Holden V8 into a RRC

[400HPONGAS]

Im going to fit a Holden V8 into a RRC . Has anybody done this conversion ? Going to use a R380 box , There are 2 or 3 adapter plates out there to do it with , which one is the best ? What would the clutch arrangement be ? Ive got both Holden and chev pattern blocks and even Ford y-block crank in Holden blocks .Any help appreciated

[loanrangie]

I would use the turbo block as you are more likely to find an adapter for it, since the 4.6 came out not many bother with a holden/ chev V8 unless its EFI. Dont know how long the R380 will last but T400/ T700 or beefed up ZF would be my choice.

[400HPONGAS]

Thanks Loanrangie , yeah I have a couple of T700's ,thats the 4L60 , not the 4L60E, I just dont think there is an adaption from the T700 to a 230 tcase available , only seen adaptors to the T400 , which I dont like (unless you need a transbrake LOL).as far as Im concerned the Holden/Chev engines will have Twice the power for less than half the price and be more reliable and cheaper to operate than any Rover V8 .

[cal415]

Theres definetly some t700 to LT230 adapters out there, i looked at a few for my conversion when i was considering using a an auto, i actualy ended up with a patrol 5 speed box with a bellhousing from dellow to suit the LS1 and a LT230 adapted to it....

For the t700 to lt230, i think its overkill engineering or something like that in sydney that does them, if you look on outerlimits4x4 there will be more info on there about it i think.

[400HPONGAS]

Cal415 , rung around all the conversion mobs , and they all said bad luck , nobody does a Transfercase adapter to a T700 , 4L60 , only adapters for a T400 (yucky 3 speed ) and a 4L80E , which is nothing like the 4L60 (much longer , different splines)

[350RRC]

Hi 400,

Another option is the Ritters conversion C4 or C9 auto in front of a truncated LT 95. I have a bulletproofed C9 version behind a Chev. Would buy a similar RRC tomorrow. Uses stock trans mount posi and driveshafts

Shotlister had one for sale on here recently, don't know if it was a C4 or C9. Very nicely made bellhousing, adaptor housing, etc. And all very strong and simple.

cheers, DL

[harry]

Im going to fit a Holden V8 into a RRC . Has anybody done this conversion ? Going to use a R380 box , There are 2 or 3 adapter plates out there to do it with , which one is the best ? What would the clutch arrangement be ? Ive got both Holden and chev pattern blocks and even Ford y-block crank in Holden blocks .Any help appreciated


why bother, all you will gain is a close relationship with your driveline supplier.

[rovercare]

Cal415 , rung around all the conversion mobs , and they all said bad luck , nobody does a Transfercase adapter to a T700 , 4L60 , only adapters for a T400 (yucky 3 speed ) and a 4L80E , which is nothing like the 4L60 (much longer , different splines)

Have mate building an adaptor to suit T700 4 bolt on ext. housing, not 4L60E which is 5 bolt, to LT230 after a huge ****fight with Overkill, that seen him reclaim his money, he is close to completion, but not planning on parting with any until its tried and tested

[rovercare]

why bother, all you will gain is a close relationship with your driveline supplier.

Because some of us don;t like being boring;)

[350RRC]

why bother, all you will gain is a close relationship with your driveline supplier.

Depends how you drive I think. Mine still has 3.54 diffs and 10 spline axles and have had no probs. The spare 81 I bought about 4yrs ago that had a 3.5 had more worn axle splines than the ones that had been behind the chev since 91.

Mine gets flogged on the road, and cruises through the scrub. C9 / LT 95 is pretty strong, way stronger than a ZF.

Waiting for the 'unbalanced' RRC with iron block posts now. :D

cheers, DL

[harry]

Because some of us don;t like being boring;)

save your dosh,
put the holden engine in a dustbin or a holden, [same thing really]
adventure is a mix of finding new things and achieving success in aomething worthwile.

i see many land rover owners upgrading all sorts of driveline stuff just because they changed the tyre diameter,
up the horsepower - well the torque, and you will meet your driveline parts supplier sooner than you think.
if you wish, i can send you barry at hy tuff's nos.
your rover will go anywhere with the orignal engine, all the engine swap will do is make more noise.

have fun, i don't mean to be rude, just seems to be a waste of money and time.

[Vern]

save your dosh,
put the holden engine in a dustbin or a holden, [same thing really]
adventure is a mix of finding new things and achieving success in aomething worthwile.

i see many land rover owners upgrading all sorts of driveline stuff just because they changed the tyre diameter,
up the horsepower - well the torque, and you will meet your driveline parts supplier sooner than you think.
if you wish, i can send you barry at hy tuff's nos.
your rover will go anywhere with the orignal engine, all the engine swap will do is make more noise.

have fun, i don't mean to be rude, just seems to be a waste of money and time.
Yeah stick with the mighty 3.5, its got so much more potential:angel:.

Anyway, a mob called 'rover centre' in skye victoria, made an adapter for a T700 to machined off LT95 transcase if that helps, its a good conversion, i've had 2 in the past, work quite well. A complete conversion including auto sold on ebay the other day, it was upto around $250 with 2 days to go:(.

[BigJon]

, all the engine swap will do is make more noise.

.

Mine makes heaps of noise :twisted::twisted::p:cool: with a Rover V8.

I can see the benefit of an engine change though. I have often thought about Holden EFI V8 stroked to 355 running through a decent 5 speed box. Would use less fuel, of that I am sure. I already have an upgraded rear diff centre (truetrac) and rear axles (jacmac).

[rovercare]

save your dosh,
put the holden engine in a dustbin or a holden, [same thing really]
adventure is a mix of finding new things and achieving success in aomething worthwile.

i see many land rover owners upgrading all sorts of driveline stuff just because they changed the tyre diameter,
up the horsepower - well the torque, and you will meet your driveline parts supplier sooner than you think.
if you wish, i can send you barry at hy tuff's nos.
your rover will go anywhere with the orignal engine, all the engine swap will do is make more noise.

have fun, i don't mean to be rude, just seems to be a waste of money and time.

Umm, I'm not sure if you want my portfolio of rover ownership, but dare I say it, its greater than pretty much everyone on this forum

I've been doing engine conversions since my first car, I've also made alot of money doing so for others, also alot of friends I;ve helped in doing the same along the way, I'm well aware of ALL pro's and con's of such conversions, all I can say is..............don;t knock it, till you;ve tried it for yourself;)

[400HPONGAS]

Harry its a matter of Horses for Courses . If y0ur course is putting around 30Kph then you go for it .But after 10 years of Drag racing , I crave just a litle bit of Adrenalin . The Rover V8 makes a nice paperweight , the sad part is that in all its variants , its not only Gutless but it chews fuel as well !! (Mostly due to the Worst set of heads ever invented/fitted to a V8) The Rover V8 is such a quantum leap BEHIND the LR3 or LR4 Diesel V6's that 1965 to 2010 difference is obvious .
Yes I enjoy changing driveline stuff , or finding out what the next "weakest Link" is .

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

Have a look at Marks adaptors. This is the page for LR with GM trans GM Auto Trans (http://www.marks4wd.com/products/engine-trans-conversions/rrovauto.html)

This one is for the engine conversion L-Rover / R-Rover (http://www.marks4wd.com/products/engine-trans-conversions/rangeroverindex.html)

Cheers

Andrew

[cal415]

Rovercare, glad i decided not to go down that path with overkill! what went wrong with your mates purchase? im going through something similar with aussie desert coolers at the moment..

[Vern]

400, you could try PM 'tebone' on here, he's making an apapter to suit what you want. He's got some Brodex (?) alloy head solid cam 383 stroker in his, it will never have the power of the mighty rover though:angel:

[big guy]

You could always get things machined up if you really wanna go unique.

To keep it more simple for rego sake as they will probably not pass much over a 5.2L.

The 4.6 with the right work and injection system, high compression and good cam, will do the trick for many and I had one which sadly I sold.
That car was quuick and from the no's on the block simply read the standard 3.9L engine no.
There were no rego issues, just a funny look when I drove in to have it checked over at the local pits, the exhaust sure didn't sound standard or even like a 3.9.
That car hauled some serious arse and I would agree, the 3.5L buick donk is ancient and only with some work would it satisfy me these days. After years of drag racing I would not even consider it either.

Go wild and be sure to show us plenty of pics.

Good on you and have a ball.

[400HPONGAS]

Thanks Vern , yeah them heads are Brodix , Chevvy probably 200CC 18 degree wedgies . Never have the power of the mighty Rover V8 ? yeah I Know what you mean LMFAO !! ,As far as rego goes , all my blocks have 5L cast into them , so whether I use the the 347,355,383 or 400 CI stroker , you just cant tell from the outside !!! Also ran modified fully manulised 4L60's up to 600HP ,(4000 stall and lockup !!) no problems . Would be great to get a tcase to 4L60 adaption , as Marks 4wd , CRS and dellow have never made them . They make adapters for the t400 and 4L80E , which are nothing like the 4L60. Ill PM "tebone" and see how is doing with his conversion , thanks

[PhilipA]

Why not a gen111 to a beefed up 4HP22.

I understand that the adaptor/bolt pattern is the same for small block and Gen111 except for leaving out one bolt. Engine mounts can be re positioned Gen111 to 350 using an Advance Adaptors plate , or making up your own.

4HP22 rebuild to take it is $8K from Melbourne apparently.

I have never yet heard of anyone doing it and someone posted a while ago that the flywheel diameter was larger and would not fit inside the ZF bellhousing. This would seem a pretty difficult obstacle as the starter /flywheel relationship is pretty fixed AFAIK.

Does anyone know this for sure?

It seems unlikely seeing that I have seen a Gen111 to 350 small block swap in a US mag, where the Gen111 just bolted up to the 350 trans, suggesting Gen111 and 350 flywheels are the same.

This to me would be a great swap and one I would like to do if I ever get the spare money..

Regards Philip A

[CraigE]

I can understand each side of the argument here. I think it comes down to personal choice. People bag the Holden engine, People bag the Rover engine. They are both good honest simple V8s. Yes there are better engines, but at a higher cost and technically difficult.
I had absolutelly no problem with my RRC 3.9 stroked to a 4.2 on dedicated lpg. It had all the go a mates 308RRC had. A lot depends on what variant we are talking about, wether naturally aspirated or fuel injected, there are massive differences. It also depends what you have. Changing for the sake of changing, not liking the Rover motor, building a car up from scratch (maybe no engine). etc etc.
Personally I would not replace the Rover V8 unless it blew up and had catastrophic damage, then I would considera Holden V8 due to simplicity and availability of parts, options of fuel injected heads and eengine management systems that are plentifull these days or jus a naturally aspirated variant.
Anyway whatever you decide best of luck and keep us informed of your progress.

[cal415]

The LS1 flywheels are huge, i dont know about a ZF bellhousing but to get it to fit in a LT95 bellhousing would have required a huge ammount of grinding to the point where some parts of the bellhousing would have been paper thin or complete gone, we thought about that option beefing up the bellhousing and using the 350 adapter but then the 350 adapter would have also needed alot taken out of it as well. So yes the ls1 flywheels are larger then the 350 ones.. someone suggested using a smaller custom flywheel but then you still need to use the same ring gear or completly change how the starter motor mounts up...

[moparrangie]

It just comes down to how much messing around you want to do with an adaption. I have a 318 with a Hemi 6 flywheel,Holden clutch plate and a modified Hemi pressure plate. Starter is big block Chrysler and this is bolted to the passenger side of the motor not drivers like a Rover. This is in front of a lt95. You can make anything work its just how much time and effort it takes . As for the T700, the problem with it is how small the area is the adaptor has to bolt to. Its about 120 pcd with 4 10mm bolts in cast alloy. This joint takes all the load of motor, trans and transfer case, being its between the front and rear mounts. If you drive hard, how long before it fails. I have one of these adaptors on a T700 to lt95 and dont trust its strength at this joint at all. One day i will finish the rest of the rangie off and see how it lasts.

[rovercare]

Rovercare, glad i decided not to go down that path with overkill! what went wrong with your mates purchase? im going through something similar with aussie desert coolers at the moment..

It will be ready next month.........next month............next month.............next month:(

[Camo]

I reckon if someone makes a full Gen3 conversion kit for the P38 will make some money.

Common.. how nice a car would that be! can grab a good P38 for 5k with a stuffed motor these days.

All about electronics I guess

Camo

[rovercare]

I reckon if someone makes a full Gen3 conversion kit for the P38 will make some money.

Common.. how nice a car would that be! can grab a good P38 for 5k with a stuffed motor these days.

All about electronics I guess

Camo

I've been toying with it for ages, I just need to get a P38 cheap enough, there will be a way:twisted:

[rovercare]

The LS1 flywheels are huge, i dont know about a ZF bellhousing but to get it to fit in a LT95 bellhousing would have required a huge ammount of grinding to the point where some parts of the bellhousing would have been paper thin or complete gone, we thought about that option beefing up the bellhousing and using the 350 adapter but then the 350 adapter would have also needed alot taken out of it as well. So yes the ls1 flywheels are larger then the 350 ones.. someone suggested using a smaller custom flywheel but then you still need to use the same ring gear or completly change how the starter motor mounts up...


Early chevs have 2 different ring gear, 153 and 168 tooth count if I remember, must use the small one on rover conversions, Think we went through it, I'd of just got a flywheel machined to suit..........your probably better of with the Nissan box anyway:D

[Vern]

Why not a gen111 to a beefed up 4HP22.

I understand that the adaptor/bolt pattern is the same for small block and Gen111 except for leaving out one bolt. Engine mounts can be re positioned Gen111 to 350 using an Advance Adaptors plate , or making up your own.

4HP22 rebuild to take it is $8K from Melbourne apparently.

I have never yet heard of anyone doing it and someone posted a while ago that the flywheel diameter was larger and would not fit inside the ZF bellhousing. This would seem a pretty difficult obstacle as the starter /flywheel relationship is pretty fixed AFAIK.

Does anyone know this for sure?

It seems unlikely seeing that I have seen a Gen111 to 350 small block swap in a US mag, where the Gen111 just bolted up to the 350 trans, suggesting Gen111 and 350 flywheels are the same.

This to me would be a great swap and one I would like to do if I ever get the spare money..

Regards Philip Anot to be rude, but he has the engine already, and $8k for an auto, that will do a bullet proof 700r4 and apapter and have plenty of change.:)

[350RRC]

not to be rude, but he has the engine already, and $8k for an auto, that will do a bullet proof 700r4 and apapter and have plenty of change.:)

Your sentiments are what I was trying to get at previously. The Ritters trans I have effectively cost me nothing after I sold off all the stuff, very reasonably, from the donor 81 that I didn't want.

To bulletproof the C9 cost $850 (Matt knows someone cheaper) and the only other thing it needed was a custom torque convertor that cost $480 from Autoflite (Jason: what stall speed do you want? :) )

Don't know why anyone would spend 8k on a ZF when there are a heap of other options like t700's, 727's, C4's and 9s, and full manualized 4l80e's around that can be used at a fraction of the price and they are simpler and stronger.

Have a sniff around here:

http://www.automatictransmission.com.au/release.asp?NewsId=26882

Can't link the manualized 4l80 e, it's in the news section.

cheers, DL

[400HPONGAS]

Well , Ive settled the Gearbox issue , Just acquired a nice 4L80E , and going to use the Marks 4wd adapter ,(Swapped it for a fully worked Trimatic and a 4000 stally) PS the Trimatic , when built right , for drag racing is superior to all the turbo boxes in up to 500hp applications), The "Glovebox" Compucontroller is going to be dearer than than the Gearbox ! ,, still with the compucontrol ,just reach under the seat and set the change points up and down for all gears and no need for a BCM interface .
Now , how to Graft a pair of Ford 9 inch nascar centers into RR diffs ?

[Vern]

Thats a good deal, 4l80e's are exxy, plus not many here in aus

[Blknight.aus]

Early chevs have 2 different ring gear, 153 and 168 tooth count if I remember, must use the small one on rover conversions,

Thats as I remember it as well.



Now , how to Graft a pair of Ford 9 inch nascar centers into RR diffs ?

thats actually probably easier than changing the gearbox.

or you could just put in the ENV, sals or dana 60's

[BigJon]

Well , Ive settled the Gearbox issue , Just acquired a nice 4L80E , and going to use the Marks 4wd adapter ,(Swapped it for a fully worked Trimatic and a 4000 stally) PS the Trimatic , when built right , for drag racing is superior to all the turbo boxes in up to 500hp applications), The "Glovebox" Compucontroller is going to be dearer than than the Gearbox ! ,, still with the compucontrol ,just reach under the seat and set the change points up and down for all gears and no need for a BCM interface .
Now , how to Graft a pair of Ford 9 inch nascar centers into RR diffs ?

Did you get the trans off Aussie V8s? I have seen you post on there.
As far as your opinion of trimatic strength, I can't agree. I broke two trimatic gearsets behind a mild 308 that was only street driven.

[Hoges]

I reckon if someone makes a full Gen3 conversion kit for the P38 will make some money.

Common.. how nice a car would that be! can grab a good P38 for 5k with a stuffed motor these days.

All about electronics I guess

Camo

It's been done in the UK...they ended up using the sensors/electronics from the GEMS 4.6 on the GenIII to get around the electronics. Then converted to LPG. Sadly they went broke in 2008 and were left with a heap of "yet to be machined" specially cast bell housings which were key to the success...
I emailed them at the time

some details from the now defunct website LS1-power.com as follows:

Standard conversion

5.7 LS spec engine.
Custom bellhousing and torque convertor mountings
Bespoke engine mounts
Exhaust interface to standard RR exhaust.
Upgrade fuel delivery system
Relocation of standard ancillaries (Aircon, PAS)
Supply of new alternator and wiring
Modification of looms
Custom programming of GEMS engine management.
Airbox modifications and silicon intake hose
Electric fan and adjustable controller

Reliability

With a modern engine the P38 Range Rover is fitted with an engine that is understressed and designed for the 21st century. This conversion has been engineered to give your Range Rover a new lease of life. Add another 200k to its life.

Compatibility

The conversion retains all the diagnostic functions of the original Land Rover OBDII system. Got a problem? Plug into Autologic, Testbook or Rovacom and read all the sensors just the same. No need to get the vehicle on a trailer to a single repair centre. Wherever possible original equipment sensors are utilised to keep you on the road.

Performance

The best bit. With a re-mapped engine management system and a low-end torque camshaft fitted we have an engine that suits the Range Rover. Our development car has covered over 35,000 miles without a hiccup. This mileage has included towing a fully laden trailer, pulling a caravan, high average speed runs on the motorways, urban crawl (yawn) and serious off road testing. Fuel consumption matches the 4.6 engine and with a sequential gas system provides economic motoring.

Finally we could not resist the rolling road. We were pleased to find that even with a hi-torque cam and very, very safe sesttings on the ignition timing and fuelling we were easily able to achieve 350 bhp and torque to match.

It gets even better. On a recent motorway run (at the speed llimt) the engine is now exceeding 16mpg on LPG. Astounding for a 4.6 but incredible for a 5.7 litre engine.

Our car will keep pace with a Range Rover Sport supercarged too.

sad but true!

[400HPONGAS]

BigJon , you broke 2 Trimatics because they were not suitably modified for the application .(or they just came out of some old bomb that had done 500000ks!) For Drag racing ,using up to 500 hP engines , the 25kg weight , the lower first gear ,the HUGE parasitic loss difference , all add up ! With a shed full of Holden V8's and Trimatics and t700's ( 9 inch diff centres , I want to use what Ive got , or swap it for something better .(After to talking to the gearbox conversion specialists , it became obvious why the 4L60 wasnt going to be the best choice . More to do with the strength of the adaption than any other reason , and Ill have to find another 50 HP that Ill lose in Parasitics using the 4L80E , just run a 2500 stally !!!)
Reminds me of the worst RRC , the 1985 Auto with the 727 in it . Put your foot down and count to Ten before it actually moves LOL

[BigJon]

400HP,

both trimatics had been rebuilt to at least 308 spec. I don't know how you would make the gearsets stronger.

[400HPONGAS]

Bigjon I would find a real Trans builder if I were you , ive done over 100 drag strip runs with a Suitably modified Trimatic , in a 2 Ton car 13,8 @ 100Mph (thats betterthan 400FWHP or 300FWKW (last rolling road dyno showed 245 RWKW or 330RWHP )and never had a Problem ! Got a friend running 10.5's or 550 moroso on a Trimatic !!)
So Ill have to find another 50Hp plus that the 4L80E will suck offf in Parasitics alone .
By the way , what is the Kerb weight of a 1989 hi-line ?
Found this
"1989 Curb Weight 4,372 lbs. (increase of 69 lbs. from 1988)"
Surely that cant be true ! me stato weighed 4233lb (LPG system is worth over 180 KGs alone ) **** , I could crack a 14 with 400FWHP !!!

[BigJon]

400HP, that was two different trans builders! I still don't see how you can make the gearset stronger. It is a moot point now anyway, my current project ute will be a 6 speed manual!