertical strips so that I wouldn't burn them with the hot air gun.

I hope this helps!

Make a higher headboard, but a piece of mesh in to safeguard the rear window and you will have something to attach your canopy as well.

stirlsilver

27th October 2013, 10:45 PM

Make a higher headboard, but a piece of mesh in to safeguard the rear window and you will have something to attach your canopy as well.

Thanks for the input, I'll keep it in mind:)

A short update, I've been a bit under the weather this weekend.

The rear shock extension plates are ready. Now I need to weld them together with some SHS steel.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/109.jpg

stirlsilver

7th November 2013, 11:45 PM

I think I've settled on the mounting system of the guards, a few pieces of 25mm SHS should do the trick.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/1323.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/1324.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/1325.jpg

Also, I've purchased the tail lights I'm going to be using. You might spot where I plan to place them in the image above.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/1326.jpg

stirlsilver

10th November 2013, 10:26 PM

Hello again everyone. Time again for my usual update.

First off. I bought Wayne's 1972 range rover. He no longer wanted it and it has quite a number of parts which were going to help my build. Parts such as:
High mount winch
Bull bar
Front Locker
Rear Locker
Toughened Axles front & rear
Slotted & rotated swivels
5 off 35"x10.5 Simex Centipedes on flipped rover steel rims
5 off 33"x10.5 BFG Mud terrains
3.9L serpentine V8
5 speed borg warner gearbox on a LT95 transfer case (I'm toying with installing this instead of using a ZF auto)
LPG system (I'm toying with fitting a 3rd LPG tank for even more capacity)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/1060.jpg

I started dummying up the bracket that will hold the guard in position. This is what it looks like with the axle on the bump stops:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/1061.jpg

And this is what it looks like at the expected ride height:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/1062.jpg

Comparison between the tyres I bought and the ones that came with the rangie. The 35" Simex tyres are actually a bit taller than the 35" Silvertones:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/1063.jpg

I think I will go with the Simex tyres since they are on bullet-proof rims which even have valve guards fitted on them.

I managed to basically finish and tack weld the whole left hand side and trial fit the guard. I still need to trim back the guard a bit more and also make it a bit narrower, but it is getting close to the final fit. Keep in mind the car is back sitting on the bump stops here.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/1064.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/1065.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/1066.jpg

That's it for this weekend. I'll get on to the right hand side next weekend and then weld everything up. That will essentially be the completion of the tray frame and it will then be off for painting and getting the aluminium surfacing done.

stirlsilver

10th November 2013, 10:50 PM

By the way, if anyone has any ideas on how to achieve the mud guards not fouling with the tyres as full flex and avoiding the silly guards up in the air look, let me know your thoughts.

disco_ute

10th November 2013, 10:58 PM

When I set mine up I put a 45 x 90mm block on top of the tyre while sitting on the bump stops. have seen signs of slight rubbing after some extreme flex but never been a real issue. Unfortunately they flex a lot so you will end up with a large gap.

Mick

Sent from my GT-N7105 using AULRO mobile app

stirlsilver

10th November 2013, 11:24 PM

disco_ute

10th November 2013, 11:33 PM

45mm and 35 simex

Sent from my GT-N7105 using AULRO mobile app

Sparksdisco

12th November 2013, 12:55 AM

Might be a stupid idea but what about mounting them off the axle??

slug_burner

13th November 2013, 12:48 AM

Stirlsilver,

I think you need to reduce the space between tyre and guard when on the bump stops, the 4x2 suggested might do the trick. Secondly when using circles, as per tyre and guard, you need for them to be concentric for them to appeal to the eye, which is what I would aim for at normal ride height. Alternatively you would need to reshape the guard so it is not round in shape by trailing the rear end, cutting the guard and introducing a new section for the rear end of the guard or go to some bent sheet metal keeping the sections straight so you don't have the issues of getting the circles to be concentric. Probably more work than you had intended but you could also consider fiberglass using the plastic guards to help you build the mould, that way you could bend the plastic without having to worry about making the bends permanent and the resin and glass will hold the shape in the long run.

Use a graphics package to try shapes on an edited photograph after looking at some photos of how stylists have shaped guards in cars you like the look of.

Good luck.

stirlsilver

16th November 2013, 11:33 PM

Might be a stupid idea but what about mounting them off the axle??

I had thought about this, but I was certain whatever I fitted would rattle to bits when you hit corrugations! The vibration levels on an axle are huge.

Stirlsilver,

I think you need to reduce the space between tyre and guard when on the bump stops, the 4x2 suggested might do the trick. Secondly when using circles, as per tyre and guard, you need for them to be concentric for them to appeal to the eye, which is what I would aim for at normal ride height. Alternatively you would need to reshape the guard so it is not round in shape by trailing the rear end, cutting the guard and introducing a new section for the rear end of the guard or go to some bent sheet metal keeping the sections straight so you don't have the issues of getting the circles to be concentric. Probably more work than you had intended but you could also consider fiberglass using the plastic guards to help you build the mould, that way you could bend the plastic without having to worry about making the bends permanent and the resin and glass will hold the shape in the long run.

Use a graphics package to try shapes on an edited photograph after looking at some photos of how stylists have shaped guards in cars you like the look of.

Good luck.

I completely agree with you on your points and I appreciate the input. However, I am running out of time on the build and I need to get it up and running. While concentric circles is the best outcome I can't really get that to work with the parts I have.

I spent time with Solidworks again and more time in the workshop and I have finally settled on this arrangement.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/624.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/625.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/626.jpg

You might notice I simplified the brackets that hold the guards in place. I was going overboard with the previous design. I didn't want to attach the front part of the guard to the body because I figure it will lead to vibration of the panels and more noise. So I settled with placing some simple tabs off the outrigger which works quite well.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/627.jpg

slug_burner

17th November 2013, 01:38 AM

That looks ok. Is it an oval shape now?

stirlsilver

17th November 2013, 11:23 PM

That looks ok. Is it an oval shape now?

They are slightly ovaled but not too noticeably.

I did some other minor modifications to the mounting brackets to the guards (I removed the piece that came down from the underside of the tray) and I also designed the battery compartment.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/597.jpg

The right hand side guard is almost finished, I just need to add one more tab for the front.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/598.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/599.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/600.jpg

And I made a start on the battery holder. The plan is to use two of these batteries, one on either side of the tray.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/601.jpg

stirlsilver

23rd November 2013, 11:38 PM

The guards are finally finished & mounted! Also the battery holders are now in place, it's going to be a bit tight to get the cables up to the battery terminals, but I'll work something out when I get to that point.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/251.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/252.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/253.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/254.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/255.jpg

Off to Korea on Monday and I'll be away for the week, so no playing in the workshop next weekend.

rangieman

24th November 2013, 10:05 AM

Well done mate looking good . Your welding has realy improved;)

Skiboy

24th November 2013, 03:33 PM

Did you consider bracing the battery trays into the chassis vertical on the inner side of the trays?

Had to tell from pics just how well braced they are?
Getting close!
Skiboy

stirlsilver

8th December 2013, 11:46 PM

Did you consider bracing the battery trays into the chassis vertical on the inner side of the trays?

Had to tell from pics just how well braced they are?
Getting close!

It would be easy add a horizontal stiffener like you suggest but the trays are very very stiff with the 3 vertical flat bars I added so I think I'll leave the design as is. Thanks for the suggestion though!

Another brief update, I wasn't able to do too much because I was only able to spend about 6 hours in the workshop this weekend.

I drilled and welded in a sleeve into the corners of the tray to allow me to add a frame over the tray for a canopy. The one at the back will need to be on top of the aluminium box. Actually as I type this I think I might add another sleeve half way along the tray, it could be useful down the line.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/710.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/711.jpg

Started work on pulling off the axle from the wrecked discovery, I'm having to go to all this effort to cut off the sway bar brackets on the axles. I was hoping I could cut them off with the axle on the car, but that wasn't possible.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/712.jpg

Anyone for a game of Jenga?
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/713.jpg

Skiboy

9th December 2013, 09:23 AM

Sleeve for a canopy a great idea.

You have probably though about this - are you considering if you want this to have an extension out the back (soft top maybe) - we find we use the tray to make lunch on when out 4x4ing and then as a base for cooking on at night.

I made up a removable tarp canopy which sits on poles (gal water pipe) and extended out the back - this is great to stand under to make lunch on sunny days and also hand shade when cooking - also very handing when raining so can cook etc on a solid base.

I find the height of the tray much better than any camp table to work on and much sturdier.

Here is my gal pole tarp with spreader bar simple design - idea was quick set up for shade/rain.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/701.jpg (http://s835.photobucket.com/user/austskiboy/media/Makingcanopy9_zpsd92adaa0.jpg.html)

stirlsilver

15th December 2013, 11:06 PM

You have probably though about this - are you considering if you want this to have an extension out the back (soft top maybe)

Thanks for the suggestion. I hadn't thought about making an awning extension. I'll definitely keep it in mind when it comes to designing that part!

This weekend is probably one of where I have worked the hardest. Mainly because there was a lot of physical work involved.

I pulled out the front diff and cut off the sway bar brackets:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/399.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/400.jpg

A lot of effort for these two measly pieces of steel:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/401.jpg

I took the 9" grinder to the discovery. This is how far I got after 8 hours of work on Saturday:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/402.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/403.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/404.jpg

Then another 6 hours of work on Sunday. I forgot to take a photo but I did manage to remove the ZF transmission and it is now in the workshop. I'll send it off for a rebuild in January:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/405.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/406.jpg

The bits I came across that I figured were worth selling I posted on ebay:
s2shamro on eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/usr/s2shamro)

stirlsilver

16th December 2013, 12:25 AM

I've also started work on a rough model for the engine. It's going to be necessary to work out the placement of the turbos and tubing.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/398.jpg

stirlsilver

18th December 2013, 12:35 AM

I think I'm now done with the engine & turbo models. They aren't pretty but at least they show where all the important bits are :)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/299.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/300.jpg

Dougal

18th December 2013, 07:31 AM

Did the garrett turbo models I sent through not work?

stirlsilver

18th December 2013, 09:31 AM

Did the garrett turbo models I sent through not work?

The message never came through. Do you think you can try again?

Dougal

18th December 2013, 12:58 PM

The message never came through. Do you think you can try again?

Sent again now to your hotmail address. About 8.6mb total (6.3mb zipped files).

stirlsilver

23rd December 2013, 12:55 AM

Another productive weekend. The old white disco is now completely chopped up and waiting for a scrap bin to be organized.

The rear diff of the old white disco was taken to with a die grinder to retrieve the sway bar brackets:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/202.jpg

Rear shock extenders were welded up:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/203.jpg

Problem encountered when fitting the shock extender. What were the chances!:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/204.jpg

The solution, yes, I did weld both sides of the stud:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/205.jpg

While I had the naked chassis from the white disco I took all the measurements I needed and completed the model of the chassis I started in... 2011 (geez i'm taking my time with this build huh?!?):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/206.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/207.jpg

Some dimensions of the inside of the engine bay were taken and now the fun begins. Trying to work out turbo placement... Going to be a bit tricky:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/208.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/209.jpg

Merry Christmas everyone!

stirlsilver

6th January 2014, 12:09 AM

I hope everyone enjoyed the Christmas & New Year period! I'm straight back into it:

Bullbar pulled off the range rover:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1385.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1386.jpg

The necessary adaptations were done to allow the bullbar to mount with the body lift kit:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1387.jpg

The bullbar is now ready to be sent off for a blasting and powder coating along with the tray frame.

Some interior work was done. Seats & carpet were pulled out to deal with any rust. Considering the car is 20 years old it is in surprisingly good condition with only some minor rust present in the passenger foot well:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1388.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1389.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1390.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1391.jpg

There were some small remaining gaps on the body which I hadn't filled when I did the bulk of the work earlier, so I got that over and done with:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1392.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1393.jpg

The foam flowed into all the places I wanted :):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1394.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1395.jpg

I was concerned that at the bottom of the rear quarter panel (ex rear door), moisture would accumulate and cause the steel to rust out. So I filled these areas with foam:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1396.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1397.jpg

The loom that will run to the rear of the car was sorted and the cables identified. I also left all the un-needed cables that ran to the rear door in as spare wires. I may need them later!:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1398.jpg

With the help of taking one of the turbos into the workshop and sitting it in the car, I finally settled on the final placement of the turbos:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1399.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1400.jpg

I've also started working on designing the exhaust manifold. I think I will need to use 1" schedule 40 pipe. 1 1/4" was simply way too big and would be very difficult to do a 4 to 1 transition. Below shows the 1" schedule 40 pipe against the exhaust flange and turbo flange:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1401.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1402.jpg

slug_burner

6th January 2014, 01:39 AM

The 1" pipe looks too small. Turbo diesels use a log manifold. Is there a reason why you would not do the same? That way you don't have to do the header design of a four into one, which is used with N/A extractors to get scavenging happening.

Corgie Carrier

6th January 2014, 10:17 PM

QUOTE I was concerned that at the bottom of the rear quarter panel (ex rear door), moisture would accumulate and cause the steel to rust out. So I filled these areas with foam: QUOTE

I was wondering what to do about those two areas in my rangie ute project. That's a good idea except I would be worried the foam might hold moisture if it gets wet?

Did you rust proof the area before you put the foam in?
Are you gonna fibreglass over the top to stop water ingress?
Is that the cheap foam in a can or the stuff you mix together just before use?

Your build is great, I have been following for a while now. Can't wait to finish my disco and get onto the ute project.

Looks like Wayne's rangie is coming in handy for parts. He told me ages ago that he would never sell it, what changed his mind?

Neale

stirlsilver

6th January 2014, 11:38 PM

I was wondering what to do about those two areas in my rangie ute project. That's a good idea except I would be worried the foam might hold moisture if it gets wet?

Did you rust proof the area before you put the foam in?
Are you gonna fibreglass over the top to stop water ingress?
Is that the cheap foam in a can or the stuff you mix together just before use?

The foam I used is a 2 part Polyurethane foam which I purchased from Dalchem, it is excellent stuff, the foam sets hard and it is closed cell so it doesn't absorb moisture. Of course it is possible for water to seep down in areas where the foam hasn't bonded perfectly. What I plan to do is brush on seam sealer over the top of the foam to make sure it is all nice and water tight. The seam sealer stays flexible and it is VERY sticky.

Your build is great, I have been following for a while now. Can't wait to finish my disco and get onto the ute project.

Thank you very much Neale, I appreciate the compliment. Good luck when you start yours!! It certainly is a MUCH longer process then I could have ever imagined, but then again I'm trying not to let myself be sloppy.

Looks like Wayne's rangie is coming in handy for parts. He told me ages ago that he would never sell it, what changed his mind?

Yes, it is very handy for parts, he wasn't using it anymore and wanted to get out of four wheel drives/ Land Rover's completely. He's now enjoying going nuts on Methanol RC cars.

The 1" pipe looks too small. Turbo diesels use a log manifold. Is there a reason why you would not do the same? That way you don't have to do the header design of a four into one, which is used with N/A extractors to get scavenging happening.

Thanks for the feedback slug. You are absolutely right, my background is Aeronautical Engineering so I was going a little crazy from a flow perspective and then I also remembered that one cylinder fires at a time so you don't really need 4 pipes to handle the exhaust gas. With some small transitions the 1 1/4" pipe fits quite nicely.

Here is the left hand manifold done, I should be able to make it entirely from long radius and short radius butt weld fittings from Onesteel which is a bonus, I have also had to add 2 studs to the flange since two of these locations aren't accessible to insert the bolts. Any more comments welcome!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1349.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1350.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1351.jpg

slug_burner

7th January 2014, 12:22 AM

That looks good.

I don't know how much of a difference it makes that diesels rev out to a bit more than 4000 rpm. That looks fancier than most log manifolds made up of schedule steam pipe.

stirlsilver

8th January 2014, 12:21 AM

Right hand manifold done in a similar fashion:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1300.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1301.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1302.jpg

stirlsilver

13th January 2014, 12:38 AM

Another productive weekend :)

The cables that are to run onto the tray were bundled together into the new looms and run out the back of the cabin:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1052.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1053.jpg

I assembled the engine 'test bed' basically I like to think of it as a creative way to recycle an unneeded chassis from a 96 Discovery! I used the opportunity to get in some badly needed practice on stick welding. And the results are that I really need to get a lot more practice in because I am shocking with a stick welder!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1054.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1055.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1056.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1057.jpg

On Sunday I hit the Range Rover hard and got the engine out and mounted on my test bed in 8 hours:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1058.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1059.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1060.jpg

Pretty happy with the progress :)

stirlsilver

18th January 2014, 04:48 PM

A quick update for this weekend.

Rear support for the engine was made up. Nothing pretty at all, I re-used some more bits from the discovery I cut up:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/687.jpg

Exhaust manifolds were fitted:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/688.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/689.jpg

That's all I could squeeze in. Now I'm off to a wedding and then Japan in the morning for a business trip. More progress when I'm back in a week.

Dougal

26th January 2014, 08:07 PM

If you haven't decided on an intercooler yet. The Cosworth RS500 aftermarket parts have dimensions that are looking very good:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

All over ebay.

stirlsilver

27th January 2014, 07:57 PM

If you haven't decided on an intercooler yet. The Cosworth RS500 aftermarket parts have dimensions that are looking very good

Thanks for the suggestion Doug, I appreciate it. I've actually been emailing ARE in Brendale QLD about the intercoolers. I asked them about what options I have available to weld two cores on to either side of the plenum. Below was the response:

There is not a perfect pair of intercoolers that will fit in your vehicle. I did some quick computer modeling & with a 3.9 L engine, 4500 rpm & 12psi boost you have 563cfm & 26 kw (1509btu) of heat to get rid of to work at good efficiency.
With 2 of 255 x 300long x 55mm cores the air speed through the core is 64.2 kph for 0.017 secs. 400mm long gives the same speed for 0.022 secs.
With 2 of 255 x 300 x 73mm cores the air speed is 46.7 kph for 0.023 secs.
As a very generalized, average, ball park figures 70 kph for 0.025 secs. id good. You need a 73mm core or 300x300x56mm core.

So I need to think if I want to go to all the hassle to fit in a thicker or wider core. Because the way the plenum is at the moment, I think I only have an area of 60mm x 255mm to weld on a core. I could go all out and get a new plenum welded up, but that is going to add more $$ and I'm not sure how much more performance going from a 255 x 55mm to 255 x 73mm core will add? I need to think about it some more.

Anyway, as for actual progress:

The engine setup was completed.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/1035.jpg (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/stirlsilver/media/Discovery%20Build/P1030617_zpse6408c29.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/191.jpg (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/stirlsilver/media/Discovery%20Build/P1030616_zpsd32d512e.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/192.jpg (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/stirlsilver/media/Discovery%20Build/P1030615_zps0aa45baf.jpg.html)

The ECU was wired up to the EDIS module and the various sensors.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/193.jpg (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/stirlsilver/media/Discovery%20Build/P1030620_zpsa9e938f4.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/194.jpg (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/stirlsilver/media/Discovery%20Build/P1030619_zps67b7793d.jpg.html)

And the engine was started. It's a bit different for me to be in the shot for a change. Dexter was giving me a hand which was very much appreciated!
Rover V8 first start on test rig - YouTube (http://youtu.be/bSlEDbmYOK8)

Dougal

28th January 2014, 07:27 AM

Thanks for the suggestion Doug, I appreciate it. I've actually been emailing ARE in Brendale QLD about the intercoolers. I asked them about what options I have available to weld two cores on to either side of the plenum. Below was the response:

There is not a perfect pair of intercoolers that will fit in your vehicle. I did some quick computer modeling & with a 3.9 L engine, 4500 rpm & 12psi boost you have 563cfm & 26 kw (1509btu) of heat to get rid of to work at good efficiency.
With 2 of 255 x 300long x 55mm cores the air speed through the core is 64.2 kph for 0.017 secs. 400mm long gives the same speed for 0.022 secs.
With 2 of 255 x 300 x 73mm cores the air speed is 46.7 kph for 0.023 secs.
As a very generalized, average, ball park figures 70 kph for 0.025 secs. id good. You need a 73mm core or 300x300x56mm core.

So I need to think if I want to go to all the hassle to fit in a thicker or wider core. Because the way the plenum is at the moment, I think I only have an area of 60mm x 255mm to weld on a core. I could go all out and get a new plenum welded up, but that is going to add more $$ and I'm not sure how much more performance going from a 255 x 55mm to 255 x 73mm core will add? I need to think about it some more.

Here is where I am at with an intercooler for my diesel (been running up to 24psi without one)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

My requirements at 4000rpm and ~33psi boost are 500CFM, boost temp of ~190C and heat rejection required of about 33kw.
So not that far away from yours.

I've looked at putting an intercooler in the front behind the grille, using water/air and even top-mount. But decided all those options are rubbish.
Instead I plan to move the AC condensor forward, install a narrower radiator back 25mm from the original and this leaves space for an intercooler of up to 800mm total width with a 600x400x50mm core.

You can see in the pic above that I drew up what I considered an indeal intercooler to fit that space and a narrower radiator that would package with it. Inlet/outlets right at the top corners are perfect for my setup.

I was astounded to find the RS500 Cosworth aftermarket intercoolers are exactly that. Various thicknesses are available, but the cores are 600x400x50 on most and inlet/outlets at the top corners in 2.5 or 3" depending on the seller.
They are about 200 quid including freight on ebay UK and a lower height alloy radiator to work with them is about the same money.
You might need more radiator cooling than that, but for me it's looking ideal.

I ran through a set of calcs over the weekend and I think I can take out over 70% of the heat at that 500CFM and 33psi operating point. I am limited by max fuel so it looks like I can drop the boost to about 29psi due to the extra cooling, this extra density drops the volume flow a little and should get me into the high 70's for heat rejection. Outlet temps around 55C.

*edit*
Speed through the cores, about 11m/s.

stirlsilver

2nd February 2014, 11:47 PM

Nice work with the model there Doug! Also thanks for the info on what you have found so far with intercooler sizes. I think I will go for the 73mm thick cores from ARE, I'll decide in the coming days. Not sure if you realized - i'm doing a top mount intercooler so I won't be touching the radiator.

I've been trying to dream up a way to have a system so that at low speed thermo fans force air over the intercoolers and at high speed the air is rammed in due to velocity bypassing the thermo fans and going through the intercoolers. But I haven't been able to figure out a simple way without doing a very complicated 2 way valve...

Anyway, I was only able to spend 5 hours in the workshop this weekend. It firstly involved me getting the engine running on MS3 with MS3 controlling the EDIS module advance angle - I got that sorted.

Then I needed to flash the MS to the latest development code so that I have access to fuel temperature and pressure correction - this is necessary so that the change in pressure and temperature of the LPG vapour can compensated in injector opening times. Anyway, I got the engine successfully running with that code so I can now proceed with the next bits.

The next step in getting the engine sorted is a cam angle position sensor. I found on some other forums that the Ford 3.0L V6 cam position sensor makes an ideal candidate.

Here is the Ford Cam sensor beside the Rover distributor:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/1168.jpg

Disassembly:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/1169.jpg

I jumped on a lathe and parted off the top portion of the Ford Cam sensor and the bottom portion of the rover distributor:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/1170.jpg

This is how everything will be put back together:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/1171.jpg

From top to bottom:
Rover top shaft bush
Ford top housing
Rover bottom housing
Rover Drive gear & shaft

That's all I had time to do, next week i'll continue the machining & hopefully finish the cam position sensor.

Questions & a favour

Does anyone have a spare Edis 8 connector? - I broke the clips on mine
Does anyone have a connector to suit the Ford 3.0L V6 cam sensor??
Does anyone have an old windows XP/7 laptop that I could borrow? - I'm using my computer (Surface Pro 2) but it's covered in magnets which is bad in a workshop with iron filings everywhere!

Dougal

3rd February 2014, 07:09 AM

I owned a turbo diesel van with a top-mount intercooler that had ducts attached to the bonnet.
These scooped air just above and forward of the radiator (high pressure zone) and transferred along and down through the core mounted above the engine.

I think current Prado and 200 series do the same thing. That in combination with fans sucking underneath should do the job.

Keep up the good work.

Tyresqueal

3rd February 2014, 11:15 PM

You could look at having a closed circuit for your fan(s) that is opened when a certain speed is reached - this could be activated by an air speed sensor, but I don't know if they can be calibrated down to highway speeds nor how it could be linked to open a switch rather than give a gauge reading. Any aircraft engineers out there? My alternative thought would be revs based from coil maybe, but it would be too erratic due to gear ratios to be useful IMHO.

Really enjoying this thread - thanks for sharing!

stirlsilver

4th February 2014, 01:17 AM

Keep up the good work.
Thanks Doug :)

You could look at having a closed circuit for your fan(s) that is opened when a certain speed is reached - this could be activated by an air speed sensor, but I don't know if they can be calibrated down to highway speeds nor how it could be linked to open a switch rather than give a gauge reading. Any aircraft engineers out there? My alternative thought would be revs based from coil maybe, but it would be too erratic due to gear ratios to be useful IMHO.

My original thought was to use the aftermarket cruise control sensor that is fitted to the car on the drive shaft to control the thermo fans with the ECU. So when you are at high speed they simply turn off. The problem is that a fan which is off creates a fair bit of drag when air tries to flow past it. Hence why I was trying to think of a way to have fans for low speed and a direct air path (bypassing the fans) at high speed. I'm starting to lean towards simply having the fans on all of the time regardless of what speed you are doing

Aircraft engineers? I have a degree in Aeronautical Engineering ;) though I don't work in that industry.

Really enjoying this thread - thanks for sharing! Thanks for reading!

Just a quick update - I've made headway in putting together the peak and hold injector drivers. The home made board in the middle inverts the grounding signal from the ECU to a 0-5V signal which the peak and hold board needs.

I hope it will work reliably, if this fails the engine will shut down... or loose a cylinder or two.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/1104.jpg

slug_burner

4th February 2014, 10:57 PM

Do you have to drive the peak hold off/reset it according to the fuel required?

stirlsilver

9th February 2014, 10:20 PM

Do you have to drive the peak hold off/reset it according to the fuel required?

I'm not sure what you mean? MS will be controlling the injector timing directly through this board. I'm not looking forward to doing the maths to calculate injector open times and then including the corrections for gas temperature & pressure.

Anyway, more progress.
The upper and lower pieces were machined for an interference fit:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/914.jpg

I reused the top bush from the rover distributor and machined out the inside of the assembly to insert it. Again it was an interference fit. I inserted the bush by heating up the aluminium assembly and then pressing it in. This photo shows it before I machined the bush down to the correct length:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/915.jpg

I joined the upper and lower sections in a similar manner. I heated the top piece up and used some thread locker on the lower section. And then pressed them together. I don't think they will come apart any time soon:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/916.jpg

Just before the final assembly. The original rover shaft machined down to length and the Ford trigger wheel was bored out:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/917.jpg

The finished article:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/918.jpg

A quick trial on the spare motor. It all fits quite nicely:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/919.jpg

On another note, I also finished the injector driver board and tested it. It works beautifully with it regulating to the correct currents. I forgot to take a photo of the whole unit completed with the connector. But you get the idea ;):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/920.jpg

Tomorrow I am picking up the tray frame and bull bar from the powdercoater :D

slug_burner

9th February 2014, 11:04 PM

stirlsilver

9th February 2014, 11:15 PM

Peak hold circuits are used to extend a short peak. They can either be reset by a counter a certain number of clock cycles later or can be reset by some other event. I do expect the MS to take control of the amount of fuel delivered. I just do not know how the MS will do it, keep extending the pulse or by turning it off.

All good, just thinking out loud.

As I understand it, solenoids require a high current to open them but a much lower current to hold them open. Peak & Hold board do this by giving a peak current a the start and then tripping to a much lower holding current. This keeps injectors responsive and avoids them overheating.

The way I have configured these boards is that they give a 5.5A peak to the injector and then hold at 1.3A. The graph below shows how a Peak & Hold board works, it does include a timer for when battery voltage is low during cranking too. All MS does is just command when the injector opens, and when it closes. The Peak & Hold board manages the current.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/913.jpg

slug_burner

9th February 2014, 11:40 PM

The injectors have to be driven hard to ensure they turn on or off and don't dribble fuel by being somewhere in between on and off.

Keep it up, I am sure the followers of this thread are all learning a lot.

stirlsilver

10th February 2014, 11:08 PM

Here is the photo of the finished injector driver. It took me a while to figure out how to remove pins from the GM connectors, but I got there in the end!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/873.jpg

Tray frame is all powder coated :D:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/874.jpg

And the bull bar came up a treat!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/875.jpg

stirlsilver

14th February 2014, 02:00 AM

Late night shenanigans - the design of the manifold & turbo flanges are done. Time to send them to the laser cutter!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/760.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/761.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/762.jpg

stirlsilver

16th February 2014, 11:00 PM

Checking in to report on progress this week.
I've settled on the design of the turbo dump pipes. I have a problem on the right hand side where the tightest butt weld elbow available doesn't have a small enough radius and as a result it is going to foul on the compressor. I'll deal with that when it comes to building the pipe:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/516.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/517.jpg

The tray frame was bolted on again in preparation to attach the lockers:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/518.jpg

The lockers leveled and in the process of being bonded together:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/519.jpg

The cam position sensor was fitted, here it is with the cap to hold the shaft in position during installation:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/520.jpg

Here is a short video showing the testing, initially the cam position sensor signal dropped out at low RPMs so some tweaking of the gain and hysteresis was required in the ECU. The signal is now solid. Quite happy it all works well:
Rover V8 on test rig - testing the cam position sensor - YouTube (http://youtu.be/s5Ux3srgeyY)

After the lockers cured, I prepped the aluminium for bonding to the steel frame:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/521.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/522.jpg

Bonding to the frame:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/523.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/524.jpg

I made a start on the LPG nozzles. While I could have gone with drilling and tapping the inlet manifold injector ports and then drilling and tapping again to install the nozzles. I decided that I would just cut up the old injectors and thread lock the LPG nozzles into the nozzles of the injectors. While the holes were too big to tap a thread they were the exact size of the LPG nozzles so the thread locker should work perfectly here:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/525.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/526.jpg

The injector module was wired onto the ECU and the injectors tested. All working perfectly (the number of wires is exploding!). I started the engine and the injectors were opening & closing sitting on the bench. Also all the LPG system sensors are wired up and giving readings:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/527.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/528.jpg

stirlsilver

18th February 2014, 06:24 PM

I just got word from ARE that my intercooler cores are ready and will be shipped out shortly :)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/405.jpg (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/stirlsilver/media/Discovery%20Build/Cores_zps4dc4af60.jpg.html)

mrapocalypse

20th February 2014, 10:15 AM

This build just gets more and more EPIC.

Well done. A great read.

Ian.

stirlsilver

23rd February 2014, 10:30 PM

This build just gets more and more EPIC.

Well done. A great read.

Ian.

Thanks Ian! I don't quite know what else to say!

It's time for the usual progress update. Looking back I don't think I got as much done as usual, but I guess that happens from time to time.

After going around and pouring in two full tubes of Sikaflex to glue and seal all the joints which connect the floor of the lockers to the tray frame I used my trick of using the two part polyurethane foam to bond the areas between the lockers and tray frame with large gaps. The end result was there were no gaps where water could seep into and cause corrosion.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/144.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/145.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/146.jpg

I then moved on to fitting the tail lights. Using CAD I used the information from the LED light supplier for the cutout and simply made a template which I traced over.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/147.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/148.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/149.jpg

Anyone with a sharp eye might notice that my die grinding skills need some work. I had the die grinder run away on me 3 times gouging the external surface of the aluminium. I was really annoyed at myself that it happened. Nothing I can really do...

To finish, I used a coat of seam sealer over the foam to seal it all up. It's not pretty, but it won't be visible when then tray is finished and it gives that extra barrier to water ingress.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/150.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/151.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/152.jpg

stirlsilver

24th February 2014, 11:26 PM

The intercooler cores are in my hands. They are certainly solid!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/123.jpg

I've also made a start on the plenum assembly. This is the line I'm thinking along at this stage.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/124.jpg

slug_burner

25th February 2014, 12:12 AM

I take it you do have a plenum that you will feed the outlet of the coolers into.

disco man

26th February 2014, 07:25 AM

Sounds wicked mate!! i have seen one in Canada when i was working there. Man did it look TUFF old mate filled it with up LS1 chevy. big wheels big lift and all the toys custom steel tray with the timber deck boards. it really stood out against the big chev, ford, dodge, trucks that the north americans love. would love one myself. hope it goes well mate!!!

Wicks89

28th February 2014, 07:08 PM

There are so many unbelievable builds on this forum but this is just..... Off the bloody wall! Looks awesome mate! Can't wait to see this thing rolling around!

stirlsilver

2nd March 2014, 11:48 PM

I take it you do have a plenum that you will feed the outlet of the coolers into.

I don't understand what you mean?? The cores feed into the plenum shown in the diagram? What I have to design now is the round to rectangular transition that will sit between the throttle body and the cores.

Sounds wicked mate!! i have seen one in Canada when i was working there. Man did it look TUFF old mate filled it with up LS1 chevy. big wheels big lift and all the toys custom steel tray with the timber deck boards. it really stood out against the big chev, ford, dodge, trucks that the north americans love. would love one myself. hope it goes well mate!!!

Thanks Disco man! I appreciate the feedback.

There are so many unbelievable builds on this forum but this is just..... Off the bloody wall! Looks awesome mate! Can't wait to see this thing rolling around!

Thanks Wicks! Your words really help with the motivation on the build!

OK, for the progress update.

I found a better way to route the right hand dump pipe - I wasn't happy with the fact that it would run between the axle and the engine mount:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/1149.jpg

All the exhaust bits I needed were in my hands, so let the fun begin!:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/1150.jpg

First up was making the collectors which would be welded to the manifold flanges. This is what I knocked up out of 10mm steel to cold work tube into the shape I needed. Unfortunately I didn't have access to Oxy & Acetylene so I had to rely on brute force:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/1151.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/1152.jpg

This was the result. Not too bad considering it was done with a dirty big mallet:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/1153.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/1154.jpg

And the various bits all welded together:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/1155.jpg

Next up, positioning the left hand turbo where I wanted it. I suspended it off a tube with some steel wire and got to welding up the first tube run to it:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/1156.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/1157.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/1158.jpg

The first run with the turbo flange tacked in position:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/1159.jpg

Once the first run was done, I no longer needed to do the work on the car so I move to a spare engine I had do the other runs:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/1160.jpg

Splicing two elbows together:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/1161.jpg

The second run done:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/1162.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/1163.jpg

Progress is a lot slower than I expected, I should be quicker on the other side as I learn the best way to do things.

That's it for the week.

rangieman

3rd March 2014, 11:38 AM

Looking great mate ;) I just love this thread :D

Casper

3rd March 2014, 04:15 PM

That's looking awesome, I don't know if you have already covered it, but I've tried reading through it all but I may have missed some.

Why are you going for such a large Plenum?

Is that going to be any advantage over just running the large intercooler into a normal sized plenum just to allow room to balance any pressure differences?

Seems your running injected LPG and forced induction, I didn't think the plenum would need to be so large.

Again, I may have missed something, I was reading some of it late at night trying to catch up and I'm thinking that some of it didn't sink in lol

Casper

3rd March 2014, 04:21 PM

Hahaha, I get it now, the trick is don't read things at night when your not retaining anything properly.

I'd see the pics of the plenum with the intercoolers connected and it was in my head that it was just a huge plenum chamber and was scratching my head why, not even thinking to ask the question.

I've now jumped about 3 pages to the turbo fit and missed where that was the intercoolers, i thought the intercooler was going in front of the radiator between the air con condenser for some reason.

Probably cross information from what i was reading that night while having an attack of insomnia hahaha.

Sorry mate, Ignore the above post, I'm an idiot. hahaha.

Homestar

3rd March 2014, 04:56 PM

Hi mate - looking good. Quick question about the 8 exhaust flange plate thingys you have had made - I am looking for a set of these myself at some stage as I want to make a new set of manifolds for the 101 when time permits. Did you have these made by someone or have access to the required equipment yourself?

If you had them made, who did them and do they still have the drawing for them? It would save me having to start from scratch.

Cheers - Gav

stirlsilver

5th March 2014, 12:09 AM

Looking great mate ;) I just love this thread :D

Thanks Chris!! I hope all is going well on your end mate!

Hahaha, I get it now, the trick is don't read things at night when your not retaining anything properly.

I'd see the pics of the plenum with the intercoolers connected and it was in my head that it was just a huge plenum chamber and was scratching my head why, not even thinking to ask the question.

I've now jumped about 3 pages to the turbo fit and missed where that was the intercoolers, i thought the intercooler was going in front of the radiator between the air con condenser for some reason.

Probably cross information from what i was reading that night while having an attack of insomnia hahaha.

Sorry mate, Ignore the above post, I'm an idiot. hahaha.

Glad you got it all sorted Casper! I'm going about it a bit of a different way, but i'm pretty sure it will work!

Hi mate - looking good. Quick question about the 8 exhaust flange plate thingys you have had made - I am looking for a set of these myself at some stage as I want to make a new set of manifolds for the 101 when time permits. Did you have these made by someone or have access to the required equipment yourself?

If you had them made, who did them and do they still have the drawing for them? It would save me having to start from scratch.

Cheers - Gav

Hi Gav,
I still have the drawings. If you want I can arrange a set for you if you like? If you agree to pay something it could be a small donation to the project :angel: The cost of a full set should be about $50 plus posting it out to you.

On to more important matters

I have accepted a new job in Sydney and I am basically going to be starting it in 2 weeks. As a result I need to move all my gear & the car to Sydney in the next couple of months.

Does anyone know of or have a location where I could house this build and continue working on it? Preferably somewhere near the Castle Hill?

Dougal

5th March 2014, 07:33 AM

So all those dots on the turbo are for photo-modelling?

slug_burner

5th March 2014, 08:13 PM

So all those dots on the turbo are for photo-modelling?

I suspect that is the case. A lead on a good cheap program to process the images into a CAD format would be good.

Tyresqueal

5th March 2014, 10:46 PM

On to more important matters

I have accepted a new job in Sydney and I am basically going to be starting it in 2 weeks. As a result I need to move all my gear & the car to Sydney in the next couple of months.

Does anyone know of or have a location where I could house this build and continue working on it? Preferably somewhere near the Castle Hill?

Wish I had the space at my place and work grumble when I have my Disco in the workshop for more than a few hours. I'm just down Pennant Hills Road, so let me know if you ever need a hand though.

stirlsilver

6th March 2014, 11:44 PM

So all those dots on the turbo are for photo-modelling?

Yes, that was the plan initially. I tried it but the software package which I had (I can't remember the name now) couldn't handle so many points. So I gave up and just did a basic model based on some photos directly in SolidWorks.

Wish I had the space at my place and work grumble when I have my Disco in the workshop for more than a few hours. I'm just down Pennant Hills Road, so let me know if you ever need a hand though.

Thanks for the offer, it's appreciated. I have a couple of months to sort something out up there, but I will be starting to work in Castle Hill from the 17th of March and will then be flying back and forth to Melbourne to tie up all loose ends. Hectic times. If you hear of anything coming up, drop me a line!

I spent a little bit more time tonight on the intake design. Unfortunately the brake master cylinder is in the way, so I've had to make a compromise on the right hand intercooler inlet tank.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/1036.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/1037.jpg

stirlsilver

18th March 2014, 10:01 PM

Hello from Sydney everyone!
Due to the frantic rush in the weekend leading up to my move, I didn't have a chance to post up an update. So here it is:

Removed the front axle out of the discover to swap it out with the locked & slotted swivel ball axle from the the range rover. Before installing the axle I needed to weld on the sway bar brackets I had cut off from the other axle earlier.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/621.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/622.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/623.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/624.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/625.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/626.jpg

During the process of swapping the axles, I discovered that the earlier range rovers had very different (i.e. much weaker) radius arms than the discovery originally had... I didn't have time to sort that out so I just bolted on the axle temporarily for now until I complete the move.

Range rover was unceremoniously chopped up. I salvaged all the bits that were worth while and sold them.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/627.jpg

I dropped in the LPG tanks and started packing everything onto the tray and into the lockers for when the car is moved.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/628.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/629.jpg

The bull bar was bolted on. It's the safest place for it while in transit.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/630.jpg

The next steps are for me to find a workshop up here in Sydney, then fly back down to Melbourne stuff everything into a container and ship it up. Easy...

stirlsilver

18th March 2014, 10:12 PM

The MegaSquirt 2 ECU that came out of the range rover
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/550.jpg (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/stirlsilver/media/Ebay/WP_20140313_14_43_01_Pro_zpscf08c2b5.jpg.html)

The 3.9L V8 that I pulled out of the 96 Discovery
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/551.jpg (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/stirlsilver/media/Ebay/WP_20140313_14_33_21_Pro_zpsf71c698d.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/552.jpg (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/stirlsilver/media/Ebay/WP_20140313_14_33_04_Pro_zps74d0060c.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/553.jpg (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/stirlsilver/media/Ebay/WP_20140313_14_32_53_Pro_zps853f5bdf.jpg.html)

The ZF 4HP22 Automatic transmission & transfer case which I pulled from the 96 discovery
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/554.jpg (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/stirlsilver/media/Ebay/WP_20140313_14_32_41_Pro_zps6dd4c17d.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/555.jpg (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/stirlsilver/media/Ebay/WP_20140313_14_32_29_Pro_zps11bf7ad0.jpg.html)

disco man

20th March 2014, 12:27 PM

Good to here from you bud been hanging out for the next update on your epic build looking awesome really coming together mate. was watching outback challenge 09 dvd the other day one of the teams had a disco ute. just like yours it was making me wish i had one i reckon yours will look just as sweet. really wish i had the engineering nous to do stuff like that look forward to the next chapter. very well done mate:p

Disco Muppet

20th March 2014, 10:54 PM

You did...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/549.jpg (http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/DiscoMuppet/media/Picture1_zpsbd86d502.png.html)

Anyway.
Build is progressing nicely, looking forward to seeing it finished! :)

Homestar

21st March 2014, 06:18 AM

Yep, no selling in the main forum please. Take it to the Markets - or, as you are a Vendor, you can advertise these in the Verandah as well.:)

stirlsilver

18th May 2014, 10:43 PM

Hello everyone. Remember me?

Anyway, over the last couple of months I have been starting my new job and settling into Sydney. I managed to find myself a new location to keep working in Riverstone which despite how far away from the city it is is very very expensive... Anyway I guess that will serve as motivation to finish this project ASAP.

This week I flew down to Melbourne to complete my move to Sydney. Which meant packing up the workshop. It basically involves one 40ft container...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/05/609.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/05/610.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/05/611.jpg

The two major items were prepared... The car and the engine with the test bed.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/05/612.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/1300.jpg

And basically, everything was stuffed into the container. I honestly didn't expect to fill it...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/05/613.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/05/614.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/05/615.jpg

The container gets collected tomorrow and should be dropped off at the new location later in the week. Then the fun of unloading begins...

slug_burner

19th May 2014, 07:17 PM

Plenty of room.

Well done on getting everything into the container.

Looking forward to the updates.

dullbird

19th May 2014, 09:01 PM

Riverstone.....I work a lot around the Riverstone area...

what made you go there? not exactly close to the city

ROMAROVER

19th May 2014, 09:38 PM

Riverstone.....I work a lot around the Riverstone area...

what made you go there? not exactly close to the city

MAYBE THE NICE CHEAP PIES AT THE RIVO BAKERY

stirlsilver

22nd May 2014, 08:55 PM

Riverstone.....I work a lot around the Riverstone area...

what made you go there? not exactly close to the city

It was the closest space which was big enough for me that I could find... And it's ended up being smaller than what I had in Melbourne and 50% more expensive...

MAYBE THE NICE CHEAP PIES AT THE RIVO BAKERY?

Where is this Bakery that you speak of?

dullbird

22nd May 2014, 10:13 PM

It was the closest space which was big enough for me that I could find... And it's ended up being smaller than what I had in Melbourne and 50% more expensive...

?

Where is this Bakery that you speak of?

X2 yeah where is it?

couldn't of come down south? im anhour out of Sydney and I would be surprised if you couldnt of found something down this way

3lud13

17th June 2014, 08:02 PM

stirlsilver

23rd October 2014, 11:43 PM

Wow what I great job has taken me a few very long sessions to read this but have actually read every post on this thread it had me so interested.
I was also very excited seeing your in knox since its just down the road from me and this is pretty damn close to something I would like to do only to get to the last few pages and discover you have vanished off to Sydney.
Would have loved to have had a look at it but at least I have your thread for insperation and ideas while planning my own build.
I also must admit this thread is what helped convince me to buy the disco I did as I found this thread after a quick search of ute conversions for a landrover as I found one I thought sounded quite good and cheap.
So thanks heaps and keep up the great work.

Thanks!! I'm sorry to have let you down there! Trust me from the point of view of this project, I would probably be getting close to finishing if I hadn't moved!!

Anyway, hello all! It's been a while. I've had issues in the last few months with exactly where I was going to end up. For a good while there there was a strong chance that I was going to end up in Wollongong so... I sent the car down there, and that's where it is still sitting in the container...

Anyway, the good news is that I'm staying in Castle Hill. Bad news is, I can't find anywhere for the project!! Does anyone have or know someone who has some space in a workshop or similar I can rent in or around Castle Hill?? I can't find anything!!

Any help really would be appreciated.

disco2hse

24th October 2014, 06:27 AM

Thanks!! I'm sorry to have let you down there! Trust me from the point of view of this project, I would probably be getting close to finishing if I hadn't moved!!

Anyway, hello all! It's been a while. I've had issues in the last few months with exactly where I was going to end up. For a good while there there was a strong chance that I was going to end up in Wollongong so... I sent the car down there, and that's where it is still sitting in the container...

Anyway, the good news is that I'm staying in Castle Hill. Bad news is, I can't find anywhere for the project!! Does anyone have or know someone who has some space in a workshop or similar I can rent in or around Castle Hill?? I can't find anything!!

Any help really would be appreciated.

The price of success Stirl. Glad to see you are still plugging away at it.

Alan

stirlsilver

13th December 2014, 08:13 PM

Hello everyone. I'm back!

Today the car moved into its new home in Annangrove. At long last I managed to find somewhere to keep working on the car!

Prior to loading the car onto the trailer, we needed to pull out one spring that was still mounted in the car. The other side had shot out when the car was bouncing around loose in the container when it was moved from Melbourne to Sydney! Thanks to my buddy Isaac for giving me a hand today!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/12/909.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/12/910.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/12/911.jpg

The new home. A bit smaller than what I had in Melbourne, but workable.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/12/912.jpg

Next step is to get the engine moved into the workshop, and all my tools, benches and so on.

Question
Does anyone have an old cylinder head they no longer need? I need something to act as a jig while I finish the exhaust manifolds.

Corgie Carrier

14th December 2014, 01:25 PM

Welcome back mate. I have missed this thread.

Hope all goes well from now on

How is the new job?

stirlsilver

17th December 2014, 11:05 PM

Thanks Neale, I appreciate it.

The new job... Very very challenging that is for sure. I'm now general manager and the company needs a lot of work to get it to where it needs to be. Let's see how it goes. Definitely been thrown into the deep end on this one.

Just a quick update, the workshop is slowly getting organised :) looking forward to being in a location that doesn't leak!!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/12/913.jpg

No one has any suggestions on where I can get hold of an old cylinder head? Surely there has to be one lying around somewhere?

Also, any suggestions on a supplier for the following bits?

4.0L short motor (4 bolt mains) with top hat liners
Crank adaptor to allow using the 3.9L timing cover on the 4.0L short motor
Head studs
Cam
Timing gear set
Performance Gasket kit
Lifters
Rocker shafts
Ported Cylinder Heads
ZF 4HP24 gearbox inc. 4.6L parts to connect it to the engine

slug_burner

19th December 2014, 02:54 AM

Turner Engineering - Remanufacturer of Land Rover Engines and supplier of Land Rover engine parts (http://turner-engineering.co.uk) will have most of your typical engine rebuilding bits, some of the other stuff sounds like you will need to find a wrecker.

stirlsilver

1st January 2015, 09:46 PM

Happy new year everyone!

Turner Engineering - Remanufacturer of Land Rover Engines and supplier of Land Rover engine parts (http://turner-engineering.co.uk) will have most of your typical engine rebuilding bits, some of the other stuff sounds like you will need to find a wrecker.

Thanks for the link. Would you know anyone in Australia though? I'm already aware of Triump Rover Spares, but I was hoping to find someone in Sydney.

Today I spent some time in the workshop to keep things moving. I started pulling the front axle apart since the axle I have currently got fitted to the car is from the early version range rover which has the smaller radius arms. So I started the process of pulling it apart since it has Hi-Tough Axles and the ARB locker with the plan of transferring all the good bits into the other axle housing.

I have a question though, the CV's are quite different. Will I be able to fit these parts into the 1993 disco housing? It seems like quite a lot is different. The one with the single piece drive flange is the Hi-Tough axle and the other is the original 10 spline assembly.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/1288.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/1289.jpg

stirlsilver

2nd January 2015, 10:49 PM

Continued with the disassembly of the front axle today to remove all of the running gear. The axle has a 10 spline diff along with standard CV's and half shafts which is no good.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/1290.jpg

I split apart the CVs and half shafts that came out of the other axle that has the ARB locker (originally out of Wayne's range rover). Clearly, the CV on the short side once upon a time had exploded, making a little bit of a mess of the shaft! Though having seen some of the stuff Wayne got up with his range rover with the shaft in this condition, I'm comfortable about it being strong enough.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/1291.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/1292.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/1293.jpg

One thing that is confusing me at the moment, is that the ARB locker in the old axle seems to be fitted into a diff housing which has a thicker flange with equal length studs all the way around. The newer housings have four shorter studs on the sides which aren't long enough. Does anybody know if there are any incompatibilities that I don't know about? Or should I be thinking about swapping out the ARB diff centre into the newer housing? I guess bearings would be different??

I probably should have taken photos of all of this like I usually do!!

Another area of concern... I've been discussing the engine & gearbox configuration I am considering - 4L V8 twin turbo connected to a 4HP22 with 4HP24 internals. It turns out that more often than not, I'm told that the auto transmission won't hold up with the engine and that I should go with a manual gearbox!!

slug_burner

2nd January 2015, 11:55 PM

Hope your getting good advice. Maybe autos make up for us less skilled drivers. I have rebuilt an R380 twice and the ZF behind the D2 is still going at more km.

rangieman

2nd January 2015, 11:57 PM

Mate autos are for girls or doof doof rice burners That cant drive:wasntme:
Running away real fast:p

MR LR

3rd January 2015, 11:13 AM

If you are still looking for cooked rover engine bits for jigs, talk to a few of the Sydney based LR workshops, cooked V8's are pretty common and I know there's quite a few sitting around!

Graeme Coopers, TR Spares (Padstow), LVS, DPL or KLR would be able to help I assume.

Hope to see this machine out on the local tracks soon!

Cheers
Will

isuzurover

3rd January 2015, 07:12 PM

Hope your getting good advice. Maybe autos make up for us less skilled drivers. I have rebuilt an R380 twice and the ZF behind the D2 is still going at more km.

Unless we are talking LT95, I would expect a properly set up ZF to be stronger than a rover manual box behind a V8.

stirlsilver

3rd January 2015, 10:05 PM

Hope your getting good advice. Maybe autos make up for us less skilled drivers. I have rebuilt an R380 twice and the ZF behind the D2 is still going at more km.

Well, the last person to mention this to me was Bruce from Davis Performance Land Rover. He said that the problem is the sprag clutch which doesn't get changed when you fit the 4HP24 internals into the 4HP22. However, just reading the the Ashcroft page on the ZF autos (Ashcroft Transmissions (http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/automatic-gearboxes/zf4hp22.html)) it is mentioned there at the bottom of the page that they upgrade the sprag clutches due to them being known to fail. I'll have a chat to Bruce again about this and see what he says.

Mate autos are for girls or doof doof rice burners That cant drive:wasntme:
Running away real fast:p

I totally agree! But... the reason I want an auto is so that the tubos don't come off boost when shifting gears!

If you are still looking for cooked rover engine bits for jigs, talk to a few of the Sydney based LR workshops, cooked V8's are pretty common and I know there's quite a few sitting around!

Graeme Coopers, TR Spares (Padstow), LVS, DPL or KLR would be able to help I assume.

Thanks Will, I appreciate the info!

Unless we are talking LT95, I would expect a properly set up ZF to be stronger than a rover manual box behind a V8.

Thanks for that, have you seen any ZF boxes fitted to larger V8's? Like 5L or so? No problems? Who built those boxes?

Moving back onto progress:
I got the ARB locker out of the old Range Rover axle.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/1294.jpg

This is the difference I mentioned earlier about the flange being thick around all the bolts. The newer housings have 4 short studs which aren't long enough.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/1295.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/1296.jpg

While I had the diff sitting in the Disco axle I trialed the shafts and CV's from the range rover to see how they fit. The long side seemed fine, but the short side it looked like the shaft was too long. I'm not sure if it is because I'm using shafts that suit a suffix A CV. The photo below is just when I was inserting the long side.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/1297.jpg

Does anyone have a good source of information where I can look up the Hi Tough part numbers I have to see if they should fit? In the trial fitment above I was using the old CV's but new ones might be different.
Short shaft HTE 606662.24
Long shaft HTE 606663.24

To finish up, I swapped over some studs from the axle housings so now the diff will bolt in nicely.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/1298.jpg

Next steps for the front axle are.
*Getting clarification of whether I can use the HTE shafts I have or not
*Buying a set of nice strong CV's - Anyone got a vendor they can recommend?
*Send the axle off to be rebuilt with new seals & bearings.

Disco Muppet

3rd January 2015, 10:28 PM

Tombie ran a 5L Supercharged V8 in his D1 auto, perhaps shoot him a PM :)

isuzurover

5th January 2015, 01:47 AM

Just call Barry at hitough re the halfshafts.
Ashcroft CVs. Cheapest to buy direct. While you are at it get them to build you a gearbox.

Skiboy

7th January 2015, 06:13 PM

We run in our comp ute maxi locker with high tough/maxi shafts and same cvs as you have as we have early axle housing

We have had to use as a spare once at mid 90s disco hub - we bolted the disco swivel hub etc complete including the half shaft onto the early rangie housing and maxi locker - we had to do this as exploded a cv (reversing with almost all weight on front right and locker in - poor driving!)

So one option for you is bolt the entire rangie swivel hub and all other parts of hub - as bushes and cvs etc different - onto the later housing you have

When doing hub slot the brake line bracket so can remove brake line without having to undo swivel bearing plate

Advantage of the old cvs is the drive flange is the weak point - with a magnet on a stick you can normally pull the broken end from the cv - very simple fix on track - unbolt drive flange pull broken bit then insert new/second hand drive flange.

This give you a sacrificial easy fix item in the drive line. In tough tracks comp we have broken two flanges in 3 years.

If go ashcrofts then you need the later hubs - they are great cvs but leave no release point. Fixing a locker is a larger task.

But with larger engine may have no choice but to go later hubs and Ashcroft cvs

Skiboy

stirlsilver

13th January 2015, 11:44 PM

Tombie ran a 5L Supercharged V8 in his D1 auto, perhaps shoot him a PM :)

Thanks for that advice, I sent him a PM. Turns out that he had no problems with the 4HP24 internals in the 4HP22 box. But he only owned the car for 6 months.

Just call Barry at hitough re the halfshafts.
Ashcroft CVs. Cheapest to buy direct. While you are at it get them to build you a gearbox.

I think I'll do this, i'm kicking myself that I didn't buy this stuff when that AUD was $1.10 against the USD. Purchases from the UK would have been cheaper with the strong Aussie dollar!

We run in our comp ute maxi locker with high tough/maxi shafts and same cvs as you have as we have early axle housing

We have had to use as a spare once at mid 90s disco hub - we bolted the disco swivel hub etc complete including the half shaft onto the early rangie housing and maxi locker - we had to do this as exploded a cv (reversing with almost all weight on front right and locker in - poor driving!)

So one option for you is bolt the entire rangie swivel hub and all other parts of hub - as bushes and cvs etc different - onto the later housing you have

When doing hub slot the brake line bracket so can remove brake line without having to undo swivel bearing plate

Advantage of the old cvs is the drive flange is the weak point - with a magnet on a stick you can normally pull the broken end from the cv - very simple fix on track - unbolt drive flange pull broken bit then insert new/second hand drive flange.

This give you a sacrificial easy fix item in the drive line. In tough tracks comp we have broken two flanges in 3 years.

If go ashcrofts then you need the later hubs - they are great cvs but leave no release point. Fixing a locker is a larger task.

But with larger engine may have no choice but to go later hubs and Ashcroft cvs

Skiboy

Excellent advice! Thanks Skiboy, I think what I'll do is stick with the later hubs. I can just picture at some point down the track me struggling to figure out what bearings I need to use because I wasn't sure what parts I mixed and matched. Another option to the Ashcroft CV seems to be KAM, it looks like they have the short shaft on the outboard side of the CV allowing easier replacement. Anyone used these guys before?

Just on a general update, while I wait for an opportunity for me to fetch my test engine in Wollongong to bring it up to my workshop. I've been working on the LPG compensation equations. Since I am using a vapour LPG injection system I need megasquirt to compensate for the fluctuations of temperature and pressure in the fuel rail. I hassled Prins in the Netherlands and even Keihin in Japan on how the Keihin injectors really behave with the various conditions.

Anyway, I managed to get two semi useful emails out of Prins and it was just enough for me to work out the compensation for rail temperature & pressure. I'll have to code the temperature & pressure compensation curves along with the injection pulse time for 100% volumetric efficiency. Below is a snapshot. When I get the engine back I'll fit the injectors and see if my curves are correct! There were definitely a few assumptions that needed to be made!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/1299.jpg

Scouse

14th January 2015, 08:19 AM

while I wait for an opportunity for me to fetch my test engine in Wollongong to bring it up to my workshop. Whereabouts in Wollongong is it?
It's school holidays ATM & we're often down at Bulli Beach on warm afternoons so I can pick it up if it's not too far from there then drop it off next week.

stirlsilver

14th January 2015, 07:57 PM

Whereabouts in Wollongong is it?
It's school holidays ATM & we're often down at Bulli Beach on warm afternoons so I can pick it up if it's not too far from there then drop it off next week.

Hi Scott,
It's a very nice offer! But I'm not sure if you know what you are getting yourself into there:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/1300.jpg

The engine is in Unanderra in a garage of a plumber there. I used their forklift last time (actually the guys used their own as I don't have the license) to get it out of the container and into their garage. Because the engine and test bed is 1.8m wide from what I could find, it won't fit in a box trailer so it would need a car trailer to transport it.

It's not exactly a simple thing to move it. Still offering??

Scouse

14th January 2015, 08:58 PM

It might be a bit of a squeeze for a 7x4 trailer.

slug_burner

14th January 2015, 10:19 PM

I guess that easy transport was not one of the engine stand design criteria. :)

MR LR

14th January 2015, 10:23 PM

May fit in/on my buggy trailer... it's about 10x5'

Would just need a way to load/unload it, I am in Wollongong way too often for uni anyway :p (even in the holidays, to play race cars).

Cheers
Will.

Scouse

14th January 2015, 11:05 PM

I guess that easy transport was not one of the engine stand design criteria. :)It's on wheels so I guess I could just tow it 'as is'.

Just need to sort some lights out - safety first ;).

isuzurover

14th January 2015, 11:15 PM

It's on wheels so I guess I could just tow it 'as is'.

Just need to sort some lights out - safety first ;).

It still has the radius arm mounts... Just whack an axle under there and weld an A-frame to the other end. Instant trailer!

istevo

10th February 2015, 07:13 PM

Quote
"Also, another question, what do people think the best method is of going about the project in relation to the engineer. Should I get him to come in before I start to do anything, to discuss what I intend to do and what they would be looking or should I build it, then show it to the engineer say half way through and then at the end?"

Stirl,
I got the engineer out for my project before I got really stuck into it. I'm not sure if I had to though, as he came out half way through it anyway and then I presented it to them at the finish. They charged me $125.00 for each visit & all I did at the start was outline what I wanted to do to him and he just nodded. I reckon if you can demonstrate that your project is fairly common then I would say just get him out halfway & actually get some value out of the visit because by then you may have some questions.

Dee Jay, who was your engineer?
cheers Ian

stirlsilver

15th February 2015, 10:04 PM

At last, some real progress!! On Saturday I went to LVS and purchased an old cylinder head for $40 to use as a jig for the manifold. I've now finished the left hand side exhaust manifold. All that is left is a little bit of grinding.

The tricky splice of a 3rd elbow into the collector:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/1080.jpg

Welding up the elbow for cylinder number 1:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/1081.jpg

A little bit gappy, but nothing I couldn't patch up with the TIG:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/1082.jpg

Another tricky splice, for cylinder number 3 into the number 1 runner. This one turned out much neater. A spacer was used on the cylinder number 1 flange to compensate for the deformation from all the welding I was about to do on one side of the pipe:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/1083.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/1084.jpg

And the assembly all welded up. Still hot so waiting for it to cool:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/1085.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/1086.jpg

Next up the right hand manifold!

stirlsilver

22nd February 2015, 10:16 PM

The goal this weekend was to get the other manifold finished. Goal achieved :D:

First though, i did a trial fit of the LH manifold & turbo.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/1087.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/1088.jpg

I dummied up the dump pipe. A tight squeeze but there is enough space to fit insulation between the pipe & firewall. I've also realized that the turbo needs to be fitted and removed with the dump pipe as there won't be access to some bolts. So time to go to an exhaust shop and buy some flanges.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/1089.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/1090.jpg

Positioning of the RH turbo in the engine bay.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/1091.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/1092.jpg

The first runner that matches up with the positioning of the turbo in the engine bay.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/1093.jpg

And then the tedious process of splicing pipes and elbows together.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/1094.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/1095.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/1096.jpg

Finished!!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/1097.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/1098.jpg

stirlsilver

26th February 2015, 09:27 PM

I've been asking some questions on the MegaSquirt forum about how to change the code of the ECU so that the fuel pressure which is measured doesn't automatically get changed to a differential pressure by subtracting the rail pressure with the manifold air pressure.
Megasquirt Support Forum (MSEXTRA) • Fuel pressure compensation using absolute rail pressure only (View topic) (http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=131&t=57680&p=431744#p431744)

It looks like I need to do a little bit of hardcore coding of the ECU!

On a separate note, I should finally be picking up the engine this weekend and I'll be able to move on to seeing if I can get the LPG injectors to work!

crash

27th February 2015, 07:41 PM

An exhaust manifold design question.
Their is a lot of debate about equal and unequal length exhaust runners. One design will give you more horsepower where the other will produce more torque.
Do these principles play any role when you are introducing a turbo?
I will admit that I have very little knowledge when it comes to fluid dynamics. Most exhaust manifolds are designed to help with the scavenging of the exhaust gasses but it looks to me that they way yours are designed that where the two front exhaust ports join that their will be a lot of turbulence introduced. But then again - does it really matter with such short runners and going into a turbo?

Keep up the good work as I am finding it all very interesting.

slug_burner

28th February 2015, 12:16 AM

The idea is to get the pressure and heat to the turbo. Long runners allow more heat loss. In a normally aspirated engine you try to get the runners of a length so that at a rpm band the headers are tuned to assist with scavenging. The consensus is that short log manifolds are the better option for turboed engines.

stirlsilver

1st March 2015, 03:52 PM

Thanks for the questions Crash & your answers Slug. Right at the beginning I wanted to make a 4 to 1 exhaust manifold with 4 equal length short runners. But geez that would have been a nightmare for me to fabricate!! The way I see it is that at least i've used elbows in all locations on my log manifold.

I've seen some very agricultural designs in the past with reasonable performance, so at least I'm a notch up on that with my design!!

So, I've at long last managed to get my test engine back after nearly a YEAR in storage.

I wonder what people would have though following me seeing this crude assembly on a car trailer flying down the Hume Hwy.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1545.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1546.jpg

I wired everything back up and by that evening I had the engine started. Very happy that everything is still working!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1547.jpg

The RH turbo was also mounted on to the manifold in the engine bay. And of course everything fits where it should :D
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1548.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1549.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1550.jpg

Now I can get cracking on trying to get those LPG injectors working. That's going to be tricky but will be a major milestone in the project when I get there!!

crash

1st March 2015, 08:07 PM

stirlsilver

8th March 2015, 10:40 PM

Hello everyone, I have some excellent news!! The test engine runs on the LPG Injectors!!!!! Also it was great to meet Allan (aussearcher) who was in Sydney on holidays and swung by the workshop to have a look at the build. All the best with the rest of your holiday Allan!

I still have a bit to go with respect to tuning, but today it was proven that the MegaSquirt 3 is driving the Vapour LPG Injectors perfectly!! Below are the photos from today:

Plenum removed and the old passive LPG system removed. My custom LPG nozzles (which I made by cutting down an old set of injectors) were fitted:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1551.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1552.jpg

Some temporary brackets were made up to hold the injectors in position, they ended up needing to be shifted since they fouled with the intake manifold:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1553.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1554.jpg

Everything plumbed up and wired up ready to go, even more of a mess of tubes & wires!!:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1555.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1556.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1557.jpg

And she was up and running!! That's Derrick who gave me a hand for the day (thanks mate):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1558.jpg

A short 30sec clip of the engine running. You can hear the injectors ticking away:
http://vid8.photobucket.com/albums/a16/stirlsilver/Discovery%20Build/WP_20150308_17_25_22_Pro_zpsi0llv0s3.mp4

If the above doesn't work, surely good old YouTube will:
http://youtu.be/Jg4DBwxLdBk

slug_burner

8th March 2015, 11:44 PM

Must be very satisfying to get the engine going on gas. How are the turbos coming along?

aussearcher

9th March 2015, 08:44 PM

Stirling,
Great to meet you and Derrick on Sunday and thanks for letting me interrupt a busy day.
In the flesh this is an even more impressive project than the pictures show. There is an integrity to the design (and execution) that surpasses many factory offerings. A great pity that LR did not offer a Disco Ute!
I look forward to the results of your turbo project; I have absolutely no doubt that you will achieve what you are seeking to do.
Alan

stirlsilver

11th March 2015, 09:14 PM

Thanks Alan, you are too kind. And sorry for the misspelling of your name!

A quick update. Starting to get some quotes to get the Plenum parts cut & fabricated. I was concerned that my original design of the plenum was way too narrow and wouldn't provide enough space for between the face of the cooler core and the trumpets inside. It would have meant that the air stream on the bottom half of the cores would have to wiggle its way between the trumpets and work its way upward before going down again. This would have had a pressure drop impact. So I've made the plenum 30mm wider on either side to address this. I

I now need to check if this is going to give me grief by clashing with the master cylinder on the right hand side... I'm starting to run out of space over there!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1559.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1560.jpg

stirlsilver

16th March 2015, 12:12 AM

Another rather productive weekend.

First up, I was getting a little concerned that I might get a complaint from running the test engine without a silencer. The neighbour's house wasn't so far away from the workshop I was renting. Though I think I might have gone a little overboard with the size of the silencer!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1561.jpg

Anyway, on to more interesting things. I moved on to fabricating the dump pipes for the turbos. First of all, I did a quick trial to ensure that the bypass valve would clear the flange I had laser cut. Thankfully all looked good :)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1562.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1563.jpg

Next, came the fabrication of an insert which would create a reasonably smooth path from the outlet of the turbine into the dump pipe. A lot of people leave a massive cavity so that the bypass and turbine exhaust flows through one pipe, but in my mind that is a compromise since a lot of turbulence would be present on the outlet of the turbine which would mean increased pressure and therefore less performance!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1564.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1565.jpg

Welding in the insert. My TIG skills are improving :)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1566.jpg

Then came the fun part of checking alignments for the positioning of the elbows and splicing the elbows together. And lots of welding... All on one side of the flange which resulted in a slight bow forming on the flange. The gasket should take that up though and hopefully it will pull straight when it heats up.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1567.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1568.jpg

Trial fitment in the engine bay.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1569.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1570.jpg

The left hand side dump pipe was the same story, just slightly different angles.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1571.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1572.jpg

Trial fit up, a little tight but it all clears :)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1573.jpg

I was going to finish the rest of the dump pipe, but then I realised that didn't buy any 40mm ID straight pipe for the exhaust bypass line. No idea how I'm going to get hold of such a short piece of this pipe!!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1574.jpg

So I moved on to the throttle bodies. These came off a couple of Holden Astra's.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1575.jpg

After a lot of degreaser/scrubbing and the removal of some un-necessary fittings, hey turned up quite well.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1576.jpg

In addition to all of the above, I did some more tweaking of MegaSquirt to try and make the engine easier to start on the LPG injectors. It has improved quite a lot but it is still pretty rough to start the engine. More work is needed. Despite my effort with the silencer, I still got a complaint from the neighbours!!

That's all for now.

INVSBL

17th March 2015, 01:31 AM

shesh this is such an awesome build, loving the detail!

stirlsilver

23rd March 2015, 12:10 AM

shesh this is such an awesome build, loving the detail!

Thanks INVSBL:) The things I'm working on now are much more interesting than the bodywork stuff!!

Right progress update from this weekend.

Finished the dump pipe collector arrangement after I was able to get my hands on some DN40 tube from a metal shop on the weekend.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1577.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1578.jpg

Then I moved onto a little side project. I had an idea of getting the oil supply to the turbos without running oil lines all the way from the bottom of the engine where the oil pump is to both turbos. I'm toying with the idea of drilling and tapping into the oil gallery that supplies the rocker shafts. Below is the mockup I did on the cylinder head I had as a jig. It seems to work reasonably well. Though I'm not sure if I have the guts to do this mod to a $3000 set of ported heads... One issue is getting the line outside of the heads, the bulk head fitting I've used here is definitely not gas tight so I would probably need to bond it into the aluminium... Hmmm, would love to know other people's thoughts on this idea. One big question is, will it be able to supply enough oil? A quick search seems to suggest that the flow rate of oil is only about 1.4L/min which isn't a whole lot.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1579.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1580.jpg

Anyway, back on track. The dump pipes were welded up to get to the bottom of the engine.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1581.jpg

The pipe run on the RH turbo is a bit ridiculous. It's so tight, I really didn't have much space to work with at all, but I got there in the end. What I will need to do now is buy a V-Band clamp and weld it in just after the waste gate line merges into the main pipe so I can actually take it all apart!!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1582.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1583.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1584.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1585.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1586.jpg

The LH side isn't quite as ridiculous, it all worked out rather nicely really. I do wish I had some more clearance between the pipe and the firewall, but there isn't much I can do there.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1587.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1588.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1589.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1590.jpg

With all the exhaust fabrication basically finished, I removed the manifolds from the engine in the car and transferred them across to the test engine. The RH side requires me to modify the aluminium bracket which holds the York air compressor. I tried by best to make the 90deg elbow out of the turbo as compact as possible but it wasn't enough! Anyway, chopping away some aluminium will solve that.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1591.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1592.jpg

Here is another view of how tight I hugged the 2" pipe to the exhaust manifold. I'm going to need to fit a lot of heat shielding...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1593.jpg

The LH side ended up fitting up quite easily to the test engine since there are less things in the way.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1594.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/1595.jpg

On other matters, I'm getting quotes to have the plenum fabricated up by a local shop nearby. Since I haven't even attempted to TIG weld aluminium yet, I'm going to leave something so fiddley and visible to someone who welds for a living. Also, I'm getting quotes for the engine and gearbox... Some rather scary prices being quoted. It's looking like I'm up for $10K+!!! Anyone want to sponsor??? ;)

That's it for now.

Skiboy

23rd March 2015, 09:54 AM

Re firewall clearance - did you consider (a) penel beating the firewall in (smash it) or (b) cut a section into the fire wall?

You will need to ensure there is no heat transference otherwise you will have heat or worse issues in the cab - to state the obvious

slug_burner

24th March 2015, 02:19 AM

Take your oil supply from the filter area, you can use a sandwich plate if you don't already have an outlet available.

stirlsilver

19th April 2015, 09:58 PM

So I haven't had a chance to post up an update for a few weeks. Things have been too hectic. A trip up to QLD for Easter and then this week I was away in Indonesia & Singapore. No progress this weekend, but I figured I should at least post up the progress from the previous weeks.

Regarding the oil supply for the turbos, I will bow to the opinion of well... everyone... and get the the oil from the outlet of the oil filter. I will run 1/4" hard line to each locations. It will look neater than braided hose running around everywhere.

Anyway, as for actual progress.

Because the intake manifold will be under pressure from the turbos, I needed to come up with some way to hold in the LPG injector nozzles from popping out. This is what I came up with and I think it will work perfectly well. Plus it looks reasonably neat (in my opinion).
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/1327.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/1328.jpg

I got AN to Banjo adaptors to allow me to hook the oil supply and drain to the turbos. Unfortunately AN uses a 37deg taper where as almost all other taper fittings are 45deg. Because of this 37deg pipe flare tools are expensive. So, I'm going to take a punt and see if the steel pipe flared at 45deg will seal. My gut feel is that it will. Below was a quick trial with a small piece of the 1/4" steel pipe which will form the oil supply line to the turbo. The drain will be a flexible line since it is a larger bore and will be too hard for me to bend.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/1329.jpg

This is what it all roughly looks like including the water water supply & drain fittings.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/1330.jpg

The channel clamps came in for the turbo dump pipes.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/1331.jpg

I only had enough time to fit one on the right hand side last weekend. It wasn't the easiest thing in the world since the welding deforms the machined mating faces. All up I think I will have two clamps on the right hand side dump pipe and only one on the left hand side. That should let me be able to pull everything apart when it is in the car.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/1332.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/1333.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/1334.jpg

It's all a VERY tight fit. Though I tested it and it is possible to get the clamp off even with this little space available between the pipe and the compressor bracket.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/1335.jpg

stirlsilver

26th April 2015, 07:17 PM

So we have cracked the 100,000 views on this thread!!! Not quite sure what to make of it though?!? Probably that I am taking too long to get this car up and running!!

Anyway, again a few more hours spent in the workshop this weekend.

I got some of the intake parts back from laser cutting (finally). Unfortunately I quickly found that I was a little bit too ambitious with the inside dimensions of the plenum flange.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/1336.jpg

With a little bit of cutting, it was all sorted. I then cut and inserted with thread locker studs into the intake manifold. All looked pretty good with the trial fitment.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/1337.jpg

I also checked the flange for the throttle bodies and it looked good also, but I didn't have the M6 all thread available so putting in the studs will need to come later.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/1338.jpg

I welded up the next joint on the RH down pipe which finished off that side. I'll leave an exhaust shop to finish the run from the end of the elbow.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/1339.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/1340.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/1341.jpg

Finally, I bent up and terminated the RH turbo oil line in 1/4" steel pipe. I was able to do the whole run in a single piece which was nice. It won't be so straight forward getting to the LH turbo all the way on the other side of the engine!!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/1342.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/1343.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/04/1344.jpg

That's it for the week! Till next week.

stirlsilver

5th May 2015, 11:29 PM

Righto, a quick update on some progress:
The flanges for the Vectra throttle bodies were drilled, tapped and had the studs fitted. So they are ready to go:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1593.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1594.jpg

I got the partially welded up Plenum. Unfortunately the guy doing the welding took a few creative liberties. The biggest one being that despite my drawing illustrating that I wanted the box to be welded on flush to the opening of the flange, they went ahead and welded in the 3mm plate on the INSIDE of the flange. So I've effectively lost 6mm and can't fit the assembly over the trumpets...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1595.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1596.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1597.jpg

So I've now got no choice but to shave off 3mm from all the trumpets to allow the assembly to go on. A compromise I really didn't want. But in hind sight what I may end up doing is removing the trumpets away. That is of course if I am happy with the amount of torque that I will get with shorter intake runners. I'll save that for when the car is actually running!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1598.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1599.jpg

And this is where you realise how BIG this plenum assembly actually is! I'm going to be needing to do some serious bonnet modifications later!!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1600.jpg

This is the only area I needed to look at carefully, the angled transition needs to make sure it doesn't foul with the brake master or the brake lines, so I took some measurements in this area. Unfortunately it means that I will need to make the RH transition 40deg off centre which isn't ideal, but I don't have much choice!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1601.jpg

Oh and the latest news is that the 4HP22 auto box with the 4HP24 internals will be ready by the end of this week! I'm going to have to order the engine soon!

That's it for tonight!

Disco Muppet

6th May 2015, 12:23 AM

I understand about 4 or 5 of the engineering/automotive related words in your posts.
But damn it's cool :cool:
Keep it up!

slug_burner

6th May 2015, 05:43 PM

If it's not done iaw the drawing you don't have to take it! Is it a paid job or a love job?

I suspect that you could arrange the charge coolers at a slight angle to use the space above the rocker covers and the flanges on the charge coolers are not required as you have a welded assembly.

I think it will be easier to get the brake lines re routed to give you maximum space for your turbo pipe work.

Looks like fun.

Skiboy

6th May 2015, 05:56 PM

I agree with slugburner getting new brake lines made and rerouted is the easier option and you might need that space anyway to service the new parts on top

Brake pipe is easy to bend and route. You just need to make up the pipe you want with lengths and bends (either with a tool or by hand) then get the ends done at a brake shop (unless you have your own tool)

This one is dead easy to use, fairly cheap and works perfectly on steel pipe
Austin Rover Hand Held on Car or Bench 3 16" Brake Pipe Line Flaring Tool Kit | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/271741432256?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT#vi-ilComp)

Before I got one of these tools I used to get my local shop to add the fittings based on my measurement using a length of string - I then bent them to fit the engine bay.

stirlsilver

9th May 2015, 11:07 PM

Thanks for the input guys. I will probably need to do some minor modifications to the brake lines leaving the master cylinder but either way I need to leave a little bit of space between the intake assembly and the master cylinder to fit your hand through!

I did another 6 or so hours in the workshop today, below is the progress.

The oil line for the LH turbo was bent up. I needed to do it out of two runs with a double union compression fitting half way. Below is how it all fits up on the test engine.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1602.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1603.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1604.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1605.jpg

I welded on the bottom V-clamp and elbow to the RH turbo dump pipe. I have one V-clamp left over which was intended to be placed just down stream of where the waste gate pipe joins the main dump pipe for easier disassembly. But I think I can get away with just having the one on the bottom.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1606.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1607.jpg

I also did the ambitious thing of welding in the turbo oil drain nipples onto the sump insitu. That was a whole world of pain due to not being able to get my head into a position where I could see!! Anyway I eventually got there after blowing only one hole into the sump! Lucky I have a spare sump pan. When the final engine build goes together I'll do any tidying up that is necessary at that point. For the purposes of the test engine, this is sufficient.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1608.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1609.jpg

As I've typed this I've just realised I forgot to get the measurement of the pipe lengths required to run the drain down to the sump! I guess I'm going to have to dash back to the workshop tomorrow!

One other thing I have done this evening is create a couple designs of a heat insulator strip which I will fit in two locations. One 5mm heat insulator between the intake manifold and the plenum trumpet base and another 5mm heat insulator between the plenum trumpet base and the plenum cover. Since I am mounting the intercooler cores directly onto the plenum I need to limit as much heat from the engine being conducted through the aluminum because the intercoolers would work as very efficient air heaters! below is the model of the intake to plenum base insulator.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1610.jpg

I'm even toying with the idea of cutting off the water coolant runners and thermostat housing which is cast onto the front of the intake manifold and welding up a separate assembly. The amount of heat that would be soaking from the hot water leaving the heads into the intake manifold would be ridiculous. Anyway, I will save that ambitious task for sometime in the future when the car is actually on the road!

With regards to the heat insulators, if anyone wants to buy some PM me because I will be arranging for some to be made in the coming weeks. If you want to understand what benefit there is in insulating intake components, have a read of this excellent article written for a Mazda V6:

AutoSpeed - Cool Stuff - Manifold Insulators (http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=110474)

Till next time.

stirlsilver

24th May 2015, 08:17 PM

Hello all, another update:

Some more go fast parts have arrived. The boost control solenoid I intend to use came in:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1611.jpg

I got Pirtek to make up the oil return lines for the turbos. $200+ for two ~500mm long hoses was a bit of a shock. But then again I needed to get them made out of teflon since they run so close to the exhaust manifolds:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1612.jpg

The turbos were bolted on with gaskets and the oil lines fitted. My measurements for the oil lines were pretty close to being spot on:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1613.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1614.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1615.jpg

Prior to hooking on the oil supply lines to the turbos, I flushed them by cranking the engine and letting oil flow into containers:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1616.jpg

Next up both permanent injector brackets were made up out of Aluminium plate. I needed to get creative with the TIG torch to heat up the Aluminium along the bend line so that the material didn't crack when it was folded which actually worked!:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1617.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1618.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1619.jpg

That's it for now, the 4HP22 with 4HP24 internals is now finished, ready for delivery and hopefully by the end of next week the intake manifold will be finished so that I can move on to hooking up the twin throttle bodies and then try to start the test engine with the turbos!

Jock The Rock

27th May 2015, 05:24 PM

stirlsilver

31st May 2015, 11:35 PM

Hey mate

Not to sure how much you plan on spending on this thing but with regards to your exhausts have you considered ceramic coating?

Apparently reduces ambient temps etc, I had just my dump pipe done. Mainly because the rest of the exhaust is stainless and the dump pipe was mild steel but also to help reduce the temperatures around the alternator and starter motor

Thread is awesome by the way, I often drop in to see where your up to

Hi Jock, thanks for your comment and suggestion. I hadn't actually thought about the ceramic coating. I'm guessing it is fairly expensive? I can see how the ceramic coating would reduce heat losses as the ceramic would have a lower thermal conductivity, but I'm assuming the thickness is say only 50-100microns?? I was originally thinking of wrapping the exhaust system in fibreglass possibly held in place with aluminium cladding... But that would be so fiddley to do!! Anyway, too early to be thinking of that. Need to see if the engine will run!!

A bit more time was spent in the workshop, this time my Girlfriend decided to come along and help which was a bit of a change! There is promise in making her a petrol head yet!

Anyway, for the actual progress. I've now got one of two blow off valves, I've opted to go for the OEM Bosch blow off valve. I don't need anything fancy and these valves supposedly never fail. I just need to hope I'll win the next Ebay bid for the second one!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1620.jpg

The injectors were all plumbed back up and connected.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1621.jpg

Then in addition to making up some gaskets for the throttle bodies and what not, we moved on to the wiring of the rear tail lights since the plenum isn't ready yet. In sticking with the OEM appearance I disassembled a connector I plucked out of a car from the wrecker and used it. Thanks to all the wire I ripped out of the discovery I tore apart in Melbourne I was able to stick with the original OEM wire colour codes.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1622.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1623.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1624.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1625.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/1626.jpg

That makes the RH tail lights and the trailer plug nearly complete, I might move on to the LH tail lights next week, but I suspect I will be having a lot more fun with the motor. Maybe even starting it with the turbos plumbed up!! To do nothing more than make lots of noise in the shed!

Till next time.

stirlsilver

31st May 2015, 11:41 PM

By the way, does anyone have the crimper that suits the hose clamps which are on the LPG injector outlet nozzles? I've just got the hose clamps sitting loosely on the tubes since I don't have the crimper. Anyone with the tool willing to lend it would be a great help!!

stirlsilver

3rd June 2015, 08:47 PM

crash

6th June 2015, 10:06 PM

The intake manifold heat insulators are ready. Just need to trial them to see how close my measurements are :) Get in touch if you would like a set.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/681.jpg (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/stirlsilver/media/Discovery%20Build/Bakelite%20Parts_zpsqmen1qhi.jpg.html)

What are they made off? And where did you get them made - or did you make them yourselves?

stirlsilver

8th June 2015, 10:45 PM

What are they made off? And where did you get them made - or did you make them yourselves?
They are made from Phenolic Laminate, after looking through some material data I found it had the best thermal resistivity with high compressive strength. I had a look at Polyethylene & Polypropylene but they didn't quite have the compressive strength necessary. Also a pretty low melting temperature. I get them CNC cut, I wish I had such a machine!!

Anyway, on with the update from the long weekend. The intake manifold heat insulators were trialled and fit perfectly :D

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/1057.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/1058.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/1059.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/1060.jpg

To prepare for the assembly of the engine loom I needed extra connectors. So I went to the local Pick A Part and raided a number of old cars for connectors which I know can be easily disassembled.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/1061.jpg

The wiring of the rear tail lights was completed on both sides. Below is a photo of the LH loom which includes the lines for the LPG tank solenoids and fuel level sender.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/1062.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/1063.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/1064.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/1065.jpg

The car starting to come to life! The Indicator, Brake, Tail & Indicators all working.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/1066.jpg

The temporary exhaust system was welded onto the test engine. While it would have been nice to hear it without the silencer, I really need the wide band sensor in the exhaust system when I start the engine. As for the welding... I used the opportunity to do some more stick welding, oh man I have a long way to go with my stick welding skills.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/1067.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/1068.jpg

I wired up and tested the pulse width modulation on the boost control solenoid with the ECU and compressed air, all working well.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/1069.jpg

In a similar way I tested the Idle Control Valves, though these valves need a vacuum present so I won't fully know until I have them on the engine and running.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/1070.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/1071.jpg

The plenum assembly is all welded up as well and was ready on Friday, but I didn't have a chance to collect. I'll try to do so tomorrow before flying to to Singapore tomorrow night.

And that's about it!

stirlsilver

9th June 2015, 05:11 PM

The plenum-intercooler assembly is now in my hands. Can't wait to bolt it all together with the throttle bodies and crank the test engine over when I get back :D:D
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/1072.jpg

stirlsilver

22nd June 2015, 12:18 AM

The weekly update.

Trial fitted the intercooler-plenum assembly on the car to make sure there weren't any surprises. Thankfully everything fit together the way it should have :D
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/1073.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/1074.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/1075.jpg

Derrick paid a visit and lent a helping hand which was greatly appreciated. The intercooler-plenum was bolted in place on the test engine along with the throttle bodies. I discovered that it was near impossible for me to reach the bolts connecting the plenum to the plenum base in the middle. There was simply too much in the way. Anyway, I think the assembly being bolted down in the corners will be fine.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/1076.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/1077.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/1078.jpg

Here are a couple of other shots, not a whole lot of gap between the intercooler core and the turbo! I planned it to be that way though! You can see the stud in the middle which is missing the nut. That's the one I couldn't reach... Design flaw...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/1079.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/1080.jpg

The engine was started with the turbos and intake system, and everything appeared to be fine. The idle control valves on the throttle bodies work, but more work is needed to set the controller to prevent oscillation.

After a few hours of testing, I moved on to making a start on the engine loom. I managed to finish the injector wiring loom with the length necessary to reach under the driver's side seat, which is where I plan to place the ECU.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/1081.jpg

And in other news, the new engine is now on order from Triumph Rover Spares. When it arrives it will be a case of transferring all the parts over and fitting it into the car!!

That's it for now.