Cylinder Head disintegrates on my P38 - 3 months after buying it.

[lorkers]

Well, I now know what driving a P38 without any coolant causes.
After the "little incident" mentioned in
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/94205-using-e10-ethanol-unleaded-my-p38.html
when the top hose exploded from the engine, and my lovely P38 peed a waterfall of coolant all over the car park (my other half was driving, nothing to do with me I may add) I thought the engine sounded "a bit rougher".

Over the past 1k km it's gone from a slight wheeze to a clicking... to now a distinct chuffing noise on the front nearside cylinder. Slowly, in low gear, you can feel the jerking as that cylinder is obviously dead. On the hottest day we had for 5 years - 43 degrees - last Friday I HAD to drive up the coast, and it got so bad when I was half way there I staggered into the nearest dealer. And they confirmed the bad news: gasket gone, cylinder head warped.

That'll be a "basic" quote of $4000 please... probably a lot more once they see what other damage has been done.

The dealer I bought it from refused to touch it, because I've just (by only a few days!) gone over the 3 month limit. Grrrrr...

But I do have an aftermarket warranty - which will pay out a total of $550 for a dead cylinder head. Like that will go far!

So... best / cheapest place to start taking the top off is I've found is the one p31aRover kindly mentioned in Sydney - half the price. Of course it's a $400 tow to get it there (car is still driveable, but I don't wana risk it...)

This sounds cheap... is there a cheaper alternative... and do I dare take the risk of just doing the side that's gone phhht? In fact, I haven't done a Cylinder Head since my old Rover days in the UK.. can you just do one side in the P38?

Oh, and three lessons learnt: if you hear a chuffing noise on each revolution of the engine... STOP! And as I've told the other half... if all the coolant drops out of the engine and it starts clattering like farm machinery... STOP! And for goodness sake, don't put that ethonol stuff in...

[wayneg]

Sorry to hear of your issues. Have you given any thought to trying a Sodium Silicate type sealer additive even if its just to get you to the garage. I know many frown upon it but ................$$$$$$$$$$$$$.......??. I know what I would try.

[PaulP38a]

Bad news brother, I feel your pain.

All is not lost, and you can do most of it yourself. All you need are a few good tools and patience... does this sound like a sales pitch? No, if I can do it anyone with some sense and willingness can do it... damn, still sounds like a sales pitch!

I've documented a fair bit of the top-end refresh here Engine Refresh (top end) PaulP38A.com (http://paulp38a.com/99p38a/engine-refresh/) and will hopefully get around to finishing it one day.

Most important thing is to get a new/reco set of heads. Hint: PM "Andrew e" on this forum as he might know a bloke who can help.

You'll need new gaskets (heads, valley, manifolds, rocker covers), head and rocker cover bolts, and o-rings for the coolant lines. Might as well replace the hoses and serpentine belt at the same time.

If you decide not to change over the tappets/lifters, make sure you replace them in exactly the same position. The general opinion on the forum is to change the tappets and camshaft at the same time. I elected to change only the tappets... so far so good. Changing the camshaft makes the job much bigger as you need to remove the engine.

Suppliers I used for the job were http://karcraft.com.au (http://karcraft.com.au/), Gary Gjerde (clr4wdparts on eBay), and Canberra Motor Works.

Cost in parts? I haven't worked it out exactly but think it was around the $1500 mark including reco heads. Most expensive part is the cylinder heads... perhaps your aftermarket warranty could at least cover that?

Never mind the Nurofen and physiotherapy bills since then ;) just be sure to practice good posture when leaning over the engine bay for extended periods of time.

Feel free to PM me for more info if I can be of assistance.

Cheers, Paul.

[p38arover]

Cylinder Head disintegrates on my P38A

Well, that's a bit of an exaggeration. The head may need servicing but it should be OK.


Sorry to hear of your issues. Have you given any thought to trying a Sodium Silicate type sealer additive even if its just to get you to the garage. I know many frown upon it but ................$$$$$$$$$$$$$.......??. I know what I would try.

It sounds like the side of the gasket has blown out. Sealer won't fix that. I had a 1" section blow out of mine and it also made a chuffing sound as I drove it home. See attached.


Changing the camshaft makes the job much bigger as you need to remove the engine.

It can be replaced in situ. I did mine. You need to pull off the grille and, if I recall correctly, the oil cooler.

[Blknight.aus]

Id pull the heads and measure them and the block deck first....

Then make your decision on how to proceed.

[p38arover]

When the heads are off, get them hardness checked before spending any money on them. It's a simple test.

[lorkers]

Happy Australia Day. Least it was, until the aforementioned "incident".


Well, that's a bit of an exaggeration. The head may need servicing but it should be OK.

Just for dramatic effect... well actually, the words of the stealer were "your head's had it mate...", but optimism rules eternal for the P38 driver, and I have hopes of it living again.


It sounds like the side of the gasket has blown out. Sealer won't fix that. I had a 1" section blow out of mine and it also made a chuffing sound as I drove it home. See attached.

Good pic... I haven't as yet seen mine...


It can be replaced in situ. I did mine. You need to pull off the grille and, if I recall correctly, the oil cooler.

...without pulling the rest of the gubbins? I'll try anything to see if it works before coughing for a new head...

[p38arover]

Re the cam, no, I meant after stripping everything else off, that's about all that has also to be removed. Oh, and water pump, timing case/chain/sprockets, and the slam panel (4 bolts).

[Kalincho]

It seems to be an Australia Day Tradition, this time last year my P38 was being towed 400km from the south of WA! Good Luck with the rebuild!

[p38arover]

Just for dramatic effect... well actually, the words of the stealer were "your head's had it mate...", ...

Dunno how he'd know without pulling them off.

[davo52]

been there done that and I would hate to get anyone down but the terms of that aftermarket warranty might need checking. They more often than not will exlude anything resulting (in their opinion) from a loss of coolant or other fluids.

[PaulP38a]

Engine Refresh (http://paulp38a.com/99p38a/engine-refresh/) page has been updated with cleaning/preparation (http://paulp38a.com/99p38a/engine-refresh/engine-refresh-part-2/)and reassembly (http://paulp38a.com/99p38a/engine-refresh/engine-refresh-part-3/) pages.

Since I had to combine first pass (no change of lifters/push rids) with second pass (changed lifters/rods) I think the pages are about 90% complete.

If you find any gaping holes, please let me know and I will correct.

All original photo history is located at Engine Refresh (http://paulp38a.com/gallery/v/99RR/Engine/) and Lifters and Rockers (http://paulp38a.com/gallery/v/99RR/lifters_and_rockers/)

Cheers, Paul.

[lorkers]

the terms of that aftermarket warranty might need checking.

Too damn right. Except they've got me on, what seems like, a catch 22 situation. My poor Rangie has now clicked round to exactly 10 years old... and that means, according to the warranty, it has to have a full service every 3 months, not 6 as was. And... get this... although it was just before the 3 months limit when the head went, it is now just after that 3 month limit as the claim is going in. So they won't pay a penny - or rather they say that it needs a full service and a roadworthy cirt before they will reinstate the warranty - which is rather hard to get because the lid is off the top of the engine! Thank you National Warranty Company. I thought they'd find a way to wiggle out of it... and they have. Bunch of shysters.

And... and... now halfway through the rebuild... we've found someone has had the head off before, and mangled up the old bolts so every one has had to have a helicoil! $$$$$$$$$$...

Sigh.

Welcome to Australia.

Remind me why I drive a Range Rover?

[Aussie]

I'd be as mad as Hell, and too make things worse all the threads are buggered. Really sorry too hear about your RR. If you were in Melbourne I'd come over for a beer when your in the Garage.

[poleonpom]

It's hurting and you're asking yourself why? why? WHY?

That first seductive drive has led you down a road of clandestine pleasure only to end up squeezing not just your wallet, but your plums too...:o

But, carry on, you'll be behind the wheel soon and everything will melt into the sublime and you'll think that like any decent Mistress, she's worth the money and worth the effort.

Range Rovers are a well-bred demanding mistress and even when you spoil them they want more....I believe it was Chaucer who wrote: "Women with titles go for your vitals" - enough said ;)

[lorkers]

you'll be behind the wheel soon and everything will melt into the sublime and you'll think that like any decent Mistress, she's worth the money and worth the effort.

Ah, the joy of the open road! And I'm back on it! Hurrah! Would you believe noone had changed the plugs in... well, about 130,000 miles by the look of the state of them!

Now I'm back behind the wheel with my plums well and truly though the mangle, but the engine is running like new... :)

Except... except... it's now hunting! dead on 80kph it has that classic jerky movement that disappears if I put my foot down for a moment, or slow down...

As I was saying... why oh why oh why...

[incisor]

As I was saying... why oh why oh why...
they call it character building for a reason :p

hope it is an easy one...