So the PUMA goes back to the garage again tomorrow

[Bush65]

Good news D.B., fingers crossed that it will all be good now.

[slt]

Excellent outcome! All the best!

[dullbird]

I was always taught, when running in, to not maintain the same engine speed for long periods. (as well as not racing or straining the motor)Whatever, I am sure you'll treat your renewed defender with the respect it deserves.

Congrats on finally getting a reasonable solution....hope it all goes well.

yeah we realised your not supposed to stress the engine and go over certain speeds but had never heard of the don't maintain same speed for long periods.....I guess that's probably common knowledge. as we have only ever own one other new car didn't know that so thought others may not of known that.

Oh Dave....I would dare say they have already gone sa they have had the car a week but we don't have access to the parts anyway. why whats your thoughts......the clutch spring problem in the new landrovers has been known for a while there are a few members that have had the clutch changes on here.

[Blknight.aus]

theres 3 springs involved in your average clutch.

the spring failure can be a symptom of the problem. Additional symptoms count as useful for diagnostics, Diagnosing a problem is the biggest hassle in solving it.

I hate the unsolved problems that get fixed with bulk part swap.

[dullbird]

it has been suggested that we have possibly fallen under the sticking oil jet of the early 07 engines which had a recall under the vin range that my car fell in.......however the sticking oil jet was an audible knock on start up...ours was not on start up but a death rattle further down the road....it may still be that its just the way the bulletin was worded we never really fell in to those symptom categories..we kind of did but we kind of didn't.

I did ask if anyone would here the outcome from it going back to the UK and he said no they never tell us!

I think the clutch may of been a separate issue as the rattle was there long before the clutch on occasions started knocking

[Blknight.aus]

I was hoping to score some pics of the clutch failure...

If the clutch has taken out the dampning springs or sheared the finger pivots on the pressure plate it (in conjunction with your other symptoms) torque pulse issues which falls in with early injection and prolonged knocking issues.

The electronic diesels have knock control on them and Im just mulling around and idea about why your engines doing what it was doing.

[Sleepy]

had never heard of the don't maintain same speed for long periods.

Yes, info from "Sleepy's old man" who did his apprenticeship back in the 50's. Not sure if this applies to newer technology engines. I'm sure someone more recent could comment.

Just thought on the long trip to Melb, it may be worth mixing it up a bit – 100kmh then 110 then 95 then 100 etc etc...

I think it relates to even wear – Could well be an old wives( mechanics?) tale.

[dullbird]

Yes, info from "Sleepy's old man" who did his apprenticeship back in the 50's. Not sure if this applies to newer technology engines. I'm sure someone more recent could comment.

Just thought on the long trip to Melb,
it may be worth mixing it up a bit – 100kmh then 110 then 95 then 100 etc etc...

I think it relates to even wear – Could well be an old wives( mechanics?) tale.

this is exactly what they told us to do...that's why I wrote it in the original post as I had never heard this before

[slt]

Yes, info from "Sleepy's old man" who did his apprenticeship back in the 50's. Not sure if this applies to newer technology engines. I'm sure someone more recent could comment.

Just thought on the long trip to Melb, it may be worth mixing it up a bit – 100kmh then 110 then 95 then 100 etc etc...

I think it relates to even wear – Could well be an old wives( mechanics?) tale.

My last car was a 2005 Subaru Outback, and the above reflects the run-in instructions I received.

[PAT303]

Just to throw a spanner in the works,Owen Rumble who is the oldest LR mechanic in Australia told me not to run my Tdi in,just drive it.He has always maintained that running in an engine just makes it lazy and just drive around just like any other vehicle and it will do it's own thing,after doing 420,000k's and not running my engine in I agree with him.Good to hear it's all gone well for you Dullbird,enjoy the ride. Pat

[Blknight.aus]

Im a big fan of using motorways to run in engines.


a brief bit of city cycle then 20 minutes or so up on the motorway, a brief turn around in city cycle traffic and then back the other way on the motorway.


the best example near me right now is the run from ipswich to toowoomba.

if you hit that and pull off at every major turn off then back on after a quick sight see back on and keep on going.

[TimNZ]

Thats great news Ian and DB!!! Hopefully now you can start enjoying the car :D

As for the clutch, I have had 2 in my 110 now, both for the same reason. The anti-rattle springs have come loose, (1-2mm of free play in the radial direction), causing the clutch to rattle. There is a 3rd revision of clutch out now, which Ian and DB's car will have also. Apart from the loose springs there was no other signs of any damage to either of my clutches, the friction plate, clutch plate and flywheel surface all looked like new, even after 40,000kms (of my driving).

Congrats again! :D

Tim

[LandyAndy]

Hi Lou
Just read your 27 page book:eek::eek::eek:
Hope they have sorted it out.
A good tip for running in.On big hills use as higher gear as possible and make the engine struggle under full throttle,it helps bed the rings in correctly.
GOODLUCK
Andrew

[dullbird]

Hi Lou
Just read your 27 page book:eek::eek::eek:
Hope they have sorted it out.

A good tip for running in.On big hills use as higher gear as possible and make the engine struggle under full throttle,it helps bed the rings in correctly.
GOODLUCK
Andrew

:eek: interesting everything we have heard and read is to not rag the engine and labour it hard

[muddymech]

Just to throw a spanner in the works,Owen Rumble who is the oldest LR mechanic in Australia told me not to run my Tdi in,just drive it.He has always maintained that running in an engine just makes it lazy and just drive around just like any other vehicle and it will do it's own thing,after doing 420,000k's and not running my engine in I agree with him.Good to hear it's all gone well for you Dullbird,enjoy the ride. Pat


i have also heard that for tdi. we have had our share of problems so it will be treated gently for first 1000km than back to normal use.
ian

[justinc]

Hear hear!

Don't baby it, just no lugging in high gears and no over revving. Drive it normally and avoid idling it for long, especially when hot!
Enjoyyyy

JC

[Allan]

May be a dumb question, to ****ed to read all replys (electrition at house today cost me $900, wifes Jag $1600 for shocks AND her lap top died another $600 minimum) all in one day, But did you get the new patch along with your new engine. If not why not ? Is this the cure. Sorey if this sounds like an argumentitive thread verry bad day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Allan

[dullbird]

yes new patch on the engine also

[Allan]

Have you noted any change in its running. I had the strange knock limp mode but the dealer swapped I cant remember what and since have had no problem. That noted the morning temps hare, at times have been been lower than when I had the Knock. I do think since they changed the I cant remember, Its got less grunt. I will get the patch next month at service because, mutch to the horrer of some people, I am happy with my Puma, unhappy with electricians:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[Tombie]

I prefer my method for the performance cars we built...

1) Break in cam as per instructions...
2) Check timing, fuelling etc..
3a) Throw vehicle on dyno and thump it around for 60 minutes...

Or

3b) Take vehicle out and do a monsterous burnout, revving engine through different rev points all the time...


Never had an issue and those engines pumped :cool:

[Allan]

Used to do this with WRX STI's but multi novas and impound yards cause old men to buy LandRovers

[Captain_Rightfoot]

That's great DB.. Hopefully it's all good for you now . :)

[Scallops]

Have you noted any change in its running. I had the strange knock limp mode but the dealer swapped I cant remember what and since have had no problem. That noted the morning temps hare, at times have been been lower than when I had the Knock. I do think since they changed the I cant remember, Its got less grunt. I will get the patch next month at service because, mutch to the horrer of some people, I am happy with my Puma, unhappy with electricians:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

The patch seems to provide a heap of extra mid range grunt - and is quieter on cold startups.

[solmanic]

Good to hear the dealer is now treating you well and let's cross everything that your vehicle is all sorted.

Why not take a scenic trip to Melbourne via the Snowys or something? Plenty of variable speed driving.

Incidentally, the manual's directions regarding running-in are interesting. The technique they use at the LR factory when each vehicle is completed is they put it on a rolling road and flog the guts out of it for a couple of minutes. Then they jam on the brakes and the vehicles lurch and jump around like they're about to break their shackles. Then they drive them out and stick them in the holding yards.

[spudboy]

... they put it on a rolling road and flog the guts out of it for a couple of minutes. Then they jam on the brakes and the vehicles lurch and jump around like they're about to break their shackles.

Sounds like a perfect job for a teenager!

Glad to hear it's sorted at last.

[one_iota]

we have the revised clutch fitted now as they said all the springs were loose in the old clutch

Lou

When I drove yours I noticed that the clutch engaged high in the pedal travel compared with mine. Has this changed with the new clutch.


Good that the sky is now blue.

[dullbird]

Lou

When I drove yours I noticed that the clutch engaged high in the pedal travel compared with mine. Has this changed with the new clutch.


Good that the sky is now blue.

Hi Mahn

Ian seems to think it is lower......I don't know whether you guys had yours changed with the clutch or not but we also got a new slave cylinder

[PAT303]

I'm a bit concerned with sythetic oils as regards to new engines also,the last thing a new engine needs is friction reducing oils.Just drive it and enjoy it.The puma might have less performance when cold because it is running retard timing to stop the knock. Pat

[dullbird]

I'm a bit concerned with sythetic oils as regards to new engines also,the last thing a new engine needs is friction reducing oils.Just drive it and enjoy it.The puma might have less performance when cold because it is running retard timing to stop the knock. Pat

to be honest pat it will be interesting to see...because I think the car towards the end lost a lot of performance full stop...it just didn't seem to pull in third like it used to. So once we have worked and loosened stuff up it will be interesting to see whether we notice any improvement

[Bush65]

Years ago when I raced motorcycles and the engine had cast iron piston rings, they could be run in quickly by alternating power on for a short time up a hill, then right off down hill.

The theory was, with power on the higher cylinder pressure pushes the compression rings out to the cylinder bore harder, then power off, the throttle is closed and there is vacuum in the cylinder which helps with getting lubricating oil to the upper surfaces of the cylinder and rings.

But these days hard chromed piston rings and cylinder bores are often used in engine and they take a very log time if ever to 'wear-in' (especially with friction reducing oil additives).

In these cases it is mainly the cam lobes/tappets and crank bearings that are being run in. And I would follow the light power on, followed by power right off (so oil film thickness in the bearing can build up).

[spudfan]

Congratulations on your positive outcome, Dullbird. Any idea what oil is in your engine. I was always told that an engine must be run in on mineral oil. Synthetic is a no-no. Mineral oil gives it it's all important initial coating which synthetic cannot do. Synthetic-if specified- can be used for subsequent oil changes. There is a comprehensive, and interesting, chapter on oils and lubricants for Land Rovers in Tom Sheppard's Vehicle Dependent Expeditions. Sheppard gives this advice on running in your engine. A terrific read whether you are expeditioning or just reading about it like me! Many happy miles with your rejuvenated Defender.

[dullbird]

I am happy for you, have a nice and safe trip and keep it up to 95kph.
Now that you are forced to look after the engine (speed) would be nice to keep a record of the fuel used.

So on the way down 11.5/100 that was varying speed between 80/100

On the way home with trailer on tow 13.1/100 varying speed between 100/110


Engine sounds totally different from ours......its quieter on long runs much much quieter and doesn't sound like a train, in the slow stuff it got a much much deeper don't really know how to describe it other than a growl. much smoother.

[Scallops]

Everytime I see a new reply in this thread, I pray it will be good news - and that nothing bad has happened again! :eek:

I'm glad the new engine is a goer - I reckon you're sorted now, which is great. :)

[scarry]

Congratulations on your positive outcome, Dullbird. Any idea what oil is in your engine. I was always told that an engine must be run in on mineral oil. Synthetic is a no-no. Mineral oil gives it it's all important initial coating which synthetic cannot do. Synthetic-if specified- can be used for subsequent oil changes. There is a comprehensive, and interesting, chapter on oils and lubricants for Land Rovers in Tom Sheppard's Vehicle Dependent Expeditions. Sheppard gives this advice on running in your engine. A terrific read whether you are expeditioning or just reading about it like me! Many happy miles with your rejuvenated Defender.

All D2 TD5's came from factory with synthetic engine oil,& i presume the fender TD5's did as well.
I checked the refractive index on the sons Puma's oil which has not yet had its first oil change & it appears to be synthetic oil,as the reading is almost identicle to the synthetic oil in my D2,but completely different from the mineral oil in one of my work vans.


Dulbird,good to hear of the outcome,hope you get many years of trouble free Puma driving:p:):)

I have always found LR very helpful when it comes to warranty work

[spudboy]

I have always found LR very helpful when it comes to warranty work

I've found them to be extremely helpful once they have decided you do really have a problem. Trying to convince them there is a problem is sometimes the hardest part.

My L322 had to go back 3 times for a small issue with the key, and they dicked around endlessly trying to decide what they'd do to remedy it. However, once they made up their minds to fix it, it was brilliant - couldn't fault them.