Maxi drive reduction gears

[crump]

Finally got to use them in anger on the weekend and was very happy BUT they howl like a hyena (for those that have never heard a hyena howl, think frozen dog and chainsaw):eek:. Supposedly Cog cognisant folk I have spoke to have said that is due to the new gear meeting the slightly worn gear.What are the experiences of other installees?

[justinc]

Finally got to use them in anger on the weekend and was very happy BUT they howl like a hyena (for those that have never heard a hyena howl, think frozen dog and chainsaw):eek:. Supposedly Cog cognisant folk I have spoke to have said that is due to the new gear meeting the slightly worn gear.What are the experiences of other installees?

Crump IIRC they are straight cut gears, therefore not any different in design to reverse gears in most vehicles. Is it a similar noise?
Helical cut gears are almost silent by comparison.
JC

[Bush65]

Finally got to use them in anger on the weekend and was very happy BUT they howl like a hyena (for those that have never heard a hyena howl, think frozen dog and chainsaw):eek:. Supposedly Cog cognisant folk I have spoke to have said that is due to the new gear meeting the slightly worn gear.What are the experiences of other installees?
I had the 30% reduction gears. They whine because the new low range gear set use spur gears (straight cut), unlike the original helical gears.

There are 2 new gears for low range. Whoever said there was a new gear meshing with a slightly worn gear is talking out of where the sun doesn't shine.

[crump]

yep sounds like reverse whine just louder, so its normal??

[isuzurover]

My 49% gears are getting finished off as we speak!!!

[justinc]

Yes i'm afraid they are quite noisy:(

JC

[crump]

My 49% gears are getting finished off as we speak!!!
Thought you were getting 30%? Make sure you specify loudly:(, I asked for 49% and got 30% anyway, too late when the box was back here.:mad:

[isuzurover]

Thought you were getting 30%? Make sure you specify loudly:(, I asked for 49% and got 30% anyway, too late when the box was back here.:mad:

I asked for 49% - we will see what turns up. I have to grind part of the case down to only 3mm thick to fit the 49% gears!!!

[cewilson]

You get used to the noise - or turn the radio up.....

[Disco_owner]

Is there any Grinding of the Transfer case housing with 30% reduction gears?

[isuzurover]

Is there any Grinding of the Transfer case housing with 30% reduction gears?

Yes - not much difference in diameter between the 30% and 49% gears apparently. However it isn't a big area to grind.

[Blknight.aus]

there is some noise associated with the mismatch contact of worn gears to new ones. Its similar to the howl you get from the diff if you pooch the setup on the CWP of one of them.

however as already alluded to most of the noise from the reduction drive sets is because they have a square cut set in there

[Bigbjorn]

"You ain't heard nothin" yet". If they are spur gears, then they are noisy. Wait until you have a ride in a Bugatti with straight cut centreline crownwheel and pinion in the diff and an all spur geared transmission..

I used to own an old Buffalo Pitts MT4 drill press with a reduction gear train of straight bevel gear pair and changeable spur gears. Feed box was also spur geared. It could be heard over any and all other machines in the shop. It weighed nearly 3/4 ton.

[Tusker]

Yes - not much difference in diameter between the 30% and 49% gears apparently. However it isn't a big area to grind.

Don't think so, pretty sure 30% go straight in, its only with the 49s that the case needs attention.

I've has both.

Regards
Max P

[Bush65]

there is some noise associated with the mismatch contact of worn gears to new ones. Its similar to the howl you get from the diff if you pooch the setup on the CWP of one of them.

however as already alluded to most of the noise from the reduction drive sets is because they have a square cut set in there
I don't know where you or others are getting this rubbish from.

When the 30% or 49% reduction low range gears are fitted into an LT230, NO new gears are meshed with worn gears. The are 2 new gears but they only run in mesh with each other.

[Bush65]

Is there any Grinding of the Transfer case housing with 30% reduction gears?


Yes - not much difference in diameter between the 30% and 49% gears apparently. However it isn't a big area to grind.


Don't think so, pretty sure 30% go straight in, its only with the 49s that the case needs attention.

I've has both.

Regards
Max P
When I fitted the 30% reduction gears (49% was not available back then), I had to grind a fair bit of aluminium from some bosses (for bolt holes) on the inside of the gear case. I can't recall reducing the thickness of the gear case wall in any area, but may have in a small area - I still have the instruction sheets, but can't be bothered to look them up.

It was also necessary to grind a fair bit of material from a section of the steel shaft for the hi/lo selector fork (IIRC i had to remove more than indicated in the instructions). If the gear wheel for the 49% reduction set was significantly larger than for the 30% set, I don't think the shaft could survive much more material being removed.

My set came with a drill, M12 tap and M12 hexagon plug so the magnetic drain plug could be relocated clear of the new gear wheel. But my existing drain plug was much larger than M12 and fortunately I didn't have to relocate it. Others may find it necessary.

My LT230 came from a TD5 Defender.

[procrastination inc]

"You get used to the noise "

it's called "industrial deafness"

[Blknight.aus]

I don't know where you or others are getting this rubbish from.

When the 30% or 49% reduction low range gears are fitted into an LT230, NO new gears are meshed with worn gears. The are 2 new gears but they only run in mesh with each other.


because I had a brain fart and was thinking about the series box reduction units that used to be made by marks adaptors.

[isuzurover]

When I fitted the 30% reduction gears (49% was not available back then), I had to grind a fair bit of aluminium from some bosses (for bolt holes) on the inside of the gear case. I can't recall reducing the thickness of the gear case wall in any area, but may have in a small area - I still have the instruction sheets, but can't be bothered to look them up.

It was also necessary to grind a fair bit of material from a section of the steel shaft for the hi/lo selector fork (IIRC i had to remove more than indicated in the instructions). If the gear wheel for the 49% reduction set was significantly larger than for the 30% set, I don't think the shaft could survive much more material being removed.

My set came with a drill, M12 tap and M12 hexagon plug so the magnetic drain plug could be relocated clear of the new gear wheel. But my existing drain plug was much larger than M12 and fortunately I didn't have to relocate it. Others may find it necessary.

My LT230 came from a TD5 Defender.

My gears (in fact whole T-case) just arrived today - Thanks MR/Warren and Jamie!!!

To answer the tooth count issue, they are as follows:
26/41/23/72
Input/Intermediate/Low-Int/Low

Which by my calculation gives 4.94:1 low - exactly 49% lower than 3.32:1

The 30% gears are apparently
26/41/20/55

The low gear for the 49% set is only 3mm larger in overall diameter than the 30% set. 184 mm as opposed to 181 mm.

The 49% instructions are added at the back as an addendum to the 30% instructions. A fair bit more case grinding is needed compared to the 30% set. If you look at the RHS of the case from the outside, there is a small indent about halfway up. The thickness of that section is reduced to ~3 mm.

[nayto]

Slight Gravedig.......but how much did you pay for the gears +fitting?
Ive had reduction gears in other cars before, one of the best upgrades available along with lockers IMO.

[DeeJay]

I had a high speed whine in my LT95 transfer box & put in Redline oil.
It aint cheap but, no kidding, the whine has disappeared.:cool:
Done quite few thou Klm in it now too..:)

[Didge]

OK guys, I'm thoroughly confused with all this chat. Can anyone direct me to where I could find some reading material so I can educate myself on this subject? Are we talking transfer case or gearbox? I've always had a bit of a yearning to understand how gearboxes work but have no literature on the topic.
cheers gerald
yeah, I understand basic gearing but definitely no idea on auto boxes or even how manual boxes work. :P

[cal415]

Anyone got a vid of the truck with maxidrive gears in action? where you can actually hear the whine? Also what oils are poeple running with the maxi gears, as mentioned by DeeJay a good oil could make alot of difference to the noise.

[fender95vnt]

here is a link to an album which has a vid of my fender."fender on commando". You can hear the reduction gear whine. Is it like this?
http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/fender95vnt/coffs

Philip

[fender95vnt]

Sorry folks I'll try that link again. Look at the fender on commando & you will hear the whine of the reduction gears. Do yours sound like this bearing in mind some are louder than others.

coffs 2010 pictures by fender95vnt - Photobucket (http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/fender95vnt/coffs%202010/)

cheers
Philip

[rick130]

OK guys, I'm thoroughly confused with all this chat. Can anyone direct me to where I could find some reading material so I can educate myself on this subject? Are we talking transfer case or gearbox?
[snip]


LT230 t/case low range ;)
The Maxi-Drive reduction gears change the low range gearing.

These posts in this thread give you most of the info you need.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/1158370-post3.html
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/1158899-post15.html
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/1158912-post16.html
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/1173747-post19.html


There are photos on the net somewhere, although I have an old Maxi catalogue and I'm pretty sure there are photos in it that I can scan tonight/tomorrow.

[isuzurover]

For those complaining about the noise - try driving a series landie in low range ;) Same thing... straight cut gears.


Slight Gravedig.......but how much did you pay for the gears +fitting?
Ive had reduction gears in other cars before, one of the best upgrades available along with lockers IMO.

I got mine as part of a group buy on outerlimits4x4. Contract MR Automotive for current pricing.

[Didge]

Thanks rick130, I had read the messages in this thread but was looking for a good detailed explanation of the gearbox and transfer case. I think I'm probably kidding myself more than a bit in being able to do any repair work on them if I educate myself as I understand parts can be quite expensive and it's probably easier to just get reconditioned boxes and install them myself. Thanx for your help
cheers Gerald

[rick130]

I have all the tech stuff that Mal listed in his catalogue here, tooth counts, part #'s, combinations, etc.

I'll scan it all and ask Simon or Pedro where's the best place to file it.

[George130]

Anyone got a vid of the truck with maxidrive gears in action? where you can actually hear the whine? Also what oils are poeple running with the maxi gears, as mentioned by DeeJay a good oil could make alot of difference to the noise.

You have heard mine in low range.
I have have maxidrive low range in the transfer.

[disco_thrasher]

Can any one tel me the final drive of a lt 230 with 4.12 difs and 49% maxi reductions


My gears (in fact whole T-case) just arrived today - Thanks MR/Warren and Jamie!!!

To answer the tooth count issue, they are as follows:
26/41/23/72
Input/Intermediate/Low-Int/Low

Which by my calculation gives 4.94:1 low - exactly 49% lower than 3.32:1

The 30% gears are apparently
26/41/20/55

The low gear for the 49% set is only 3mm larger in overall diameter than the 30% set. 184 mm as opposed to 181 mm.

The 49% instructions are added at the back as an addendum to the 30% instructions. A fair bit more case grinding is needed compared to the 30% set. If you look at the RHS of the case from the outside, there is a small indent about halfway up. The thickness of that section is reduced to ~3 mm.

[isuzurover]

Can any one tel me the final drive of a lt 230 with 4.12 difs and 49% maxi reductions

Which gearbox and what variant (V8 or Tdi)?

49% MD reduction is 4.95:1

So 4.12 x 4.95 x 1st gear ratio

e.g. 3.6:1 first will give you 73:1

[disco_thrasher]

Sorry R380

Which gearbox and what variant (V8 or Tdi)?

49% MD reduction is 4.95:1

So 4.12 x 4.95 x 1st gear ratio

e.g. 3.6:1 first will give you 73:1

[Psimpson7]

First varies from 3.321 to 3.692 in the r380 depending on what it was fitted to.

3.692 is more common (most defenders, tdi discos etc)

3.321 was in manual v8 Disco 1's and 2's

so you will be somewhere between 67.7:1 and 75.2:1

(calcuated from )

3.32 (tc ratio) x 1.49 (reduction) x 4.12 (diffs) x (3.321 or 3.692)

[disco_thrasher]

Thanks Pete and isuzurover

[James]

I get some noise in high range with the 30% gears in my Defender.
Some one said that this is a characteristic of the low range straight cut gears when they are free spinning.
The noise is especially noticeable on over-run.

Should I be concerned or is this considered normal?

James

[isuzurover]

I get some noise in high range with the 30% gears in my Defender.
Some one said that this is a characteristic of the low range straight cut gears when they are free spinning.
The noise is especially noticeable on over-run.

Should I be concerned or is this considered normal?

James

Normal.

[fitzy]

My white rangie 30% gears
Ellis Track August 2009 Part 2 - YouTube

[noogie]

I asked for 49% - we will see what turns up. I have to grind part of the case down to only 3mm thick to fit the 49% gears!!!


Who are you ordering them from?
How much are they out of curiosity, as I want to do the same soon.

I've been told the 30% reduction gears are all you need for a deefer and they are stronger than the 50% gears.

[bitdist]

How about the Ashcroft underdrive? How does it compare price-wise and use ??

[rick130]

I think Lowranger/Wayne has an underdrive, hopefully he chimes in, or one of us can direct him here....

[Psimpson7]

I think Lowranger/Wayne has an underdrive, hopefully he chimes in, or one of us can direct him here....

I've got one too. Fantastic bit of kit.

Biggest advantage is that you dont lose the normal low range (as you do with lower range transfer gears) or mess up all ranges (as you do with 4.11's for example)

Using entirely std ratios, my 4 ranges are

1.4:1 high
3.77:1 high with underdrive
3.32:1 stock low
8.93:1 low with underdrive

total reduction is about 117:1 on mine

Disadvantages.. nothing particually serious, heavy.. another 25kgs or so on the car. more heat coming through the seat box, and cost, although the best option is rarely the cheapest!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/907.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/908.jpg

[LowRanger]

Yep,I entirely agree with Pete

I am glad I went down the road I did,and fitted the underdrive.

In a 110 you don't notice the weight,and on a Tdi the heat through the floor is about the same.
I run 35's and 4.11's as well as the underdrive and love it.My total reduction is 135:1 a bit more that Pete,due to the changed diff ratios,but I don't have the power of a TD5 to turn the big wheels and find the 4.11/12s to be great in the Tdi.One thing though,once you have driven with an underdrive,there is no going back:eek: You are addicted,they are that good and that much fun.They give you that much more control.
On a trip that Pete and I did,Pete was being held up on one particular section of track,and was making no progress,I suggested he engage the underdrive,and he was able to proceed without spinning a wheel:p
The great advantage of the underdrive,is as Pete said,that you keep your original Low/Hi range for just normal driving,and then at the flick of a lever,you have very low gearing available.The underdrive is fabulous particularly in very steep rocky terrain.I can travel over terrain,and not even need to touch the brakes,where others are having to heavily apply brakes and run the risk of loss of control,as well as vehicle damage.
The cost is the major factor,I know I saw one for sale brand new last week for $2900.But I would happily spend that again.

[fitzy]

I was running an lt95 with 4.11 gears and had endless hassles with the gears not lasting and costing heaps, I then swapped to zf,1.4 high range and 30% low with 35's. By the time I boughjt an lt230,rebuilt it put in 1.4 high and 30% the cost was about the same as an underdrive which in hind sight would have been better,I have had a few scary moments going down hill with the auto have shifted into reverse a couple of times to pull up.

[uninformed]

The underdrive is definetly a good thing, I personally would have thought that on only 35's or under you would not have the tyre traction to make use of such a low ratio, but I stand corrected by Pete and Wayne. The one thing they did not mention is you loose the ability for a pto on the LT230. I have the 49% MD gear set. I am very happy with it. The only time it seems a little to low is in sand, and this only very occasionally...I do think that for work and 4x4 the stock defender Tdi gearing could be a touch lower in High range...like 3.8's instead of 3.54 R&P, but Ashcoft dont make a Sals 3.8. The trade off would be more RPM at HWY speed...then again this may help when not traveling on falt ground at 100km/hr

My low range has been invaluable for manoeuvring my trailer numerous times....

while there MAY be a slight difference in strength from 30%-49%, I highly doubt it an issue. These gears are made from EN39B, and are being used in comp rigs. I know Tony AKA Ruff did some very hard work on a LT230 and broke some internals...the gear set was untouched.

[LowRanger]

The underdrive is definetly a good thing, I personally would have thought that on only 35's or under you would not have the tyre traction to make use of such a low ratio, but I stand corrected by Pete and Wayne. The one thing they did not mention is you loose the ability for a pto on the LT230. I have the 49% MD gear set. I am very happy with it. The only time it seems a little to low is in sand, and this only very occasionally...I do think that for work and 4x4 the stock defender Tdi gearing could be a touch lower in High range...like 3.8's instead of 3.54 R&P, but Ashcoft dont make a Sals 3.8. The trade off would be more RPM at HWY speed...then again this may help when not traveling on falt ground at 100km/hr

My low range has been invaluable for manoeuvring my trailer numerous times....

while there MAY be a slight difference in strength from 30%-49%, I highly doubt it an issue. These gears are made from EN39B, and may are being used in comp rigs. I know Tony AKA Ruff did some very hard work on a LT230 and broke some internals...the gear set was untouched.

Serg
Both Pete and I run fairly agressive tyres,and I run fairly low pressures when offroad,so get a fairly high degree of traction.The thing with the underdrive is that with the gearing as low as it is,you have a lot more possibilities to choose from,including High range with the underdrive engaged,so there is a gear for all occassions.
You are correct in the fact that you loose out on the option of a PTO or overdrive for that matter,but these are the choices we have to make for the chosen way we use our vehicles.

[wagoo]

I've got one too. Fantastic bit of kit.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/907.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/908.jpg

Pete,Wayne, Although the components are different, the design and principal of your crawler units is the same as my cobbled together crawler unit, made from parts of an old Fairey overdrive grafted to a planetary low range reduction box (Borg Warner 1339) from an early Jeep Quadratrac transfercase. Underneath the tin cover at the back of the reduction unit is a short length of splined shaft to which I was able to graft a modified Thomas winch PTO. Seeing as most of the Ashcroft crawler box internals are also made by Borg Warner,is there any chance that there is also a shaft or dog hidden behind that 6 bolt cover plate at the back?

Bill.

[Psimpson7]

Hi Bill,

Here are a couple more pics for you.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/905.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/906.jpg

cheers
Pete

[wagoo]

Thanks Pete. I also concur with you and Wayne that once spoilt by having a crawler unit with a wide selection of ratio choices, there is no going back.
My normal low 1st gear ratio is over 100:1 without crawler, and when I removed the unit recently to attend to some oil feed modifications, I felt almost naked without it.
$2900 for an Ashcroft unit seems quite respectable considering how much it expands the vehicles overall extreme terrain capabilities.
Bill.

[uninformed]

Bill, would it be possible to turn the LT230 into a 3 speed T/case?

[wagoo]

Bill, would it be possible to turn the LT230 into a 3 speed T/case?

I don't think it would be do able internally,at least not practically without changing all the gears to straight cut gears Serg. I did an external box years ago that connected the centre PTO shaft to the rear output shaft via a slim gearcase and a train of 3 standard pattern Series gears to give the Series t/case an effective 30% overdrive (2wd only) in addition to the normal low and 15% underdrive high range.
Do you have any idea how Mal Story made his Series T/case into a 3 speed on his Sidewinder? Modified 1 ton/forward control transfercase?

Bill.

PS. has anyone done a conversion whereby the high/low reduction box segment from a GQ/GU Patrol or Toy Hilux t/case has been fitted to the front of an LT230?

[mox]

Probably worth mentioning in this thread an unfinished project I have had for a while. With my uses for Defender 130 reckon it would be better with a slighly faster high range and significantly slower low. Can be achieved with LT230 from Discovery and Maxi drive low. Note though how an LT230 can be built with 1.27:1 High and 4.21 Low using only ONE PART as not supplied by Land Rover with advantage of standard non screaming helical gears in low and no grinding metal out of of case to fit them.
Starting with an LT230 that from serial number was originally in an early Rangie with Torque Flite auto. 1.003:1 high and 3.32 low. No good for Defender as high is too fast. Standard arrangement is 26 tooth input gear driving 41 tooth middle gear on cluster.
I did some looking, thinking and calculating and reckoned instead of using this, could get a 22 tooth input gear that instead drove the rear 44 tooth high range gear. ie Similar to the layout in a Series transfer box but back to front. Anyway, got a gear designed and cut for around $1,200. Without rear dogs for PTO or overdrive which would add to the cost for something I am unlikely to use.

Hopefully will get around to assemble and instal this soon. Would be interested to hear if anyone else anywhere has attempted it. Maybe a project for the likes of Ashcrofts to try.

I think the first LT230 transfer boxes had these 1.003 and 3.32 ratios. Seems to me Land Rover got the relative ratios between low and high right first time, including with 4th gear low and 1st high very similar. (ie subsequently they stuffed up!) For models requiring different ratios, it would have been better to have changed the input and central cluster gear sizes instead of changing the high range gears.

[wagoo]

I'm intrigued Mox, but I haven't got an Lt230 of any type to play with to visualise whether it would work or calculate the high/low ratios.
However, a couple of mental calculations. The distance between centres of the input shaft to intermediate shaft is the same as for the output shaft and intermediate shaft. In that case the tooth count required on the input shaft to do what you say would be the same as the high range gear on the centre diff. Why not machine the teeth off the original input gear and have a centre diff high range gear electron beam welded to it instead of having a new gear cut?
bill.

[Bush65]

...
PS. has anyone done a conversion whereby the high/low reduction box segment from a GQ/GU Patrol or Toy Hilux t/case has been fitted to the front of an LT230?
Yes. Someone from up Coffs Harbour (NSW) way was doing this using part of a GQ/GU transfer case. I haven't spoken to him about this for a well over 12 months, but back then he was close to having the doubler finished.

IMHO, this has some advantages ( less power loss for one) over the planetary gear set in the crawler unit.

[mox]

I'm intrigued Mox, but I haven't got an Lt230 of any type to play with to visualise whether it would work or calculate the high/low ratios.
However, a couple of mental calculations. The distance between centres of the input shaft to intermediate shaft is the same as for the output shaft and intermediate shaft. In that case the tooth count required on the input shaft to do what you say would be the same as the high range gear on the centre diff. Why not machine the teeth off the original input gear and have a centre diff high range gear electron beam welded to it instead of having a new gear cut?
bill.

The distances between the shafts may possibly appear the same when trying to measure the spacings on a box installed in a vehicle but they are not. It is about 110 mm between input and intermediate shaft and 120 mm between intermediate and output shaft. Not sure if these are exact, which bloke who cut gear would have had to measure to design it. Anyway, it was within a small range`for which a 22 tooth gear could be made to fit and drive the 44 tooth high range one from the top side.

A point to note re replacing transfer box onto gearbox in vehicle: Seems it is normally easiest to take the input gear out with most boxes. (of course after it has been in place to get tapered roller bearing preload spacer shims in place) However, the standard input gear on an LT230 with 1.003 high cannot be removed or replaced straight out of the rear because high range gear on the intermediate cluster is larger than the middle one it drives. My modified input which drives high range gear does not have this problem.

[wagoo]

The distances between the shafts may possibly appear the same when trying to measure the spacings on a box installed in a vehicle but they are not. It is about 110 mm between input and intermediate shaft and 120 mm between intermediate and output shaft. Not sure if these are exact, which bloke who cut gear would have had to measure to design it. Anyway, it was within a small range`for which a 22 tooth gear could be made to fit and drive the 44 tooth high range one from the top side.

A point to note re replacing transfer box onto gearbox in vehicle: Seems it is normally easiest to take the input gear out with most boxes. (of course after it has been in place to get tapered roller bearing preload spacer shims in place) However, the standard input gear on an LT230 with 1.003 high cannot be removed or replaced straight out of the rear because high range gear on the intermediate cluster is larger than the middle one it drives. My modified input which drives high range gear does not have this problem.

Thanks for the explaination Mox. Just as purely a mental exercise I'm now thinking again about Sergs suggestion for a 3 spd transfer case. With your modified arrangement, the centre gear of the intermediate cluster becomes redundent. If the intermediat gear were made into a 3 piece unit similar to an LT95,and that redundant helical gear were to be replaced with a spur gear come dog clutch, then a mating spur gear could possibly be mounted on splines machined on the hub in front of your new 22 tooth helical gear.This spur gear set would need to be of a lower ratio than your 22/44 tooth gear set, otherwise it would be quite silly and impractical, because high and low range would be relatively quiet helical gears whilst the additional intermediate range would be noisey spur gears.
Bill.

[wagoo]

IMHO, this has some advantages ( less power loss for one) over the planetary gear set in the crawler unit.

Your comment above had me scratching my head for a minute John, until I took a closer look at the photos of Petes crawler and noticed that the ring gear is locked permanently to the gear case, so that even in high, where the sun gear is locked to the planetary gear carrier, the planetary gears are still circulating around both the sun gear and the ring gear. On my Quadratrac based unit in high, the sun, planetary and ring gear are all locked together and merely revolve as an additional flywheel, so very little in the way of frictional losses or heat generation.
Bill.

[uninformed]

Thanks for the explaination Mox. Just as purely a mental exercise I'm now thinking again about Sergs suggestion for a 3 spd transfer case. With your modified arrangement, the centre gear of the intermediate cluster becomes redundent. If the intermediat gear were made into a 3 piece unit similar to an LT95,and that redundant helical gear were to be replaced with a spur gear come dog clutch, then a mating spur gear could possibly be mounted on splines machined on the hub in front of your new 22 tooth helical gear.This spur gear set would need to be of a lower ratio than your 22/44 tooth gear set, otherwise it would be quite silly and impractical, because high and low range would be relatively quiet helical gears whilst the additional intermediate range would be noisey spur gears.
Bill.

how much $$ shipped to 4214?

:D

[uninformed]

Yes. Someone from up Coffs Harbour (NSW) way was doing this using part of a GQ/GU transfer case. I haven't spoken to him about this for a well over 12 months, but back then he was close to having the doubler finished.

IMHO, this has some advantages ( less power loss for one) over the planetary gear set in the crawler unit.

so does the give 4 ranges?

[rick130]

how much $$ shipped to 4214?

:D


You already have a 49% lower low range, ya greedy bugger :p

[djam1]

Bill wouldn't the permanent engagement of the gears just generate heat this is one reason I have never been game to use the Rocky Mountain overdrive?


Your comment above had me scratching my head for a minute John, until I took a closer look at the photos of Petes crawler and noticed that the ring gear is locked permanently to the gear case, so that even in high, where the sun gear is locked to the planetary gear carrier, the planetary gears are still circulating around both the sun gear and the ring gear. On my Quadratrac based unit in high, the sun, planetary and ring gear are all locked together and merely revolve as an additional flywheel, so very little in the way of frictional losses or heat generation.
Bill.

[uninformed]

You already have a 49% lower low range, ya greedy bugger :p

well with only 17hp and 4nm, you can never have to many gears.....

[rick130]

Bill wouldn't the permanent engagement of the gears just generate heat this is one reason I have never been game to use the Rocky Mountain overdrive?

No, only if they rotated in relation to each other, not when locked together

[rick130]

well with only 17hp and 4nm, you can never have to many gears.....


You're too young to remember, but as a kid I remember being stuck behind old smelly, belching Pommy POS trucks like Fodens and Leylands on the hills of the Putty Rd when we were going on holidays and they seemed to have a million gears to go along with their top speed on the flat of 72km/h, which would indicate they only possessed around 15HP being NA engines, so I take your point........

[wagoo]

Bill wouldn't the permanent engagement of the gears just generate heat this is one reason I have never been game to use the Rocky Mountain overdrive?

I believe there was a thread on these forums concerning the amount of heat that the RM overdrive generates in our generally hotter conditions when compared to Canada.I haven't checked the thread for some time but I think synthetic lube was found to be the solution to keeping the overdrive alive.
The centre seat panel of my truck gets almost hot enough to have a good egg, bacon and lamb chop fry up when I use my crawler in low, but temps are reasonable in direct drive,and unlike an overdrive the crawler is only used at low speeds for relatively short distances.

Serg the Nissan doubler would give you the choice of high/high high/low low/high and low/low. the standard nissan low range is not as low as the Ashcroft crawler, but aftermarket gearsets are available I believe.
Bill.

[wagoo]

You're too young to remember, but as a kid I remember being stuck behind old smelly, belching Pommy POS trucks like Fodens and Leylands on the hills of the Putty Rd when we were going on holidays and they seemed to have a million gears to go along with their top speed on the flat of 72km/h, which would indicate they only possessed around 15HP being NA engines, so I take your point........

OT but tenuously related to the subject.
The old Fodens were, at least from a tractive effort perspective, the most powerful road train spec prime mover of their day. The 150BHP Gardiner engined rigs had a 6 speed main gearbox plus 3 speed planetary geared auxiliary box. With the drive flanged axles fitted to the hubs they had a maximum speed of 30mph and a nominal gross train weight of 45 tons. If the operator was offered an extra payload and was prepared to travel more slowly, an alternative set of halfshafts were carried and could be fitted . Instead of having drive flanges, these halfshafts had a sun gear on the end that engaged with planetary gears already inside the hubs to give a further 2:1 reduction. The result was a gross combination weight capability of 90 tons with a maximum speed of 15mph.Roads were pretty crook in the NT outback in those days, so 15mph wasn't as slow as one might think with a couple of stock trailers snaking along behind.
I don't know how anyone could drive them in the heat of the NT though. They were a cab over engined truck and the engine sat snuggly beside the driver.
Bill.

[PAT303]

Bill,we are harder up here,my Acco or the Iveco cab over I was in yeasterday get hot enough to burn steak on the floors but we aren't latte sippin' tree huggin' fairies like them city drivers!!!. Pat

[wagoo]

Bill,we are harder up here,my Acco or the Iveco cab over I was in yeasterday get hot enough to burn steak on the floors but we aren't latte sippin' tree huggin' fairies like them city drivers!!!. Pat

Pat, I'd reckon the Iveco with several hundred horsepower, aircon and power operated everything, cruising effortlessly at 100kph on improved roads would be a far cry from the old Foden dragging 90 tons on rough sand tracks, struggling along flat out at 1900rpm with no air, no steer, and at 25kph, no end in sight.:).
The drivers in those days were hard men alright. I dips me lid to them.
Bill.

[mox]

Thanks for the explaination Mox. Just as purely a mental exercise I'm now thinking again about Sergs suggestion for a 3 spd transfer case. With your modified arrangement, the centre gear of the intermediate cluster becomes redundent. If the intermediat gear were made into a 3 piece unit similar to an LT95,and that redundant helical gear were to be replaced with a spur gear come dog clutch, then a mating spur gear could possibly be mounted on splines machined on the hub in front of your new 22 tooth helical gear.This spur gear set would need to be of a lower ratio than your 22/44 tooth gear set, otherwise it would be quite silly and impractical, because high and low range would be relatively quiet helical gears whilst the additional intermediate range would be noisey spur gears.
Bill.

I have the advantage of being able to look at this box partly assembled to get things in perspective. Actually would much prefer I couldn't - with it installed in vehicle. The suggestion of a third lower range is not on. The 41 tooth middle gear on the cluster is about as big as can clear the collar where the selecter fork goes on the output shaft and bigger would be needed. Also, would not want to go too much smaller than the 22 tooth on the input shaft. Then the problem of somehow fitting in an additional selector mechanism.

[rick130]

Bill,we are harder up here,my Acco or the Iveco cab over I was in yeasterday get hot enough to burn steak on the floors but we aren't latte sippin' tree huggin' fairies like them city drivers!!!. Pat

Pfft, you've been 'there' for five seconds and now you're a hard bastard too ? :p

Give me a yell when you're back visiting and I'll come and shout you a Latté :D

[PAT303]

Pfft, you've been 'there' for five seconds and now you're a hard bastard too ? :p

Give me a yell when you're back visiting and I'll come and shout you a Latté :D

Your going to shout me:eek:I've heard you've still got your milk money from school:D. Pat

[fitzy]

I don't know if this would work but I'll put it up anyway.
Early Rangies with the lt95 were locally modified to auto by stripping the guts out of the primnary gearbox and running a shaft through the void from a borg warner 35 or IIRC a c4 to the transfer case, with the auto being in the position of the bell housing.
Could it be possible to run the auto then the primary gearbox then the transfer case.
Auto 3rd gear 1:1,lt95 4th-1:1.
lt95 3rd-1.5:1
and so on.

[Bush65]

I don't know if this would work but I'll put it up anyway.
Early Rangies with the lt95 were locally modified to auto by stripping the guts out of the primnary gearbox and running a shaft through the void from a borg warner 35 or IIRC a c4 to the transfer case, with the auto being in the position of the bell housing.
Could it be possible to run the auto then the primary gearbox then the transfer case.
Auto 3rd gear 1:1,lt95 4th-1:1.
lt95 3rd-1.5:1
and so on.
That is similar to how doublers are configured. And how the Nissan parts that Bill raised earlier in this thread. The Nissan section being a short 2 speed gearbox (one speed is direct drive, second is a reduction).

In a patrol it sandwiches between the 5 speed gearbox and the final part of the transfer case used to drive front and rear wheels.

Edit: Bill built his splitter from a shortened LT95 to use 2 speeds (direct and 3rd from memory), but reversed so 3rd was a step up. And, also from memory, the splitter went in front of the main gearbox.