1999 XEDi In tank fuel pump alternative ?

[Junosi]

Hello - first time poster here. I recently bought a 'fixer-upper' - a very well used/abused '99 Freelander 2litre diesel. Trying to work out its kinks and get it up and running for the wife so she'll stop using my discovery :) The old girl has a range of problems (freelander that is not the wife - although ...) including nerfed IRD, VCU and window regulators...

Anyways the particular problem I'm trying to overcome to start with is its lack of starting. Fairly sure that its down to no fuel pressure and the 'in-tank' fuel pump being cactus. Now my question to the experts is - has anyone replaced the pump with a generic electric pump rather than a *genuine* replacement ? Just trying to think of alternatives to the costly proper part - MLR quoted $600 and from overseas it'll be at least $350 before it hit Aussy shores.

I'm thinking some other pump must surely be able to do the job. I've had a good look around the net for info on what pressure and volume the original pump was meant to spit out with no luck. Anyone replaced theirs with something else ?

Cheers, Clark

[101RRS]

Are you sure the pump is U/S - disconnect the fuel line at the fuel filter to check. (EDIT wrong information) EDIT - The XEDI does not have a pump in the fuel tank (in fact no lift fuel pump at all - it has a system similar to that of an outboard motor fuel tank - fuel is sucked up and the system pressurised via a rubber hand pressure bulb pump that is located next to the fuel filter. To bleed the system and to get pressure you crack the valve at the top of the fuel filter and have the ignition on - you then pump the rubber bulb until it becomes hard which means the system is pressurised - you then close the bleed screw on the filter.) So - has the system been pumped up and bled correctly - then see my note below.

Is the fuel shut-off valve on the fuel injection pump working - if the car has sat for a while it may be seized up in the closed position so the engine will not get fuel. If it needs a new valve - prices range from $120 to $700 depending on where you get one.

Garry

[Junosi]

Thanks for the quick reply Garry. The plot thickens. I did as you suggested and checked the fuel cut-off solenoid. Took the thing out and eyeballed it, ran a current through it to see it in action and put it back - it seems to be working fine.

Just read your edit... pity I didn't see that before I spent the last hour or so dismantling my fuel pick up gauge unit :) just come back in to post that I don't seem to have a pump in the fuel tank - just a fuel gauge thingo. The car was in at MLR yesterday getting an alarm key fob programmed to the car (it had none) - I'd also asked them to diagnose why the engine wasn't starting. They told me I had no fuel pressure and that the fuel tank pump was faulty/dead - I did query the guy a bit about it as I'd read that only later models had the in tank pump. They even quoted me $600 for the pump and $300 labour to install it.....

Any ways moving right along... Before I took the car to MLR I'd pumped the bulb pump and bled it using the screw on top of the filter - didn't make any difference. So where does that leave me ? Am I looking at the fuel injection pump next or is there a sensor that I need to be checking ? Every thing I've read about the L series injection pump suggests that its super reliable. The guy I bought it off reckoned he'd done a compression test on it and that compression was within tolerances.

Cheers, Clark

ps learnt a lot about diesels so far, part of why I bought this car/lemon was to play around with a diesel

[Junosi]

Should probably add I've checked the glowplugs - voltage, resistance and then took them out and saw them glowing - they work (3 of them anyways ...). Also bypassed the fuel filter completely briefly - in case that was blocked. Plugged and unplugged all the sockets I could see around the fuel injector pump area, gave the lead off the number one injector a good going over. Fuel injector pump makes a buzz/tick when the ignition is on.

Running out of ideas of what to check, don't want to tow it back to MLR after their last misdiagnosis =/ I thinking maybe I should get a compression test done and a fuel pressure test done on the injection pump. If its got compression and its got fuel its meant to go right ?

Cheers, Clark

[101RRS]

So it would seem that you still not have confirmed you are getting fuel - when you removed the fuel shut-off valve - did fuel continue to run out - it it is pressurised it should have - if not try pulling the valve out again and pumping the bulb until fuel flows then as it is flowing put the valve back in.

Have you eithet the RAVE` or Haynes Manual (Haines is better for the home mechanic because it does tend to assume you are an idiot where the RAVE assumes you know what you are doing).

From the Haynes - The full process is: (I know you have done some of this but :)

1. Put fuel in tank - ensure fuel filter is not blocked
2. Crack top vent on the filter and pump bulb until fuel and no air comes out the filter - keep bulb squeesed and close bleed screw.
3. Turn on ignition (this activates the fuel shut off valve and allows fuel as far as the in jectors) pump the bulb until it goes hard - fuel is now in the injector pump, lines up to the injectors.
4. Turn off the ignition and depress accelerator to the floor - then start engine normally - may take some time to start - when starts run at fast idle for one minute - if runs rough there is still air - run at fast idle for another minute then all should idle smoothly.

So - that is fuel - whatabout air? Check engine is getting air - remove air filter and see if that makes a difference. Blown head gaskets - engine compression?

Timing - it is unlikely the Injection pump has been pulled out as it is a pain so for the moment I think you can assume it is OK (these are $1700 new and $1200 second hand - about $200 second hand from the UK).

Last - what about the ECU - is the check engine light come on - if so you need to get the codes read - clear them and start with a nice clean ECU - I recently has a problem with my fuel shut-off valve and it was the check engine light that showed up there was an issue.

The L series is a great engine - the TD5 s an updated 5 cylinder version of it.

Sorry - I cannot answer more. Camel Landy (Mark) is the knowledgeable one on these cars and I am sure he will be along soon.

Garry

[101RRS]

Also - if the crankshaft sensor is "wrong" the engine is unlikely to start - I do not know a lot about these. - well I know nothing actually:o

From the Haynes - diagnosis of non start (abridged version)

Faulty pre-heat system - unlikely to be an issue this time of year
Faulty stop solenoid (I do assume when you tested you did also take out the plunger and spring and tested that they were pulled up when power was applied.
Air in the fuel system - well could still be
Mechanical failure :(

Doesn't mention the crankshaft sensor - the ECU should show that.

Garry

[Junosi]

Thanks again Garry, I'll have another crack at it tomorrow. I've got the Rave CD - and you're right - there's a lot of assumed knowledge in there :)

Air I've also checked - in as much as I pulled the lid off the air filter and tried starting. Solenoid I did remove the plunger and spring yup, tested it with 12v and saw it pull the plunger in. Also once back in place gave it some volts and could hear it click open.

Engine warning light doesn't stay on - comes on when I first put ignition on then soon goes away. So assuming that means ECU and sensors are checking out ok.

I'll run through that air bleed procedure you've outlined tomorrow and see how I get on. Failing that I guess I've got to rule out compression and head gasket by doing a compression test myself.

Cheers, Clark

[Junosi]

Well I ran through the Haynes air bleed procedure. No joy. I disconnected one of the high pressure pipes to the top of an injector and observed what happened when I used the hand pump - nothing. I cranked the engine with the pipe off, fuel was coming out in small spurts - after that the hand pump caused more fuel to come out . I removed an injector and did same test (hand pump and cranking engine) but couldn't see anything coming out of the injector - I expected to see a small cloud from each *injection*. So I assume this either means I've got blocked injectors or my fuel injection pump isn't providing enough pressure.

Any easy way to test my fuel injection pumps pressure is sufficient ?

Cheers, Clark

[101RRS]

You are now getting beyond my limited expertise - if you have an injector pump issue I am surprised the ECU is not recording fault codes - do you in fact have a faulty ECU that is not telling the injection pump what to do.

This is all test book stuff - maybe it needs to go onto the computer so you can get some leads on where to start looking.

Garry

[Junosi]

That's the annoying part - I'd asked Melbourne Land Rover to diagnose my starting problems and I assumed they'd do just that - testbook etc. Instead they told me to replace my non-existant in tank fuel pump... Getting the vehicle in to MLR is a huge pain in the proverbial and towing dollars soon add up ($300 return trip). Hesistant about returning it there if they're just going to give me another run around answer that leads nowhere.

Been assuming ECU is ok so far - due to the engine check light not staying lit. Might try and find somewhere else that has testbook - think there's a place in Ballarat that has one and that's about as close as MLR is to me.

Cheers, Clark

[101RRS]

Someone listed here might be able to help you out - that is what this thread is all about.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/electronic-diagnostics/51189-members-diagnostic-equipment.html

Garry