Td5 Defender fuel pump answers

[nornalup]

Ok the fuel pump issue, I'm about to put in my 4th with 150k on the clock. Let me say from the onset I have a 127L long range tank. All of mine have failed with what starts out as a louder and louder whine, soon followed by starting problems. If I can get it to start I have never had one actually stop me while I'm driving (seem a loss of power though).

What I know about them;

1. They seem very sensitive and fail easily due to;
- Any blockage from bad fuel or debris in the tank.
- Cavitaion caused to air in the system which occurs through connection plugs at top of pump, at a porous seal on top of fuel filter or through injector seals leaking air back into the fuel system. Cant be from a split fuel hose as the whole system is under 4 bar of pressure(??).

2. They are expensive to replace (around $800), with a part that has not had an upgraded design. Aftermarket pumps are cheaper if ordered direct through the UK.

3. You do it once then cut an access hole in the floor. Otherwise dropping and refitting tank will result in brocken fuel hoses with fixed one piece connections.

Could anyone help me with the following;

1. Does a Discovery pump work (it's cheaper).

2. Is there an aftermarket brand that is of higher quality?

3. There seems to be a conection with the longrange tanks and increase in failure. Anyone else with a longrange tank agree?

4. Has anyone actually repaired the pump itself.

5. What is the longterm fix, apart from an external pump as I have read on serveral forums guy's doing.

Any discussion on this would be great as I'm lost on this and this problem has caused me a huge amount of drama and financial cost. Thanks in advance for any input.

Brett.

[Psimpson7]

1. Does a Discovery pump work (it's cheaper). sender calibration will probably be wrong for gauge. depth of pump may also be wrong

2. Is there an aftermarket brand that is of higher quality? not to my knowledge, and some of them are probably even worse.

3. There seems to be a conection with the longrange tanks and increase in failure. Anyone else with a longrange tank agree? from what I have read I would agree. I am sure somewhere I read some comments that issue may be down to the fact that the plastic tank is kinder on the pump withr egard to flexing and so on.

4. Has anyone actually repaired the pump itself. nope

5. What is the longterm fix, apart from an external pump as I have read on serveral forums guy's doing. I would consider going to an external pump but it wouldnt really be that much cheaper by the time you had done it the first time, although the pump would no doubt be more reliable, so would save money in the long run. You would also ned to make sure you could keep the self bleeding set up, and be aware that fuel is filtered twice through the fuel filter.



My comments in red

[Blknight.aus]

The disco pump will work, its the same but on a slightly longer frame.

as near as i can work out most of the long range tanks are steel tanks and steel tanks are marginally more prone to depositing junk into the fuel as well as being maringally more prone to developing diesel snot. diesel snot once injested into the pump will end it quickly.

I have 2 dead pumps and have on an on and off basis been experimenting with differnt styles of pumps to modify it with. I'm yet to come up with a locally provided solution that is doable in a typical home garage that has the reliability Id like to see, is near enough in performance as to make no difference to the fuel system and is cheaper than importing a pump from the UK. I have had some limited sucess with what I would call a temporary get you out of trouble fix but it bypasses the inital filtering and Im not sure that its going to be a viable medium term fix so I havent published anything about that yet.

the best long term fix I have come up with is similar to the efforts of the guys on other forums and involve replacing several parts of the fuel system but should provide a long term answer with better serviceability than the existing system. BUT...

1. my fuel pump hasnt failed so I havent had a need to try out what Ive theorised
2. I dont know of anyone that can do without their td5 on the road while I gin around sorting a new fuel system.

[nornalup]

Thanks for the input guy's. Just how many of these have guys had go on them? Am I an exception? Reason for asking is that perhaps I have a issue that is causing the pumps to fail (3 in the last 40k, although this has been over 3.5 years). The reason could be;

1. Algae and crap in the tank. I did have this cause one failure after I started using a fual additive and it sent all black slugde loose.

2. Bad fuel. I don't think this is the issue as i fill up from same place EVERY time on an account. No one else, including dozens of farmers using machinery, have had an issue. No jerry cans and for gods sake what the heck would happen to them in places like Africa filling from a rusty 44.

3. An air leak in the system. It's not a fuel hose as my theory is as the system is under a pressure meaning a hole letting air in would be detected by diesel leaking out. The exception to this is an air leak at the top of fuel filter and at the seals on the injector. From forums the later would be detected by fuel leaking into the oil, which you would smell at the dip stick. The former would be fixed by replacing the fuel filter and seal, which I do on a regular basis.

4. A really poor designed pump combined with the long range stainless steal tank. But this goes back to the question of how common an issue is it. Two dealers and a spare parts supplier in WA tell me they get a few disco but not really any defender fuel pump failures:o

5. An electrical issue causing the pump to work harder than it has too. Jeez I don't want to even think about testing and solving this one.

Perhaps I've been really unlucky and 4th time lucky. But I'm really not keen just to throw another $800 pump in her and hope.

Brett.

[nornalup]

Ok just an update from our local dealer. Original pumps are now priced at $1090 for part only (no fitting). He believed they have been superceeded by an updated part but could not say wether they have improved part or simply changed part #.

[Psimpson7]

I had a genuine 90 one landed from the UK for under 550$ about 5 months ago.

[nornalup]

Thanks, do you remember who from, most I have looked at in the UK online are aftermarket. The other option is to fit a discovery one, although it's said it can be done I have not heard of anyone that has actually done it to their own vehicle.

[BilboBoggles]

One thing to check is the breather system for the tank, if the tank breather is blocked the air pressure drops inside the tank, which can cause cavitation. Check the breather is not blocked with mud.

I've had a 127 LRA tank in mine for 180,000 on it's original and still silent pump.

[BilboBoggles]

Oh - Also I've never let the tank get below the red light, so there's always at least 30 l in the tank, I've read that if you get the tanks too low with a Long range tank then the pump can get too hot.

[Psimpson7]

Thanks, do you remember who from, most I have looked at in the UK online are aftermarket. The other option is to fit a discovery one, although it's said it can be done I have not heard of anyone that has actually done it to their own vehicle.

UK main dealer near where my brother works. He posted it over so that also included VAT. Direct they should be able to match that.

A d90 pump from the dealer on the Gold Coast is about 1900$ last time I checked.

I destroyed one due to my stupidity, and the one I bought recently is just a spare for trips

[nornalup]

Where abouts is the pump breather located. I thought the air purge (with breather) was located at the top of the fuel filter:confused: Thanks for the info.

[Blknight.aus]

theres nothing wrong with the design of the pump, mines 170K km and still makes book flow at book amps..

the short list of things that will kill them

a bad earth or other electrical connection
bad fuel
bad installation
low fuel level
restrictions in the low pressure lines
the fuel pressure regulator stuck wide open
leaks in the tanks internal plumbing allowing areated fuel into the tank
water in the fuel
diesel snot
Some fuel addatives (elchepo anti waxing addatives mainly)
Dry running the pump
low voltage running
cavitating or starving the pump
Impacting the pump housing


If youve had diesel snot once and you havent completely and utterly drained cleaned flushed drained treated doesed disinfected steralised and otherwise gone to stupidly outrageous efforts to get rid of it chances are that youve recontaminated the system.

[Psimpson7]

Where abouts is the pump breather located. I thought the air purge (with breather) was located at the top of the fuel filter:confused: Thanks for the info.

NSR wheel arch from memory

I ruined mine by running it out of fuel half way up my parents farm drive and driving it home on the started motor:eek: (500m or so)

[Bundalene]

Hi,

Firstly, the Discovery pump fits just fine. There is about a 5mm difference in length - neither here or there. Simply swap the sender which unclips, cut the 2 wires and resolder and heatshrink. I have done this and it works OK.

As for the pump failures, have you checked the filters at the base of the pump - are you sure this isnt just blocked. They are easily removed and cleaned, once the pump has been removed.

As mentioned before, I suspect you have an algae problem and should probably remove your tank, clean it thoroughly and then use a diesel algaecide. The source may be the servo where you refuel.

Our D2 with a steel 145 litre tank with over 250,000kms has it's original pump - touch wood

Good luck. Erich

[spudboy]

I've got a noisy fuel pump in my 130 with a LongRanger 127L tank.

The pump sits on the bottom of the sloping tank, and I reckon that the last 10-15 litres is not really usable because of the slope of the bottom of the tank.

When you run it close to empty (i.e. down to 10-15 litres left) it starts to make whining noises which I imagine is air getting into the system.

My thoughts on a fix are, to cut a circle from the bottom of the tank and make a 'sump' for the fuel to sit in, and the pump to go down into. It would only have to be 2 or 3 inches deep, and it would have to have a level or "flat" bottom (i.e. horizontal - not sloped). This would let you use fuel down to the last 2 or 3 litres, and keep the pump submerged for longer when the tank nears empty.

That's my 2 cents.
David

[nornalup]

Ok so pulled the tank out and the filter on the bottom and second filter inside the pump housing you could not even see they had that much algae coating them.

I have a hole cut in the floor and I can't drop the tank were I am right now so I've cleaned the pump, scooped out all the tank and wil refit and refill tank and try to see if the pump is working or has gone.

Will have to either run an algacide additive through the tank or the pump is stuffed I will just drop it and do it properly. Fingers crossed that the pump has servived.

I wish i had stopped and done this 1000km ago when it started screaming, only drama was that I was I the way to Perth for a family funeral and had to race back for work.

Thanks for your help guy's.

[Fraz]

if im not too late to help, I replaced my pump when i first got my td5 (about 5 months ago).

It was making a terrible whir sound. I first pulled it out (bitch of a job with a 127L tank) and ran it off a jumpstarter in a bucket full of turps. Refitted and it worked for a while, but not recommended as problem returned within one tank of diesel.

Picked up a brand new pump by Allmakes from BMI in Windsor - Sydney - $430

There must be an ongoing issue with mine, cos it started off well, but now making the same sound as before - but its alot quieter.

And for what its worth, they are NOT repairable. The motor cannot be opened.

If I had to do it again (touching wood here) I would drop the tank, cut a sweet hole for the future (again with the wood), drain, clean and install new pump. Then somehow completley FILL the tank and start the pump.
It sounded terrible when I first ran it cos it was dry.

Hopefully helpful...
Fraz

[nornalup]

Ok so cleaned it all, refitted and after a hard go restarting it's away and running 100% (although i have not tested the pressure). Ive added a biocide and plan to drop the tank and clean everything after a tank of fuel. I just hope that the pump has serviced and will not die in the near future. Thanks for your input, I've learn't a heck of alot in the last week about this and glad I just didn't pay another mechanic to throw another pump into her.

[George130]

I have long range tanks. Pump screamed for 2 years. I left it due to everyone saying it was on it's last legs. In the end I pulled it out cleaned it and put it back in. Silent as now and still going. It's bee in the for at least 230,000km that I know of.

[Jordos D2]

my 2 cents my brother and i pulled mine outa my 01 td5 disco pulled bits off it cleaned it put it back to gether again and now its as quite as its ever been

[scott oz]

I believe that one of the site sponsers "OZ Explore / Explore OZ" has an external pump solution for the 110 TD5.

[applemac]

theres nothing wrong with the design of the pump, mines 170K km and still makes book flow at book amps..

the short list of things that will kill them

a bad earth or other electrical connection
bad fuel
bad installation
low fuel level
restrictions in the low pressure lines
the fuel pressure regulator stuck wide open
leaks in the tanks internal plumbing allowing areated fuel into the tank
water in the fuel
diesel snot
Some fuel addatives (elchepo anti waxing addatives mainly)
Dry running the pump
low voltage running
cavitating or starving the pump
Impacting the pump housing


If youve had diesel snot once and you havent completely and utterly drained cleaned flushed drained treated doesed disinfected steralised and otherwise gone to stupidly outrageous efforts to get rid of it chances are that youve recontaminated the system.

Is there a particular fuel additive that you'd recommend ?
Every now and then I use a product from Chemtech "Diesel Power"
Fuel Additives (http://www.chemtech.net.au/page5.html)