Touch lamps and ceiling fans

[WhiteD3]

In my role at home as provider, cook, IT support, mechanic, gardener, handy man, pool lookerafterer, bug killer, dog and son chastiser, I have to deal with many issues and overcome some all sorts of challenges:cool:.................but I'm stumped on this one.

We just got 2 new bedside lamps, touch lamps. Look good, work well.............and turn themselves on whenever the speed of the ceiling fan is changed.:mad: This happens every night as SWMBO has a different thermostat to me so we are forever changing the speed.

So first up....why does this happen?
And second....how do you fix it?

The fan is on the light circuit, the lights are plugged in to the power circuit. The study ceiling fan (approx 7m away for SWMBO's lamp) does not turn on the lamps.

[Sparksdisco]

Is the cetiling fan a remote controll one?

if not where is the fan controler in relation to the bedside lamps.

Could be a spike when you turn the ceiling fan to a diferent setting. might be able to put in a capicator to limit the spike. altho would not know what size would work.

[WhiteD3]

Is the ceiling fan a remote control one?

Its a 3 speed rotary switch on the wall, the same size as a light dimmer, on my side of the bed, next to one of the lamps. But they both turn on.

[Ralph1Malph]

Hi,
Had to remember way back on this one. The answer is actually quite complicated but luckily, I had to dumb it down for myself :p so if I can understand, maybe others can too!:D
I have plagiarsed and paraphrased some of the text below coz my explanation was just too darn complicated!

All touch lamps have touch-sense circuitry and antennae. These two components are the fundamental reason why touch lamps are able to detect your touch and then turn the lamp on or off accordingly. Similar to a piece of metal, your hand acts as a conductor of energy. Because the touch-sense circuitry is wired to detect changes in electricity, your hand can set off or communicate, if you will, changes in the electric property of the lamp with just one swipe of the wrist. The metal shell of the lamp cover is what detects the changes in electric current as caused by the addition of the energy in your body (transferred through the touch of your hand). As soon as the flow of electric current changes or is interrupted, a sensor is triggered and the lamp will then kick off or turn on.

The basic function of a touch lamp is simple. Light is produced when the changes in electric charge are detected in the surface of the lamp. The flow of electricity is actually housed in the lamp's wiring, but the high frequency of the current travels throughout the surface of the lamp. Any changes in the electric properties of the lamp, as experienced with a single touch to the surface of the lamp, will cause it to alert the sensor housed within the lamp. Lamps of a more significant size will hold a greater charge and more easily recognize and detect touch.

Because an electric current flows throughout the surface of the lamp, starting from the wiring and traveling to the bulb, a rate of capacitance is determined (e. g. the ability to collect energy). Smaller lamps will assuredly have a lower rate of capacitance than larger lamps and vice versa. When a person extends his hand to touch the lamp, the electric current found in his body will change the electric property of the lamp. In short, the change in electric current, as motivated by the touch of the user's hand will cause the lamp to turn on or off. Touch lamps can be turned on and off by touching the base, lamp cord or waving the hand near the lamp.

In your case, (I'm guessing) that what was happening was when the fan motor speed is changed the electro magnetic force the fan motor generates is changed significantly. Now, the fan has an inductive motor and in the physics of electro magnetic force, inductance and capacitance have a relationship...you change one, you affect the other. Whats happening is that the temporary change in the inductance of the fan motors EMF also changes the capacitance of the fan motors EMF sufficiently enough to cause the same effect as touching or waving your hand on/over the lamp making them flash and sometimes stay on.
The lamp bases act as antannae and they are designed to look for capacitive changes as written earlier.

This tends to happen in circuits with inductor coils and motors. When the power changes or stops, the motor is still moving and the permanent magnets pass the coils inducing an electric current. Lightning causes the same effect, as the act of lightning involves massive current, inductive and capacitance events.

I suspect that there is a pattern in your room, as distance is your friend.
Does one lamp switch more frequently? The closer? Does the switching tend to happen more when going from fast to slow than the other way round?

What can be done. As said, you must shield the lamps from the source.....again, distance is your friend. There are no guaranteed solutions but try moving the lamps (impractical) or using different globes. Often higher wattage are less susceptable. If the fan is an older model you might change it out...newer ones may have a different EMF signature.


HOWEVER There is a risk that your problem is nothing to do with the afore-mentioned electro energy principals. You may be a victim of a bizarre mental connection that aliens have established with certain humans on this earth. Particularly those conducive to probing! They may be communicating to you via the fan and lamp EMF energies! Your only option if this is the case is to wear an alfoil hat similar to the type in the photo.

Regards
Ralph

[Blknight.aus]

its a back EMF fault out of the fan controller or the fan motor

try the lights in different power sockets in the house and try some different bulbs in the lights.

if that doesnt sort the problem you may be up to change the controllers on the fans or the fan motors themselves.

The description of the way the lights work from ralph is entertaining and close

the lights work much like an amplifier they detect the minute change in the electrical properties of the lamps casing when you touch it. For fun and games if you have little kids get them to find out what else they can touch the lamp with and make it change.

[WhiteD3]

HOWEVER There is a risk that your problem is nothing to do with the afore-mentioned electro energy principals. You may be a victim of a bizarre mental connection that aliens have established with certain humans on this earth. Particularly those conducive to probing! They may be communicating to you via the fan and lamp EMF energies! Your only option if this is the case is to wear an alfoil hat similar to the type in the photo.

Regards
Ralph[/FONT]

Dear Ralph, thank you for your detailed analysis of the problem and the solution. Unfortunately you left out the job safety analyses and risk assessment procedures. I made the hats, matching of course except SWMBO wanted one in pink (had to glue material to the foil). Sadly, while performing our biannual ritual SWMBO's antenna got caught in the fan and she subsequently flung around the room a few times, coming to rest in the walk-in-wardrobe. No real damage done although the ambulance officer gave me some funny looks when I explained about the hat.

SWMBO would like to meet you face to face to express her gratitude, and just before she lost consciousness was mumbling something about knowing exactly where that ball of foil should go. :D

[scarry]

Sounds like you need an energy polariser,just make sure you put the crystals in the right place in the room.
You will have to work this out yourself by trial & error,should only take a few minutes.
Now everything will work fine:p


Good luck


Seriously,though,a relative of ours had a problem where turning on the fan in their bedroom with the remote control it was supplied with, also turned on an outside light.The outside light is powered all the time & has a light sensor built into it.He got the electrician back 5 times & the problem is still not resolved.....has removed the light bulb for the time being.

[robzilla]

try and get your hands on a couple of these, clip one or two around each power cable for the lamps, near the wall plug. look like magnets but they're called Ferrite Beads. You see them commonly on laptop power cables and what not.

The fan controllers will be causing interference in the power circuit, so you need to shield the lamps somehow from this.

http://mivasecure.abac.com/shinemicroinc/graphics/00000001/ferrite.gif

Link on how they work. As it says, they're goal is to reduce electromanetic interference.
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/question352.htm

Found some on Fleabay!
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/-FERRITE---BEADS---Clip--On----Quality-TDK------3-sizes_W0QQitemZ150401331022QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20 091230?IMSfp=TL091230202001r14874

[miky]

I go with robzilla.

Those damn lights come on real easy when they sense a bit of rf.

Even the neighbours touch lamps.

Jaycar sell the ferrite beads. Don't always work though.

[VladTepes]

Mate if you are too lazy to use a damn switch, you deserve these problems !

[PhilipA]

Not a great endorsemnet of the "Intelligent House " that the nerds are trying to thrust upon us.
If we cannot get 2 lamps and a fan to work together what hope for turning the coffee on?

My fan is a remote one with a light. Hasn't done it recently but used to turn the light on at 12 or so at night. My theory is that it is the hot water turn on pulse. But it certainly wakes you up, sort of like sleep deprivation torture.

Regards Philip A

[VladTepes]

Our new office building has (thanks to Mr Garret that bastard)

- environmentally friendly zone-sensing aircon. Great, except its an open plan building so it doesn't work very well. Doesn't cool a region til you've been there for about 10 minutes and it works out it needs to cool you.

- CBUS lighting throughout - techs on site almost daily to fix it .. it's rubbish. (Great in theory, rubbish in practice).

and on it goes.

None of it is very "smart" I can tell you.

[robzilla]

Not a great endorsemnet of the "Intelligent House " that the nerds are trying to thrust upon us.
If we cannot get 2 lamps and a fan to work together what hope for turning the coffee on?

My fan is a remote one with a light. Hasn't done it recently but used to turn the light on at 12 or so at night. My theory is that it is the hot water turn on pulse. But it certainly wakes you up, sort of like sleep deprivation torture.

Regards Philip A
Our amp on the downstairs telly will turn itself on at random, change to the radio and stay on for 10 seconds or so, then just turn itself off again.
Freaks the crap out of ya when you're home alone! :lol2:

[d@rk51d3]

Tell her to sleep on the lounge. :D

[scarry]

Our new office building has (thanks to Mr Garret that bastard)

- environmentally friendly zone-sensing aircon. Great, except its an open plan building so it doesn't work very well. Doesn't cool a region til you've been there for about 10 minutes and it works out it needs to cool you.

- CBUS lighting throughout - techs on site almost daily to fix it .. it's rubbish. (Great in theory, rubbish in practice).

and on it goes.

None of it is very "smart" I can tell you.


Here we go again,inverter A/c units,hybrid cars,heat pump hotwater
systms,the list goes on......

Highly complicated crap......to put it politely.

And it isn't just Garret,the Qld government is just as bad.Dunno the truth,but i believe we can't buy a normal simple electric hot water systm anywhere anymore,that is one with a heater & a t/stat.
And when you sell your house you have to have an energy audit?:confused:

Smart,they think,but we will all feel it in our pockets,for maybe very little gain:(


Anyway,hope you have got the lights & fans sorted:angel:

[Blknight.aus]

they put the intelligent sensing lights in the library of the new workshop.

its great the lights come on about 2 seconds after you enter the room and stay on for about 5 minutes.

then they go out and you have to back track out of the library room because the sensor cant see you over the top of the book shelves.

[lewy]

just seen this post,we had cheepy touch lamps,they came on when there was an electrical storm on.pretty use full in darwin,not