Discovery 3 LED trailer lights

[scains]

I am new to the Forum, so maybe this matter has already been discussed, but I cannot find a thread
I understand that when a caravan is connected to a Disco 3, it won't detect the connection if the trailer has LED tail and blinker lights.
There are some connections on the market which claim to handle this, one called a "LED Adaptor" from 4X4 Equip, and another called a PulseBusta from LAB Electronics
Has anyone experience and/or recommendations about this?

[bobzed57]

I built one from advice on this forum and others. Cost me about $50 in parts. I built mine into the trailer, so I'm sort of snookered if I want to tow something else with LEDs.

If you're handy with a soldering iron and basic electricity you can do it.

Cheers

[130man]

HI Scains, I recently replaced my trailer lights with LED ones. The trailer is towed by a 2000 MY Defender 130 and I have had no problems. Are you sure there will be an issue? Cheers, 130man.

[Scouse]

The unit from LAB Electronics is one of the originals & designed/built by a LR guru.

[CaverD3]

HI Scains, I recently replaced my trailer lights with LED ones. The trailer is towed by a 2000 MY Defender 130 and I have had no problems. Are you sure there will be an issue? Cheers, 130man.

Only an issue with the D3.

[Narangga]

Only an issue with the D3.

Unless you have a D2 ;)

[CaverD3]

:o
Didn't know the D2 had the flashing lights problem too.

Also affects the RRS and FFRR. Not sure about the new FL2.

[Narangga]

:o
Didn't know the D2 had the flashing lights problem too.

Also affects the RRS and FFRR. Not sure about the new FL2.

My apologies. Replied in haste and then realised D3 has a different issue to the D2 & others where the lack of a resistance from the LED means the trailer light on the dash does not flash.

The PulseShunt or PulseBuster sounds the go for you.

[scains]

Thanks all
It looks as if I can do it if I am smart enough. Otherwise people seem to favour, or be more familiar with, the LAB Electronics one
Stephen

[tochse]

Can you send me a copy of the circuit you used to make your own LED Adaptor

[Colin Pedersen]

Had the same issue with a LED fitted Trailer. It’s the on board computer pulsing to see if a trailer is present. Unfortunately the LED’s don’t provide sufficient resistance for the computer to acknowledge their presence. Apparently a problem in trucks, motor cycles and many European vehicles.
Search the web for a device called an LR12 which is a 12V load resistor – I found some at a trailer / caravan specialist (They have the problem all the time) and fitted these in line with a 12V relay for each indicator circuit.
Cost about $50 for all the gear and an hour in the shed. All fixed. (Maybe not as neat as the manufactured version but works well)

[BennyH]

Colin,
Thinking of doing the same with my D3. Did this allow the car to recognise the trailer? So far I have tried just the resistors and it does not seem to even allow the car to recognise. Obviously I still have the pulsing, which I imagine the relays will get ride of (getting them in next week!) Wondering why the car will not see them with the resistors though?
Do you have a quick diagram or method of wiring, or is it is asimple as throwing them in series in the indicator lines on the trailer?

[slug_burner]

Colin,
Thinking of doing the same with my D3. Did this allow the car to recognise the trailer? So far I have tried just the resistors and it does not seem to even allow the car to recognise. Obviously I still have the pulsing, which I imagine the relays will get ride of (getting them in next week!) Wondering why the car will not see them with the resistors though?
Do you have a quick diagram or method of wiring, or is it is asimple as throwing them in series in the indicator lines on the trailer?

you need to put the resistors in parallel. LEDs pull very little current, you need to get more current flowing to have the car recognise the trailer is there. It partly defeats the beauty of LEDs, low power!

[harlie]

I’ve made a little box that solves this issue for the Range Rover, it’s now permanently mounted on the camper. I’m about to make another box but would first like to know if my design also works with the D3/D4/RRS. I have a suspicion that they are slightly different…

Anyone in the Brisbane area interested in testing with their D3/4/RRS? If it’s good I’m happy to post the schematics – I don’t want to give it out untested.

[djhampson]

I made a box up with 2 relays. The pulse to check the lights isn't enough to operate the relays. A switch means I can bypass my circuit and use non-LED trailer lights as per normal.

When my circuit is enabled the trailer detection light comes on so I assume the car knows that there is a trailer attached.

[Colin Pedersen]

Hi all,
Here’s a diagram of the basic wiring to stop the pulsing on a LED trailer.
Simple and easy to make using either crimp connectors, soldering or fitting into a transportable box if needed.

[sniegy]

Hi Colin,
Just questioning the color combination on the PDF that was supplied as it states : -
Trailer Wiring Colors.

1 Tail, Clearance - Brown
2 Left Hand Turn - Yellow
3 Right Hand Turn - Green
4 Stop - Red
5 Electric Brakes - Blue
6 Earth - White

Do you mean in the terminals of the plug? If so this is for a 6 pin Plug?
I havent seen one of these for many years.

If it is for a Std Australian 7 Pin plug which is the most common then the explanation needs to be clarified.

Australian Standards States:- (7 Pin Std) is

1 Left - Yellow
2 Aux/Reverse - Black
3 Earth - White
4 Right - Green
5 ETBrake - Blue
6 Stop - Red
7 Tail, Clearance - Brown.

Just wanting to clarify before someone goes & wires something without the knowledge of different plugs.

Cheers :D

[Colin Pedersen]

My Apologies, your right. I was trying to not make a reference to any specific plug type. The universal colours for Left / Right / Ground are standard. The best reference i’ve found to any particular type of trailer plug is as follows;

trailer wiring diagram (http://www.campertrailers.org/trailer_wiring_diagram.htm)

I would hope anyone attempting to make this wiring loom up would take the time to do a quick check across the lights with a multimeter.....I have come across an older trailer where the colours were all wrong anyway!

Hope this as assisted,

[harlie]

Thanks Colin. If that’s all good for the D3 I’ve passed.

Only basic difference I have done is the use of a change over relay - with the resistor between pin 87a and earth. This way the resistor only carries current (heat) while the light is NOT lit. I did this because I was concerned about having the resistor carry the full 12v for extended periods like when the headlights are on – the L322 pulses all 4 lines (parkers and brake lights as well as indicators) – so not an issue for the D3/4. It does however allow the trailer module to detect a failed LED module because the resistor is out of circuit.

For those interested in circuit boards a 40 cent (15ohm 5watt) ceramic resistor and $6 (PCB mount) relay from Jaycar is all that’s needed for each circuit. Add a $6 blank board and $10 box and its a pretty cheap solution.

[Brewn]

Hi harlie, Colin Pederson,

Thanks for the wiring diagrams and information into stopping the pulsing for Led lights on trailers.

I only know enough about electronic to get myself into trouble so harlie could you please do a wiring diagram for your solution?

Dose it have to be wire to the trailer or can it be wire before the plug on the disco?
Cheers

[harlie]

If you have a D3 then the diagram Colin posted in post #16 is more suited than mine for the L322 RR.

Just to add to it – for installation in the van/trailer;
Green OR Yellow wire from plug goes to pin 30 AND pin 85 on relay.
Earth (white) goes to pin 86 on relay.
Green OR Yellow wire going to tail lights goes on Pin 87 on relay
Resistor crosses between Pins 85 and 86.

You can install this in the car, it would mean that 1 box could be used for multiple trailers, but it would need a switch (or the car will think it has a trailer all the time) and you loose the testing function for the trailer lights – with the box on the trailer it is still testing the plugs, and if you change the output to pin 87a from 87 (change over relay only) it will still test the light itself…

[dubv]

I made a box up with 2 relays. The pulse to check the lights isn't enough to operate the relays. A switch means I can bypass my circuit and use non-LED trailer lights as per normal.

When my circuit is enabled the trailer detection light comes on so I assume the car knows that there is a trailer attached.

I have made an in-line system between my vw and the trailer which uses resistors (one each in parallel with each of the blinkers, tail and stop lights) which works fine. It has a male plug on one end and female on the other and it connects bewteen the car and any trailer. The four resistors are screwed onto a short piece of aluminium pipe which is the common earth. Looks a bit like a bomb. If I hook up a trailer with incandescent lights i don't connect the extra load.
Can you explain why you need the relays?

[djhampson]

I have made an in-line system between my vw and the trailer which uses resistors (one each in parallel with each of the blinkers, tail and stop lights) which works fine. It has a male plug on one end and female on the other and it connects bewteen the car and any trailer. The four resistors are screwed onto a short piece of aluminium pipe which is the common earth. Looks a bit like a bomb. If I hook up a trailer with incandescent lights i don't connect the extra load.
Can you explain why you need the relays?

I didn't need the relays... I just had them available and didn't have any resistors. And I didn't think to use resistors :)

[dubv]

I didn't need the relays... I just had them available and didn't have any resistors. And I didn't think to use resistors :)
Thanks. More ways of killing a kat...

[LGM]

Read some posts last year re the LED trailer lights issue.

When I picked up my D4 (Sep11) and got home I hooked up to my trailers and caravan all fitted with LED lights. The trailer and caravan lights operated and did not pulse (I guess LR fixed that bit of the problem) but the car did not recognise the trailer or van was attached. This was a pain in the butt as the park sensors would squawk, no trailer indication on the dash and I don't think the trailer assist program would operate (not that I could tell).

A search of the web indicated that the problem with LED's was not unique to LR's but to most european makes. Anyhow I tracked down a crowd from Melbourne called Linear Electronic Design who make a little 'gizmo' that hooks into the car wiring and can be switched on / off depending on what lighting is fitted to the item you are towing. I purchased the system (a small alloy box and wires with a switch) $265 delivered.

www (http://www.linearelectronicdesign.com)

Yep, not cheap, but I only need the one system to cater for all my towed kit and given that someone has put in the time and effort they need to make a return and besides my electrical capability is 'limited'! :confused:

The system was easy to install and it works a treat. It allows me to tow whatever I need with no fuss and all systems working. All I have to do is turn it on if the towed item is equipped with LED lighting. The car then recognises that a 'trailer' is attached the indicator on the dash operates, the park sensors deactivate and (I assume) the trailer assist program is working. All that is visable inside the car near the rear tailgate is a small rocker switch.

[dubv]

sorry double post. haven't quite got the idea of deleting

[Alan43]

Can you send me a copy of the circuit you used to make your own LED Adaptor
Could you please supply a circuit for the LED adaptor for my use?

[Alan43]

Are you able to give me contact details for linear electronics as I cannot find them with google.
Alan43 Brisbane

[sniegy]

Alan, this is the gents website & contact email address, i also have one in my D4 fitted, it is a great unit.

Cheers.

www (http://www.linearelectronicdesign.com/)

[bbyer]

Could you please supply a circuit for the LED adaptor for my use? I used the wiring drawing in post #16 of this thread to make up a LED adapter box for the NAS 7 blade round plug we use here.

It works OK, (green trailer light on dash flashes properly as well), but I decided that one would be probably better to purchase an adapter already built. As below, mine is kind of heavy, bulky, and it was more than a few pennies to purchase the parts. I used a pair of 6 ohm 50 watt aluminum cased resistors and for the can, a near explosion proof duplex box to provide a weather resistant heat sink - they are heavy however.

I also decided while the Hella relays I purchased appear to work OK, that I probably should have purchased relays with internal anti-spiking resistors.

I note that our air compressor relay R7 has a built in 560 ohm resistor mounted internally across the relay coil to soak up voltage spikes when the relay opens. The purpose of the anti-spike resistor is to protect vehicle circuits from voltage spikes due to the make and break of the relay. I kind of think this was not Land Rover overkill but necessary; hence probably the signal light adapter should use that design of relay as well.

I presume that the pre built ones have that sort of concern under control.

[Graeme]

I also decided while the Hella relays I purchased appear to work OK, that I probably should have purchased relays with internal anti-spiking resistors.

I note that our air compressor relay R7 has a built in 560 ohm resistor mounted internally across the relay coil to soak up voltage spikes when the relay opens. The purpose of the anti-spike resistor is to protect vehicle circuits from voltage spikes due to the make and break of the relay.A resistor will not prevent the reverse EMF generated by a coil when the current is interrupted from affecting electronic components at the supply source - it requires a diode correctly connected across the coil. A diode passes current in 1 direction only whereas a resistor passes current in both directions, albeit with some resistance!

[bbyer]

A resistor will not prevent the reverse EMF generated by a coil when the current is interrupted from affecting electronic components at the supply source - it requires a diode correctly connected across the coil. A diode passes current in 1 direction only whereas a resistor passes current in both directions, albeit with some resistance! Yes, that is correct, the diode is the most effective design to totally eliminate the reverse EMF. As in all things automotive, less than ideal solutions are often implemented in the name of cost or long term effectiveness.

Not too much goes wrong over time with a resistor and it appears that the effectiveness of the resistor depends upon the resistor chosen. In the case of the original 70 amp air compressor relay R7, part # YWB500040, per the pdf below, the chosen resistor is 560 ohms in parallel with the 90 ohm coil to yield a total Resistance of about 78 ohms, + or - 8 ohms.

I was not able to find any data on the new replacement 70 amp relay, part number YWB500220, but there is some indication the 560 ohm parallel resistor is now fairly common in these type of relay designs.

This then brings to mind an interesting question. Does the nominal 6 ohm 50 watt load resistor in the LED adaptor effectively provide EMF suppression and hence a plain relay is OK? The answer may be yes.

A second question also arises. If one only used the resistor style relays, would the internal resistor be big enough to soak up the milliamp signals sent down the signal light wires by the computers to effectively arrest the "test blinking" of the indicators; also is the resistor big enough to fool the electronics into cancelling the backup sensors and the like? In this case, probably the answer is no.

[Graeme]

I wasn't aware that resistors are now being used but it appears that 560 ohms must be a value that is low enough to allow sufficient reverse current flow to prevent damage to the power source components yet not so low as to impose an unnecessary current draw when the relay is operated. A distinct advantage of a resistor over a diode is that no polarity for the coil has to be observed because current flows in either direction, which I expect is the reason for the change from a diode rather than cost or longevity.

A resistor of lower value than 560 ohms will have an increased ability to allow reverse current to flow so the 6 ohm resistor in the LED flash canceller circuit will indeed provide the necessary protection.

Edit: The flashing is prevented because the relays don't operate in the very short time the flash power is supplied, but the omission of the 6 ohm resistors will cause the electronics to think no trailer is attached because the relay doesn't draw enough current to be seen as an incandescant globe.

[Davehoos]

I hope that the resister in a box was cast alloy.the resisters i fitted have a warning that they can operate at 140Cel.

I burnt a finger on one.I tryed to use one on a flasher timer control and not thinking mounted to the floor inside the dash.

Resister protected relay coils--not realy intended to protect electronics from spikes-used with systems like air conditioning clutch coil and fan motors that use mechacical contact switches that may give irratic switching that may create spike surges.

some relays have diode[zenor??] acros the contact [or coil]? -but that wont earth the spike..these are a pain when you guess the wrong pin layout when trying to work out the circuit set up due to the feed back nature of diode.comon on radiator fan control systems.

[Talby]

Hi Guys,

I fitted the linear electronic design module and it worked perfectly, used the in car mount version which has the switch to turn the unit on when towing (a trailer with led's) which disables the reverse sensors and allows the rest of the system to work correctly Then turn off when not towing to allow reverse sensors to operate again. You only need to connect a wire to each blinker (yellow & green) cable in the rear left compartment where the tongue is stored and the earth which has a connector already fitted ready to use a existing earth in the rear compartment, fitted the switch in the underside of the left rear indent side cover, then turn off when not towing. I could fit one in under 15 minutes very neat and solved all the problems. Did cost $265 but worked a treat and was delivered the next day. Thanks LG Fossicker for the info previously in this post.

[Graeme]

some relays have diode[zenor??] acros the contact [or coil]? -but that wont earth the spike..these are a pain when you guess the wrong pin layout when trying to work out the circuit set up due to the feed back nature of diode.comon on radiator fan control systems.Not a zener diode, just a switching diode. The diode is used to provide a path for the reverse EMF that has less resistance than the path back through the electronic switching component. Zener diodes don't conduct until their trigger voltage is reached which then provides a limit for over-voltage situations. The diodes and resistors have nothing to do with any voltage spikes across the contacts that can occur when a coil or heavy current load is switched by the contacts, where a capacitor is often used to absorb the charge to prevent arcing.

[bbyer]

I hope that the resister in a box was cast alloy.the resisters i fitted have a warning that they can operate at 140Cel.

I burnt a finger on one.I tried to use one on a flasher timer control and not thinking mounted to the floor inside the dash. Yes the load resistors can get hot, hence I used what is called here an FS box. It is not very delicate or cheap to purchase either; made of sand cast aluminum and with or without the cover can be driven over with no damage to the box but maybe to the tyre. This is another reason I tend to think that the pre-made units are not that bad an alternative.

I am starting to think that for our purposes, a smaller load resistor might be OK - say the 21 watt variety as we are only trying to duplicate a single 21 watt filament in a P21 bulb. Using a pair of the smaller resistors should reduce the current draw and hence the heat buildup to be dissipated.
LED Load Resistor - Products - Narva (http://www.narva.com.au/products/browse/led-load-resistor)

I am inclined to think the 50 watt ones are to duplicate front and rear signal bulbs operating at the same time on the same side.

[Graeme]

The resistor wattage is how much power they will withstand, not draw. The resistance value determines how much current will be drawn (V=IR & P=VI). At a nominal 12V a globe that consumes 21W of power draws 1.75A which means that it has a resistance of approx 6 ohms. The 50W resistor can dissipate 50W of power so really only a 25W 6 ohm resistor is needed but it will get a lot hotter because it cannot dissipate the heat so readily and will be working near its rated maximum power.

Edit: One cannot be sure whether the Narva specs are referring to a heat dissipation capacity of 21W or to replace a 21W globe as its 8 ohms resistance equates to 18W at 12V but when added to a LED light cluster might total 21W as per an incandescent globe. 8 ohms will only draw 1.5A at 12V so less heat will be produced.

Another edit: The Narva resistors must be referring to simulating a 21W globe rather than a statement of their power dissipation capacity as they are also marked as 12V and voltage is not a characteristic of a resistor.

[bbyer]

I appreciate that clarification, particularly the comments re the Narva resistors. I have been comparing various load resistor advertising and was getting even more confused.

In short, a resistor is not an incandescent light bulb that the more the watts, the more current draw and hence more heat. (I did actually know that but was starting to question it.) A resistor is more like a water tap - you can have a lake behind it but only so much water will flow thru it.

Hence regardless of wattage rating, a load resistor as long as they are around 6 ohms across 12 volts will approximately simulate a single 21 watt filament. The resistors ability to dissipate the heat generated will be better the larger the rating. That makes sense. Thanks.

[bbyer]

I appreciate that clarification, particularly the comments re the Narva resistors. I have been comparing various load resistor advertising and was getting even more confused.

In short, a resistor is not an incandescent light bulb that the more the watts, the more current draw and hence more heat. (I did actually know that but was starting to question it.) A resistor is more like a water tap - you can have a lake behind it but only so much water will flow thru it.

Hence regardless of wattage rating, a load resistor as long as they are around 6 ohms across 12 volts will approximately simulate a single 21 watt filament. The resistors ability to dissipate the heat generated will be better the larger the rating. That makes sense. Thanks.

[Graeme]

Got it! :BigThumb:

[discotwinturbo]

Hi Guys,

I fitted the linear electronic design module and it worked perfectly, used the in car mount version which has the switch to turn the unit on when towing (a trailer with led's) which disables the reverse sensors and allows the rest of the system to work correctly Then turn off when not towing to allow reverse sensors to operate again. You only need to connect a wire to each blinker (yellow & green) cable in the rear left compartment where the tongue is stored and the earth which has a connector already fitted ready to use a existing earth in the rear compartment, fitted the switch in the underside of the left rear indent side cover, then turn off when not towing. I could fit one in under 15 minutes very neat and solved all the problems. Did cost $265 but worked a treat and was delivered the next day. Thanks LG Fossicker for the info previously in this post.

I ordered his one yesterday for the same reason you mention. My trailer has the box, but it appears from talking to linear electronics they are vehicle specific. The current one worked perfectly on my touareg but parking sensors don't deactivate on the D4. This should fix it.

[misheemee]

I used my D4 to tow a Jayco Eagle caravan (first time towing anything) and the lights appeared to work on the trailer but the D4 didn't recognise it and the reverse sensor would engage when in reverse. I also had an issue when turning my headlights on as the electronic brakes on the trailer would engage. I used an adaptor for a 7 pin round to 7 pin flat. Do I have multiple issues of needing a LED module and electronic brake module?

[outasight]

I used my D4 to tow a Jayco Eagle caravan (first time towing anything) and the lights appeared to work on the trailer but the D4 didn't recognise it and the reverse sensor would engage when in reverse. I also had an issue when turning my headlights on as the electronic brakes on the trailer would engage. I used an adaptor for a 7 pin round to 7 pin flat. Do I have multiple issues of needing a LED module and electronic brake module?

Hi there,

Have you got an electric brake controller fitted to the D4 & who fit it?

If you look at Sniegy's excellent "how to" on wiring electric brakes on a D4 you will see the light circuit in the car goes to TWO pins!
See the first photo in Sniegy's thread here ... http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/97935-d4-electric-trailer-brakes.html

This is obviously what is happening to you. And yes, you have multiple issues. LED trailer lights are well covered in this section too!

Regards,

Les.

[misheemee]

Hi there,

Have you got an electric brake controller fitted to the D4 & who fit it?

If you look at Sniegy's excellent "how to" on wiring electric brakes on a D4 you will see the light circuit in the car goes to TWO pins!
See the first photo in Sniegy's thread here ... http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/97935-d4-electric-trailer-brakes.html

This is obviously what is happening to you. And yes, you have multiple issues. LED trailer lights are well covered in this section too!

Regards,

Les.
No EB module installed. Didn't know what that was until watching an episode of Pat Callinan's 4X4 show. I have been through this forum and lots of info on this, great stuff. Looks like the LED module adaptor like the PulseBusta from LAB Electronics mentioned in this thread may be the way to go. I would like to think that it would fix the trailer brakes locking with headlights on.

[outasight]

No EB module installed. Didn't know what that was until watching an episode of Pat Callinan's 4X4 show. I have been through this forum and lots of info on this, great stuff. Looks like the LED module adaptor like the PulseBusta from LAB Electronics mentioned in this thread may be the way to go. I would like to think that it would fix the trailer brakes locking with headlights on.

No it will not fix the brakes problem! You have TWO problems.

You will still need a solution anyway for the LED problems, but you ALSO need an Electric Brake controller fitted(legally, for insurance, and just plain safety!).
Doing the wiring for the brake controller by following that thread I linked above(cruicaly cutting that wire in the first photo) WILL fix the brakes activating with the lights.

Regards,

Les.

[misheemee]

Got it, both it is, thanks

[aew849]

I should have read these threads earlier.

Dot point version...bought caravan, towed with Deefer 130. Van lights filled with water and rusted out. Smart fellow :( fits LED to van. No problems.

Buys Disco3 and 6 months later has Redarc brake controller fitted. Cue the sensing light issue...not fixed with parallel resistors....also find van brakes lock on when headlights turned on!!!

Have Disco whilst on holidays so brakes work. Back home and converting van back to incandescents as cheaper operation ( KISS principle ).

Like I said, should have read the forum earlier.


aew849

[mike7]

Hi Misheeme,

I had exactly the same problem towing a jayco, the dealer did not install the brake controller correctly anw when the lights were turned on the brakes were being applied at max, the tekonsha tho picked up the problem and flagged a red warning so i had it fixed before doing any towing.

You need to get the wire snipped in the wiring loom inside the rear left tail light assembly. Once snipped all was well.

Also has anyone used the 21W resistors, I almost bought a couple from repco until I read on the pack that they can get to 170C. I needf to mount it to the inside of my can bumper which is fiberglass. How hot does it get in real use?

Cheers
Mike

[Graeme]

Also has anyone used the 21W resistors, I almost bought a couple from repco until I read on the pack that they can get to 170C. I needf to mount it to the inside of my can bumper which is fiberglass. How hot does it get in real use?
I just tested my 6 ohm in 50W heatsinks and they get too hot to hold after about 30 seconds when used in the brake light circuit, ie permanently on rather than blinking. The Repco "21W" ones are probably the 8 ohm ones so might not get so hot so quickly if they have a good heatsink but not by much.

[mike7]

Thanks Grahame,

Do they get hot when the D4 "pulses" them, ie when not indicating. Im thinking if I fit these units to the indicator circuit and they work I wont need any of the led modules. heres hoping anyway!!!

Cheers
Mike

[Graeme]

50% duty will produce 50% of the heat but will take more than twice as long to heat up because the resistors will be dissipating heat even when there's no current, ie off.

My D4 needs 2 stop light "globes" and 2 blinker "globes" to reliably make the trailer blinker indicator work and cancel the reversing sensors.

[mike7]

Grahame the stop lights you mentioned do you mean the red tail lights that come on when you turn on the headlights or the lights that come on when stand on the brakes?

I was gonna put in some 21W globes under the bumper but if the heat of the resistors arnt too bad I might go with that. Much easier to splice them in than to make holders for lights etc.

Cheers
Mike

[Graeme]

Brake lights.

[pedro54]

I do not see why they should get hot with the pulsing as it is not on long enough to turn on an incandescent light. Should only have current when the blinkers are on, and they are not on continuously.

My thought is to purchase an aluminium die cast case form Jaycar and mout the load resistors to that as a heat sink. I the heat is not much then put a switch to disable the Led option, 2 pole single throw between the load resistors and negative to disable the LR when not towing. This could then be permanently mounted in the space behind the left tail light. assembly.

I have a spare plug and the resistors here, so might make up a test rig to see how much heat is generated.

[CaverD3]

Just a thought what about a couple of nrake globes?

[mike7]

I'm just gonna order a new set of incandescent indicator and brakes lights, it's getting too fiddly.

Thanks for the input.

Cheers
Mike

[Geedublya]

OK after trolling through this thread trying to figure out what is required (for my D3) I think I have it.

1. 1 x 6 ohm 25watt or greater on each indicator circuit
2. 2 x 6 ohm 25 watt or greater (or 1 x 3 ohm 50w) in parallel on the brake circuit.
3. Relay on each of those circuits as per the diagram in post 16. This prevents the leds lighting from the pulses.

I intend to mount these in an alloy box in my trailer.

[bbyer]

OK after trolling through this thread trying to figure out what is required (for my D3) I think I have it.

1. 1 x 6 ohm 25 watt or greater on each indicator circuit
2. 2 x 6 ohm 25 watt or greater (or 1 x 3 ohm 50 watt) in parallel on the brake circuit.
3. Relay on each of those circuits as per the diagram in post 16. This prevents the LEDs lighting from the pulses.

I intend to mount these in an alloy box in my trailer.

The link below is a list of materials that I used to construct a LED box for my LR3. Yes, North American trailer lighting is a different from Australia but I think our tail light assemblies are the same - that is the signal light bulbs are separate from the brake light bulbs.

I used a pair of 6 ohm x 50 watt load resistors, one for each signal light wire, but none on the brake light conductor.

The relays are in the signal light circuit as the pulses come down the signal light wires, not the brake wire. The little green trailer symbol that flashes when the signal lights do and disable the backup sensors etc, ignore the brake light circuit and filaments. As such, I do not think you would need load resistors across LED brake light filaments. In my case, I did not.

I did use 6 ohm x 50 watt load resistors but only because they are more heavy duty and do not cost much more. I might add that the bright filament in a P21/5W bulb absorbs about 25 watts of power at 13.5 volts and uses about 1.86 amps of current so the 25 watt load resistors will duplicate the signal lights OK.

This is the link to the bill of materials.

http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/15405/LED_Trailer_Light_adapter_for_LR3.doc

At the bottom of this link are three files re the LED box that I made up based on the wiring diagram in this thread.

DISCO3.CO.UK Photo Gallery - NAS Trailer Socket Pin ID and Wire Colours (http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=4497)

[Presto]

Here's my LED light box build:
After building it I realised it could have been a fair bit smaller! If I had to do it again it would be a little different (eg, lead to large round socket would have been better), but works fine all the same..... :)

I got the board and relays from Jaycar ($20), but was surprised they didn't have the others... I got the resistors off ebay ($10) and the plug/socket from supercheap ($10 each), total $50 for parts!! (more than I'd expected, so decided to use some random wire I have rather than paying crazy money for trailer cable).

The Parts:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/12/62.jpg

I decided to chop up the plug/sockets to neaten up the box, mounted the resistors and relays, and used my way-too-big soldering iron to make a mess of the soldering..... Still, it all tested up ok! (note the violet coloured wire should be brown - budget wouldn't stretch that far!!)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/12/63.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/12/64.jpg

Time to build a box! ...so knocked up something in SolidWorks:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/12/65.jpg

...then load it into the 3D printer:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/12/66.jpg

Final Assembly:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/12/67.jpg

A lick of paint, and I have something that the damn D3 recognises as a trailer!!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/12/68.jpg

[Graeme]

I need to revise what I had previously determined for a D4 to recognise a trailer with LED lights as I have now determined that only the blinkers need a dummy load, the same situation as a D3.

The D4 rear parking sensors need the brake light dummy load only whilst the driver's door is not closed after the blinker dummy load is switched-in. Once the driver's door is closed, the brake light dummy load is not required even if the door is re-opened. I had been testing with the driver's door open and think I have uncovered a little software discrepancy as its not safety logic to my reckoning. I have now removed the brake light feed from my load resistor box, which is quite necessary as the box got too hot to safely store in the side cubby-box after only a couple of minutes with the brakes applied.

[gghaggis]

You'll probably find you only need one blinker with a dummy load too.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Graeme]

I can soon test the 1 blinker load.
I noticed that on the 1st blink after the load was connected the trailer indicator had a delayed start but subsequent blinks it was in time with the main indicator. Likewise when the load was disconnected the trailer indicator started to blink the 1st time but stopped short. Its a shame the reverse parking sensors don't re-enable immediately the trailer is disconnected rather than when the ignition is next cycled.

[Graeme]

You'll probably find you only need one blinker with a dummy load too.
Yes, it only takes 1 blinker dummy load to disable the reversing sensors on my D4.

[meloyelo78]

Please bear with me on this one. While I have a reasonable practical ability with most things mechanical, electronics just completely escapes me.

Could a simpler alternative to the LED trailer/caravan lights issue be to instal non-LED side marker lights? I will soon be having a 21" caravan built and am considering having side indicator lights installed in addition to the rear LED lights, to improve safety. If these side lights were to be standard globes, would this solve the problem of the D3 not recognising a trailer is attached? If so, would I also need side brake lights or would the side indicators suffice?

Cheers
Peter

[bbyer]

If side indicator lights means the bulbs that flash on and off when you are going to turn, then I would say that as long as you have a tungsten filament somewhere in both the left and right trailer signal light circuits, then the computer monitoring the trailer signal light circuit will be happy.

Having a side indicator that flashes is I think good design so if your rear lights are LED, then wire in a normal tungsten filament bulb light assembly as the side indicator. I suggest that you then use genuine LR signal light bulbs, probably the ones used in the rear of the vehicle tail light assembly rather than in the front as you are more likely to have some spares of that type with you.

As to side, or otherwise brake lights, I think not. To my knowledge, the trailer monitoring circuit only monitors the signal light filaments and not the brake light filaments. Also given the problems the brake light switch and bulbs can cause, the fewer brake lights the better.

[Epic]

Are relay's essential when making your own pulse buster? I have the 50w 6ohm resistors already.
I'm going to mount mine permanently on the trailer. Will that cause other users of the trailer any grief?
Thanks
Scott.

[Grappler]

See the link below for details of my homemade led trailer solution.
The design requires relays to defeat the indicators pulsing. The resistors will only solve the trailer sensing issues

Been using this for over a year without problems. Use a metal box and mount resistors to the casting for heat sinking



http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/138768-d3-caravan-led-lights-issues-post1576665.html#post1576665

[bbyer]

Based on the drawings and pictures I got off AULRO, below is what I made up. It works well and could be permanently mounted on a trailer and not negatively affect anything when other vehicles hook directly thru it.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/914.jpg

[Epic]

Someone suggested that if you put a simple filament globe in the line, that will solve your problems too. Hence I assumed that a resistor alone will be suffice. Obviously not. Off to Jaycar again today then.
Thanks

[S3ute]

Has anyone experience and/or recommendations about this?
Hi,

There are several previous posts on this.

You can get a special (and expensive) adaptor as others mention.

However, on the advice of my local auto electrician I fixed mine for about $4 using two small bulbs from Jaycar wired inside the trailer plug - hook one bulb onto each indicator terminal and unite the earths of both onto the common earth terminal. This creates sufficient draw to let the system know that the lights are there.

Had mine wired this way for over a year and it works fine.

Cheers,

[bbyer]

Hi,

There are several previous posts on this.

You can get a special (and expensive) adaptor as others mention.

However, on the advice of my local auto electrician I fixed mine for about $4 using two small bulbs from Jaycar wired inside the trailer plug - hook one bulb onto each indicator terminal and unite the earths of both onto the common earth terminal. This creates sufficient draw to let the system know that the lights are there.

Had mine wired this way for over a year and it works fine.

Cheers, I can understand that inserting the two small bulbs, (or I suppose two resistors), should create the conditions to allow the green trailer light to display and hence the 3 then knows that a trailer is connected. What I wondered is do the LED trailer lights do what I call the "twinkle" thing where they dimly light up ever few seconds? If so, it really of course does not matter even though it is not something I personally like seeing.

[gghaggis]

I can understand that inserting the two small bulbs, (or I suppose two resistors), should create the conditions to allow the green trailer light to display and hence the 3 then knows that a trailer is connected. What I wondered is do the LED trailer lights do what I call the "twinkle" thing where they dimly light up ever few seconds? If so, it really of course does not matter even though it is not something I personally like seeing.

I think people are confusing the two issues - the "twinkling" occurs only with the older D3's. It's not an issue with the D4 (as it has its own LED's!).

The resistors or globes in parallel with one of the indicator circuits will enable the sensing of a trailer with LEDs. Obviously for a D4 this is sufficient.

With the D3, one also needs to address the pulsing ("twinkling"), hence the need for relays.

Cheers,

Gordon

[SBD4]

I think people are confusing the two issues - the "twinkling" occurs only with the older D3's. It's not an issue with the D4 (as it has its own LED's!).

The resistors or globes in parallel with one of the indicator circuits will enable the sensing of a trailer with LEDs. Obviously for a D4 this is sufficient.

With the D3, one also needs to address the pulsing ("twinkling"), hence the need for relays.

Cheers,

Gordon

That is about the best clarification of the issue I have read. It also explains the different results people get implementing the various solutions.

[bcl]

Gordon. Where were you 70 posts ago. Well said, clears up a lot of questions.

[swordfish805]

The resistors or globes in parallel with one of the indicator circuits will enable the sensing of a trailer with LEDs. Obviously for a D4 this is sufficient.



OK, this might be a stupid question...but here goes.

Why is it only necessary to add resistance to the indicator circuits? Doesn't that mean the D4 will sense the presence of the trailer only when the indicators are used?

Surely it needs to sense the presence of the trailer regardless of whether the indicators have been used - for example to switch of the reversing warning, turn on the advance tow stability assist etc?

[rufusking]

The method that the D4 (and others) use is to send a pulse signal down the line to detect what is there (as well as non functioning lights). It this pulse that causes the LED's to mimic Christmas Tree lights. The resistor acts as a globe for the pulse signal and tells the ECU that everything is there and good.

[swordfish805]

Yes, I understand that, but things still don't seem right.

If the pulse is what is required to detect the trailer - why the need for the globe (ie for the additional resistance)?

If the globe (or other means of additional resistance) is the means of detecting the trailer - how does it work on the indicator circuit (which is where Gordon suggests installing the globe)?

It seems to me it must work under one of three scenarios:

a) there must be a pulse sent down the indicator circuit as well as the brake circuit - which means on a D3 the indicators must flash/twinkle as well as the brake lights; or

b) there is no pulse sent down the indicator circuit -instead the car waits for the indicators to be used and then senses the additional load and switches to trailer mode; or

c) the presence of a trailer is not detected by any signal on the indicator circuit and instead relies on the pulse sent down the brake circuit - in which case it seems Gordon's advice should be to install a globe on the brake circuit not the indicator circuit.

Obviously option b) is stupid - but what about a) and c)?

[sniegy]

Ok,
2 vehicles with 2 outcomes but same fix.

D3 LED trailer connected, indicator lights flash as per Hazard button pressed. But not recognised.

D4 LED trailer connected, indicator lights do not flash. But still not recognised.
The D4 was designed to rectify the flashing issue but still the load pick up was not.

Therefore a "Load" must be placed in between tow vehicle & trailer.


Lets say for example(D3) Indicators.
Front 21w x 2 +
Side repeaters 10w x 2 +
Rear 21w x 2 =104w.
The target load would then be 104w + 21w x 2 or 146w (trailer load) for the unit to function correctly.
All recognised & working correctly.
These are not exact figures but gives you an idea of how the system works.

Because LED's are used the wattage is much lower (anything from .04w to 3w) & when you add the figures (104w + 3w x 2 = 110w) they do not come close to getting to the target figure, hence why a dummy load on the indicator circuit is required.

I hope this clears things up a little.

Cheers

[101RRS]

Yes, I understand that, but things still don't seem right.

If the pulse is what is required to detect the trailer - why the need for the globe (ie for the additional resistance)?

If the globe (or other means of additional resistance) is the means of detecting the trailer - how does it work on the indicator circuit (which is where Gordon suggests installing the globe)?

It seems to me it must work under one of three scenarios:

a) there must be a pulse sent down the indicator circuit as well as the brake circuit - which means on a D3 the indicators must flash/twinkle as well as the brake lights; or

b) there is no pulse sent down the indicator circuit -instead the car waits for the indicators to be used and then senses the additional load and switches to trailer mode; or

c) the presence of a trailer is not detected by any signal on the indicator circuit and instead relies on the pulse sent down the brake circuit - in which case it seems Gordon's advice should be to install a globe on the brake circuit not the indicator circuit.

Obviously option b) is stupid - but what about a) and c)?

Your logic may very well be sound - however the reality is that the D3 sends pulses down the indicator circuits - irresepective of whether a trailer is on or not - if the car ignition is on the pulses are going down the lines. When it detects a resistance like a globe (or a relay with a resistor) the ECU decides a trailer is there and switches off the reverse parkers etc. If a trailer is connected and it has LEDs there is not enough resistance.

It is fact that the pulses go down the indicator lines and no other - connect LEDs and you will see only the indicators pulsing (even with no indicator selected) while the ignition is on ad when the ignition stays on they keep pulsing for about 3 minutes then switch off.

When I connect my pulse buster but not a trailer - because of the resistance the car thinks the trailer is there even though it is not.
Garry

[gghaggis]

Yes, I understand that, but things still don't seem right.

If the pulse is what is required to detect the trailer - why the need for the globe (ie for the additional resistance)?

If the globe (or other means of additional resistance) is the means of detecting the trailer - how does it work on the indicator circuit (which is where Gordon suggests installing the globe)?

It seems to me it must work under one of three scenarios:

a) there must be a pulse sent down the indicator circuit as well as the brake circuit - which means on a D3 the indicators must flash/twinkle as well as the brake lights; or

b) there is no pulse sent down the indicator circuit -instead the car waits for the indicators to be used and then senses the additional load and switches to trailer mode; or

c) the presence of a trailer is not detected by any signal on the indicator circuit and instead relies on the pulse sent down the brake circuit - in which case it seems Gordon's advice should be to install a globe on the brake circuit not the indicator circuit.

Obviously option b) is stupid - but what about a) and c)?

Sorry - missed this earlier.

A D4 doesn't continually pulse anything - otherwise its own LEDs would flicker. However, every time the driver door is closed, it sends a single pulse down the trailer indicator circuit. If it detects a load, it configures the vehicle for an attached trailer.

At any other activation of an indicator, it also checks the load.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Epic]

So once detected, the trailer symbol on the dash stays on?

[rufusking]

So once detected, the trailer symbol on the dash stays on?

No, it only comes on with the indicator flash.

[Epic]

No, it only comes on with the indicator flash.

For both D3 and D4?
I would have presumed that the trailer symbol would stay on indicating that the anti sway features were on.

[bbyer]

As rufusking said, on both the 3 and 4, the green trailer symbol only flashes in unison with the indicator lights. My view is that the fewer warning lights illuminated in front of me, the better I feel.

[swordfish805]

Your logic may very well be sound - however the reality is that the D3 sends pulses down the indicator circuits -
Garry

Finally! Thanks Garry, so it is the indicator circuit not the brake circuit (as was discussed earlier) that is pulsed? Now it makes sense.

[101RRS]

Finally! Thanks Garry, so it is the indicator circuit not the brake circuit (as was discussed earlier) that is pulsed? Now it makes sense.

Yes - I recently connected a LED trailer on my car and only the indicators pulsed - in the daylight barely noticeable and at night a little more but completely overridden when the indicators were used so not really a safety issue. All other lights worked as normal.

Garry

[Epic]

Fitted my new LED's to the trailer this afternoon. I've not fully soldered and shrink tubed the connections yet as I wanted to make sure all was right.
Everything works now but the tail light and number plate light. I'll have to look at it again before I tidy everything up.
Here's how I put together my load resistors.
54472
I put a piece of 32mm aluminium between the bolts from the light and riveted the resistors on. Not my tidiest work but I had two little helpers under 4.
Thanks for the tips.

[Epic]

Got the tail lights to work so finished the job. And now the don't work again!

[flotty1974]

After following this thread, I rang a local caravan place who told me about this resistor that was already made up. They put me onto Repco. After my RAA membership discount, it came out to about $14.50. I bought 2, one for each side. I know some people want to attach something to their car but if you are only going to tow the one trailer, this is a cheap option. The wiring diagram is simple. You join it on either side of the light.

[Epic]

I bought a set of 4 resistors for $6.45 delivered off eBay. 50ohm 6w. No probs with them so far.

[Redback]

I connected a trailer with LED lights a few days ago, the only issue was the left indicator on the trailer wouldn't work, turned the lights on the car on and bingo, all good, all lights and indicators working.

BUT, the trailer symbol was not flashing when using the indicators that I can remember, would that mean the car was not recognizing the trailer??

Seemed to tow fine:)

Baz.

[flotty1974]

I still haven't installed my resistors so cant comment on them yet but I did notice the other night when I openned my door, the brake (or was it the rear lights) on the trailer came on. Has anyone had this happen? I know someone mentioned that you have to have your door closed earlier but I found it rather bizzare.

[LandieMan]

Gosh, what a fuss a "feature" that's meant to help make our trucks smarter has caused for so many people. An excellent example of the law of unintended consequences.

I've just changed the lights on my trailer to LEDs and now have this "flicker" issue with my 2005 Range Rover (L322) TD6.

I've noticed on mine that both turning indicators and the tail lights are "flickering" so I assume that means I need to put shunt resistors and relays on both the indicator and the tail light circuits (3 circuits in total)?

I see most of the dialogue on this thread refers to the D3/D4/RRS platform so I'm guessing the fact that the tail lights are also flickering on the L322 might be an additional "feature" of the L322.

Cheers & thanks to all those who have posted info on this thread. It's all very helpful.

LandieMan.

[AnD3rew]

After following this thread, I rang a local caravan place who told me about this resistor that was already made up. They put me onto Repco. After my RAA membership discount, it came out to about $14.50. I bought 2, one for each side. I know some people want to attach something to their car but if you are only going to tow the one trailer, this is a cheap option. The wiring diagram is simple. You join it on either side of the light.

This looks like an excellent cheap and easy solution

[Ashes]

Unfortunately the easiest and cheapest solution is to change indicators to globes. I did this with mine but would rather have LED compatibility as I've hired trailers a couple of times with LED's.
Can anyone else confirm Redback's observation that having the headlights on changes the behaviour of the LED's on the trailer? I would be happy to use this as a workaround if it as reliable.

[flotty1974]

I finally got around to putting the resistors on the trailer which was easy as. Obviously it wasn't as cheap as Epic's sollution but less of a brain strain for me with all of the different talk on this forum about ohms and watts :spudnikdizzy:. Anyway, it works great.

For those who think the flickering is only a LR issue, my friend who has an F truck just changed his rear lights to LED and had the same issue. The only issue for him was each time he changed the lights to LED (including the front and clearance lights) he put in an extra resistor :Rolling: , anyway another friend with a VW is also have a similar issue.

Does anyone know if the eletrical companies are selling LED lights with resistors already in them? This would generally solve every bodies issue (if the car companies caught up would also fix it but not as cheap).

[Tombie]

Snippy

For those who think the flickering is only a LR issue, my friend who has an F truck just changed his rear lights to LED and had the same issue. The only issue for him was each time he changed the lights to LED (including the front and clearance lights) he put in an extra resistor :Rolling: , anyway another friend with a VW is also have a similar issue.



Why the rolling smiley?

People who fit LEDs to save power are the :Rolling:...

LEDs are for reliability and intensity.. Nothing more :)

Trying to 'save power' on a vehicle really is a total waste with a modern vehicle...

[LandieMan]

After following this thread, I rang a local caravan place who told me about this resistor that was already made up. They put me onto Repco. After my RAA membership discount, it came out to about $14.50.

$14.50 would be nice... I saw one one of these on the shelf at Repco in Christchurch today for $38.40. Funnily enough it stayed on the shelf. I need 3 of them, plus relays so it starting to get expensive. The search continues.

LandieMan

[Geedublya]

Why do you need 3, D3 only needs 1 x resistor and relay on each indicator circuit.

D4 (as I understand it) needs 1 x resistor on each indicator circuit.

4 x resistors (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4-LED-Turn-Signal-Controller-Load-Resistors-Blinker-Bulb-Fix-50W-6ohm-Indicators-/170972753057?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27cec52ca1&_uhb=1#ht_3606wt_979) from Ebay AUS $9 shipped, from Hong Kong.

I prefer 50w as they get quite hot.

[flotty1974]

Why the rolling smiley?

People who fit LEDs to save power are the :Rolling:...

LEDs are for reliability and intensity.. Nothing more :)

Trying to 'save power' on a vehicle really is a total waste with a modern vehicle...
Sorry I should have explained myself a little more, he kept putting a resistor on each light instead of putting one on the circuit so he has 12 different resistors around his car.

[Graeme]

Can anyone else confirm Redback's observation that having the headlights on changes the behaviour of the LED's on the trailer? I would be happy to use this as a workaround if it as reliable.I haven't yet but certainly will when I replace the lights on my van which I've been meaning to do for some time. I drive with my lights on anyway so if it works then great!

[Graeme]

Led van/trailer lights work with my D4 with or without the headlights on but the reversing sensors are not disabled nor does the trailer indicator work in either case. I'll fit a resistor to the blinker wire for each cluster to know that power is getting to the cluster which should both operate the trailer indicator and cancel the reversing sensors.

[LandieMan]

Why do you need 3, D3 only needs 1 x resistor and relay on each indicator circuit.

D4 (as I understand it) needs 1 x resistor on each indicator circuit.



I'm not 100% sure that I do need 3. I have a L322 2005 and I noticed that not only both indicators were flickering but the tail light (or might have been the brake light) was flickering too. I'm therefore wondering then if the L322 monitors the tail lights too?? From the previous posts it appears the D3/D4 only monitors the indicators.

In saying that, if it is the tail lights that are flickering, one solution to stop it is to always drive with the headlights on.

Cheers, Landieman

[Grappler]

I have just hooked my led trailer (without my home made pulse busta- see post earlier in this thread) and on RRS the indicators on the trailer still pulse with the headlights on

There are two issues being discussed here.

One is the vehicle sensing the trailer is attached. The vehicle will invoke towing mode when the load of a 21w globe is detected. This allows the vehicle to defeat the reverse sensor as well as other traction and body control functions,that are normally defeated when towing as well as activate the trailer indicator on the dash.The solution for this is a resistor in each indicator circuit to match the wattage of a standard 21w trailer indicator globe.

Two is the trailer leds pulsing.
This is caused by the HS Can bus scanning to see if a trailer is connected.
A normal globe is unaffected by this, but a led is sensitve to the scanning and pulses. The solution for this is to isolate the Canbus to the trailer with a relay

[Graeme]

This is caused by the HS Can bus scanning to see if a trailer is connected.
A normal globe is unaffected by this, but a led is sensitve to the scanning and pulses. The solution for this is to isolate the Canbus to the trailer with a relayIts got nothing to do with the HS canbus. The flashing is done by the BCU on the trailer blinker power circuits.

[gghaggis]

Gentlemen,

Please re-read posts #73 and #81 in this thread. Lets not rehash everything again in the same thread !!!

Cheers,

Gordon

[LandieMan]

Gentlemen,

Please re-read posts #73 and #81 in this thread. Lets not rehash everything again in the same thread !!!

Cheers,

Gordon

Thanks Gordon. Those posts do provide a good summary.

Does a 2005 L322 behave the same as the D3 or D4?

Cheers, LandieMan

[gghaggis]

Should be similar to a D3

Cheers,

Gordon

[But 'n' Ben]

MY11 D4 Modification.
Hi Gordon, much confusion on this subject on this thread, and for several reasons.
Differing levels of knowledge.
Differing levels of Engineering.
Different Models discussed, D3,D4,RRS etc;
Finally, how thick is your wallet? Here is my 'Two Bobs' worth.
I read through the complete 'Thread', and having picked up, specifically, on your inputs, I purchased just one, 12V 21W Resistor, NARVA from Repco, cost $17.99.
Before fitting, I did a test, using a 21W bulb, and found that, if placed across either Left, or Right indicator circuit, ( I tried the Right first ) the car detected this load, and disabled:-
The Rear parking sensors.
The automatic raising of the Suspension when selecting Rock Crawl, and engaging Low Range.
And I assume that Sway Control would be activated, along with Remapping of the Gearbox.
The green trailer icon in the RPM gauge flashed in unison with the main Flasher arrow, but here is the 'Rub'. The trailer icon only flashes on the side that the test bulb, or Resistor is fitted.
I conclude that, although the Automatic bits of Magic are Enabled/Disabled, when only one Load is fitted, it requires both indicator circuits to have a load fitted in order to get the green trailer indication.
I also had some weird things happening/not happening, when the drivers door was not closed, and this was only the drivers door, the passenger door, when open, did not make any difference.
Now to purchase another resistor and get it to the Caravan 'Sparky' to Hard wire them into the front Battery/Electronic bay on the Van. Total cost $32.40, did not have time to get them from 'Fleabay'.
Regards,
Don.

[Cappa]

Hi folks
I recently fell into the same issue - changing from normal globes to LEDs on my boat trailer and find that the D3 does not recognise the trailer - I too wish I had known this earlier and read this thread.

Question - what impact does the do nothing " option have to the car? I mean apart from the twinkle of the indicator lights and the rear sensor never stopping - what else stops working on the D3?

I like the idea of adding auxilary set of globes to provide teh necessary load.

thanks !!

[gghaggis]

I conclude that, although the Automatic bits of Magic are Enabled/Disabled, when only one Load is fitted, it requires both indicator circuits to have a load fitted in order to get the green trailer indication.

Don.

If (for some reason) you need both indicators to illuminate the trailer icon, then yes, you will need a resistor across both indicator circuits. However, in all other functions one is enough (it's a latching circuit, not an instant "toggle").

Cheers,

Gordon

[mudgee31672]

would you guys know if a 12v 40amp resistor protected relay work? The resister is inbuilt between poles 85 and 85. Dont know the resistor value. in the relay

mudgee

[bbyer]

Unfortunately, no. Well the relay will work OK, but you still need the load resistors. The internal resistor is to protect the vehicle circuit boards and is not really seen by the signal light system load sensing circuits.

The resistance of the internal resistor across pins 85 and 86 for a nominal 12VDC relay is most often 680 ohms. On some relays the resistor is either not there at all or replaced by a diode.

The purpose of the resistor is to soak up voltage spikes that can result when the power to the coil returns to zero - that is depowered. The energy in the coil has to go somewhere, the resistor soaks it up rather than a printed circuit board in some onboard computer.

These voltage spikes can harm the computers within a vehicle and that is why most relays on newer vehicles now incorporate some sort of spike dampening or absorption design feature.

[mudgee31672]

thanks bbyer looks like i'll go the other way

mudgee

[PeterOZ]

Hi all,
Here’s a diagram of the basic wiring to stop the pulsing on a LED trailer.
Simple and easy to make using either crimp connectors, soldering or fitting into a transportable box if needed.


A suitably rated transistor would also work well but a little more complex in the circuitry but would remove the click click of the relay operating.

[bbyer]

Question - what impact does the do nothing " option have to the car? I mean apart from the twinkle of the indicator lights and the rear sensor never stopping - what else stops working on the D3?

I like the idea of adding auxilary set of globes to provide the necessary load.

thanks !! Rather than "Stops Working", it is more of a case of what remains in operation.

When the 3 senses that a trailer is attached, the rear distance sounders are disabled as they would see the trailer when reverse gear is selected. Also automatic height changes at speed are inhibited if the trailer is sensed, no sensing, no inhibition. There may also be some gear shift point changes as well but of that, I am not certain.

[Epic]

I'm helping a mate tow a car from Melbourne back to Adelaide this coming weekend. He's borrowed another blokes race car trailer which has LED lights. It also had a rectangular light connection so I needed to get an adaptor.
I had a spare load resistor from when I fixed my trailer lights so I got to work on this.
70826

I extended the wiring so that I could hang the rectangular plug off the hitch pin/bolt and added a load resistor into the indicator line as required. I'll test it out in the morning but I'm happy with the outcome assuming if works!

Cost was less than $25.

[Basil135]

Looks similar to what I have done.

7 pin plug & socket gets connected inline between the trailer & the car, with a little box housing the resistors in the middle.

Picked up a twin pack of the resistors from Autobarn for $10, and the metal box from Jaycar. Already had the plug & socket.

I have only used one resistor, as the box was a little small for both, but all the lights work well. FWIW - I put it in the right indicator cct, and the dash light flashes when I indicate right, and not left, as I expected. But, the main thing is, the left indicator on the trailer works as it should.

Cheap, simple & easy... bit like me, really... :D

[Epic]

I did both left and right on my trailer wired in behind the lights. Dash trailer light flashes with either direction. With what you've said, I should expect that my dash light will flash only with a left turn but the overall system should work.

[otobas]

Hi all,
Here’s a diagram of the basic wiring to stop the pulsing on a LED trailer.
Simple and easy to make using either crimp connectors, soldering or fitting into a transportable box if needed.

I know this thread was a while ago now, but I took your tip and built a pig-tail with a box in it containing the requisite bits and pieces. It works fine for suppressing the pulsing lights and driving the blinkers on my Disco 3, but the vehicle doesn't recognise the trailer being there. I think that might be because I used a ceramic resistor in place of the LR12s (cheaper), but chose the wrong one (probably not big enough).

Do I HAVE to use the LR12? If not, what value resistor should I use?

David P.

[slug_burner]

I know this thread was a while ago now, but I took your tip and built a pig-tail with a box in it containing the requisite bits and pieces. It works fine for suppressing the pulsing lights and driving the blinkers on my Disco 3, but the vehicle doesn't recognise the trailer being there. I think that might be because I used a ceramic resistor in place of the LR12s (cheaper), but chose the wrong one (probably not big enough).

Do I HAVE to use the LR12? If not, what value resistor should I use?

David P.

You have to have the resistor in parallel with the lights. The system looking to recognise that a trailer is attached will be looking for a 21W bulb.

Power = V x I

I = Power/V in our case I = 21/12 approx 2 amps.

V=IR or R = V/I in our case R = 12/2 = 6 ohm. nearest readily available values are either 5.6 ohm or or 6.2 ohm. Just make sure that the resistor is able to handle the 20 Watts.

[davidgamble]

I have a 2013 Freelander 2. I recently replaced the lights on my old trailer with LED units and found that the vehicle no longer recognized that a trailer was attached. There was no trailer icon showing on the dash, the reversing sensor squealed all the time and presumably the stability control algorithms were compromised. After reading this thread and a bit of head scratching I fitted a single LR12 load resistor between the earth wire and the right hand turn indicator - problem solved!

It occurs to me that there may be a lot of people out there who are unaware of this problem. If you are towing a trailer and the trailer icon does not show, then it is probably best to disable the stability control until a suitable load resistor is fitted.

[gghaggis]

No, it's not best to disable DSC. It is still effective, even when not primed for a trailer.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Meken]

I'm with Gordon - I wouldn't be disabling dsc particularly with the trailer on. That computer is still a lot quicker at correcting (dare I say even smarter) than me - especially as the years and distractions build

[Epic]

I used my little adaptor yesterday towing the car trailer from Adelaide to Melbourne. All of the lights worked except for the clearance lights. No problem as we were coming over in the day.
Turns out that we can't leave for home tomorrow till midday. We need the clearance/tail lights for the last few hours coming into Adelaide.
Painfully, the clearance lights work fine on a Toyota but no luck with the D4. Seemingly, the D4 has a wiring issue.
I ended up wiring the clearance/tail lights (brown wire) into the white plug on the right of the tow hitch. From what I can see, it's the green wire which I think is an auxiliary wire.

It looks terrible but I guess I'm safe that way. Is there any issue with using this power source?

[Basil135]

If your clearance lights are not working on the trailer, are the tail lights?

They should be wired in parallel on the trailer, so regardless of what vehicle you attach the trailer to, they should work.

But, doing it the way you have should be ok. The white plug just supplies power, and nothing else, as far as I am aware.

I take it you have your magic box wired in with the indicators on the trailer?

[Epic]

Yes. No tail lights. Brake lights fine.
Load resistor on the left indicator.
As long as I'm ok using the power source from the white plug with no issue.
The reason I ask is after rooting around with it yesterday for half hour with the LED headlights on and the doors open , I had trouble starting the car. I'd push the start button and the screen would say the entertainment system would shut down in 3 mins if the car wasn't started, then the whole thing just went dead. We pulled out the trailer plug, and additional wire, gave it a few minutes then it started like nothing was wrong. Just one of those things I guess. If we stop on the way home I may just pull the additional wire out. I only have 1 battery.
Off topic sorry. Thanks for the reply.

[otobas]

You have to have the resistor in parallel with the lights. The system looking to recognise that a trailer is attached will be looking for a 21W bulb.

Power = V x I

I = Power/V in our case I = 21/12 approx 2 amps.

V=IR or R = V/I in our case R = 12/2 = 6 ohm. nearest readily available values are either 5.6 ohm or or 6.2 ohm. Just make sure that the resistor is able to handle the 20 Watts.

Knuckled down and just bought the LR12s in the end - it now works a treat! Thank you so much for your advice!

[Crosbo]

Now I am perplexed. I have a '05 D3, US spec. I discovered the LED light problem a year or so ago when renting U-haul trailers to move children to and from college. A bit of research and I found the U-haul LED light trailer module #39008, that was produced specifically for Mercedes, Volkswagen and other european models to solve the LED problem. Out of curiosity I opened the unit up and noticed the resistors (pink with Brown, Black, Brown and Gold stripes = 100 ohm with a 5% tolerance) installed for the 3 light lines to the ground. Unfortunately, use of the module never produced noticeable changes i.e., no discernible improvements in vehicle performance to counter act the weight of the trailer, parking distance monitor did not turn off, no "trailer" light when using turn signals and the trailer lights still pulsed when parked and the vehicle turned off.

After renting another U-haul trailer to move furniture for our son this past weekend, I once again took up the project. However, this time I noticed that only the left light on the trailer was pulsing when using the U-haul "european adapter", parked and the vehicle turned off. Yesterday, using the attached document from this thread, using 4 pole relays I built the relay contraption using 4-pin trailer connectors with the little built-in LED lights.

When I use the relay contraption alone, I see pulsing at both turn signal lines, but not enough power to activate the relay. Once I turn on the turn signal, the relay click in time with the turn signals as expected for both sides. All checking out as expected. However, if I remove the 4-wire connection, insert the u-haul adapter with 100 ohm resistors (tested, each providing 99 ohms of resistance) then plug in the relay contraption, the pulse on the right turn signal is gone, but the right turn relay no longer activates. The left turn signal pulse remains, but the relay for the left turn signal does activate when using the left turn signal.

So, I haven't yet been able to determine what is up with the right turn signal issue. Also, at no time does the "trailer symbol" ever appear.

Thoughts?

[Basil135]

Now I am perplexed. I have a '05 D3, US spec. I discovered the LED light problem a year or so ago when renting U-haul trailers to move children to and from college. A bit of research and I found the U-haul LED light trailer module #39008, that was produced specifically for Mercedes, Volkswagen and other european models to solve the LED problem. Out of curiosity I opened the unit up and noticed the resistors (pink with Brown, Black, Brown and Gold stripes = 100 ohm with a 5% tolerance) installed for the 3 light lines to the ground. Unfortunately, use of the module never produced noticeable changes i.e., no discernible improvements in vehicle performance to counter act the weight of the trailer, parking distance monitor did not turn off, no "trailer" light when using turn signals and the trailer lights still pulsed when parked and the vehicle turned off.

After renting another U-haul trailer to move furniture for our son this past weekend, I once again took up the project. However, this time I noticed that only the left light on the trailer was pulsing when using the U-haul "european adapter", parked and the vehicle turned off. Yesterday, using the attached document from this thread, using 4 pole relays I built the relay contraption using 4-pin trailer connectors with the little built-in LED lights.

When I use the relay contraption alone, I see pulsing at both turn signal lines, but not enough power to activate the relay. Once I turn on the turn signal, the relay click in time with the turn signals as expected for both sides. All checking out as expected. However, if I remove the 4-wire connection, insert the u-haul adapter with 100 ohm resistors (tested, each providing 99 ohms of resistance) then plug in the relay contraption, the pulse on the right turn signal is gone, but the right turn relay no longer activates. The left turn signal pulse remains, but the relay for the left turn signal does activate when using the left turn signal.

So, I haven't yet been able to determine what is up with the right turn signal issue. Also, at no time does the "trailer symbol" ever appear.

Thoughts?

Hi Crosbo,

I think you could be over complicating things, by using the relays.

What I did, was essentially take a length of trailer wire, and put a plug on one end, and a socket on the other, and wired it straight thru.

Then, in the middle, I put the load resistor between the pins for the left turn indicator, so that it runs in parallel with the standard wiring. It doesn't matter if it is on the left or right indicator.

When using a trailer with the D4 that has LED's, I simply plug it into the car, and the trailer into the new socket. As soon as I flick the LH indicator on, the car knows there is a trailer there, and all is sweet.

All we are trying to do is to tell the car there is a trailer attached, and it does this by seeing the load which it thinks is a normal incandescent bulb.

[Crosbo]

Yeah I'm with you Basil. But if it is that simple, I am still stumped as to why the U-haul adapter I purchased isn't sufficient. It obviously works for other brands of rigs with similar schemes. But thus far, the 100 ohm resistors built into the adapter and attached to both left/right and running lights lines, have not caused the vehicle to recognize the trailer. Or at least, the "trailer" light on the dashboard has never ever lit up.

[Basil135]

I think I have found your problem.

The adapter you currently have, has a 100 ohm resistor in it. The D3 / D4 only require a 6 ohm, 21 watt resistor, wired in parallel.

Try this, and see how it goes. Should be able to get one for less than <$20.

[Crosbo]

Thanx Basil. I ordered some of the 6 ohm resistors today. Hope to have them by Monday. Man I hate it that the existing setup didn't work...since it was so nice and neatly packaged.

Thanx.

[Ferret]

People are talking about D3s and D4s within the same thread without making a distinction between the two. My understanding is they are different and require slightly different approaches to fixing the trailer LED problems.

Both D3 and D4 attempt to detect the attachment of a trailer by sending a pulse down the trailer indicator wiring. When it detects the required resistance it assumes a trailer is connected and reconfigures the vehicle as required. Applying the appropriate resistance in parallel with one or both LED indicator lights on the trailer with cause both the D3 and the D4 to detect the trailer.

However, the difference between the D3 and D4 is the D4 only ever sends one detection pulse down the line, when the drivers door is closed. The D3, on the other hand, is continuously pulsing the line.

This pulse, whether on the D4 or the D3, will cause both indicator lights to flash simultaneously. On the D4 it does not matter because it only happens once just before you drive away. On a D3 it is a problem because it never stops while driving.

So the solution to LED lights problem on a D4 requires only appropriate resistors. The solution to the LED problem on a D3 requires appropriate resistors but also some means of filtering the trailer detection pulses from the system after the trailer has been detected. The pulse filtering is usually implemented by a using relays. That is why some trailer adaptor 'black boxes' have relays in them. They are required for the D3 but serve no purpose for the D4 and are not needed.

Like I say, that is my understanding. Hope I've got right.

[Crosbo]

With respect to the D3 Ferret, that is how I understand it. Two issues:

1) Trailer recognition as indicated by the trailer dashboard light illumination with the use of the turning signals: so as to disable the Parking Assistant and to allow the BECM to adjust power curves, shift points etc.

2) Eliminate the pulse light issue.


It appears that I do not have adequate resistors in place to resolve #1 (thanx again Basil)...but will in a few days. This issue is my primary concern...recognition of the trailer and the rig undergoing the adjustments to improve performance, economy (did I really just type this with a LR3?) and safety.

As for #2, pulsing LED's, this problem is resolved thru use of the relays. This I have already witnessed.

Thanx to all that have contributed...over the years! :D

[slug_burner]

If the D3 does continue to pulse the turning circuits then the relays is a simple way of filtering. The relays by themselves could be enough to look like an incandescent bulb. It will come down to how sensitive the detection circuit is!


Forgot to say, the reason the relays filter the pulses is that there is not enough energy in a sensing pulse to pull the relay shut whereas the turning signal pulse is much longer and does have the energy to pull the relay closed.

[Tombie]

Relays with built in resistor may be adequate.

[Crosbo]

Although the pulses on my D3 are not enough energy to cause the 40 amp / 14VDC relays that I am using to close, the 79+ ohms of resistance the relay is providing, is not being recognized by the vehicle as a trailer being connected.

[RHS58]

So it appears I don't need to purchase a Linear Electronics adaptor for $260 for my D4.
Just need to get a few bits from jaycar.
There a project for me over the weekend.

[Grappler]

Here is a pic of the "blackbox" I made as a project for RRS. made it a couple of years ago and still works fine for both led trailer recognitions and pulse suppression. Cost about $70 including box and in line connectors

[slug_burner]

Although the pulses on my D3 are not enough energy to cause the 40 amp / 14VDC relays that I am using to close, the 79+ ohms of resistance the relay is providing, is not being recognized by the vehicle as a trailer being connected.

Just put a 6 to 8 ohm resistor in parallel with the coil on the relay, the resistor will have to have a 10 to 20 Watt rating. With 20 Watts you should be able to handle the blinker getting stuck on continuously. Ten Watts you might get away with given the duty cycle of the blinkers but the resistor will get hot, A 20 Watt with a built in heat sink will be the safest.

If you don't mind waiting for the post these are a good deal 4X LED Turn Signal FOG Run (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4X-LED-Turn-Signal-Fog-Run-ning-Load-Resistors-Blinker-Bulbs-Fix-25W-8ohm-12V-/390646455112)

if it is just a trailer then this is a better deal 2X Flash Rate Load Resistors LED Turn Signals Indicator Blinkers Controllers 25W | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2x-Flash-Rate-Load-Resistors-LED-Turn-Signals-Indicator-Blinkers-Controllers-25W-/310490102687?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item484aa6fb9f)

[bbyer]

I noted the two pictures above and got to thinking of my album related to the NAS tail light setup and LED concern. Hence I thought I would post the link as three of the files at the bottom may be of interest.

My solution as detailed was based on data I got off AULRO and works well. Within the one pdf are a number of links back to AULRO which may be of interest for review of past solutions.

DISCO3.CO.UK Photo Gallery - NAS Trailer Socket Pin ID and Wire Colours (http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=4497)

[Crosbo]

Thanx for the reminder bbyer...now I remember that your set-up was exactly what I was wanting to build.

Back to Home Deport for a box and the resistors should arrive on Monday. Hope to be ready to tow by Wednesday. :D

[Crosbo]

Thanx everyone for the information I collectively used to built my own version of a trailer harness interface. I wanted to find a way to either temporarily mount the adapter to a rental trailer or to the hitch area of the LR. Funny thing is, as I was working thru the assembly process, I kept changing the design, layout or type of mount I would eventually use. What I wound up with is a nice little package that has wound up to be very secure. I started with two 4-pin adapters, both with the LED lights so I could confirm the signal/pulse...

[Crosbo]

Next was to assemble the resistors and relays in an appropriately sized enclosure...

[Crosbo]

Once assembled, for the sake of space efficiency, I decided to forgo a 2nd hose and set of wires...

[Crosbo]

Next came the rough fitment into the hitch and tow ring cavity...

[Crosbo]

Once the fitment and tethering issues were worked out, it was time paint the assembly, allow to dry and re-fit to ensure all worked as planned.

[bbyer]

I am impressed at how small and neat a bundle your adapter is.

Mounting the trailer end plug on the box was rather good design touch.

I also like the little LED's at the vehicle end - it lets you know if signal is going into the box - a nice concept.

Thanks for the pictures.

[Grappler]

Good job. Just one safety related observation

I cant tell from your pics, but is your enclosure metal? Those load resistors get very hot and should be bolted to metal, preferably with heat paste, as a heat sink.

Some plastic boxes could melt or worse even catch fire.

[Crosbo]

Thanx bbyer.

Yes Grappler, the enclosure is metal. I built the system to dissipate as much heat as possible while using such a small space. In fact, during the initial test phase with just the wiring and eliminating the U-haul adapter I previously was using, I checked to see how quickly the resistors heated up...YOWZA!!! In just the amount of time it took to turn on the turn signal from the drivers window and walk back to the testing system, the resistor got dang hot. One can quickly burn the fingers! :o

[Grappler]

Cool?

Thought it was worth mentioning, for others that may want to build one

[Crosbo]

Yep, makes sense Grappler. I was concerned about the heat and the continued use of the turn signals and heat generated while possibly waiting for the lights to change at an intersection. Then I realized, the same style &/or value of resistors are used by many for "upgraded" lights with continued use. I was prepared to only activate my turning signals when actually in motion; not when sitting motionless at an intersection. But after checking thermal values, I am no longer concerned.

[coopers1969]

help guys

i have read this thread 2 times now and i still can't stop the tail lights from flashing. i am using the Narva LED Load Resistor. i have used the splicing tools that came with the kit to slice the yellow wire (left hand indicator) and the white Wire (earth) and the same on the other side Green wire (right hand indicator) and the white Wire (Earth). the dash trailer light comes on when i use either the right or left indicator though it doesn't come on when i have the ignition only on no motor running. and the indicator light still flashes. i am at my wits end and not sure what else i could do.
hope some one can tell me what i am going wrong.

would soldering the resistor to the green and white wire help.

[gghaggis]

What car and year is this on?

Cheers,

Gordon

[slug_burner]

help guys

i have read this thread 2 times now and i still can't stop the tail lights from flashing. i am using the Narva LED Load Resistor. i have used the splicing tools that came with the kit to slice the yellow wire (left hand indicator) and the white Wire (earth) and the same on the other side Green wire (right hand indicator) and the white Wire (Earth). the dash trailer light comes on when i use either the right or left indicator though it doesn't come on when i have the ignition only on no motor running. and the indicator light still flashes. i am at my wits end and not sure what else i could do.
hope some one can tell me what i am going wrong.

would soldering the resistor to the green and white wire help.

The only way that your trailer lights are going to stop flashing is if once the resistor fools the system into believing there is a trailer incandescent globe attached the system stops sending the sensing pulse. If your vehicle continues to send sensing pulses all the time then you will need the relays to effectively filter out the short duration sensing pulse and only light up your trailer LEDs when the indicator circuit actually sends the longer duration turning signal (blinking/blinkers).

[coopers1969]

hi Gordon

it is a 2007 D3 and after reading this article for a 3rd time i have worked out where i went wrong i don't have the relays in place the car knows there is a trailer there as the reversing sensors do not engage. I know need to get the relays.

is there a certain type i should get?? and which numbers on the relays need to be wired to which parts of the wiring loom. or is that explained in the instructions that come with the relays.

[slug_burner]

In this photo posted earlier in this thread you can see two relays that look like common garden variety automotive relays similar to the ones found on most vehicles in places like near the fuse board or under the bonnet. The relays are the two black plastic cased components on the LHS of the pic with the cable tie holding them together.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/d3-d4-rrs/73099d1392873464-led-trailer-lights-img_2618.jpg


http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/85396-led-trailer-lights-2.html#post1332534 This link at post #16 has a pdf file with how to connect the relays.

Just in case the coil shown in Fig 2 between connectors number 85 and 86 is shown as a little curly pigtail between the yellow and black wires and the green and black wires, your resistors need to be connected to these two connectors. Pin/connector numbered 30 is the one going to your LED lights. ANd yes the relays normally have the connector numbers either molded into the plastic or stamped on with paint. If you have any problems get back on here and post a photo or describe your problem as best you can with text.

If your up for a bit more reading here is a primer on relays
http://www.mobileinformationlabs.com/How%20To%20Guides/Relays/HowTo-Relays_understanding_Intro.htm

You will need to connect connector/pin 86 to 87 to supply a voltage so that when the relay closes it will supply your LEDs through pin 30.

Hope that helps.

[Crosbo]

Cooper, in case you have already sorted it out, here is the pdf I used. I added the # in red for each connection so that I could easily refer to connections and not make a mistake.

Slug, an FYI, the vehicle continues to send the pulse voltage even after having recognized the attachment of a trailer thru the use of the resistors (or normal incandescent trailer lights). The pulse from the vehicle continues, the installation of the relays merely stops the pulse voltage from reaching the lights.

Have a great week everyone!

[coopers1969]

thanks heaps guys for the additional Info. will get the parts today.
relays
metal box / aluminum
colored wires

then start soldering. Once again thanks to all who have helped now and though out the thread.

will come back and let you know how i get on.

[coopers1969]

worked a treat all sorted thanks heaps to slug burner and every one else. there really is a wealth of knowledge on this site. One thing i am finding is that the resistors don't seam to be getting hot only warm and that is being generous. So even better i guess.

thanks again
and cheers.

[slug_burner]

worked a treat all sorted thanks heaps to slug burner and every one else. there really is a wealth of knowledge on this site. One thing i am finding is that the resistors don't seam to be getting hot only warm and that is being generous. So even better i guess.

thanks again
and cheers.

The temperature the resistors get to is dependent on the how well the heatsink works, this comes down to surface area. If you have a big metal cased resistor that will be the heatsink and connecting to a metal box will help shed heat even more. There should be a wattage rating on the resistors you got.

[coopers1969]

Hi slug Burner

yeah they are the Narva ones which are 21 watts any also have an aluminium heat sink as well i think this is why they don't heat up to much.

[pbhawkin]

HI,
I'm at a bit of a loss as to WHY LR have this issue in the first place? If my trailer lights are flashing (even dimly) or not working and I get pulled over who's fault is it? Mine as the operator of the vehicle or LR for selling a vehicle that doesn't work with trailers but they sell the towing gear and NO mention of issues (I just bought a new D4 after having had a D3 that never worked properly with trailers)? To be honest I am yet to connect my D4 to the trailer with LEDs.
Any one care to offer advice?
It's not like LR can't know of it and haven't had time to address it.


regards
Peter

[discotwinturbo]

HI, I'm at a bit of a loss as to WHY LR have this issue in the first place? If my trailer lights are flashing (even dimly) or not working and I get pulled over who's fault is it? Mine as the operator of the vehicle or LR for selling a vehicle that doesn't work with trailers but they sell the towing gear and NO mention of issues (I just bought a new D4 after having had a D3 that never worked properly with trailers)? To be honest I am yet to connect my D4 to the trailer with LEDs. Any one care to offer advice? It's not like LR can't know of it and haven't had time to address it. regards Peter

My Touareg was the same with led lights in 2008.
VW updated software many years ago, they told me that they did it at the service, and to put the parkers on when I tow....and what do you know.....all LEDs work on all trailers.
So yep...LR can fix the issue.

Brett....

[slug_burner]

HI,
I'm at a bit of a loss as to WHY LR have this issue in the first place? If my trailer lights are flashing (even dimly) or not working and I get pulled over who's fault is it? Mine as the operator of the vehicle or LR for selling a vehicle that doesn't work with trailers but they sell the towing gear and NO mention of issues (I just bought a new D4 after having had a D3 that never worked properly with trailers)? To be honest I am yet to connect my D4 to the trailer with LEDs.
Any one care to offer advice?
It's not like LR can't know of it and haven't had time to address it.


regards
Peter

What started as a feature has now been made into a PIA as a result of LED lights replacing trailer incandescent globes. A small business opportunity results from these sort of things but the window will close soon as manufacturers fix these things in order to remain competitive with the opposition.

[ADMIRAL]

HI,
I'm at a bit of a loss as to WHY LR have this issue in the first place? If my trailer lights are flashing (even dimly) or not working and I get pulled over who's fault is it? Mine as the operator of the vehicle or LR for selling a vehicle that doesn't work with trailers but they sell the towing gear and NO mention of issues (I just bought a new D4 after having had a D3 that never worked properly with trailers)? To be honest I am yet to connect my D4 to the trailer with LEDs.
Any one care to offer advice?
It's not like LR can't know of it and haven't had time to address it.


regards
Peter

The D4 has it's own LED's and I have not had a problem with trailer lights working, either globes or LED's. However if you want to the D4's automatic trailer stability program to activate, you will have to install a resistor ( or globe ) in one indicator circuit on your LED trailer as per the numerous posts on the subject.

[Malc]

Have just bought a D3 and had all the electrics fitted only to take it home and suffer the flickering indicator issue. Thanks to this thread I have now been able to rectify this with a very happy and cheaper outcome.

Thanks to all who provided some great commentary and circuit diagrams.

Cheers

Malc :)

[idrabble]

will get the parts today.
relays
metal box / aluminum
colored wires



Where did you get your junction box from?

Thanks, Ian.

[coopers1969]

Hey Ian

I got mine from jacar though I had to do some drilling and use some water proof connections ( the technical name eludes me). Cost about 24 dollars.

[Mr smokey]

Very quick yea or nay please. Has this issue been resolved with the MY13 D4? Reply I got from a dealer was "oh yes, LED issue no longer a problem"

Trevor

[sniegy]

Nay. To a point.
The LED's no longer flash. But the vehicle still does not recognise the trailer is there as the "trailer" icon will not flash when indicators are used, The rear PDC will continue to operate with a trailer on & the trailer stability program will not operate at it prescribed threshold.

This is also NOT just a Land Rover thing. VW, Porsche, BMW, Audi & some Merc's also have to deal with this.

Cheers

[bertness]

When I considered how much money I spent purchasing my D4 HSE Santorini Black "Black Pack" with Almond interior and my 25ft caravan........
I could have made a "box" to sort the LED situation.....but!!!!!
I decided to go for the Linear Electronics "box".
Okay, it might have cost me a couple of hundred $$....
BUT.....
I know everything works....
The car recognises the trailer, the trailer icon on the dash flashes with the indicators, the car modifies the traction control/trailer sway control.
Rear parking sensors are deactivated....
I have no pulsing of lights....
Etc, etc.....
Just plug it in, no alterations to any wiring....
Never mind maintaining all the LR safety systems as well.
A definite no brainier when all else is considered.
Cheers.
Bob.
(I don't own or work for Linear Electronics, I just bought one of their "boxes")

[Mr smokey]

Many thanks Peter for a simple answer. It was born out when I attached the boat trailer. Lights all worked fine but no recognition of a trailer on board. I still can't fathom why, if the engineers of these (more) expensive marques can get everything else singing and dancing, why they can't figure out a simple trailer fix as a standard fitting. Perhaps I am asking too much for my $90,000 or so :(

Trevor

[Mr smokey]

When I considered how much money I spent purchasing my D4 HSE Santorini Black "Black Pack" with Almond interior and my 25ft caravan........
A definite no brainier when all else is considered.
Cheers.
Bob.
(I don't own or work for Linear Electronics, I just bought one of their "boxes")

Bob, same, same but an SE not HSE. Gunna have to get the LE thingy too before the van arrives.

"Black pack" beoodiful :D:D

[RIN03]

Hi Guys I was just trawling through your little corner (one can always dream) this might be a cheaper easier solution to your problem http://www.aulro.com/afvb/freelander-2/193729-trailer-led-adapter.html

James

[ADMIRAL]

Many thanks Peter for a simple answer. It was born out when I attached the boat trailer. Lights all worked fine but no recognition of a trailer on board. I still can't fathom why, if the engineers of these (more) expensive marques can get everything else singing and dancing, why they can't figure out a simple trailer fix as a standard fitting. Perhaps I am asking too much for my $90,000 or so :(

Trevor

Talk to the trailer manufacturers. They have not changed a thing. You can buy a simple resistor at your local autoparts store for about $20.00 Narva make a neat one. Put this resistor across one of the indicator circuits, and all is fixed. It will only show the trailer icon on the side you have added the resistor to, but the vehicle systems identify you have a trailer from this one circuit, and correct all other programs. The resistor does get hot, so mount it on a metal surface. It will take you 20 minutes using solder, less if you use the agricultural scotch locks. All fixed.......and note, you are making the mod on the trailer.....the vehicle is fine.

[Mr smokey]

Talk to the trailer manufacturers. They have not changed a thing. You can buy a simple resistor at your local autoparts store for about $20.00 Narva make a neat one. Put this resistor across one of the indicator circuits, and all is fixed. e.

Thanks. As I will be swapping between caravan & boat trailer I have decided to go the Linear Electronics route. Whilst considerably more expensive, I would feel it safer than any soldering job I may do. Yep, complete dumb arse when it comes to electrickity.

[idrabble]

I've tried the resistor only route and it just didn't work on my RRS. Jury rigged with a relay and it works so was looking into mounting a pair of relays and resistors into a waterproof box mounted on the trailer but adapting the Ford cable looks promising (transferable between trailers is a plus even though I only ever tow the boat I have now, but you never know)

[ADMIRAL]

I've tried the resistor only route and it just didn't work on my RRS. Jury rigged with a relay and it works so was looking into mounting a pair of relays and resistors into a waterproof box mounted on the trailer but adapting the Ford cable looks promising (transferable between trailers is a plus even though I only ever tow the boat I have now, but you never know)

The resistor only route, is ok for models that have LED lights. If you don't have LED lights, you have two issues to deal with and need relays and resistors. If you make up a portable box, it can be used for any trailer. Seems you are on the right track.

[Grant052]

This is what you want from Triumph Rover Spares in Adelaide

http://www.triumphroverspares.com.au/page.asp?parentid=5&parent2id=15&productid=

[Mr smokey]

Linear Electronics unit arrived (two days after order). Boat trailer connected. Little trailer light flashing. Expense - coupla hundred but expertise & technical knowledge from my end - nil. Effectiveness & reliability - 100%.

[bertness]

Hi Trevor.
How simple was that?
What's 'a couple a hundred' when you know it's going to work......always.
Good, aren't they?
Cheers.
Bob.

[Mr smokey]

Hi Trevor.
How simple was that?
What's 'a couple a hundred' when you know it's going to work......always.
Good, aren't they?
Cheers.
Bob.
Yep Bob. Appear to be well constructed - with couplings made in Germany not China. I tow several boats depending on who I go out with, a dog trailer & soon the caravan so the ability to swap and know it's going to work is a bonus.


Trevor

[Stotty Monster]

Yep Bob. Appear to be well constructed - with couplings made in Germany not China. I tow several boats depending on who I go out with, a dog trailer & soon the caravan so the ability to swap and know it's going to work is a bonus.


Trevor
Trevor,
I thought the same as I tow several types of trailers but I got the one that wires into the trailer harness (left hand panel) within the vehicle and had a switch wired so that I can turn it off and on when required. To me it just took another possible weak link out and now it doesn't matter what or whose trailer I tow the assist will always work, (as long as I switch it on).
Cheers
Stotty

[Mr smokey]

Stottie, agree that the wired in solution would be a neater fit. Coincidentally, when I hooked up the dog trailer I found that the existing lead/connection was (for some reason - probably the difference in tow hitch length from the previous vehicles) just a bee's appendage short at one end. This solved that problem. Appreciate the other poster's solutions & ideas.

Trevor

[idrabble]

I've tried the resistor only route and it just didn't work on my RRS. Jury rigged with a relay and it works so was looking into mounting a pair of relays and resistors into a waterproof box mounted on the trailer but adapting the Ford cable looks promising (transferable between trailers is a plus even though I only ever tow the boat I have now, but you never know)

Tried the Ford cable on my 2005 RRS, doesn't work. Back to the drawing board.

[Sadie]

Hi guys.

I've just listed a Linear Designs module for sale on here in the Marketplace if anyone is interested...

Steve

[Mr smokey]

As mentioned. Anyone after a quick reliable fix, the LD unit works well.

[Mr smokey]

Can anyone tell me if the issue has been resolved on the MY14 model. Mate picked his up the other day, was told by the auto elec that wired for the caravan that it was no longer an issue and that a straight forward wiring was all that was now required for his full LED caravan. He does not have a little "trailer attached" light blinking with the van attached. So, either he has no need for an adapter as the problem is now non-existent and the "trailer attached" blinker isn't there/no longer flashes to indicate recognition or he has been given a bum steer and the car is not recognising his van.

Over the weekend I am going to attach the van with my LD unit and see if it makes any difference.

A bit urgent as he towed Geelong to Morwell possibly without the car trailer assist and didn't know.

[sniegy]

LED Adaptor module IS still required.
Dead giveaway is the trailer Icon NOT flashing.

Been given' a Bum steer i see.:mad:

[Mr smokey]

Sneigy, I am tickled pink that you replied so quickly. That's what I thought but easiest way to prove it is by connecting my adapter and flicking on the indicators.

Incidentally, just what is he missing out on by not having the van recognised bearing in mind that I am gunna have to show him this post tomorrow. His van is fitted with ESC.

[sniegy]

The vehicle's "Trailer Stability Assist" will not be working at its proper threshold & will be working as an "Unhooked" vehicle.

The park sensors will annoy him every time he selects reverse.

His indicators will not flash in unison with the pretty trailer icon ;)

Cheers

[Mr smokey]

Yep, that's what I told him. But that's just me sayin it :((

[Grappler]

Not sure about newer models, but from what you say, there may also be an effect to the feature that disables automatic height adjustment when selecting certain traction options. This wont work if its doesn't sense a trailer.

[sniegy]

Not sure about newer models, but from what you say, there may also be an effect to the feature that disables automatic height adjustment when selecting certain traction options. This wont work if its doesn't sense a trailer.

Correct. Locks you out of Automatic height adjustment in Terrain Response Mode.

[wbowner]

As an owner of a MY14 D4 I can confirm what Sniegy says.

I has to get the LED module installed to get the green trailer icon blinking.

I got the one installed into the car which can be turned off/on.

Richarc

[Mr smokey]

Ta guys. He is now convinced. Apparently his sparky was aware of the issues for older models but believed (incorrectly) that it was not an issue with the new ones. I doubt the traction options will be an issue for him with the size/type of van he has though. Pretty much good road based only :)

[idrabble]

I got the one installed into the car which can be turned off/on.

Can I ask why you would need to turn it off?

thanks, Ian.

[sniegy]

Turn ON for LED lights on trailer.
Turn OFF for Normal incandescent globes so not overload the indicator circuit i can only assume.

I also have this fitted to mine.

[wbowner]

Turn ON for LED lights on trailer.
Turn OFF for Normal incandescent globes so not overload the indicator circuit i can only assume.

I also have this fitted to mine.

When on the car believes a trailer is attached, even if one is not, ie the great flashing trailer appears even if no trailer attached.

Not sure if it makes a big difference though as I have forgot to turn it off a few times

One funny thing is that if you do not turn the LED module on then both your van indicators will go off at the same time when you indicate, helps you realize you forgot to turn it on when doing pre departure testing.

[JonW]

Just out of interest, for the D4's, what about a 22uF 16v capacitor wired to a small wattage 6ohm resistor. As the initial sense pulse is a short one off, the cap will not charge and hence current will flow for a brief period during the pulse to ground through the resistor. When the blinkers are activated the extended on time of the blinkers will charge the cap before the resistor overheats thereby stopping current flow to the resistor.
Cap charge bleed off could be handled by a 50k ohm resistor across the cap leads. Due to resistance in series being the sum of all resistances, only when the cap is discharged would high levels of current flow albeit briefly.
Year 9 electronics theory at it's best.

Seems like this might solve both the space and overheating issues of the large load resistor.

[cjc_td5]

I need to wire up a Load Resistor setup for my new MY14 D4 so that the vehicle can be used with my boat trailer which has LED lights. I tow a variety of different trailers so I want the LED modification to be vehicle based rather than trailer based, and also the trailer gets dunked in the ocean so I don't want to tamper with the sealed wiring on it.

The trailer wiring appears easy enough to access, from the connector plugs inside the cover on the LHS of the cargo area. I have a couple of options for wiring in a load resistor that I need some advice on.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=83369&stc=1&d=1410079902
OPTION 1 basically placed the load resistor in parallel with the turn indicator wiring. Would this draw a load sufficient for the car to detect a trailer being connected?

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=83370&stc=1&d=1410079902
If Option 1 won't draw a load, OPTION2 just wires it in series so all current goes through it. Would this place undesirable load on the trailer wiring?

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=83371&stc=1&d=1410079902
OPTION 3 places a relay into the tail-light circuit that would activate then the trailer is connected and lights turned on. (I normally travel with lights on anyway.) The load resistor goes directly to ground and places no additional load through the trailer wiring. This may be over-complicating things though???

Your expertise would be appreciated... :D:D

Cheers,

[Graeme]

Option 1 will achieve nothing as the resistance of the resistor is far greater than that of the section of wire so the current will flow along the wire, not the resistor.

Option 2 will achieve nothing because LED lights draw so little current.

Option 3 - why not just fit the load resistor without going via relay contacts? When there's no blinker power there's no current flowing through the resistor anyway.

[Graeme]

Just out of interest, for the D4's, what about a 22uF 16v capacitor wired to a small wattage 6ohm resistor. As the initial sense pulse is a short one off, the cap will not charge and hence current will flow for a brief period during the pulse to ground through the resistor. When the blinkers are activated the extended on time of the blinkers will charge the cap before the resistor overheats thereby stopping current flow to the resistor.
The low wattage resister will stop conducting because it will disintegrate/burn/catch fire from getting too hot!

[shanegtr]

I don't think your option 1 and 3 will work as the current will take the path of least resistance and bypass the resistor. Option 2 may work ok with LEDs, but with trailers with globe lights it may affect them. It's not something I've tried over the years so I've no idea how it would go in the real world.

[Graeme]

Option 3 will still result in current flowing through the resistor. How would 2 globes light from the 1 power source otherwise?

Option2 used with incandescant globes will dull the globes and the resistor will still heat depending on how many globes are being powered, just not get as hot as if across to ground.

[Meken]

When on the car believes a trailer is attached, even if one is not, ie the great flashing trailer appears even if no trailer attached.



Not sure if it makes a big difference though as I have forgot to turn it off a few times



One funny thing is that if you do not turn the LED module on then both your van indicators will go off at the same time when you indicate, helps you realize you forgot to turn it on when doing pre departure testing.


By design?

[Meken]

If it's a D4 then a 21w load resistor wired in parallel (ie one end attached to indicator +ve and other to ground) should make it recognise a trailer attached. Beware those load resistors get extremely hot!) If you wire something into the car - the car will always think a trailer is connected thus turning off the rear parking sensors, changing the learning / changing traits of the transmission and who knows what else ? Why not cough up the cash and buy an led module that is the In car mount with the switch to turn on (trailer attached) or off when no trailer. Search led module - the the led module one. & pulsebusta - also come with a warranty :)

[cjc_td5]

OK, I have had a brain wave. Correct me if I am wrong, but I assume that what the D4 is actually sensing is current draw from the trailer, not resistance? A LED light can be considered to have almost infinite resistance (& therefore very low current draw)?


Option 1 will achieve nothing as the resistance of the resistor is far greater than that of the section of wire so the current will flow along the wire, not the resistor.

That was my gut feeling also. I assumed that the LED had negligible resistance when I originally posted, so I can see your point now.


Option 2 will achieve nothing because LED lights draw so little current.

The LED has high resistance so draws negligible current, so the load resistor is not going to help. OK I can see that now...


Option 3 - why not just fit the load resistor without going via relay contacts? When there's no blinker power there's no current flowing through the resistor anyway.

If I just fitted the resistor straight to ground, then it would work whenever the indicators were used regardless of whether a trailer was connected, therefore invoking the D4 trailer modes etc. when there was no trailer connected.


If it's a D4 then a 21w load resistor wired in parallel (ie one end attached to indicator +ve and other to ground) should make it recognise a trailer attached. Beware those load resistors get extremely hot!) If you wire something into the car - the car will always think a trailer is connected thus turning off the rear parking sensors, changing the learning / changing traits of the transmission and who knows what else ? Why not cough up the cash and buy an led module that is the In car mount with the switch to turn on (trailer attached) or off when no trailer. Search led module - the the led module one. & pulsebusta - also come with a warranty :)

A switching mechanism is required to avoid the vehicle thinking there is a trailer connected all of the time. The "off the shelf" modules use a manual switch, which I am trying to design around as I know I will either forget to switch it on off all of the time, which will annoy me.

[LandyAndy]

I rekon its **** poor that we should be having to sort this out.Its a problem for LRA.MOST new trailers now are LED,the D4 should be able to cope with it.Will be discussing this with my dealer next week,especially since they told me my vehicle is LED friendly when asked at delivery:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
Andrew

[Graeme]

That was my gut feeling also but how come the wiring circuit on the Narva packaging is as follows?The Narva diagram has the resistor in parallel with the LED light, not in the power wire in series with the LED light - a big difference. The Narva circuit has the resistor between power and earth through which power will always travel.

I didn't intend to suggest that the resistor be permanently wired without the use of a switch, only that the relay was superfluous.


My 2010 D4 leaves the reversing sensors disabled if the trailer plug is disconnected until the ignition is turned off then on again. If there was a way to tell if the whole vehicle still thought the trailer was attached (eg gbox for gear shift patterns and ABS for trailer stability, if ABS actually uses a trailer attached indication in its trailer stability assist logic of which I'm unsure) then I could build a module that only sends the first blinker pulse through a load resistor to setup the trailer attached condition but thereafter exclude the load resistor from the circuit so that it doesn't get hot and also doesn't draw current so as to lessen the battery and alternator loads. Note that I have no desire to have the instrument indicator flashing by virtue of a dummy load resistor fitted in the D4 as its not doing its intended job of showing that the trailer light is working. However I don't know of a way to determine if the whole vehicle is remembering that the trailer was attached but it could be only the parking sensor module that is not clearing the condition, in which case a once-only module is not going to do the job. Perhaps Faultmate shows it in the gearbox status - I might have look when BBS fix their latest s/w to allow access to the TCU. Furthermore later model vehicles could use different logic in any/all ecus so something that works on mine can't be guaranteed to work on others.

[SBD4]

That was my gut feeling also but how come the wiring circuit on the Narva packaging is as follows?
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=83387&stc=1&d=1410090462

Surely using your analogy that would mean that the LED globe would take all of the current and the resistor none?



OK I think I understand that...



If I just fitted the resistor straight to ground, then it would work whenever the indicators were used regardless of whether a trailer was connected, therefore invoking the D4 trailer modes etc. when there was no trailer connected.



A switching mechanism is required to avoid the vehicle thinking there is a trailer connected all of the time. The "off the shelf" modules use a manual switch, which I am trying to design around as I know I will either forget to switch it on off all of the time, which will annoy me.

Graemes statement and the nava diagram are correct. What you are over looking is that the LED light array("globe") does not present the same electrical characteristics as an ordinary cable. Cable = low resistance (very) and the LED Array= high resistance(therefore low current draw). what you need to do is put the resistor across the terminals of the array(per nava pic) to provide an additional (not alternate) low resistance path for current to flow through. Current will take both paths (hence parallel), small current through LEDs and and high current through the resistor. With the resistor allowing higher current flow the car now sees the trailer.

In your option 1, all the current still needs to go through the high resistance LEDs thus not changing the nature of the circuit and the fact that the resistor is placed in parallel with wire means that you are effectively joining the two ends of the resistor together so no current will flow through it - which was Graemes point.

With respect, if you don't understand these basics then do yourself a favour and get a pulse buster if you want something in car that you can switch on and off.

[Meken]

So what about the narva 12pin flat sockets that have an inbuilt reed switch on the flap - you could use the reed switch in lieu of a manual switch - open the flap to plug in the trailer and the reed switch closes the circuit with the resistor in it ?

[SBD4]

I rekon its **** poor that we should be having to sort this out.Its a problem for LRA.MOST new trailers now are LED,the D4 should be able to cope with it.Will be discussing this with my dealer next week,especially since they told me my vehicle is LED friendly when asked at delivery:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
Andrew

Andy,it's not only an issue for Land Rovers, It's an issue for any vehicle that monitors these circuits. That's why companies like nava make those resistors.

I would say that some time in the future there will be a menu option to allow you to tell the car what sort of trailer is attached and... if we are really lucky, auto-sense it.

[cjc_td5]

To those who may be confused by my post #211, after I posted it I realised that it was wrong and edited it. Whilst doing that Graeme & SBD4 replied in posts #213 & #214 to my original post.

I now realise that the LED lights can be considered to have high resistance and therefore low current draw (Ohm's law). Options 1 & 2 are obviously not going to work then, so I need to work out a switching method for Option 3. The most simple method is a manual switch, the engineer in me is still looking for a "better" way. :):)

[ADMIRAL]

Andy,it's not only an issue for Land Rovers, It's an issue for any vehicle that monitors these circuits. That's why companies like nava make those resistors.

I would say that some time in the future there will be a menu option to allow you to tell the car what sort of trailer is attached and... if we are really lucky, auto-sense it.

.............and it's about time the trailer manufacturers came to the party.

[Graeme]

So what about the narva 12pin flat sockets that have an inbuilt reed switch on the flap - you could use the reed switch in lieu of a manual switch - open the flap to plug in the trailer and the reed switch closes the circuit with the resistor in it ?
This is a good idea but to signal the presence of the trailer to the vehicle's electronics rather than by connecting dummy globes/resistors.

[LandyAndy]

Im going the dealer direction first,want it in writing how I deal with the issue if they cant fix it.
After that,our new spannerman at work is also an auto sparkie.He has a few ideas how to get around it.After explaining how I believe the D4 system works it seems the switched vehicle based resistor is the way to go.
Andrew

[Grappler]

Im going the dealer direction first,want it in writing how I deal with the issue if they cant fix it.
After that,our new spannerman at work is also an auto sparkie.He has a few ideas how to get around it.After explaining how I believe the D4 system works it seems the switched vehicle based resistor is the way to go.
Andrew

If you dont get any joy from landrover , you are welcome to checkout the one I made based on Colin Pedersons design. (cant find the post). Its worked perfectly for a few years now on my RRS- not reallyneeded on the Defeneders

If you are down Margs way, I can show it to you and try it on your new D4 my led trailer

It plugs between the trailer socket of the vehicle and the trailer plug. It could easily be adapted to vehicle mounting and switched on when you're trailing leds

[LandyAndy]

If you dont get any joy from landrover , you are welcome to checkout the one I made based on Colin Pedersons design. (cant find the post). Its worked perfectly for a few years now on my RRS- not reallyneeded on the Defeneders

If you are down Margs way, I can show it to you and try it on your new D4 my led trailer

It plugs between the trailer socket of the vehicle and the trailer plug. It could easily be adapted to vehicle mounting and switched on when you're trailing leds

Funnily enough Deb and I discussed a trip to Margeret River last week.If it happens I will send you a pm.
Cheers
Andrew

[BJM]

they told me my vehicle is LED friendly when asked at delivery:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

They told me the same thing. I went back to the dealer the same as you and they told me "yeah, most of the euro cars have that problem" but offered no solution.

I couldn't wait for them to solve it for me so I went and bought the off the shelf switched module.

The idea of modifying the trailer with resistors did appeal but I decided I would never be able to tow any other trailer with LED lights unless I fixed the problem.

I spent a few days playing around with the Ford Ranger LED trailer light cable fix but just couldn't make it work. It's an adapter cable that goes between the car and trailer and has the resistors in built into the plug. Unfortunately for us the resistors aren't the correct value...

[Meken]

They told me the same thing. I went back to the dealer the same as you and they told me "yeah, most of the euro cars have that problem" but offered no solution.



I couldn't wait for them to solve it for me so I went and bought the off the shelf switched module.



The idea of modifying the trailer with resistors did appeal but I decided I would never be able to tow any other trailer with LED lights unless I fixed the problem.



I spent a few days playing around with the Ford Ranger LED trailer light cable fix but just couldn't make it work. It's an adapter cable that goes between the car and trailer and has the resistors in built into the plug. Unfortunately for us the resistors aren't the correct value...


Led module makes same thing a "shunt" box that plugs into the socket then trailer plugs into the box - easy no modding car - $285 drive on and enjoy
http://www.linearelectronicdesign.com/

[BMKal]

Just a thought .................

On the back of the D4, there are two trailer plugs - a black one and a white one (assume the RRS is the same). I've never used the white one for anything, and in fact was thinking of removing it and mounting an Anderson plug in its place.

Why not mount a second "Australian" spec trailer plug where the white one is now - you could wire one of the two plugs up with resistors for when towing trailers with LED lights, and leave the other as original. Then simply a matter of plugging in whatever trailer you are towing to the appropriate socket.

I can't see the point of the trailer mounted box of tricks - it addresses the problem for that trailer only - but is limited in its value. Perhaps the same or similar "box" mounted up under the rear bumper of the Disco and wired up to a second trailer socket would be a better option. ;)

[cjc_td5]

Just a thought .................

On the back of the D4, there are two trailer plugs - a black one and a white one (assume the RRS is the same). I've never used the white one for anything, and in fact was thinking of removing it and mounting an Anderson plug in its place.

Why not mount a second "Australian" spec trailer plug where the white one is now - you could wire one of the two plugs up with resistors for when towing trailers with LED lights, and leave the other as original. Then simply a matter of plugging in whatever trailer you are towing to the appropriate socket.

I can't see the point of the trailer mounted box of tricks - it addresses the problem for that trailer only - but is limited in its value. Perhaps the same or similar "box" mounted up under the rear bumper of the Disco and wired up to a second trailer socket would be a better option. ;)

Yep BMKal, I have considered the same thing, replacing the white plug with a Australian flat style plug so I don't have to run an adapter off the round black plug. I hate running the adapter plugs as they are just another set of contacts to go corrode etc, they throw additional weight onto the plug in rough conditions, its another thing for me to loose, and just look "temporary".

[BJM]

Led module makes same thing a "shunt" box that plugs into the socket then trailer plugs into the box - easy no modding car - $285 drive on and enjoy
Linear Electronic Design | Home (http://www.linearelectronicdesign.com/)

I already fitted the wire in Linear Electronics box because I didn't like the idea of having that box hanging in the air between the car and trailer and I wanted to be able to use multiple trailers without having to switch over the box.

It took me less the 1/2hr to hook up the box and it's not held in with a giant piece of velcro so I can pull it out whenever/ if ever I need to.

[Meken]

Just a thought .................



On the back of the D4, there are two trailer plugs - a black one and a white one (assume the RRS is the same). I've never used the white one for anything, and in fact was thinking of removing it and mounting an Anderson plug in its place.



Why not mount a second "Australian" spec trailer plug where the white one is now - you could wire one of the two plugs up with resistors for when towing trailers with LED lights, and leave the other as original. Then simply a matter of plugging in whatever trailer you are towing to the appropriate socket.



I can't see the point of the trailer mounted box of tricks - it addresses the problem for that trailer only - but is limited in its value. Perhaps the same or similar "box" mounted up under the rear bumper of the Disco and wired up to a second trailer socket would be a better option. ;)


If you google linear electronic design this has all been thought out.
They have available an in-car version which taps onto the trailer wiring before the socket - it has a switch to turn it on when you plug in an unrecognised trailer and off the rest of the time. They also have a variety of unconnected boxes with differing plugs & sockets on each end and they have them with tails only so you can put your own plugs & sockets on. They also now have one that taps onto the trailer wiring and is permanently attached to trailer.

[Meken]

Just a thought .................



On the back of the D4, there are two trailer plugs - a black one and a white one (assume the RRS is the same). I've never used the white one for anything, and in fact was thinking of removing it and mounting an Anderson plug in its place.



Why not mount a second "Australian" spec trailer plug where the white one is now - you could wire one of the two plugs up with resistors for when towing trailers with LED lights, and leave the other as original. Then simply a matter of plugging in whatever trailer you are towing to the appropriate socket.



I can't see the point of the trailer mounted box of tricks - it addresses the problem for that trailer only - but is limited in its value. Perhaps the same or similar "box" mounted up under the rear bumper of the Disco and wired up to a second trailer socket would be a better option. ;)


Unless you have some switches to disconnect the "Australian" socket the car will see the resistance and think there is a trailer attached all the time even when there isn't. This will affect car systems such as transmission changes and learning mode, stability control, off-road height (don't think you can select with trailer attached)

[Epic]

I took out the white plug and had a 12 pin wired in. I also made a resistor plug to go in the 7 pin black socket. Cheap and effective. 83488

[cjc_td5]

I have fitted a load resistor inside the rear cargo area as described in my post linked below...

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/204873-introducing-lance-2.html#post2225314

It seems to work as required, with the rear sensors being deactivated when required. I have a switch that I have to remember to use when required when when hooking up, but it is permanently mounted and not trailer specific, and only cost about $20 all up.

Cheers,

[CraigA]

Hi guys,
Not sure about what has been covered in all 24 pages but ...
I believe d3 and d4s are the same sensing circuit for trailers. They will sense a trailer if the trailer blinkers give a load of about 10 ohms. In my d4 I have put load resistors across the trailer led lights and have no problems with the disco sensing the trailer.
By putting them at the back of the trailer (NOT IN THE CAR) you keep the inherent protection built into the disco in play. Otherwise you can't tell if you have forgotten to plug the trailer in, cable is broken, etc.

FYI, you don't need relays and I used 2x 18ohm 10watt resistors connected in parallel on each blinker. Connected from the blinker wire to ground (or just across each led light). 4 resistors in total ... about $2.00!!

[BJM]

It's all swings and round abouts... what happens when you want to tow another trailer that hasn't been modified? I chose to go for the module because my trailer is often used by a mate with an old hilux, he doesn't need the lights modified. I also wanted to be able to tow other trailers when the need arises (ie bringing home a load of bark for the garden using the trailer from the local garden centre).

If you've got $2 worth of resistors then I'd say yours are too low wattage. Given you are putting at least 12v to your resistors you would want a minimum of 8-10w resistors (assuming 18ohm). 50c each won't buy you resistors with that sort of power handling capability.

[gghaggis]

Hi guys,
Not sure about what has been covered in all 24 pages but ...
I believe d3 and d4s are the same sensing circuit for trailers.

No, the D3 isn't the same, and requires the relay approach.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Meken]

No, the D3 isn't the same, and requires the relay approach.



Cheers,



Gordon


Yes it seems the engineers worked out the more efficient & less hassle some method of pulsing the light circuits on driver door close only - rather than continuously. Remove the need for the relay - relay is to prevent the twinkling - it doesn't change the "sensing"

[LandyAndy]

Yes it seems the engineers worked out the more efficient & less hassle some method of pulsing the light circuits on driver door close only - rather than continuously. Remove the need for the relay - relay is to prevent the twinkling - it doesn't change the "sensing"

We have just had issues with our Mercedes Actross prime mover getting a flat battery when parked for a few days.The cause,a broken wire in the trailer plug.The ECU kept looking for the trailer because it sensed side lights but no tail lights.Perhaps the drivers door switching the hunt for red october is a bloody good thing;);););););)
Andrew

[CraigA]

It's all swings and round abouts... what happens when you want to tow another trailer that hasn't been modified? I chose to go for the module because my trailer is often used by a mate with an old hilux, he doesn't need the lights modified. I also wanted to be able to tow other trailers when the need arises (ie bringing home a load of bark for the garden using the trailer from the local garden centre).
If your LED light trailer has load resistors on it, it won't affect your mates car. If you use a "loaner", chances are they won't have LEDs and you won't have a problem.

If you've got $2 worth of resistors then I'd say yours are too low wattage. Given you are putting at least 12v to your resistors you would want a minimum of 8-10w resistors (assuming 18ohm). 50c each won't buy you resistors with that sort of power handling capability.
No, as I stated, they are 10W .. giving 20W of power handling from the parallel 18ohm resistors. They dissipate about 18Watts but its only for a short and intermittent time so should be reliable enough. Bolt them to a heatsink if you like. Yes, I paid about 50 cents each for them. Jaycar sells them for about $1.60.
Cheers

[NTDisco3]

Does anyone know if the linear electronic design 'in car mount' can be installed with a Redarc Tow Pro system and if so, would it go before or after the brake controller?

cheers

[BJM]

I have both fitted to my 2014 Disco4. The TowPro was fitted by the dealer when we purchased the car and I fitted the Linear Electronics unit myself so I really have no idea which is before which....but, it shouldn't matter because they operate on different wires so shouldn't affect one another.

[Tombie]

Does anyone know if the linear electronic design 'in car mount' can be installed with a Redarc Tow Pro system and if so, would it go before or after the brake controller?

cheers


Neither..

Different circuits for different purposes :)

[Mr smokey]

I have the remote plug & a Redarc. Totally seperate porpoises.

[sniegy]

I too have a Red Arc electric trailer brake controller & an in car LED adaptor module.

Both Excellent units.

Cheers

[Mossy]

Fitted a Narva resistor ($13.00) to the r/h trailer turn signal tonight. Now our MY14 D4 recognises a trailer and the reversing beepers don't work in reverse and the trailer indicator on the dash lights up when the r/h indicator is used, though not on the l/h indicator, but I can live with this.
Cheers Mossy
PS Fitting the brake controller tomorrow, will let you know how things go.

[Mossy]

Fitted the Redarc Tow Pro today, took me a leisurely 5 hrs.
I fixed the control box on the side of the dash, lets see if I can attach a pic, just in from the light switch where I mounted the control knob.




https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/11/883.jpg (http://s997.photobucket.com/user/50Tbird/media/PB080426_zpscccf13bf.jpg.html)


All pretty straight forward thanks to the instructions here.
Connected it to the van and all the lights work.
Tomorrow I'll take it for a drive and calibrate the electric brakes.
Cheers Mossy

[Mossy]

Oops, meant to post this on the Electric trailer brake thread.
Cheers Mossy

[sjdavidson]

cheers guys camper now works perfectly, get the parts from jaycar if ya can, it was about 1/3 of the price compared to super cheap.

[theins]

G'day, just thought I'd point out that this continues to be an issue... even with brand new MY15 D4's....

[Tombie]

G'day, just thought I'd point out that this continues to be an issue... even with brand new MY15 D4's....


It's not an "issue" just a behavior that is inherent in almost all modern vehicles.

It doesn't make the vehicle any less safe to not have a resistor/box in place - it just won't cancel/engage additional features.

[theins]

My comment was not meant to be a reference to the safety of the car (though my understanding is that the anti-sway function will not work), but rather an alert that this "Behaviour" is still present in the latest generation. Given that this is not a new "Behaviour" I would have expected that a solution would be embedded in the car by now, rather than having to install a workaround later....

[discotwinturbo]

Software can be written to correct it.

My Touareg was the same....needed a pulse buster. It's a 2008 model. In about 2010 VW told me they did a software upgrade and this should fix it...and it did. I do need to have the parkers or normal lights on, and they said it was for safety.

Ford has fixed the Ranger issue, but think it needed a bit more than software. Did not take them long.

LR could fix it swiftly if they chose to.

Brett....