Q for Mulgo (&/or HoHars): Lifting roof on converted 110s

[spudboy]

Hey Mulgo - I see from your website that amongst other things you do "roof conversions" on Landies, so you can stand up in the back.

You've gone for the pivoting axis in the front/rear style, as opposed to something like a "Doormobile", where the roof opens in the left/right style (if that clumsy word picture makes sense):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/08/1014.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Did you consider doing your roofs in the Doormobile way, and was it too complicated, or did you think that the angled roof was a better solution?

I think the Ho Hars have a roof on their red 130 the same way too, so perhaps they might chime in with their thought on this.

Thanks
David

[jerryd]

I'm a great fan of the Landrover Dormobile, I owned a couple when I lived in the uk :) I've found two in Australia for sale and on both occasions missed out by a couple of minutes :mad:

I have contacted "dormobile" in the uk about shipping a roof out, but the last I heard the guy had gone on a walkabout and somebody else has now taken over to pick up the pieces.

There is also this place - DEF 110SW/CSW "DORMOBILE" Convert (http://www.cleveland.co.jp/newcar/acodion/4dr/) but they do not seem to answer emails :eek: I'd love to get hold of a roof and convert my county.

[Ranga]

Maybe these guys can be convinced to make one? recreational vehicle conversions - exploz pty.ltd. - australia (http://www.exploz.com.au/)

[Mulgo]

Hello David,

Thanks for that post.

It all depends what you want from such a converted roof. The one shown in your picture will most probably not give you the possibility to sleep on the 'upper' level. It will however give you full standing height.

There are a few reasons why we hinge our pop up roofs at the front and lift them at the rear:
- Strength: You are able to carry 'stuff' on your roof.
- Design: We re-use the standard LR roof. Our Pop Top perfectly blends into the overall design of the Defender.
- Sleeping: With the hinge at the front you will get a bed of roughly 2 meters in length and still have about 55cm at the back.

In case you would like a roof hinged at the side of the vehicle I would actually go one step further and flip it open 180° (with fitting two 'legs'). This way you would get full standing height in the rear of the Defender as well as a bed in the roof (which open, is inside out at the side of your vehicle). Still no capacity to carry stuff on the roof thought. Sketch as an illustration of the idea:
18092

That's the great thing about Defender's you can do almost anything - I often say that the sky is the limit.

Cheers,
Daniel

[Mulgo]

Maybe these guys can be convinced to make one? recreational vehicle conversions - exploz pty.ltd. - australia (http://www.exploz.com.au/)


Almost certainly...! :wasntme:

[spudboy]

Thanks for that info Daniel. I hadn't thought about going the whole 180 degrees opening, but that's not a bad idea! You'd just have to secure all your bedding somehow so it didn't fall down when you closed things up.

I like the simplicity of 'your' style, with a single hinge at the front, but you lose a bit of headroom towards the front of the vehicle. You have mostly got something solid above your head which won't leak for the full length of the vehicle, and it would be better insulated as well to keep heat in/out. Easier to attach things like solar panels and still be able to lift it easily too.

The side hinge gives headroom all the way along, but I can see the fabric being more prone to leaks and flapping in the wind more, plus not as insulated.

I've bought myself on old Series III roof for $250 (came with a safari roof attached too) which I want to fabricate into a hinged roof for the back of my 130 canopy, so just thinking about the best way to design it.

Regards
David

[Mulgo]

No Worries, David. Always happy to help.

Send me a photo of your Defender (side view) and I will have a look how I would tackle this.

Cheers,
Daniel

[The ho har's]

David

Our roof in on the camper which we take off the defender when not travelling....we hinged it that way so we could carry our solar panel and also put "stuff" on top if we needed to
here is a pick

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/04/516.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/1298.jpg


Mrs ho har:angel:

[spudboy]

Mungo - I haven't got a great photo of it on the web. I'll try and organise a better one, but here is something to give you an idea of what I am talking about:
http://gestaltn.ipower.com/Defender/Defender130.JPG

[spudboy]

Here's some mock ups of the canopy I've drawn with Sketch Up.

[The ho har's]

so where will you put the bed??


Mrs ho har:angel:

[Ranga]

In case you would like a roof hinged at the side of the vehicle I would actually go one step further and flip it open 180° (with fitting two 'legs'). This way you would get full standing height in the rear of the Defender as well as a bed in the roof (which open, is inside out at the side of your vehicle)

This is a brilliant idea! To go one step further, how about having a bed on both sides - full size on the side that flips over, 3/4 size above the wagon? That way, a while family can sleep up top, and the missing 1/4 could be for access.

I've just replaced my pop-top troopy for a 110, as we now have kids and couldn't really utilise the pop-top anymore. Also, it wasn't a Land Rover :p

I'll try and draw something in case I'm not being clear.

[Mulgo]

Here's some mock ups of the canopy I've drawn with Sketch Up.

I am using Sketch up too - do you mind sending me the file so that I can have a little play around.

Do I understand it correctly you want to access the rear through the back window of the 130 cab?

Cheers,
Daniel

[Mulgo]

This is a brilliant idea! To go one step further, how about having a bed on both sides - full size on the side that flips over, 3/4 size above the wagon? That way, a while family can sleep up top, and the missing 1/4 could be for access.

I've just replaced my pop-top troopy for a 110, as we now have kids and couldn't really utilise the pop-top anymore. Also, it wasn't a Land Rover :p

I'll try and draw something in case I'm not being clear.

Depending on how tall your kids are you could also make the kids bed across the front seat rows, this way you would not loose the standing height in the back.
If it is bad weather, put the kids to bed, pull the curtain and you can still sit in the back and have a cuppa.

18109

Cheers,
Daniel

[Ranga]

Depending on how tall your kids are you could also make the kids bed across the front seat rows, this way you would not loose the standing height in the back.
If it is bad weather, put the kids to bed, pull the curtain and you can still sit in the back and have a cuppa.

18109

Cheers,
Daniel

Not a bad idea also. I should have mention the back of the troopy I had wasn't used as living area. The pop-top was only to allow sleeping up the top without unpacking the gear, that was stored in the back. Can you let me know (PM if you like) what sort of money ballpark it would be to create a fliptop?

[spudboy]

so where will you put the bed??


Mrs ho har:angel:

The bed is hinged into the lifting roof. When the top is up, it hinges up with the lid, but you can pull it down for sleeping. So in the day, it is up out of the way, and at night it lies flat.

Here's some more snapshots which show it a bit better:

[spudboy]

This is a brilliant idea! To go one step further, how about having a bed on both sides - full size on the side that flips over, 3/4 size above the wagon? That way, a while family can sleep up top, and the missing 1/4 could be for access.


I'd rather not sleep on my own!! My missus is very snuggly :D, so beds on both sides (like the Doormobile design) doesn't grab me so much.

With the dimensions of my canopy, I have to get access to the bed from the side, probably standing on the seats to get up into bed.

[spudboy]

I am using Sketch up too - do you mind sending me the file so that I can have a little play around.

Do I understand it correctly you want to access the rear through the back window of the 130 cab?

Cheers,
Daniel

Very happy to send you the SketchUp file. I'd post it here if I knew how, but it is 450K, so not sure if that is too big.

And yes, planning to access from the crew cab into the canopy (it has doors on the sides too, but would be good to go from the cabin straight through to the canopy).

PM me your email, and I'll send you the .SKP file

[spudboy]

OK - Inc has told me how to post this.

However I posted it in another thread to test it, and now I can't post it here (says it is a duplicate), so unfortunately you'll have to link to it here: http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/86418-can-i-post-non-photo-file-sketchup-forum.html

[Mulgo]

OK - Inc has told me how to post this.

However I posted it in another thread to test it, and now I can't post it here (says it is a duplicate), so unfortunately you'll have to link to it here: http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/86418-can-i-post-non-photo-file-sketchup-forum.html


Got it - thanks. An thought I post it into this thread:
18114

A few questions - just to clarify a few things:
- What are the requirements for the Bed (size)?
- Do you intend to cook inside?
- Gas?
- Watertank (how big)?
- I could not find where you wanted the door?
- That 'box' underneath, should that be a drawer?
- 2350 x 1800 - are these your maximum measurements?
- Any idea what material you want to use?

Cheers,
Daniel (aka Mulgo)

[spudboy]

Hi Mungo - answers to questions as follows:

I tried 2 sized beds in Sketchup, and the king single is probably the best fit. A std queen size will fit (you will find my mock up of that off to the side of the canopy in the SketchUp file) but doesn't give very much room to actually get in/out of bed.

No gas. All appliances will be Coleman dual fuel. I have an Engel vertical fridge, so that will be battery powered. Am planning to cook inside (vent with small fan for fumes/etc).

The dimensions of the canopy are as is. I don't want to modify it, it would be too much work. I could extend it upwards a bit, but the floorplan size would require major re-work.

The opening at the front of the canopy will lead into the cabin. I will remove the rear window of the LR cabin, and cut the back to make a sufficient size opening, although I can see a bit of crawling might be required! To join the canopy to the cabin, I will make up a flange and join with rubber strip to allow canopy and cabin to have a bit of movement.

Material - probably aluminium for weight. Rivets/Sikaflex to hold it together. I've got a TIG welder, but am concerned that corrugations + welded joints may come adrift.

The 'box' underneath is a hugely long drawer, in a separate compartment. I will need to fashion some way of getting things out of the end of it, in drawers probably. I have a couple of waffle boards that will go down there. Am thinking that all the 'dirty' stuff will go here, like snatch straps, oily spares, campfire tripod, etc.

I want to put a water tank underneath the canopy. I have enough space for around 120L, but might divide this into 2 compartments of grey water and drinking water.

http://gestaltn.ipower.com/Defender/CanopyOff130.JPG

Any more question, just ask away :)

[The ho har's]

ok so your bed goes up like ours does and we have a small ladder to climb in:)

Have you seen the thread on our camper build?

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/61226-ho-hars-camper-build.html


Mrs ho har:angel:

[spudboy]

Sure have. That's one of the threads that's inspired me to think that I can do it myself. Very impressive.

Is your frame all alloy? Looks like it is from the photos, but then I thought it might be galvanised. Any problems with welds fatiguing over corrugations?

Have you weighed your canopy? My base (empty) canopy is around 500Kg.

[The ho har's]

Sure have. That's one of the threads that's inspired me to think that I can do it myself. Very impressive.

Is your frame all alloy? Looks like it is from the photos, but then I thought it might be galvanised. Any problems with welds fatiguing over corrugations?

Have you weighed your canopy? My base (empty) canopy is around 500Kg.

Frame is all alloy the walls are composite and no we have had no fatiguing at all and we have been over many corrugations:)

weight fully loaded with water/batteries/gas bottles/fridge/food...you get the gist...everything in 1000kg


Mrs ho har:angel:

[Mulgo]

Here's some mock ups of the canopy I've drawn with Sketch Up.

Hello David,

Had a look at your planned canopy conversion and played around with Sketch-up. Below are some of my thoughts and suggestions.

As with any conversion it is important that we consider the weight distribution. The left and right side should be equal otherwise it is necessary to make complicated adjustments to the suspension.

You have the seating arrangement on the right side and most of the storage compartments and kitchen on the left. Most probably you will have more weight on the left side which could mean that the vehicle will lean to the left.
Suggest you put the seats on either sides and split the kitchen/storage as well.

Sleeping arrangement:
Although you mention in an earlier post that your wife likes to huddle up.... IMHO 1.06 meters is not enough width for a bed. I suggest you make the bed over the full width but move it closer to the front of the cabin which would give you space to climb up from the rear. If you need more space you could also consider to cut a 500x500mm access hole at the end of the bed so that you still have most of the bed at full width.

Access:
Don't know exactly at which height the bottom of the 'box' will be in relation to the front of the vehicle. The access hole seems to be bigger than the rear window of front cab, which would suggest that you have to cut the rear bottom part of the cab and then reinforce it to keep the strength - this might require an engineering certificate.
Suggest you put the spare wheels on swing away spare wheel carriers so that you could put an access door at the rear. This way you have easier access to the cabin than only through the cab.

Roof:
I would still go with the roof hinged at the front. Will be easier to hinge the bed to it an will most probably still give you enough standing height where you need it (i.e. you don't need full standing height where you want to sit.

Material:
Have a look into Aluminium Sandwich panels - very light in weight but strong and good insulation.

Anyway, these are some of my thoughts. At the end every conversion is something personal.

Let me know if you would like further input.

Already looking forward to see the photos of the finished product.

Cheers,
Daniel

[spudboy]

Thank you for that well considered reply! I had not even thought of the differences in weight distribution with the layout of the seating.

Access hole at the end of the bed is an excellent idea, because our feet don't need full width, so that means the rest of the bed can be wider.

Where would I go to get aluminium sandwich panels? This sounds like composite panels I've seen in fiberglass, but made of aluminium.

I have re-jigged my sketches such that the two seats are now at the front of the canopy, when you come through from the vehicle cabin, on left and right sides.

I've also played around with the roof hinging from the rear (because I have more overhang at the rear, so it gives me more lift above the floorplan), but this is the opposite end to the seating so will have to re-think that.

Thanks for thinking about all that on my behalf. Experience make a lot of difference :)

[Mulgo]

Where would I go to get aluminium sandwich panels? This sounds like composite panels I've seen in fiberglass, but made of aluminium.

I've also played around with the roof hinging from the rear (because I have more overhang at the rear, so it gives me more lift above the floorplan), but this is the opposite end to the seating so will have to re-think that.

It is actually called Aluminium Honeycomb Panel. http://www.uesint.com/ had some last time I was at their shop - but cannot find it on their website, might be worth a call.

18349

Very good for flat panels. You can also bend it, but you first need to cut a groove on the inside, so that you only bend the outside panel (if that makes sense). We use this for our conversions (i.e. pop up roofs where we cannot use the standard LR roof, and full camper conversions).
I would not go for the fibreglass material.

Send me your latest Sketch-up files if you need more input for the roof.

Cheers,
Daniel

[spudboy]

Just rang UES in Adelaide. They have this sheet in 20mm thickness only.

1500 x 3000 x 20 sheet = $616 + GST, so pretty pricey, but high tech!

Is this the sort of stuff you could build say a bed base from, and it would be strong enough to support around 150Kg, or would it need framing/bracing to not bend/sag?

[Mulgo]

Just rang UES in Adelaide. They have this sheet in 20mm thickness only.

1500 x 3000 x 20 sheet = $616 + GST, so pretty pricey, but high tech!

Is this the sort of stuff you could build say a bed base from, and it would be strong enough to support around 150Kg, or would it need framing/bracing to not bend/sag?

You probably could - need to look at the specifications. But might be a bit pricey for a bed. I would go for a bed frame and mdf cover.

[Chucaro]

Just rang UES in Adelaide. They have this sheet in 20mm thickness only.

1500 x 3000 x 20 sheet = $616 + GST, so pretty pricey, but high tech!

Is this the sort of stuff you could build say a bed base from, and it would be strong enough to support around 150Kg, or would it need framing/bracing to not bend/sag?

Have a look at THIS (http://www.aluminiumcompositepanel.com.au/p-honeycomb_panel.html) site

[The ho har's]

this what we used

Alumiclad Aluminium Composite Panels (http://www.alumiclad.com/)


Mrs ho har:angel: