7:30 Report - Banning 4WDs from Beaches

[vnx205]

It seems that tonight's 7:30 Report will have an item on the campaign to ban 4WDs from beaches.

[BJP98V8]

Tyre marks wash away......

And so will the campaign!!!!;):p

Thats my forsight! (and 2 cents!)

[subasurf]

hahaha, the diggers would be rolling in their graves if a law like this was to come into affect :p

[bblaze]

I feel the need for a vw with floatation tyres coming on. We used these on beaches for years before we could afford a 4x4
cheers
blaze

[Slunnie]

Not so sure.

Especially after my comments here:
Overlander 4WD :: View topic - Go easy on the beach driving (http://forums.overlander.com.au/viewtopic.php?p=825834#825834)

Turned up in a report (Pg27) here
http://www.coast2coast.org.au/PresentationPDFs/Carter.pdf

... which was presented in the 2008 Coast to Coast conference.


The organising committee:

Chair
Ms Patricia von Baumgarten (vonbaumgarten.patricia@saugov.sa.gov.au) Marine Adviser
South Australian Department for Environment and Heritage

Committee
Prof. Nick Harvey (nicholas.harvey@adelaide.edu.au) University of Adelaide
Beverley Clarke (beverley.clarke@flinders.edu.au) Flinders University
Linda McDowall (Linda-Marie.McDowell@epa.sa.gov.au) Environmental Protection Authority
Peter Pfennig (Peter.Pfennig@epa.sa.gov.au) Environmental Protection Authority
Arron Broome (Broom.Arron@saugov.sa.gov.au) ICAG Representative (South Australian Department for Environment and Heritage)
Tony Flaherty (tony.flaherty@adelaide.nrm.sa.gov.au) NRM, Adelaide
Alex Gaut (alex.gaut@ccsa.asn.au) Coast Care, South Australia
Linda Christensen (linda.christensen@adelaide.edu.au) University of Adelaide
Jenny Dorsett (jenny.dorsett@adelaide.edu.au) University of Adelaide

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Not so sure.

Especially after my comments here:
Overlander 4WD :: View topic - Go easy on the beach driving (http://forums.overlander.com.au/viewtopic.php?p=825834#825834)

Turned up in a report (Pg27) here
http://www.coast2coast.org.au/PresentationPDFs/Carter.pdf

... Thanks Slunny, interesting read that they do seem to have done an interesting survey, however they also presented some unsubstantiated claims in rather significant full page propaganda.

Take a look at page 26, we have a full page image of a waterbird and a heading asking the question about consequences of the reduction in beach invertebrates. That is followed by the statements/questions "fewer birds" "less fish". From what part of the research did these findings arise, were bird numbers studied? Were there any population studies of bony fish? The answer to those questions remains unanswered, or at least unstudied.

It may in fact be something completely different, as we know many fish in the intertidal zone as well as many wading birds are scavengers feeding of carrion of dead animals. The crushed-ations are merely another type of carrion and would be consumed by the scavengers. The same as carrion on the roads become food sources of other scavengers.

If we did study the avian and fish populations, the result may actualy be a change in the concentrations of the various populations of wading birds and fish rather than any change in the total numbers of birds and fish.

In research there are conclusions that can be drawn from the data collected and there are conclusions that can not be drawn from the data. So do not get confused by quasi-scientific survey findings until you know the methodology. Very little zoological research can be considered gold standard scientific experimentation, it is mostly survey based and often a little more accurate than the survey you are asked to undertake in the local supermarket.

Diana

[hook]

Look at what the oil spill at Brisbane has done to the beaches,
BUT they will not think about banning the Boats,
will they??????????????

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

As said earlier, " Tyre Marks Wash Away"
Cigarette butts , plastic drink bottles etc on the other hand.......

[BJP98V8]

Cigarette butts , plastic drink bottles etc on the other hand.......

True, very true. In saying that though, it is left to the individual to "keep Australia clean" there has been many campaigns but people still dont get the hint. I will always take my rubbish away with me, even if the bins provided in some populated areas are full. That is a little off point though.

If this campaign is recognised/passed or whatever it is they want to do, what will happen to the likes of Fraser Island????:question:

[seano87]

Not so sure.

Especially after my comments here:
Overlander 4WD :: View topic - Go easy on the beach driving (http://forums.overlander.com.au/viewtopic.php?p=825834#825834)

Turned up in a report (Pg27) here
http://www.coast2coast.org.au/PresentationPDFs/Carter.pdf

... which was presented in the 2008 Coast to Coast conference.


...

The report you have linked really really irks me. It contains some of the worst statistical information I've seen in a long time. It's that sort of propaganda designed to look good that people blindly accept and then spout themselves (...somewhat like Toyota advertisements come to think of it...)

The slide that really get me is #23...
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/seano87__/Image5.jpg%5B/IMG%5Dhttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/05/1022.jpg
1) their results show now true significant correlation (all the data would have to be within the lines)
2) the control is normalised to 0 crushed, 0 cars, in reality the number crushed at 0 cars is still going to be an actual value, whether it be 10 or 10,000 so a 20% increase could be 12 crushed (if it were 10 as the true control) or whatever...

I don't for one minute deny that people driving all over beaches is going to have some degree of impact, but so does every single action we do.

Seano

[Rudolf]

Not driving on beaches will not destroy the off road comunity.
We have been there and everything is even better now.
My advice is to get used to it. You will survive. We did!
With us there were even talks about banning 4x4's from mountains.
All of this is a long story (political) and it may still happen if someone messes up.
In short, all of this is to stop the one idiot destoying the environment and then blaming the rest of us.

My 1million Zim$ worth!!!:angrylock:

[Captain_Rightfoot]

It's a bit of a conundrum. If we stop everyone from going to these areas the areas may be better off. But if no one can ever enjoy them.. then what is the point?

I think they fail to realise that majority of 4wd owners are actually "greenies" who love the beauty of nature and appreciate it. They are careful and leave it in the condition they found it.

Without support from these people in the community green issues would really struggle to get anywhere.

[Slunnie]

There are so few beaches that can be driven on anyway. Very much the same line of thinking as the Greenies. Lock up all of the bushland........ only to be enjoyed by bushwalkers. :rolleyes: Apparently thats the only form of recreation anyway. Shame really, I mean bushwalkers really dont need that much land, so perhaps they could contract the bushland required to something around perhaps 1000 acres in each state where people bushwalk and they have the resources to maintain and then open the rest up for other recreational purposes.

[Hymie]

As far as I know there are no beaches that can be legally driven on in Victoria.
All of my 4WDing acquaintances head for Sth Australia or Qld for their beach driving trips.
If there was a decent beach open there would be a reduction in traffic on the non Victorian beaches and and economically significant stimulus to communities near any beach that was opened up in Victoria.

[willem]

Not so sure.

Especially after my comments here:
Overlander 4WD :: View topic - Go easy on the beach driving (http://forums.overlander.com.au/viewtopic.php?p=825834#825834)

Turned up in a report (Pg27) here
http://www.coast2coast.org.au/PresentationPDFs/Carter.pdf

... which was presented in the 2008 Coast to Coast conference.


The organising committee:

Chair
Ms Patricia von Baumgarten (vonbaumgarten.patricia@saugov.sa.gov.au) Marine Adviser
South Australian Department for Environment and Heritage

Committee
Prof. Nick Harvey (nicholas.harvey@adelaide.edu.au) University of Adelaide
Beverley Clarke (beverley.clarke@flinders.edu.au) Flinders University
Linda McDowall (Linda-Marie.McDowell@epa.sa.gov.au) Environmental Protection Authority
Peter Pfennig (Peter.Pfennig@epa.sa.gov.au) Environmental Protection Authority
Arron Broome (Broom.Arron@saugov.sa.gov.au) ICAG Representative (South Australian Department for Environment and Heritage)
Tony Flaherty (tony.flaherty@adelaide.nrm.sa.gov.au) NRM, Adelaide
Alex Gaut (alex.gaut@ccsa.asn.au) Coast Care, South Australia
Linda Christensen (linda.christensen@adelaide.edu.au) University of Adelaide
Jenny Dorsett (jenny.dorsett@adelaide.edu.au) University of Adelaide

This is good info. Thanks, Slunnie!

The way to deal with it is to get involved. When they call a public meeting, turn up. Everyone!

Like the meeting they called for the Wombat State Forest in central Victoria. These meetings have usually been a Greens benefit. Thirty or forty Greens people turn up and dominate the meeting and everything gets closed. But the Victorian 4WD clubs found out about it and they emailed all members and anyone else they could think of. Fifteen hundred of them turned up for the meeting! I went with a mate of mine from the Toyota Landcruiser Club. The school hall they had booked couldn't hold us all so they decided they would move it out on to the parade ground, and then tried to cancel the meeting because there was no sound system. But the 4WDers wouldn't have a bar of it and set up an impromptu sound system with their UHF radios.

Anyway the upshot of it is that there is a management committee representing a whole range of users, including 4WDers, beekeepers, CAMS (They run rallies through the forest), and of course the greens.

The last I heard was that the 4WDers had removed more than 80 dead car bodies from the Wombat, and done a large amount of mapping of weeds for the department so that they can then eliminate them. They probably had a great time doing it, too!

So get involved, but not on your own. Get everybody to come along. Pollies, and departments, recognise numbers. They know how to count, especially votes! So get everyone to turn up.

What do the greenies want? Just bushwalkers? Actually, they don't want anybody to use the forest. My sister's partner, who is a dyed in the wool greenie, tells me that the bush should be left as wilderness, with absolutely no access at all! to anyone. I said, "Cliff, that makes the bush bloody useless!" That didn't faze him at all. To greenies, people don't matter, the bush is what counts.

That's a problem on the Tiwi Islands at the moment. The senate enquiry into the Great Southern plantation business met here at Tiwi College last week. The greenies - as led by Bob Brown - want the plantation closed and the land allowed to be returned to its native state. The fact that an already struggling economy on the Tiwi Islands would be even more difficult doesn't seem to be of importance.

I could go on, but I won't, because I have other things to do. But its group action that counts. Get everyone you know to turn up to meetings. Swamp them with numbers. Then you'll get heard. Organise a representative leadership that is capable of articulating your case. I think the Wombat group leader was a church pastor from Melbourne who did an excellent job.

Willem

[DiscoMick]

Interesting information. Lots of unanswered questions in that very unscientific report. Can't let the facts get in the way of a good push to lock up an area.