Asbestos

[Dmmos]

Just a quick question, does anybody know if there is asbestos in the LR series 3 diff gasket?

[Scouse]

No answers yet.....

Asbestos is usually used in gaskets where heat is involved so I would say not in the car of an axle/diff gasket.

All the cars I've worked on from the 40s to the current times (that's the years of the cars - not me) don't use asbestos in gaskets in that area.

[scarry]

I will go along with Scouse

If you really wanna know,you could always get it tested

[Blknight.aus]

no, asbestos was only used in engine gaskets mainly the exhaust and the carby spacer gaskets.

it was also used in brake linings and clutchs as well as the thermal insulation

[Dmmos]

Thanks for the input guys - I get a little paranoid :s

I didn't think the diff gasket would require asbestos - if I'm doing some work with asbestos gaskets (engine, exhaust) though, would an ordinary face mask be ok? I know it's not dangerous unless broken, but I'd like to take some precautions just on case...

[lyonsy]

a mask is better then nothing.
but if you have a sponge and water handy just wet it, when its wet the fiber's dont go airbourne.

[scarry]

Water spray bottle is the go to wet it down with,also many masks have "do not use for asbestos" written on them.

You will have to hunt around for the correct one.

[Siska]

I did a job recently where there were 'professional' asbestos removalists. I was told by them that the hype over asbestos was great for their business. The consensus of the group was if general common sense was carried out, they'd be out of work. The only real concern for them asbestos wise was when asbestos had been used to lag plumbing pipes.

[rovercare]

I did a job recently where there were 'professional' asbestos removalists. I was told by them that the hype over asbestos was great for their business. The consensus of the group was if general common sense was carried out, they'd be out of work. The only real concern for them asbestos wise was when asbestos had been used to lag plumbing pipes.

Yep, Asbestos lagging, my old man tells me about how they used to have asbestos ball fights, like snow balls, with the lagging when he was an apprentice, my uncle only just recently died from mesothelioma

He was also telling me, when he first heard of it in the SEC they showed a "safety video" in about 1970-71, he said it was an american film, and being into cars, had a few questions as to why the cars in the film were from the mid 50's:eek:

[rovercare]

Oh, I doubt it would be, as you really can tell an asbestos gasket in comparison to a composite, but if you want piece of mind, the best method is to spray it down, with CRC, penetrine or the like on removal, will prevent airborne particles, then double bag it, ideally you'd put it in an asbestos dump, but like most of it, it'll end up in landfill

[Blknight.aus]

handle all gaskets and brake linings as tho they were asbestos.

theres a lot of stuff we get to play with that has warnings on it about fine airborne particulate matter.

the safety instructions are near on the asbestos ones verbatim.

[Bigbjorn]

no, asbestos was only used in engine gaskets mainly the exhaust and the carby spacer gaskets.

it was also used in brake linings and clutchs as well as the thermal insulation

Don't forget copper/asbestos head gaskets.

In the shipyards laggers were always "dirty old laggers" whether they were 17 or 70. Laggers were always covered in asbestos and the plaster they mixed it with to lag steam pipes.

[Blknight.aus]

I havent seen an asbestoes/copper head gasket on a rover yet. Not saying they havent had it but I havent seen one in person or IF I have I didnt recognise it as asbestos.

[Bigbjorn]

All head gaskets were copper/asbestos up until the steel ones came into common use early 60's.

[Jay]

I've done a heap of Asbestos removal.

Paper mask "Asbestos Rated"
In a pinch wet paper mask (not recommend)
Spray bottle with water (all that is needed - do not add chemicals)
Wet it down
open join slightly
wet it down
Keep it wet so no dust flies around
scrape sodden mess into plastic bag
wipe with clean wet rags multiple times multiple rags discard
Yes - double bag
Relax
cup of tea

Hope this helps

Jay

[Dmmos]

Thank you all for the help!

Cheers
Dave.

[Rolyrover]

Is a 1980 series 3 wagon likely to have asbestos brake shoes if they are original? Any help would be appreciated.

-Rolyrover

[Homestar]

Is a 1980 series 3 wagon likely to have asbestos brake shoes if they are original? Any help would be appreciated.

-Rolyrover

Hi mate, yes it's very possible they could still contain asbestos. Nothing to be too scared by - just don't use compressed air or anything to clean out the brake dust - get an asbestos rated dusk mask - they aren't expensive, and wear it when doing the brakes - use brake clean to wash all components with and collect all the run off in a plastic bag (line a shallow tray or something with an open bin liner). This makes sure it isn't released into your front yard when the brake clean evaporates.

[Rolyrover]

Cheers mate, thanks for the reply.

-Rolyrover

[JDNSW]

While asbestos is undoubtedly potentially dangerous, I suspect the danger is very much overrated. Consider this - from about 1900 into the 1980s, almost all motor vehicles worldwide had asbestos based brake linings. What happens to brake linings? They wear into powder. And where does the powder go? Mostly into the air, especially in areas of heavy traffic in major cities where there are lots of people to breath it.

In that period, I have not noted an epidemic of asbestos related disease. In fact, most cases of these diseases can be traced to where the person was exposed, usually either occupationally or a specific gross exposure. If it was as hazardous as seems to be often considered, it should have become much more common as motor vehicles spread in numbers.

Having said that, I personally take sensible precautions, including not sanding or power cutting etc anything that might even remotely contain asbestos. But I would not worry about a gasket - just wet it to make sure there is no dust.

[p38arover]

I've never used compressed air on brakes, usually I've washed them in with a water hose - it dissolved away the muck that was a dust/brake fluid mix.

[Grumbles]

Hi mate, yes it's very possible they could still contain asbestos. Nothing to be too scared by - just don't use compressed air or anything to clean out the brake dust - get an asbestos rated dusk mask

When I was involved in the service station game back in the 60's/70's we used compressed air as a matter of course every time a brake drum came off a car - no masks.

I also recall sanding down a laundry room ceiling and walls by hand in an old house - all was asbestos cement sheet- no masks.

in both instances it was normal practice in the day with the danger of asbestos still unknown.

[101 Ron]

The risk is way over rated.
My family had a automotive business which as a side line rebonded
brake shoes.
After rebonding the shoes would be placed in a radius grinder to get the shoes to the correct size.
The rebonding room was inches thick on the floor with the dust from the radius machine.
The dust was on the walls and window sills.
I would play with the dust as a kid in that room.
The dust was cleaned away with compressed air.
No one has ever had a problem.
I also a !ittle bit later in life helped my dad build sheds with fibro walls and I would be manning the fibro cutter .
Again no problems.
Then in my early years of being a mechanic, blowing. Brake dust out of drums was the norm
Again no problems.
THE BIGGEST RISK FACTOR IS SMOKING or a history of smoking.
99% of people who die from asbestosis have a smoking history.
A smokers lungs cannot handle the asbestos fibres.
The other big risk factor is as previously mentioned is asbestos lagging of pipes especially on ships and boilers..
Yes water is a good risk reduction method.

[101 Ron]

The crap on importing vehicles and machinery which now at more cost than they are worth have to be disassembled and possible asbestos components removed and treated dock side is plan overreacting and stupid.
All for a clutch plate or brake shoe lining or head gasket.
I have seen the BS the National parks do over pulling down a fibro dunny.
So called experts inspect a old piece of machinery............ban it due to a asbestos sealing gasket on a steel hatch lid when a simple eye ball and look up in a parts book finds it is a leather seal.
The powers to be can not use common sense and yes use precautions and handling.
Asbestos is going to be with us for many years yet and it has many useful properties.
Asbestos doesn't rot.
BAND SMOKING..........not asbestos.............just treat asbestos with caution.

[JDNSW]

I think that part of the issue is 'what is asbestos?' There are about half a dozen minerals referred to as such, but for Australian purposes there are only two significant ones, Chrysotile and crocidolite. Both of these have been widely used in this country and marketed as asbestos, and are sometimes referred to as 'white asbestos' and 'blue asbestos'. Up until about the 1960s chrysotile was used almost exclusively in this country, but new mines then began to supply large quantities of crocidolite, and the two were used more or less interchangeably.

While both are rated as carcinogenic, crocidolite is considered to be much more dangerous, perhaps because the fibres are more brittle, so that they break more readily into particles small enough to reach the lungs when inhaled (most particles inhaled are trapped in the nose or bronchial system and eventually rejected (sneeze, nose blow or cough).

The only person I know who has died from asbestos related disease was a close friend whose exposure was attributed to RN National Service where he was exposed to deteriorating pipe lagging in ships fifty years earlier - he reported visibility being affected in some compartments by the haze of asbestos particles when under way. My brother in law died in his eighties, not from asbestos related disease, despite working in an asbestos factory for thirty years up to 1970 (less war service).

[ATH]

All the hype about asbestos has made many jobs particularly for council workers it seems. The performance not long ago when a couple of sheets of "asbestos" fencing fell off a truck on a small roundabout was amazing.
An army of white overall clad oafs with full face masks descended, traffic stopped and diverted while they stood around discussing tactics, then sheets covered in plastic. tightly bound with tape, gingerly lifted into the back of a truck which slowly trundled away with lights flashing to warn road users. No wonder fencing contractors etc. dump the stuff in the bush as the tip charges are exorbitant. ..... as they are for all dumping. But bureaucraps have to be paid.
I have met people with lung problems who worked with asbestos though and one was an ex pipe lagger from the RN and he smoked constantly before giving up "in case it killed him"!
I worked as a maintenance fitter in a factory which used a mix of asbestos and bitumen for covering iron sheeting for roofs and walls and the blokes there had tiny masks while working in the hammer mill section where the air was thick with dust.
Not sure if any of them died but they also all smoked. I always refused to work in that section though.
Many houses called 'pre-fabs" were built in Britain after the war and they were all made from asbestos sheeting for walls and rooves. Served many people well for many years before all this scare about the dust.
Take reasonable precautions like not grinding the stuff and you should be OK.
As others have said smoking is more likely to kill you than asbestos plus it makes you stink......
AlanH.

[JDNSW]

Asbestos cement sheeting was very widely used in Australia as a building material from about the end of WW1 into the 1980s, and there are probably hundreds of thousands of houses using it as the main cladding material in use today. Even more, probably, as it was a favourite material for DIY extensions and modifications. Generally speaking it is considered perfectly safe if left alone, but definitely don't use power tools on it that may result in dust. If you need to cut it or make holes in it, wet it and use hand tools.

"Mr Fluffy" spray in asbestos insulation is probably a lot more significant as a risk, since it is loose asbestos.

[Roverlord off road spares]

Asbestos cement sheeting was very widely used in Australia as a building material from about the end of WW1 into the 1980s, and there are probably hundreds of thousands of houses using it as the main cladding material in use today. Even more, probably, as it was a favourite material for DIY extensions and modifications. Generally speaking it is considered perfectly safe if left alone, but definitely don't use power tools on it that may result in dust. If you need to cut it or make holes in it, wet it and use hand tools.

"Mr Fluffy" spray in asbestos insulation is probably a lot more significant as a risk, since it is loose asbestos.

I have spray in insulation in the ceiling and have been up in the roof cavity, when I saw the segment on Mr Fluffy insulation many years ago I panicked. I rang CRISO regarding the testing of my insulation, I was advised not to waste my money as Mr Fluffy was not used in Victoria, it was Canberra and NSW homes affected. I was told I could test mine myself by setting a match to it and if it burned it was cellulose. I was very relived after.

[akelly]

The risk is way over rated.
My family had a automotive business which as a side line rebonded
brake shoes.
After rebonding the shoes would be placed in a radius grinder to get the shoes to the correct size.
The rebonding room was inches thick on the floor with the dust from the radius machine.
The dust was on the walls and window sills.
I would play with the dust as a kid in that room.
The dust was cleaned away with compressed air.
No one has ever had a problem.
I also a !ittle bit later in life helped my dad build sheds with fibro walls and I would be manning the fibro cutter .
Again no problems.
Then in my early years of being a mechanic, blowing. Brake dust out of drums was the norm
Again no problems.
THE BIGGEST RISK FACTOR IS SMOKING or a history of smoking.
99% of people who die from asbestosis have a smoking history.
A smokers lungs cannot handle the asbestos fibres.
The other big risk factor is as previously mentioned is asbestos lagging of pipes especially on ships and boilers..
Yes water is a good risk reduction method.

This is incredibly poor advice, Ron. Only about a quarter of lung cancer deaths are attributable to the interaction between smoking and asbestos. Yes, history of smoking is related to an increased risk of lung cancer, but the idea that smokers lungs "cannot handle asbestos" is just not based in fact.

Just because you and your family have not suffered any effects of asbestos exposure does not make asbestos risk "over rated" - there are many factors at play and you may well have scarring on the lungs from exposure without and noticeable effects. No exposure to asbestos fibres is safe.

I'm a qualified asbestos assessor, in case you wonder why I'm chiming in on this. I was also an apprentice mechanic when we used to blow brake linings with air, and then got told to stop and use water instead.

[101 Ron]

This is incredibly poor advice, Ron. Only about a quarter of lung cancer deaths are attributable to the interaction between smoking and asbestos. Yes, history of smoking is related to an increased risk of lung cancer, but the idea that smokers lungs "cannot handle asbestos" is just not based in fact.

Just because you and your family have not suffered any effects of asbestos exposure does not make asbestos risk "over rated" - there are many factors at play and you may well have scarring on the lungs from exposure without and noticeable effects. No exposure to asbestos fibres is safe.

I'm a qualified asbestos assessor, in case you wonder why I'm chiming in on this. I was also an apprentice mechanic when we used to blow brake linings with air, and then got told to stop and use water instead.

I was not giving advice.

I was talking about asbestosis and not lung cancer.

I have recently been tested for asbestosis and no scaring.(due to my history)

Do some fact finding with links between asbestosis deaths and smoking history.

I was not recomending not to treat asbestos with caution.

[101 Ron]

I will throw something else into the ring.
Glass wool is not suppose to be good for you either.
I fail to see people in the insulation industry and fibre glass industry( fibre glass matting) treat glass fibres in the same way as asbestos.
Yes I know breathing filters etc are used industry.............but not always and not always in home projects like making surf boards.
Again smoking increase risk of possible problems.
Smoking reduces the body and lungs ability to reject the fibres.
The fibres which cannot be rejected do not tend to stay as passive with smokers.

[JDNSW]

Glass fibres are much less dangerous than asbestos for two reasons. Firstly, being non-crystalline, they do not tend to break as easily into very small bits, and secondly, glass is slightly soluble in bodily fluids, which means small particles usually dissolve rather than remaining as an irritant. And also, silicates (which glass is) are not generally carcinogenic. Most non-urban dust is composed mainly of silicates. On the other hand, as anyone who has used the stuff knows, glass fibres are definitely a skin irritant!

[akelly]

I was not giving advice.

I was talking about asbestosis and not lung cancer.

I have recently been tested for asbestosis and no scaring.(due to my history)

Do some fact finding with links between asbestosis deaths and smoking history.

I was not recomending not to treat asbestos with caution.

When you say "do some fact finding" do you mean "train and work as an asbestos assessor"? Because I literally have done that.

Cheers,

Adam

[akelly]

I will throw something else into the ring.
Glass wool is not suppose to be good for you either.
I fail to see people in the insulation industry and fibre glass industry( fibre glass matting) treat glass fibres in the same way as asbestos.
Yes I know breathing filters etc are used industry.............but not always and not always in home projects like making surf boards.
Again smoking increase risk of possible problems.
Smoking reduces the body and lungs ability to reject the fibres.
The fibres which cannot be rejected do not tend to stay as passive with smokers.

mate this sort of thing is exactly why you should stop dispensing advice/pronouncements on asbestos.

[strangy]

I was going to leave this but character flaws on my behalf preclude it.

Lost close folk because of asbestos and both non smokers forever.
I'm involved in the medical field and have relatives directly involved.
Spent hours with specialists watching my family members waste away.
Asbestos is an indiscriminate killer -the end.

Stay away from it.

[101 Ron]

I certainly don't want this personal or a slanging match.
Just a difference of information and experiences so far learnt.
That bloke who fought very hard for the compension from Hardies and tragically died I think before he could see it through.........a former smoker.
I friend I knew died of asbestosis and thought was a non smoker...........turns out smoked in his time in the navy (asbestos pipe lagging) and was wardrobe cigar smoker later in life.
About Eight people still live at Wittenoon..........and have been long term.
Guess what they have in common.
Every time I dig I find a connection.
Strangys story is the first I have heard with no smoking connection.
Then the famous story of the women as a girl played in the fibro pile and died of asbestosis many years later.......was a smoker in her older years.
It goes on.
I was pointing out over reaction to asbestos already in the work place at times.
I am not suggesting not to use common sense in handling asbestos.
Glass fibres appears to be a isuse in the glass wool insulation industry in the confined spaces of house roofs.
Then the true story of the lady who lived in Wiittenoon most of her life until she couldn't look after her self......in her 70s......guess if she smoked or not.
I just looking at things from a different angle.

[bsperka]

I certainly don't want this personal or a slanging match.
Just a difference of information and experiences so far learnt.
Thant bloke who fought very hard for the compension from Hardies and tragically died I think before he could see it through.........a former smoker.
I friend I knew died of asbestosis and thought was a non smoker...........turns out smoked in his time in the navy (asbestos pipe lagging) and was wardrobe cigar smoker later in life.
About Eight people still live at Wittenoon..........and have been long term.
Guess what they have in common.
Every time I dig I find a connection.
Strangys story is the first I have heard with no smoking connection.
Then the famous story of the women as a girl played in the fibro pile and died of asbestosis many years later.......was a smoker in her older years.
It goes on.
I was pointing out over reaction to asbestos already in the work place at times.
I am not suggesting not to common sense in handling asbestos.
Glass fibres appears to be a isuse in the glass wool insulation industry in the confined spaces of house roofs.
Then the true story of the lady who lived in Wiittenoon most of her life until she couldn't look after her self......in her 70s......guess if she smoked or not.
I just looking at things from a different angle.For smokers the deepest breath they take is when they drag on a cigarette or pipe. Most of us take shallow breaths most of the time in comparison.

[knares]

bury my neighbour on Friday

[cripesamighty]

Something from three or four years ago - "The most radioactive places on earth". The most radioactive place will surprise you, and is pertinent to this thread. I sure as hell wouldn't stuff around with asbestos though....

The Most Radioactive Places on Earth - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRL7o2kPqw0)

[1nando]

We are breathing in asbestos every day. Whether its from the natural erotion of the rock that happens daily and becomes air born world wide or from the bloke down the road renovating a house built pre 1980s we are all breathing asbestos. Asbestos is dangerous and everyone can tolerate different levels of exposure. Some may become ill with very little exposure and some may not become ill at all.
Common sense when handling asbestos is key. Wet down the surface thoroughly, wear some gloves, eye protection and a good quality mask and you'll be right. Dont angle grind any material with it and if you must make sure to be using a spray bottle to wet the surface as you do.

[bsperka]

...from the bloke down the road renovating a house built pre 1980...

From health.gov.au
"As a General Rule ...
if your house was built:

before the mid-1980s it is highly likely that it has asbestos-containing products

between the mid-1980s and 1990 it is likely that it has asbestos containing products

after 1990 it is unlikely that it has asbestos-containing products.a

a Some houses built in the 1990s and early 2000s may have still used asbestos cement materials until the total ban on any activity involving asbestos products became effective from December 2003."

[1nando]

From health.gov.au
"As a General Rule ...
if your house was built:

before the mid-1980s it is highly likely that it has asbestos-containing products

between the mid-1980s and 1990 it is likely that it has asbestos containing products

after 1990 it is unlikely that it has asbestos-containing products.a

a Some houses built in the 1990s and early 2000s may have still used asbestos cement materials until the total ban on any activity involving asbestos products became effective from December 2003."I know this as i started my apprenticeship in 2001. I stated 1980 as it almost a given that there will be asbestos layden materials through out the house. 1990 onwards you'd find that it was used less.

[bsperka]

I know this as i started my apprenticeship in 2001. I stated 1980 as it almost a given that there will be asbestos layden materials through out the house. 1990 onwards you'd find that it was used less.I was stating for others as still issues until 1990s. Btw: I also knew the years.

[frantic]

I certainly don't want this personal or a slanging match.
Just a difference of information and experiences so far learnt.
That bloke who fought very hard for the compension from Hardies and tragically died I think before he could see it through.........a former smoker.
I friend I knew died of asbestosis and thought was a non smoker...........turns out smoked in his time in the navy (asbestos pipe lagging) and was wardrobe cigar smoker later in life.
About Eight people still live at Wittenoon..........and have been long term.
Guess what they have in common.
Every time I dig I find a connection.
Strangys story is the first I have heard with no smoking connection.
Then the famous story of the women as a girl played in the fibro pile and died of asbestosis many years later.......was a smoker in her older years.
It goes on.
I was pointing out over reaction to asbestos already in the work place at times.
I am not suggesting not to use common sense in handling asbestos.
Glass fibres appears to be a isuse in the glass wool insulation industry in the confined spaces of house roofs.
Then the true story of the lady who lived in Wiittenoon most of her life until she couldn't look after her self......in her 70s......guess if she smoked or not.
I just looking at things from a different angle.
Ron it's sort of 6 of one and 1/2 dozen the other. Yes smokers are more likely to get lung cancers when exposed to asbestos, BUT other studies have shown chain smokers in the factories where LESS likely to get asbestos in their lungs as they almost always had a filter. This was particularly highlighted by their wives getting asbestosis from doing the washing from the 1900's-1980's. While the chain smoking husband was either ok or had the associated smoking issues.

[ATH]

I've just remembered while rereading this thread that a lady at work approx. 10 years ago died from asbestos fibres from her husbands overalls.
All she did was launder time.
AlanH.

[fitzy]

We all need to die, in Australia at the moment you can not die from old age, you can live to 110 and will be put on the heart disease list or the lung cancer list, you will have died from some disease, traffic accident, murder so on and so on.
There's 2 billion chinese people, smoking doesn't seem to be hurting them.
Maybe some are manipulating the stats to get a result they want.
It seems to me that not everyone that spent lots of time breathing in asbestos dust fibres died an early death.
What is an early death?
60 maybe.
My grandfather died from smoking at 95.
My grand father lived untill the ripe old age of 95 despite being a smoker since he was 14.
Same story told differently.

[ATH]

Certainly some smokers live to a ripe old age and well done them. But my dad died at the age of 52 when I was 14.....
AlanH

[V8Ian]

The Wonderful Uses of Asbestos - Amazing Inventions | British Pathe - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxfZSEboVM4)

[Kingy33]

.

[p38arover]

Just a quick question, does anybody know if there is asbestos in the LR series 3 diff gasket?

A very late answer - the gasket for the Salisbury diff is made of cork.

Pic below stolen from the KLR website:

171997

[RANDLOVER]

The Wonderful Uses of Asbestos - Amazing Inventions | British Pathe - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxfZSEboVM4)

My Dad loved asbestos, we had, asbestos dog kennel, pot planters, heaters and facia boards.

[scarry]

I've just remembered while rereading this thread that a lady at work approx. 10 years ago died from asbestos fibres from her husbands overalls.
All she did was launder time.
AlanH.

Happened to a good friend of mine as well.

He was a carpenter at QBuild,started his apprenticeship in 1961,and says, during most days they couldnt see from one end of the workshop to the other for the asbestos dust.
In those days Qbuild built most of the schools and other Govt buildings,many made almost entirely from asbestos,all the walls,the roof,and on it goes.

He survived,still around now,yet many of his workmates are long gone.

[JDNSW]

My sister's husband spent most of his working life in Hardie's asbestos factory in Sydney. He died in his mid eighties from a heart attack not related to asbestos - his wife (my sister) died in her late eighties from complications of dementia, again, not related to asbestos. A close friend of mine died in his late seventies from mesothelioma, probably related to his national service in the RN where he was a fitter - he claimed that when under way at high speed the aircraft carrier he was on had the propeller shaft tunnels filled with a mist of asbestos, and one of his jobs was regularly entering it to check bearings for overheating.

Without suggesting at all that asbestos is not dangerous, I wonder sometimes whether it is treated as a greater danger than it is. Consider that mesothelioma was a rare disease, and still is, despite the fact that for at least sixty years almost every motor vehicle on the road has asbestos brake linings which were converted to dust and distributed along the roads.

I suspect that part of the answer is that the word "asbestos" is used for a number of minerals. In Australia, the two commonly encountered are chrysotile and crocidolite, sometimes referred to as white asbestos and blue asbestos.

The former has much more flexible fibres than crocidolite, and has always been the preferred fibre for most uses, but crocidolite has been found in larger quantities in Australia, although it only came into widespread use as demand increased but supplies of chrysotile remained restricted. Because the fibres of chrysotile are much more flexible, they tend not to break into very small particles in general handling, and so do not find their way into lungs. Crocidolite fibres are brittle and do break into very small particles, which are not trapped in the nose. Both minerals will be reduced to very small particles when ground, for example by a cutting wheel in an angle grinder, and both are known to cause asbestosis and mesothelioma. The recent "epidemic" of mesothelioma is closely related to the change from cutting asbestos-cement sheeting using a special hand guillotine tool to using an angle grinder, although some also is related to a short lived practice of using loose asbestos as ceiling insulation. Before this epidemic, both asbestosis and mesothelioma were considered occupational diseases where prolonged exposure was needed to cause illness.

[ATH]

I worked for a company in the UK as a maintenance fitter moons back and they are the subject of many claims for both diseases. They made corrugated steel roof sheeting covered with an asbestos and bitumen coating. Where I normally worked wasn't too bad as it entailed working on the steel forming machines and presses, guillotines etc with not much asbestos around. But I often on late shifts had to go into another area where the raw material was put through hammer mills and crushed ready to be made into a range of other products such as guttering, downpipes and even window boxes for plants.
That was a dirty area and the 2 blokes who worked there all the time were both showing trouble breathing although one was a heavy smoker so that didn't help.
AlanH
.

[austastar]

I believe it was Rolf Harris who described being in the bagging room at Wittenoom and everyone looking like lamingtons with the amount of fibers floating in the air.
Cheers

[3toes]

Fibre glass sheets have a similar effect with the glass floating in the air and the needles sticking in the lungs

Had a friend who worked in one of the asbestos mines towards the end of their life. They were given safety gear and breathing masks. Most did not wear it as was hot and not pleasant to work in. Management did regular sweeps to check gear was being worn however was removed as soon as they were gone. Said it was his fault when died in late fifties from lungs as the gear was provided he was the one who refused to do as told

[JDNSW]

Fibre glass sheets have a similar effect with the glass floating in the air and the needles sticking in the lungs



There is a critical difference - glass fibre, while thoroughly unpleasant, is not carcinogenic. In addition, because unlike the minerals discussed above, it does not have regular cleavage planes, it does not tend to break into particles that actually get into the lungs, or at least not in the same quantities.

Worth comparing the effects of another mineral - silica on lungs. This has been known to cause permanent lung damage for over a century, but is not carcinogenic. Historically those affected have been affected by operations that involve dry crushing of rocks that include silica, but there has recently been a rise in cases involving the making of concrete kitchen benches where cutting or polishing has been done dry.

Another comparison is black lung in coal miners - again, destroys lung function, but is not carcinogenic. Almost completely restricted to coal miners as far as I am aware.

[Saitch]

There are a few things that are bad for the lungs.
My wife's brother, a baker of 55+ years, has a debilitating lung disease. Never smoked.
It's from inhaling different substances used in the day to day running of a bakery. Masks are perhaps worn, these days.

Getting back to asbestos, one of the strangest places I have seen warning signs, is on the wrecks at Tangalooma, on Moreton Island.

Now, these wrecks are submerged but have signs placed on them stating, "No Snorkelling as Asbestos in This Area", or similar words.

[JDNSW]

Then there is the case in this area, I can't remember just where, I think near Blayney, where there was considerable angst a few years ago when it turned out that roadworks had exposed substantial quantities of naturally occurring asbestos - which was also exposed in surrounding paddocks, but less obvious than where a cutting was made. This only came to light when a passing geologist stopped to look at the rocks exposed in the cutting and reported it. I can't remember what was done about it, but I seem to remember it was expensive!

[BathurstTom]

My younger brother says never work with asbestos if you can possibly avoid it. But if you have to drill asbestos, use copious amounts of shaving cream...

[austastar]

There are seams of asbestos in the rocks around one of the Karijini NP swimming holes. A few signs indicate that it is best not to disturb it.
Cheers

[3toes]

Bakers suffer from flour on the lungs. Is a coating that builds up due to breathing in the flour filled air in the bakery.

Left the bakery when I saw the older workers - they were in their forties - all suffering. Also left printing once I found out what the word carcinogenic which was in the label of most of the chemicals we were using means

[350RRC]

There is a critical difference - glass fibre, while thoroughly unpleasant, is not carcinogenic. In addition, because unlike the minerals discussed above, it does not have regular cleavage planes, it does not tend to break into particles that actually get into the lungs, or at least not in the same quantities.

Worth comparing the effects of another mineral - silica on lungs. This has been known to cause permanent lung damage for over a century, but is not carcinogenic. Historically those affected have been affected by operations that involve dry crushing of rocks that include silica, but there has recently been a rise in cases involving the making of concrete kitchen benches where cutting or polishing has been done dry.

Another comparison is black lung in coal miners - again, destroys lung function, but is not carcinogenic. Almost completely restricted to coal miners as far as I am aware.

All very true.

Over time the degree of cancer causing potential of various materials becomes apparent by exposure and outcome.

Fibreglass has been around for well over 60 years and not classed as carcinogenic. I've been using it for over 40 years with the correct PPE always.

DL