RED 130's Suspension Change

[The ho har's]

We have finally redone the suspension on the fender:D

we have taken the inner spring out and fitted Firestone Airbags inside the outer spring..

I went for a drive and it is definitely softer on the road.....didn't even notice the speed bumps in the car park..... with no load in the back..


we will put the camper on shortly and see if the desired effect will be achieved....which is less bum sag:( and less body roll:angel:


Mrs ho har:angel:

[Col.Coleman]

and see if the desired effect will be achieved....which is less bum sag:( and less body roll:angel:


Mrs ho har:angel:

..............................MUST................ .........................RESIST................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................to much temptation........................................ .................................................. .................................................. .......................................


CC

[BigJon]

we will put the camper on shortly and see if the desired effect will be achieved....which is less bum sag:( and less body roll:angel:


Mrs ho har:angel:

You know the correct technique is to inflate the airbags prior to loading the suspension. The alternative is to use a jack to regain the correct ride height and then inflate the airbags.

They are not designed to lift the loaded vehicle back up to the correct height.

[The ho har's]

..............................MUST................ .........................RESIST................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................to much temptation........................................ .................................................. .................................................. .......................................


CC




and you do know I am talking about RED soooo behave :p


Mrs ho har:angel:

[The ho har's]

You know the correct technique is to inflate the airbags prior to loading the suspension. The alternative is to use a jack to regain the correct ride height and then inflate the airbags.

They are not designed to lift the loaded vehicle back up to the correct height.



Yep that is correct....



Mrs ho har:angel:

[Chucaro]

and less body roll:angel:


Mrs ho har:angel:

Pardon my spanglish but, when on the road? :confused::angel:

[The ho har's]

Pardon my spanglish but, when on the road? :confused::angel:


yes Arthur ...body roll on the road.....and when parked:huh:


Mrs ho har

[roverrescue]

Morning Mrs Ho har,

Did you replace the main coils to a heavier rate for your new system?

I will be interested to see how you go, but my experience with a few coilers and poly airs is they wont support anywhere near the mass of the inner helper spring (140lb/in from memory).

Measurements and tare / gross weights would be good info!!!

Regards

Steve

[weeds]

You know the correct technique is to inflate the airbags prior to loading the suspension. The alternative is to use a jack to regain the correct ride height and then inflate the airbags.

They are not designed to lift the loaded vehicle back up to the correct height.

what happen if you load up first than inflate

i never worried as during normal offroading you are either loading up or unloading one spring all the time

[fraser130]

Mrs Ho Har,
Let me know what you think, as we've just bought a camper for our 130, and I'd like to hear if they improve the handling/ride height.
Ta,
Fraser

[PAT303]

..............................MUST................ .........................RESIST................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................to much temptation........................................ .................................................. .................................................. .......................................


CC

Classic!!!!. Pat

[VladTepes]

Yeah do let us know how you get on.

[fraser130]

Slightly related, does anybody know if you can still get the Air adjustable shockers (the ones with the airbag around them) to suit the rear of a Def?
I had a set on the rear of my XW falcon about 20 years ago (to make it look like a drag car!!!! - oh those were the days......)
I recon they would be ideal for the twice a year I will have the camper on.
The other thing that's been floating around my mind is the air bags from a RR with air suspension from someone who has converted to coils - any thoughts there anyone??

Fraser

[BigJon]

what happen if you load up first than inflate

i never worried as during normal offroading you are either loading up or unloading one spring all the time

The airbags work by expanding into the gaps between the coils, thereby artificially increasing the spring rate.

They don't work by actually supporting the load itself.

It then follows that if the springs are already compressed (loaded), expanding the airbag into the gap between the coils can't actually lift the sagged vehicle.

[BigJon]

Slightly related, does anybody know if you can still get the Air adjustable shockers (the ones with the airbag around them) to suit the rear of a Def?
I had a set on the rear of my XW falcon about 20 years ago (to make it look like a drag car!!!! - oh those were the days......)
I recon they would be ideal for the twice a year I will have the camper on.
The other thing that's been floating around my mind is the air bags from a RR with air suspension from someone who has converted to coils - any thoughts there anyone??

Fraser

I have never seen air adjustable dampers on a LR of any sort.
I wouldn't recommend them anyway. Dampers are for controlling the spring, springs are for supporting the weight.

The damper mounts aren't designed to be load bearing in the manner of a spring mount.

[The ho har's]

Morning Mrs Ho har,

Did you replace the main coils to a heavier rate for your new system?

I will be interested to see how you go, but my experience with a few coilers and poly airs is they wont support anywhere near the mass of the inner helper spring (140lb/in from memory).

Measurements and tare / gross weights would be good info!!!

Regards

Steve


They are not polyairs they are firestone..(we have polyairs in our disco)

but will let you know:)


Mrs ho har:angel:

[Bush65]

...
The other thing that's been floating around my mind is the air bags from a RR with air suspension from someone who has converted to coils - any thoughts there anyone??

Fraser
Have a look at Hally's Defender here (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/74190-defender-110-ute.html) using Firestone air springs, which have more travel than rangie units (14" vs 8" IIRC). Besides looking at the pics, read the update post #14.

[philco]

You could go down to the local truck parts suppliers and get truck airbags, they should lift up to 6 inch more than the car bags you are talking about, fully inflated might give you a 12 inch lift, . . . . . . . . . . . . . . hahaha fully inflated, sounds like the old ladies from Church having a big gossip session

[BigJon]

Air bags for trucks or vehicles which have solely air suspension are different to helper air springs that fit inside coils. They work in different ways too.

[fraser130]

Have a look at Hally's Defender here (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/74190-defender-110-ute.html) using Firestone air springs, which have more travel than rangie units (14" vs 8" IIRC). Besides looking at the pics, read the update post #14.

Thanks John, I'll see if I can get in touch with Hally to get an idea of price/effort involved etc.

Cheers,

Fraser

[Bush65]

Have a look at Hally's Defender here (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/74190-defender-110-ute.html) using Firestone air springs, which have more travel than rangie units (14" vs 8" IIRC). Besides looking at the pics, read the update post #14.
These air springs are different to air bags/helpers, they replace the coils. Here is a pic and quote from Hally.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/09/1228.jpg

Well it has been a while but I finally got to take the red rover for a spin yesterday to test out the air bags :thumbsup:WOW why didnt I do this earlier no more cluncking banging from the rear springs no more bouncing after i hit a bump in the road and no more breaking spring retainers. I used to have heavy duty springs in the rear and you had to wear a kidney belt just to drive it it was painfull. After driving around on very rough roads yesterday I would highly recommend the air bags. Their is almost no rebound and the rear is handling alot better around corners you could not wipe the smile off my face as I cant explain how comfortable the ride was. I will post up some detail shortly on part No.s etc.

The pistons for the air springs in the pic are not the best style to use for this application though and handling can be improved greatly by changing the piston shape (machine pistons or buy different style).

[87County]

We have finally redone the suspension on the fender:D

we have taken the inner spring out and fitted Firestone Airbags inside the outer spring..

I went for a drive and it is definitely softer on the road.....didn't even notice the speed bumps in the car park..... with no load in the back..


we will put the camper on shortly and see if the desired effect will be achieved....which is less bum sag:( and less body roll:angel:


Mrs ho har:angel:


Hi Mrs ho har:angel:

glad it has worked out ... could you post the Firestone part # please

[The ho har's]

truckspring.com

RR W22-760-4116


Mrs ho har:angel:

[The ho har's]

OK camper was on this morning and has lifted the rear by about 20mm...we

are heading to Sydney soon so this will test the handling.........will report

back:)


Mrs ho har:angel:

[roverrescue]

So just to confirm:

Standard 130 spring setup: large coil, small inner coil loaded ride height = X

New setup: 130 large coil, remove inner replace with firestone RR W22-760-4116 ride height = X + 20mm...


if so Im very interested... I still prefer polyair air line fittings, have come across three sets of firestone push fittings un-pushing but will be interested to see how the loaded trip goes ride wise...

Steve

[2stroke]

I had the Firestone ones in but one seemed to go down slowly, I took them out for the Simpson trip as it'll be loaded the whole time and I thought I'd have less drama with the inner coils. Will work out why when I get back.

[roverrescue]

check the push fitting at top of bag... Normally a very sound pneumatic fitting, but in this application where there is heaps of movement between fitting and hose they seem to leak.

Polyair uses a barbed brass fitting with hose clamp, which I have not had troubles with (plus 3 mates with them). Funny story, a guy I met in the kimberley who ran his coil rear GU ute with polyairs at 60psi for three years till I tried to convince him they werent rated to that pressure... I dont think he believed me though! No probs with a tonne in the back on the GRR and station work. I dont think he will change his inflation plan any time soon.

Steve

[lardy]

Polyair uses a barbed brass fitting with hose clamp, which I have not had troubles with (plus 3 mates with them). Funny story, a guy I met in the kimberley who ran his coil rear GU ute with polyairs at 60psi for three years till I tried to convince him they werent rated to that pressure... I dont think he believed me though! No probs with a tonne in the back on the GRR and station work. I dont think he will change his inflation plan any time soon.
.................wont that speed the deteriation of the bag ?
we seem to have two schools of thought between polyair and firestone can someone list the pro's and con's to both cos i am too lazy to do the research and can they be run off a general compressor ..estimated cost ..and who is best to fit them in the west

[Bush65]

...
we seem to have two schools of thought between polyair and firestone can someone list the pro's and con's to both cos i am too lazy to do the research and can they be run off a general compressor ..estimated cost ..and who is best to fit them in the west
The main difference is the colour - Polyairs are red, Firestone are blue :D

Firestone airbags can be bought from Trucksprings in the USA, for a considerable cost saving (Trucksprings don't sell ployairs).

Either can be inflated with any compressor that can inflate your tyres - they use the same type valve stem for inflation.

[The ho har's]

We have polyairs in the Disco:D

haven't had any propbs with them the only reason bought Firestone is they

cost nearly half the price of polyairs:eek:


Mrs ho har:angel:

[lardy]

We have polyairs in the Disco:D

haven't had any propbs with them the only reason bought Firestone is they

cost nearly half the price of polyairs:eek:


Mrs ho har:angel:

hi Mrs Ho har looked at the truck spring joint in the u.s. they only seem to recommend their kit for fitment to 90's not older than a 97 ...did you ring to get the right ones ? regards andy ...
p.s. does the airbag man in brissy do the same thing ?

[The ho har's]

hi Mrs Ho har looked at the truck spring joint in the u.s. they only seem to recommend their kit for fitment to 90's not older than a 97 ...did you ring to get the right ones ? regards andy ...
p.s. does the airbag man in brissy do the same thing ?


ho har crossed referenced the air bags with the European ones as the US does not have 130's over there....our air bags came with instructions to fit into a Poootrol:eek: for $191.00 AUD delivered to our door part number RR W22-760-4116


Airbag man in Brissy are nearly twice the price $345.00



Mrs ho har:angel:

[XSiV]

I got my Poly airs from repco for far less than that and afterwards shane at suspension stuff said he could have done them for less again.

The pro's and cons I found was simply the fact that the firestone's connection method was not as reliable as the polyairs. ie I found no complaints anywhere about a leaking poly air though I found planty of references to the firestones connector pulling free from the bag and slow leaks etc.

My truck broke not long after installing new suspension so I can't tell you how well they work yet. I did upgrade the rear outer spring to a slightly heavier duty that the OE one.

[roverrescue]

Josh,
would you have the Polyair part number for fitment to rear main coil of 130... ie not into the helper coil. And by "far less from repco, cheaper again by Susp Stuff" is that less than $191 or less than $345????

ta
Steve

[XSiV]

Sorry I meant cheaper than $345, I thought it was around $250 odd but now I have checked my receipts it was $330 for the 2" lift one. The part number for using as a replacement for inner spring is 95098, and with a 2" lift it's 95095. For the one that sits inside the inner spring it's 94091. They are all listed here (http://www.heasmans.com.au/polyair/product/index.html). The kit to fit inside the main coil with a 2" lift is the same bag as the standard except it comes with a rubber spacer/seat for the bag to sit on to account for the 2" lift.

I think the attachment mechanism used on the polyairs is far more durable and I can't see it failing under any normal circumstances.

[The ho har's]

We drove to Sydney with the camper and did notice considerably less body roll and the ride height as vastly improved:D....while at the Expo ho har did chat with the Firestone Rep... and has now made some blocks to fit under the bag so it doesn't sit on the bolts...the kit the Rep had came with the blocks for defenders......we did take the inner springs just in case...we are very happy with the purchase:D


If anyone wants the Firestone Reps number pls PM me..his prices were a little more expensive than the US but cheaper than Air bag....Hope this helps you guys:D


Mrs ho har:angel:

[lardy]

Goddess Ho Har you could pass that number this way please, it's def on the list for the 130 facelift....what do you do for a compressor out of interest? and what of the front springs ? regards Andy

[roverrescue]

Thanks for the update Mrs HoHar!!

out of interest, what is the fully loaded weight of your camper????

Steve

[The ho har's]

Thanks for the update Mrs HoHar!!

out of interest, what is the fully loaded weight of your camper????

Steve


100lts of water, 110 ltrs fuel and fully loaded with everything just shy of 3.5T


Mrs ho har:angel:

[roverrescue]

righteo so say GVM 3490 minus tare of 130 CC is 1990
so near enough to 1500kg load including peoples / fuel and water...

thats great to know.

I still prefer the polyair bag fitting, but I am impressed that the bag supports the load more effectively than the factory 140lb/in helper spring.

For me its a toss up between a full airspring and now this option. I did have a lead on some preloved airsprings that were 12in bags from a GU ute that the owner upgraded to 14in bags... but I lost his number?

Muchly appreciated.

Steve

[dullbird]

Mrs Ho Har..

I noticed that your firestone airbags are for the 130....but noted for the 90 in the U.s market as they dont have 130's do you know if the part number you supplied would fit the rear coil of a 110...as I'm sure 130 rear coils are bigger...however 90 coils aren't I dont think.

thinking about getting a pair for the Puma now the aussie dollar is up

[The ho har's]

Mrs Ho Har..

I noticed that your firestone airbags are for the 130....but noted for the 90 in the U.s market as they dont have 130's do you know if the part number you supplied would fit the rear coil of a 110...as I'm sure 130 rear coils are bigger...however 90 coils aren't I dont think.

thinking about getting a pair for the Puma now the aussie dollar is up


DB the 110 and 130's are the same part number.... The 90's, discos and RR are the same part number...you will have to make blocks to fit under the air bag as preveously stated in this thread as the US doesn't supply them...maybe you can ask the Rep we spoke to at the expo to supply them:)

Mrs ho har:angel:

[dullbird]

DB the 110 and 130's are the same part number.... The 90's, discos and RR are the same part number...you will have to make blocks to fit under the air bag as preveously stated in this thread as the US doesn't supply them...maybe you can ask the Rep we spoke to at the expo to supply them:)

Mrs ho har:angel:

Mrs Ho Har

if he sells the blocks on they're own then yes I would get some......
if he only sells as a kit then no as
I bet he can't match $114 dollars for a pair of air bags coz thats what they are with a current exchange rate.
I still need to add the freight but wouldn't imagine it will be to bad..waiting on a quote.

as for a part number I didn't see the option for 110 only 90..

[The ho har's]

Mrs Ho Har

if he sells the blocks on they're own then yes I would get some......
if he only sells as a kit then no as
I bet he can't match $114 dollars for a pair of air bags coz thats what they are with a current exchange rate.
I still need to add the freight but wouldn't imagine it will be to bad..waiting on a quote.

as for a part number I didn't see the option for 110 only 90..

sorry must have been sleeping :D..part number RR W22-760-4116


Mrs ho har:angel:

[dullbird]

sorry must have been sleeping :D..part number RR W22-760-4116


Mrs ho har:angel:

thanks for that much appreciated:)

so 110 rear springs are the same as 130 is that correct?

[The ho har's]

thanks for that much appreciated:)rom the reaserch

so 110 rear springs are the same as 130 is that correct?


we do beleive so from the research we did;)


Mrs ho har:angel:

[dmdigital]

Lou, 110, 130 springs are the same. 130 helper springs will go in a 110 (with the mounting brackets). HD springs for both are also the same. I'm looking at all this for setting the Puma back to level when towing. 25,143km on it seems to be down a little at the backend:(

[The ho har's]

Lou, 110, 130 springs are the same. 130 helper springs will go in a 110 (with the mounting brackets). HD springs for both are also the same. I'm looking at all this for setting the Puma back to level when towing. 25,143km on it seems to be down a little at the backend:(


I wonder why;):D


Mrs ho har:angel:

[dullbird]

Can't find any reference to that part number on there site so I have emailed them....

[dmdigital]

I wonder why;):D


Mrs ho har:angel:
Never you mind:p


Can't find any reference to that part number on there site so I have emailed them....
Lou let me know what they say because I was going to do the same.

[rar110]

Can't find any reference to that part number on there site so I have emailed them....

I went through this exercise back in Sept. I sent the part no to them and got this response:

"Kit 4116 is used on cars in the US and Kit 4121 is used on Land Rover Discovery, Defender and Range Rover with stock coil springs. Our application guides only show US vehicles, so we cannot confirm what will fit the 110. "


I gave up at that point.

[dullbird]

oh really through the same people?

put mrs Ho har has sucessfully got some from them....If I could just buy from the part number then it would be fine as that is what HH has given me but because they do not list the part numbers on the website I can't be sure what i'm buying

[The ho har's]

oh really through the same people?

put mrs Ho har has sucessfully got some from them....If I could just buy from the part number then it would be fine as that is what HH has given me but because they do not list the part numbers on the website I can't be sure what i'm buying



Just order the part number I gave you ...that's all we did and they arrived safe and sound...you just have to make a spacer to go under....or order from the UK or in Syd and pay twice as much....simple


Mrs ho har:angel: