Adding 2 stoke oil to your diesel

[Crackerjack]

Has anyone done this or heard of this, read the link

Freel2.com - View topic - 2-stroke oil and diesel (http://www.freel2.com/forum/topic878.html)

Very interesting

[scott oz]

Having read the link but not being that technecial I'd be interested in members views on adding 2stroke to fuel in a TD5 motor.

Look forward to responses

[Crackerjack]

Having read the link but not being that technecial I'd be interested in members views on adding 2stroke to fuel in a TD5 motor.

Look forward to responses

Is not a TD5 virtually identical to a TD4 but with 5 instead of 4 cylinders

[p38arover]

Adding 2 stoke oil to your diesel

Hmm, if we are talking of the kinematic viscosity of the oil, it should be stokes (same word for singular and plural as it's named after George Stokes).

As it's usually measured in centistokes, wouldn't 2 stokes oil be pretty viscous? :p

Where's Isuzurover when you need him?

[PhilipA]

Is not a TD5 virtually identical to a TD4 but with 5 instead of 4 cylinders. NO. TD5 is a development of LR diesel with unitary injectors. TD4 is a BMW 2 litre with common rail injection. Regards Philip A

[Crackerjack]

Has anyone tried this, I would be very interested to hear

[Crackerjack]

wouldn't 2 stokes oil be pretty viscous? :p

Where's Isuzurover when you need him?

At the rate of 1:200 I don't think that is an issue

[Jim.]

Hi all,

I'm going to give this a crack............300ml to 80lt in my 300tdi disco, it sounds like it can only help any diesel engine run cleaner and smoother.

Regards to all Jim.

[isuzurover]

Hmm, if we are talking of the kinematic viscosity of the oil, it should be stokes (same word for singular and plural as it's named after George Stokes).

As it's usually measured in centistokes, wouldn't 2 stokes oil be pretty viscous? :p

Where's Isuzurover when you need him?

Love your wit Ron! I think it went over most people's heads. It should Always be written with a capital S. And that is Sir George Stokes - probably one of the only worthwhile products of Ireland - apart from U2 and The Pogues of course. And yes, 2 St (Stokes) oil would be about an order of magnitude higher than diesel fuel ;)

I suspect that adding 2-stRoke oil increases the lubricity of the diesel by a slight amount. In Germany (and I think France), all diesel now contains a minimum of 5% Bio to improve lubricity. (Edit - just read the thread and it says much the same). However, running B10 or B20 should have a similar effect.

[scott oz]

However, running B10 or B20 should have a similar effect.


Mate what's B10 / B20:angel:. I just go to the same service station because I know the fuel is good and fill up. there's only one pump - no choice

really interested in this topic.

[catch-22]

What ever brand oil you decide to mix, make sure it is soluble in diesel and does not globulate or simply sink.

I did a lot of testing with my race car which now runs e85 (ethonol) and lets only one oil would mix.

Prior to tuning the race car with ethonol I would mix 1:150 Motul 2 stroke oil with no probs (tested outside the car before I decided on that brand). Not diesel related by certainly worth noting.

BTW - race car is a Mazda rx7 13b turbo (rotary) and I am not running the OMP...

Cheers
Caine

[Bush65]

I only read the beginning of the 1st post in that linked thread.

I'm surprised how many people think Sulphur was in diesel fuel for lubrication. It is an impurity, and unlike TE Lead was not for lubrication.

However, the cheapest way for refineries to reduce the Sulphur content in diesel, does have the side effect of reducing lubricity.

[smogmonster]

Love your wit Ron! I think it went over most people's heads. It should Always be written with a capital S. And that is Sir George Stokes - probably one of the only worthwhile products of Ireland - apart from U2 and The Pogues of course. And yes, 2 St (Stokes) oil would be about an order of magnitude higher than diesel fuel ;)

I suspect that adding 2-stRoke oil increases the lubricity of the diesel by a slight amount. In Germany (and I think France), all diesel now contains a minimum of 5% Bio to improve lubricity. (Edit - just read the thread and it says much the same). However, running B10 or B20 should have a similar effect.
Hi,u.k.diesel also has I think 5 % bio diesel added to help ""offset carbon emissions"

[Bigbjorn]

What ever brand oil you decide to mix, make sure it is soluble in diesel and does not globulate or simply sink.

I did a lot of testing with my race car which now runs e85 (ethonol) and lets only one oil would mix.

Prior to tuning the race car with ethonol I would mix 1:150 Motul 2 stroke oil with no probs (tested outside the car before I decided on that brand). Not diesel related by certainly worth noting.

BTW - race car is a Mazda rx7 13b turbo (rotary) and I am not running the OMP...

Cheers
Caine

Mineral oils do not dissolve readily in methanol, so dedicated racing fuels like Shell "A" always contained a percentage of 100 octane motor spirit to dissolve the small percentage of oil that was added to counteract the "washing" effect of very rich methanol fuel/air mixtures on valve stems. From memory, "A" was 92% methanol and rest was made up of motor spirit, oil, benzol. Way back, castor oil was added to racing fuels giving the distinctive odour that race engines emitted when using it.

[catch-22]

Yep. I use a castor based oil with the e85 (85% ethonol = big boost and no detination) but used a different oil when I was running 98 Ron pump fuel.

Many brands of oil said that they would mix with e85 and calls were even made to their tech department and they just didn't, hence the reason I suggested people test for themselves outside the car. Not hard, a little diesel in a glass jar and mix the 2 stroke....see what happens..

[isuzurover]

Mate what's B10 / B20:angel:. I just go to the same service station because I know the fuel is good and fill up. there's only one pump - no choice

really interested in this topic.

10 or 20% biodiesel.

Many servos sell it - e.g. gull in WA sell a fuel with "up to 20%" Bio. Note that if you run 100% bio you should change your oil more frequently, as the bio degrades it faster.

[AKW]

Only slightly off the topic, at work when they change the oil in the trucks
(c15 cats) they filter it to 1 micron then put it in the fuel tank.
1100km home to fuel up at Goondiwindi no diffrence in fuel use.

I think i will try some 2 stroke in my old tractor first,
then might in the 200tdi.

Andrew

'93 200tdi disco
'65 88" s2a

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Only slightly off the topic, at work when they change the oil in the trucks
(c15 cats) they filter it to 1 micron then put it in the fuel tank.


Andrew

'93 200tdi disco
'65 88" s2a


so what ratio fuel/oil does that work out to Andrew?

[Bigbjorn]

Only slightly off the topic, at work when they change the oil in the trucks
(c15 cats) they filter it to 1 micron then put it in the fuel tank.
1100km home to fuel up at Goondiwindi no diffrence in fuel use.

I think i will try some 2 stroke in my old tractor first,
then might in the 200tdi.

Andrew

'93 200tdi disco
'65 88" s2a

Racor used to make plant that would separate and filter waste oil and meter it to your bulk fuel supply in a ratio determined by you.

[isuzurover]

Racor used to make plant that would separate and filter waste oil and meter it to your bulk fuel supply in a ratio determined by you.

Cummins filtration, and many others, have systems to do this as well:
https://quickserve.cummins.com/info/qsol/products/newparts/centinel.html

I doubt they would remove the soot though, and I personally wouldn't be too keen on that stuff going through my injector pump.

[isuzurover]

I only read the beginning of the 1st post in that linked thread.

I'm surprised how many people think Sulphur was in diesel fuel for lubrication. It is an impurity, and unlike TE Lead was not for lubrication.

However, the cheapest way for refineries to reduce the Sulphur content in diesel, does have the side effect of reducing lubricity.

As John points out, organic sulphur (dibenzothiophene), found as an impurity in diesel and other fuels, has been found to have no effect or even a detrimental effect on lubricity. Below is the most comprehensive study I have to hand on lubricity additives (focussed on biodiesel).



Lubricity of components of biodiesel and petrodiesel. The origin of biodiesel lubricity

Author(s): Knothe G, Steidley KR
Source: ENERGY & FUELS Volume: 19 Issue: 3 Pages: 1192-1200 Published: MAY-JUN 2005
Times Cited: 37 References: 59 Citation MapCitation Map
Abstract: An alternative diesel fuel that is steadily gaining attention and significance is biodiesel, which is defined as the monoalkyl esters of vegetable oils and animal fats. Previous literature states that low blend levels of biodiesel can restore lubricity to (ultra-)low-sulfur petroleum-derived diesel (petrodiesel) fuels, which have poor lubricity. This feature has been discussed as a major technical advantage of biodiesel. In this work, the lubricity of numerous fatty compounds was studied and compared to that of hydrocarbon compounds found in petrodiesel. The effects of blending compounds found in biodiesel on petrodiesel lubricity were also studied. Lubricity was determined using the high-frequency reciprocating rig (HFRR) test. Dibenzothiophene, which is contained in nondesulfurized petrodiesel, does not enhance petrodiesel lubricity. Fatty compounds possess better lubricity than hydrocarbons, because of their polarity-imparting 0 atoms. Neat free fatty acids, monoacylglycerols, and glycerol possess better lubricity than neat esters, because of their free OH groups. Lubricity improves somewhat with the chain length and the presence of double bonds. An order of oxygenated moieties enhancing lubricity (COOH > CHO > OH > COOCH3 > C=O > C-O-C) was obtained from studying various oxygenated C-10 compounds. Results on neat C-3 compounds with OH, NH2, and SH groups show that oxygen enhances lubricity more than nitrogen and sulfur. Adding commercial biodiesel improves lubricity of low-sulfur petrodiesel more than neat fatty esters, indicating that other biodiesel components cause lubricity enhancement at low biodiesel blend levels. Adding glycerol to a neat ester and then adding this mixture at low blend levels to low-lubricity petrodiesel did not improve petrodiesel lubricity. However, adding polar compounds such as free fatty acids or monoacylglycerols improves the lubricity of low-level blends of esters in low-lubricity petrodiesel. Thus, some species (free fatty acids, monoacylglycerols) considered contaminants resulting from biodiesel production are responsible for the lubricity of low-level blends of biodiesel in (ultra-)low-sulfur petrodiesel. Commercial biodiesel is required at a level of 1%-2% in low-lubricity petrodiesel, which exceeds the typical additive level, to attain the lubricity-imparting additive level of biodiesel contaminants in petrodiesel.

[AKW]

The oil is just dumped in to the tanks half each side.

app 30 lts oil, 900 lts fuel.
They have been doing for about 3 years now with no problems so far.
as i said it is filterd to 1 micron and CAT is happy for it to go
through the injectors. 30000 km oil changes also, castrol semi
synth, oil. oil samples every 10000 km.

Andrew

[scott oz]

So 2 stroke (mineral) in a TD5 at 1Lt to every 200 Lts will do no harm?

Anyone tried it?

[mark2]

The oil is just dumped in to the tanks half each side.

app 30 lts oil, 900 lts fuel.
They have been doing for about 3 years now with no problems so far.
as i said it is filterd to 1 micron and CAT is happy for it to go
through the injectors. 30000 km oil changes also, castrol semi
synth, oil. oil samples every 10000 km.

Andrew
Do you know if they do this to save 30 litres of fuel at each oil change or for lubricity reasons? I assume its for lubricity as it seems like a lot of trouble to save $40 worth of fuel.......

Slightly off topic, but the other diesel additive which is interesting to research is acetone - in small quanitites it may provide combustion/efficiency improvments.

[whitakerb]

PM BRUTE, he's been doing it for a while in his TD5 130 and as far as i remember, he thinks its great

Cheers

Ben

[incisor]

i have tried the acetone one and the 2 stroke one in this current engine and the 2 stroke one makes a much bigger difference imho.

whether it is worth the extra running costs would be another question...

this to me begs the question...

IF adding 300ml of two stroke to your 80 litre tank of diesel DOES make a marked difference to how your engine runs..

what is wrong with the engine in the first place ?

:D

[Pedro_The_Swift]

this to me begs the question...

IF adding 300ml of two stroke to your 80 litre tank of diesel DOES make a marked difference to how your engine runs..

what is wrong with the engine in the first place ?

:D


or--


why doesnt someone produce the fuel in bulk?
;)

[Panya]

Wouldn't increasing the lubricity of the fuel simply help the fuel pump survive a bit longer? Surely not a huge amount of lubrication on engine moving parts from the fuel? I thought that's why we have engine oil!? I cannot get my head round the comment about the engine being in "extroardinary clean and top condition" from oil added to the fuel...:confused:

[discomuzz]

... Way back, castor oil was added to racing fuels giving the distinctive odour that race engines emitted when using it.

So, can I add some quantity of castor oil to my disco to get that sweet speedway smell that takes me back to my youth?

[mark2]

Wouldn't increasing the lubricity of the fuel simply help the fuel pump survive a bit longer? Surely not a huge amount of lubrication on engine moving parts from the fuel? I thought that's why we have engine oil!? I cannot get my head round the comment about the engine being in "extroardinary clean and top condition" from oil added to the fuel...:confused:

I think he's saying that the 2-stroke also improves combustion efficiency (in addition to lubricating the pump/injectors). This could result in a cleaner engine due to less soot production.

[mark2]

i have tried the acetone one and the 2 stroke one in this current engine and the 2 stroke one makes a much bigger difference imho.

whether it is worth the extra running costs would be another question...

this to me begs the question...

IF adding 300ml of two stroke to your 80 litre tank of diesel DOES make a marked difference to how your engine runs..

what is wrong with the engine in the first place ?

:D

Maybe the question should be "What is wrong with the diesel fuel in the first place?"

[subasurf]

I wish I had a diesel now just so I could try this :)

[jmkoffice]

I am currently trialing this.

Engine noise seems quieter - more of a muffled diesel engine noise now. With regard to power – smoother take-off with vehicle reaching desired speed quicker with less accelerator. Auto gear change to higher ratios occur in a shorter period of time due to the instant availability of power at lower revs. Zero smoke even when pushed hard.

Overall performance improvement is noticeable. I await the fuel consumption stats from this tank of fuel…..

[harro]

Just got back from 3 weeks away.
Cairns to Birdsville and back, 4600 klms.
Ran my defender td5 with the 2 stroke mix at 200:1 for the entire trip

No noticeable noise decrease.
No increase in fuel efficiency, (if anything worse).
And no noticeable changes to performance.

There may be some merit to the claims as a lubricity supplement in low sulphur diesel according to some stuff floating around on the net, but that may be about it.

This trip included a fair amount of highway and offroad work including the token run over 'Big Red'.

I have since discontinued the trial.

Cheers,
Paul.

[subasurf]

I have since discontinued the trial.

Cheers,
Paul.

hehehe, it's funny, on paper it all sounds like it should work and is worth the cash to do. Everyone has been saying they have noticed a difference but a part of me wonders if it's just a placebo effect; which wouldn't suprise me in the slightest.

Was happy to read your post and see a different opinion from someone that gave it a go.

[big guy]

When I filled my diesel(300tdi) tank with Pulp, than drained most of it and refilled with diesel, the motor actually ran smoother, less pluming and better performance.

A mate of a mate said the old farmers used to always add some unleaded to their tanks and apparently cleaned the injectors and kept things cleaner.
Those days, the sulphur was also through the roof but that was accepted practice, 1-2L to a tank of diesel.

Off topic somewhat but by my own experience, there does not seem to be any harm done and performance was definately better.
Anyone tried this either by accident or otherwise?

[amtravic1]

I had a mate that always added a litre of petrol to his standard GQ 4.2 litre diesel tank. He was a very pedantic engineer and would never do anything to harm his vehicles. He once bought a Nissan sedan and left it in the garage for 6 months to let the paint go hard, before he used it, no kidding.

We have just bought a VW Passat diesel and I think I will give adding anything to the fuel a miss for a while as it only has 1000 kms on it.

Ian

[Dougal]

When I filled my diesel(300tdi) tank with Pulp, than drained most of it and refilled with diesel, the motor actually ran smoother, less pluming and better performance.

A mate of a mate said the old farmers used to always add some unleaded to their tanks and apparently cleaned the injectors and kept things cleaner.
Those days, the sulphur was also through the roof but that was accepted practice, 1-2L to a tank of diesel.

Off topic somewhat but by my own experience, there does not seem to be any harm done and performance was definately better.
Anyone tried this either by accident or otherwise?

A good source tells me that diesel landcruisers can burn a 50/50 mix of diesel and 91, getting only slightly less economy to straight diesel. Accidental trial of course.:cool:

[mark2]

I've just added 2T to my Patrol (TD42T) @ 200:1. Havent driven it yet, only started a couple of times and idled for a while get the mixture through the system. On the subsequent cold start 'test', diesel knock seemed to be noticeably reduced - when cold, it now sounds like it does when its hot. Whether this a placebo effect, I dont know, and am yet to drive it.....

[discomuzz]

Bugger it!

My tappets are way out of whack and the old darlin' is running like a pig.

I will video/audio the effect of adding 1:200 two stroke and post the results over the next couple of days.

Then I will adjust the tappets!

Can't do any harm!... right?

[Dougal]

Quick survey.

Are those reporting benefits all running VE (rotary) injection pumps?

[scott oz]

Quick survey.

Are those reporting benefits all running VE (rotary) injection pumps?

Perhaps for the less technical you could specify the years of vehicles with rotary pumps as I wouldn't know what mine is.

Mine is a 2001 TD5 Defender

[Dougal]

Perhaps for the less technical you could specify the years of vehicles with rotary pumps as I wouldn't know what mine is.

Mine is a 2001 TD5 Defender

200/300 tdi's are rotary VE pump. TD5's are unit injectors.
VE pumps are lubricated by diesel, if they're having issues then diesel lubrication may be enough to tip the balance.

I have an Isuzu with an inline pump, I can't see it giving a damn about what it gets fed.

[jmkoffice]

Just got back from 3 weeks away.
Cairns to Birdsville and back, 4600 klms.
Ran my defender td5 with the 2 stroke mix at 200:1 for the entire trip

No noticeable noise decrease.
No increase in fuel efficiency, (if anything worse).
And no noticeable changes to performance.

There may be some merit to the claims as a lubricity supplement in low sulphur diesel according to some stuff floating around on the net, but that may be about it.

This trip included a fair amount of highway and offroad work including the token run over 'Big Red'.

I have since discontinued the trial.

Cheers,
Paul.
Paul you need to now repeat your trial without 2T added to the fuel, this will give you a true comparison:)

The trial I am conducting compares the differences of adding 2T to my known driving patterns etc that I do without 2T added.

I will be interested in the results......

[AKW]

Back from QLD again.
The main reason the oil goes in the fuel tanks is just to get rid of it.
During winter they have an oil heater in the workshop, the rest of the year
the trucks burn it.
The c15s have not had any problems, but i think they have stoped
doing it on the c12s not sure of the reason as i don't drive one.

Am going to try 2st in my tractor (b275 inter) today.

Andrew

'93 200 tdi disco
'65 88" s2a

[Crackerjack]

i have tried the acetone one and the 2 stroke one in this current engine and the 2 stroke one makes a much bigger difference imho.

whether it is worth the extra running costs would be another question...

this to me begs the question...

IF adding 300ml of two stroke to your 80 litre tank of diesel DOES make a marked difference to how your engine runs..

what is wrong with the engine in the first place ?

:D

Have you read the thread that this thread is discussing?

[123rover50]

I put the 2 stroke oil in the tank of my 120 4BD1 na about 3 weeks ago, have not noticed any increase in power etc but it certainly runs quieter.
In fact my wife remarked the other day that she cannot hear me come up the drive any more and wondered what I had done to it.

Didiman.

[PAT303]

After putting oil in your fuel you should all fit Hiclones,that crap that you put in your oil to lower friction and one of those turbo's thats just a blender motor with a fan on it and you'll all be sitting pretty.If you want something that works get your engines tuned and tappets done and fit D/gas. Pat

[Dougal]

After putting oil in your fuel you should all fit Hiclones,that crap that you put in your oil to lower friction and one of those turbo's thats just a blender motor with a fan on it and you'll all be sitting pretty.If you want something that works get your engines tuned and tappets done and fit D/gas. Pat

I'd take the computer fan supercharger before I'd fit D-gas or any other lpg/propane system.

[scott oz]

After putting oil in your fuel you should all fit Hiclones,that crap that you put in your oil to lower friction and one of those turbo's thats just a blender motor with a fan on it and you'll all be sitting pretty.If you want something that works get your engines tuned and tappets done and fit D/gas. Pat


Pat303,
Gather you're not a fan of 2stroke:eek: any particular reason:angel:

[PAT303]

Go to any diesel workshop and ask them about fuel additives,I like the water and unleaded ones,I've seen a perfectly healthy Patrol 4.2 destroyed by the owner putting water down it's guts because his mate said it'll clean the valves,I've also seen a brand new rebuilt cummins split a liner from having unleaded put in the tank because it made the engine pull harder.There is no such thing as a silver bullet,if the injectors are dirty pull and service them and do timing and tappets while your there. Pat

[clean32]

So, can I add some quantity of castor oil to my disco to get that sweet speedway smell that takes me back to my youth?

LOL suck in to much of it and you will be running well LOL

[Crackerjack]

Hi all,

I'm going to give this a crack............300ml to 80lt in my 300tdi disco, it sounds like it can only help any diesel engine run cleaner and smoother.

Regards to all Jim.

Jim, did you ever do this, and what were the results if you did?

[stig0000]

what if you have deiso thats been mixed with pertol,, if you put 2stroke oil in would that even it back out to a safer mix,

[woko]

Is not a TD5 virtually identical to a TD4 but with 5 instead of 4 cylinders
No, early TD4 and TD6 are identical just 4 and 6 cylinders (BMW) Later TD4 is a PSA engine. The TD5 is a rover engine and shares some parts with a L series Diesel

[Ace]

I have just filled the disco with diesel, i might give this a try, might just put 200ml in the 90L tank though and see if this has an effect.

Matt

[Crackerjack]

I have just filled the disco with diesel, i might give this a try, might just put 200ml in the 90L tank though and see if this has an effect.

Matt

Please let us all know how it goes

[bob h]

Has anyone tried this, I would be very interested to hear

Tried this in a Mitsu Delica 4D56T with very good results. Motor idled and ran quiter, better fuel economy, and no bad side effects after aprox 15,000kms. Dont know about late model engines though. Plenty of info about this on other 4x4 forums too. Bob

[bob h]

So 2 stroke (mineral) in a TD5 at 1Lt to every 200 Lts will do no harm?

Anyone tried it?

So long as it is a TCW3 rated oil. Apparently, from what I have read on other forums, and also that Yamalube [for yamaha outboards] is the best. Under N O circumstances should ordinary 2stroke oil be used. Bob

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

So long as it is a TCW3 rated oil. Apparently, from what I have read on other forums, and also that Yamalube [for yamaha outboards] is the best. Under N O circumstances should ordinary 2stroke oil be used. Bob

Marine 2 stroke is thinner and burns cleaner than normal 2 stroke mainly for emissions and marine 2's run cooler having a constant cold water feed for cooling.

I used to run a synthetic marine in my RZ500 years ago during winter, smelt a lot like castor. Used to start better, warm up quicker, run smoother and the pipes went a nice clean white/grey rather than the usual sooty black. Smells pretty good too when you run it on a 50/50 avgas/unleaded fuel :cool:
Miss the days of avgas off the pump... ;)

[Jim.]

Hi all,

I have been running 300ml 2 stroke per full tank of deisel (300 TDI) for at least a year. My vehicle runs smoother and quieter on this mix. Give it a go, you will be amazed at the difference it makes.

Regards to all Jim

[Crackerjack]

Hi all,

I have been running 300ml 2 stroke per full tank of deisel (300 TDI) for at least a year. My vehicle runs smoother and quieter on this mix. Give it a go, you will be amazed at the difference it makes.

Regards to all Jim

Performance/economy?

[Ace]

Hi all,

I have been running 300ml 2 stroke per full tank of deisel (300 TDI) for at least a year. My vehicle runs smoother and quieter on this mix. Give it a go, you will be amazed at the difference it makes.

Regards to all Jim

Did it take a few tank loads of diesel with the oil in it to notice a difference?

[Jim.]

Hi all,

The difference is noticable from the moment you drive out of the service station. As for performance and economy the motor seems to run smoother and quieter. I have never really checked the economy properly, however I generally get 800km per tank.

Regards to all Jim.

[rick130]

Placebo effect.

[rick130]

So long as it is a TCW3 rated oil. Apparently, from what I have read on other forums, and also that Yamalube [for yamaha outboards] is the best. Under N O circumstances should ordinary 2stroke oil be used. Bob


Marine 2 stroke is thinner and burns cleaner than normal 2 stroke mainly for emissions and marine 2's run cooler having a constant cold water feed for cooling.

[snip]

As you said, a TCW3 oil is designed for engines running much lower revs than bikes, saws, etc and much lower combustion chamber temps.

I've never heard the argument that Bob's repeated above re TCW3 oils though.
While JASO FC/FD air/water cooled injector bike oils have low flash points too, (often around 70-90*C) the additives used are designed for much higher combustion temps than outboard motors.
If you use a TCW3 oil in an air cooled two stroke you will have problems with the additive package, although i can't recall ATM exactly what will happen.

Race style two stroke brews have flash temps upwards of 200*C.

Good diesel additives like Redline RL2 use an ashless ester (two stroke) oil as part of the package to enhance fuel lubricity.
I used RL2 consistently for years, as well as straight two stroke (Castrol TTS) when I ran out of RL2 and can't say the engines performed any differently with or without, although the dedicated fuel additive helped the Patrol (IDI engine) when running/starting rough from using farm fuel or dodgy fuel station fuel.

IMO there is more much more variation in performance from the change in daily temps between morning, mid day and evening or even how I feel.
Had to drive 100km yesterday to a training seminar and left home at 7:30 and the car went like a rocket, smooth and powerful (for a Tdi).
Left Tamworth at 4:00 and I felt like crap, headache, could hardly see, etc form watching PP presentations all day long and the car and engine felt like crap the whole way too, rough, vibraty, jiggly, harsh and just plain yukky. ;)

[Zute]

Im using Chemtech's "Diesel Power" fuel additive. It says it contains: 770g/L liquid hydrocarbons ?
I dont use it on every tank fill, but when I do. Im amazed that the motor seems quiter on start up when ever I add it to a tank fill. Cant say if there is any better economy or such. I mainly do it to fight algae and bacteria growth.
Its added at a minimum rate of 1ml to 1 litre of fuel and looks a lot like 2stroke oil. But smells nothing like it.
P.S. Never smell it.

[Hoodoo Brown]

Been putting in 2 stroke for the last six months. No noticable improvement in economy however it runs quieter.

[LandyAndy]

IMO there is more much more variation in performance from the change in daily temps between morning, mid day and evening or even how I feel.
Had to drive 100km yesterday to a training seminar and left home at 7:30 and the car went like a rocket, smooth and powerful (for a Tdi).
Left Tamworth at 4:00 and I felt like crap, headache, could hardly see, etc form watching PP presentations all day long and the car and engine felt like crap the whole way too, rough, vibraty, jiggly, harsh and just plain yukky. ;)

PLACEBO EFFECT Rick:p:p:p:p:p
Andrew

[rick130]

[snip]
or even how I feel.
Had to drive 100km yesterday to a training seminar and left home at 7:30 and the car went like a rocket, smooth and powerful (for a Tdi).
Left Tamworth at 4:00 and I felt like crap, headache, could hardly see, etc form watching PP presentations all day long and the car and engine felt like crap the whole way too, rough, vibraty, jiggly, harsh and just plain yukky. ;)

PLACEBO EFFECT Rick:p:p:p:p:p
Andrew

Yep, that's why I wrote it Andrew ;)

[LandyAndy]

They all do go better in the cool of the morning or evening.
I doubt I would ever tip 2 stroke oil in any diesel of mine unless it had a thumping Husky mojo transplant:D:D:D:D:D
Andrew

[uninformed]

should i run diesel in my 2 strokes :confused:

[rick130]

should i run diesel in my 2 strokes :confused:

Only if it's a Detroit :lol2:

[Ean Austral]

OUR CUMMINS ENGINES ON THE BOAT USED TO HAVE AN OIL FILTRATION SYSTEM THAT MIXED THE USED SUMP OIL AND PUT IT THRU THE FUEL SYSTEM TO BE RE-BURNT.THE RATIO WAS 60LTR SUMP OIL TO 6000LTS DEISEL...AFTER HAVING THE SYSTEM FOR 6 MTHS AND SEEING THE CLOUR OF THE FUEL FILTERS AFTER 100HRS RUNNING, AND THE FUEL THAT DRAINED OUT OF THEM THE SYSTEM WENT IN THE SHED NEVER TO BE USED AGAIN..
I WOULDN'T ADD OIL OF ANY SORT TO MY FUEL SYSTEM,EVEN IN THE SMALLEST AMOUNTS..

CHEERS EAN

[slug_burner]

Ean,

Your caps lock is on.

How much oil do you have to dispose of if you do not burn it in the engine? Do you use oil condition to determine when to change it or do you just go on hours? Do the engines have any bypass filters like a centrifuge or dunny roll filter?

[Ean Austral]

Ean,

Your caps lock is on.

How much oil do you have to dispose of if you do not burn it in the engine? Do you use oil condition to determine when to change it or do you just go on hours? Do the engines have any bypass filters like a centrifuge or dunny roll filter?

Main Engine holds 75ltrs, and runs the standard 2 cummins oil filters with a dunny roll type filter that was fitted aftermarket..We take oil samples but oil /filter change interval is 500hrs/ except dunnyroll,every 1000hrs
Gen-set holds 25lts and has standard filter system, take oil samples but change oil/ filters every 250hrs..
Gbox every 1000hrs.

Have a 1500ltr waste oil tank on board, which is pumped out in town at the end of each season.
Oil used is Caltex Delo 400..when we used Shell oil we had all sorts of consumption issues, even when 1 engine was new, but this oil seems good.
Usually by the time the oil samples get done if anything is on its way out its usually failed before the results are back, but the insurance company loves the fact we do them.

Cheers Ean

[RobHay]

My tuppance worth.........Diesels burn oil............peanut oil, vegetable oil, mineral oil (diesel).......If they mucking around with the diesel and removing elements that affect the performance / maintainance of the engine then it makes sense to add something to restore these properties....Two Stroke oil sounds good to me........although I am not going to try it...................as all my vehicles are petrol :D

[rick130]

My tuppance worth.........Diesels burn oil............peanut oil, vegetable oil, mineral oil (diesel).......If they mucking around with the diesel and removing elements that affect the performance / maintainance of the engine then it makes sense to add something to restore these properties....Two Stroke oil sounds good to me........although I am not going to try it...................as all my vehicles are petrol :D

They (as in the refineries) removed the nasty sulphur which contrary to popular myth has no effect on diesel lubricity at all, in fact it's nasty stuff all round.

What does happen is that during the process of removing the sulphur some of the aromatic components that do contribute to diesel lubricity are removed too, but, by law all diesel sold in this country has to conform to a minimum lubricity standard (it's a physical scar test) which IIRC is at least as high as it was back when we had 500PPM sulphur diesel, then we moved to 50 and now 10PPM sulphur diesel.

To achieve this the refiners add a lubricant to meet the Oz specs, so a lubricant is added before you even buy diesel.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Hey Ean,,
if its not a secret:angel:,,
what model Cummins?

[Ean Austral]

Hey Ean,,
if its not a secret:angel:,,
what model Cummins?


No Secrects Pedro,
Main Propulsion-KTA 19M
Gen Set-C SERIES 8.6ltr.


Cheers Ean

[discoveryseries1]

I wish I had a diesel now just so I could try this :)
dude i have had 2 3.9 discos, one on dual fuel and had a costom built preformance engine, but once you get a diesel you dont go back !

[AKW]

I have been using 2stroke in my 200tdi for about 12 months
now, i think it runs quieter but can not prove it.
Fuel use is good at 9.7 to 10.4 km/ltr
depending what i'm towing and how hard i press
the right foot down.

Andrew

'93 200 tdi disco
'65 88' s2a

[mark2]

My tuppance worth.........Diesels burn oil............peanut oil, vegetable oil, mineral oil (diesel).......If they mucking around with the diesel and removing elements that affect the performance / maintainance of the engine then it makes sense to add something to restore these properties....Two Stroke oil sounds good to me........although I am not going to try it...................as all my vehicles are petrol :D

I tip all my left over outboard fuel (2 stroke premix) into my 110 V8's fuel tank as I prefer the outboard to have fresh fuel every trip........it might even give the benefit of leaving some residual lubrication on the SU carby needles when running on gas.

[Ace]

I tip all my left over outboard fuel (2 stroke premix) into my 110 V8's fuel tank as I prefer the outboard to have fresh fuel every trip........it might even give the benefit of leaving some residual lubrication on the SU carby needles when running on gas.

wouldnt that foul the plugs? or are we only talking a couple litres

[mark2]

wouldnt that foul the plugs? or are we only talking a couple litres

I'ts only 5-10 litres at a time at about 75:1 ratio. Never had a problem with plug fouling. The worst thing I ever found for plug fouling was a lead replacment additive I used to use in my 2A 2.25. Cant remember the name but it was sold in little bottles at most service stations.

[Bigbjorn]

Racor used to make plant that would separate and filter waste oil and meter it to your bulk fuel supply in a ratio determined by you.


OUR CUMMINS ENGINES ON THE BOAT USED TO HAVE AN OIL FILTRATION SYSTEM THAT MIXED THE USED SUMP OIL AND PUT IT THRU THE FUEL SYSTEM TO BE RE-BURNT.THE RATIO WAS 60LTR SUMP OIL TO 6000LTS DEISEL...AFTER HAVING THE SYSTEM FOR 6 MTHS AND SEEING THE CLOUR OF THE FUEL FILTERS AFTER 100HRS RUNNING, AND THE FUEL THAT DRAINED OUT OF THEM THE SYSTEM WENT IN THE SHED NEVER TO BE USED AGAIN..
I WOULDN'T ADD OIL OF ANY SORT TO MY FUEL SYSTEM,EVEN IN THE SMALLEST AMOUNTS..

CHEERS EAN

Ean, I know major truck fleets that have been doing this for decades without ill effects. The separation and filtration systems used are usually to a higher standard than the OEM system supplied with engines. all major diesel engine manufacturers approved this. I think the emissions regulations have put this idea out of favour in recent years.

I change the oil, Valvoline 20/50, in my Falcon ute every 5000 k's and it is a slight brown colour by then. I pour it into My County-Isuzu as fuel.

By the way, if you are using the toilet roll filters, you may as well strain your fuel or engine oil through an Afghan's loin cloth for all the filtration they do. The nice shiny ones look very decorative hung on the outside of a truck but they don't filter. The engine oil rolls get nice and dirty like anything soaked in dirty sump oil will but the rolls simply channel at first use and the fluid just runs through. You can replace the toilet rolls with a filter element but why? You already have (or should have) adequate filtration to the standard required by the engine maker. As an example, at White Motor all OZ built trucks were fitted with a Luberfiner by-pass filter as standard equipment. Detroit Diesel and Caterpillar were OK with this but did say that the equipment was un-necessary as it did not add any better filtration to the manufacturers system. Cummins, who owned Fleetguard at the time wanted it. Nice little earner for them.

[Crackerjack]

I tip all my left over outboard fuel (2 stroke premix) into my 110 V8's fuel tank as I prefer the outboard to have fresh fuel every trip........it might even give the benefit of leaving some residual lubrication on the SU carby needles when running on gas.

Did you notice any difference in the running in general?

[mark2]

Did you notice any difference in the running in general?

The outboard certainly runs better with fresh fuel every time - it's very sensitive to fuel freshness in terms of starting and idling.

I notice no difference with the V8 with some 2 stroke oil in the petrol, the main reason for doing it is simply to use the surplus 2 stroke fuel, however while it might give the benefit of better cylnder wall lubrication on cold startup and residual lube for carb needles when running on lpg, its not my intention to be an advocate for 'adding 2 stroke oil to 4 stroke petrol engines'! I have also run surplus 2 stroke fuel in a honda 4 stroke generator for hours on end with no issues, but again, only to avoid throwing fuel away.

For what its worth, I also add some 2 stroke oil to the fuel tanks of my various diesel engines (Nissan TD42, Kubota ride on mower and 50 year old B414 tractor) from time to time - sometimes it seems to make a difference, but I am also aware of placebo effects and the limitations of human perception, in any case I'm confident that it does no harm.......

[rick130]

The outboard certainly runs better with fresh fuel every time - it's very sensitive to fuel freshness in terms of starting and idling.

[snip]


Ditto with my chainsaws.

Back in another lifetime when I raced karts, we always dumped the surplus fuel into the tow vehicle, in my case a V8 Commodore.
The smell of R30 wafting across a set of lights made people look :D
Any excess/out of date saw fuel ends up in the tank of the old Falcon that lives here ATM, i'm sure a small amount of Motul 800 2T won't hurt.

[Bigbjorn]

I tell people that petrol loses startability after about three months and they don't believe me. Modern unleaded fuels lose it quicker than the fuels of the past.

[rick130]

Absolutely Brian, I dump my two stroke fuel after about six weeks, often before.

The volatile parts of unleaded petrol disappear really quickly unless it's stored in a steel, airtight container. HDPE (plastic) fuel jugs and tanks are pretty porous to the aromatic/volatile compounds in the fuel.

[Crackerjack]

My BMW 735 sat on the drive for 9 months, never started, put the battery back in and started instantly, I put that down to a good car, but the old petrol seemed to make no difference whatsoever.

[johnb44]

i decided to try out the 2 stroke in the fuel mix on my last trip adding 200-1 mix of castrol t to my fuel
last time i went to melbourne from hervey bay i was getting about 920 km from 88-90 litres with the 2 stroke oil i was getting 950 km to 80 litres sitting on 100-110kph most of the time the one tank i didnt put it in i went back to 900km from 88 litres so as far as im concered over a 6 fill trip going from hervey bay to gisborne then melbourne then ballarat, melbourne ,lakes entrance , merimbula , hervey bay via goondawindi then across to lismore due to the floods then home i will definatly keep using it on trips . with each tank i went through a major city like brisbane ,sydney ,melbourne ,canberra :cool:

[Grumpy]

OK, people have mentioned 2 stroke oils (air cooled??) and marine 2 stroke oils.
Stupid question what does every one use and why? :confused::confused:
I started using a 2 stroke oil it was ok the first tank, the second it started smoking (used the recomended dose) quite heavily on takeoff and medium acceleration around corners. Once started under load not much to see. If any? Changed back to the standard ecu and it still smokes lightly. never used to before even with the chip.
Definately quieter.

Tony :wheelchair:

[wozzlegummich]

I remember back in my Go_Kart racing days my engine builder used to warn against using too much oil in two strokes. this would cause what they called a cold seize.

The theory went that by adding extra oil you would in fact be leaning the engine out too much by upsetting the oil/fuel ratio.

Seems logical this may apply to additives in diesels as well?

[crash]

Have tried 2stroke over about 4 tankfuls now, First tank I saw an improvement of 80km over my average distance / tank. The last 3 tankfulls have had no improvement on economy when compared to original economy before adding 2T. Performance seemed to be the same.