Stirlsilver's Disco Ute Project

[stirlsilver]

Hi All,
Well, after a long time of putting up with the leaf springs, drum brakes and non power steered Series 3 Stage 1 I decided (after some nagging by a few people) to start another project.

I've bought SPROVER's old 92 disco and the plan is to cut it down into a tray back ute... it seems that there is a few projects of this nature going at the moment. Why a ute? Well, my series 3 is a ute and when taking it off road I really appreciated the luxury of having half the amount of panels to dent. A tray if built solidly enough will handle sliding into rocks, banks and even trees.

It's going to be a long term project, and at this stage i'm thinking of cutting the body half way down the rear doors, doing all the necessary work to finish the body and make it look decent. Fabricate up a short tray, fit 35's and do all the necessary spring, spring mount, shock & shock mount modifications to get the articulation and flex I want. I'll build a tubular frame around the car, I don't intend to use a bull bar. To finish it off at this stage i'm thinking of building a twin turbo 3.9L LPG V8 engine for it on an auto box, the turbos will be fairly small as I would want them to come in early in the rev range so that they are useful while 4wding. And yes I know a supercharger is better for this but I want to try with two small turbos and see how it goes. Of course all the other things will be done, lockers and what not.

Anyway, time for some photos. I have only just paid for the car so I'll soon be taking it to the workshop to start working on it. This is going to be a long term project and I intend to use my stage 1 in the mean time, but when this is finished the stage 1 will be sold.

This is the car which will be worked on:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/813.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/814.jpg

As a first step of this build, I intend to make some prototypes in SolidWorks so I can get a decent idea of the proportions I am after. After a solid night of searching on the net I found a model I could work with, although it was incredibly detailed! The model was made by another guy in 3D Studio Max who posted on some russian website that I came across. I definitely didn't make this model:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/815.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/816.jpg

Because i'm not at all familiar with 3D Studio Max I figured out how to export it and loaded it into SolidWorks which is what I will use for my concepts. Not a pretty sight here!:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/817.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/818.jpg

Over the coming days i'll start giving the model a virtual chop and start trying to determine some proportions before taking the grinder to the car and starting to build.

[Slunnie]

Jeez, you'd think he would have sold it with the headlights included. :D


Sounds like you'll be having a lot of fun with this!

[awabbit6]

Looks like an interesting project. I look forward to watching your progress.

Do you have a link to the 3ds file for the Disco? It would be good to have to play around with.

Paul

[rangieman]

Good one stirling let me know when your ready to do the chop ill bring rossco:eek:and our 9" grinders;):p

[long stroke]

Oh yeah this one sounds good:twisted:
Can't wait until you get it started:)
The twin turbo 3.9 sounds good to!!, i've always wanted to turbo a rover v8;)

CHEERS TIM.

[stirlsilver]

Here is where I got the 3D Studio Max model from:
3DCar :: ?????? ??????????? (http://3dcar.ru/models/'mode=section&id=1)
it is in that long list under "Land Rover Discovery 2"

Another model I did find in my search, but was not willing to pay for was this one:
3D CAD Browser - 3D Model Preview - Land Rover Discovery (1996) (http://www.3dcadbrowser.com/preview.aspx?ModelCode=3773)

One thing I was never able to find was a decent drawing or model of the discovery chassis. Man that would be handy.

[Chucaro]

Have a look THIS (http://www.cadforum.cz/catalog_en/?vyr=Land+Rover) site
You may have to become a member but is good

[McDisco]

Stirl

Sounds good mate. What sort of timeframe are you giving yourself? Got to work to a schedule otherwise it may take forever...

Let me know if you need any extra hands...would love to help out.

Cheers

Angus

[sclarke]

Watching with keen interest.......
Not that i want one... but still interested..

[rovercare]

I had twin turbos on a 302 in my rangie before I cut that one into a tray, less HP than the N/A 351, but ow how 6psi at convertor stall speed add's torque:cool:

[V8Landy]

Sounds good Stirlo. I would love a Disco ute but with kids it is a bit impractical. Watching with interest

[shorty disco]

are you looking at extending the chassis as well?

[stirlsilver]

Jeez, you'd think he would have sold it with the headlights included. :D

Lights are included :D They are just sitting in the boot. Although engine, gearbox and transfer case doesn't come with it... and it looks like no radiator either.


Stirl

Sounds good mate. What sort of timeframe are you giving yourself? Got to work to a schedule otherwise it may take forever...

Let me know if you need any extra hands...would love to help out.

Hey angus,
Hard to say on the time frame. You are right though, if you have no deadline it can just drag on... Perhaps 1 year at this stage? I intend to spend $500 a month on the project. So it will take a while to get all the bits a pieces!

Thanks for the offer to help out though! Will keep it in mind.


I had twin turbos on a 302 in my rangie before I cut that one into a tray, less HP than the N/A 351, but ow how 6psi at convertor stall speed add's torque:cool:
Yep, that's what i'm hoping for, get them to kick in nice and low. I don't want to run intercoolers so i'm going to have to select the right compressor map for the engine... that will come later though. And I suppose I will need a decent transmission fluid cooler too!


are you looking at extending the chassis as well?
No, I'll either leave it as is or perhaps shorten it a bit. When I start sizing a tray on the SolidWorks model i'll have an idea of what looks right.

I've started chopping up the model, looks like it would need to be cut somewhere around here, with the standard 29" tyres it seems there is about 200mm clearance between the tyres and the body, so 35's would fit if cut somewhere around this area.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/792.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/793.jpg

When i've finished trimming it down i'll then try to build up a rear wall and move onto a tray concept.

[sschmez]

Sounds great mate,
I'll be watching with interest.:cool:

[McDisco]

That 3D modeling is awesome...really allows you to start visualizing things. It will definitely help cause some rangie or disco utes sometimes look out of proportion.

Angus

[stirlsilver]

Hi all,
I've had some progress on the model. I still have to figure out how I would shape the joint between the rear doors and the rear wall. It would be great if people could comment on the shaping so far.

I upsized the tyres from 29" to 35"... they definitely don't fit with standard ride height!:D

I can already see that the shaping of the roof is going to be very difficult... I can already see myself cursing about it when it comes time to actually do it. But I really want to avoid simply cutting it and having it flat with the rear wall.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/677.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/678.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/679.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/680.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/681.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/682.jpg

[dullbird]

would it be possible to use a range rover roof?

just thinking might make life easier for you in regards to the disco step down...so you wont have to encompass a slope

[stirlsilver]

Thanks for the suggestion. But I think i'll stick with the disco roof, I don't think the flat range rover roof would look quite right. I don't know how I'll shape the rear of the roof like the way I've shown... but I'll figure something out. I'll just have to take my time with it.

What do people think of the shape of the rear wall so far?? Yay or nay?

[stirlsilver]

Well, I suppose silence is the sign of consent eh?

This is what it all looks like with the rear wall finished off, lifting the body by 2" and adding the basic shape of a 1.8m x 1.3m tray.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/643.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/644.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/645.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/646.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/647.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/648.jpg

I admit, the rear wall is looking a bit flat panel-ish... which makes it look a bit cheap, but I am thinking of perhaps only doing the chamfered section in the region near the wheels (to act like arches) and bringing the center section out to give more room inside the cabin. Thing is, with the complicated profile of the door it will be very difficult to make something that looks nicer for the rear wall... Maybe I need to think about that a little more.

According to the model this shape has 6" of space from the head rest to the rear wall and 15" of space at the base of the seat to the rear wall.

With the tray where it is shown it sits about 1.2m above ground level and gives about 15" of space above the tyres.

[Waxenwane]

Hey Stirl, I think one way of finishing the rear would be to use the back door section of the rear bodywork. It would have a lot of inherent stiffness and the hole where the door sits could be filled with panel steel. The height of it would have to be reduced but the roof end is there to play with, if you know what I mean.

[Boxer]

All you need now is an angle grinder :)

[stirlsilver]

Gotta get the car down to the workshop now :)

[Jock The Rock]

Hey mate

Have you seen these threads? They are both built from a Disco II but still roughly the same concept

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members-rides/33722-discovery-2a-ute.html

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/74432-disco-ute.html

They use the back panel of a Courier or Mazda I think, and dont look too bad, and almost look factory. Just an idea as it seems you want to do it well

Also there is a mob in the UK that does the roofs as a kit. They advertised in one of the UK Landrover magazines a couple of months ago. I can take a picture of the ad for you if you like?

Be keen to watch the build :)

[disco2hse]

Hi Stirl

Those projects are great too, I reckon.

Thing is, if you want to create something for comp-ing then what you are putting together is probably about right, but if you want something for general use I really think those rear wheels are too far forward. It looks like a Hot Wheels at the moment unless you can do something with that roof line.

Cheers
Alan

[stirlsilver]

Hey mate

Have you seen these threads? They are both built from a Disco II but still roughly the same concept

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members-rides/33722-discovery-2a-ute.html

Disco ute (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/74432-disco-ute.html)

They use the back panel of a Courier or Mazda I think, and dont look too bad, and almost look factory. Just an idea as it seems you want to do it well

Also there is a mob in the UK that does the roofs as a kit. They advertised in one of the UK Landrover magazines a couple of months ago. I can take a picture of the ad for you if you like?

Be keen to watch the build :)


Thanks for the links, I had seen discoute's thread but I hadn't seen the one by rover smith.

I think one of the major advantages they had were that the skins of the discovery 2 were made from steel so they could weld their rear wall to the sides... where as the disco I have is still from aluminium... so that's going to make things interesting when it comes to joining the door skins to the rear wall... I might look into using the rear wall of a mazda... but if not I'll make it from flat panels and add some stiffening creases to make it look a little more factory. I think I'll have to decide when I get to that point.

I would appreciate the copy of the ad, I doubt the roof will finish in the spot I want but it would be good to see for some ideas.


Hi Stirl

Those projects are great too, I reckon.

Thing is, if you want to create something for comp-ing then what you are putting together is probably about right, but if you want something for general use I really think those rear wheels are too far forward. It looks like a Hot Wheels at the moment unless you can do something with that roof line.

Cheers
Alan

Hey alan,
Yeah I know it is looking a little comp-ish... but the aim is to build a road legal play car. Definitely not something I intend to use to buy the groceries. I know what you mean with the rear wheels being too far in... but I want to avoid lengthening the chassis.

By the way, I know you can't have a road legal disco on 35" tyres, so I'll have to settle with 33" on the modification plate but when I go out to play I'll run 35's.

[Jock The Rock]

Thanks for the links, I had seen discoute's thread but I hadn't seen the one by rover smith.

I think one of the major advantages they had were that the skins of the discovery 2 were made from steel so they could weld their rear wall to the sides... where as the disco I have is still from aluminium... so that's going to make things interesting when it comes to joining the door skins to the rear wall... I might look into using the rear wall of a mazda... but if not I'll make it from flat panels and add some stiffening creases to make it look a little more factory. I think I'll have to decide when I get to that point.

I would appreciate the copy of the ad, I doubt the roof will finish in the spot I want but it would be good to see for some ideas.


Bugger I didnt know about the alloy skins:(

There was an article on those truck cabs in the December 08 issue of Landrover Monthly but instead of posting up photos. This is the website instead Custom Cab (http://www.longranger.net/page4/page3/page3.html) :)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/516.jpg

If you can get hold of the Febuary 09 issue of Landrover Monthly. That has a big article on a fella who has done almost exactly what you are doing. If you go to that website he had an email address, so I reckon you could ask him a few questions through there. Cobra Offroad Motorsport (http://www.cobra-offroad.co.uk/)

Heres some photos:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/517.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/518.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/519.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/520.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/521.jpg

[stirlsilver]

Well, there hasn't been an update for a while. Mainly because the last 3 weeks or so wayne and I have been doing a clean up operation of his workshop. It's taken a very long time but we are getting there. Some shots below.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/977.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/978.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/979.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/980.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/981.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/982.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/983.jpg

Still have some more tidying up to do but it's 90% done.

If all goes well tonigh, i'll be collecting the discovery from chris on saturday :) and then it will be off to book the engineer to discuss the plans.

[Rangier Rover]

Nice work shop.... A good uncluttered work environment does help I can tell you. I think you should look at an extra 10" or a little more in the chassis if you want it to be a real ute. I have a 120" 110 and its still bloody good off road, in some cases will climb up things that a 100 wont.

Still watching this one with interest:)

Cheers Tony

[stirlsilver]

Nice work shop.... A good uncluttered work environment does help I can tell you. I think you should look at an extra 10" or a little more in the chassis if you want it to be a real ute. I have a 120" 110 and its still bloody good off road, in some cases will climb up things that a 100 wont.

Still watching this one with interest:)

Cheers Tony

Cheers for the info tony, I don't know if I want to go down the chassis extension route. I'm not looking to make it into a ute that I can carry things around in. The tray just needs to be big enough to cary enough gear for when we go out of a run or out on a short camping trip. Will see. I'll have to revisit my 3d model of the car and make sure I am happy with where it is all at before starting to cut.

Anyway...

It was a big day yesterday. Finally picked up the disco and took it in to the workshop:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/634.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/635.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/636.jpg

My intention was to build up some trolleys to fit under each of the 4 wheels so that the car could be pushed around in the workshop much more easily. The design I had come up with was something like below:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/637.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/638.jpg

The concept looked good so I went out and bought all the materials including the 16 5" castors on ebay.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/639.jpg

It was around midnight by the time we had finished doing some final touch ups to the worshop (it is much much neater that is shown in the photos above) so we moved on to knocking up the trolleys and bolting on the castors, the idea was to use them straight away to position the car inside the workshop. By the time the 4 trolleys were finished it was somewhere around 2am... we put them under the car and discovered that we couldn't move the car!

The mistake? I had purchased rubber wheel castors and they were gripping so hard onto the concrete floor that it was simply impossible shift the car. Bit disappointing really. Ended up having to use the trolley jack to get the car into position. I didn't take any photos of the finished trolleys as it was around 3:30am by the time we got the car into its final resting place and all I wanted to do by this point is go home.

So does anyone know where I can find some cheapish hard plastic (or metal) castors? The frames work a treat... it's just the castors that were the major failure here!

Also, another question, what do people think the best method is of going about the project in relation to the engineer. Should I get him to come in before I start to do anything, to discuss what I intend to do and what they would be looking or should I build it, then show it to the engineer say half way through and then at the end?

[BigJon]

You could take the rubber tyres off your castor wheels and just run on the rims...

[DeeJay]

Quote
"Also, another question, what do people think the best method is of going about the project in relation to the engineer. Should I get him to come in before I start to do anything, to discuss what I intend to do and what they would be looking or should I build it, then show it to the engineer say half way through and then at the end?"

Stirl,
I got the engineer out for my project before I got really stuck into it. I'm not sure if I had to though, as he came out half way through it anyway and then I presented it to them at the finish. They charged me $125.00 for each visit & all I did at the start was outline what I wanted to do to him and he just nodded. I reckon if you can demonstrate that your project is fairly common then I would say just get him out halfway & actually get some value out of the visit because by then you may have some questions.

[stirlsilver]

Stirl,
I got the engineer out for my project before I got really stuck into it. I'm not sure if I had to though, as he came out half way through it anyway and then I presented it to them at the finish. They charged me $125.00 for each visit & all I did at the start was outline what I wanted to do to him and he just nodded. I reckon if you can demonstrate that your project is fairly common then I would say just get him out halfway & actually get some value out of the visit because by then you may have some questions.

Thanks for the info David, greatly appreciated! I think I will do it that way. I think doing a check half way will be very important because it gives you the opportunity to correct most things without having to undo too much of your work. Do you have the details of the engineer that you used? By the way I saw you today driving your County today. Turning off Jells onto Grand View.

So plan of action at this stage.

Looks like I'll have to go in this week with the laptop and start checking how close the 3d model is with the actual thing. Then with a yellow paint marker (or similar) I'll start drawing where the cut lines will be. The cutting won't be long after that. :twisted:

[disco_ute]

You will have a ball stirlsilver nothing like building a custom car! Discos are a bit harder then rangies but nothing a bit of fancy welding and sikaflex can fix!!

Mick

[dullbird]

So which AULRO member did you get the car off to chop up?

[stirlsilver]

You will have a ball stirlsilver nothing like building a custom car! Discos are a bit harder then rangies but nothing a bit of fancy welding and sikaflex can fix!!

Mick

Cheers Mick. My welding needs some work for sure, but i'm sure I will get plenty of practice with this project. It's going to go slow though, $500 a month for a budget is very restrictive. Ahh well, i'll get there eventually.


So which AULRO member did you get the car off to chop up?

I'm guessing you are asking because of the sticker on the back of the car huh? The car is SPROVER's old disco.

[dullbird]

yeah I was.......cool one good thing about those stickers is you know the car has belonged to someone from the site at least once :D

[stirlsilver]

Well, that was quick... I just received the new castors today:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/521.jpg

16 x 3" Nylon castors each rated to 120Kg. They should do the job.

I think I will have to hop on ebay and sell those 5" rubber wheel castors because they are essentially useless. On thursday night i'll head over to the workshop and attach the castors onto the frames. I'll then hopefully be able to push the car around on the concrete relatively easily!

[stirlsilver]

Well, swapped the castors over and it works! I was only just able to get away with the smaller castors as the tyres only sit about 5mm above the ground!

Sorry about the crap photos... I took them with my mobile phone...

The comparison between the trolleys with the different castors:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/426.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/427.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/428.jpg

The car now sitting on the trolleys:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/429.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/430.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/431.jpg

It is still a bit of a hand full to shift the car around on the castors but it is possible now :D

I've now started pulling things off the back end to sell. Gotta put my ebay hat on again.

[DeeJay]

"Quote"
Thanks for the info David, greatly appreciated! I think I will do it that way. I think doing a check half way will be very important because it gives you the opportunity to correct most things without having to undo too much of your work. Do you have the details of the engineer that you used? By the way I saw you today driving your County today. Turning off Jells onto Grand View."

Just catching up on topics. I'm a bit behind.:(

Yup
The old girl has been earning its keep lately. That could have been when I had a half metre of premix on board. You should have seen me on the way out with a load for the tip.:eek:

The engineer is an Vicroads approved one.
this is the Vicroads website : Approval certificates for modified, imported, and individually constructed vehicles - VASS : VicRoads (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/RoadSafety/VehicleSafety/ApprovalCertificatesVASS.htm)
They are the ones in Ferntree Gully
Phillip Hodges factory 4/69 Acacia st Ph 9753 5200 MOB 0419103162

Fred smith uses one that could be a bit cheaper - but further away. Not sure who it is.
Cheers

[stirlsilver]

Thanks again for the info David.

Well, I was playing in the workshop again tonight, pulling more things out of the back end of the car in preparation for the cut. This is where it is all at now... Not all that much different, but this time I used a proper camera :)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/389.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/390.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/391.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/392.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/393.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/394.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/395.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/396.jpg

After I had enough of pulling things off the car, I pulled out a laptop and carried out a dimension check between the car and the 3D model I was using for the conceptual design. And I was VERY pleased with the results!!!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/397.jpg

It is way more accurate than I had expected with most dimensions only being 0.5% out which is negligeble, the most inaccurate area of the model seems to be the interior... although measuring the spacing between the seats was difficult. Anyway having a model that actually represents the real thing is a great thing to have because what I will do now is take measurements off the model to mark where the cut lines will be.

Once the back end is off I will try to as accurately as possible model the chassis and start the design of the tray and various other bits an pieces.

On a side note, i've figured out how to render the model :D

It doesn't look quite right because the whole body along with the interior is the same material, there is too much time involved in isolating various pieces from each other. But it will be good at the end to decide what colour I want to paint the car!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/398.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/399.jpg

[disco2hse]

Hey there Stirling,

Have you thought of perhaps sloping the top of the rear cab wall you will be adding forward? Instead of it coming straight up it would take the eye away from the shorter wheelbase which at the moment is accentuated by having the rear wall straight. The windscreen slopes backward, you can also have the rear glass slope forward but of course without as much rake.

Not sure if is just me but looks as though the edge of the windscreen (if you look at it sideways) points at the front axle. What happens if you give the back wall the same treatment, by pointing its edge at the rear axle (if you look at it sideways)?

Just a thought. I am going to follow this thread with some real interest :)

Alan

[stirlsilver]

Hey there Stirling,

Have you thought of perhaps sloping the top of the rear cab wall you will be adding forward? Instead of it coming straight up it would take the eye away from the shorter wheelbase which at the moment is accentuated by having the rear wall straight. The windscreen slopes backward, you can also have the rear glass slope forward but of course without as much rake.

Not sure if is just me but looks as though the edge of the windscreen (if you look at it sideways) points at the front axle. What happens if you give the back wall the same treatment, by pointing its edge at the rear axle (if you look at it sideways)?

Just a thought. I am going to follow this thread with some real interest :)

Alan

Hi Alan,
Thanks for the suggestion. I had a quick play and this is what I came up with, I've pushed the top of the rear wall forward by 50mm. Shifting it forward anymore than that and it gets complicated because I have to cut the model again further forward and rebuild the roof and door panels.

I'll have to decide which one I like better.

This is what it looks like now:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/380.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/381.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/382.jpg

[disco2hse]

Yeah, cool. Subtle change but I think it makes the whole thing look that much more 'whole' if you get my meaning. Basically makes the rear cabin wall look like it is part of the design rather than the part where the rest of the cabin was chopped off.

I like the change but I think a bit more would be better (you know, bit more left, more left, more left. No, move it right, more right, up a bit,... :D )

Alan

[Casper]

I think you should find that the roof is steel so it shouldnt be too much of a problem to match up, I would try to cut and shut the rear section of the roof to give to the factory look if it is possible.

Where you join the side panels to the rear panels I would try and use the old inner door fram and just skin it like a normal door but weld it to the rear frame.

Then panel the rear panel and mastic up the gap as you wont be able to join the ally skins neatly.

I also think it would look better a few inches longer, I know this would make it slightly less capable but would look a hell of a lot more in proportion and a bit more of a factory look.....if thats what your after.

Looks like fun, I might try something like this when I eventually get a shed :(

[stirlsilver]

Thanks for the info casper, I will try to blend the roof along with adding the gutter in as best as I can. Will see how I go when I get there.

I was in the workshop again today I've now pulled off the rear bumper and I have started to mark things up.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/341.jpg

Getting the markings across the top of the roof proved to be a bit of a challenge as there wasn't any good reference points. I had to measure back from the windshield on 5 different locations using lengths off the model. I got a straight line which I am happy about.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/342.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/343.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/344.jpg

After going to all the hassle of marking up the roof section when I looked at it I realised that the roof really needs to be cut about 100mm further forward to allow a slight slope on the rear window and a nice curvature on the roof. The yellow line on the roof shows where originally I was going to start the curve of the roof.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/345.jpg

But after taking Alans comments onboard I went back and spent another 4 hours on the model to shift the point where the roof curves (very painful process). Next time I am in the workshop I'm going to have to get back up onto the roof and put another yellow line to match the new design.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/346.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/347.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/348.jpg

Slope of the rear window is now finalised, I might tinker with the rear pillars a bit more but that isn't a huge issue. Also i'm not liking the shape and position of the rear window, again something else that is easy to fix and can be taken care of later.

For anyone that is curious...this is what too much slope looks like (in my opinion)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/349.jpg

I do have a question. I was taking a look at the body mount and found that the second last set (from the rear) of body outriggers are just infront of the rear wheel arch... This is a problem, because I am cutting about 200mm or so further forward from this point and it looks like there is nothing to nearby to support the body in this area. So I'm going to have to cut off the outriggers and reweld them onto the chassis just infront of where I cut. Does anyone have any suggestions on this? Perhaps there is a better way of getting around this?

[long stroke]

Looking very nice!!:cool:
Can't wait to this is done, i like the look of all your drawings you've done, but your last ones to me look the best;)
Love the idea of a nice high tray, i've seen some flat tray ute disco's and i reckon they look a bit funny with a realy low tray:)
IMO, the hight you've chosen is just right;)
If possable maybe make it a tiny bit longer in the roof to take some slope out of the rear window:)

CHEERS TIM.

[4wd4fun]

Hi Stirling Looking real good.:D:D
I like the way you are using the modeling program first saves a lot of work and errors later.
I thought about chopping My 2 door,but it is still whole.
Couple of picks i did In paint to show what I was looking at liitle rough but as i said only used Paint in pictures.
Also played with D3 some one might do some day.
STD UTE
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/2669/20080623031utenospare.jpg
BOB shortened UTE Styleside
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/6824/bobute.jpg
And D3
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Keep up excelent work can not wait to see finished vehicle based on your designs.
Cheers Allan (4wd4fun)

[stirlsilver]

Looking very nice!!:cool:
Can't wait to this is done, i like the look of all your drawings you've done, but your last ones to me look the best;)
Love the idea of a nice high tray, i've seen some flat tray ute disco's and i reckon they look a bit funny with a realy low tray:)
IMO, the hight you've chosen is just right;)
If possable maybe make it a tiny bit longer in the roof to take some slope out of the rear window:)

CHEERS TIM.

Thanks for the comments Tim. I think I am happy with the angle of the rear window now. No doubt it will change. I'll wait until I have cut it all away and start working on building up the new back end.

With the tray I haven't decided on how it will look just yet, but yep I do want it to be reasonably high so that it won't foul with the tyres and lets me keep a decent departure angle. When I cut the body off and have the chassis exposed i'll measure it up to make a representation in the model, then I will start up desiging the tray.


Hi Stirling Looking real good.:D:D
I like the way you are using the modeling program first saves a lot of work and errors later.
I thought about chopping My 2 door,but it is still whole.
Couple of picks i did In paint to show what I was looking at liitle rough but as i said only used Paint in pictures.
Also played with D3 some one might do some day.

Keep up excelent work can not wait to see finished vehicle based on your designs.
Cheers Allan (4wd4fun)

Cheers Allan, some photo shopping certainly does do the trick eh? I did consider a styleside, but when you are off road what gets belted the most is the rear end. So having a tray back car you effectively have 50% less car to dent!



Does anyone have a comment on my question on the shifting of the outrigger?

[Disco_ute84]

For angle of the rear window you might be able to use the quarter windows including the frame from the rear doors for the glass behind the B pillar. This will give you glass on the right angle and curve that already has a frame to suit.

Cheers,

Tim

[disco_ute]

For angle of the rear window you might be able to use the quarter windows including the frame from the rear doors for the glass behind the B pillar. This will give you glass on the right angle and curve that already has a frame to suit.

Cheers,

Tim

this is what i did on mine makes things a lot easier give you a little better vision for head chking

Mick

[stirlsilver]

Spent a couple of nights finishing up gutting out the back end of the car.

Pulled down the headliner and found HEAPS of dust, I had to whip out the vaccuum cleaner and suck it all off because it was getting everywhere:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/48.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/49.jpg

Once that was all done I moved on to the rear doors and removed everything from them except the latches.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/50.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/51.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/52.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/53.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/54.jpg

I also got under the car and disconnected everything that would have gotten caught up when pulling the back part of the body off. So the car is pretty much ready to be cut. All the lines are marked so i'm aiming to do it next weekend. :D

[dullbird]

watching with great interest...thanks for the pics so far :)

[cal415]

Argggg,,, get to the cutting the suspense is killing me !! :)

[Waxenwane]

I've given the 9" slicers and dicers a service...................:twisted:
Lets get to it:D

[stirlsilver]

First encounter. Land Rover Discovery and Mr. 9" Grinder.

I really don't think I need to say much more ;)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/1324.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/1325.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/1326.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/1327.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/1328.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/1329.jpg

[disco2hse]

Just out of curiosity, will you be keeping the hinges on the back doors? Or will they come off, in which case will the panels still line up with your cut marks.

You have a lot more courage to do that sort of thing than me :)

Alan

[SPROVER]

And so the cutting begins:D :D:D Keep the pics coming.

[stirlsilver]

Just out of curiosity, will you be keeping the hinges on the back doors? Or will they come off, in which case will the panels still line up with your cut marks.

You have a lot more courage to do that sort of thing than me :)

Alan

Hi Alan,
The hinges will be taken off. The plan is to make up some plates that will space the door out the right amount for it to sit in the same closed position without the hinges. At this stage I'll probably drill and tap the spacer blocks and bolt the doors onto them. And I will seal between the body and the door with a bead of polyeurathane sealant.

Ok for an update:

I pulled off the skins from the parts of the doors that were cut off. They may come in handy, so it is best to hold on to them for now.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/1241.jpg

Anyway, today I went in to the workshop and whipped out the 9" grinder again and took to the body of the car... after making sure everything was cut, the body mount bolts were taken off and we wheeled the A frame over the car with a couple of chain blocks. And off it went (The photos pretty well speak for themselves).

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/1242.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/1243.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/1244.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/1245.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/1246.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/1247.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/1248.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/1249.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/1250.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/1251.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/1252.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/1253.jpg

I ended up discovering that while the body was in the air it made a pretty handy work bench over the chassis.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/1254.jpg

I pulled out the fuel lines and fuel vapour lines along with the fuel tank. These items aren't needed as I intend to build an LPG only engine.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/1255.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/1256.jpg

And that is it for now.

[disco2hse]

Hi Alan,
The hinges will be taken off. The plan is to make up some plates that will space the door out the right amount for it to sit in the same closed position without the hinges. At this stage I'll probably drill and tap the spacer blocks and bolt the doors onto them. And I will seal between the body and the door with a bead of polyeurathane sealant.

Cool. I see. :)

Great pictures. Woohoo :banana: :banana: :thumbsup:

Nothing like a big step to make all the annoying little steps worthwhile.

Alan

[stirlsilver]

Not a very interesting update as I've only been able to spend one night in the workshop this week (I'm off to Thailand tomorrow for work again).

What I have started doing is taking measurements off the car so that I can add some more detail to my model of the structual points on the body. I need this information so that I can design the frame of rear wall. How it ties into the sill and roof structure and also onto the rear outriggers.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/914.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/915.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/916.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/917.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/918.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/919.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/920.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/921.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/922.jpg

Using the measurements I got I have been able to put in these details onto the model (in green)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/923.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/924.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/925.jpg

I've decided that the first job to tackle will be the roof and the roof gutter. I think that the best method in forming the rear part of the roof is not through panel beating but by using fibre glass. At this stage i'm thinking of forming up the guttering that goes around the back of the roof and then using metal mesh that is spot welded to the guttering and formed to the desired shape. Once I have achieved the right shape I need out of mesh, I then place a few layers of fibre glass on it to finish it off.

The first step before being able to do any of the forming of the roof though is getting the gutter made up and welded on so I can use it as the ending profile for the roof. I was thinking something like below, the top half can be used to join the roof to the gutter and the bottom half can be used to join the wall to the gutter.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/926.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/927.jpg

I just can't really figure out a decent way to fabricate the gutter since the pieces are small, welding will only cause them all to deform. Ideally, you would fold the outside edge but the corners make that difficult also... Hmm...

[McDisco]

Cant wait to see the finished product Stirl! The mock ups look very sweet!

Are you keeping the current engine? How about whacking in a 4.6 stroker?!

Angus

[disco2hse]

Fibreglass will probably allow more scope for the unexpected and is more forgiving. But, oh, the sanding!

Putting the gutter round the back will be a major advantage I reckon, just remember to put some drain holes behind the driver and passenger doors, you know, like on the ute cab roof on the Stage 1 ;)

Alan

[loanrangie]

Way too much thought going into this, just cut and shut the f@cker and be done with it :p.

[disco_ute]

Yr basing yr computer model on the fact that the land rover body and chassis is going to be the same on both sides.... i had 15mm difference at the body mounts on the chassis from right to left when i cut my rangie up and 10mm 10 40mm when i cut the disco. I had to cut the c pillar mount with a grinder to match the driverside and in the end I had to shim the body mounts to keep it level so it didnt **** with the doors and panel alignment!!

Keep up the good work and good luck just remember somethings aren't ment to be mm perfect! It will just do yr head in!

Mick

[stirlsilver]

Way too much thought going into this, just cut and shut the f@cker and be done with it :p.

I'm an engineer... thinking is what I do! :p


Yr basing yr computer model on the fact that the land rover body and chassis is going to be the same on both sides.... i had 15mm difference at the body mounts on the chassis from right to left when i cut my rangie up and 10mm 10 40mm when i cut the disco. I had to cut the c pillar mount with a grinder to match the driverside and in the end I had to shim the body mounts to keep it level so it didnt **** with the doors and panel alignment!!

Keep up the good work and good luck just remember somethings aren't ment to be mm perfect! It will just do yr head in!

Mick

Thanks for the info Mick, these sorts of details are very handy to know for this. Although from my measurements so far everything is pretty square. I fully appreciate that it is impossible to be accurate. The purpose of the modelling is just to allow visualisation of what I want. Also, for example when I start designing the frame I have an idea of the shape, the sizing and approximate amount of material needed to get the job done. The details would come out as it was built.

I'll have to start trying some ways to do the gutter. Maybe next weekend I'll make a start on that. Will see.

[disco_ute]

I'll have to start trying some ways to do the gutter. Maybe next weekend I'll make a start on that. Will see.

The disco roof is PITA cause it all steel and doesn't pull apart very easy. Mine was based on a range rover so i had the use the alloy roof and could screw it on and off :) and LRA sell fiberglass caps for them only problem is if you are tall yr hair rubs on the hood lining. pm me yr email address if you like I have loads of pics of my build that i never posted anywhere.

Mick

[Disco_ute84]

If you are stuck for ideas for the gutter corners have a look at what ive done, i think i have pictures up.... if not i will put some up soon.

Cheers,

tim

[rovercare]

I'm an engineer... thinking to much is what I do! :p



:D:D:D

[stirlsilver]

I was looking at that quote on me rovercare. And I though "Dammit I spelt "too" wrong" then next time I came online I realised that wasn't actually my quote ya mongrel :p

Tonight I started playing with a way to make up the gutters and it seems like it might work. As I had made up the channels in SolidWorks I simply exported part of the model and produced some drawings from it. Then printed them out 1:1 scale so I could use them as templates.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/578.jpg

By using a 1.5" flat bar, I can fit both turns onto a single piece.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/579.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/580.jpg

And then by using some thinner 20mm flat bar I spot welded the two together and used a hammer to make the material follow the profile spot welding along the joint.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/581.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/582.jpg

Overall I think this might be a good way to making up the gutter. It ends up pretty close to the original profile and it allows me to get that little lip on the underside which the plastic trimming can hook on to.

What I'm thinking of doing is making up 5 flat sections, the two sections which have the radiused bends and the other 3 pieces being the straight parts (2 on the side and the long one across the back). Then welding the pieces together and then bending and spot welding the lip along the outside edge.

I'll have to get some more material and do a proper attempt to make the final items then weld them together to make a single piece.

[Disco_owner]

Hey mate , keep up the good work , like how you have put a lot of thought into this Build :D , Will be watching with interest, also you seem to be very proficient with Solidworks.:twisted:

[wovenrovings]

If you are going to be in Thailand you could look up the fella's that rebuild the Combi's. I'm sure they could knock up a back for the cab any shape you want. There was a thread with a link on here somewhere.

[stirlsilver]

pm me yr email address if you like I have loads of pics of my build that i never posted anywhere.

PM sent, thanks Mick.


Hey mate , keep up the good work , like how you have put a lot of thought into this Build :D , Will be watching with interest, also you seem to be very proficient with Solidworks.:twisted:

Thanks for the comment :)


If you are going to be in Thailand you could look up the fella's that rebuild the Combi's. I'm sure they could knock up a back for the cab any shape you want. There was a thread with a link on here somewhere.

I saw that guys thread on some forum, the way that he could manipulate panel steel was amazing! I practically read the whole thread when I found it.

[stirlsilver]

Right so it was a big day yesterday.

I started off by making the radiused corner section with the little straight sections as all one piece. Simply a case of butt welding some 35mm x 3mm flat bar together at the right angles and then grinding them down to the finished profile. The printed template came in very handy here!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/406.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/406.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/407.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/408.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/409.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/410.jpg


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/411.jpg

I realised that because I was making the gutter lip out of 3mm bar stock, the bottom of the gutter needed to be 16mm across only which works out quite nicely because all I needed then was two long pieces of 16mm x 3mm flat bar.

Anyway, with the radiused corners done it was time to hack at the car some more so I could get the right measurements off the car on how far apart the corners were. The first stage was removing the roof support, a simple case of drilling out the spot welds.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/412.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/413.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/414.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/415.jpg

Then I hacked off the majority of the roof off.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/416.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/417.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/418.jpg

I needed to separate the roof where it is spot welded onto the gutter which was a simple case of drilling out the welds (without going all the way through) and peeling off the steel.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/419.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/420.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/421.jpg

Then by trimming back the roof beams to the right length I got the dimensions between the beams and started cutting and welded in the 16x3mm flat bar between the radiused corners.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/422.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/423.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/424.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/425.jpg

With the length double checked I then got onto the fun part... Spot welding and bending the 16x3mm flat bar on the outside to form the gutter lip. A lot of measurement were involved to maks sure the damn thing stayed perpendicular and at 9mm from the top! Anyway I eventually got there.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/426.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/427.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/428.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/429.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/430.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/431.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/432.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/433.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/434.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/435.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/436.jpg

I was very happy with the end result.

Anyway trial fitment... and it fit perfectly :D

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/437.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/438.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/439.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/440.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/441.jpg

And that was it... it took me about ohh... 13 hours to do that... I didn't leave the workshop until 2am...

BUT at least now I am one step closer to being able to form up the roof :D

[stirlsilver]

Next step in the build will be fitting the rear beam onto the gutter and joining it to the existing beams on the car. Looks like approximately 1.5m of 35x35x2mm RHS is the go.

It will need some trimming and reshaping to get it to sit within the roof line but that shouldn't be too difficult... just more time spent with Mr. grinder and Mr. Mig.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/399.jpg

[SPROVER]

Looks like it is coming along nicely there Stirling.
Its coming along quick too.:D Good stuff!

[disco_ute]

Good work mate!!

[V8Landy]

well done Stirlo.:cool::cool::cool:

[stirlsilver]

Looks like it is coming along nicely there Stirling.
Its coming along quick too.:D Good stuff!


Good work mate!!


well done Stirlo.:cool::cool::cool:

Cheers for the comments guys :)

[stirlsilver]

Well some more tinkering in the workshop this weekend.

Basically making up the rear beam and attaching it to the gutter I made up last week:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/105.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/106.jpg

Because there will be a gap between the beam and the gutter (there wasn't any RHS in the exact dimensions I needed) I would need to make up some spacers to join the two together:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/107.jpg

I started off by buying some 35x35SHS and cutting it up to weld in some flat bar to create the sloped section.

Cutting it down to the right length.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/108.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/109.jpg

Cutting it down, getting a nice straight edge when using an angle gridner was difficult but I got there in the end with a bit of patience.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/110.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/111.jpg

Some 25mm flat bar was just the right size to fit in the gap... the stuff I had on hand was a bit thicker than the square section steel (5mm vs 2mm) so it wasn't ideal but would have to do.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/112.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/113.jpg

After everything was spot welded in place I set to doing full seam welds, I thought by alternating my welds and only doing every second run I would be able to avoid any warping... but I was wrong, half way through the welding I took a look at the job and found it had turned into a banana... So I had to get creative with a jack under the chassis rails and some heat...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/114.jpg

At the end of the day what did it was good old fashioned dropping the front wheel of the car onto the beam with it under some blocks. After all that was sorted I moved onto tidying up the welds. And trimming the corners down to the profile needed to make sure it clears the cutter corners and also the curved roof.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/115.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/116.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/117.jpg

Some checks to make sure that everything should fit together (it according to the model it should). I just used the gutter section and some offcuts of the existing beams on the car. It was all looking good.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/118.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/119.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/120.jpg

You can see the gap here between the components which I would have to deal with later.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/121.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/122.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/123.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/124.jpg

After that all checked out I did a trial fitment of everything on the car to see how it all fits up there.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/125.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/126.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/127.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/128.jpg

As you can see here I hadn't quite straightened up the beam enough, and the gutter had developed a natural curve from the welding and the way I had bent the flat bar to form the lip of the gutter.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/129.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/130.jpg

In the end after chatting about it with Wayne, it was determined that having a slight curve at the back of the roof line will make it look less like a "chop job" so I kept the curve and bent the beam slightly to try and follow this profile as much as possible.

Next day I got onto making the beam spacers to join the two assemblies together. Not very exciting, but it was fiddly because I needed to make each spacer just the right thickness so it only went upto the edge of the gutter. Later the skin will sit on these spacers.

I fitted 3 spacers while everything was sitting on the car.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/131.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/132.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/133.jpg

And then followed up to do the remaining 7 off the car.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/134.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/135.jpg

I was being very careful this time to make sure I wasn't rushing the welds and have the thing bend on me again. Quite tricky when you are actually running out of time because I had to get out of the workshop real soon. Anyway a trial fit up on the car after I was done and it all still fit :D

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/136.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/137.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/138.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/139.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/140.jpg

It needs some tidying up but it's pretty well done.

[stirlsilver]

Ok, this week I haven't physically done too much work on the project, but I have spent a few hours taking some more measurements to properly locate the rear outriggers in the model along with measurements to detail the sloped section of the floor which I intend to use as part of my rear wall.

Also, I have spent time desigining the attachment system onto the rear outriggers and the majority of the rear frame.

Here are some diagrams of how I'm thinking of building up the rear frame to join the sills, rear outriggers and the roof structurally. All vertical sections are to be made out of RHS 60x40 and horizontals to be out of RHS 40x40. I haven't decided on the thickness yet, 2mm would probably do the job just fine. I haven't gotten to designing the way to join the intrusion bars and main structure of the doors just yet... that will come later.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/07/1354.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/07/1355.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/07/1356.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/07/1357.jpg

Here there is some more detail on how I intend to attach to the outriggers through the skin. Basically a couple of flanges that are sandwitched on either side of the skin. It looks like i'm going to have to trim the original body mount rubbers to be able to use them how I have shown it.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/07/1358.jpg

And here, while it doesn't look like much is the positioning of that sloped panel that currently exists on the car (in yellow), I'll use this panel and join it up to the rest of the rear wall skin (when I get to that stage) which is why I need to know where it is on the car!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/07/1359.jpg

[McDisco]

Stirl

Im still so impressed. I dont think anyone has had a thread with this amount of technical information and awesome schematics. I think we will all learn something from this one.

Thanks

Angus

[stirlsilver]

Stirl

Im still so impressed. I dont think anyone has had a thread with this amount of technical information and awesome schematics. I think we will all learn something from this one.

Thanks

Angus

Thanks for the comment Angus, I appreciate it. I would of had more money to burn this month if I hadn't gone and blown $800 on wheels and tyres for the BMW. And I leave for Argentina this saturday for two and a half weeks so it's going to get quiet around here for a while :)

I'll get back into working on the project when I get back though :)

[McDisco]

Stirl

As a side, what do you do for a crust? Your an engineer right...what takes you all over the world though? Must be a specialised area...

Angus

[stirlsilver]

Stirl

As a side, what do you do for a crust? Your an engineer right...what takes you all over the world though? Must be a specialised area...

Angus


I'm an engineer/project manager... which i'm told is pretty crazy when you are 23 and the projects are USD 1m+ :eek:. I work in the gas turbine power station industry (the company mostly designs & manufactures big insulated exhaust ducts), because the company is pretty small and our clients are usually overseas the opportunity to travel is pretty frequent.

Having said that though, the coming Argentina trip is a family holiday with my parents, not for work :D

[McDisco]

Nice! Well enjoy the trip mate!

[blitz]

Well it's time for my comments, you have done this in enough detail for me to consider doing the same myself, the main reason why I haven't as yet is because it was all a bit to daunting to tell the truth. In fact I thought it would be easier to fit a series III or county tub onto the disco but I really like what you are doing and I figure that if I stuff it up I can always go back to my original plan.

I am going to have to read this very closely as I have only skimmed it really but I very much like what I am seeing

Cheers Blythe

[McDisco]

Hey Stirl!! Whats happening here mate?!! Made any progress...Im keen to see how its going.

Angus

[stirlsilver]

Hey Angus,
Unfortunately there hasn't been any progress since my last update...

The engine in Waynes Rangie blew up while I was in Argentina and he is currently in the process of building up and installing a replacement. Due to space limitations I couldn't do anything to the disco while this was happening. The engine build should be finished in the next week or so.

I also decided that I should get my other Land Rover back on the road so that it doesn't just rot away where it is stored, so when Wayne finishes up with his engine build I'll pull my Stage 1 out. I'll take out the engine and gearbox, deglaze the bores, install new rings and put the engine back together and I'll also take on the job of swapping the gearbox internals from the broken case into a new replacement. With the stage 1 back on the road at least I'll be able to go 4wding again.

Once the Stage 1 is back on the road I'll move back onto the disco. I'm still putting money aside for the project and should be buying some 35"x10.5" Silverstone Extremes soon for it.

[McDisco]

Hey Stirl

Good to here your still on it. I have bought myself a rangie to play with so Im up for some more tough trips now...

Angus

[djam1]

Stirling locktite the low range gear and centre diff bolts in on that LT95 it shouldnt happen again

[Fusion]

Stirlo , Mate that is an awesome project you have going here . It's coming up a treat . you'll have to get it covered in Otways mud when it's done :D;):p .

[deslandes]

Excellen, on which website do you find this 3D CAD? Does it exist for a 90?
Thx

[disco2hse]

Excellen, on which website do you find this 3D CAD? Does it exist for a 90?
Thx

Stirling made it. He is an engineer so this is what he does instead of watching TV. :p

Alan

[CraigE]

Good stuff. I am considering something similar. I have picked up a D2 V8 wreck. Will be watching with interest.
Would it be feasable to use the rear section door and d pillars as the rear section. Obvously solid welding so there were no gaps. Only issue I can see is the tapered window.

[stirlsilver]

Well, in case you were all wondering... yes I am still alive... been kept very busy trying to get the Stage 1 back together (a long way off yet).

Anyway, this is just a quick update. Tyres have arrived :twisted: Silverstone Extremes, 35" x 11.5" x 15"... Big tyres!!

Picked up the set of 5 brand new for $1,405.

We now have an assortment of silverstone extreme tyres in the workshop! Wayne's 33s and my 35s.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/03/855.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/03/856.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/03/857.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/03/858.jpg

Time for me to go quiet again. I may have a 3.9L engine and gearbox soon, will need to see. Aside from that I won't be doing anything until my stage 1 is back on the road. I'm now going to go and update that thread!

[ADMIRAL]

Makes the mouth water just looking at the rubber !!

[disco2hse]

Great price Stirl! Well done :)

Alan

[SPROVER]

Very nice Stirling.Cant wait to see this beast all finished.

[stirlsilver]

Ok, just another quick update:

I've bought a wrecked 1996 discovery. It has the important bits I need for the project, a 3.9L engine with serpentine front end and 10 bolt heads and a ZF auto transmission.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/05/43.jpg

So that's the engine and transmission all sorted out!!

Everything except the radiator and the front end of the car is fine, I'll be selling all the bits I don't need so if anyone is chasing any parts, let me know.

The Stage 1 is getting close to finishing (sorta). So hopefully I can get back into this project full swing and get it done!

[MacMan]

Clear your PM inbox... and send me a message. Interested in some bits. Cheers, Mike

[disco2hse]

Woohoo Stirling. You got a linkback from mudclub.com :D

Discovery tray back project with 3d models (http://www.mud-club.com/forum/index.php'topic=73693.0)

Alan

[stirlsilver]

Woohoo Stirling. You got a linkback from mudclub.com :D

Discovery tray back project with 3d models (http://www.mud-club.com/forum/index.php'topic=73693.0)

Alan

Hey Alan,
Yeah I got the update stating that. I really need to get back on to this project! The stage 1 is almost finished. I actually took it for a test drive today!

Anyway, I am REALLY looking forward to continuing with this project when the stage 1 is out of the way!

Stirling.

[disco2hse]

:cool:

[stirlsilver]

Alright, the Stage 1 has sold. So it's time to revive this project :cool:

I spent some time today in the workshop doing a general tidy up in preparation to get back to work on the car. The next step is to start building up the structure for the rear wall and tying it in to the B pillars & chassis.

I'm so happy I can finally get back to this project!!!

[stirlsilver]

Well, i've continued from where I left off. Way back in mid 2009 I had basically completed the rear wall design. So i've gone and pulled the dimensions of the assembly and parts in order to fabricate the frame from the 40x40 and 40x60 sections.

The assembly dimensions:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/916.jpg

And the part dimensions:
Horizontal beams
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/917.jpg

Lower & mid lower Pillars
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/918.jpg

mid upper pillars (Going to be fun cutting these)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/919.jpg

upper pillars (again nasty dimensions for cutting)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/920.jpg

All going well, i'll buy the material on saturday and get some work done over the weekend.

[stirlsilver]

Well, upon calling the metal supplier, I discovered that 60x40RHS doesn't actually exist. So I had to re-do the drawings (the ones above have been updated) to use the nearest section (65x35RHS).

[klappers]

Once again, amazing

[stirlsilver]

Once again, amazing

Thanks Klappers, while the dimensions I get from the model are not 100% accurate it definitely does help to have some ballpark figures to work with when making the angle cuts!

Well, I physically started working on the car again this weekend. Work done is as follows:
First thing I did was set up a horizontal reference line across the base of the B pillars which I could use to take measurements from when building up the rear frame
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/433.jpg

Before cutting the Lower pillar, I took some preliminary dimensions off the car and compared them to the drawings. I discovered that in some places there were discrepancies of up to 30mm. Which, in hind sight is to be expected. There is no way the model I build can be 100% accurate with the build. So knowing this I did the bottom cuts of the lower pillars.

I discovered that when I cut the back off the car, that I cut the lower sills too far forward, which left me nothing to weld the bottom of the lower pillars to! So I had to use some angle tack welded on to give me a location to sit the lower pillars.

Anyway, I tackwelded the lower pillars on with the the top section uncut, and then ran a string and the elevation where the angle in the back wall was located.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/434.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/435.jpg

By using the string I realised that the length of the lower pillars needed to be a little longer than those which I drew. So I simply added this on and cut the angle I had marked on the drawings.

I then did the cut for the Mid Lower pillars as per the dimensions shown on the drawing, and tack welded them on to the top of the lower pillars.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/436.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/437.jpg

I then took the measurement between the pillars, discovered that it is actually 10mm shorter than that which I drew, so I cut the 40x40 hollow section to suit and tack welded the lower horizontal brance in place jus above where the angle in the wall is.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/438.jpg

Next, I cut out the Mid Upper Pillars, again I did the bottom angle cuts as per drawing and then determined the required length for the top cut on the car. This was easy to determine because these sections stopped level with the top of the rear doors, so all I needed was to run some string from one side to the other to find the right height to do the cut. Again once I knew where one elevation was, I used the dimensions on the drawings to the angled cut and tack welded on the result.

Of course, once that was finished I cut and fit the Mid Horizontal Brace according to the actual dimensions between the pillars, again ended up being a little shorter than drawn.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/439.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/440.jpg

before cutting and welding in the upper pillars, I figured I should do the finishing work to the brace which I had built a few years ago with the gutter. The main work was to close off the ends to make the inside sealed to prevent corrosion. Also I did a little bit of tidying up while at it.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/441.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/442.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/443.jpg

And finally I did the upper pillars, using the same method, this one was a little fiddley because I had to get the angled pillars to fit inbetween two existing pieces. But I got there in the end and tack welded them in place.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/444.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/445.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/446.jpg

I wanted to do the Upper horizontal brace, but I simply ran out of time. I may get a chance to do it tomorrow if I can get to the workshop. If not, it will need to be next week.

In anycase, over the course of the week I'll start working on the design of tying in the rear frame in to the B pillars.

That's it for now! Feels good to be back on this project!!!!

[stirlsilver]

Right,
I updated the model to more closely represent the car in the as built condition. I figured I better spend the time now to ensure it is reasonably accurate for the later stages of the build.

I also worked on the concept on the side braces which tie in the rear frame in with the B pillars. Basically the concept is to make up an angle out of 6mm plate and drill holes to match the bolt pattern of the original hinges for the rear door and just have 40x40 RHS running out to the joints on the rear frame.

Below are a couple of screen grabs (I'm highlighting all items yet to be constructed in green):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/371.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/372.jpg

Later in the week I will demonstrate my concept on how I would hold what is left of the rear doors in position.

Next time i'm in the workshop, I will try to get some better dimensions of the B pillars in the areas where the hinges are located. So then I can refine the concept to something I can create some drawings from and build the parts.

When i was in the workshop, I did take some photos in these areas... but they were only really good enough to make up the concept and nothing more:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/373.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/374.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/375.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/376.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/377.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/378.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/379.jpg

[stirlsilver]

Here is my concept on how to hold the doors in position:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/302.jpg

Basically the plan is to drill and tap a couple of holes in the angles so that a M6 bolt and drilled 6mm plate can be bolted up and held in position, then holes on the front frame of the rear doors would be cut to match the profile of the 6mm plate held in by the M6 bolt. The door would be offered up and the plates welded to the holes made in the doors.

Once complete I will then be able to unbolt the M6 bolts to remove the doors. To maintain alignment during the whole fabrication progress I would only remove one hinge first so that the remaining hinge can still be relied on to hold the door where it should be during fabrication.

Like I said it is just a concept at this stage, I may discover an issue when I do it, but at the moment i'm happy with the idea.

[McDisco]

Nice one Stirling! Glad to see you back into the project. Its looking great...look forward to watching it progress.


Angus

[stirlsilver]

Nice one Stirling! Glad to see you back into the project. Its looking great...look forward to watching it progress.


Angus

Hey Angus! Thanks! Good to hear from you mate, it's been ages! I'm going to have to keep pushing and pushing to get this job done... there is certainly a lot of work to do.

Right as for an update.

I went in to the workshop to cut and tack weld in the upper horizontal brace for the wall.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/161.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/162.jpg

So the rear part of the frame is done (in terms of cutting and tack welding anyway). Now I need to get the design of the side braces finalised, but before I can do that I need to get a little more info for my model. So the rest of the time was spent taking photos of the side braces to be able to mosaic them in to a side and rear view.

Side view:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/163.jpg

Rear View:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/03/164.jpg

You may be wondering why I did this in multiple photos. The reason for that is that the lens of the camera bends and image towards the edges, so to reduce this effect you need to use smaller pieces when you want to use a photo as a geometry reference.

While I was at it, I also took a bunch of top and side photos of the exposed portion of the chassis so that it can be modelled as well... Although I haven't had time to go and align all the photos and join them together (it takes ages)

Hopefully over the course of next week I will produce the model of the B pillar and then finalize the design of the side braces to fabricate them up next weekend.

That's it for now.

[eddie_tdi]

looking awesome....


i need to ask though.... seeing the amount of detail you're going into for this project.... do you think you'll get bored once this is finished? lol

[stirlsilver]

looking awesome....


i need to ask though.... seeing the amount of detail you're going into for this project.... do you think you'll get bored once this is finished? lol

Thanks eddie. As to if i'm going to get bored... I'm sure I will always be able to find something to keep me busy. If not, I can always fall back on training for martial arts... or something.

Ok, another update:
By using the left and rear set of photos of the B pillars, I was able to construct a much better model of the B pillars, the process is shown below.

Load the photos at 90degrees to each other and align them.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1325.jpg

Using the photos I was able to get the cross sections along the length of the B pillar.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1326.jpg

The cross sections were then swept to produce the formed pillar.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1327.jpg

The complete item.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1328.jpg

I then removed the original profile of the B pillars that the car originally had and added in the more detailed ones I constructed. Then set to actually resizing everything. In particular the positioning of the side braces.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1329.jpg

Then produced the drawings to construct the side braces.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1330.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1331.jpg

So it's time to buy some 6mm plate and get to work this weekend!

Now I guess I better go to bed...

[isuzutoo-eh]

To counteract the fisheye effect, You could place a ruler/measuring stick (or get some known measurements) at the top, bottom and middle of what you are photographing, then in an image program skew/distort the image until all three rulers are the same scale. YMMV of course.

[stirlsilver]

Thanks for the suggestiong isuzutoo, I was aware that you can compensate for the distortion using software. I actually have an SLR which does has software that automatically detects the lens that was used and then ajusts the distortion created by that particular lens. But in this instance I figured that using many photos was a better way to go as you see the whole profile square on, which I think makes it more accurate.

Well, to update on what I got up to in the workshop:
The place next door to where I work kindly gave me some 4mm sheet steel which was thinner than i had originally intended, but I figured it would work still (in hind sight 6mm plate would have been overkill and wouldn't have fit!).

I cut all the plates out, stacked them and ran a strip of weld along the edges to hold them together:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1228.jpg

For the side where the 40x40 RHS was welded to, I drilled and tapped the M6 holes for the bolts that will hold the rear doors in position:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1229.jpg

Then a similar process for the side where the hinges used to bolt to. Drilled them all the 9mm holes through all 4 at once:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1230.jpg

When I offered the cut and drilled plates to the B pillar, I realised I was a bit too skimpy with the lengths, so I had a a gap!:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1231.jpg

I carefully tacked the plates to each other across the gap:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1232.jpg

It was at this point that I realised I had actually brought a proper camera and didn't need to use my mobile phone:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1233.jpg

All four mounting plates tacked together:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1234.jpg

I then set to welding up the corners, I tacked the plates to some scrap steel to prevent them moving from thermal expansion while I welded:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1235.jpg

All four done and tidied up:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1236.jpg

They fitted perfectly:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1237.jpg

I cut out the upper left side brace and tacked it in (the drawings were very handy for this):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1238.jpg

I cut bar into short lengths and then drilled out the centers for the bolt:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1239.jpg

It was at this point that I realised that I should have mounted the rear door before tackinig in the side brace. So I had to do it all with one side brace already fitted (in hind sight I should have just cut off the tack welds!).

It was pretty hard going trying to get everything to line up, but I eventually got all four mounting collars tack welded onto the doors (many lessons were learned here!!). I will take these doors off again later to tidy up the welding of the collars, they are good enough for now to hold everything in position:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1240.jpg

Then fitted the lower left side brace:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1241.jpg

And bolted up the left door:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1242.jpg

It was at this point where it was about midnight, the grinder was starting to play up and we had run out of Argon gas. So I figured it was time to go home. I'll do the right side another day.

[stirlsilver]

Right, well i've done some more homework. This time dealing with getting a model of the exposed part of the chassis going. Basically it was the same procedure like I did with the B pillar in that I took a series of photos of the chassis from two angles (top and side), and then joined them all together.

It was pretty fiddley aligning all the photos, but I got there in the end (the top view of the chassis ended up being a photo 8000x10000 pixels! The computer didn't like that too much. Anyway, the stitched views:

Top:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1098.jpg

Side:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1099.jpg

Like I did before, I loaded the images in to solidworks, scaled them and aligned them:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1100.jpg

Then went about using the images to form the shapes. Here is the left side rail:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1101.jpg

I then carried on and tried my best to locate the various other items which was quite tricky:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1102.jpg

And the final item (after hours of work...):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1103.jpg

Just to give an idea, here is the completed chassis positioned (roughly) on the complete model:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1104.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1105.jpg

Now I can start looking at the design of the tray, chassis modifications, cylinder mounting and the like!

[stirlsilver]

More progress:
The right hand door was mounted in a similar fashion as the last one. Although this time I got a friend to come in and help me out (thanks Donovan!) It made things much quicker. And as usual, the second time was waaaay neater than the first.

Here are the collars tack welded in to the door (I probably should stop calling them doors since they don't have hinges anymore):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/946.jpg

The proof that I had some assistance, free labour is the best kind of labour:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/947.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/948.jpg

I went about making the little pieces which are to be welded on the ends of the sills and to the bottom of the rear wall frame. The left hand side was a simple case of making an angle cut in the RHS. But the right... well, I cut the sill too far forward, so I had to build this material back up. As you will see by the little boxy thing:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/949.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/950.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/951.jpg

Then I decided that while I was at it, I might as well at looking how I would tie the rear frame to the outrigger. I had come up with a concept earlier on, but I didn't go with that. I just went with something simple, as the photos will show.

Here is the left side:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/952.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/953.jpg

I think the car is ready for its first engineers inspection!

[disco2hse]

Good luck. Not that you'll need it. In fact, just point that at this thread!

[Tonestar]

Thats a "HUGH" undertaking you've started............looks good and should
look good finished. But I would've chopped the back of the body off at the
wheelarch and married that to the door pillars........so it looks factory, and
welded up the tailgate. :twisted::D

Tonestar.

[dattopimp]

Looks good man. Just one thing about the rear body mounts onto the chassis...I don't know. A few gussets perhaps? Just looks like alot of stress would be placed on that flat piece.

[stirlsilver]

Looks good man. Just one thing about the rear body mounts onto the chassis...I don't know. A few gussets perhaps? Just looks like alot of stress would be placed on that flat piece.

It does have a gusset, and it is all constructed from 4mm plate. you can't really get much more gusseting in there because of the rubber mount, the only way around it is if some flat bar were bent around the perimeter and welded in place, but I think that is excessive considering so much of the body has been cut away.

[stirlsilver]

Another saturday in the workshop, although this time I wasn't able to spend as much time as I would have liked. Anyway, after some more convincing I finally agreed that the body mount was insufficient, so I reworked the left hand side mount (took bloody ages!)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/606.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/607.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/608.jpg

I made a start on the right hand mount but ran out of time before I could finish it. This is as far as I got:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/609.jpg

After I finished my assignment tonight I got back on to doing some concept work in Solidworks. First I went about figuring out where I would be trimming the chassis to, and I am pretty sure I want to trim it down to the bottom of the curve and brace the rails together by using the original beam from the very end of the chassis (cut of portion). This would end up with removing approximately 350mm from the end of the chassis.

Before:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/610.jpg

After:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/611.jpg

After doing that, I started to play around with some LPG cylinder configurations. Since this will be an LPG only car I want to try and squeeze in about 200L of LPG on the car, which should hopefully give me around 1,000km of range. Looking at the APA cylinder dimensions (http://www.eco-gas.com.au/wp-content/uploads/support-pdfs/charts/1_APA%20CYLINDER%20DIMENSIONS.pdf) I think the A120 cylinder is best as two of these cylinders side by side are less than the outside width of the chassis rails, although they are quite long (1.2m!). If I were to use these cylinders, I would end up with something like below:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/612.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/613.jpg

I'm pretty sure what I have shown here won't be an acceptable configuration since the cylinders protrude beyond the chassis making them the first point of impact on a rear end collision. Is anyone able to confirm this? If it is a no-no, I wonder how I might be able to get around that and still fit 200L of LPG in there.

I then went and sketched a few things in:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/614.jpg

I'm toying with the idea of making up a box which the LPG cylinders would sit inside of, just so that there are less areas which mud can get to, and I would have a large access hatch through the top of the tray. Also, with the shown configuration I may be able to squeeze in my Ramsay winch under the LPG tanks, but I'm not really sure there.

In this configuration the tray would be sitting somewhere around 1.4m from the ground, which is quite high, but there really isn't much that can be done about that when you have LPG tanks between it and the chassis...

As for the engineer... STILL haven't been able to get hold of one!!!

[stirlsilver]

$131 later and I purchased AS 1425-2007 to answer my question on the cylinder location requirements. They were best summarised by the diagrams below.

For a vehicle of less than 4.5 t mass or having a chassis ground clearance of not more than 600 mm at the rear (see Note 1), no part of a fuel container, compartment or subcompartment that is beneath or towards the ends of the vehicle shall lie outside a zone whose boundaries are those shown in Figure 3.3:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/568.jpg

For a vehicle of 4.5 t or more mass, or having a chassis ground clearance exceeding 600 mm at the rear (See Note 1), the zone boundaries shall be those shown in Figure 3.4:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/569.jpg

In terms of protection in the event of an accident, all I can find in the standard is as follows:

A fuel container together with its associated attachments, shall be located and protected so
that the possibility of damage from impact, accident, or loose objects is minimized. The
following specific requirements apply:
(a) Each container shall be located in a position, or provided with protection, such that
damage in the course of normal vehicle usage is minimized. In particular—

(i) locations vulnerable to impact by objects thrown by tyres shall be avoided; and
(ii) damage due to impact by objects being handled by or carried by the vehicle
shall be prevented.

No mention of impact protection or anything. So since I think this vehicle applys to figure 3.4, it appears that I need to modify my concept to ensure the LPG cylinders are forward of the rear-most chassis cross rail.

[stirlsilver]

Ok some more work done on the Solidworks model.

Since the AS1425 standard requires tanks to be forward of the rear cross brace, I decided against re-using the existing rear cross brace. So instead I plan to cut the chassis in the same place and then build a cross brace from 5mm plate, as you see below. This cross brace will also serve as a winch mount.

Also, it seems I am not going to quite get to my 200L of LPG target, they are just too long, so I've decided I will use 2 manchester tanks each 375mm dia x 1080mm long, they each hold 88L of LPG each, which should really be plenty.

I also started working on the system which the tanks would be mounted on (along with the tray). The plan is to use 40x40 SHS 4mm thick. The challenge is to make the frame stiff enough to hold the weight of the tanks full and the tray (plus anything on it). What I have shown below is still a work in progress, I need to add some more cross bracing across the top (which will need to be bolted so tanks can go in and out if necessary). So it's going to be quite fiddley!

Also at the front, I can't get any gussetting in like I have shown in the rear.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/461.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/462.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/463.jpg

Over this weekend I'll be going in to the workshop to weld up the wall frame (it's only tack welded at the moment).

[stirlsilver]

A little bit more time spent, I did some quick calculations of the cross braces which the cylinders would mount to. Turns out the 40x40 4mm SHS is more than enough to handle the weight of the cylinders, so i've removed the gussets I had placed on the rear to make my life simpler.:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/460.jpg

[stirlsilver]

Well, I put the long weekend to good use. I was in the workshop every day Friday to Monday. Tomorrow I'll be taking a break!

I continued to weld up the rear frame during this time.

I cold galvanized and welded in the top beam and gutter assembly I had made last year:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/293.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/294.jpg

Welded in the pieces which go in on the end of the lower sills (These were a pain in the arse to weld in):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/295.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/296.jpg

And simply carried on until the whole frame was completely welded in:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/297.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/298.jpg

I then prepared the left door to have it fitted, I had to weld in the collars properly and also weld up all the holes that would let water in:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/299.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/300.jpg

And that was all I got done!! It really doesn't seem like much, but doing all the chamfering of the steel, cleaning and welding takes ages. I should get quicker as I go along.

I also did some more Solidworks work. That little bolted in cross brace was removed and the whole assembly has been shifted up so the front cross brace is now above the chassis (It would have fouled with the A bracket on the rear diff).

The tray is now going to have two levels, so that way I can fit in the tanks at what ever level they end up at and keep the tray at a reasonable level for use. The spare tyre will be mounted on top of the LPG tank frame.

In going through all of this, i've decided that designing tray frames is really tricky! There is still loads more to do, and when it comes to actually building what I am designing, it's going to take AGES. If anyone thinks of a better way of doing something, please let me know.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/301.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/302.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/303.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/304.jpg

[stirlsilver]

I figured I was starting to go overboard with the amount of steel reinforcement on the tray, particularly since I will probably use aluminium which is 5mm or so thick, which is more than thick enough to be structural itself. So based on this I did some more work on the design of the tray as follows.

The final structural layout of the frame (at this stage anyway):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/79.jpg

Starting to do some work on the alloy parts:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/80.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/81.jpg

For the compartments, I think I will get the panels made with the doors fitted with seals, I think that the positioning of hinges, seal positioning door placement ect. Will be far too fiddley for me to do. So I think I will find a place to make me the faces with the doors fitted so all I have to do is weld them to the compartments.

I also did some thinking about the other compartments, and perhaps a soft canopy:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/325.jpg

The spare tyre position... it's a bit bigger than I expected once I put it in position... I won't have much of a rear window with it sitting there (I guess I should blame the LPG tanks for that):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/82.jpg

[slug_burner]

Stand the tyre up behind the driver (length alond side the gas tank cover), you could even build a depression into the tray to make it sit lower (probably restricted by the spring holder).

[stirlsilver]

Thanks slug burner, that is something I hadn't thought about. I'll look into it, but I may not be able to get the tyre down much. Will check.

I went back in to the workshop today and finished off sealing the holes in the rear right door. There was a fair bit of corrosion inside which needed some addressing. I wasn't able to get all of it though, so I'm going to have to keep an eye on that.

I then discovered that I had completely screwed up the alignment of the rear right door mounting (the gap between it and the front door was nowhere near even), so I had to address that as well.

I also added in some extra braces which will hold the end of the panels against the wall frame and give them extra stiffness. Some of the bits I cut out from the inside of the rear doors was perfect for this purpose:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/2.jpg

I also started cutting off all the un-necessary mounts and brackets on the exposed portion of the chassis, in preparation to cut it to the required length and build up the tray frame.

I'm also going to have to start researching how to fibreglass the roof to the profile I want!

[stirlsilver]

I haven't been able to get much work done on this project lately, this is due to the fact that I'm currently supervising a construction project and it is 6 to 7 days a week!

Anyway, two 110L water capacity LPG tanks have been purchased and freshly tested along with single piece brackets:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/572.jpg

The tanks are the same dimensions as those I showed in the model. So they are perfect. That makes about 180L of LPG :cool:

[101 Ron]

Love the project.
Just trying to be helpful.
The emergency blokes and I think the LPG rules state the access to the tanks sub compartment must not be restricted by the load or body work.
The idea is that the gas tanks can be manually turned off in the tanks sub comparment in the event of a accident.( quickly.)
I know you all ready have tanks lined up at a good price.
How would you go with a very large single tank running the width of the vehicle just behind the cabin and the tray behind the tank.
There is no law that states you cannot place one tank above the other cross the vehicle behind the cabin, so long as the frame holding it all meets specs and you obiviously have the know how to work that out.
That frame could be made as one as part of the rear cabin structure.
Ron

[stirlsilver]

Thanks for your advice Ron!



The emergency blokes and I think the LPG rules state the access to the tanks sub compartment must not be restricted by the load or body work.
The idea is that the gas tanks can be manually turned off in the tanks sub comparment in the event of a accident.( quickly.)

This is a very good point which I hadn't thought about! I went back and had a read of AS1425 and found the following:

It shall be possible to operate the service valve for the purpose of servicing, or a filler shutoff valve if fitted, in the installed position. The valve may be arranged so that it can be operated from some internal area of the vehicle.
If this is the case, the sealing of the compartment or sub-compartment shell shall be maintained by one of the following means:

(a) If a valve-actuating device passes through the shell, a gastight seal shall be provided.

(b) If the actuating handle is wholly within the shell, access shall be by a gastight captive hatch which can be opened without tools.

While it does not explicitly say you need quick access to the valves, it does say that a hatch must be able to be opened without tools. So what I will probably do is install the tanks with the valve compartments facing outwards so they can be accessed from the rear wheel wells.



How would you go with a very large single tank running the width of the vehicle just behind the cabin and the tray behind the tank.
There is no law that states you cannot place one tank above the other cross the vehicle behind the cabin, so long as the frame holding it all meets specs and you obiviously have the know how to work that out.
That frame could be made as one as part of the rear cabin structure.


This is another option I didn't consider and I should have when I was looking at possible arrangements. But I already have the tanks now so I am comitted to the arrangement of having the tanks longitudinally along the chassis.

Thanks for your input Ron, I appreciate it!
Stirling

[Homestar]

Been following this project with great interest. I was starting to think something had happened to you Stirling:p

Isn't it a pain when work gets in the way of something more interesting that you have waiting at home...

Can't wait to see the end result, great work! :thumbsup:

[stirlsilver]

Been following this project with great interest. I was starting to think something had happened to you Stirling:p

Isn't it a pain when work gets in the way of something more interesting that you have waiting at home...

Can't wait to see the end result, great work! :thumbsup:

Thanks Bacicat, yes terrible when work starts taking away my weekends... But it is only temporarily. I really want to get this car done, I don't want to let it drag on for too long because the longer I take the higher the chance that I could loose motivation!!

I managed to squeeze in a few hours in the workshop today actually.

I marked off the place where I was going to cut the chassis (sorry for the rubbish photos, I forgot my camera!):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/442.jpg

So I went about continuing to cut off un-necessary brackets from the chassis, which took a hell of a lot of time! Cutting the brackets was quick, but then going at the remaining welds with an angle grinder just went on and on. But, I persisted and got there in the end. I also chopped the chassis too (getting serious now)!

All the areas you see covered in cold gal is where something was cut off.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/443.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/444.jpg

I fitted the 11.5 x35" silverstones and started to take some dimensions of where the tyres go during flex (I took off the tyre from one side and jacked the other without the spring fitted), obviously I could never simulate the full amount of flex that would be achieved in the end with the future suspension modifications, but at least I have some ballpark figures now (the tyre moved upwards by 250mm in relation to the chassis).

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/445.jpg

And this is where it is at currently:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/446.jpg

Now that I have the LPG tank bracket dimensions, and an idea of how high the tyres go, I can start finalizing the dimensions of the tray.

[disco2hse]

This is a very good point which I hadn't thought about! I went back and had a read of AS1425 and found the following:

It shall be possible to operate the service valve for the purpose of servicing, or a filler shutoff valve if fitted, in the installed position. The valve may be arranged so that it can be operated from some internal area of the vehicle.
If this is the case, the sealing of the compartment or sub-compartment shell shall be maintained by one of the following means:

(a) If a valve-actuating device passes through the shell, a gastight seal shall be provided.

(b) If the actuating handle is wholly within the shell, access shall be by a gastight captive hatch which can be opened without tools.

Hi Stirl,

I am not certain if I am reading it wrong but the reference to "gas tight" valves and hatches suggests to me that you only need them if the containers are mounted inside the vehicle or in an enclosed space. Yours are outside and so you would only need valves (e.g. cut off valves) that are easily accessed. If you are going to enclose the cylinders in a box then it must be gas tight and with, for example, marine grade hatches for access.

Alan

[101 Ron]

Yes if the tanks are under tray you dont need the sub compartment cover fiited on the tank etc.
The fact is for NSW a yearly rego check for LPG is needed and part of that check is testing to see if the excess flow valve on the tank works and this requires reasonable access to the tanks main valve to manually turn it off and on by hand.
If the the tanks valve is covered by cargo, or a screw on cover or is too hard to get at, the rego checking person has every right not to do the rego check.
Been there done that.
Emergency personal need good access to the valve too.

[disco2hse]

Yes if the tanks are under tray you dont need the sub compartment cover fiited on the tank etc.
The fact is for NSW a yearly rego check for LPG is needed and part of that check is testing to see if the excess flow valve on the tank works and this requires reasonable access to the tanks main valve to manually turn it off and on by hand.
If the the tanks valve is covered by cargo, or a screw on cover or is too hard to get at, the rego checking person has every right not to do the rego check.
Been there done that.
Emergency personal need good access to the valve too.

So it should be well sign posted then? The diamond LPG label I assume.

[stirlsilver]

Either way, I'll try to get the valves on the tanks somewhere they can be reached. I'll probably remove the valve compartments from the tanks because I don't think they will fit between the cross braces in the tray frame... Which is a pitty because they will get covered in mud, unless I make some guards to cover them (and restricting access to the valves!)

I found that just in the articulation I achieved by simply jacking the axle up that I would have fouled on the tray I had designed... So I played around some more with a different tray concept. What are peoples thoughts?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/385.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/386.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/387.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/388.jpg

[slug_burner]

Is there any reason for reducing the tray size by lowering the corners behind the wheels? May as well keep full tray size and just build in storage boxes if you have space under the tray.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/352.jpg

Unless loss of visibility out into those corners is the issue.

[disco2hse]

Is there any reason for reducing the tray size by lowering the corners behind the wheels? May as well keep full tray size and just build in storage boxes if you have space under the tray.

My first thought too. Could make for some very useful storage areas for chains, strops, etc.

Alan

[stirlsilver]

Is there any reason for reducing the tray size by lowering the corners behind the wheels? May as well keep full tray size and just build in storage boxes if you have space under the tray.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/352.jpg

Unless loss of visibility out into those corners is the issue.

I was thinking a similar thing when I was doing the design last night actually, and was thinking about using those areas as compartments. The only reason I was showing that design is so that there were two levels to the tray (the level above the tanks is very high)

Thanks for the input though guys! Appreciated, I'll probably go with building up some compartments.

[slug_burner]

I was thinking a similar thing when I was doing the design last night actually, and was thinking about using those areas as compartments. The only reason I was showing that design is so that there were two levels to the tray (the level above the tanks is very high)

Thanks for the input though guys! Appreciated, I'll probably go with building up some compartments.

I am not up on chops and tray conversions but I think they use some round tube to get the outer frame and go for rounded corners and usually incorporate some sort of ROPS which doubles as the spare holder. The again my memory is a bit foggy and I should be getting to bed.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/290.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/291.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/292.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/293.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/294.jpg

http://www.xviii.com/images/110/tray.jpg

some of these are scaled models

I suspect that for a bloke who is doing a conversion I am telling you how to suck eggs.

[dattopimp]

Hey Stirls, progess looks good. In relation to the LPG compartment issue. Have a look at some cars getting around with lpg atm. The falcon wagon and sedan lpg valves can't be easily reached without a hoist due to being tucked up on top of the tank under the vehicle. I think your idea of having them accessible through the rear wheel arches sounds good though.

Also when setting your tray up with the rear wheel clearance, I'm not sure how much the rear axle walks back and forth on the landrovers but on bigger lifted patrol the rear axle will move back several inches as it comes up. It'll all depend on the arms, coils and what not... No doubt you've taken that into consideration though :)

Keep up the good work

[VladTepes]

Mate that is going to be one nice rig.
Wish I had half your design and build talent !

[stirlsilver]

Sorry about the silence there everyone... I got distracted... By:
1 - 12hrs of Motorbike lessons to get my L's
2 - a one week business trip to Sweden & Israel
3 - Motorbike & Gear Shopping
4 - Motorbike & Gear Purchasing :cool:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/74.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/75.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/76.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/77.jpg

I'll be getting back in to the ute this weekend (I hope!!!)

[walker]

Wow. Great job. That is going to look awesome when it is finished.

Did you think about running the gas tanks in the other direction?

I finished my Rangie ute last year and was able to fit 2 - 110litre tanks across the chassis. The Disco chassis should be the same width so it would work. If you are going to run straight gas then every little bit counts. If we go out doing hard core stuff thenI con only just make it through a long weekend on 180litre useable.

Here are a couple of pics. I have changed a few things since these pics were taken but you get the idea.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/20.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/21.jpg

[Homestar]

Hey Stirl, good to see you're back - starting to think you were on an extended hiatus. Great to see you've joind the 2 wheeled fraternity - and a good choice of bike too! If you want someone to go for a ride with, sing out, and I'll be there in a flash:).

Cheers - Gav

[dullbird]

Wow. Great job. That is going to look awesome when it is finished.

Did you think about running the gas tanks in the other direction?

I finished my Rangie ute last year and was able to fit 2 - 110litre tanks across the chassis. The Disco chassis should be the same width so it would work. If you are going to run straight gas then every little bit counts. If we go out doing hard core stuff thenI con only just make it through a long weekend on 180litre useable.

Here are a couple of pics. I have changed a few things since these pics were taken but you get the idea.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/20.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/21.jpg


Are Walker I remember following your build you posting this pic reminds me of what a great car you made and how you got me liking classic rangie:cool:

[stirlsilver]

Wow. Great job. That is going to look awesome when it is finished.
Thanks Walker, I appreciate the compliment. I have a long way to go though!



Did you think about running the gas tanks in the other direction?

I finished my Rangie ute last year and was able to fit 2 - 110litre tanks across the chassis. The Disco chassis should be the same width so it would work. If you are going to run straight gas then every little bit counts. If we go out doing hard core stuff thenI con only just make it through a long weekend on 180litre useable.

Here are a couple of pics. I have changed a few things since these pics were taken but you get the idea.

Thanks for the tip on the positioning of the tanks. You must have gotten some much fatter 110L LPG tanks than I did. Mine are 1080mm long and the dimension across the chassis is only 780mm, so they will be poking out a long way in my case.

Initially I did consider doing it the way you did it, but I figured that the tray would end up sitting that much higher with that configuration so I opted for the tanks this way as it allowed for longer and thinner tanks.

The interesting thing in your photos is that the tray doesn't seem to be that high! I think you were able to mount them much lower in your configuration.

I know what you mean about every litre counting when you are on straight LPG. That's why I tried my best to get as much LPG as possible. I was hoping to fit larger tanks but couldn't. I think a way around this will be to make a system that allows me to mount a 3rd auxillary tank on top of the tray for those EXTRA long tips ;) I'll deal with that later though!

Thanks for sharing those photos though. Hopefully this will end up as nice as what you have achieved there.


Hey Stirl, good to see you're back - starting to think you were on an extended hiatus. Great to see you've joind the 2 wheeled fraternity - and a good choice of bike too! If you want someone to go for a ride with, sing out, and I'll be there in a flash:).

Cheers - Gav


Hey Gav, yeah time is a bit precious with me, I actually have another OS trip coming up next month and then I am thinking of perhaps taking some annual leave overseas... So seems like i'm going to keep robbing time from this project! But I guess as long as I don't lose motivation I can keep chipping away at it.

Thanks for the offer on the ride. I'll keep you posted on when we next decide to do a ride!


Anyway, just a quick update. I've ordered all the SHS steel to do the tray frame, i've also done the drawings for the inner tray frame (the one that supports the LPG tanks). It seems like i'm getting better at doing drawings:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/2.jpg

[stirlsilver]

Alright, some very good progress made yesterday in the workshop. I guess that is to be expected considering I was there from 12pm till 1am and for some of that time my friend Donovan was helping me out!

The flanges which are to be bolted on to the chassis were made and drilled with pilot holes so they could be used as a template when making the holes on the chassis:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/07/1423.jpg

In each of the four locations the holes were drilled out to the size of the crush tubes, the crush tubes inserted and welded in, as you can see below (sorry for the rubbish photos, I forgot the camera again!):

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/07/1424.jpg

Starting to bolt in the flanges along the way. I was very happy how neatly it was all going together. In the background of the photo below you can see the other side welded up and Donovan grinding away:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/07/1425.jpg

I then continued on with the fitup of the inner frame which supports the LPG tanks. The dimensions in my drawings were pretty close which was nice to see:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/07/1426.jpg

The lower beams were fitted in:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/07/1427.jpg

And finally for good measure I slid in the tanks and was very happy with how things are coming together:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/07/1428.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/07/1429.jpg

That's it for this weekend!

[McDisco]

Nice work Stirling! Cant wait to hit the track with you to see how it goes...

[stirlsilver]

Nice work Stirling! Cant wait to hit the track with you to see how it goes...

Thanks Angus! More time in the workshop today, though not quite so much progress.

The tank clamps I purchased had the bolt at 90degees and wouldn't fit in the columns of the frame.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/07/1123.jpg

So I had to go around and slice all the welds and spin the clamps around so they would all fit. A fairly fiddley process.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/07/1124.jpg

Slipped the tanks tanks in to see how it was all fitting up and quite happy with the results.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/07/1125.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/07/1126.jpg

One problem i've also found is that the valve covers foul on the frame. I had figured I would simply take the covers off along with the base and just have the valves exposed. The issue with that is that the serial number parque is on the bases... So, going to have to think a bit more on what to do about that.

[rangieman]

Looking good mate , Will have to catch up soon Now you have a bike maybe a ride :burnrubber:

[stirlsilver]

Looking good mate , Will have to catch up soon Now you have a bike maybe a ride :burnrubber:

Hey Chris! Good to hear from you, and yep definitely should arrange something, it's been AGES! Maybe when I get back from Argentina (I leave next saturday) I'll ride down your way and we can do a bit of a cruise.

Anyway, back on topic. A few more hours spent in the workshop.

I did some of the welds for the frame and got started on the removable top braces that go over the top of the tanks.

I had forgotten to account for the thickness of the straps on the tanks so I found myself with the pieces sitting a bit too high... So I had to go and notch out the areas and then close them up again.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/07/1095.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/07/1096.jpg

Also, I got started on the flanges of the braces... I have to make 16 of the damn things! Below is as far as I got. 2 sets of 4 stacked ready to be drilled and a whole lot more waiting for the same.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/07/1097.jpg

This will be the last update for a few weeks as I won't get back from Argentina until 30th of July.

[V8Landy]

Looking good Stirlo. Been very busy by the look of it. Cheers Brett

[stirlsilver]

Looking good Stirlo. Been very busy by the look of it. Cheers Brett

Thanks Brett, it's been in the process for a long time... and I have a long way to go!

I was wondering if anyone can think of how I can use some sample air filters we got in at work today. They are a two piece filter which attach end on end for gas turbines (you need around 500 of them for a gas turbine!).

I think if I figured out a way to use them I would never have to change the air filter in the car again!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/07/1026.jpg

[dullbird]

Cool lamp shade :p

[Casper]

Just poke it out of the bonnet like the ricers do....Maybe not...

Lay one across the back of the cab and run the air intake down the centre consul.

You shouldn't need a snorkle and it won't suck in much dust there :D

No really, don't :)

[disco2hse]

I figure that if someone can do this to their car then you ought to have no difficulty with fitting it in somehwere.

http://images.loqu.com/contents/426/108/image/2008-11-04/10.jpg

[stirlsilver]

I'm back!... For a while.

I got in to the workshop today with the plan of finishing off the 16 flanges and getting the beams tack welded into position. A highly repetitive task considering I had to drill out alllll the holes and then run the tap throught them! And then all the tidying up to get rid of burrs and the like!

4 groups of 4 plates welded together and drilled out:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/08/845.jpg

All the hole tapping done:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/08/846.jpg

And to finish up, the flanges for the horizontal beams were tacked in!:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/08/847.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/08/848.jpg

Next time will be a bit tricker, as I need to cut the gussets for the 4 corners to stiffen up the frame.

I plan to get another day of work in next weekend. Following that I will be away for a 3 week holiday in Europe :D

[stirlsilver]

Update from last weekend's tinkering.

Gussets are in... They were a bit on the fiddley side!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/08/392.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/08/393.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/08/394.jpg

Anyway, holiday time now (or in 3 days anyway). Stay posted for more progress on my return!

[stirlsilver]

Well, i'm back again. I had an excellent holiday, if anyone is curious :p

Right, back on topic. Does anyone know what happens when you go in to the workshop at 10:30am on Saturday and then don't leave until 3:30am the next day??

The answer is: Excellent progress!

Welded in the diagonal braces to stiffen the inner frame in the longitudinal direction and bolted the tank brackes onto the inner frame:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/09/294.jpg

I then pulled the frame off the car to reach all the welds which I couldn't reach with it on the chassis.

Then, after many hours of work, ALL of the external frame members are cut and tacked in place:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/09/295.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/09/296.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/09/297.jpg

I'm happy with the way it has all turned out, and it looks like everything ended up aligning correctly with only an error of a few mm here or there.

Next week i'll go back and weld up all the joints. I now have to start thinking about that rear winch mount!

[disco2hse]

Outstanding :)

Conventional wisdom seems to suggest whacking those right angle corners off the rear and having angles there instead. Looking at them, might they be prone to being bent out of shape without bracing?

Just a thought. Great to see it coming along, from one of those who have *not* had a holiday :mad:

Alan :p

[stirlsilver]

Conventional wisdom seems to suggest whacking those right angle corners off the rear and having angles there instead. Looking at them, might they be prone to being bent out of shape without bracing?


Thanks for the pointer there Alan. You are right that the corners do seem a bit light in the structural department. And when compared with the middle and front of the tray, they certainly would be weaker. However, I think they may be strong enough since the steel is 3mm wall and it will have a 5mm thick aluminium surface fixed onto it.

My old land rover's tray was basically entirely made from aluminium and I had slammed it against a few rocks and trees in my time and it never deformed.

I'll ask the engineer when I arrange him/her to come and do an inspection of the framing to see what they think

[stirlsilver]

Update again,
Tray frame is all welded up (as of 2 weeks ago). And then last weekend I cut out a rough cardboard template of the rear wall profile so I can now go to wreckers and see what rea wall will suit best.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/876.jpg

End of the update.

[stirlsilver]

Tonight I was doing some more design work. I had a few hours free to do the work.

I was working on the design of the rear winch mount to see what would fit reasonably well and came up with the following concept built from 5mm plate:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/748.jpg

I figured that since this assembly is going to take a fair amount of load, that I should do a structural assessment of the assembly to make sure it would be up to handling the loads that could eventuate in use. So I built a model to do a Finite Element Analysis (FEA) of the design:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/749.jpg

I applied the boundary conditions, I figured a decent starting point was a load directly backwards of 100,000N which is just over 10 tons on the winch mounting points. The reason I chose 10 tons is I figured that would be about the expected shock load you could get from a snatch or a 9,000lb winch. Below are the loads applied:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/750.jpg

And got the results, the deformation shown is magnified by 5 times:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/751.jpg

Based on the above, the design fails. The main area is in the corner as you can see in red where there is a stress concentration. So I added some 50mm gussets in this region and got the following results:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/752.jpg

The above is better, but it still fails in a lot of the areas. Light blue are above the yield stress of steel (you can see it on the bar graph). So it looks like I will need to re-design the part with 8mm steel (or maybe 10mm?) and see if that would be up to handling these loads. But that will be another day's job.

[slug_burner]

Have you modelled the chassis? I doubt that is made of 5mm or 8 or 10mm for that matter. I know that the forces are not tangential on the chassis but at what stage do you start to rip the holes with the fastners?

[stirlsilver]

Have you modelled the chassis?

Yes I have, the exposed ends of the model are 3mm thick steel which is what the chassis is made from. You will see the step where it goes from 5mm to 3mm in the image below.

Anyway, I spent some more time on the model to see what I could do to minimize the stress in the part. The wall which the winch was mounted to was increased to 8mm and the stiffening that runs over the top and down to the rails was increased to 10mm. I even radiused various areas to reduce the stress concentration that created. Unfortunately that still wasn't enough. Below you can see all the areas which are above the yield stress of the steel.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/675.jpg

I then reduced the applied load from 100,000N to 60,000N and get the following results:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/676.jpg

I tried a few other stiffening methods, however it is proving to be very difficult to get the stresses all over the part to be under the yield stress, even with a load of 60,000N. I think I'm going to have to ask my house mate who is a structural engineer to see what his suggestions are.

Unfortunately due to the shape of the winch I don't have many areas where I can add stiffening!

[slug_burner]

By the shape of the winch comment I take it you cannot increase the size of the gusset to that in the violet or even the red below?

Increase the material yield strength, use a bisalloy with a higher hardness?

Use a doubler plate as per the yellow?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/670.jpg

[Paulie]

as someone who is slowly trying to learn my way around solid works...

are your images above showing deformation and the areas of red are areas of max deormation??
if so, would it be better to look at the FOS images to see what the minimum FOS is for the design.

Regards,
Paul

[stirlsilver]

By the shape of the winch comment I take it you cannot increase the size of the gusset to that in the violet or even the red below?

That's right, on one side the motor is sticking out and the other the gearbox so I am limited in those directions.



Increase the material yield strength, use a bisalloy with a higher hardness?


Always an option, but I imagine the material is more expensive and I would probably need a special weld filler? I would prefer to stick with carbon steel to keep things simple.



Use a doubler plate as per the yellow?


I agree along the lines you are going, basically increasing the thickness. I initially didin't want to go that way as having up to 20mm of steel in areas seemed excessive!! Anyway I beefed up the material in certain areas and I think it's now about as good as it will get. Thanks for your advice.



as someone who is slowly trying to learn my way around solid works...

are your images above showing deformation and the areas of red are areas of max deormation??
if so, would it be better to look at the FOS images to see what the minimum FOS is for the design.
l

The diagrams I am showing are stress levels in the material which basically gives the same information as FOS. When looking at the stress distribution I was just looking for areas that were greater than the yield stress of carbon steel (250MPa).

With Factor of Safety all you are looking at is Yield Stress/Stress so you would be looking for values lower than 1 (stress being higher than yield stress) so it's basically the same. Good luck with learning SolidWorks!! Quite a useful tool.

By simply increasing the top plate size at the end of the chassis runners from 5mm to 10mm I managed to cut out the areas of excessive stress that were there before:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/606.jpg

I then simply made the material 20mm in the area where the stress was occurring and basically addressed the problem:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/607.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/608.jpg

While I do have some very small areas where the stress exceeds the yield stress of the steel, I don't think I will bother worrying about it. The reason for this is that I checked how the part handled with 60,000N being applied tangentially (so being pulled from the side). And I found that the failure occured in the 3mm chassis rails, so no point trying to beef it up anymore if one of the failure modes is the chassis:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/609.jpg

[stirlsilver]

The part drawings of the Rear Winch Mount are done :cool: I'm getting better at it.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/543.jpg

[disco2hse]

Good stuff Stirl. Next they'll have you managing projects in power plants and things :p

[slug_burner]

Do a sim on what it looks like without the small gussets. It might save you a bit of welding.

[stirlsilver]

Well the winch mount is starting to come to life. One problem was encountered. It seems that the way I modelled the winch wasn't correct. The gearbox and motor foul with the gussets far more than I had expected. But that is easy to fix, I'll just sit the winch off the plate by about 40mm and it will all be fine.

Below are the photos of what got done today:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/443.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/444.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/445.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/446.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/447.jpg

I actually got most of the welding of the parts shown above done, however part way through I ran out of filler in the mig and by the time that was all sorted it was late. So I'll save it for another day. I'm happy with the work I got done today though!

[slug_burner]

You are going to plate the winch bar to the chassis and not just butt weld?

[stirlsilver]

You are going to plate the winch bar to the chassis and not just butt weld?

Right now the assembly is just tacked on to the chassis, i'll then pull it off to get to welds I couldn't reach insitu. When I put it back on I'll fillet weld around the perimeter of the chassis/winch mount joint. Then I'll put 3 5mm strapping plates on each rail across the joint.

[slug_burner]

Sounds like a plan:cool:

[stirlsilver]

Well, the winch mount is almost finished. I used some of the 40mm SHS material I had left to shift the mounting point of the winch where I needed it.

Basically all that is left to do is cut out the 10mm thick gusset stiffeners weld them in place and then weld the completed item onto the chassis with the 5mm strapping plates!

There was a lot of experimentation with the welding as I went... Ordinary in some places, not too bad in others. It's going to take more time for be to be any good really...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/34.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/35.jpg

[dirtdawg]

Looking good mate

[stirlsilver]

Hello again everyone!

I've been too social lately and haven't really been around during the weekends to work on the car! Anyway, got to spend some hours on it yesterday and managed to weld in the rear winch mount:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/12/951.jpg

Welding is still hit or miss... I need more practice.

[crash]

Looking good.

One comment to help with your welding, looks like you are using fairly thick steel which is good. To help get the penetration required I would be bevelling your edges first. It may take 2 or even 3 passes to fill in the void, but you would end up with a stronger weld.
I personally would not have used a straight but joint where the winch plate attaches to the chassi but would have had the joins at an agle giving you a longer weld.

[stirlsilver]

Looking good.

One comment to help with your welding, looks like you are using fairly thick steel which is good. To help get the penetration required I would be bevelling your edges first. It may take 2 or even 3 passes to fill in the void, but you would end up with a stronger weld.
I personally would not have used a straight but joint where the winch plate attaches to the chassi but would have had the joins at an agle giving you a longer weld.

Thanks for the information there Crash. I did bevel all edges where I had plates or sections butting up to each other. Most of the time I tried to achieve welding sections at 90degrees to each other so I could get a fillet weld in.

I beveled both the 3mm wall of the chassis and the winch mount to allow me to do a full penetration butt weld. Then I fillet welded in 5mm plates across these joints just in case.

On another note, I went to Enkelman Engineering today to have a chat with one of the guys there at the office. We wemt through some of the diagrams and photos I produced and they were quite happy with what they saw. Turns out all the schematics and photos I am producing can be compiled into the engineering report to make things easier.

I basically just need to finish the car, also weld up some samples of SHS tubes and take it all round to them to get inspected in one hit.

One area which has been flagged up as a potential sumbling point is the engine, if I take the V8 engine and put two turbos on it, I will need to get it tested to make sure it meets emissions requirements which could be tricky...

[Hay Ewe]

Mate, the Solid Works and FEA that you are using - I am mighty impressed, I am aware of them and have an understanding of FEA but have never used them.

Is the FEA program one you have at home or do you have access to it?

good project,

Hay Ewe

[stirlsilver]

Mate, the Solid Works and FEA that you are using - I am mighty impressed, I am aware of them and have an understanding of FEA but have never used them.

Is the FEA program one you have at home or do you have access to it?

good project,

Hay Ewe

Thank you very much Hay. The FEA is a component of the SolidWorks Simulation package. I managed to convince the company I work for to purchase the software, and it has been a good investment! So I just use the software at home when the license is not in use.

FEA is quite powerful and I use it at work from time time, along with Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD). When I get around to doing the design work on the engine, I can see that I will use some CFD to design some things there... Got to finish the back first though! I simply don't have that much time to do all the work I want to do!

[SPROVER]

Hey Stirling its coming along nice mate.Ive got my turbo manifolds off my Rover SD1 and will be selling them soon.Let me know if your interested.:D
There just sitting here in the shed ready to go to a new home :angel:

[stirlsilver]

Hey Chris,
Thanks for the offer mate, from memory wasn't the manifold you had for a single turbo sitting above the engine?

I'm dreaming up a couple of turbos siting on either side of the engine at this stage :D

[SPROVER]

I had a single set up but the manifolds are set up for twins :D 2 high mounts on either side of the engine.I can send you a photo on your phone
tomorrow if you like.

[stirlsilver]

Work has started on forming the roof. I've cut some ribs out for the profile of the roof. Next I need to get some Polyurethane Foam to put into the spaces and form the complete profile.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/12/553.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/12/554.jpg

Actually, does anyone have some blocks of Polyurethane foam in Victoria? or know of a supplier where I could buy some?? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!

Oh and Chris, thanks for the offer on the manifolds. It's wayy too early for me to be getting that stuff at this stage. When I finish the back end I'll get onto it.

[seriesLR]

First off great work I love the whole disco ute concept !

You can use regular polystyrene as your mould plug, all you need to do is wrap it in glad wrap and tape over any possible exposed areas. I use this method for making carbon ram air tubes/airboxes for race bikes as well as for various fairing parts.
It's cheap and you can shape the foam with a plaster "sponge" sanding block.

It looks as though you've settled on your winch box design. If it where me I'd be lapping those little gusset doublers over the chassis extention rather than corner to corner. I think the biggest issue you will have is twisting from the top (as the first model shows) possibly some ribs (25x5 flatbar on edge) on the outside of the 8mm plate and then under the large angled plate? It wouldn't really triangulate it but would make it a lot harder to twist it.

Ash.

[stirlsilver]

Alright, I'm back... For now.

I spent another night in the workshop. But first thing is first. I got hold of of a back wall and rear window of a 2001 Nissan Navara. Nice and flat panel which should be a bit easier to work with:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/1264.jpg

I have come up with the idea that I will use a high density 2 part Polyeurathane Foam. I will form a rough shape of the roof using MDF sheets and the ribs I cut out previously and pour in the foam and get it to expand and take up the rough shape I need. Then I'll profile the roof down to the shape of the ribs and glass over the top.

So I started by bonding in the ribs and then mounting a back plate wrapped in cling wrap (so that the foam doesn't stick to the board). The plate was held in with wire off the ribs:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/1265.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/1266.jpg

Various small gaps were sealed with silicone. The plan is to now go around the outside with some sheets to form the rough outer profile. I only got to the stage where one was mounted before it was 11pm and time to go home:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/1267.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/1268.jpg

Next time i'll continue installing the outer panels and doing the tricky corners. Then maybe I'll be ready to pour some foam!

[stirlsilver]

Well I am finally at the stage where I need to buy the polyeurathane foam mix it and pour it in to form the roof! Exciting times!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/565.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/566.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/567.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/568.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/569.jpg

Should be interesting next weekend.

[Casper]

First of all, I love your work and the CAD drawings are fantastic.

I've tried to follow it when I can but haven't had a look in a while.

I don't know if you have covered this already but why did you just not use steel and weld it in.

Much quicker and easier than what you are doing there.

You may have had to do it in 3 sections but the roof is steel so it wouldn't have been a problem to stitch it together with the MIG and then a bit of filler to clean it up.

You will now have the problem of matching the glass down to the roof level and trying to make sure you get a reasonable finish from the matting surface as it wont be like an out of the mould finish with gell coat.

You will still have to use filler to get a good finish in the end.

Cheers Casper.

[stirlsilver]

Thanks for the feedback Casper.

I know I could have used steel to do the roof and I have seen a number of people who have done these sorts of modifications graft on parts of roof sections to get the profile they need.

Because I am going with a customized shape for the roof onto the rear wall, it would be very difficult for me to find pieces of steel which were close to the profiles I would need. So that would mean I would have to shape up the steel and I don't have access to the sort of equipment needed to do that.

So... basically my only option was to go with Fibreglass. I know I am going to have a few hours of sanding coming up, but with the ribs embedded in the foam, at least I have some profiles already there so all I need to do is take the mid section down to the rib profile and then shape the corners. After fibreglassing I agree I'm going to have to do a fair bit of work to get a nice smooth surface, but that will come with working it.

[stirlsilver]

Ok, an update from the work over the last couple of weekends:
I mixed and poured the foam into my mold. Below is the result after I pulled the mold off:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/909.jpg

The inside didn't expand to the point I was hoping it would so it means I'll need to spend some time adding more foam until I get it up to the roof. It shouldn't be difficult to do this though:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/910.jpg

After spending some time with a strip of ply wood and some 80 grit sand paper I got the profile down to what I wanted it:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/911.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/912.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/913.jpg

For the coating of the foam I was considering perhaps not bothering with layering the foam with fibreglass but instead just running a few coats of epoxy over the top. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I'm just not sure if I do it this way, if the surface will be hard enough to handle minor knocks.

[slug_burner]

I would use some glass cloth otherwise it will not have any strength and will crack when knocked. Without the fiber the crack will keep running and want to peel off in chunks.

[isuzurover]

Nice work, haven't stumbled across this thread before. Have you fitted crush tubes to the winch extension?



I would use some glass cloth otherwise it will not have any strength and will crack when knocked. Without the fiber the crack will keep running and want to peel off in chunks.

What he said. Glass over it or it will crack like crazy - especially where steel meets foam.

I have seen panelbeaters make up shapes like you have there using minimal tools - hammer and a couple of blocks of steel as dollys.

Bog hides a lot of imperfections....

[stirlsilver]

Thanks for the input guys, I'll glass over it then. I can see how it would be very easy for the two materials to separate at the joint if I leave it this way.

Isuzu - on your comment about crush tubes. I'm assuming you are talking about the SHS I added in behind the winch mount as spacers?

When I welded them in, I thought about the crushing scenario and I figured that given that it is 3mm thick steel and tha the SHS is only 40x40mm, it would be very hard to crush. But on thinking again, why risk it, it's easy enough to add them, so I'll do that.

[isuzurover]

...

Isuzu - on your comment about crush tubes. I'm assuming you are talking about the SHS I added in behind the winch mount as spacers?

When I welded them in, I thought about the crushing scenario and I figured that given that it is 3mm thick steel and tha the SHS is only 40x40mm, it would be very hard to crush. But on thinking again, why risk it, it's easy enough to add them, so I'll do that.

Yes... Try rerunning your FEM with the SHS added - plastic deformation for sure. Won't be catastrophic, as it is in compression, but the bolts will work loose, etc...

I would use at least 6mm wall for the crush tubes as they will have most of the load.

[Casper]

Definitely glass it all and at least to about 6" or more over the roof line.

The problem with how your doing that is that the roof always has some amount of movement and the foam with some resin in it will set almost rock hard so it will almost crack straight away.

Also the roof gets pretty hot so you can end up with issues with expansion cracks at a later date.

This can be averted to a point by following the instructions keeping a close eye on the amount of catalyst in the resin and the ambient temp of the room, too hot or too cold can ruin your job....thus your day.

You have me contemplating doing a similar job, any idea about engineering implications of doing a 10 to 20" chassis stretch along with the cut down?

Cheers Casper

[disco2hse]

Definitely glass it all and at least to about 6" or more over the roof line.

Really? 6 inches of fibreglass might a little heavy don't you think?

Or did you mean 6oz?

[kelvo]

Really? 6 inches of fibreglass might a little heavy don't you think?

Or did you mean 6oz?

I think he ment overlap onto original roof by 6" not 6" thick.

[disco2hse]

Now that you mention it, probably.

Epoxy is difficult stuff to work with in a high stress area like that. Cracking is a potential risk in any event, I think.

[Casper]

Really? 6 inches of fibreglass might a little heavy don't you think?

Or did you mean 6oz?

Really?

Yes I meant OVERLAP the joint by atleast 6"s or it will crack at the joint for sure.

Cheers Casper

[stirlsilver]

Thanks for all of the advice guys, i'm taking it all onboard. From what I have been able to read, it seems like Epoxy is the best resin to use for this application. So I am thinking along the lines of sanding the metallic surface of the roof with a very coarse sand paper to give the resin something to key strongly onto. At this stage i'm thinking of perhaps using 2 or 3 layers of chopstrand matt with each layer being staggered. It will be fun blending it into the existing roof!



You have me contemplating doing a similar job, any idea about engineering implications of doing a 10 to 20" chassis stretch along with the cut down?


Based on my talks with the engineers so far on this project, they had no concerns on my chassis cut down, mainly because what I put in is huge compared to the original structure.

As for the chassis stretch, that would be a completely new scenario, off the top of my head there would be two things that would concern the engineers, the first being the structural integrity of the extension. If you can prove that what you have done for the extension is equal or stronger than the original structure you should be fine. The second would be the effect of the dynamics of the vehicle which would be harder to determine, then again I seem to remember someone else has already done an chassis extension here and had it engineered? That could be used as a reference case.

Back on the project, I was in the workshop again today. Since I haven't organised any of the fibreglass materials yet, there wasn't any progress on the roof. So I worked on the rear wall.

I finished trimming off the majority of un-necessary steel from the donor wall:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/04/1196.jpg

I then split the wall as I need the overall assembly to be higher so I plan to add a sheet of steel in between the top half and the bottom half to get the required height.

I sat the rear window frame up against the back of the car, and then I realised how much of a curve to top of the glass actually has. I had realised that the top was curved but I had figured I could get away with it since the roof of the disco is curved. But since I have the horizontal gutter it does look a little unusual...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/04/1197.jpg

It's strange how these sorts of things don't become apparent until you bring them together... I could go about modifying it so the top is flat, but then I will end up with a non standard rear window and a hell of a lot more sheet metal work. I'm going to have to think on this...

Here is the lower part of the wall:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/04/1198.jpg

[slug_burner]

A few sheet metal bits to fill in the difference.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/04/1194.jpg
Still looks a bit odd.

[stirlsilver]

A few sheet metal bits to fill in the difference.

Still looks a bit odd.

It almost needs a rectangular window doesn't it. Thing is I don't think I have seen a rear wall with a rectangular window large enough. The only thing I can think of is the rear wall of a truck, but they are rare at wreckers.

[slug_burner]

What about the rear door of a disco? Someone else used some mazda van, I'll see if I can find the thread and post a link to it.

Ok found it. here is a pic

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/01/290.jpg
it is roversmith's conversion, this is his thread http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members-rides/33722-discovery-2a-ute.html

And here is the statement about the rear panel which I think he selected for the close match to the side panel behind the door, the profile is very similar.


the panels that I used,they were off about mid 80s Mazda B1800's.

He had to use two rear panels to stretch across the back of the disco.

Somehow I suspect that you will have known about this thread as it is one of the first well done conversions I remember seeing on this site.

[slug_burner]

I suspect that the rain gutter at the back is not doing you any favours

I used paint on this it is a pretty poor editing program but you will get the drift.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/04/1186.jpg

[stirlsilver]

Yes, as you say the gutter is what is causing the problem, but it's there and in the end I would want it anyway. Otherwise this build would look like any other Disco Ute build.

I had seen Roversmith's build, and it only worked for him because again, he didn't have a gutter and it matched his roofline.

In my instance I need the top of the glass to be flat. I had a quick play with photoshop and this is what I got:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/04/1185.jpg

I could cut and shut the verical parts to make them closer to vertical, but across the top, I would need to graft in another section. All getting a bit crazy for my very basic sheet metal working skills!

[slug_burner]

look for a more favourable donor

[bush ranger]

G'day. Can I (as a sheetie) just say, having seen your work on the chassis and rear wall supports, the effort put into the rain gutter, and your inventiveness in building the roof, that a bit of a re-work of the donor window cavity is the least you have to worry about. Also your last go at it using photoshop definitely has the right proporsions, and looks like a Landy. Does rule out being able to use the Navara glass and rubbers though. A small price to pay IMHO, and could be the difference between this project being able to carry off a "factory" look (as does Roversmiths' D2). As opposed to so many that are thrown together with the best of intentions but the least consideration for what will look right. Keep it up and keep us up to date. Cheers, Bush Ranger.

[agrojnr]

could you possibly use a series type set up at the back at least there readly available just a thought


Adam

[slug_burner]

here is how you can match that straight line of the rain gutter

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/06/58.jpg

[stirlsilver]

G'day. Can I (as a sheetie) just say, having seen your work on the chassis and rear wall supports, the effort put into the rain gutter, and your inventiveness in building the roof, that a bit of a re-work of the donor window cavity is the least you have to worry about. Also your last go at it using photoshop definitely has the right proporsions, and looks like a Landy. Does rule out being able to use the Navara glass and rubbers though. A small price to pay IMHO, and could be the difference between this project being able to carry off a "factory" look (as does Roversmiths' D2). As opposed to so many that are thrown together with the best of intentions but the least consideration for what will look right. Keep it up and keep us up to date. Cheers, Bush Ranger.

Thank you very much Bush Ranger! Your comments are very much appreciated. I'll definitely keep the option of re-working the navara frame into something that suits the profile of the car better.

In addition to that option, I was thinking of getting one of our suppliers at work that does a lot of sheet work to simply make up a frame for me with the window dimensions I want, the cheapest version would be getting a flat sheet of steel and having a hole laser out for glass with the dimensions I need and then grafting up the sides as necessary. Maybe I might be able to get away with this option if I use the right kind of window seal to give the factory look?

The seals I'm thinking are something like:
http://www.scottsoldautorubber.com.au/page1.jpg
http://www.scottsoldautorubber.com.au/page2.jpg
http://www.scottsoldautorubber.com.au/page3.jpg
http://www.scottsoldautorubber.com.au/page4.jpg


The more sophisticated and expensive option is to have the hole edge turned in or out to inset or outset the glass, I see a lot of cars have the glass inset so that the surface of the glass is flush with the surface of the steel. Obviously that would be very labour intensive and as a result cost a lot of $$'s.

The final option I was looking at was perhaps using a side window from a van, but they are more rectangular, and may not suit too well.


could you possibly use a series type set up at the back at least there readly available just a thought


Adam

Hi Adam, are you suggesting the sliding windows configuration? I had a series land rover with those, and they rattled quite a bit!


here is how you can match that straight line of the rain gutter

Hi Slug Burner, i'm not sure if something is playing up on my end, but I can only see the very top of the photo you uploaded to your photobucket account. Can you check to see if it is not corrupted?

Update - OK, I can see it now!! Interesting idea!

[stirlsilver]

So I don't know how many months it has been since I was able to do any work on this project. It's been very difficult to have any time to do anything these days because I'm being sent away to Thailand every second week. I think since the beginning of this year, I have been in Thailand around 60 days!

Well, this weekend I had a chance to do some work, and I did. I finally epoxied the roof!

Due to the curvature of the roof and the fact that Epoxy resin does not dissolve the binder in chopstrand mat, I had to cut up the matting into a series of 400mm sections and make each section overlap half of the previous section, so at all points there are at least 2 layers of chop strand matt:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/805.jpg

The corners were by far the trickiest part of the whole operation. Before starting to fit the layers I show in the photo above, I ran a single strip of chop strand approximately 100mm wide right across the seam where the steel roof joins the polyeurathane foam. Then I placed the large 400mm sections over that.

Below is what it looked like when I finished up with the chop strand and epoxy. It took some effort to prevent any bubbles from forming due to the compound curves! But I got there in the end:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/806.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/807.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/808.jpg

There is going to be much fun had when it comes to getting the surface down to something which is smooth enough to paint!!

[jwatt79]

So inspiring!! Keep up the good work. I don't know how you stay motivated with so much else going on but job very well done:D

[stirlsilver]

So inspiring!! Keep up the good work. I don't know how you stay motivated with so much else going on but job very well done:D

Thank you very much jwatt, I appreciate the comment. Definitely helps keep the project rolling :)

I was doing some tinkering in SolidWorks to work out what I'm going to do about the window. And I think I should be able to get away with a simple panel with a laser cut hole and a couple of folds:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/472.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/473.jpg

I was thinking of getting a panel which is wider and taller than what I need and then all I need to do is trim it down to the size in the workshop. Below is how I was thinking of getting the panel done:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/474.jpg

The glass will be held in using a seal like one of the ones below (from scottsoldautorubber.com.au):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/475.jpg

I'm not sure how I will go around the corners at this stage, I may try to graft in some panels together, or just go again with the foam and fibreglass method like I did with the roof.

Actually on the roof, I went and checked up on it this weekend, and it seems like it has been that cold here in Melbourne that the epoxy curing rate has been slowed down significantly. So I went out and bought a very over priced electric blanket and currently wraped it around the roof. I'll try to go and see if that fixed the issue tomorrow.

On a separate issue. Does anyone know of a small garage or workshop for rent near to Wheelers Hill? I would like to try and relocate the car to somewhere that is closer so it is easier for me to work on it.

[Skiboy]

Hey great project - love the roof profile - will make it unique!

Rear wall - consider maybe going right out to the edge with steel and either weld jointing or but jointing at edge - a rounded corner my not look right - our rangie I think looks good with the sharp corner which are butt jointed and only glued to the internal frame (sorry no close up on file to show corner but has folds in rear wall like you plan).

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/446.jpg

And profile
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/447.jpg

The rubber 218.043 listed above is similar to what I put round the series small rear windows - did fine on the tight turns see pic below.

NOTE - as someone on this site suggested to me put the bead on the inside otherwise soemone can simply pull the bead then remove the window to break in.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/448.jpg

The rubber profile
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/449.jpg

Actual window size
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/450.jpg

Hope that helps
SKiboy

[stirlsilver]

Thanks for your input Skiboy. Good to get information from someone who has already been through the process.

As for how I profile the corners, i'll wait until I have the rear quarter window frames and the rear window panel in place before deciding how I do the corner panels. At this stage I am leaning towards something with a radiused edge (more work...).

I have another update.

I bought some foam cored card and cut out the rear window panel profile I came up with and placed it on the car:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/167.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/168.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/169.jpg

The profile above is basically 10mm inset from my original drawing because some of the glass will be hidden by the rubber seal (I assumed it is around 10mm). Also the bottom corners have a 50mm radius instead of 30mm, I was concerned that it might be a bit much to ask a rubber seal to go round a curve on a 30mm radius. Actually I am even wondering if 50mm is too tight?

Anyway, I was happy with the profile when I was in the workshop looking at the car, but now looking at the photos, I'm wondering if the window is too... large, and rectangular? it's hard to judge because the edge of the sheet isn't actually the true edge of the bodywork. Any thoughts or opinions, let me know.

I also finished up preparing the lower part of the rear wall (ex Nissa Navara). With all the spot welded stiffening removed it is one flimsy panel:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/170.jpg

I quickly fit the navara panel on the car and it looks like it will fit in beautifully :D

This will be the last update for a few weeks. On Monday I am off overseas again, Thailand then Oman.

[Homestar]

I think the shape of the opening is fine, but maybe a bit big. I would bring the sides in just a bit, and the bottom up a fair bit. The top may be ok, or just a little high. Maybe some photo shopped versions would show a few more perspectives. Keep up the good work, it is coming along great.:) Looking forward to more updates when you next get back from OS.

Cheers - Gav

[stirlsilver]

What are the thoughts on this profile?

The originial size had an aspect ratio (Short/Long) of 0.4. What I show below is approximately an aspect ratio of 0.3:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/08/830.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/08/831.jpg

I think to make the above profile look a little better, what I need to do is add a small vertical wall to the front of the tray which will be easy enough to do.

[Homestar]

That looks good from where I sit.:)

[MacMan]

Concur.

BTW, if you're always looking backwards you can't go forwards. :D

[disco2hse]

Honestly Stirl, I think you have too much that is parallel. The angles of the glass parallel to the sides make it look like a work van or a 1960's caravan.

Have a look at stylish cars and you will always see that where there are angles, they point to different focal points. That gives them points of interest.

[bush ranger]

G'day, I can see the point disco2hse is making, but I can't say I agree with it here. Your challenge is to make sure you don't conform to modern styling principles, rather to follow the template already set down by the original designers of the D1. I think your most recent mock up accomplishes that adequately. But what you do with the rear window needs to be dictated by your treatment of the area from the B pillar around to your rear panel. I think you should concentrate on that area first. Maybe just with C.G.I's for now, rather than rescheduling the order of your build up at this point. Just make sure your roof, door, rear panel and the area between them is all one colour, so you can more easily see where you're heading. Cheers, Bush Ranger.

[loanrangie]

Honestly Stirl, I think you have too much that is parallel. The angles of the glass parallel to the sides make it look like a work van or a 1960's caravan.

Have a look at stylish cars and you will always see that where there are angles, they point to different focal points. That gives them points of interest.

I agree the verticals of the rear window should follow the lines of the B pillar otherwise it looks as if it was a last minute decision.

[turbopsi]

Love your work ! Progress information and pics are great.
I'll be watching your project journey with great interest.

[stirlsilver]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. And thanks for your comment turbo, I appreciate it.

Below are two concepts, one with Straigh edges the other with parabolic, what are the thoughts? When considering the concepts, ignore the straight outside edge of the red panel, it is just an arbritrary straight line. I haven't done the profile between the rear wall to the side panel yet!

Side View:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/08/13.jpg

Straight Edges:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/08/14.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/08/15.jpg

Parabolic Edges:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/08/16.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/08/17.jpg

[stirlsilver]

Sanding and the final coat of fibreglass is now on:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/1386.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/1387.jpg

[dirtdawg]

looking good

[disco2hse]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. And thanks for your comment turbo, I appreciate it.

Below are two concepts, one with Straigh edges the other with parabolic, what are the thoughts? When considering the concepts, ignore the straight outside edge of the red panel, it is just an arbritrary straight line. I haven't done the profile between the rear wall to the side panel yet!

The parabolic curves break up the boxiness a lot. I think that looks better.

I would even go further and look at putting a convex curve in at the top edge and a concave curve along the bottom. It serves to soften the whole thing, which will be important because the tray will be pretty square. It is one thing to look agricultural and functional, and quite another to look elegant while still being functional.

Alan

[turbopsi]

I'm leaning toward straight, no reason other than aesthetics and it's in line with the rest of the disco styling. More of a "factory" look.

Either way it's going to look great.

[slug_burner]

I think you should try and keep a similar styling relationship as is present in the rear door of the D2. Without going and looking at it I'd expect straight lines with rounded corners, with the straight lines parallel to the outer silhouette (constant width of panel). I hope that makes sense.

[stirlsilver]

Thanks for all the input everyone. I've actually gone with the curved window profile. I've realised that regardless of which shape of window I choose, the shape of the opening is going to drive how I profile the corner. So I chose the curved window since in my opinion it would look a little bit less like a home job.

Where things are going to get interesting is in the rear quarter windows... They are going to need to be custom made - curved laminated glass! I was hoping that I could simply find a way to cut the original rear door windows (since they already have the curvature I need). But as far as I can tell, it is impossible to cut toughened glass. Actually, is the glass toughened? I never checked, just assumed.

[boofdtl]

Looking good mate need to see more pics....;)

[Homestar]

But as far as I can tell, it is impossible to cut toughened glass. Actually, is the glass toughened? I never checked, just assumed.

No, you can't cut toughened glass, it will end up in a thousand pieces if you try. I don't know if what you have is laminated or toughened, but you can tell if it is by looking at the edge of the glass. You can see the lamination layers - 2 bits of glass with the plastic membrane in between them, where as toughened will just look like one piece - which it is.

You can cut laminated glass, but it takes a bit of practice, skill and knowhow to do properly. Cutting a curved piece of laminated glass would be tricky, but not impossible. You have to score both sides of the glass in exactly the same place with the glass cutter, then carefully fracture both pieces along the score lines. Then you need to squirt a bit of metho on the crack, and with a bit of careful working back and forth, the metho will dissolve the membrane. Lighting the metho helps things along the way, but watch the hairs on the back of your hand.:D - don't ask me how I know this...

[disco2hse]

Series glass doesn't have the right curvature then?

I can only think that have custom made glass that is curved and then toughened will be damned expensive :eek:

It will be interesting to see what you decide.

[Homestar]

It is. You can get get laminated glass done like this as well which would be marginally cheaper.

[slug_burner]

get some acrylic or polycarbonate, a bit of heat, etc

[McDisco]

Could you adapt the alpine windows from the disco to fit the rear quarters? Their already curved and laminated.

[stirlsilver]

Thanks for all the tips and info guys.

bacicat - Great advice, thanks for that! Does sound very fiddley, but if the windows are indeed laminated, I might give it a shot (I wouldn't have anything to lose!)

Slug Burner - Should the exercise of getting some custom windows made be ab****ely rediculous, I'll definitely look into this option you suggest, I hadn't considered it!

Angus - I had a look at the quarter windows you suggested (I think you meant the small ones that are in the rear doors), they are a bit too small for what I was thinking, but then again, they could be an option!

I was again in the workshop for a little while. I noticed that the roof is a little bit flimsy in between the front support that runs across and where the curved section I made starts. So I think I'll be needing to re fit the original roof support in a new location. So I started the prep work on that:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/1083.jpg

I also pulled off the cylinders, and the tray frame to start the process of fitting the rear wall. Below is what the trial fit looks like. The height of this panel is basically perfect. The only place that needs further modification is extending the width which should be easy enough to do:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/1084.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/1085.jpg

If you are wondering why I have the roof covered, it is because I've put an electric blanket on the roof to help the epoxy cure, it's been a bit too cold in Melbourne!

[stirlsilver]

Hello All, I'm back.

Spent some time in the workshop, though it wasn't anything amazing. I sanded down the roof some more and i'm now at the stage where some body filler is needed. It's definitely looking like I have some serious hours of sanding ahead of me...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/1422.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/1423.jpg

Also I repositioned the original roof stiffener and bonded it to the roof. Later I will weld in the pieces which join it to the roof frame.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/1424.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/1425.jpg

Also, i've bought a TIG welder, should be arriving next week. Time to start learning how to TIG weld!

[McDisco]

Hi Stirling

No I actually meant the curved alpine windows in the back roof section of the discos. These could be awesome corner windows, however it would be a pain fabricating the surrounds for them unless you chopped em out if the roof.

Angus

[MMEJ]

TIG welding is nice and staight forward a steady hand and lots of practice. The project is looking great cant wait to see the end result.

[stirlsilver]

I would like to thank Taro for coming out and helping me in the workshop today. Many hands do make for light work.

Welded in some spacers onto the frame. The rear skin will be attached to these areas:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/404.jpg

Cut out some areas on the ribbed rear wall to go around the horizontal beam of the frame. The wall will be welded directly to the beam in these areas to act as a support:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/405.jpg

And this is the trial fit up of the lower wall with the upper panel I had laser cut and folded:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/406.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/407.jpg

In addition to what is shown above, i've also spent a heap of hours bogging and sanding the roof. I still have a heap more hours to go on that...

Also, I gave the TIG welder a whirl. Certainly needing some practice there!!

[stirlsilver]

Hello All,
A quick update. I've been blending in the roof into the body work using body filler. It's proving to be quite a slow process.

I recently hit a big snag, and a lesson learned. I was originally using scales to measure the ratio between the filler and harderner. And towards the end I figured I could eye ball the right amount of hardnerer. Anyway, needless to say, I ended up applying body filler over quite a lot of the fibreglass which didn't cure after a week. The result was me needing to spend about 6 hours scraping it all off! Lesson learned.

Also, I've now fitted the roof support. I welded the bits together in the overhead position using my less than amature TIG skills. Results were ordinary but serve the purpose, a learning process none the less.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/11/1154.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/11/1155.jpg

[stirlsilver]

Some more time spent playing today, mostly on the roof, bogging and sanding.

I was finally down to the point where I was just touching up inperfections and circling them with a pencil. There were a lot of them:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/11/1070.jpg

After a lot of sanding i'm now down to the point where the roof is about 95% finished, a little more bogging is required here and there and then I need to go over it with a finer grit paper.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/11/1071.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/11/1072.jpg

Also, I welded in 2 cut down bolts to the spacers to allow me to fit the rear panel on and hold it in place. It is very likely i'm going to be fitting it and removing it a lot while I work out all the parts around it such as the lower wall and the rear quarter windows. So this makes my life much easier. If you look closely in the photo below you can see each of the bolts on the panel. When it comes to final installation, I will cut the studs off and plug weld the holes to the frame.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/11/1073.jpg

[slug_burner]

You have patience