Towing

[e3j]

I have an 04 Disco 2 TD5 auto.

Not having towed before with a LR, I'm aiming to tow an approx 1 tonne van. Now I know there's no problem with the weight, just wondering what the recommended gear is for towing. Just leave it in Drive, or hold it in 3rd? Up to 100kph, mostly good roads but some fairly steep hills. Ta muchly.

[Fluids]

That'll be fine ... (Drive, that is), however, if your using cruise (or not) best to downshift to 3rd far enough before the bigger hills so the transmission has a chance to get 3rd locked up before you're going up the hill ... cruise is reactive, not pro-active ... so by the time cruise starts to gas on, you've lost too much momentum going up the bigger hills, and it will want to kick down 1 or 2 gears and rev its tits off trying to maintain road speed ... Drive (4th) is an overdrive at about 0.74:1, whereas 3rd is a 1:1 ratio.

Kev..

[Blknight.aus]

what he said with the following caveat.

if its over a ton over tare mass and its around town or on hills lock it in 3rd.

[Slunnie]

1t isnt much on the back of a D2.

What works even better is towing with the transmission in sports mode. It wont hang onto gears as long before shifting into a lower gear and you don't have to think about manually shifting.

[mousie]

I'm 1.4t Swan Outback and I just drive normally and agree on the above cruise control. It has become natural for me to get to 82klm then off the throttle to allow the lock and then apply the load again and off to the 100 mark.

You will get used to how much torque is available from the above technique without kicking back to third. Cheers

[Skellz]

I have a 2002 TD5 and my cruise control will not work if I am towing is that normal. When I am not towing it works fine

:D:D:D:D:D

[feral]

1t isnt much on the back of a D2.

What works even better is towing with the transmission in sports mode. It wont hang onto gears as long before shifting into a lower gear and you don't have to think about manually shifting.


And a chipped Td5 is better again. It adds a whole new layer of functionality. More power, more torque and it will give you the ability to stay locked in 4th longer without hunting for a gear or undue labouring of the engine.

[Slunnie]

I have a 2002 TD5 and my cruise control will not work if I am towing is that normal. When I am not towing it works fine

:D:D:D:D:D
Thats not normal.


And a chipped Td5 is better again. It adds a whole new layer of functionality. More power, more torque and it will give you the ability to stay locked in 4th longer without hunting for a gear or undue labouring of the engine.

Actually yeah! I find that too. The chips make them want to hang on to gears too much.

[jaseh]

1t isnt much on the back of a D2.

What works even better is towing with the transmission in sports mode. It wont hang onto gears as long before shifting into a lower gear and you don't have to think about manually shifting.

Thats how I drive mine with our Jayco Swan (onroad) on the back which is about 1T. I leave it in normal while on the flats and moderate hills that I know it will climb in 4th LU but when its a winding rd, lots of hills or big climbs I put it in sport mode. I was shifting it back to 3rd and getting it to LU but I find sport mode works just as well.

[Grumpy]

I tow a two tonne van and have just had the gearbox overhauled
214,000 kays. The converter was stuffed!!
Was told by the ZF service blokes in no uncertain terms when going up a steep hill drop back to third and use that lockup. Do not leave it in fourth. Been told that third l/up is in the box and fourth l/up is in the torque converter and it over heats if worked to hard.
My light never came on.
If you listen closely in sport all the four gears and overdrive are being used. At least thats what it sound like.
Don't forget the van is 2 tonne.

Tony :wheelchair::wheelchair:
Jees now there is two of me

[Blknight.aus]

for starters Id forgoten about the sports mode thing.... yep thats a good idea especially for freeway running (up to say 85-90kph) and on slight "hills" sports mode basically puts the box into "power to the ground NOW" mode. so it will hold the lower gears for longer but still change up to the tall gears when very low engine torque numbers are required. It will also change down more aggressively.

I still recommend locking it back to 3rd for big climbs or if your going to be toodling round the burbs as it will stop the box from going up into fourth on the over run which will increase your ability to engine brake which saves on normal brakes and IMHO is a much better way to be driving.

for grumpy.

I dont know who told you that the lockup for the gears was in the box its all done in the torque converter. ITs basically a clutch in the TC that when the box decides that engine speed is near enough to gearbox speed input speed that the 2 primary rotating parts of the TC can be locked together because the TC is basically just wasting energy.

[dobbo]

i have produced an overspeed fault manually shifting downhill whilst towing in 3rd and being pushed by a loaded float, just use the magic button it's safer.

[Disco44]

And a chipped Td5 is better again. It adds a whole new layer of functionality. More power, more torque and it will give you the ability to stay locked in 4th longer without hunting for a gear or undue labouring of the engine.

One dealer told me that a chipped TD5 runs hotter.Is that true?
John.

[Blknight.aus]

your not supposed to down shift it out of third...

you put it in 3rd climb the hill then leave it in third or....

your supposed to slow down using the brakes and then when the vehicles speed is low enough to accept a down shift then shift it down to a lower gear.

sort of like...

be in the correct gear for the upcoming terrain before you get there.
tighten up the wheelnuts.
dont snatch on the rust mounted bull bar
dont attempt to out do canaveral in a D2.

you know common sense stuff... :p

[reciprovac]

I have a chipped Disco two TD5 Auto and tow a 18ft dual wheel jayco and would never consider using anything than 3rd gear.
Any higher is an overdrive ratio and puts to much strain on the transmission,this applies to other makes of Autos also (Nissan patrols for example).
You could slip into 4th on downhills,but my advice from specialists is to use 3rd which also keeps the oil circulating faster and prevents overheating plus minimises transmission loadings.
Regards

[feral]

Flaming heck....the fuel bill must be enormous or you putt 'round at 70kph.:o


That certainly has not been my experience.

I have posted this information before and the results were staggering. I had to tow my van @ 1400kg from Coff's to Melbourne with a pressurized headgasket. It was found that if I sat at 80 kph it would last longer before stopping to check coolant levels. It would only spit out the coolant and not overheat.

Now I have a Madman which is an engine monitoring system. It monitors water temp and auto temp amongst other things. With the pressurized head and travelling at 80 kph, water temps stayed normal but the auto temp sat around 88 degrees. The auto temp is the same as if I was in start/stop traffic.

Before the car had its problem and after it was all fixed the auto temp sits at about 44 degrees travelling at 100kph. This is 4th converter locked.

This is normal operating temperature. I know what gear and speed I would rather be doing.

[Slunnie]

Absolutely. The TC needs to be locked otherwise it is producing heat. That can happen at about 80km/h in 4th. I cant recall where lockup is in 3rd, 60km/h or something.

Anyway, its not 3rd and 4th that are the worry from my experiences with the ZF, its 1st notably and 2nd.

I used to have a V6 frontera years ago.When the tranny on that got warm it used to just lock the TC while trying to drop the temps.

[jaseh]

Today while driving home from Sydney along the freeway towing my camper in sport mode it would come out of lockup in 4th at about 100kph, then drop back to 3rd and almost instantly go to lockup at about 90kph and I held 90kph in 3rd lockup on every hill between Sydney and the Freemans drive turnoff.

[dobbo]

your not supposed to down shift it out of third...

you put it in 3rd climb the hill then leave it in third or....

your supposed to slow down using the brakes and then when the vehicles speed is low enough to accept a down shift then shift it down to a lower gear.

sort of like...

be in the correct gear for the upcoming terrain before you get there.
tighten up the wheelnuts.
dont snatch on the rust mounted bull bar
dont attempt to out do canaveral in a D2.

you know common sense stuff... :p

Who me?

I was

With brakes hot and squealing and trailer pushing down hill to the extent that the car was picking up speed rapidly, I had shifted the car to 3rd at a sensible speed but still got pushed enough to produce a momentary overspeed. The car got new brakes the next day.

[Grumpy]

for starters Id forgoten about the sports mode thing.... yep thats a good idea especially for freeway running (up to say 85-90kph) and on slight "hills" sports mode basically puts the box into "power to the ground NOW" mode. so it will hold the lower gears for longer but still change up to the tall gears when very low engine torque numbers are required. It will also change down more aggressively.

I still recommend locking it back to 3rd for big climbs or if your going to be toodling round the burbs as it will stop the box from going up into fourth on the over run which will increase your ability to engine brake which saves on normal brakes and IMHO is a much better way to be driving.

for grumpy.

I dont know who told you that the lockup for the gears was in the box its all done in the torque converter. ITs basically a clutch in the TC that when the box decides that engine speed is near enough to gearbox speed input speed that the 2 primary rotating parts of the TC can be locked together because the TC is basically just wasting energy.

There is another thread somewhere that relates to my original problems.
This current thread of mine was wrongly worded. The blokes who originally overhauled the box insinuated they were ZF agents. They were the ones who told me that third was locked in the box and fourth in the TC. Did not quite make sense to me but, who am I.
It wasnt until I rang the ZF office over here in Perth that I found where the true agents were. Took the vehicle to them with my sob story and the problems are well and truely fixed and only cost me $300 towards their Xmas party. :angel: The other mob are footing the bulk of it about $3500.

Incidently Feral, Did a tow test over 1200km in third and there was very little difference in consumption to what I get in fourth. The whole trip was close on 2200km. In fact, sometimes it was a little better?

Tony :wheelchair: [Grumpy]

[StephenF10]

I tow a 1500kg poptop with a D2 TD5 auto, usually at 85-90 km/hr. After a bit of trial and error with various combinations of gear ratio, sport mode and cruise control I tow in 4th only on the flat with no headwind and cc off. I don't want to put a whole lot of torque through 4th for long periods so I use sport mode, which changes down earlier than normal on any slight incline. The only problem with sport mode is that sometimes it doesn't want to change back to 4th, even when it could.

In gently undulating country I use 3rd with sport mode off and usually with cc on. I find that it results in a less stressful trip for car and driver as 3rd can handle moderate hills and you don't have to row the car along on the gear selector. When it gets hilly I turn the cc off and leave it in 3rd. It doesn't use any more fuel in 3rd as I proved on a couple of trips between Adelaide and Echuca.

The fact is that the D2 ideally needs another gear between 3rd and 4th for towing. At 90 km/hr the motor is revving at just under 3000 in 3rd and about 2200 in 4th. Something like 2500-2600 seems about right.

Stephen.

[feral]

Incidently Feral, Did a tow test over 1200km in third and there was very little difference in consumption to what I get in fourth. The whole trip was close on 2200km. In fact, sometimes it was a little better?

Tony :wheelchair: [Grumpy]


I tow a 1500kg poptop with a D2 TD5 auto, usually at 85-90 km/hr. After a bit of trial and error with various combinations of gear ratio, sport mode and cruise control I tow in 4th only on the flat with no headwind and cc off. I don't want to put a whole lot of torque through 4th for long periods so I use sport mode, which changes down earlier than normal on any slight incline. The only problem with sport mode is that sometimes it doesn't want to change back to 4th, even when it could.

In gently undulating country I use 3rd with sport mode off and usually with cc on. I find that it results in a less stressful trip for car and driver as 3rd can handle moderate hills and you don't have to row the car along on the gear selector. When it gets hilly I turn the cc off and leave it in 3rd. It doesn't use any more fuel in 3rd as I proved on a couple of trips between Adelaide and Echuca.

The fact is that the D2 ideally needs another gear between 3rd and 4th for towing. At 90 km/hr the motor is revving at just under 3000 in 3rd and about 2200 in 4th. Something like 2500-2600 seems about right.

Stephen.


I tow a two tonne van and have just had the gearbox overhauled
214,000 kays. The converter was stuffed!!
Was told by the ZF service blokes in no uncertain terms when going up a steep hill drop back to third and use that lockup. Do not leave it in fourth. Been told that third l/up is in the box and fourth l/up is in the torque converter and it over heats if worked to hard.
My light never came on.
If you listen closely in sport all the four gears and overdrive are being used. At least thats what it sound like.
Don't forget the van is 2 tonne.

Tony :wheelchair::wheelchair:
Jees now there is two of me



It appears that I may have misled some of you and the thread has turned into a economy drive.

I can assure you that was not my intent.:mad:

The auto oil temperatures that I have collected clearly shows that the transmission is operating normally and is running at a cooler temperature when using 4th gear converter locked. The auto is running cooler and therefore is not under strain. Used sensibly, I also drop into 3rd when approaching a rise because it is all about momentum and keeping the thing rolling.

I cannot see how when anyone can run around all day in 3rd, approaching that big hill at 80 - 90 kph and claim that their auto temps are lower and putting less strain on their transmission because of it.

I have the temperature evidence, it has been back by others here and the opposing view does not make sense.

[StephenF10]

It appears that I may have misled some of you and the thread has turned into a economy drive.

I can assure you that was not my intent.:mad:

The auto oil temperatures that I have collected clearly shows that the transmission is operating normally and is running at a cooler temperature when using 4th gear converter locked. The auto is running cooler and therefore is not under strain. Used sensibly, I also drop into 3rd when approaching a rise because it is all about momentum and keeping the thing rolling.

I cannot see how when anyone can run around all day in 3rd, approaching that big hill at 80 - 90 kph and claim that their auto temps are lower and putting less strain on their transmission because of it.

I have the temperature evidence, it has been back by others here and the opposing view does not make sense.

You say that the auto is cooler in 4th locked than when unlocked at a slower speed (which makes sense) but why wouldn't that also be the case in 3rd locked? In both cases a major source of heat (slipping torque converter) has been eliminated.

As for strain, the motor has to produce MORE input torque for a given output torque when in overdrive, which is why I am happy to use 3rd more than 4th when towing.

Stephen.

[Slunnie]

2000rpm is the torque sweet spot.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

The fact is that the D2 ideally needs another gear between 3rd and 4th for towing. At 90 km/hr the motor is revving at just under 3000 in 3rd and about 2200 in 4th. Something like 2500-2600 seems about right.

Stephen.

Spot On!!
a 6 speed auto (:wub:)with 6th at the current ratio (.8?)
THEN spread the rest down to the current 1st which is fine when towing.

I wonder if this is possible?:angel:

[feral]

You say that the auto is cooler in 4th locked than when unlocked at a slower speed (which makes sense) but why wouldn't that also be the case in 3rd locked? In both cases a major source of heat (slipping torque converter) has been eliminated.

As for strain, the motor has to produce MORE input torque for a given output torque when in overdrive, which is why I am happy to use 3rd more than 4th when towing.

Stephen.

Makes sense but it looks like I will have to have a little test session the next time I hookup the van.

Not looking forward to putting around at 90kph. I just wonder how many more times the kids will say 'Are we there yet?' :p

[StephenF10]

Makes sense but it looks like I will have to have a little test session the next time I hookup the van.

Not looking forward to putting around at 90kph. I just wonder how many more times the kids will say 'Are we there yet?' :p

I would be very interested to see the results, in 3rd and 4th both locked and unlocked.

Stephen.

[jaseh]

My D2 revs harder in 4th than it does in 3rd lockup. Pulls about 3000rpm doing 90kph in 4th and drops to about 2800 in 3rd lockup. Common sense tells me which is best for pulling up a hill for both engine and tranny.

If your auto doesn't want to go back to 4th at the top of a climb, hit the button and put it back to normal mode, it'll drop into 4th almost instantly and then put it back in sport.