D4 Electric Trailer Brake Wiring

[PaulGOz]

I also need to fit a breakaway brake backup battery monitoring light on the dash, I believe this is a road rule in some states. My trailer has the monitor wired to the reversing light pin so hopefully cutting that and directing it to the dash monitoring light will do the job. The other reasonable alternative would be to use the spare pins in the white plug.

[Kingsley]

Thanks Sniegy, NSW law requires trailers (inc caravans) over two tonnes to have breakaway and includes note as below:
the towing vehicle is equipped with an electrical circuit which will automatically maintain the trailer battery in a fully charged condition and is capable of warning the driver if the condition of the trailer battery is such that it may not be capable of meeting the above requirements. Meaning - a status light or buzzer.

Here is the full reg if anyone is interested http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vsi/vsi22.pdf

[ken224]

I have read the attached information (No.22). People writing these documents must be lawyers without understanding the real-world issues. And we must follow what they say...

The document requires a connection from the trailer to the towing vehicle for the signalling purposes (to inform the driver of the break-away battery status).

Another standard (AS2513, I think) specifies specifies the standard connector between the vehicle and the trailer. There is no provision for such a signal there.

So are we supposed to use a non-stardard electrical connector or are we supposed to ignore the requirement for the battery status display?

Anybody knows?

No wonder Land Rover are ignoring Australian standards and are simply fitting the British standard sockets. It all makes sense now.

[ken224]

Further to my last post:

I have checked the "Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 38/03 – Trailer Brake Systems) 2007" and there is no trace of any requirement for trailers between 2t and 4.5t to include an "electrical circuit which ... is capable of warning the driver ..."

Not even for trailers over 4.5t ATM.

From the document:

4.4. Every trailer having a ‘Gross Trailer Mass’ over 2 tonnes must be
equipped with an efficient ‘Emergency Brake System’ which will cause
immediate automatic application of its ‘Brakes’ in the event of the trailer
accidentally becoming disconnected from the drawing vehicle. ‘Brakes’
so applied must remain applied for at least 15 minutes.

4.5. Trailers up to 4.5 tonnes ‘ATM’ are not required to comply with other
clauses of this rule.

Unless there is a newer ADR 38/x with the requirement for this circuit, it would seem that "Vehicle Standards Information No. 22" is a brainchild of a NSW bureaucrat and applies only in NSW :(:question: Besides, it is dated 1998 and probably trumped by the said ADR38/03.

[PeterJ]

Hi all, first of all would like to thank all contributors to this thread, Sniegy in particular and as a first post I hope to add some info that others may also find useful.

Still in the throws of finishing the EBC install on my MY13 D4, a Tekonsha P2, and have installed it under the steering column on the left hand side of the column adjust lever.

Here are some pic's of the finished install, (next time I will crop them) the upside of this location is that it tucks up quite nicely but you still have easy access to the manual override lever on the bottom and good enough access to the other two controls if you need them.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/633.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/634.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/635.jpg

The down side is you loose most of the steering column vertical adjustment. For me it's not a problem, the column stays where it is anyway, (I am 187cm) but you can balance the loss of vertical movement by locating the controller toward the center of the column. This will require you to reduce the width of the column adjusting lever on the inner edge, but again I do not see it as a significant modification.

This is the bracket design, or a sketch that I was going to use to model it in CAD, hence it is a bit rough, but the shape is accurate. Like many, a bit time poor so the CAD model is low priority. If you are considering this and want a better image send me an email and I will send it to you or download it from the gallery.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/636.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/637.jpg

I used 2 expanding wall anchors to provide a positive attachment, you drill 7mm diameter hole, put the anchor in and expand it, you end up with an M4 screw to use for the attachment. There are no issues with clearance to any components inside the steering column cover lower.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/638.jpg

I used some 1.6mm stainless that I had sitting around, but mild steel would be fine. I have since painted it black, but unpainted contrasts better in the photo. White marks are chalk lines for location.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/639.jpg

Just doing this post was a bit of an education in itself, hope it might be of use.

A couple of final thoughts, on advice from this thread I went looking for 4mm^2 wire (this "^" means raised to the power of) for the brake feed to the rear. It seems auto electricians call it 6mm wire. I actually counted the strands (52) and measured the diameter of the individual strand (0.3mm) and calculated that the cross sectional area of the copper conductor (the important bit) is 3.68mm^2, so, nominally 4mm^2 conductor. I talked to the auto electrician I bought the wire from and they could not actually explain it, but there you go.

Last thing (sorry), I also found a thing called a stud diode to put in the red brake wire, it is physically a lot bigger than a typical 3A diode and makes connection easy and does not reduce your 4mm^2 conductor down to 1.3mm^2 through the diode.


PeterJ

[sniegy]

Just a quick question Peter,
You say the Diode in the Blue wire? :o
Just wanting to confirm that this is a typo & you haven't installed the Diode in the blue wire as it SHOULD be the RED wire as per install instructions.

Cheers;)

[Epic]

I'm having a P2 fitted after Easter. I was also going to get my 7 pin plug removed and a 12 pin plug put back in its place. Is there any reason not to do this? I have a trailer with a 7 pin plug (5wires) but I can get the converter for that I'd welcome everyone's thoughts.

[ken224]

If you live in Australia (and do not intend to tow British trailers), it makes all the sense to install an Australian 12 pin flat socket. Good luck finding a round 12 core cable to fit into the socket though. I bought mine online from UK ...

You might try installing a 7 core and a thick 5 core cable together, however you will probably find that they do not fit into any available 12 pin socket.

[sniegy]

Has been done hundreds of times before & yes a good idea. This way you end up being able to tow 3 types of trailers.
7 Pin Round, 7 Pin Flat & 12 Pin Flat, which covers just about all trailers.

[Epic]

Thanks for the pic. I did plan on swapping out the black right hand plug for the 12 pin and eventually swapping the white one for an Anderson plug. I guess I'll do as per this pic.

[sniegy]

Epic, With using a 12 Pin plug is there really a need for an Anderson plug?
Not sure of your requirements but being in contact with a lot of trailer manufacturers lately a lot seem to be going this way, just using a 12 Pin plug which has room in the top 5 pins to be able to use this an Anderson plug replacement. One plug that does everything.

Cheers.

[Epic]

The thought process behind the Anderson plug was that the standard wiring wouldn't be able to handle the current. The brake guys were going to do the Anderson wiring a whole lot thicker and do the van to match. Perhaps not necessary.

[PeterJ]

Hi Sniegy, yes it was a late night typo, I tried to go back in the day after but I was out side of the edit window, it is in the red wire as per the instructions.


I will try to contact the site administrator and fix it, thanks.


PeterJ

[PeterJ]

[Just a quick question Peter,
You say the Diode in the Blue wire? :o
Just wanting to confirm that this is a typo & you haven't installed the Diode in the blue wire as it SHOULD be the RED wire as per install instructions.

Cheers;) ]


Hi Sniegy, yes it was a late night typo, I tried to go back in the day after but I was out side of the edit window, it is in the red wire as per the instructions.
(Mucked up putting your quote is as well, still learning I am afraid)

I will try to contact the site administrator and fix it, thanks.


PeterJ

[Epic]

So just following on with the 12 pin conversion, if the camper trailer has LED's, presumably, you could run a 'plug in' load resistor on the 7 pin socket (wired across an indicator terminal) and use the new 12 pin for the camper right? That would be simple if you can. Can't see why not. Thoughts?

[Magic]

Epic, With using a 12 Pin plug is there really a need for an Anderson plug?
Not sure of your requirements but being in contact with a lot of trailer manufacturers lately a lot seem to be going this way, just using a 12 Pin plug which has room in the top 5 pins to be able to use this an Anderson plug replacement. One plug that does everything.

Cheers.

Thank you to all the contributors on this post. I've just spent the best part of two hours trying to get my head round this subject. My husband is not into computers, so I do the trawling on the forum for any relevant info, so please understand my lack of too much technical knowledge.
Here's a quick run down of our problem.
I bought my MY11 D4 TDV6 a year ago and it came already fitted with a P3 EBC which worked through a 7 pin flat trailer plug. We tow a camper trailer, weighing about 1200kg full loaded. The EBC worked fine, as did all the trailer lights (LED's).
About 2 months ago, in preparation for a 4 month trip to the Kimberley, we replaced the electric brakes on the trailer. Straight swap - whole unit off, whole unit on.
We also recently decided to replace the 7 pin with a 12 pin plug so we could run the fridge in the camper from just the one plug, rather than the Anderson plug that was there before.
The auto-elec we got to do the job said it was a relatively easy swap. After getting it home, we tried the camper on the car and found the EBC didn't recognise the trailer. Back to the auto-elec who had made a mistake with wiring the number 5 pin. All fixed and home again.
Last weekend, we went to give it a test drive, and the controller recognises the camper, but the brakes to the camper don't come on when the brake pedal is used. The camper brakes can be put on by using the manual override lever, but even when adjusted fully up, don't slow the camper much with the pedal.
Just to check it wasn't the unit, we took the remote head of the P3 out and swapped it with the Tekonsha unit in my husband's Defender. My unit worked fine in the Defender, and his unit did the same thing in the D4.
Rang the auto-elec who is coming on Saturday to have another look, but says he can't think what it would be!
That trip to the Kimberley is now only 10 days away and I'm starting to get edgy.
Does anyone have any ideas what it could be - hopefully something simple like a fuse or a relay? I'm going to print out all 27 pages of this thread to show the auto-elec (he'll love that!).

[RickO]

G'Day 'Sniegy', 'Drivesafe', All,

Being about to start on the well trodden route of hooking up a jayco caravan to a D4 I find myself with the often discussed 'to 12pin flat or no to 12 pin flat' decision.


From what Jayco tells me the maximum current draw re the fridge on pin 9 (ignition) would be about 9-10 amps going directly to the fridge while pin 2 (permanent) goes to the battery in the van after it has been thru power management unit.


Noting that there are a multitude of threads which I have tried to check out before posting, I have a couple questions that I hope you might be able to answer regarding to the replacement of the white 12S plug with a 12pin flat
plug.


1. How would the 12 pin (replacing the white 12S) be connected up? Would the feeds for the indicator, break light wires etc simply get tapped from the rear of the black 12N plug?

2. Could the +ve and -ve wires from a Traxide rear 'Anderson' plug be fed into the rear of a standard 12 pin plug (pin 4 - permanent 12V) - in order to enable battery charging via charger/solar using a separate 12pin plug with just the permanent 12V and ground pins present?

3. And most importantly of all, would you consider the replacement of the white 12S with a 12pin to be a DIY job? If not, could you provide an estimate of the likely cost to have this done? Is this something your place does Sniegy?


Thanks a mil,
RickO

[disco4now]

Hi Magic,

The P3 has some really handy diagnostics you may not have come across yet. Access them by pressing the bottom right hand button (looks like and open book) and then arrow down to help, select that with OK (the book button), arrow down again to troubleshooting and select that with OK (the book button).
You can now arrow through 4 readings which can help diagnose the problems. ie.
1. Battery Voltage
2. stop light voltage (what you get to trigger the thing from the brake light)
3. Output voltage
4. Output Current (this should be very useful)

The reading at 2 (stop light voltage) should be around 12V when you either manually operate EBC or put foot on the brake. Manually operated the P3 puts the 12V on itself, foot on brake its expecting the 12V to come from the brake light circuit. If the trailer brake lights come on then look where the red wire from the P3 is connected as it should be picking this up.( maybe via a diode ?). If the trailer brake lights don't come on then you will need to determine why and this will probably resolve issue with EBC triggering as well.
Info on P3 diagnostics is down around page 22 on this post.

Regards
Gerry

[sniegy]

Magic,
With all the work that the Auto sparky has done it could be anything.
He may have done a great job & it may be the wiring of the new brakes.

It is hard to comment without physically investigating the work.

Just show the Auto sparky how it is supposed to be done via the first page & if he has followed this all should be fine.

Also do not connect the brake light pick up from under the dash. It should be done from the rear on the trailer wiring harness itself...Oh & also to include the diode.

Cheers & good luck.

[RickO]

Hello again everyone,

Apologies for the barrage of questions :angel:.

Can i ask for guidance/suggestions on whether I should be considering a P3 (or similar) brake controller for a jayco 17 foot expanda outback van or is the remote head red arc unit ok?

I like the ability to hide the remote head behind the headlight light panel to the RHS of the steering wheel, but would not want t compromise on the family's safety just for the sake of a concealed install.

....just hoping that I can contribute back as much to the forum...

thanks again,
RickO

[sniegy]

HiRick, See Below for answers.


G'Day 'Sniegy', 'Drivesafe', All,

Being about to start on the well trodden route of hooking up a jayco caravan to a D4 I find myself with the often discussed 'to 12pin flat or no to 12 pin flat' decision.


From what Jayco tells me the maximum current draw re the fridge on pin 9 (ignition) would be about 9-10 amps going directly to the fridge while pin 2 (permanent) goes to the battery in the van after it has been thru power management unit.


Noting that there are a multitude of threads which I have tried to check out before posting, I have a couple questions that I hope you might be able to answer regarding to the replacement of the white 12S plug with a 12pin flat
plug.


1. How would the 12 pin (replacing the white 12S) be connected up? Would the feeds for the indicator, break light wires etc simply get tapped from the rear of the black 12N plug?

**Yes, Just connect to the 12N Black plug, preferably solder if your that handy. **Can use "Bullet Connectors" BUT No "Scotch Locks"

2. Could the +ve and -ve wires from a Traxide rear 'Anderson' plug be fed into the rear of a standard 12 pin plug (pin 4 - permanent 12V) - in order to enable battery charging via charger/solar using a separate 12pin plug with just the permanent 12V and ground pins present?

**Pin 4 is R/H Indicator? SO not sure what you mean. refer attachment.
**If you mean in Pins 9 & 10 then i don't see too much of a problem.


3. And most importantly of all, would you consider the replacement of the white 12S with a 12pin to be a DIY job? If not, could you provide an estimate of the likely cost to have this done? Is this something your place does Sniegy?

**If you are handy with basic tools, you can follow wiring instructions then Yes.

**I work for a dealer in Melbourne, so i have done this plenty of times.
**$495.00 to S&F 12 Pin flat plug in Lieu of 12S White plug only.


Thanks a mil,
RickO

[sniegy]

Rick,
Consider also the "New" Red Arc Unit.
EBRH-ACC Tow Pro
Tow-Pro™ Electric Trailer Brake Controller - REDARC (http://www.redarc.com.au/products/product/tow-pro/)
It is a progressive braking unit & not a bulky unit also.

Cheers

[Jimlr]

Tow-pro certainly looks the goods. Could be tempted to swap out the P3 for this. Is there room in (behind) the headlamp switch panel for a 10mm hole and the remote head unit/knob, so it can all look nice and neat?

[sniegy]

Jim,
Have a client wanting one fitted Thursday.
Will let you know next weekend if you can wait as i have not seen one physically in my hand yet.

Cheers

[sniegy]

Jim, All,
The newer style RED ARC unit fits no problems at all.
Instructions are first rate & if followed to a "T" It all fits very well.

The controller knob fits easily in the D4 head light switch panel, it also fits on the steering shroud on either side. Just be careful fitting here as it is longer so make sure you make a dummy out of foam then stick & fit to make sure it doesn't touch anything.

Cheers

[Tombie]

Which location did you end up fitting the switch Pete?

Got any pics?

[sniegy]

Hi Mike,
Just did a Sport today & finally got the kit in my hand to physically look at.

Fitted it to the L/H/S Steering column shroud (as this one had an Auto Column switch on the R/H/S).
May be able to grab a snap as i have finished it late this arvo & client wants it early in the morning.
See how i go.:p

Cheers

[Scary]

Just out of interest we just upgraded to a D4 and as part of the delivery we had a Redarc EBC fitted (remote unit).

This unit even at low settings applies the brakes on the trailer with a great deal more force than our P3 did in the D3.

I know the P3 works on inertia but as noted earlier in this thread I wound it up to full power and boost and applied the manual lever and it applied the trailer brakes less at full power than the redarc does at say 3.

Just my experience having now used both units with the same trailer.

[BJM]

Just out of interest we just upgraded to a D4 and as part of the delivery we had a Redarc EBC fitted (remote unit).

This unit even at low settings applies the brakes on the trailer with a great deal more force than our P3 did in the D3.

I know the P3 works on inertia but as noted earlier in this thread I wound it up to full power and boost and applied the manual lever and it applied the trailer brakes less at full power than the redarc does at say 3.

Just my experience having now used both units with the same trailer.

I haven't read your other posts relating to the P3 but something doesn't sound right. I've been using a P3 with my racecar trailer for a few years now. Without the car on the trailer I set it to 2 and with the car on (~1800kg inc trailer) it gets set to 5.8. Any more than that and I can feel the trailer stopping the car.

Having said that I have just this weekend purchased my first Discovery 4 and haven't decided yet if I will stick with the P3 or go for something a little more "stealth".

[VK3GJM]

Hi,

Any photos available on the proposed mounting of the remote control in the headlight facia.

My task this weekend in the installation of the Tow Pro.

By the way, if trailer magnets progressively need more current/longer duty cycle to apply a greater force for braking, a 3 amp diode something like a 1N5404 may not be sufficient, the voltage drop and then heat it needs to dissipate may limit the diode's life and could fail when extreme proportional force is needed.

Redarc suggests that the Tow Pro could deliver nominally 18 amps, a single axle trailer could proportionally draw 6-9 amps each depending on braking condition.

At minimum I would suggest a 6 amp axial diode, Jaycar has a P600A. Cat no. ZR1024.

I am a bit amused why LR has never installed a separate electric brake control wiring harness/plug. My previous v10 Touareg was truly plug and play.

My install, will be interesting, as I have already fitted a full Kaymar rear wheel carrier, which has A full complement of LED's, only minor issue is LED indicators flashing each time any door closes.

More to come after the job is done. I will create a full set of PDF instructions.

Regards

Gerald

[Meken]

Hi,



Any photos available on the proposed mounting of the remote control in the headlight facia.



My task this weekend in the installation of the Tow Pro.



By the way, if trailer magnets progressively need more current/longer duty cycle to apply a greater force for braking, a 3 amp diode something like a 1N5404 may not be sufficient, the voltage drop and then heat it needs to dissipate may limit the diode's life and could fail when extreme proportional force is needed.



Redarc suggests that the Tow Pro could deliver nominally 18 amps, a single axle trailer could proportionally draw 6-9 amps each depending on braking condition.



At minimum I would suggest a 6 amp axial diode, Jaycar has a P600A. Cat no. ZR1024.



I am a bit amused why LR has never installed a separate electric brake control wiring harness/plug. My previous v10 Touareg was truly plug and play.



My install, will be interesting, as I have already fitted a full Kaymar rear wheel carrier, which has A full complement of LED's, only minor issue is LED indicators flashing each time any door closes.



More to come after the job is done. I will create a full set of PDF instructions.



Regards



Gerald


The diode should be upstream of where the ebc brake wire connects into trailer loom so the amps shouldn't be flowing through it - it should be resisting. I'm pretty rusty on my high school electronics so I may be confused by what you mean when you are talking about the voltage drop & heat might simply be from resisting the backward flow

[VK3GJM]

Hi Meken,

Upstream /downstream, if it is in series the same rules apply.

The only other option is across the magnets, thus preventing back EMF, a common effect with any coil.

Regards

Gerald

[BJM]

Any photos available on the proposed mounting of the remote control in the headlight facia.


I just had the tow pro installed in the headlight switch area yesterday. Unfortunately for you I didn't get any photos and the car's not actually due for delivery until next Monday.

[Jimlr]

BJM - who did your install? ...although I guess you can't recommend it until you've seen it/used it!

[BJM]

Neil Buckby Motors had a local Auto Sparky called Carswell Automotive install it.
I will post photos when I can. I'm itching to see it myself.

[VK3GJM]

I just had the tow pro installed in the headlight switch area yesterday. Unfortunately for you I didn't get any photos and the car's not actually due for delivery until next Monday.

BJM,

Where did they mount the control unit of of interest.

Just a quick shot of where I mounted the remote head. Very easy to install and gain access to the light control panel.

Spent the afternoon trying to trace back the trailer harness cabling. There must be another plug/socket somewhere else to plug a controller in.

Does anyone have detailed information on the electrical system, wiring diagram?

Regards

Gerald

[sniegy]

Gerald,
Don't waste your time. There is NOT one in the D4.
Have pulled many vehicles apart looking for this ilustrious plug.

Only in the V8 HSE spec for the USA market i was able to find out.

Mounting the ControlModule needs to be mounted solidly as if you read the instructions, if it moves it will need to be re-calibrated.

Cheers

[VK3GJM]

Hi Pete,

Thanks for that. Where does pin 7 wire go to, it appears to follow the loom from left rear to left front?

Regards

Gerald

[sniegy]

Pin 7 is L/H Tail Light circuit & runs from the CJB down the L/H/S of the vehicle to the wiring harness plug.
Don't forget this wire starts as a "Brown" wire from the CJB & the goes into a Splice joint then becomes 2 wires.
Brown-Pin 5 L/H park light circuit (we modify this to feed the Electric trailer brake circuit)
Black-Pin 7 R/H park light circuit.

[VK3GJM]

Hi Pete,

Thanks for that. OK, diode explained, 1N5404 or similar 3 amp axial diode is fine in that application.

Regards

Gerald

[Meken]

Pin 7 is L/H Tail Light circuit & runs from the CJB down the L/H/S of the vehicle to the wiring harness plug.

Don't forget this wire starts as a "Brown" wire from the CJB & the goes into a Splice joint then becomes 2 wires.

Brown-Pin 5 L/H park light circuit (we modify this to feed the Electric trailer brake circuit)

Black-Pin 7 R/H park light circuit.


So when you use the manual lever on the ebc, the brake lights will not illuminate ??

A P3 sends current down the "sense" wire to the brake light when manual lever used !

[Graeme]

I didn't fit a diode to my D4's sense wire for the P3.

[BJM]

I haven't managed to find where they hid the "electronics box" for my tow pro yet but here's the controls.

[rufusking]

Pin 7 is L/H Tail Light circuit & runs from the CJB down the L/H/S of the vehicle to the wiring harness plug.
Don't forget this wire starts as a "Brown" wire from the CJB & the goes into a Splice joint then becomes 2 wires.
Brown-Pin 5 L/H park light circuit (we modify this to feed the Electric trailer brake circuit)
Black-Pin 7 R/H park light circuit.
Hey Sniegy, question regarding the wiring diagram for trailer brake controller, with the current sensing that happens at the negative battery terminal (I think I understand this correctly) wouldn't it be better to connect the negative side of the power supply to a ground stud?

[Meken]

I haven't managed to find where they hid the "electronics box" for my tow pro yet but here's the controls.


It's upside down ;)

[BJM]

It's very hard to operate the headlight switch when it's upside down too :D

[sniegy]

Hey Sniegy, question regarding the wiring diagram for trailer brake controller, with the current sensing that happens at the negative battery terminal (I think I understand this correctly) wouldn't it be better to connect the negative side of the power supply to a ground stud?

All connections to the -ve side of the "Battery" go to the Earth stud as previously mentioned.

Cheers

[redsport]

Hi Guys,

Have been reading the various comments on the electric brakes. have a 2012 D4, fitted with Tekonsha p3 controller, works a treat. Collecting a brand new 2014 RRS end this week and will need to fit a new controller to this. Any ideas about the connection or if they will be different from the D4 ?. I was hoping for the "Grey plug" that is mentioned in other forums, but i see now that they are only in the USA versions. I did not fit the unit into the D4, so need some advice for the new one.

Regards

Terry

[Graeme]

I wouldn't assume any wiring similarity between the 2014 RRS and the D4 as the RRS now uses FFRR wiring, eg the battery and main fuse panel are in the rear.

[Graeme]

Here's the 2014 RRS trailer socket wiring diagram. It looks as though it has a 12-pin socket with Aussie wiring too!

81340

[BJM]

I've now had the opportunity to put the RedArc Tow Pro through it's paces. It is very easy to use and very discreet but it is not as progressjve and unobtrusive as my old Tekonsha P3.
The tow pro brake application is much more abrupt and "jerky" than the P3. At first I thought I had it set too high but turning it right down didn't seem to solve the issue.
Don't get me wrong, it is much better than the old hydraulic brakes and if I hadn't been using a P3 for the last few years I would probably not even notice the slight "jerk".

[jonesy63]

Does it have to be calibrated or just use out of the box?

[VK3GJM]

Just in the process of installing mine, but it does need cal.


These are suppose to be the bees knees of controllers. Let's hope I don't regret the purchase and it is progressive. Nothing worse than jerky aggressive application. For some people this could make them car sick?


Regards


Gerald

[BJM]

The controller was calibrated for me by the autoelectrican who installed it.

Don't worry Gerald you won't regret it. If I hadn't used the P3 previosuly I would be simging it's praises. It could also partly be that I am comparing the controllers fitted to different vehicles.

[Tombie]

Curious... Knowing how it is calibrated - what did your installer use to calibrate it?

[VK3GJM]

Hi All,

A mounting idea for the tow pro. Easy access and you can use the provided Ethernet cable and it's close to the firewall grommet.

Made an aluminium plate and bent ears down to fit the body bracket and existing screws.


Regards


Gerald

[sniegy]

Curious... Knowing how it is calibrated - what did your installer use to calibrate it?

Calibration process is in the install instructions Mike, It seems pretty easy, just like all the other's.
I haven't been able to set one up properly as we don't have the trailer when PD'ing vehicles.

Cheers Mate

[sniegy]

Hi All,

A mounting idea for the tow pro. Easy access and you can use the provided Ethernet cable and it's close to the firewall grommet.

Made an aluminium plate and bent ears down to fit the body bracket and existing screws.


Regards


Gerald

Good photo Gerald,
These units need to be solidly mounted too. Otherwise they will need to be calibrated every use, Then reset up.

Cheers

[Tombie]

I know Pete... The users trailer needs to be attached to perform calibration... A strange sensation!

And yes, as you state - the unit has a multi axis accelerometer and during calibration it sets alignment fore and aft. And intensity based on its initial calibration cycle.

If the installer in the OP post calibrated it for them I assume the trailer was provided?

[Meken]

That would probably cause an issue if it's supposed to have a trailer attached for calibration and it was done without trailer attached - would it even work if no trailer attached?

[redsport]

Thanks Graeme,

This info will help a lot.

Also managed to get the info on the grey connector under the dash for the direct connection of the electric trailer brake unit, this will eliminate all the extra cable as it is all there. info attached.

[VK3GJM]

Redsport,


I assume this is for a D4? If so, there is a better method for installing an Electric brake unit. Makes the wiring much simpler.


On a previous post there was an absolute answer, there is no connector?


What has changed?


Regards


Gerald

[Jimlr]

First scan looks like a RRS rear end, and that looks like a fairly standard 7 or 13 pin trailer electrics connector - just hidden differently to a D4.

The second scan indicates Left Hand Drive (look at the pedals) - suggests a US spec car, which apparently is the only market with the Grey trailer brake controller plug on a D4.

I could be wrong....

[Graeme]

Redsport is referring to a 2014 RRS, not a D4. The 2014 RRS is not based on the D3/D4/orig RRS.

[VK3GJM]

First scan looks like a RRS rear end, and that looks like a fairly standard 7 or 13 pin trailer electrics connector - just hidden differently to a D4.

The second scan indicates Left Hand Drive (look at the pedals) - suggests a US spec car, which apparently is the only market with the Grey trailer brake controller plug on a D4.

I could be wrong....

To me, the second picture looks like right hand drive and they may have the qualifier statement wrong. To the right of the throttle pedal is the A pillar down to the foor well.

The D4 has the same setup after you peel the plastics away, question is, is there a connector there and can the brake controller wire be spliced?

You will still need to remove the split cable arrangement at the rear of the vehicle, disconnecting pin 7 from pin 3!

Regards


Gerald

[VK3GJM]

Thanks Graeme,

This info will help a lot.

Also managed to get the info on the grey connector under the dash for the direct connection of the electric trailer brake unit, this will eliminate all the extra cable as it is all there. info attached.

Sniegy,

What's your take on this, especially the second file?

Regards

Gerald

[Graeme]

Collecting a brand new 2014 RRS end this week and will need to fit a new controller to this. Any ideas about the connection or if they will be different from the D4 ?
VK3GJM,
You seemed to have skipped over this and my subsequent comments about not being a D4!

[sniegy]

Gerald,
Plug is NOT in a D4.

Plug IS in the Sport/Vogue/Evoque.

Cheers

[LandyAndy]

I need a trailer brake controler for my D4.
I have a Prodigy in the D2,P3 I guess,its done very little work.
Was chatting with our spanner man today(who is also a auto sparky),he has no D4 experience but says the Prodigy is old school,get a Red Ark.
What do you guys reccomend.Use the one installed in the D2 or get a new one??? The Defender and Territory have Hayman Reece controlers(fitted when purchased)
Cheers
Andrew

[ADMIRAL]

I need a trailer brake controler for my D4.
I have a Prodigy in the D2,P3 I guess,its done very little work.
Was chatting with our spanner man today(who is also a auto sparky),he has no D4 experience but says the Prodigy is old school,get a Red Ark.
What do you guys reccomend.Use the one installed in the D2 or get a new one??? The Defender and Territory have Hayman Reece controlers(fitted when purchased)
Cheers
Andrew

Have a read of this thread from way back. The RedArc Towpro looks the goods. If you are doing a lot of offroad work , have a look at the Hayman Reese remote unit. I am using one at present. Both take up very little room, and can be fitted reasonably neatly into the D4 dash area. The larger old style units, are harder to fit in without looking like a pimple on an apple.( or is that an orange ? )
Make sure your lecky gets to read Sneigy's wiring instructions, regardless of his previous experience. The D4's are different because of the dual plugs at the rear, and the circuits are duplicated for some functions. ( the consequences of not getting it right are serious......and dramatic )

[redsport]

Ok guy's, I collected the new Sport on Friday 1st. The Plug IS there, the rear socket in the pic is a 12 pin, and this is what is on the new car, and the pic is a RHD !.

It all matches the info i posted, now all i need to find is the correct matching plug for the grey socket under the dash. They sell them on Ebay from the USA, but the cost is ridiculous.....
I will just use a connector strip if i have to.

p.s. had the new RRS fitted with Cooper LTZ 285-50/20 tyres, they fit, look great and are quiet.

regards Terry

[SBD4]

Ok guy's, I collected the new Sport on Friday 1st. The Plug IS there, the rear socket in the pic is a 12 pin, and this is what is on the new car, and the pic is a RHD !.

It all matches the info i posted, now all i need to find is the correct matching plug for the grey socket under the dash. They sell them on Ebay from the USA, but the cost is ridiculous.....
I will just use a connector strip if i have to.

p.s. had the new RRS fitted with Cooper LTZ 285-50/20 tyres, they fit, look great and are quiet.

regards Terry

That's good to hear Terry! It's about time they sent a car here with those things in place . Always seemed crazy to me that, for a car that is rated to tow 3.5T, you had to rip the car apart to install a brake controller with the risk of introducing issues (although Pete's instructions reduce the risk greatly).

BTW you had better work out how to post pics! We all want see the new beast!

[redsport]

Thanks sean,

Now all i have to do is sort out how to mount the UHF antenna, a dual battery system ( although Traxide is looking into one i hear ) and the rest of the plugs etc for towing my off road van, and i will be all set up as i was with the D4. If anyone has ideas about the UHF it would be great.

[Disco_Ben]

Photos of the new toy for you Dad......

At least one of us knows how to use the computer :wasntme:

:)

[redsport]

Ok, i have fitted the adapter loom that i made for the new RRS 2014 model, and all works like a charm ! The Female plug required to fit the one in the RRS loom is a Ford ignition loom item, got it from the wreckers for the sum of $2.00, just soldered on the wires from the Tekonsha electric brake controller and plugged it in. That is ALL that needs to be done, all the wires are in the existing loom all the way to the rear plug.

Terry

[Graeme]

What clues led you to the Ford and the wreckers?

[sniegy]

The Tekonsha Loom is a part that can be purchased separately (does not include the P3) for individual models as all the plug wiring is different for different models.

Only bad side is that it is not available in Australia.
Available in the US & the listing of vehicles is rather large.
I tried to buy looms Late last year for the vehicles we do....
BUT....
cost wise is was not viable.

I am off to the States next month & see what i can find.

Cheers

[redsport]

Hi Graeme,

Took a pick of the looms available from the USA, as they state that the same loom for LR and Ford, to a wrecker, and he recognized the plug, simple.....p.s. Sniegy is correct, the looms are for too expensive, and the freight is the worst part. So all we need to do is get the plug, as the wires on the loom with the P3 etc are long enough.

Terry

[Jimlr]

Think I'm sold on putting a tow pro in the new 14my d4, which is now only a couple of weeks away:). Only generally towing a light load, just over 800kg, occasionally a van.... Is the tow pro going to be a good choice?

Is there anyone in sydney worth trusting with the install, and drilling a 10mm hole in the dash!???

I assume the dealer will just farm it out to the local auto sparky if I ask them to do it ... then I can't necessarily insist a diode goes in, exact placement etc....

[redsport]

Hey Sniegy,

Should i be using a diode on the new install of the EBC to the new RRS ?, looking at all th past threads it seems you advise this addition, but do it need it this time, and if so where do i put it ?

[sniegy]

Yes, Diode should be used.
I install it in the loom at the controller end & again the Kathode is to face the controller.

Cheers.

[sniegy]

Think I'm sold on putting a tow pro in the new 14my d4, which is now only a couple of weeks away:). Only generally towing a light load, just over 800kg, occasionally a van.... Is the tow pro going to be a good choice?

Is there anyone in sydney worth trusting with the install, and drilling a 10mm hole in the dash!???

I assume the dealer will just farm it out to the local auto sparky if I ask them to do it ... then I can't necessarily insist a diode goes in, exact placement etc....

If you're ever in Melb, happy to do it for you.

Cheers

[mowog]

I just had a Redarc Tow Pro installed to replace the knee bashing P3. The rotary dial fits neatly behind the hand brake control.

[sniegy]

Not a fan of fitting it on the lower console (around handbrake area on the flat surface) because of its vicinity to being lent on, stood on, liquid dropped on, phone, purse, wallet or for that matter anything dropped on etc etc.
I still fit in either the light switch binnacle (R/H/S) or the steering column cowl on either side depending on 1. customer request 2. Electric steering column switch then determines.;)

Cheers

[Hatchy]

I just had a Redarc Tow Pro installed to replace the knee bashing P3. The rotary dial fits neatly behind the hand brake control.

Hi Mowog, who did you have the Tow Pro installed by? And have you tried it out yet? I am lining up the P3 or Tow Pro but unsure about Redarc due to this being the first of their models with an accelerometer in it.

[TerryO]

Think I'm sold on putting a tow pro in the new 14my d4, which is now only a couple of weeks away:). Only generally towing a light load, just over 800kg, occasionally a van.... Is the tow pro going to be a good choice?

Is there anyone in sydney worth trusting with the install, and drilling a 10mm hole in the dash!???

I assume the dealer will just farm it out to the local auto sparky if I ask them to do it ... then I can't necessarily insist a diode goes in, exact placement etc....


Talk to Frank at ATV Automotive in Five Dock 9712 8001 they are a LR specialist and apart from doing all aspects of maintenance and repairs they also do in house installs of electric brakes, dual battery kits and fitment of all aftermarket accessory's and from what I have seen over the years of going there they do a very tidy job at a reasonable price.

[ken224]

Thank you sniegy (and others) for your efforts and sharing your experience. My question relates to tapping into the bake light line (red) and the need for the diode.

It is clear why you need the diode if you tap into the red wire. What I would like to find out is if anybody has tried to tap into the brake pedal switch (cold end of the +12V, the pin that becomes +12V when the pedal is depressed). This is the way Land Rover connects the controller in the USA version of the car and in the latest AUS models too.

The pedal switch has four pins forming two pairs of contacts: one contact connects to +12V and the other to GND when the pedal is depressed. Tapping in there would avoid the need to run long cables and the use of the diode. Are there any traps? Has anybody tried this? Thanks.

Note: Do NOT depress the brake pedal if you remove the switch or you will break it...

[Meken]

Hi ken - what you have asked is the way the Brisbane LR dealer auto sparky insisted on doing my installation. However instead of tapping direct onto the wire he installed a 4 pin protected relay which used a constant 12 v feed - brake light cold wire drove the coil and output was connected to the downstream cut of the brake light circuit. Red P3 wire was also connected to output. So if you use brake pedal - 12v pulls relay coil which then feeds the constant 12v to the brake light circuit & the P3 red wire. If you use manual on P3 then the P3 sends 12v down red wire which illuminates brake light circuit.
The relay prevents any possibility of current back feed into the brake light switch & into the other circuitry / trailer ecu etc. this is a 2008 model so who knows what has changed in the electrics. ?
As far as my opinion goes it is essential to use an auto sparky who has experience with LR. The 1st bloke I had did a pretty poor job with no idea on the electrics of the car. When I took it to the dealer to troubleshoot an issue, they wouldn't let it leave until they had redone all of the original blokes wiring etc they were so concerned about it.

[Graeme]

It is clear why you need the diode if you tap into the red wire. What I would like to find out is if anybody has tried to tap into the brake pedal switch (cold end of the +12V, the pin that becomes +12V when the pedal is depressed). This is the way Land Rover connects the controller in the USA version of the car and in the latest AUS models too.
Firstly its not clear to me that the diode is required, indeed I didn't fit one initially and can see no reason to do so.

I suspect that connecting as you suggest will be OK simply because the US version of the same year model connects to the same spot. Electrically the signal wire will be weakly tied to ground so that it doesn't float when no input from the switch and the bcu processor should have a high impedence connection to this input with any residual voltage above 5V removed, making the bcu immune to electrical damage from low voltage inputs. Programming-wise I would not expect the US version to apply different logic regarding any conflict with the normally-closed contacts of the switch.

[ken224]

[QUOTE=Graeme;2219846]Firstly its not clear to me that the diode is required, indeed I didn't fit one initially and can see no reason to do so.

The reason for the diode: the red wire to the brake lights is coming from the body control module in the junction box central and nobody really knows what is in there. The aftermarket brake controller can output +12V to this wire when you pull on the manual braking lever. You do not want to force +12V into the output of the body control module. It is possible that the output is relay driven or otherwise protected but I just do not know. It is therefore safe to include a diode (rated some 10A or so) into the circuit to prevent any problems.

The circuit at the pedal is presumably just a switch to the +12V and you can not cause any problems by pushing 12V into it from the controller. LR is using this point. But I would like to learn of other owners' experience before I start digging. This is what forums like this are for and our forum is one of the best :)

[Meken]

My understanding is that there are fet's in the junction box in lieu of relays and apparently you don't want to burn those out ( new board?)

[Graeme]

FETs are indeed used. FETs are a 1-way switch normally with an inbuilt reverse current protection diode. Reverse breakdown voltage is typically 100V. They are often used to switch on a circuit from multiple sources, with each one unaffected by any other.

[Fishoon]

Have recently picked up MY10 Disco TDV6 3.0. Previous owner had setup for towing including;
- Prodigy Brake Controller
- aux Power via wiring and Anderson Plug routed to trailer plug
- 2 x coax leads routed from under brake pedal to rear trailer plug. I suspect these were camera on vehicle rear (viewing tow hitch) and another at caravan rear.

I have tested wiring to ensure all setup ready to tow, and have confirmed all good as per Australian wiring except for reversing lamp via Pin#2 of Black 12-N. No voltage when vehicle is running and reverse selected. Pin#1 of White 12-S provides 13v when reverse selected.

My question is could this be a mod rather than a fault. Looks to me like vehicle was set up for breakaway. Is there any reason reverse via Black 12-N would be removed / replaced? Should I be looking for a fault or a mod?

Cheers

[Graeme]

Pin#1 of White 12-S provides 13v when reverse selected.Factory standard wiring.

[Jimlr]

Quick pic of my TowPro install.
Head unit (dial) has replaced one of the 12v socket in centre console, no holes drilled in the car, easy install with the console out, easy to revert to factory.
Very easy and instinctive to reach in this location, and as recommend by the getabout training guys as I understand.
Haven't found the control box yet (have been told to stop pulling new car apart!), but it's up in behind the nav somewhere.
Impressed with seamless operation of the TowPro itself, once calibrated with trailer attached.

[Mossy]

Afternoon folks. Just bought an MY14 SDV6 and need to fit a brake controller to tow the van. I was going to get it fitted by an auto electrician but after reading these pages (a few times) it looks to be no worse than fitting the controller to my D1. So after considering what I've read here this is what I've decided on, let me know if you see any glaring errors :)
I'm going to use a Redarc Tow Pro, wired up as per instructions here, with the remote mounted on the light switch panel. At the back I'm going to stick with the original black 7 pin socket (I figure its easier swapping plugs on trailers than car wiring). That will cover lights and brakes.
For the ancillaries I thought Id use the ignition activated 12 V supply on the white socket. I've ordered a couple of white plug's, so one can go on the van for this and the other can be set up for battery charging.


Now a couple of questions;
On the black plug, is Pin 2 wired up for reversing lights (Aust), fog lights (UK), or is it a 12v auxillary feed, and if so, is it constant or ignition activated?


Secondly, on the white socket, is the earth (or neg) connected to pin 3 or pin 7, or both?


Finally, our car is a Dec 13 build, can anyone confirm the splice I cut into is in the rear panel accessed from the load space and not under the tail light?


Cheers Mossy








Cheers Mossy

[sniegy]

Hi Mossy,
Refer below for answers.


Afternoon folks. Just bought an MY14 SDV6 and need to fit a brake controller to tow the van. I was going to get it fitted by an auto electrician but after reading these pages (a few times) it looks to be no worse than fitting the controller to my D1. So after considering what I've read here this is what I've decided on, let me know if you see any glaring errors :)
I'm going to use a Redarc Tow Pro, wired up as per instructions here, with the remote mounted on the light switch panel. At the back I'm going to stick with the original black 7 pin socket (I figure its easier swapping plugs on trailers than car wiring). That will cover lights and brakes.
For the ancillaries I thought Id use the ignition activated 12 V supply on the white socket. I've ordered a couple of white plug's, so one can go on the van for this and the other can be set up for battery charging.


Now a couple of questions;
On the black plug, is Pin 2 wired up for reversing lights (Aust), fog lights (UK), or is it a 12v auxillary feed, and if so, is it constant or ignition activated?
**Pin 2 on the Black plug is wired for the UK & Fog lights.
**It can be easily changed tho' from the inside of the l/h/r cargo area.

Secondly, on the white socket, is the earth (or neg) connected to pin 3 or pin 7, or both?
**Both.

Finally, our car is a Dec 13 build, can anyone confirm the splice I cut into is in the rear panel accessed from the load space and not under the tail light?
**Inside the l/h/r cargo area, not below the tail light like mine &/or early builds.

Cheers Mossy

Cheers.

[Mossy]

Thanks Sniegy, will have a go this coming weekend.

[ICON48]

Sniegy
Just taken delivery of MY 2015 SDV6 Discovery and propose to have a Redarc Tow Pro fitted next week by an auto elec with LR Disco experience.
I have already found out that my trailer connection does not need a shunt/tow connect unit now to ensure comparability with the LED's on our caravan - not sure if LR have just addressed this problem with the 2015 models.
So I was wondering if you were aware if anything has changed regarding wiring of an EBC in the 2015 spec Disco, such as plug and play.
I am installing a Traxide aux battery system next week and was planning to run blue wire for EBC at the same time (as suggested and supplied by TIm at Traxide), but after enquiring with a local installer it appears I need to run 2 wires as per your earlier posts.
Would appreciate your comments.

[sniegy]

Hi Icon48,
Congrats on the new purchase. You will love it.
I am not sure where you have received the info on the "shunt/tow" module, as far as i am aware the LED Adaptor is still required. The LED's don't flash anymore (never have with the D4 model) but the easiest way to check is to connect the trailer & stick it in reverse. Do the Reverse beepers continually go off, I bet they do. Therefore are not being picked up. Does the trailer icon flash with the indicators?

Wiring harness has not changed, therefore there is NO plug in the dash for the trailer connection as per US vehicles.

You will have to follow the initial instructions as per post.

HTH Cheers

[Mossy]

I fitted a Tow Pro to our MY14 D4 yesterday. Took it for its first drive today.
To calibrate the Tow Pro you just have to drive the car with the trailer attached, went about 120 metres before the LED stopped flashing uncalibrated and went to calibrated mode.
Our van weighs 1.9t (that's where I drove today, to a weighbridge to check the weight) and I've found position 4 on the dial seems about right.
I must say the difference in towing between our 3.9 V8 D1 and the D4 SDV6 is unbelievable, I had to keep checking the mirrors to make sure the caravan was still attached :D
Amazing what another 300 nm's does.


Cheers Mossy

[PJJ]

G'day Sneigy

I had a TowPro fitted recently to my 2012 D4 & after some initial teething problems, I took my Tvan for a two day run to try everything out. At first all was Ok. I used the TowPro in the auto mode (blue led) on the road & then changed to manual mode (green led)for some steep bush tracks. All went good. When back on the blacktop again, I tried to change the TowPro back to manual. The TowPro indicated a fault code. (Redarc suggested the code could be no stop lamp signal)I had no trailer brakes or trailer brake lights at this stage. On arriving back home I found there was no power at the car socket on pin 6 (stop lamps). I hope you may be able to help me here. I have not been able to find the source of supply for this circuit. The hand book does not seem to list it in "fuses." The brake lights on the D4 are operating Ok. Have you got any suggestions as I have hit a brick wall here. :(

Phil

[sniegy]

Hi Phil,
I would be checking the brake wire pick up feed.
If they have fitted it correctly the pick up "Should" be done in the L/H rear cargo area. If it has been connected at the brake pedal switch you will have issues.
Don't have the wiring diagram in front of me but i think the later models use "Fets" & not fuses.
Also check the Circuit breaker it also "Must" be a 25Amp unit.

HTH Cheers.

[Meken]

Do the other trailer lights work? If not i'd be looking at the trailer ecu (sneaky fuse hidden inside) as if the didn't put a diode or relay on the pickup from the stop light circuit there could have been a reverse current

[Geedublya]

Hi Phil,
I would be checking the brake wire pick up feed.
If they have fitted it correctly the pick up "Should" be done in the L/H rear cargo area. If it has been connected at the brake pedal switch you will have issues.

Why is this so? Looking at the wiring diagram it is straight through from the switch to the lights. I have connected my Tekonsha at the switch and have had no problems.

[sniegy]

The Trailer wiring has its own circuit. It does not run off the same as the brake switch. When the brake is supplied the CJB then sends a signal from the Body control module to the trailer wiring to work.

If you have an issue with the brake switch it can cause false trailer signals.
If you have a short circuit in your Tekonsha you will fry your CJB directly.

Cheers

[PJJ]

Thanks Sniegy, Geedublya & Meken,

All the other Tvan lights are working Ok. Its only the stop lights & brakes not working. All is Ok with the Tvan. I had a mate hook his car up to the Tvan & all lights & brakes worked.

So the problem as I see it is no brake signal in the D4. Sooo.. that means the TowPro cannot operate as it has no brake signal. The problem seems that the brake signal wire that was working is not now & I can't find the point of supply to that wire(red).

Sneigy, it has been wired a bit differently to your way. They have run two wires(a pair in a sheathed cable) from the TowPro along the top of the left chassis rail around to the back of the black socket. The brown wire (pin 5) is cut back approx. 50mm. The red wire( Trailer brake lights pin 6) connects to one of the wires to the TowPro. (brake signal) The other wire from the TowPro (controlled braking)connects to Pin 5 on the Trailer socket. ( I hope you still with me here). CB is 30 amp.

I'm just mystified why the power has disappeared & where it is supplied from!!!!:o

It was all working Ok, then.......?

Phil

[sniegy]

Thanks Sniegy, Geedublya & Meken,

All the other Tvan lights are working Ok. Its only the stop lights & brakes not working. All is Ok with the Tvan. I had a mate hook his car up to the Tvan & all lights & brakes worked.

So the problem as I see it is no brake signal in the D4. Sooo.. that means the TowPro cannot operate as it has no brake signal. The problem seems that the brake signal wire that was working is not now & I can't find the point of supply to that wire(red).

Sneigy, it has been wired a bit differently to your way. They have run two wires(a pair in a sheathed cable) from the TowPro along the top of the left chassis rail around to the back of the black socket. The brown wire (pin 5) is cut back approx. 50mm. The red wire( Trailer brake lights pin 6) connects to one of the wires to the TowPro. (brake signal) The other wire from the TowPro (controlled braking)connects to Pin 5 on the Trailer socket. ( I hope you still with me here). CB is 30 amp.

I'm just mystified why the power has disappeared & where it is supplied from!!!!:o

It was all working Ok, then.......?

Phil
OK Phil,
I will assume it is just a twin core sheathed in black PVC with a red & black wire inside that is run to the rear.
From the Tow Pro Module the red coloured wire is the brake light pick up & that should be "Connected/Soldered" to the wire that goes to pin 6. (Nothing should be cut)
The other wire at the Tow Pro end is a Blue wire & this should be connected to the wire that is in pin 5. The brown wire that has been "cut" back 50mm at the plug end.

Using a Multimeter check that you have a brake light supply in pin 6 of the plug. This will tell you if you have a supply where you require it then..
Check the pick up wire on the brake circuit. Make sure the connection is good & proper.

HTH Cheers

[PJJ]

G'day Sneigy


I spent all yesterday arvo reading this Thread. Up to about Twenty something of the 36 as I write this. It's amazing whats in there. :eek:

Today I have been going through the whole wiring job that the mob in Canberra did for Me. Pulled out the battery & checked the lot & drew a circuit diagram of the wiring.

So here are my findings -

All the wiring is wired correctly. (not a very high standard but)

All the connections are Ok

I have tested for a brake signal (Ignition & foot brake on) & there is none. Interestingly, my analogue multimeter was picking up a very small "pulsing. (mV)

When reading through the thread, I did however see your "important update" about putting a diode in the Red wire from the EBC. This has not been done.

At this stage I'm thinking my problems are from this important omission in the wiring. I hope it hasn't fried something!

I should be getting an appropriate diode later on today, so I can wire that in tomorrow.

I also read on the thread somewhere, (can't remember who posted it) that they had exactly the same problem that I have now. He also said that the dealer needed to replace a relay?

Thanks for the time you're spending on this with me mate. It was really starting to get me down a bit.

The closest L.R. dealer is about 250klms away, so I,m trying to sort this out myself, with help from you guys.

Also, I'm doing a Vic High Country Trip with some friends in the 1st week in December so the pressure is on a bit. I couldn't imagine going in there with no Brakes or Brake lights on the Tvan:o

Got any more suggestions?

Phil

[sniegy]

Hi Again Phil,
Not sure what the relay is but no harm in looking.
Also the diode isn't going to not let the system work. It is only a safety device for the a computer. (CJB).
Just checked the wiring diagrams & fuse 14 in the CJB is a brake switch fuse.
Check this, Installer may have popped the fuse.

Are in Victoria??

[Graeme]

I would do a continuity check between where the brake signal pickup wire is attached and the pin itself in the trailer socket in case the wire has been pulled out. If no continuity then no brake light resistance to trigger a full trailer brake signal, only the observed sense pulse that's testing for a brake light.

[PJJ]

G'day Sneigy

I'm still at it. The fuses are Ok. Yeah, I'm aware of what the diode is doing. (ex sparkie)

I will give the Installer in Canberra a call on Monday about me fitting the diode. I'm not sure of the consequences re: warranty if I start to change things.

To be honest ,I think I am more clued up than them now, considering the problems I've had since this install. Anyway I'll see what they have to say then.

I'm going to try a few things over the Weekend. I'm just going through
trying to elliminate things as I go.

I live in the Snowy Mountains, Talbingo.

Thanks again Pete & Graeme

Phil

[Graeme]

I live in the Snowy Mountains, Talbingo.One of our day escapes for a change of scenery from farming country just west of Junee.

Cooling my heels today whilst there's a ban on harvesting.

[PJJ]

Graeme

Call in if you're in the area mate. Just follow the golf course all the way up & you run into my Driveway. :)

Bring beer. :D

Phil

[PJJ]

G'day guys

Just to keep you updated on my little Trailer brake Saga.

I had the D4 booked in at Lennocks LR (Canberra) today for A 52K service & asked if they would look at the "no trailer brake signal" problem that I've been annoying everyone with. :twisted:

At this stage the rear parking sensors had also taken their bat & ball & gone home.

Also,yesterday the engine warning light had come on :confused:

I could not believe all this was happening to my poor D4. It seemed like it was slowly turning it's toes(wheels) up.

Anyway when I went in to pick the car up, the Service Guy said they had found a hard short circuit on the brake signal pickup wire to the EBC. He went on to say that I would have to go & see the original people who did the Installation to fix it. :(

I got talking to the Technician that worked on my D4 (@ Lennocks) & asked him to cut this shorted wire, which he did.

Presto!!!! The Body Module Computer (BMP) then restored power back to the Brake light signal wire at the Trailer socket. :D

The rear parking sensors decided to play the game again also. :D:D:D

To say that I was one happy chappie was an understatement I can tell you. :p

So the upshot @ the moment is that I have decided not to go back to the original installers. They have had their time at it & failed twice.

I am going to give the job to Lennocks LR as the Technician that worked on my D4 was very clued up about the Hows & Why's.

One interesting point I found out, was that Lennocks LR used to have the mob I went to, to do their ECB installs. The last 3 installs they had done all had problems. Lennocks LR do their own installs now.

I wish I had known this before hand. Would have saved a lot of travelling & Heartache!

So that is where I am at now. A whole lot happier that I'm not up for a $2500 computer.

I'll let you kmow how it went when the rewire is completed.

Thanks again Guys for your help

Phil

[shanegtr]

If they found what the issue was, why didnt they just fix it:thumbsdown:

[PJJ]

shanegtr

Lennock's did not do the original Trailer EBC install. The D4 was primararly in there for a service.

They were trying to find why the Trailer stop light cicuit & reversing sensors were not working.

They did not see it as their job at that stage, to work on the other mob's stuff up. I can understand that.

Hopefully all the wiring problems will be solved later this week:angel:

Phil

[Meken]

They didn't want to void the ebc instal warranty?

And spend his money

[rp.mcdonald]

Hi everyone.
Picking up a D4 at the end of the week for my wife. The D4 will come in handy when I want to tow my boat. That must be a win win situation. Never had a land rover before. I have to wire up a brake controller for the D4 and found this informative forum.
Thanks
RPM

[PJJ]

G'day all,

I hope this is the last of this Post for me!

I had the D4 back to Lennocks last week to rectify the problems I have been having since the original Install.

I decided to cut my loses & not to let the original Installer anywhere near my D4 again.

Lennocks stripped all the wiring out that the original Installer put in & started from scratch.

Aside from all the varying size wires, they also found the brake signal wire to the EBC earthing out on the Turbo!!! :mad:

That is the hard earth that caused the BCM to shut down power to the Trailer Brake wire. (which is the signal wire for the ECB.) All this original wiring was external.
Be warned. :o

All the new wiring is internal (the same as Sniegy posted) & correctly colour coded, so hopefully no more problems.

They also installed a blocking diode in the Trailer Brake (signal) wire as per Sniegys' post.

At home I hooked up the Tvan, recalibrated the Tow Pro & all is good to go! :D:D:D:D:D

So, apart from Forking out twice for this ECB Installation, :( I am now once again a happy chappie:)

Thanks again to all you Guys for your help, especially Sniegy. Thanks mate. My shout if/when we ever meet up.

Phil

[Tombie]

Now go shove the original invoice in the first installers face and demand a refund or a fair trading meeting :)

[LRD414]

Just wondering if Sneigy or anyone else had considered the alternative wiring that Brisbane LR did for Meken he described on page 34 of this thread? That is, tapping in to brake pedal switch via 4 pin protected relay. From what I have understood from this thread, using the pedal switch would have issues but does the relay protect from those problems?

Cheers,
Scott

[Tombie]

Just wondering if Sneigy or anyone else had considered the alternative wiring that Brisbane LR did for Meken he described on page 34 of this thread? That is, tapping in to brake pedal switch via 4 pin protected relay. From what I have understood from this thread, using the pedal switch would have issues but does the relay protect from those problems?



Cheers,

Scott


You need to run a wire to the rear anyway, running twin and thus avoiding an area where, should something go wrong, the CJB is damaged is a more sensible solution.

[RobA]

Fascinating and very helpful discussions and information for this new owner.

Just had our TDV6 fitted with the RedArc TowPro by Tim at Belair Road Auto Electrical. He also fitted an Anderson plug, replacing the white round outlet in the process. Nice and neat all round.

TowPro head unit is neatly located in the LHS of the steering column. Reason is the unit is significantly deeper than the original RedArc unit but easy to access by finger tips as required

RobA

[LRD414]

Quick pic of my TowPro install.
Head unit (dial) has replaced one of the 12v socket in centre console, no holes drilled in the car, easy install with the console out, easy to revert to factory.
Very easy and instinctive to reach in this location, and as recommend by the getabout training guys as I understand.
Haven't found the control box yet (have been told to stop pulling new car apart!), but it's up in behind the nav somewhere.
Impressed with seamless operation of the TowPro itself, once calibrated with trailer attached.

Just wondering which company did this install. It looks very neat and tidy.
Cheers,
Scott

[Dropbear]

RedArc TowPro fitted to console in place of right hand power socket of 2011 SDV6 by MobileTek. European white socket removed and two Anderson plugs fitted for Caravan ESC and power. Very happy with workmanship and easily removed leaving no damage to original parts.

[BigJon]

Just had our TDV6 fitted with the RedArc TowPro by Tim at Belair Road Auto Electrical. He also fitted an Anderson plug, replacing the white round outlet in the process. Nice and neat all round.



You could have come and said g'day to me. My work is about 500 metres up the road from Tim.

[PeterJ]

Hi Dropbear, just around the corner from me as well, I don't want to go off topic but I am interested in your impression of the towpro, is it progressive and sensitive enough? What do you tow, what is the mass, what type of brakes.

Thanks. .........Peter

Sent from my GT-N7100 using AULRO mobile app

[Dropbear]

Hi PeterJ, We pick up the van in Melbourne at the end of the month so I can't comment on the performance of the TowPro until then. The van is 20'3" off road with tandem axle and control rider suspension, 16" wheels and 12" off road brakes. Not light, atm of 3140.


Cheers...

[RobA]

Hi PeterJ, We pick up the van in Melbourne at the end of the month so I can't comment on the performance of the TowPro until then. The van is 20'3" off road with tandem axle and control rider suspension, 16" wheels and 12" off road brakes. Not light, atm of 3140.


Cheers...

Can only comment on the progressive feel of the TowPro when towing the Ulti at around 1000kg and that is very progressive. With the D4 we have set the number at 3.5 to let the car to most of the braking which is not how many approach it but it is easier on the caravan/camper brakes and a lot more efficient with the big discs doing the majority of the work.I can say that if you set it at 6 we get lock up almost it certainly pulls down very hard and that is on light braking in the car. Did a demo with a 3000kg caravan and it felt pretty much the same as the Ulti in a braking sense but boy is that a lot of weight behind you

Regards

Rob

[PeterJ]

Hi Dropbear, thanks for that I will be interested in your impression after you have picked up the van. It is similar to mine and the D4 eats it, it is such a pleasure to be able to relax and roll away the km.......enjoy.
Peter

Sent from my GT-N7100 using AULRO mobile app

[PeterJ]

Did a demo with a 3000kg caravan and it felt pretty much the same as the Ulti in a braking sense but boy is that a lot of weight behind you

Regards

Rob

Hi Rob, yes 30000kg + is my normal situation hence why I am trying to get a better understanding of how the various units work. I have a Tekonsha P2 at the moment and not really happy with how it is all working as a system, but is it the controller, the van, the settings or the driver. A bit of stuff to sort out, thanks for the input.
Peter

Sent from my GT-N7100 using AULRO mobile app

[Dropbear]

Hi Peter, 30000k ....... I hope that is a keying error, otherwise you will need a anchor to two.
Looking forward to first trip with the new van and yes I expect the SDV6 will handle the van with ease. Currently tow a 6m StabiCraft boat and sometimes I forget that it's behind.

[wbowner]

G'day guys

Just to keep you updated on my little Trailer brake Saga.

I had the D4 booked in at Lennocks LR (Canberra) today for A 52K service & asked if they would look at the "no trailer brake signal" problem that I've been annoying everyone with. :twisted:

At this stage the rear parking sensors had also taken their bat & ball & gone home.

Also,yesterday the engine warning light had come on :confused:

I could not believe all this was happening to my poor D4. It seemed like it was slowly turning it's toes(wheels) up.

Anyway when I went in to pick the car up, the Service Guy said they had found a hard short circuit on the brake signal pickup wire to the EBC. He went on to say that I would have to go & see the original people who did the Installation to fix it. :(

I got talking to the Technician that worked on my D4 (@ Lennocks) & asked him to cut this shorted wire, which he did.

Presto!!!! The Body Module Computer (BMP) then restored power back to the Brake light signal wire at the Trailer socket. :D

The rear parking sensors decided to play the game again also. :D:D:D

To say that I was one happy chappie was an understatement I can tell you. :p

So the upshot @ the moment is that I have decided not to go back to the original installers. They have had their time at it & failed twice.

I am going to give the job to Lennocks LR as the Technician that worked on my D4 was very clued up about the Hows & Why's.

One interesting point I found out, was that Lennocks LR used to have the mob I went to, to do their ECB installs. The last 3 installs they had done all had problems. Lennocks LR do their own installs now.

I wish I had known this before hand. Would have saved a lot of travelling & Heartache!

So that is where I am at now. A whole lot happier that I'm not up for a $2500 computer.

I'll let you kmow how it went when the rewire is completed.

Thanks again Guys for your help

Phil
Phil
Any chance of letting me know who I should avoid in Canberra

Richard

[Billy Bignutz]

I have just followed Sneigy's wiring recommendations and all went well until behind the rear tail light. I found that the pin 5 brown wire was not connected to any other wire at all like in the photograph. I ended up removing the sockets from where they are attached deep behind the bumper bar (in order to get enough slack) and unwound the tape and found no junctions. The brown wire was single all the way back through the panel and into the loom to where it went out of site heading towards the wheel arch inside the rear of the car. As I had already unwrapped the wiring and had already extended the red and blue wires into the tail light area I still wired them in at that point and just cut and insulated the brown wire that went back into the vehicle. If all new vehicles have this wiring you could do the junctions in the back pocket area rather than behind the tail light. FYI I have a MY14 HSE D4 (DOM 05/2014)


Anyone else found these wiring changes?


Also I noticed that when wiring in the battery through the spare grommet in the firewall that inside the vehicle you need to be careful of any slack in the wire behind the dash board as it may end up wrapped around the steering universal joint if left fly loose. I hooked the black battery wire behind another wiring loom near the centre console then extended it to where I mounted my controller to the right of the steering wheel on the lower panel.

[LandyAndy]

I have just followed Sneigy's wiring recommendations and all went well until behind the rear tail light. I found that the pin 5 brown wire was not connected to any other wire at all like in the photograph. I ended up removing the sockets from where they are attached deep behind the bumper bar (in order to get enough slack) and unwound the tape and found no junctions. The brown wire was single all the way back through the panel and into the loom to where it went out of site heading towards the wheel arch inside the rear of the car. As I had already unwrapped the wiring and had already extended the red and blue wires into the tail light area I still wired them in at that point and just cut and insulated the brown wire that went back into the vehicle. If all new vehicles have this wiring you could do the junctions in the back pocket area rather than behind the tail light. FYI I have a MY14 HSE D4 (DOM 05/2014)


Anyone else found these wiring changes?


Also I noticed that when wiring in the battery through the spare grommet in the firewall that inside the vehicle you need to be careful of any slack in the wire behind the dash board as it may end up wrapped around the steering universal joint if left fly loose. I hooked the black battery wire behind another wiring loom near the centre console then extended it to where I mounted my controller to the right of the steering wheel on the lower panel.

There is info on the MY14 shift of wiring in the thread.I fitted mine over the Xmas break.
Andrew

[Billy Bignutz]

Apologies. There are so many pages to read and my search didn't turn up anything.
Cheers

[osborneparkautospark]

Sorry about the picture quality. The first photo is how we fit our trailer plugs and Anderson plugs now, with a custom made laser cut 3mm stainless steel bracket. The bracket is universal, it can be used on either the 12 pin trailer plug or the 50 amp Anderson plug cover, it uses the existing holes and screws. Only one hole needs to be drilled in the rear for the Anderson plug bracket. We painted these ones to blend in to the back of the vehicle. The plugs are positioned so that all the clips on the plugs operate correctly and the rear cover fits back on when not in use.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/802.jpg

This second photo is of how we used to do them. It was from these fitments I was able to come up with the dimensions for a universal bracket to accept both the 12 pin plug and the Anderson plug.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/803.jpg

[rman4175]

Hi Sniegy
Thanks for your posts and photos but exactly where (LHS 1/4 panel) is the wiring found? I gather it is not behind the flap where the tow hitch is stored but rather under the LHS corner near the rear muffer? If yes, then how do you get the wiring harness down low enough to access - do you just pull it off the clips that attach it to the car?
Also is a diode needed on a D4 MY15?
thanks
Rob

[sniegy]

Hi Rob,
The loom is where the tow hitch is stored.
If you look towards the top rear you will see 2 plugs. That is where the wiring gets attached too.
You will see a barcode & tape wrapping the harness & the connector, this is where the wire goes from black to brown/black & where it needs to be cut as per the instructions.
A diode is required again as instructed in the write up.
Cheers

[RoverLander]

Hi All,


Thanks for these excellent instructions.


Two questions:
1) I want to install a Redarc TowPro and am thinking of installing the control module in the Rear Left Compartment. This mainly so most of the wiring is kept there and it is not cluttering the underdash area. I can run 5m of RJ45 control wire to the dash control knob. Any thoughts on this approach?


2) I get why we need the Diode on the Brake Light input. What I don't understand is how the car and caravan brake lights are then activated when the brake controller is used. The brake controller light output would be blocked by the diode. I am basing this on the wiring diagram (heading is 17091 - Exterior Lighting) which shows the diode between the EBC and the trailer pickup.


Thanks for any thoughts.
Peter

[LRD414]

Peter,

As I understand it, the trailer/van lights are activated by the car as per normal via pin 6 (red). The brake controller is not activating the trailer/van lights, just its brakes via pin 5 (brown). The brake light connection to the brake controller is only an input.

I seem to recall someone else having the module fitted LHR compartment, so long as the RJ45 is not too long as you say.

Cheers,
Scott

[BigJon]

1) I want to install a Redarc TowPro and am thinking of installing the control module in the Rear Left Compartment. This mainly so most of the wiring is kept there and it is not cluttering the underdash area. I can run 5m of RJ45 control wire to the dash control knob. Any thoughts on this approach?




I did essentially this with my Vogue. No issues at all.

[rar110]

I did essentially this with my Vogue. No issues at all.

Jon did you mount the module in the rear driver side or passenger side of the RRV?

[BSM]

Hi All,


Thanks for these excellent instructions.


Two questions:
1) I want to install a Redarc TowPro and am thinking of installing the control module in the Rear Left Compartment. This mainly so most of the wiring is kept there and it is not cluttering the underdash area. I can run 5m of RJ45 control wire to the dash control knob. Any thoughts on this approach?


2) I get why we need the Diode on the Brake Light input. What I don't understand is how the car and caravan brake lights are then activated when the brake controller is used. The brake controller light output would be blocked by the diode. I am basing this on the wiring diagram (heading is 17091 - Exterior Lighting) which shows the diode between the EBC and the trailer pickup.


Thanks for any thoughts.
Peter

1. I just installed a Redarc tow-pro(in my D3) You'll see in the instruction that you can run up to 5m of RJ45, but I recon you'll struggle to be able to feed the cable connector from the rear to the front, as the cable needs to squeeze through some quite constricted spaces, so you'll probably need to attach the RJ45 connector to the cable after threading the cable.

I don't know why you'd want the unit at the rear though. I'd be mounting the unit under the console and powering it via the the black and white wires direct from the battery/earth through the firewall, with the circuit breaker mounted in the engine bay. Then you just run the red and blue wires to the rear.

2. The red wire is normally an input signal to the EBC. And the diode protects the modules. When driving normally you brake with your foot, the lights on the car and trailer are illuminated as you'd expect. That brake light current flows through the diode to the ECB and then the ECB applies the trailer brakes.

However, depending on where you've placed the diode in the circuit, when you press the RedArc's manual override button. It applies the trailer brakes as you'd expect, but it also sends a reverse current from the ECB to the car brake lights and illuminates them too. The diode, though must stop this current flowing in the reverse direction from flowing to the car's controller module.

You'll notice in the tow-pro instructions 2.4 Testing your Install it says that you test it by pressing the manual overide button. There are two things you should see. A. The vehicle brake lights should illuminate, But they will only illuminate for you if your diode is located correctly in the circuit. B. It also says that the trailer brake light output should illuminate the test lamp. That is wrong. They've made a mistake with the manual. It should say to connect the test lamp to the trailer brake output. (Ie. Wire the test lamp to pin 5 and not pin 6 as the instruction imply). Turn the dial up a bit when you do this because a setting of zero will send zero current through the test lamp, and nothing will show.

The earlier description by Sniegy for diode location was updated in this short post. (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/51521-electric-trailer-brake-wired-photo-2.html#post935922) . That's where you want the diode.

[ScottD4]

You'll notice in the tow-pro instructions 2.4 Testing your Install it says that you test it by pressing the manual overide button. There are two things you should see. A. The vehicle brake lights should illuminate, But they will only illuminate for you if your diode is located correctly in the circuit. B. It also says that the trailer brake light output should illuminate the test lamp. That is wrong. They've made a mistake with the manual. It should say to connect the test lamp to the trailer brake output. (Ie. Wire the test lamp to pin 5 and not pin 6 as the instruction imply). Turn the dial up a bit when you do this because a setting of zero will send zero current through the test lamp, and nothing will show.

The earlier description by Sniegy for diode location was updated in this short post. (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/51521-electric-trailer-brake-wired-photo-2.html#post935922) . That's where you want the diode.

Am I reading it correctly that by pushing the towpro dash knob the brake lights on the car should illuminate, even with no trailer attached?

[BSM]

Am I reading it correctly that by pushing the towpro dash knob the brake lights on the car should illuminate, even with no trailer attached?

Yes. Mine does.

[LRD414]

I am a bit confused. I can understand the ECB reverse current applying the trailer lights because it is the trailer plug wire that is spliced in to with the red wire. But how is the vehicle brake light applied as well? I was going off the wiring diagram that someone posted to this thread a while back and I didn't appreciate there would be a connection to the vehicle brake light. Does the red wire we splice in to go to both the trailer plug and vehicle brake light?

I have put my diode in the wrong place (I missed the updated location in the other thread), so I want to get it right the 2nd time.

Cheers,
Scott


Yes. Mine does.


Am I reading it correctly that by pushing the towpro dash knob the brake lights on the car should illuminate, even with no trailer attached?


However, depending on where you've placed the diode in the circuit, when you press the RedArc's manual override button. It applies the trailer brakes as you'd expect, but it also sends a reverse current from the ECB to the car brake lights and illuminates them too. The diode, though must stop this current flowing in the reverse direction from flowing to the car's controller module. The earlier description by Sniegy for diode location was updated in this short post. (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/51521-electric-trailer-brake-wired-photo-2.html#post935922) . That's where you want the diode.

[ScottD4]

Yes. Mine does.

Hmmm. Interesting. My wife and I just ran some tests. Mine does:

* Not illuminate the brake lights when pushing the knob (despite the knob glowing blue as per the book)
* Does not properly illuminate a test lamp when pushing the knob. If anything, the test lamp is flashing dimly continuously until the knob is pushed, then nothing happens.

We haven't towed a trailer with this yet, so I can't confirm it's operation with one attached. But I dare say something is a-miss.

[BSM]

Chaps, I have just realised that the D4 is a very different wiring setup than the D3. My fitting was in a D3. I just reviewed Sneigys instructions at the start of this thread and he says you don't need a diode for his D4 wiring setup. Clearly it's a different wiring arangement recommended here than for the d3. Sorry for giving you confusing advice.

All I can say is that where I have the tow pro connection in my D3 it does work as I have described.

[LRD414]

Sniegy updated his D4 instruction to include the diode (as instructed by LR), so I believe the principal of the diode position is the same in both D3 and D4. That is, as per this sketch I've copied from the D3 thread. So as I see it, it is just the wire colour that's changed for the D4; red instead of green/purple.

But I still don't understand how the manual override can light the vehicle brake light as well as the trailer brake light using this wiring.:confused:

Regards,
Scott

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/12/445.jpg

[ScottD4]

Sniegy updated his D4 instruction to include the diode (as instructed by LR), so I believe the principal of the diode position is the same in both D3 and D4. That is, as per this sketch I've copied from the D3 thread. So as I see it, it is just the wire colour that's changed for the D4; red instead of green/purple.

But I still don't understand how the manual override can light the vehicle brake light as well as the trailer brake light using this wiring.:confused:

Regards,
Scott

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/12/445.jpg


This whole EBC thing drives me nuts. First time we use the Towpro we will have 2.6T behind us, not knowing whether it's going to work properly or not.

Anyway Scott, I just ran another test and found that my test light illuminated on Pin 6 when pushing the knob on dash. Which makes sense, manual override will illuminate the trailer brake lights. But again like you I don't understand how it would illuminate the vehicle lights. Moreover, mine doesn't.

[RoverLander]

OK I think I now understand for a D4.


The diode is fitted on the red wire between the CJB and where the Brake Light Input wire joins the Red Wire.


Then if the manual override is used on the brake controller the Brake Control will send power down through the red wire to the trailer lights. The car wont see this power due to the Diode blocking it and therefore the car brake lights will not illuminate.


There seems to be no way to make the car brake lights illuminate when using the Brake Controller override.


Anyone have any improvement on this theory? Is it legal for the car brake lights not to come on?


Peter

[ScottD4]

OK I think I now understand for a D4.


The diode is fitted on the red wire between the CJB and where the Brake Light Input wire joins the Red Wire.


Then if the manual override is used on the brake controller the Brake Control will send power down through the red wire to the trailer brakes. The car wont see this power due to the Diode blocking it and therefore the car brake lights will not illuminate.


There seems to be no way to make the car brake lights illuminate when using the Brake Controller override.


Anyone have any improvement on this theory? Is it legal for the car brake lights not to come on?


Peter

Whilst I can't confirm this without pulling my vehicle into 1000 pieces, I am fairly convinced my auto elec didn't put in a diode. And my vehicle lights don't illuminate on push of knob.

And to be frank, how many auto electricians that fit these would be familiar with the Landrover technicalities around fitting the diode? I would hedge a bet that the vast majority of tow pros fitted to Disco's don't have a diode fitted.

Happy for someone to prove me wrong on that though.

[LRD414]

OK I think I now understand for a D4.

The diode is fitted on the red wire between the CJB and where the Brake Light Input wire joins the Red Wire.

Then if the manual override is used on the brake controller the Brake Control will send power down through the red wire to the trailer brakes. The car won't see this power due to the Diode blocking it and therefore the car brake lights will not illuminate.

There seems to be no way to make the car brake lights illuminate when using the Brake Controller override.

Anyone have any improvement on this theory? Is it legal for the car brake lights not to come on?


Peter, I think it's slightly different. The red wire powers the trailer lights when on manual override and is the brake signal input when in automatic mode.

It's the blue variable voltage wire to pin 5 that powers the trailer brakes.

Regarding legality, I don't know. But to my way of thinking the manual override is trailer functionality so should illuminate the trailer lights. It is not controlling the vehicle brakes. Therefore vehicle lights should be not be mandatory. I equate vehicle tail lights to the vehicle foot brake. Of course, this is just my opinion, I'm not sure on legality.

Regards,
Scott

[LandyAndy]

The diode is there for 1 purpose,IF there is a malfunction in the electric brake solenoids 12V power cannot flow backwards to the CJB which could cause a catastrophic failure of the CJB.
With the Tow Pro when you are pressing the manual button to get brake lights is the blue "breathing" led pulsing???? IF SO,read the manual,this means the Tow Pro is in sleep mode as there is no trailer connected.
Connect a trailer and see if you get manual break lights.You will also note the Tow Pro does not glow red like a normal EBC without a trailer connected.
Im yet to connect an electric braked trailer up to mine to calibrate,can somebody with a trailer easy to connect up and confirm for these people,plus the one that contacted me via PM that the brake lights will operate manually when connected,plus the red LED on the knob lights with brake application.
I was concerned when I wired mine,when I read the book of words again I wasnt too bothered,waiting to connect up and calibrate;);););).
Thanks
Andrew

[ScottD4]

The diode is there for 1 purpose,IF there is a malfunction in the electric brake solenoids 12V power cannot flow backwards to the CJB which could cause a catastrophic failure of the CJB.
With the Tow Pro when you are pressing the manual button to get brake lights is the blue "breathing" led pulsing???? IF SO,read the manual,this means the Tow Pro is in sleep mode as there is no trailer connected.
Connect a trailer and see if you get manual break lights.You will also note the Tow Pro does not glow red like a normal EBC without a trailer connected.
Im yet to connect an electric braked trailer up to mine to calibrate,can somebody with a trailer easy to connect up and confirm for these people,plus the one that contacted me via PM that the brake lights will operate manually when connected,plus the red LED on the knob lights with brake application.
I was concerned when I wired mine,when I read the book of words again I wasnt too bothered,waiting to connect up and calibrate;);););).
Thanks
Andrew

Can't help you, I don't own a trailer.

Mine is also yet to be calibrated. All testing I've done so far is in 'sleep' mode.

[LandyAndy]

My D4 is out of the shed for cleaning,when I put it away tommorow I will plug it into the camper trailer to see if the lights do work manually when connected,I expect they will.Trailer is towable,BUT as its an on going project its got all sorts of junk piled up on it so too hard to get it out for calibration.
Sniegys wiring mod is to delete the european system,before and after cutting my wires testing at the trailer plug with a multimeter confirmed the modification worked.
Andrew

[RoverLander]

Peter, I think it's slightly different. The red wire powers the trailer lights when on manual override and is the brake signal input when in automatic mode.

It's the blue variable voltage wire to pin 5 that powers the trailer brakes.

Regarding legality, I don't know. But to my way of thinking the manual override is trailer functionality so should illuminate the trailer lights. It is not controlling the vehicle brakes. Therefore vehicle lights should be not be mandatory. I equate vehicle tail lights to the vehicle foot brake. Of course, this is just my opinion, I'm not sure on legality.

Regards,
Scott

Hi Scott, you are right... That part of my post should have said trailer lights (not brakes). I will edit it. So we hree the car brake lights wont come on when the manual override on the EBC is used.

Peter

[BigJon]

Jon did you mount the module in the rear driver side or passenger side of the RRV?

Driver's side. I have a Traxide dual battery system in there as well. I figured that seeing as I had power and all the trailer wiring on that side, it makes sense to put the brain box there. I mounted it off the original mounts for the fuel door latch mechanism.

[LandyAndy]

Hi Scott, you are right... That part of my post should have said trailer lights (not brakes). I will edit it. So we hree the car brake lights wont come on when the manual override on the EBC is used.

Peter

I belive they will and SHOULD if a trailer is conneceted,as the unit is in sleep mode with no trailer connected I wouldnt expect any lights.
I will plug my camper trailer in when the D4 is back in the shed to see if manual push gives brake lights.
Andrew

[outasight]

Hi all,

Well I just went out and hooked up my brand new MY15 D4 SE, with the Redarc TowPro fitted by Sniegy's guys to my caravan in the drive & I got NO brake lights when pressing the manual override! Of course they worked when pressing the brake peddle.

I am surprised.

Regards,

Les.

[RoverLander]

Hi all,

Well I just went out and hooked up my brand new MY15 D4 SE, with the Redarc TowPro fitted by Sniegy's guys to my caravan in the drive & I got NO brake lights when pressing the manual override! Of course they worked when pressing the brake peddle.

I am surprised.

Regards,

Les.

Les,

I suspect that means that the diode needs to be moved. A simple fix. The trailer lights will then come on when the EBC is operated manually. The car brake lights wont.

Peter

[ScottD4]

Hi all,

Well I just went out and hooked up my brand new MY15 D4 SE, with the Redarc TowPro fitted by Sniegy's guys to my caravan in the drive & I got NO brake lights when pressing the manual override! Of course they worked when pressing the brake peddle.

I am surprised.

Regards,

Les.

Les,

I would be getting that fixed ASAP. If you manually operate the trailer's brakes you want the lights to work!

I don't believe I have a diode fitted to my vehicle, and I get an output at Pin 6 on the plug (brake lights) for the trailer when the override button is pushed.
Scott.

[LandyAndy]

I just tried mine when I put the D4 back in the shed.As per Les,I get no brake lights on the vehicle with manual operation,cant say for the trailer as how its parked you cant see the lights and had nobody here to look.
The knob has the green LED with the trailer connected and turns red with foot or manual operation.
Andrew

[LandyAndy]

Les,

I suspect that means that the diode needs to be moved. A simple fix. The trailer lights will then come on when the EBC is operated manually. The car brake lights wont.

Peter

I fitted my diode at the Red Arc,not in the rear loom.Next time I move the D4 when somebody is around I will check if the trailer has lights with manual operation.
Andrew

[aspiremr]

Hi All,

Brand new to the forum so hope I am typing this in the correct place, apologies if not. Just collected a 2010 D4 3.0, and waiting on delivery of new van in a few weeks.

I'm technically inept, so would never attempt an install of a brake controller myself, the damage I could cause would cost more to repair than the savings over getting it done by someone with skills.

Am wondering if anyone has any recommendations for installation of a redarc towpro controller in Perth, preferrably northern suburbs.

Thanks

[RoverLander]

Hi all,

I rang the RMS technical people here in NSW to check on the need for trailer and vehicle brake lights to come on when using the manual override on the electronic brake controller.

The law is that NEITHER need to come on when you use the manual override. The law is when the service brake (another name for the foot brake) is used the brake lights must come on. But no need when the manual override is used.

Im pretty happy about that as i cant see any way that you could wire up a brake controller so that the car brake lights on a D4 would come on when the manual EBC is used.

In any case i will move the location of the diode so that the trailer brake lights will come on when the manual override is used.

Peter

[LandyAndy]

Hi All,

Brand new to the forum so hope I am typing this in the correct place, apologies if not. Just collected a 2010 D4 3.0, and waiting on delivery of new van in a few weeks.

I'm technically inept, so would never attempt an install of a brake controller myself, the damage I could cause would cost more to repair than the savings over getting it done by someone with skills.

Am wondering if anyone has any recommendations for installation of a redarc towpro controller in Perth, preferrably northern suburbs.

Thanks

Welcome Aboard.
The job isnt hard,but you must be pretty good with wiring to take it on.Infact the hardest part of the job is removing and re-fitting trim panels.I found that more daunting in a brand new vehicle.
As for a Perth auto sparky,I would post in the WA AULROians area,see if some of the Perth blokes can suggest where to go.
Goodluck.
Andrew

[GP1200]

Hi Aspiremr,

Did you purchase from Southerns?
They quoted me a while ago, I think it was close to a $900 to $1000, supply and fit, I did get a quote from the Landy Independant in Wangara for around $650,
I ended up not doing it as it wasn't required, but looks like we are buying a camper and will have to get it done. After reading all the pages of stories on the brake controllers, I would rather pay someone who knows what they are doing!

Saying that, I will most lightly sell the car near the end of 2015 and purchase another, is there a plug and play version that you can use, no doubt the caravan hire places might use something that they can fit & remove ?

Also, can I suggest every LRA SURVEY that D4 owners do, mention in the coments that they should consider a factory option of the brake controller and second battery,

I find it strange that LRA talk about what a wonderful tow car in one sentence but give you no direction or options with a brake controller ( or second battery )
Keep bringing it up on the surveys and you never know..

Jack

[MTV]

Just been introduced to aulro forum and very impressed with all the great info available, as a newby to forums I'm not to sure how this all works but I'll give ago, I'm currently in the middle of installing a DBS from Traxide and all is going well, also installing a Redarc Tow Pro but having trouble with the correct wiring, I have run a blue wire to the rear at the same time I ran the wiring for Anderson plug I'm just a little unsure wear the red wire should be connected to Oh I guess I should mention the vehicle is a 2010 D4 HSE TDV6 I have been looking and reading the forum but still a little unsure I was wondering if there is place in the loom close to brake pedal wear you join the red wire??? Any help would be much appreciated MTV

[LandyAndy]

Just been introduced to aulro forum and very impressed with all the great info available, as a newby to forums I'm not to sure how this all works but I'll give ago, I'm currently in the middle of installing a DBS from Traxide and all is going well, also installing a Redarc Tow Pro but having trouble with the correct wiring, I have run a blue wire to the rear at the same time I ran the wiring for Anderson plug I'm just a little unsure wear the red wire should be connected to Oh I guess I should mention the vehicle is a 2010 D4 HSE TDV6 I have been looking and reading the forum but still a little unsure I was wondering if there is place in the loom close to brake pedal wear you join the red wire??? Any help would be much appreciated MTV

Welcome Aboard.
Definately no connections at the pedals,read this thread right thru,I did several times.The go is to run a twin wire with the DBS system for the 2 EBC wires.Make sure you fit the diode,its important to protect the vehicles electronics in case of a fault,the EBC doesnt need it.
You will find the mob here pretty helpful when you need info,all you need to do is ask.
ENJOY
Andrew

[ScottD4]

You know whilst travelling back from Lismore the other day Andy I got seriously thinking about this diode issue.

So let's say the brake controller does in fact fail and cause an issue with the vehicle electronics because there is no diode fitted.

What happens next? I imagine the vehicle comes to an abrupt halt, with no electrics. This could mean a catastrophe. If the engine is not running, you are going to struggle to pull up the car (no vacuum, less braking power).

You are also going to be towing something, quite possibly in the 3.5t range (because that's their legal towing capacity, so let's work with that).

Now you have no electrics, so guess what, no electric brakes either.

So now you're flying down a highway, at 100km/h with no vehicle brakes, or caravan brakes.

I seriously think if this diode was as necessary as some believe than Land Rover would have issued a complete vehicle recall to fit these retrospectively. Why haven't they issued any literature to owners? Why haven't they publicly addressed the issue?

Given they pride themselves on this being a strong tow vehicle, it's likely a good percentage of their owners will use the vehicle to tow, so therefore it surely is a high risk exercise.

If I didn't get on AULRO, I wouldn't have had any idea about the diode, and I seriously suspect many auto-electricians wouldn't know either.

[LandyAndy]

im only going on what Sniegy posted.He is a mechanic for a Land Rover Dealership.Early on he mentioned that the diode wasnt needed on the D4.He later posted that he had a service buletin from Land Rover saying that a diode must me fitted.
Land Rover wont want to know about the EBCs,its an aftermarket accessory even if a dealer fits it;););););)
Andrew

[SBD4]

Would be good if the AUS vehicles were built with the same EBC plug and play loom that the North American market gets.

[LandyAndy]

For those woried about the diode,do you understand what it actually does????
It is no different than the turnstile into Coles you can only go in not out.Its fitted in the wire in the direction the current flows.Current can only flow thru the diode in one direction.
What it prevents is feedback current from a failed brake solenoid/wiring issue flowing backwards thru the system.Its this current you are potentialy saving your ECU from getting fried by.
Andrew

[Beemera5]

Sniegy would it be possible to publish the service bulletin number or identifying description so that I can tell my local dealer. I have asked him to check out what is necessary for his customers when they have EBCs fitted so that everybody gets the same story. So far I am getting the "I'll look into it" line :confused: and little else. If I could identify the article for him it would make it much simpler and then I can get the autoelec that they recommend to fix my installation.
Thanks

[josh.huber]

You know whilst travelling back from Lismore the other day Andy I got seriously thinking about this diode issue.

So let's say the brake controller does in fact fail and cause an issue with the vehicle electronics because there is no diode fitted.

What happens next? I imagine the vehicle comes to an abrupt halt, with no electrics. This could mean a catastrophe. If the engine is not running, you are going to struggle to pull up the car (no vacuum, less braking power).

You are also going to be towing something, quite possibly in the 3.5t range (because that's their legal towing capacity, so let's work with that).

Now you have no electrics, so guess what, no electric brakes either.

So now you're flying down a highway, at 100km/h with no vehicle brakes, or caravan brakes.

I seriously think if this diode was as necessary as some believe than Land Rover would have issued a complete vehicle recall to fit these retrospectively. Why haven't they issued any literature to owners? Why haven't they publicly addressed the issue?

Given they pride themselves on this being a strong tow vehicle, it's likely a good percentage of their owners will use the vehicle to tow, so therefore it surely is a high risk exercise.

If I didn't get on AULRO, I wouldn't have had any idea about the diode, and I seriously suspect many auto-electricians wouldn't know either.

Man calm down.

First off your car runs can bus which means it's up there with technology.

Second the computers have self diagnosis capacity and cross diagnosis capacity.
Third if a short circuit would Happen the computer would log a fault and depending how it's routed through the circuit turn off the circuit or blow the fuse to that circuit .
It would never shut down the engine. If the car shutoff the engine, on engine shutdown your Vac system would stop producing more vacuum.
However adr in Australia means that you will have three full pedal applications before your run out of Vac assistance. you would probably be looking for power steering first as it has no backup.

Volvo commercial vehicles also use diodes everywhere and are renowned for being space age in regards to trucks. The diodes stop back currents from the relays. The relays are computer controlled and therefore when the computer turns off the relay the relay trys to fire a back current at it. Brake controllers are basically relays with a variable output.

Why havnt they issued a recall? They didn't fit it. we did so it's not there issue. Does it need to be there. Yes. all good auto sparkies know that when doing work on systems like this protection must be used. Hence the diode.

it's always five o clock somewhere

[DiscoMick]

Personally, I didn't hesitate to get an auto sparky to fit the trailer brakes to my Defender. I'm not taking any risks with something involving safety.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[BigJon]

Personally, I didn't hesitate to get an auto sparky to fit the trailer brakes to my Defender. I'm not taking any risks with something involving safety.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

Unfortunately using an "expert" can sometimes be the worst thing to do. Some of them refuse to listen to good advice / instruction, believing that their years of experience with old vehicles is all they need to know.

[clint]

New to forum. Just installed a Redarc tow pro by an autoelectrician in Wollongong. The Redarc doesn't seem to be recognising the trailer I have attached via a 7pin flat to 7 pin round adaptor.
That is the blue led light on the Redarc stays in sleep mode, and doesn't allow me to change modes.

The adaptor has test lights which are very handy. Noticed that pin 2 light blinks rapidly. All lights are working on the trailer. Appears the Redarc is not speaking to the trailer?

Sorry read most of the posts and justing getting more confused.
Ps. I have a LR d4 MY 12 model.

[LRD414]

the blue led light on the Redarc stays in sleep mode, and doesn't allow me to change modes.

Clint, is the blue led light solid or flashing blue/green? If it's a solid blue light it means the unit is calibrated and should be ok. If all is ok, when you press the vehicle brakes the light will change colour to either purple or red depending on how hard you're braking. Does it change colour at all?

If it's slow flashing blue when you press the button, you're right, it's not recognizing a trailer is attached.

Perhaps try doing a complete calibration cycle as per the Redarc instruction manual. If that doesn't work, probably back to the installer.

Cheers,
Scott

[clint]

It's a solid blue. Can't seem to change to user mode. Tried to reset the recalibration. That didn't work either. From what I can tell. The Redarc button can't do anything really ...that is access the programming functions.. Until it recognises that the trailer is attached.

Was worried as previously I had problems when connecting a trailer with electric brakes, as the brakes locked up, the guy said it was because I had a live wire in the trailer socket on the LRD4 on pin 5?

Thought by installing the Redarc this would not happen, as the pin 5 would be now variably control the signal from Redarc.

Would you know anything about multimeter testing ? Thought I might try testing the sockets.

[BobD]

I just installed one in mine over the weekend. I spent hours trying to work out how to do it and testing connections etc and finally found that the previous owner had already correctly wired it up and cut the pin 5 wire. All I had to do was connect to the correct wires that were taped up under the dash!


As you say, nothing will happen until a trailer is attached, except the solid blue light which fades out after a few seconds. I put a single LED test probe on mine and pin 5 was flashing the LED but not enough resistance to tell it there was something on the circuit. When I plugged it into a caravan all was fine.


If the sparky didn't do exactly what Sniegy said in this post it won't work. You must cut the wire behind the tail light after removing the tail light assembly. Cutting the brown wire inside the car behind the access door is no good, which may be what the sparky did.

[DiscoMick]

Unfortunately using an "expert" can sometimes be the worst thing to do. Some of them refuse to listen to good advice / instruction, believing that their years of experience with old vehicles is all they need to know.

True, but my Defender isn't complicated, certainly not compared with a D4.

[LRD414]

The way I interpreted Sniegy's posts is that the brown wire to pin 5 had to be cut behind the LHR light assembly in older models but the loom changed location and the wire can now be cut in the LHR storage compartment. I recall this as an update from Sniegy somewhere in the thread .... I had a search; eg 28Feb14 page 25 and 02Nov14 page 35. Having said that, the auto-elec who did my MY14 chose to do the cut (and red wire brake light splice) behind the LHR light assembly anyway.

Either way, the critical thing is that the wire is cut, otherwise the variable voltage signal to trailer via pin 5 is not happening as required. This could be the source of your issue.

But regarding the blue LED, as Bob said, normal operation without trailer is a blue light which fades out after a few seconds if you press the button. I think Redarc call this fade "breathing".

However, if you have a continuous solid blue LED with trailer connected and no fade out, that would suggest a different problem because solid blue continuous equates to calibrated and recognition of trailer attached. Alternatively, if you have solid blue continuous without trailer attached, that is not normal either.

You mentioned pin 2 blinking rapidly. No idea what that could be or how to test but perhaps indicates the flat-to-round adapter is faulty or just that pin 2 is not used by the trailer? I think pin 2 is for fog light?

Not sure if this is getting any closer to a resolution but at least confirmation of the cut wire for pin 5 connection should be a priority.

Regards,
Scott

[Melbourne Park]

When I got mine, it was showing I think the blue, constant light ... but it did not seem to be calibrated, and the calibration mode did not seem to initiate.

I had just attached the trailer, and nothing seemed to work.

I made a few phone calls, but had no luck with support as it was a Saturday afternoon ... so I drove the D4 down the road with the trailer attached, about 100 metres ... and suddenly everything was working. I think it calibrated itself at that time ... and from then on, no worries. It works alright ...

[sniegy]

The Tow Pro can only be Calibrated with a trailer in tow.
Instructions tell clearly how to do this.

Cheers

[aus86inch]

G,Day All
wiring in my brake controller and things look a bit different in L/H cubby hole where splicing should happen. i checked sniegys posts and you mentioned there was a change to wiring in the thread for 2014 models. when you wired yours did the wires look like the attached pictures? i have no black wire being split to black and brown, only a brown wire with a black thing on it, this was under the insulation tape.
Andrew

[LRD414]

Andrew, it is the brown wire that splits into two (brown & black) inside the black glued cover and the two wires continue on to the trailer plug. I think I can make out the two wires exiting the cover in one of your photos. It is this continuing brown wire that needs to be cut and take the variable voltage wire from Tow Pro.

It's the same as LandyAndy posted, see this thread:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/213062-attn-sniegy-tbc-instal-update-required.html

Cheers,
Scott

[aus86inch]

Thanks Scott, will go back up shed and look at wires again will polish my glasses first so i might see it this time. thanks for the response, i tried to find the article you attached but i must have put the wrong wording in. i searched for posts by sniegy & got everything else but that one.

[strydes]

Yep, looks the same as my MY14 which I did half the job on last weekend. Black/brown coming out of the bottom of the heat-shrink section.

I didn't get as far as doing the splicing as I didn't have the cable yet, but did do the mounting of the unit and controller knob. Mounting the unit is one of the few items I couldn't find a lot of info on in this thread, so in case it might be of inspiration to anyone else, there's a few photos below on how I did it. I'm sure there are 100's of ways to skin this cat, but this worked for me and is rock solid.

The factory bracket (silver one) is the one that sits under the steering column and secured by the three bolts at the top. To get the very top one out, remove the headlight binnacle by sticking your hand up from underneath and pinching the two retainer clips. You can then get a socket with extension on there to spin it off. Bit fiddly but doable.

The two new holes drilled into the factory bracket are on the 'high' section with nylock nuts attaching to the black homemade bracket, and the three fixings riveted from black bracket to tow pro sit inside the recess of the 'low' section and past the bottom right corner such that they don't foul.

[aus86inch]

Job done but not working to well, with tail lights on i am getting power on pin 5 and 7
all ok when tail lights are off.
any ideas? Attached photo of splice, the black going into red is correct, no red wire to use.

[Nod]

Howdy Andrew,

I sent you a PM tonight. You need to cut the Brown wire away from the splice. The Brown wire then attaches to the Blue from your TowPro.

See the photos on the below link (search for "Splice" on page):
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/97935-d4-electric-trailer-brakes-4.html

From the factory, the splice joins Pin 5 & 7 together.

Regards,
Gordon

[aus86inch]

G,day Gordon
Got it now:D i have been overthinking the whole project, to much going round the head. Will go out now and snip the wire off. Am using a tablet at the moment have trouble with search and pm popping up.

thanks
andrew

[sniegy]

Andrew,
You have connected your blue wire to the wrong side of the brown wire.
It should be connected to the end that goes to the wiring harness at the rear of the vehicle.

Your picture speaks a thousand words. Well Done.

HTH
Cheers

[aus86inch]

YES YES YES YES
all good works as it should[biggrin][biggrin]

will enjoy my day at the series 1 get together tomorrow
and have a better trip to Melbourne on Monday to pick up caravan

Thanks again Gordon for pointing out my stupid mistake:oops2:

[Nod]

Andrew,

I should have clarified that from the factory:
Pin 5 is RH Tail
Pin 7 is LH Tail/Number Plate

... and why the wires are spliced together (at SJ571).

So we are re-tasking Pin 5 (in Oz) for Service Brakes. Pin 7 is then just Rear Lamps.

[mojo]

I'm getting a camper trailer soon hopefully, so I've been investigating electric brake controllers. I'm probably going to have a go at installing one into our defender myself, but for the D4 I decided to get it done professionally - I really don't want to stuff anything up. Anyway, after some shopping around, it seems that the going rate for a Redarc Tow Pro install is around $600 - $700, give or take. But I decided to check with the a dealer as well ... $1500! I mentioned that was more than double the price of everyone else, and was told that was dealer pricing because the job will be done properly. I was also warned that if someone else stuffed the install and fried the electrics it wouldn't be covered under warranty. Looking at Sniegy's instructiuons, it looks pretty simple, and almost impossible to stuff up. Not sure how the dealers justify the price difference, but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised ...

Cheers
Sean

[strydes]

If you've got some time, do it yourself.

I couldn't decide if I would bother doing myself or getting someone to do it just to 'be on the safe side'. Glad I did in the end, took a long time but was quite enjoyable and learnt a bit about the car.

I bought a kit from HS Motors off ebay which has towpro, cable, circuit breaker and ring terminals for $309. Grab a diode from jaycar and as long as you've got a soldering iron, heat shrink and crimp tool you're good to go.

I read through the thread multiple times to make sure I understood it and ended up copying all the good bits into a word doc so I could have it printed out with me as I did it. I've updated with a few lessons I learnt and attached if anyone else might find it useful.

[LRD414]

.... ended up copying all the good bits into a word doc so I could have it printed out with me as I did it. I've updated with a few lessons I learnt and attached if anyone else might find it useful.

There's one update regarding diode position that could be added to your excellent summary document. This update is captured in the D3 EBC thread so is easy to miss.

The diode needs to be upstream (CJB side) of the splice so that the TowPro manual override button illuminates the trailer brake lights. The sketch below is for D3 wire colour but the diode positioning is correct (just change green/purple to red for D4).

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/12/445.jpg

See also page 2 of the D3 thread at this link:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/51521-d3-electric-trailer-brake-wired-photo-2.html

I'd update the D4 wiring diagram on your last page but don't know how to revise a pdf file.

Regards,
Scott

[strydes]

Like this???

If that's the case I totally missed that in the instructions and will need to change my install.

[LRD414]

You've got the diode in right position but wrong direction for diode symbol. Change it so the "arrow" points in the "flow" direction. Cathode end with stripe towards EBC.

The only difference from your current install is that the trailer lights will not illuminate when you press the manual button, the TowPro will still work.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/lrd414-albums-general-picture5455-diode.jpg

Cheers,
Scott

[strydes]

Right, of course :angel:

Pic is updated and added to PDF and I've updated post above so nobody downloads that and gets it wrong, plus I've added your nice little pic and moved the diode install instructions section down to page 12 when doing the rear connection.

Hopefully no more errors but sing out if you spot anything.

[disco4now]

The black wire with the cct breaker should be be at least the same size as the wire you use for the blue . It will carry the approximately the same amount of current as the blue i.e. the full current supplied to the brake magnets.

Regards
Gerry

[josh.huber]

The black wire with the cct breaker should be be at least the same size as the wire you use for the blue . It will carry the approximately the same amount of current as the blue i.e. the full current supplied to the brake magnets.

Regards
Gerry

Spot on

it's always five o clock somewhere

[N0madical]

Hi
Firstly thanks for the fantastic forum - I wish I had come across this earlier. Still having problems with my D4 and Hayes Endeavour controller. It wires up the same (from what I can tell) as the Tekonsha and RedArc but am getting marginal braking unless the manual override is used. Can only think the auto elec might have used wiring that is too small for the current? Any ideas welcomed.

[disco4now]

Hi,
Not sure if you have looked at the manual or adjusted the sensitivity but it looks like by default you only get 10% power without deceleration and 50% under full deceleration.

If the brakes are OK with the manual slider then the wiring is probably OK.
The manual seems to be here, you may need to tweak the minimum power and the maximum power settings so its a bit more responsive.



Hayes Brake Controller - Hydraulic and Electric-Hydraulic Trailer Brake Controllers | Hayes (http://www.hayesbc.com/products/controllers/endeavor/)

Regards
Gerry

[ianmclean]

We have just traded our Disco3 on a new Disco4 and need to set everything up again for towing. I have found this thread to be very informative and grateful thanks to all of the contributors. While setting up the brake controller I also want to fit an anderson connector in place of the white trailer socket. Does anybody know how to get enough slack in the wiring for either socket to remove it without cutting the wires?
Cheers, Ian

[LRD414]

.... I also want to fit an anderson connector in place of the white trailer socket. Does anybody know how to get enough slack in the wiring for either socket to remove it without cutting the wires?
....

Ian, have a look at this recent thread and in particular, the 3rd last post by strydes

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/223901-12s-tow-electrics-white-plug-removal.html


Cheers,
Scott

[N0madical]

Hi,
Not sure if you have looked at the manual or adjusted the sensitivity but it looks like by default you only get 10% power without deceleration and 50% under full deceleration.

If the brakes are OK with the manual slider then the wiring is probably OK.
The manual seems to be here, you may need to tweak the minimum power and the maximum power settings so its a bit more responsive.



Hayes Brake Controller - Hydraulic and Electric-Hydraulic Trailer Brake Controllers | Hayes (http://www.hayesbc.com/products/controllers/endeavor/)

Regards
Gerry

Hi. Yep been through every bit of literature on offer. manual control still needs close to 85% to have strong braking and have set to that for now. with the same trailer and boat (3t) it needs only 50% max setting. A difference in the tow vehicle for sure.

Even has one side of the trailer jacked up and there was no noticble braking at all with foot on the brake at 20% minimum, needed to use manual override to get the brakes to act on a free spinning wheel.

[ianmclean]

Ian, have a look at this recent thread and in particular, the 3rd last post by strydes

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/223901-12s-tow-electrics-white-plug-removal.html


Cheers,
Scott
Thanks Scott, just the thing - I had not found that thread.
Cheers, Ian

[Silvo]

Hi all, pulled the light off the L/H/R of a HSE my16, and I can't find this split joint for the life of me..any tips? I can't take a photo because it's too dark

[LRD414]

Hi all, pulled the light off the L/H/R of a HSE my16, and I can't find this split joint for the life of me..any tips? I can't take a photo because it's too dark

Assuming you mean the split from single wire to separate black and brown wires within a heat shrink wrap, that's been in the LHR storage compartment for a few years. The earlier ones had it behind the LHR light.

Here's a photo from page 44 of this thread
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/d3-d4-rrs/95504d1435062384-d4-electric-trailer-brakes-trailer-loom-3.jpg


Hope that helps,
Scott

[Silvo]

Perfect!!! Thanks Scott.

[Nod]

Photos of my Redarc Tow Pro install (rear passenger side compartment). A little bit different to what others have done.... as I decided to put the controller down the back. Have a Mitch Hitch, so the space was available.

Only requires a +12V supply cable from the main battery (which I ran at the same time as installing a Traxide kit with Anderson plug). Mounted the circuit breaker to a rubber plug on the battery box. Picked up the earth from the same Earth stud as all the other trailer socket wiring.

The hardest bit was removing the 12V power socket in the console (without destroying both). A 5m CAT5 Ethernet cable between the controller and the remote head is perfect length (ran down the passenger side). Also installed a switch to enable some load resistors when connecting my van which has LED lights.

Put in a 6A diode to stop the back feed to the ECU. Originally used a 3A diode (as other had recommended) but it died after a period with my incandescent globed box trailer hitched. Did a bit of math and worked out it was pulling almost 4A. Had to buy a packet of 10... so if someone (well up to 9 persons) would like a 6A diode... send me a PM with your address... and I am happy to put one in the mail.

[josh.huber]

Photos of my Redarc Tow Pro install (rear passenger side compartment). A little bit different to what others have done.... as I decided to put the controller down the back. Have a Mitch Hitch, so the space was available.

Only requires a +12V supply cable from the main battery (which I ran at the same time as installing a Traxide kit with Anderson plug). Mounted the circuit breaker to a rubber plug on the battery box. Picked up the earth from the same Earth stud as all the other trailer socket wiring.

The hardest bit was removing the 12V power socket in the console (without destroying both). A 5m CAT5 Ethernet cable between the controller and the remote head is perfect length (ran down the passenger side). Also installed a switch to enable some load resistors when connecting my van which has LED lights.

Put in a 6A diode to stop the back feed to the ECU. Originally used a 3A diode (as other had recommended) but it died after a period with my incandescent globed box trailer hitched. Did a bit of math and worked out it was pulling almost 4A. Had to buy a packet of 10... so if someone (well up to 9 persons) would like a 6A diode... send me a PM with your address... and I am happy to put one in the mail.

Great work the switch is genius by the way

it's beer o clock

[Meken]

Those load resistors are going to get really hot - I'd be careful with the tow pro wires near them

[Nod]

The photo's do not show that there actually is ~8mm between the resistors and the Tow Pro cables. Been in place now for almost 6 months.... all good! Conducted a test with indicator running for 10 minutes... warm+... the heatsinking must be working well... not hot enough to melt anything.

[Graeme]

Also installed a switch to enable some load resistors
I find that these small rocker switches work well - hard to knock/break and only require a step drill for the hole.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/763.jpg
Jaycar SK0960

[Nod]

I would have loved to find a "pretty" DPST switch... however never found one.... lots of SPST though!

[SBD4]

I would have loved to find a "pretty" DPST switch... however never found one.... lots of SPST though!
how about these?
DC 24V 18mm Blue LED Light 22mm Mounted Thread 6 Pin Latching Push Button Switch | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-24V-18mm-Blue-LED-Light-22mm-Mounted-Thread-6-Pin-Latching-Push-Button-Switch/321896432408?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3Daabcdf51368641e4a9c ea11c59910a00%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26 sd%3D311429276238)
DC 12V 18mm Green LED Light 22mm Mounted Thread DPST Latching Push Button Switch (http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-12V-18mm-Green-LED-Light-22mm-Mounted-Thread-DPST-Latching-Push-Button-Switch-/311429276238)

[Graeme]

I would have loved to find a "pretty" DPST switch... however never found one.... lots of SPST though!
I didn't give the application a thought...

[josh.huber]

Hi guys,

I have just installed my TowPro. Very cheap too. Very happy although I did have to order a bag of clips off fleebay. Also very cheap wish i didnt mess round with them so much now i know how cheap they are.

The whole job took me way to long but very happy with install, I installed a switch for trailer blinkers as per NOD, (So now I have a LED module used twice for sale once I read the for sale section rules). I left my switch inside the rear panel until the kids are grown up.
While in there I mounted a relay and picked up a reverse supply to power my reverse cam and reverse spotlight, I also ran another wire from the relay into the 7 pin auxilary/reverse circuit for backing up my boat trailer.

I went a different option under the bonnet and made a stainless plate to mount to the traxide spare battery tray and mounted a marine 50amp CB for my front and rear andersons and also mount my accessorie 30amp cb and trailer brake 25amp cb.

For pretty switches Ashdowns do a few but i like the simple chrome toggle switch with a waterproof cover on it to make it al black and blend into interior.

[Discodougie]

My LR dealer told me not to connect to the stop lights in my 2012 D4 as resistance can be a problem, which I have found out twice. Connect to the brake switch. Also with the electric brakes fitted, this eliminates the need for any special adaptors if your trailer/caravan has LED lights. This was after buying a compatible $45 adaptor from Ford.

[josh.huber]

My LR dealer told me not to connect to the stop lights in my 2012 D4 as resistance can be a problem, which I have found out twice. Connect to the brake switch. Also with the electric brakes fitted, this eliminates the need for any special adaptors if your trailer/caravan has LED lights. This was after buying a compatible $45 adaptor from Ford.

Incorrect the car doesn't know you fitted electric brakes. Also the resistance won't be an issue as the brake controller is on the other side of the diode and has a very low current draw. Led tail lights are not measured through the car the draw is too low. Does the 45 buck adapter bring on the trailer icon on your dash when the blinkers are on. Sounds too cheap may just be a 7 pin large to 7 pin flat adapter at that price.

Everyone on here that has followed sneigys post is trouble free don't trust the dealer

[onesilop]

So I wired up my 2012 D4 with a tow pro incorrectly.
The lights come on the trailer, and indicators etc work perfectly.

It is just that the trailer brakes don't seem to come on as I brake, however they do come on if I put on the lights or parkers.

I connected the Blue tow prow wire to the brown Disco wire after the splice and then connected the red wire to the red wire that is in the same loom as the brown wire.

What have I connected incorrectly, I seem to have gone wrong even though I downloaded the very instructional PDF in this thread.

[LRD414]

So I wired up my 2012 D4 with a tow pro incorrectly.
The lights come on the trailer, and indicators etc work perfectly.

It is just that the trailer brakes don't seem to come on as I brake, however they do come on if I put on the lights or parkers.

I connected the Blue tow prow wire to the brown Disco wire after the splice and then connected the red wire to the red wire that is in the same loom as the brown wire.

What have I connected incorrectly, I seem to have gone wrong even though I downloaded the very instructional PDF in this thread.

Sounds like the brown wire has not been cut as shown in the wiring diagram on the last page of the pdf?

Scott

[onesilop]

Sounds like the brown wire has not been cut as shown in the wiring diagram on the last page of the pdf?

Scott


As I read through the thread again, I started to come the same conclusion.
I didn't cut it but rather spliced in as that is what I thought was called for. I will have to cut and retest. Thanks for the help I will report back when I get a chance to do just that.

[Nod]

Just to be clear... you cut the brown wire away from the black at the splice (SJ571) in the rear passenger side cubby?

The brown is then soley connected to the blue from the brake controller.
(Not causing this issue...) Did you insert the diode in the red... from the ECU? Before the wire from the brake controller & the Red to 12N socket Pin 6.

If the above is correct... with a multimeter check at the 12N socket (black) Pin 5 (service brakes) for +12V to ground (or Pin 3) when braking.

If this is correct... then there is a problem in the wiring between the 12N socket and the trailer/van. Is this an OEM unit?

[onesilop]

Just to be clear... you cut the brown wire away from the black at the splice (SJ571) in the rear passenger side cubby?



The brown is then soley connected to the blue from the brake controller.

(Not causing this issue...) Did you insert the diode in the red... from the ECU? Before the wire from the brake controller & the Red to 12N socket Pin 6.



If the above is correct... with a multimeter check at the 12N socket (black) Pin 5 (service brakes) for +12V to ground (or Pin 3) when braking.



If this is correct... then there is a problem in the wiring between the 12N socket and the trailer/van. Is this an OEM unit?


Thanks for the response, I didn't cut the brown wire. Before I go changing this all up I have another question I installed the diode as pictured.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/02/680.jpg

It is installed on the red wire befor I splice in the ebc but it is after the loom comes out of the light. Is this going to be an issue?

[strydes]

I can't say for sure on the diode from the picture as I can't really remember the loom that well any more, but to me it looks like you've put the diode after the splice. It needs to be before the splice, therefore is between the Central Junction Box and the splice, not between the splice and trailer loom pickup.

Regarding the brown - blue wire connection, it doesn't seem to be done correctly from your image. I've marked up the pic, if the feed is the black and red pair then your black (blue from EBC) cable need to connect to the cut off brown cable.

[onesilop]

So I cut the brown wire and the lights no longer trigger the trailer brakes. The issue I am now having is that the towpro doesn't seem to recognise the trailer. No lights come on the dial and when I try switch to manual nothing happens. Could this be because of the positioning of the diode?

The other thing is that the reverse sensors still come on and beep picking up the trailer. It is like the vehicle has no idea there is a trailer connected.

[Nod]

The D4 recognizing the trailer is independent of the the Tow Pro seeing it.

I'm assuming that your trailer has LED lights... so you need the load resistor(s) or incandescent globe attached to a blinker circuit for it to be seen by the D4... and then the reversing sensors will be turned off, setup for the trailer, etc.

I think that the Tow Pro sensors the trailer through load on the brake (blue) wire, and turns on the green (or blue) LED if calibrated or flashing if not. There is a technote on Redarcs website about some braking systems not being seen and you need to add a load resistor. My van has an iQ7 disc brake controller and I was worried that this would not be seen (before I got the new van)... but it is detected fine by the Tow Pro.

The diode needs to be inserted as per the circuit diagram above, but I do not think that this effects either of the above issues. If the diode is in the wrong way or mis-wired to the red wire... then the Tow Pro will not see the brakes being activated and do nothing... but the led should be on either way with a trailer connected.

Questions:
1) Are you using the original supplied cable between the Tow Pro unit and head? I used a 5m Cat 6 Ethernet cable ok.
2) Does the trailer have standard electric brakes?

Some fault finding suggestions to help work out what is wrong:
1) verify (with a meter) that the Tow Pro has supply +12VDC between the black and white wires.
2) the trailer brake lights work with a foot on the brake
3) the trailer brake lights work when the Tow Pro knob is pushed in

If all the above is ok... then either the trailer is not providing enough load to the Tow Pro to be sensed or there is a problem on the blue wire (which becomes D4 brown) through to pin 5.

[parriwi]

For what it is worth. I have read through most of the instructions and even had a go at trying to get my arm up somewhere close to where the wires go through the Firewall. I decided to ask ARB in Brookvale, Sydney what they would charge for the unit installed. I was pleasantly surprised that I could get the Tow Pro fully installed including auto restart circuit breaker for $640. Done!

They installed the remote to the left of the handbrake, They were not to keen to go through the light panel that was my first option but I think it will work fine there. I have noted comments that it might be a little more susceptible to damages, spills there but I shall see how it goes.

105703

[D4 Newbie]

I have been following this thread for a while and finally installed the tow pro elite TBC today.

The controller works as it should. Brakes on horse float activate when the brake pedal is pressed. The only issue I have is the brake lights light up on the trailer but not the fog or side lights when the head lights are on. Any suggestions why this could be? I am using a twelve pin flat plug

[catch-22]

Neat install...was it hard getting access to the panel where you installed the adjuster? And what did you bolt the control unit to?
Cheers

[D4 Newbie]

There is not much room on the light panel as it has a solid circuit board are back but it just fitted. The panel is little tricky to remove but worth it in the end.

The control module is fitted under the dash, it's hard to explain where it is. I will see if I can take a photo.

Just need to sort the park lights.

[D4 Newbie]

I found the problem and it is now fixed. Thanks to everyone who contributed on this thread as it made the job much easier.

[catch-22]

How did you get the light panel off?

[D4 Newbie]

It pops out. It has two clips at the top and two at the bottom. I found it tricky because I didn't want to scratch the panel. Also with your earlier question, the module is attached to the second skin behind the facia panel.

[SuperMono]

Finally got around to fitting my brake controller, as I need to use it next weekend....
After looking at various places that others had mounted the remote control I decided I wanted it up on the dash in clear view.
Not the easiest place to access, but not so bad once you get brave enough to start tearing the fascia apart.

Edit: FYI you need to modify the remote housing (I used a dremel like rotary tool) to get it come far enough through the fascia and open up some clearance in behind the trim as well.

[Plane Fixer]

Took more than 16 years to post:wasntme:
Look at the date, :angel:

[SuperMono]

It's a very, very early build D4.......

[Smocky]

OK have read this thread 3 times, printed off all the pages and ready to have a go. Just waiting for the Traxide kit from Tim so I can do all the work at the same time. Already have the Redarc Tow Pro Elite.

In short summary:
- Mounting EBC under the steering wheel
- Mounting remote head in the light binnacle on the right hand side
- Run two wires through the firewall to the battery and earth post, with a 30amp auto reset circuit breaker
- Run 2 wires from EBC down to the R/L/H compartment
- Connect cut brown wire after splice and connect to the blue wire from EBC
- Splice red wire from EBC in to red wire in loom
- Wire in diode BEFORE the splice in the red wire with current flowing to plug

easy peasy right? :o

Anyone live in Sydney, like beer and got nothing to do Saturday? LOL

Thanks for a very informative post guys, although it seems a little daunting removing panels and cutting wires in a brand new car, I feel pretty confident.

Jason.

[rhinosm]

You'll be right Jason.
I did both jobs at same time over a weekend.
I started with Traxide as it explains how to rung wires from front to back then added Tow Pro wires.
It can be a little fiddly in places but as you have mentioned, the information in posts and from Tim are great, it's a fantastic resource.
Take your time, measure twice cut once.
Good luck.
Vin

[Smocky]

LHS or RHS ??

Tim's instructions are to run the Traxide wiring down the right hand side in to the storage compartment. I intend to run the Tow Pro wiring at the same time, but do I need to cross over to the LHS to splice in to the wiring for the towbar 12N socket?

[rhinosm]

Correct.
I ran across with power cable to 12v outlet on LHS compartment.

[LRD414]

And if you got the D4-5S Traxide kit you will be running a wire across to LHS anyway, for connection to the LHS power socket, which is additional to the new Traxide RHS power socket. This step will be in the Traxide instructions if you have that kit but in any case it is easy, just remove the tailgate flap section and lift carpet to place wiring.

Scott

[Milton477]

My take on the location of the Red Arc brake controller.
The remote unit is double sided taped onto the cover & fits neatly into the opening in the dash when you clip it closed.
I also fettled the slots in the dash that the steel clips on the cover clip into so that the cover opens easier & without losing the clips.

What a fantastic brake controller! Works like a dream compared to the old Tekonsha in my D2.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=108065&stc=1&d=1460371815